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LastArgument
United States152 Posts
Hopeless1der, you sound like you're spouting off the approved "pro-town" response without actually giving it any thought. The facts of the situation are that mafia very likely know who is in each house, and town do not know. Therefore giving town information that mafia are likely in possession of already is going to be a net benefit. What's the actual counter-argument to this other than vague waffling? | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
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LastArgument
United States152 Posts
You specifically tried to create an example where knowledge gained benefits for the users of a power. In this scenario that you created, town benefits from this information. Yet somehow you state with confidence that there is zero benefit to releasing this information. Your confidence is unwarranted, and your stance not very carefully thought through. That is quite suspicious. | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
On October 17 2013 09:21 LastArgument wrote: You didn't answer my question, Mocsta. I presume you are referring to: On October 17 2013 08:57 LastArgument wrote: The game is a closed setup. Anything I think outside my role is WIFOM.I don't understand any of this reasoning. The only situation where mafia don't understand the exact player make-up of each house is when all the mafia are stacked in 1 or 2 houses. If they're in 3 houses they can obviously deduce the fourth. A mathematician will probably be able to tell you how likely it is that all mafia are in 2 or fewer houses, but I don't think the probability is very high. What information do you think mafia are being given by releasing the members of people's houses then? As I said before;
if town, the answer to both of the above should be no. So why give out mafia free information? Does this information help out town, more than it could help out mafia - I doubt it. Given that, why are you interjecting from Toad/Supersoft to divulge their reasoning? The sole basis of your argument is mathematics, when you, yourself have not provided any calculations other than your word stating it is "highly unlikely" which segues with the below. & The facts of the situation are that mafia very likely know who is in each house, and town do not know. Therefore giving town information that mafia are likely in possession of already is going to be a net benefit. You mention vague waffling; please explain why what you are espousing is the "Fact of the situation"What's the actual counter-argument to this other than vague waffling? Now that I answered your question. I will say again: On October 17 2013 09:18 Mocsta wrote: Out of everything in the thread thus far. Why is it that you are purely commenting on that item? Can you guarantee scum know who is what house? Heres a tidbit.. in GoT... a player took the exact same stance you did... that player flipped scum What is your opinion on the rest of the thread; for example, what do you make of I-Be-So-Pro interchanges with Supersoft. | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
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LastArgument
United States152 Posts
I will comment on what I see fit to comment on. | ||
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LastArgument
United States152 Posts
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
On October 17 2013 09:37 Hopeless1der wrote: I inadvertently provided a poor example, and you're right my example shows why it would be good for town to know. Good news: I changed my mind and think you're right. Giving the information out keeps those who want it from claiming blue. However I want to read the GoT endgame discussion and setup before I do anything rash. Considering you asked me to look into Skanjab deeper. Why have you shown zero concern for LastArgument doing the same? | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
On October 17 2013 09:45 Hopeless1der wrote: I got sidetracked with his questioning moclogic and I'm still on my phone. You claiming miller and skanj still being fresh in my mind made me ask you since you were around. Firstly, only Geript says moclogic; so I'm not sure why you are coining the phrase suddenly. Secondly, out of everything in the thread (including skanjab and my SAM claim) - now that it has been pointed out - are you not concerned that LastArgument still chooses to not comment? Lastly, what is your current read on LastArgument? | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
Town side of null. Small concern about refusal to comment, but I expect something soon from him. | ||
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supersoft
Germany3729 Posts
On October 17 2013 08:30 Mocsta wrote: Hi all, Firstly, I'm not sure why Supersoft/Toad want to release the house member distribution so eagerly? Could either of you please divulge some reasoning behind this play I know neither of them played GoT; but IIRC, the end-game discussion resulted in agreement between players/hosts that it was in towns best interest NOT to give out the house information. Though the setups are not identical, there are enough commonalities for me to conclude that the reasons in that game, pertain in this game. i.e. mafia are randomly distributed; and there is potential there is at least one house they have not corrupted. Why give this information to them for free --> especially when we don't know what type of roles they have etc. Meh yes. That only sounds like a good point. I admit, I didn't look at it that way. I only thought about what would be best for me to hunt scum. And I thouhgt that would be best for every other individual townmember, too. I didn't thought about it from the angle "what would be worst for scum". I agree that there is the possibilitie, that the scumteam has only members in 3 houses, and one of our QTs is a clear towncircle. I agree, that it's somehow not cool for the scumteam, when they have no information what's going on in there. But thats only one possibilitie and even if it's like that, what would 6 townies talk about in their group, when 1. they can't be sure, that no scum is around and 2. the thread is empty because most conversations take place in the QTs. + Show Spoiler + I only wanted to go to the toilet. I was already sleeping. Now I am awake again ._. | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
Two of the big differences between GoT and this is: #1 - that was 6 houses of 4 #2 - houses had a lord with KP power As already pointed out, the only way mafia do not know the house distribution is if mafia is confined to two houses. So yes, I can see the point of view that mafia perhaps have this information already. I still dont understand how it would help to scum hunt, in particular Day1? We still have the flexibility to lynch any of the 24 people in the game - regardless of house. Aside from LastArgument, citing "information equality" I don't see a benefit; especially given a closed setup. That's all I have to say on the matter. I am not pleased with how LastArgument has gone about his business; but that does not necessarily make him scummy. Guarantees he is a douche though. Gotta re-read. Ciao. | ||
yamato77
11589 Posts
On October 17 2013 07:01 raynpelikonoshi wrote: Skanjab1s "guis I am town because I don't know yet the compositions of each House' "guis I am town because I have no clue how many scums there are" who posted this? I wanna know | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On October 17 2013 07:19 raynpelikonoshi wrote: rayn will sign his posts. Also we will be a beacon of towniness. Don't worry about us. nvm it's the bad head of the hydra | ||
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Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On October 17 2013 08:30 Mocsta wrote: Hi all, Firstly, I'm not sure why Supersoft/Toad want to release the house member distribution so eagerly? Could either of you please divulge some reasoning behind this play I know neither of them played GoT; but IIRC, the end-game discussion resulted in agreement between players/hosts that it was in towns best interest NOT to give out the house information. Though the setups are not identical, there are enough commonalities for me to conclude that the reasons in that game, pertain in this game. i.e. mafia are randomly distributed; and there is potential there is at least one house they have not corrupted. Why give this information to them for free --> especially when we don't know what type of roles they have etc. Secondly, Raynkonoshi, can you please confirm that because no posts have been signed by Rayn; you are responsible for every post made by your hydra so far? Thirdly, I have no opinion on the skanjab stuff so far. I'm acknowledging it occured because obvious thats the biggest matter going on in the thread so far; but I need to re-read it all again before stating an opinion. Lastly, I'm not sure if this is right play to do in a themed closed game. But in a normal I believe you are meant to do this. I am a self-aware miller. After my doctor fake-claims as town last game, I can understand those that refuse to believe this. So if this ends up in my lynch, so be it. zzzzzzzzzz Moc your opening posts always reek of scum | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On October 17 2013 10:38 Mattchew wrote: yo yam, does that mean your thinking what im thinking that if it was Rayn I would lynch him on the spot? | ||
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Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
On October 17 2013 10:38 yamato77 wrote: that if it was Rayn I would lynch him on the spot? hellz yeah. what do you think about the houses and who's in each.. im really tempted to just list all my housemates cause i think theres nothing to be gained from a town perspective in keeping them secret | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On October 17 2013 08:57 LastArgument wrote: I don't understand any of this reasoning. The only situation where mafia don't understand the exact player make-up of each house is when all the mafia are stacked in 1 or 2 houses. If they're in 3 houses they can obviously deduce the fourth. A mathematician will probably be able to tell you how likely it is that all mafia are in 2 or fewer houses, but I don't think the probability is very high. What information do you think mafia are being given by releasing the members of people's houses then? this is true, but town in GoT were the idiots who came up with the secrecy idea in the first place, so this doesn't mean Moc is mafia unless he's playing intentionally stupid | ||
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