EPTIf it gets going over/after the weekend, I can step up.
Thug Life Mini Mafia
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
If it gets going over/after the weekend, I can step up. | ||
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austinmcc
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austinmcc
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On October 01 2013 10:52 WaveofShadow wrote: Will you chat with me?I thought that was VE. Never mind. I don't want to talk to you. | ||
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I don't like FT for scum. He first got scrutinized for his early posts: On September 27 2013 15:35 FirmTofu wrote: Okay, so my best scum read right now is ShiaoPi. He's been around, but hasn't contributed. His filter is all one liners with basically no substance. Now, I know ShiaoPi is a lot better than how he's playing right now. I want to know why he is playing below is full potential. Filter: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=429897&user=ShiaoPi RNG debate. Statistically, it is a great idea to randomly choose a day one lynch. There are 6 scum between us. 6/20= .3 I don't think the best scumhunters among us can lynch with greater accuracy on Day 1 than 30%. However, I also don't think there is any method by which we can decide a fair way to choose a random kill. We would need an unbiased party to use random.org or something. We don't have any confirmed town, so discussing this topic is pointless. Lynching randomly is impractical and unfeasible. Stop wasting time discussing this pointless topic. On September 27 2013 15:37 FirmTofu wrote: ##Vote: ShiaoPi ...and I'm off to bed! On September 27 2013 15:38 FirmTofu wrote: We've already discussed you quite enough. There are at least 5 other scummers out there. I'm interested in discussing as many people as possible. I'll discuss you if you end up being the #1 or #2 candidate later in the day. On September 27 2013 15:41 FirmTofu wrote: Thread wasn't hopping at the point FT dropped these. If FT is scum, he wanted to get active, post something legitimate, and dropped...that set of posts? No. He has no reason to do that as scum - he doesn't need to finger SP, he doesn't need to tell Grack he's not gonna talk about Grack. He doesn't need to take a hard stance and say eff you guys I'm sleeping.You can, and you will. I'm going to actually go to bed now. ^_^ If FT is scum, I don't think he makes 1/3 of a case on SP, drops a vote on SP, tells grack he's not chatting, and goes to bed. It's messy, it's not crafted, it's very confident that he can tell Grack to shove off. In an odd way, I viewed the lack of explanation that other people are jumping on as scummy but not anti-town? Like...yes, scum may like dropping votes for no/bad reasons. But townies do it to. And the timing and circumstances of FT's posts here and vote don't strike me as scummy, because scum doesn't have a reason to do this --> add a new candidate, not push that guy, dip from thread (barring scumbuddy being heavily scrutinized at the time, but then I'd expect a real push from FT onto someone else). One of the reasons I liked Koshi for scum was his quick defense of FT on slightly shaky grounds, that FT was a townie trying to make a "splash" - On September 27 2013 21:09 Koshi wrote: A lot of my D1 notes are just in relation to FT, who attacked him/defended him for what (except not the last chunk of D1, tl;dr). That defense was slightly wonky, in that I didn't think it was much of a splash, and ... there's not much of an explanation here. He doesn't explain the splash, doesn't say WHY he doesn't find the "splash" scummy.I don't think it is stupid at all. FT also says he will make a case if Grack leads in votes. I am not a fan of people playin this game 1 hour a day but FT made a splash and I dont find that splash scummy. | ||
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austinmcc
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On October 01 2013 11:12 WaveofShadow wrote: Nope. Hai austin! You scum? Can we play now? | ||
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On September 28 2013 18:01 Chairman Ray wrote: Oh, only 11 hours left. I definitely won't be here tomorrow for endgame, so I'm gonna stay up late tonight to try to catch up. I've lightly skimmed through posts so far, and I take it that Koshi is winning votes because of RNG? Filtering through his posts, it's pretty clear that he's aggravated by this decision by town. I'm gonna put myself in his shoes for a sec. If I was town, and everyone was gonna RNG lynch me, then I would just be like wtf... I definitely wouldn't be angry since it's not due to my own lack of skill or other people's misreads, but sheer luck instead. Once I flip town, then the townies will just feel really stupid for doing it and I'd be okay with that. Now what if I was in Koshi's shoes and I was mafia? I would probably be a bit aggravated to push town off me, and if I flip red, then people will probably celebrate at my expense. But the thing is that I am not Koshi, so I don't share his feelings or thought process, so this read might be off. To people that have played with Koshi before, would you expect this kind of behavior from town or mafia Koshi? I definitely think that by his behavior, he is more likely mafia. Another thing that's consistent with Koshi being mafia is that there are others trying to save him. If Koshi were town, then it could be possible that there is no effort to save him, light effort to save him, or heavy effort to save him. Anything is possible. If Koshi were mafia, I would bet that his mafia buddies wouldn't give up on him so easily, especially on D1. Since the RNG thing is so stupid, then his mafia buddies could easily make a case for it and not seem scummy in the process. So if Koshi were mafia, I would bet that there is some heavy effort to save him. Right now, we do see some heavy effort, in the form of the yamato train. Although this could happen if Koshi was either town or mafia, I suspect it is more likely if he were mafia. Because of these reasons, I think there's a good chance that Koshi is actually scum, and we got really lucky with the RNG. Just for now ##Vote: Koshi I will be up for a bit more reading through posts. I would like to think about it a bit more before leaving for the night with a read that came from RNG. After your response, I'll either keep pestering you or you can ask me some questions or do whatever you want to me so long as it doesn't end in me bleeding to death from any natural or unnaturally-WoS-created orifice. | ||
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austinmcc
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On September 28 2013 03:38 FirmTofu wrote: Anyone who supports RNG, myself included, should still scumhunt and make full use of the day. There is still much to say and much to find. Anyone who stops scumhunting should be subject to lynch as well. I find that super easy lynchbait. It's true, and mafia can very well say it but only to get townie points, i.e., it's a townie thing to say. He hasn't followed through, but I think that's not enough to vote him for, and I think it's a quick and dirty point to make in order to push a mislynch a little. | ||
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On October 01 2013 11:28 WaveofShadow wrote: CR post is a problem. Last game was my first exposure to him and it screamed newbie town to me. Problem is I feel even though he is pretty newbie, he is also well aware of the status he's given himself---it's only a matter of time before he learns to manipulate that as scum. Until he does more I really can't be sure. I'd still lean town on him overall just because that sort of thing is kinda difficult to fake this early in a career I feel. Austin let me do your post! I dunno which post, but do away. This is supposed to be a little back and forth here. | ||
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On October 01 2013 11:53 WaveofShadow wrote: Koshi Koshi Bo BoshiNo can do. Surprise crying fit. Post what you gotta and I'll read it when I can. First third of http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=429897&user=Koshi&view=all is one-liners, small questions, him playing with Grackaroni. He's rarely, if ever, engaging anyone else in the thread (occasionally mentioning you, but with regards to not wanting to see you fail or whatever, not with regard to any substantive read or chatting with you). 1/3 or 1/4 is that. But that 1/3 or 1/4 is important to me, because it represents Koshi playing the game BEFORE he became a RNG lynch. BH makes his post, Koshi pops up. He has some mild interactions with the thread, disliking a case on rayn because rayn had been relatively vocal in talking about others. On September 28 2013 08:23 Koshi wrote: I looked at this, and hated this post.Scumreads before I sleep and just maybe I can stop the retrdness. But prolly wont. BH: Hopefully scum with grack or so. But this rng shit and how he handled it raped me in the ass. Also a smart play as scum actually 16/19 not in your team and you shit up the thread because the baddies keep mentioning it. Evetything else he does doesnt matter anymore. Yamato: looks like his scumgames. Cases are good. Grack: total scum. Going to get away with it. Who cares. FT: looks policy lynch if yiu look at his previous games. But analysis on his posts points out he actually can be scum playing like. Dont.think what he did was not something FT as town couldnt.do but w.e. Rest of the kids I dont care about yet. Also note I never had a strong scumread on WoS i just said that the town whining posts were good post if they came from scum. Like BH his rng lynch. 0123 am ffs BH is scum because RNG says vote Koshi. He has no ACTUAL reason to call BH scum here. There are good cases on Yamato. Grack is scum, but Koshi has been on grack all game with some justifications behind his scumread, so that one's substantiated in prior posts. FT ... that FT read is nothing. Other people point out he might be scum, but that gobbledegook doesn't actually give me a clear idea of what Koshi thinks about FT. I hate that post because it's mushy and easy. Yamato and FT are being discussed. He's been on Grack all game. BH made his RNG post. Koshi has 1000000% not spoken up on a number of people, isn't making reads or presenting any information on a number of people, and is, at least based on his posts, kind of worried about being RNG lynched. But instead of really hunting, really poking around, he makes what feels like a very easy set of reads, 2 people that are being discussed as scum, the guy he keeps saying is scum, and BH. I dunno, most of it stems from watching his posts hard after his initial FT post about FT making a "splash". He was someone I was paying particular attention to, and his entire D1 from the RNG point out is just him halfway worrying about being RNG-lynched, but nothing much else. Every post is still really short. Every post remains focused on this small group of players. He seems legitimately worried about being lynched, but not at looking outside the easy options for scum. Moreover, I remember a number of people dropping little koshi suspicions --> koshi normally posts more/better/more substantively. I remember SP making this post, believe there were 2-3 others. On September 28 2013 02:57 ShiaoPi wrote: koshi is not that rapid fire style townie I would expect from him. Also I really do not agree with the reasoning he offered when I asked him about the Grack read Throughout the whole day, apart from early banter with grack and calling grack scum, Koshi just doesn't DO anything of substance. He thinks he might get lynched, and his focus is on calling out easy alternatives, rather than really trying to build a case on someone hard-to-lynch (BH out of his choices) or someone who isn't being scrutinized/talked abotu already. I'm going to stop rambling now. If there's a single post that struck me as scummy, it's the "splash" post about FT. It's moreso just about a lack of engagement with the game as a whole, posting a bunch while not really doing anything, and when he's supposedly super worried about getting lynched, never really doing much other than complaining that he might get lynched and talking about how everyone who finds him townie is town and everyone who finds him scummy is scum. It's mostly thoughts, rather than a case, but WoS especially and whoever else is more than welcome to talk through some of this. | ||
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austinmcc
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On October 01 2013 12:07 strongandbig wrote: If you mean this guy - + Show Spoiler +Austin what do you think about my palmar case (and grack's case which is extra evidence for my case) Also I get that you don't think ft is scum but what about shiaopi? He's currently the second realistic lynch option. On September 28 2013 04:19 strongandbig wrote: i dont like this post. rayn clearly indicated that palmar making sense was not alignment indicative. but palmar is trying to twist/recast that reasoning into rayn having had a townread on him. either intentional, in which case scummy, or unintentional, in which case this really doesn't fit with the brooks-no-nonsense-or-illogicalness palmar we know and love. then there's another thing. Palmar is voting for yamato right now, but he's made cases for why at least two other people (grack and hiro) are actively scummy. (his "pattern finding"). whereas he's said pretty much nothing about yamato. what's the point of putting emphasis on pattern finding if you're not going to actually use it to kill scum. Also, I think one thing scum players love to do is give advice and not follow it: And the last thing: Who else thinks it's weird that palmar posted this, then didn't say anything in terms of analysis of what came out of it? Like, someone even asked him to say something about vayne based on it, and he didn't mention it at all. My impression of palmar from his opening shenanigans in other games is that he likes to get something from them. When he proposes a random lynch or other stupid policy, he has a very specific set of goals in mind as town for information he wants to get from the shenanigans and peoples' reactions to them. This game, I don't see that. Yes, I do think palmar is cocky enough to claim scum as scum. So I guess...I don't love the case. Spoilered is a thought about RNG/Palmar but RNG got so much discussion yesterday that I don't think it needs to pop back up today and it's a better thing to maybe discuss postgame + Show Spoiler + RNG nice because it forces people to take stances on that issue, generates discussion on that issue, and if you ever actually choose someone you get to look at the votes and see who follows, who follows blindly, who fights it, etc. In this game, we have 6 scum, 6/19 odds, good odds, as people pointed out. BUT BUT BUT BUT BUT Each scum team have 16/19 odds that it doesn't hit THEM. That's...better than a normal game. Normal balance isn't 3 scum 16 town. So as far as town is concerned, it's good odds to hit scum. As far as scum are concerned, it's good odds NOT TO HIT THEIR OWN TEAM. Each faction views the math differently, because town cares about hitting any scum but scum really only cares about hitting THEIR scum. I was actually writing down every time someone mentioned RNG lynching at a certain point, because I could really see scum going for an RNG lynch given that it was so unlikely to hit THEIR teammates. And Palmar, who has spoken on why he sometimes proposes RNG lynches and appears to not just say "RNG LYNCH = COOL LET'S DO ONE" never pointed this out, and it just felt in my head like something that town Palmar would say, "Hey guys, because we have 2 scum teams, scum may be more down with RNG than normal, and we can't get the same sort of information out of votes because scum may be down with lynching an RNG-ed scum if they're on opposite teams." It'll mostly be a hindsight thing and if Palmar flips scum I'll feel all smug, but I think it's dumb to really say "I had this thought about RNG lynch in this game and Palmar does RNG stuff sometimes and he didn't speak up on the same thought so he's gotta be hiding it and he's scum." So...overall, whatever, Palmar not scum to me atm based on that or your case. | ||
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austinmcc
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On October 01 2013 12:07 strongandbig wrote: SP I didn't get much from D1, I got nothing in read-through notes on him and just remembered he was one of the folks making a Koshi comment.Austin what do you think about my palmar case (and grack's case which is extra evidence for my case) Also I get that you don't think ft is scum but what about shiaopi? He's currently the second realistic lynch option. As far as him being a lynch option today...will read through in the EST morning and respond more fully. I find myself almost never wanting to lynch ShiaoPi because his schedule is never synched with the thread's and it always feels like he's pushable as a mislynch in games he rolls town. Just...very very wary of any push to lynch ShiaoPi. Strongandbig : Drazerk :: austinmcc : ShiaoPi | ||
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On October 01 2013 12:35 Grackaroni wrote: I don't do anything with that. At this point I don't think we can go "there's probably an active player that is scum, therefore we'll lynch the likeliest of the active players to be scum." You're making weird assumptions if you want to vote Palmar because there are PROBABLY active scum/an active scum. Especially D2, I'm not voting based on that and I don't think it's worth much.What do you think about what I said on Palmar, he's the only active player I see right now with a good case for being scum. Maybe Rayn but he just doesn't care this game and I have no idea what that means for him. If it's not Palmar it's probably going to be one of the lurkers lynched. rayn's filter doesn't make me warm and fuzzy, but doesn't trip anything super major. I got paranoid that he was focused on how people can't make townreads given that there are two scum teams, but he didn't post about that as much as I remembered. | ||
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On October 01 2013 12:51 Grackaroni wrote: I'll read the tail end of Palmar's D1 more closely, but so long as he was still vocal about being down with a Yamato lynch while making some of the statements you pull out, I'm okay with him not jumping harder on other folks.No I mean what I wrote about Palmar on page 7 of my filter. Palmar being the most likely active player to be scum is just my opinion, not why I think he is scum. You may think he's scummy for not having a balls-out D1 where you think he's super townie and super scumhunter man, but I don't THINK I recall scum Palmar posting a wishy washy crap. From what I remember of scum Palmar, he does the same thing as normal - picks a target, tunnels target, tries to push lynch on target. So I read those posts on Hiro and FT as being actual thoughts, but not scum flags because (a) I don't think it fits what I've seen from scumPalmar and (b) scumPalmar knows better than to post wishy washy reads. So, overall, I guess just not terribly scummy on Palmar. | ||
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On October 01 2013 13:04 Grackaroni wrote: Kk. I'll add that to looking at SP tomorrow morning, but...have you played with scum Palmar and did he play at all similarly? If not, then I don't believe him not being vocal and not pushing a particular read are as good of indicators of scum Palmar as you're making them out to be.He wasn't vocal about anyone at the end of day1. He popped in near the end to say that RoL/FT/Hiro were good lynches, then I said something about how if he wanted one of those people to be lynched in the last 2 hours he would have chosen one and written a case and pushed him hard and then he made another post saying that those 3 + (Yamato/koshi) the two vote leaders were all fine lynches. | ||
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austinmcc
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The above posts in response to grack indicate that I don't think grack's reasons for finding Palmar scummy are great reasons to find Palmar scummy. They are not intended to be taken as me saying Palmar super townie, only that I don't think those particular points should be used to push Palmar as scum. | ||
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On October 01 2013 13:12 Grackaroni wrote: I find this post/exchange super townie. Following up, questioning me, and then actually being able to back up your thoughts.Scum Palmar just generally cares less about the game because he most enjoys analyzing. that's about as far as I will meta him. I played one game with him when he was scum and he called me scum from my first sentence and popped in to push me for a couple cycles. Another game where he was smurfing scum where he made this bad constructed post and lurked and got called out as the best lynch by foolishness day1. The game or games that I remember with scumPalmar mainly just involved him calling people scum, then calling marvel scum, and then him and marvel getting into a shitfight. So maybe I've just got a different experience here. I dunno what the symbol for opposite-y is, but looks like the point got across correctly. Meant to indicate that you always want to kill Drazerk, but I never want to kill ShiaoPi. | ||
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austinmcc
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Instead, I propose we chat about some of the following:
Specifically:
rayn, any thoughts? Palmar, I guess you too. Especially concerning the Pandain bit. | ||
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His role so much unlike anything that appears in this game that I don't think you can draw any conclusions between there and here. He can't sit back and win by doing nothing as either alignment here, he doesn't resurrect, he doesn't have wave in a mason chat, etc. etc. etc. | ||
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austinmcc
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On October 02 2013 02:20 raynpelikoneet wrote: I am with oats on this in that your explanation doesn't do it for me. I already explained it. Read Oats ffs. People who are top 2 lynch candidates for the day and being presented as such know they're lynch candidates. It IS a fact, regardless of guilt or no. As a curiosity, have you ever been lynched as town? | ||
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austinmcc
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Happy with Koshi, Solstice, probably CR, possibly Pandain. ##vote: s0Lstice Hiro, could you share some thoughts on people who aren't FT and ShiaoPi? Maybe take a look at rayn/palmar arguing, a peek at CR, and whatchoo thinkin' bout solstice? | ||
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austinmcc
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On October 02 2013 03:30 raynpelikoneet wrote: That's like yes!Now wtf is this... That's like, no... austin? You may find solstice's recent posting townie, but I don't really. I read back into this game, I skipped pages, I can get down with him having missed some stuff. But I'd expect him to share the same guilt that I have over having skipped some stuff, be wanting to make up for that, and be getting into somewhat of a normal groove. Didn't love his posts on return. Still fine with koshi. CR may have been lynchbait in past games, but...that's more a trial by fire thing and I'm not going to buy into "says scummy stuff therefore town." From anyone, really. I waffled over adding Hiro Protagonist to that list, realized all the waffling is because his posts have been somewhat narrow in focus and I'd like to see some/all of those things addressed in order to figure him out. | ||
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On October 02 2013 03:37 raynpelikoneet wrote: I disagree and...because they're my reads? Yeah but Koshi and CR are like totally town and not in danger of getting lynched today. Why even bring that up? On October 02 2013 03:53 strongandbig wrote: I don't think so and I feel shitty about it. Can discuss postgame.Austin are you really planning on going allin on a last-hour-before-deadline switch to solstice? You're gonna have to persuade me that none of ft, shiaopi, or va are scum, and I'm currently of the opinion that at least one of them and probably two is/are. Like, if you're serious this is gonna take an effort. Or are you just trying to about taking a stance. You've said why you don't think ft is scum but you're gonna need to give us more than "I usually think shiaopi is town" and "no comment on va" before you can just abstain out of this lynch. I've said my piece on FT. ShiaoPi is, again, someone that I just don't like lynching early. I know that's not optimal. I don't read him as scummy as others, some of that is connected to his view over the early koshi/FT bit. If you think FT is townie and koshi is scummy, then ShiaoPi's not liking FT as a lynch candidate and liking koshi as a lynch candidate early look good to you. Beyond that, the VE segue is odd. If ShiaoPi is scum, he's in danger of getting lynched. I don't think he gets points for not voting FT to try and save himself, but look at his choice of targets for alternatives --> VE and cheesecake. He appears to have actively looked at VE, and although it's no secret VE hasn't done much today, the way he goes about NOT attacking VE is odd if he's scum being lynched. He gives a read on a guy, over multiple posts, gives his reasoning for thinking VE scum --> not scum, and it's a weird reason (comparing VE's filter in a medium size normaly game to a large game where VE was a resurrecting linked 3P survivor mason). If he's scum, I would expect that if he doesn't go after FT, he goes after someone else that really seems like a possibility. Not going after VE and then finding VE townie. Him mentioning that reads like a legitimate look at someone from a townie point of view, even if, and ESPECIALLY if, I don't understand why you compare to a 3P survivor game. If ShiaoPi had STARTED responding to pressure on him with something like this: On October 02 2013 00:34 ShiaoPi wrote: Looking at a guy who's been tossed around a little, guy with some suspicion and a vote (i think just 1 vote on VA?), and a guy who replaced in and has been somewhat absent, then I wouldn't feel as townie on ShiaoPi as the "I thought VE was scum but now I think he's town and by the way guys THIS is the read I'm choosing to present as you want to lynch me" leads me to feel.I really don't get what you are having in your mind with the word tunneling. What I did was far from tunneling. also he is not a townread of mine, just waiting to see what he brings to the table next couple of cycles ( if he survives that is) I admit that I am fairly useless currently, but with VE taken off my list for now, the read I wanted to push today is gone. Currently I am looking into Mr.CC, VA, solstice, which takes some time man Scum don't have to do x or y when pressured, but that response does not feel like one from scum. He's not pushing hard to save his hide, he's not lurking hard, and he's almost not even providing an alternative. It's a read on a dude who wasn't getting lynched and who SP isn't TRYING to get lynched. Just a legitimate read, and a townie one at that, based on odd reasoning. Not the scummy kind, more the "I don't understand what you're doing but it seems to make sense to you" sort of odd. | ||
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On October 02 2013 04:00 FirmTofu wrote: They're slightly different. You're town because I didn't think the posts people are jumping on are mafia posts. They are...scummy but not anti-town? Scummy but without agenda? Not following own recommendations and not explaining reads fully are scummy things, or things that aren't HELPFUL to town, but in this case it doesn't feel to me like you're actively trying to harm town/push an agenda. More just you're posting and some of your posts look blech.I would just like to point out that austin used the same logic that ShiaoPi used to conclude I was town. Austin said something along the lines that ShiaoPi was town because he is usually lynchbait. Austin, can you explain why you hold this stance and why you think it is acceptable to play this way? ShiaoPi isn't town cuz he's usually lynchbait. I don't want to lynch him cuz he's usually lynchbait. That's regardless of a read on him, which was what I was telling snb. snb wants to kill Drazerk whether Drazerk is town/scum/3P/hosting. I find myself never wanting to kill ShiaoPi whether he looks townie/scummy/whatever. In this game though, based on his posting today, I actually DO find him townie. Your townread from me is posting related. ShiaoPi being lynchbait isn't a read, it's just me never wanting to lynch him. Different thangs. I think it's plenty acceptable to get a read on you based on your posts. I DON'T think it's optimal to play the way I do concerning ShiaoPi, but tough. Last time people thought ShiaoPi was scummy and I wasn't really sure he WAS scummy and we(town) won anyway, so, at worst, maybe he's scum and gets lynched or whatever. On October 02 2013 04:19 s0Lstice wrote: I haven't been going "woe is me so sry gaiz catching up." Don't expect you to. @austin: tell me how I express guilt, specifically as it retains to an internet forum. you must know as it's important to your read on me. ##vote hiro protagonist But I don't like not having pull in the thread and being able to seriously affect the lynch, and it caused me to post a bunch last night and really try to get moving. I know you dropped in and gave some reads, but I just didn't quite get the same sense off you. | ||
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On October 02 2013 04:37 FirmTofu wrote: ShiaoPi's D1 comments on you are pure "FT is lynchbait." Not really substantiated in the same way, so can't tell the logic there.Thanks for the clarification, Austin. Do you think that ShiaoPi is using similar logic to categorize me as town or is there some malevolent intention behind ShiaoPi refusing to vote me? I don't really know what he's working off of, tbh, he doesn't detail WHY you're lynchbait, and seems to just stick to that stance throughout, either saying you are or trying to push people off of you purely by trying to present other folks as scum, without really pushing you as a townie person. | ||
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If I need to consolidate, that's a later thing. On October 02 2013 03:53 strongandbig wrote: Looked back at VA. , because I DID give no comment on him.Austin are you really planning on going allin on a last-hour-before-deadline switch to solstice? You're gonna have to persuade me that none of ft, shiaopi, or va are scum, and I'm currently of the opinion that at least one of them and probably two is/are. Like, if you're serious this is gonna take an effort. Or are you just trying to about taking a stance. You've said why you don't think ft is scum but you're gonna need to give us more than "I usually think shiaopi is town" and "no comment on va" before you can just abstain out of this lynch. On September 30 2013 07:37 VayneAuthority wrote: So I have no idea why anyone shot BH or what this means. The only people that trusted him even remotely were pandain, grack, and palmar. Everybody else tried to throw suspicion on him or said he was scummy. He died though so we know it wasn't a cop kill. Sooo wtf is going on here. Palmar/Pandain probably come off looking the worst from this since palmar gave him a town read and visa versa and pandain is trying to lynch FT through his dead body. Grack has some sort of boner for BH where he looks up to him so that is a potential fear kill. No need to reply to this post, I won't read it Disliked this post. I know we tend to undervalue the reads of early dead dudes, but this is too much. He died, therefore these guys look bad and this guy maybe looks bad, based on a single day of work. I don't love looking at it from "who looks bad with BH dead" instead of "what were BH's scum reads", and for someone who's trying to contribute little and observe much, I don't love this as being a jumping-in point? It's not much of a contribution, is highly speculative. His exchange with HP also reads a little bit like butt. Calls HP scummier than before for responding to someone accusing HP of being scum because of only talking about one scumteam. Gotta have "inherent guilt" in order to address the alleged scumslip. However, then he turns straight around and doesn't know how to read it: On September 30 2013 10:21 VayneAuthority wrote: Actually there is a fairly large difference, addressing a good/strong argument is a necessity. defending yourself against a "scumslip" at a time when everybody was just bullshitting is inherent guilt. I don't know what to make of it though since as far as I can tell he is a very passive/apologetic player. On September 30 2013 10:24 VayneAuthority wrote: I'm backtracking though since for him as a player it doesn't necessarily say anything. Which...maybe true, maybe not. But what I actually don't like the most about that exchange is that smack in the middle of those posts, CC posts a big thing on HP - + Show Spoiler + On September 30 2013 10:22 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: I'm townreading CR for this post: Chairman Ray has been the victim of D1 mislynches in his first two games. If he's mafia this game, I'd believe that he'd be even more cautious of the noose. I don't know of many players who, on their first scum game, would make a joke like this. This is a joke post that is null if a player like myself posted it, but for a noob like CR I'm leaning townie. Bit worried about HiroProtagonist (consider me the HiroAntagonist LELELEL) Opening post pretty weak. He'd like to hear more from some lurky dudes (duh) and tells people to keep doing things that they are currently doing, but fails to mention a read on any of the 3 bottom guys. He keeps telling people what to do, but fails really to do anything himself. Posts like these are easy to make as mafia. They tell people to go off and post more, give reads, pull their own weight, etc. However, in the entirety of these posts and before HiroProtagonist goes to bed, he has accomplished essentially nothing except extrapolate on his Palmar null read. It looks like he's actively doing things, but doesn't seem to be doing much of anything. He hasn't given reads but tells other people to give reads. The rest of his filter for the day sheeps the Yamato scumread. He literally quoted Pandain's case and said "I think exactly what Pandain thinks here" without any prior indication that he believed Yamato was mafia. By reading HiroProtagonist's filter before this, I would believe that he thinks WoS is mafia because he "called out his bullshit". Not seeing much town from HP. ___________________________________________________________________________________________________ Note: The Koshi to Yamato switch was awfully weird considering it landed on town. Granted, I liked the target so I can't complain much. Random lynch just seemed so epiccccccc ShaioPi is a fantastic night shot tomorrow. If you're mafia not on ShaioPi's team shoot him plz you gotta kill the other team sometime eh? Or cops gogo. I'm not sure if FT is bad or scum. following his own heuristic he should be lynched. You couldn't give me a klondike bar to read Rayn. Rereading WoS/Palmar/SnB. I'm just going to decide VE is town in my brain and not read into him that much unless he decides to transform into ScumeraEyes. Willing to lynch VA over SP and FT, would still go for other targets more though. | ||
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On October 02 2013 05:18 hiro protagonist wrote: While you do that, cough coughIve only skimed though the last part of thread so far. you havent been on my radar. let me catch up and Ill give my opinion on you. On October 02 2013 03:29 austinmcc wrote: Hiro, could you share some thoughts on people who aren't FT and ShiaoPi? Maybe take a look at rayn/palmar arguing, a peek at CR, and whatchoo thinkin' bout solstice? | ||
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On October 02 2013 05:37 WaveofShadow wrote: Can you phrase your request as if it were a request for a hot dog in one of the aforementioned scenarios?Alright ladies and gents, you guys can decide: Which Wave would you like? The one that rages fucking hardcore at you all for specifically doing exactly what I told you not to? Or the one that gives up entirely because time and time again towns just fail over and over and no matter what I say and do? You can have a few hours to mull it over. Be back later. Congrats on the lynch! | ||
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On October 02 2013 09:13 WaveofShadow wrote: Scum FT knows he'll flip scum and nobody will care WHAT he said. And every time I look back at this thread I realize something else that's just so ridiculous scummy (and/or stupid) about FT's play. Does he really think this is more likely? Does a town FT really think that somebody who pushed him balls-out all day is scum? That statement isn't singling someone out, giving a solid read that he could try to push as him scumhunting, leading to people moving their votes off him. It's a "goddamnit why are they lynching me I can't solve the game right now and I don't want to be lynched so baaaaaaaaad here is what i think" post. As town he wants to drop half-thoughts like that. As scum that post is useless because nobody cares when he flips. For serious, dude is town. | ||
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On October 02 2013 09:20 WaveofShadow wrote: Cuz I think FT and SP are both town. See mah posts on them, but I was townie on them both.Austin I think the only reason you have poitns with me right now is some comment you made about being willing to lynch VA over SP/FT. Can you explain why? As far as other people who were even in the realm of discussion, because nobody wanted Koshi and there wasn't much ability to even start getting traction on solstice, VA was the guy I liked out of the set. Only got the one post on VA - + Show Spoiler + On October 02 2013 04:51 austinmcc wrote: I don't think either one of you is scum. The votes on you are a little scummier than the votes on ShiaoPi, imo, given that I'm fine with you and snb, scummy on Koshi, and unknown on VE/CC/HP. If I need to consolidate, that's a later thing. Looked back at VA. , because I DID give no comment on him. Disliked this post. I know we tend to undervalue the reads of early dead dudes, but this is too much. He died, therefore these guys look bad and this guy maybe looks bad, based on a single day of work. I don't love looking at it from "who looks bad with BH dead" instead of "what were BH's scum reads", and for someone who's trying to contribute little and observe much, I don't love this as being a jumping-in point? It's not much of a contribution, is highly speculative. His exchange with HP also reads a little bit like butt. Calls HP scummier than before for responding to someone accusing HP of being scum because of only talking about one scumteam. Gotta have "inherent guilt" in order to address the alleged scumslip. However, then he turns straight around and doesn't know how to read it: Which...maybe true, maybe not. But what I actually don't like the most about that exchange is that smack in the middle of those posts, CC posts a big thing on HP - + Show Spoiler + On September 30 2013 10:22 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: I'm townreading CR for this post: Chairman Ray has been the victim of D1 mislynches in his first two games. If he's mafia this game, I'd believe that he'd be even more cautious of the noose. I don't know of many players who, on their first scum game, would make a joke like this. This is a joke post that is null if a player like myself posted it, but for a noob like CR I'm leaning townie. Bit worried about HiroProtagonist (consider me the HiroAntagonist LELELEL) Opening post pretty weak. He'd like to hear more from some lurky dudes (duh) and tells people to keep doing things that they are currently doing, but fails to mention a read on any of the 3 bottom guys. He keeps telling people what to do, but fails really to do anything himself. Posts like these are easy to make as mafia. They tell people to go off and post more, give reads, pull their own weight, etc. However, in the entirety of these posts and before HiroProtagonist goes to bed, he has accomplished essentially nothing except extrapolate on his Palmar null read. It looks like he's actively doing things, but doesn't seem to be doing much of anything. He hasn't given reads but tells other people to give reads. The rest of his filter for the day sheeps the Yamato scumread. He literally quoted Pandain's case and said "I think exactly what Pandain thinks here" without any prior indication that he believed Yamato was mafia. By reading HiroProtagonist's filter before this, I would believe that he thinks WoS is mafia because he "called out his bullshit". Not seeing much town from HP. ___________________________________________________________________________________________________ Note: The Koshi to Yamato switch was awfully weird considering it landed on town. Granted, I liked the target so I can't complain much. Random lynch just seemed so epiccccccc ShaioPi is a fantastic night shot tomorrow. If you're mafia not on ShaioPi's team shoot him plz you gotta kill the other team sometime eh? Or cops gogo. I'm not sure if FT is bad or scum. following his own heuristic he should be lynched. You couldn't give me a klondike bar to read Rayn. Rereading WoS/Palmar/SnB. I'm just going to decide VE is town in my brain and not read into him that much unless he decides to transform into ScumeraEyes. Willing to lynch VA over SP and FT, would still go for other targets more though. | ||
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VE THE THREAD HAS BEEN HIJACKED BY ARGUING. ARE YOU A BAD ENOUGH DUDE TO CHAT WITH AUSTINMCC INSTEAD OF ARGUING? You want to lynch Hiro Protagonist. And Palmar? I will gladly chat about either of those people, and listen, and maybe get down with them lynches, if you will talk to me about solstice and ... pandain. Specifically, I will offer this --> Hiro Pro does not look good, but why do I lynch him NOW instead of trying to get him to comment on like...a bunch of stuff, lynching him if he doesn't or his responses are super scummy? | ||
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HOWEVER, LET'S TALK SPECIFICALLY ABOUT THE POSTS OF FT YOU HATE JUST BEFORE/AFTER LYNCH, AND ALSO ABOUT VA. I MADE A POST ON VA. AND SPOILERED IT ON THE LAST PAGE. PLOX TO READ AND CHAT. In non-caps, I think you're super overreacting to FT and jumping to incorrect conclusions. I think that "earlier voters scummier than later voters" comment is NOT scummy, because that post does NOTHING for a scum player. It doesn't move votes, it doesn't get read later, it's just useless letters. I think that THIS set of posts: On October 02 2013 05:45 WaveofShadow wrote: His reaction to the shenanigans: Apparently it's extremely confusing to FT that people decided to vote his 'scumread' rather than him. And I know I'm one to defend people's emotions and whatnot but I'm sorry, I just don't believe this. Honestly, the second quote is more believable than the first. Don't ask me why, just goin' on guts. I'm going to keep pushing VA and FT for scum until I die tonight, and then you guys can forget about my reads just like you do for every other confirmed townie! I'm not using my vest. Scum, it's your call. Apparently I'm not exactly a threat this game since people won't listen but if you're still scurred of me I'm a free range fucking turkey. Is also not scummy. I read that as legitimate WTF. Not "HAHAHAHA SCRUBS MAFIA IZ DA GREETEST!!!11!!1", but "WTF HE WAS TOWN AND I KNOW I AM TOWN SO WE WERE BOTH TOWN ALL ALONG /MNIGHTSHYAMALAN" Can you read them in that light? Or they are absolutely positively mega scummy? If nothing else, IF FT happened to be town, could you see that as a reaction? | ||
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On October 02 2013 09:39 VayneAuthority wrote: Alrighty. That post specifically because of what the speculation DOES, and the lack of effort to actually attach the speculation to the thread.while you're around austin, I don't really understand your case. It just reads like a documentary. We know what happened; but you don't seem to really draw any conclusions from it. Instead of telling us how any of that makes me scummy in context you are content to just comment on what happened. The first part I speculate...ok that's what I do lol. I have speculated in half my filter, why that post specifically? The second part is me making a legitimate mistake and getting too excited about finding something incriminating. I take a step back and realize it fits HP's nature. Not even remotely scummy. Won't ever come back to this point. The third part is really just nitpicking, I don't have a problem with Mr.CC yet so I don't feel the need to talk to him. By the same token you think mr.CC is scummy too for not talking to me then right? It's a bad argument as you can see. So let's talk about the first part then. As far as what it does, it just tosses out a bunch of names. You don't show why THESE are the names you pull out of BH's filter, and you make no effort to narrow things down. Someone shot BH. You dumb a list of dudes, these are all potential killers. But poof, that's it. If you're speculating as a townie, you might say "Here are a bunch of maybe killers. Oh shit, one/some of these guys totally shot a townie last night, that's not cool, I better figure out which. Analyzing things to see who killed BH is POSSIBLY helpful. But leaving a dump of names and not sifting through them is NOT helpful. And for someone who is apparently playing with cards close to the vest, keeping reads to himself, I would expect EVEN MORE SO that if you're going to bring up this list, you have a reason and a followup. You're willing to keep reads and information to yourself, but you're going to toss out half-thoughts? Boo. Not helpful to town. Just useless activity that LOOKS like it goes somewhere, but doesn't. | ||
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I don't see that post as presenting a whole thought, trying to get anyone thinking on this, or even showing that YOU are interested in thinking about this and reaching any kind of conclusion. It's a nothingpost that says "here are some dudes who are in the game where BH died." | ||
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On October 02 2013 09:48 VayneAuthority wrote: Stupidity/random questions/paint pictures > ad homs. I see your thought process and I now know why you think im scum every game. Not much else to say. That's what I do. I don't explain or push my reads but I play a very defensive style where I just make sure I don't get lynched as town. You can be like wave and ad hom attack me for it or you can simply ignore me, I don't really mind either way I actually had a bit I deleted about how you say you don't like to push your lynches/reads, and that's fine, but I feel like this is a separate matter. This is just about presenting a full thought, or presenting any sort of read. That post is entirely air, imo (anyone else, feel free to weigh in here). I have found you scummy in games you've presented reads, yeah, but I don't think you can claim that the post about who might have killed BH is a read or something like that. | ||
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On October 02 2013 09:52 VisceraEyes wrote: Mainly from I think misreading this postWhere did the bolded come from? Anyway, I'll discuss s0l with you. I'm willfully ignoring Pandain for the moment, but promise to take a look before dawn and I'll provide my read then. Anything specific you want to discuss about s0lstice? On October 02 2013 06:09 VisceraEyes wrote: Which I took as "you look scummy for x" "but maybe you're town because of the circumstances" "except that's not enough for me to change my read"You didn't really push the rayn lynch through which I WOULD have expected from a town Palmar. But I'm not sure how much of that to attribute to you not having played in X amount of time, now in a game with several people who you're not sure will just blindly do what you say. Ultimately, that's not enough for me to change my read. Actually, I really hate your posts on Palmar because it doesn't seem like you can figure out WHAT you want to do with him, despite calling him town at a couple points you don't seem convinced. | ||
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On October 02 2013 09:53 VayneAuthority wrote: I have no problem with that, if you actually want to play in that matter.I actually have laid out 3 pretty concise reads. my top 3 lynch targets right now are pandain, grackaroni, and palmar. You can see why I am not wasting my breath atm until lategame when people are actually ready to play But, to me, that's a reason to be suspicious/scummy on you. Because if you want to present concise reads and not waste your breath, then that post about how 1/4 of the thread might have killed BH is not a concise read and IS a waste of breath. Heck, that's why it sticks out, because it appears to be exactly the sort of thing you say you don't care about, but you posted it anyway. Reads like a post made for activity's sake/trying to look like you're analyzing something. | ||
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On October 02 2013 10:01 VayneAuthority wrote: I think if you have 3 clear scum reads, that is sexy and good.could you elaborate on how having 3 clear scum reads seems like waffling to you? However, THIS post is NOT 3 clear scum reads: On September 30 2013 07:37 VayneAuthority wrote: So I have no idea why anyone shot BH or what this means. The only people that trusted him even remotely were pandain, grack, and palmar. Everybody else tried to throw suspicion on him or said he was scummy. He died though so we know it wasn't a cop kill. Sooo wtf is going on here. Palmar/Pandain probably come off looking the worst from this since palmar gave him a town read and visa versa and pandain is trying to lynch FT through his dead body. Grack has some sort of boner for BH where he looks up to him so that is a potential fear kill. No need to reply to this post, I won't read it And this is the post that I keep coming back to and having trouble with. I'm specifically talking about that single post, and you don't present those people as clear scumreads there, imo. (Side note: When I want to find that post, I open your full filter and do a search for the word boner, because I know it appears in that post and no others.....) If you're using "these people interacted with BH" as part of thinking all three of those people are scum, then I also find that wonky, as it's unlikely they all got together and shot BH. | ||
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On October 02 2013 10:09 s0Lstice wrote: 'S a piece of it, yes.austin, I'll discuss s0lstice with you just to be clear...I am scum because I haven't been chomping at the bit to get all caught up and not be useless like you were correct? I've disagreed with some of the reads you presented, but that's not a wonderful foundation. Look all the way back to: On October 02 2013 00:07 austinmcc wrote: The posts you ARE making, the reads you are presenting, just don't match up with my thoughts on your normal play. Aside from the whole guilt thing.You guys should stop, imo. Neither of you seems to be getting anywhere. Instead, I propose we chat about some of the following:
Specifically:
On October 01 2013 00:58 s0Lstice wrote: right well I'm here, taking me awhile to catch up. I'm about to say fuck it and just start playing from here on (with a helpful summary for pages 40-now from someone) but we'll see how much time I get tonight. I didn't want to say much without having a complete picture of the goings on but if that means I never start talking then it's no good. from what I've read I don't like hiro, or Oats. Cheesecakes weird pressure vote on Oats bothered me as well. hiro for his entrance into the thread and early passivity (agree with Palmar's points here). Oats (at least up to where I stopped) hasn't started tunneling anyone yet, and is doing his 'drop a question into a bucket' thing he does as scum. I saw him engaging with the thread but had trouble figuring out what he was hoping to get from his questions and/or didn't see what he was doing with the answers he got. There's some rumblings for FT. Nothing struck me as odd about him from what I read. I'll look closer tonight. Here are some dudes, nothing odd about FT. On October 02 2013 01:09 s0Lstice wrote: like I said earlier I did get up to page 40 or so. still don't like the FT lynch. didn't see anything in his filter that screamed scum to me. from what I saw I would like to lynch hiro Don't like FT. Didn't see anything scum. On October 02 2013 01:15 s0Lstice wrote: yea I got WoS, Vayne, s&b, VE, Koshi as town reads I feel pretty good about. WoS for being engaged and furthering discussion into useful directions, s&b for a few posts that struck me as really good thinking, VE is gut, Koshi hasn't flipped his switch to 'woe is me/how does I play game/is this good?' yet so he's probably town, Vayne for lacking ad hom mainly but also for some useful contributions that I'm not used to from him. hiro entered the thread and didn't say shit about the rando lynch thing despite it being THE topic. I don't see how a townie isn't geeked out to talk about it. Hated his passive 'want to see more from X' posts. Oats may have gotten better, but what I said earlier still stands at least from what I saw. I see participation in the thread without any motive force behind it. Here are some reads, nothing on FT. On October 02 2013 04:19 s0Lstice wrote: @austin: tell me how I express guilt, specifically as it retains to an internet forum. you must know as it's important to your read on me. ##vote hiro protagonist All my townreads for the most part are on FT and that makes me not want to sheep after all I read this as "My townreads are on FT and I am townie on FT so I'm not going to sheep like I said," but still without ANY substantiation of the FT townread. On October 02 2013 04:59 s0Lstice wrote: I'd prefer to not die by fire shiao. I just don't feel anything for you vs some positive feelings for FT. Still think hiro is a better lynch than both Positive feelings for FT. You make good posts. You have good reads. (AS TOWN). Here, you have a "read" that is never really substantiated, starts as just "don't find anything scummy" but has never involved actually pointing to a single thing you find TOWNIE. This was a person up for lynch today, your first day to be able to lynch. But you never seem to actually look at him and present thoughts, you just keep plugging away, mentioning him without saying anything, and skate by. If you think FT is townie, like I do, and have reasons that you have presented and argued, like I do, then you might think that this is mafia calling a townie a townie but not being able to formulate his reasoning. Willing to drop a big old "here are some reads" but never actually substantiate the read on a serious lynch candidate today...no townie. Muy scumioso. | ||
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If WoS is scum, I might actually have to put some credence in reads based on stupid crap, and I'm not sure I'm ready for that world yet. | ||
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On October 02 2013 10:28 VayneAuthority wrote: (Except unless you're a cop you don't know whether those abilities are split between the two or both on one)one example I have ( gonna try and help our cops out here) 1 of the cops uses precision shot. the other walkie talkies the person shot at. If they are town you add another person to your town circle, if they are scum...well they are dead. I can post more if anyone thinks this isn't retarded. | ||
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On October 02 2013 10:31 s0Lstice wrote: We can only be dearest right now if you're town oh austin dearest. scum s0lstice: is skating by with lean reads because he can't for some reason (despite not being a dumbass) make convincing fake reads town s0lstice: is skating by with lean reads because he is operating on incomplete information due to time comstraints but still feels compelled to be present and accounted for at important events (i.e. his first lynch) again, not that I'm complaining about the time thing...but there is plenty to the town side of that and as far as I can tell you haven't made a clear case as to why one is better than the other. especially considering that I have a scum game to reference and I was in fine form in it. you want to give hiro time to do something, and he was here from day 1. I've said I am not going to be useless all game and I meant it. If I never pull through, lynch me then. EZPZ the truth is I have never been this inactive/useless as either alignment  I generally play active scum and I make fake reads and play and am somewhat active. I just played a scum game where I didn't post at all D2 and then just sheeped some vote right before the lynch happened. I do not buy into people always playing the same way, so having some fine form scum games(s) doesn't mean you're town this one (especially given that replacing into a game as scum is a whole different ball game than starting as scum). Hiro has posted stuff that makes me want to get him to take stances on things he hasn't talked about. It's not just "post more", it's more "post on these specific topics" You have posted a bunch about FT, but never actually SAID anything about him. Even more than VA's WHO SHOT BH? post, your FT comments are pure air. Never substantiated, constantly mentioned, and relatively important to the game given that he was up for lynch. ALSO IF YOU'VE NEVER BEEN THIS INACTIVE/USLESS AS EITHER ALIGNMENT THEN I DON'T THINK IT MATTERS WHETHER YOU WERE ACTIVE SCUM IN SOME OTHER GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAME. IT DOESN'T MATTER AT AAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLL. AND WHEN I'VE REPLACED IN AS SCUM I'VE BEEN INACTIVE, BUT REPLACING IN AS TOWN I USUALLY START COMING TO LIFE AFTER A BIT SO IT MAKES ME THINK EVEN MORE YOU ARE SCUM. Sorry. Find you scummy. If you're townie we can makeup after the game, but no kissing because I got hot dog stand lady breath and you don't want none of that. | ||
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On October 02 2013 10:32 VayneAuthority wrote: Nope. Again, I have an overly healthy love of speculation.its some more speculation ammo you can use against me Saying maybe cops should do x or y, saying why, perfectly sexy. You're speculating as to what they can do, but speculating with a REASON ---> if you guys haven't read your role PMs, I've been thinking about you, and here are thoughts. Whereas your speculation on who kills BH is more "BH WAS IN THIS GAME AND NOW HE IS DEAD AND HERE ARE SOME OTHER PEOPLE IN THE GAME SO MAYBE ONE OR ALL OF THEM KILLED HIM I THINK MAYBE PERHAPS?" Totally different. Near-full support behind speculation over cop actions or whatever, because there's a townie purpose to it and a conclusion you're reaching. No support behind the BH post, I don't think you can equate the two. | ||
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On October 02 2013 10:39 s0Lstice wrote: Fair (but you're still mafiaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa).dude, you cited my capability as town to make good reads and good posts. thats meta. when you meta you have to provide both sides. that's why I said I haven't played like this as either alignment i.e. meta is going to be mostly useless at this point Care to substantiate your FT read? Or talk about something else. Right now I'm going to be generally scummy on you because of what I've seen. And I will try to convince others you're scummy. If you're town, spend time doing townie stuff and don't argue with me solely about what's already happened in this game or others. | ||
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/U4eODRml.jpg) | ||
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Because as everyone who seems to have read the cop powers and understand the cop powers knows, mafia has the ability to bulletproof players. Especially mafia that may or may not have used drive by last night. Game is somewhat balanced around there being a good bit of counterplay between cops and mafia. IF you actually think FT is mafia, it's ridiculous to tell the cops to shoot him and have him not wear his vest. Mafia could either let him be shot and go through with a NK OR Mafia uses the KP to bulletproof FT. Instead of going 1-1 that night, they go 0-0 and have a "confirmed town" scum. I certainly know which of those looks better to me. Come on brosephs. If you're going to go through the trouble of reading the cop powers, read the friggin' scum powers. Cops do whatever you guys are doing, don't tell thread, kkthx | ||
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But seriously, he townzorz. | ||
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On October 02 2013 23:24 Oatsmaster wrote: Austin sounds like | ||
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On October 02 2013 23:27 Oatsmaster wrote: So defensive Austin Ya bro. I'm so defensive and defended with my bulletproof vest. That I have cuz I'm a townie. Not a cop. Unless I'm a cop? | ||
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Let's talk about...how VE played D1, must have died N1, because he sure as heck wasn't around for D2, indicating that he died and is a spooky ghost. Or how people think Koshi is a cop but Koshi Da Cop doesn't appear to have read the scum powers. Or how ... well, you provide some talking points! | ||
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On October 02 2013 23:42 Koshi wrote: No.Ok seriously. How does scum give a townie a bulletproof vest without noticing? I can't win vs scum that are next level ninjas. Everyone who thinks that FT is scum believes that he is on a scum team with access to bulletproof vests. Read da OP. Sacrifice KP = give a member of your team a bulletproof vest. The plan to have FT not wear a vest tonight and get shot by cops was being proposed, iirc, by people who were cool with lynching FT --> they believe he's scum. But again, if he's scum he can sac KP and grab a vest. If he's town, he won't get shot. If he's scum, we'll use a cop shot and he'll say "I totes wore my vest just in case scum wanted to shoot me tonight" and be "confirmed town" because people don't read the OP. In neither case is that good for town. It's either a waste of powers or going to confuse thread because cops don't 100% kill scum with that crap, given that scum can bulletproof up if the shot is called. | ||
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On October 02 2013 23:41 Oatsmaster wrote: Except VE did a good bit of looking townie on D1 and trying to influence the thread. You sort of sat there and oatsed.I want a hotdog. VE is playing exactly like me, active d1 not so active d2. Koshi is totally rad and ballin' Uhh Lets talk about Cheese. What cheese do you like? I have currently been adding Cotija to some green chile chicken chili, and I like that cheese but I dunno how I'm gonna use this whole block. I also have some cool feta for a cold salad that went with the chili. As far as this game goes, my notes on El Senor Cheesecake say "What cheese do?" followed by "What he do?" That's the sum total of my D1 thoughts on Cheese. I just recently played scum with Cheese, but honestly don't really have any major quirks to look for from either of his alignments. So far, he's been inactive as butt and really only seems to engage with WoS, like 60% of his filter is chat with WoS and not other bros. He's on my questionable list, but I don't have things that actively stick out from his filter as SCUMMY to me, unlike other folks. | ||
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On October 02 2013 23:46 Koshi wrote: And FT says, "Why wouldn't I use my vest? I was worried that scum would know 100% I was unprotected and shoot me, so I went ahead and used it. The shot would have killed scum anyway."Euuhm. We tell FT to not use his vest tonight. He agrees. Cops shoot him with PS, bullet not refunded = lynch FT for being scum. They waste KP to buy a vest, we waste a day lynching FT. Now it's the same as before. We wasted a night of cop action JUST to end up with FT maybe town/maybe scum. Unless what you are proposing is that on D3 we lynch a dude because some guys who want to lynch him told him not to do x, and he thought x might save his life, so he did x. (Besides he's town) | ||
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How you feel about...ShiaoPi's reads. Gimme like a townread and scumread you agree with and WHY WHY WHY? On October 02 2013 04:53 ShiaoPi wrote: Townreads are VA, austin, CR and Wos On October 02 2013 04:55 ShiaoPi wrote: nullish on most, keep a close eye on VE, Palmar, hiro and SnB, they are more on the scumside of null. kill solstice and CC with fire | ||
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On October 02 2013 23:53 Oatsmaster wrote: In an odd way, I THINK I find this to be the towniest thing you've said all game?If Im FT in the position he is in, I would totally take a scumshot because it means someone better than me doesnt get shot. | ||
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On October 02 2013 23:55 Oatsmaster wrote: You're not my real dad! I'll read people how I want.lol its probably the nullest thing ive said all game. The towniest thing was when I called you cop | ||
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On October 03 2013 00:35 Palmar wrote: You're missing best filter NA. Go read.I haven't read austinmcc yet. I'm feeling that of the three people I haven't read he's the most likely to be town, but idk, VE just called CC town so who knows. | ||
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On October 03 2013 01:14 WaveofShadow wrote: I'm more worried about people who goSo who was it who originally came up with that plan? VA? Is it indicative at all of his alignment that he would suggest that? Knowing Vayne he's not stupid enough to not think there'd be counterplay. YA GUD IDEAR than the original palmar/koshi i believe | ||
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Plus gang members have the pay phone dealy, so there's no guarantee that when someone masons you, they're automatically da popo. Gotta actually figure out whether you trust em. All that aside, VA isn't super mega scummy for suggesting that. Again, I'm more worried about the followup, people who read the comment but didn't think things through (or did and realized that it's not as airtight as originally thought) On October 02 2013 23:03 Palmar wrote: Someone mentioned cops shooting FT tonight and asking FT not to use his vest. I think that would be a pretty solid plan. On October 02 2013 23:17 Koshi wrote: Smart plan. FT if you read this. Can you confirm not using vest? + Show Spoiler + I am not a cop but doing their work. kk? | ||
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On September 23 2013 05:38 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: POLICE 2 Police (Buddy Cop Team) - By-the-book and loose-cannon cops. Both have a number of items which they can use a set number of times. Some items are exclusive to each cop, others are not. Here is the list: You don't know how many uses each item has. You don't know which cop has an item, or if both cops get it, etc. etc. I <3<3<3<3<3 speculation, and THIS is the sort that sometimes goes somewhere. BUT In this case, it's not really. I'm going to trust that two townies, given 144 hours, a mason chat, and a list of what they can do (unseen by other people) can figure out good and pro-town actions to take. The more we discuss it in thread, the more it clogs thread up with stuff that ultimately doesn't matter. I think initial reactions to plans and whatnot can be factored into reads, but at some point we turn away from scumhunting and turn towards "well if the cops can do x, they should do x, but if they can only y, then maybe do b instead" and that's not nearly as helpful as scumhunting, and lets scum get into thread and be slightly active about some topic other than scumhunting. | ||
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On October 02 2013 01:57 VayneAuthority wrote: I am not sold on FT or SnB but the majority of the list you just posted besides that is scum Today "SnB defended FT so he scum" Me no likey. | ||
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On October 03 2013 07:27 VayneAuthority wrote: Don't believe so. Reads change, but reads based SOLELY on what a scum wrote about someone is kinda smelly.vacuum, this is your first bad post For those that have played in games with multiple known scum teams, did it affect your play at all? More/less defensive of teammates? | ||
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I like VE lynch. I like Palmar lynch. I like solstice posting more. I still don't like Koshi. VE and Palmar both fall under similar rubrick, where they are active at times (VE D1, Palmar part of D1, time to argue with Rayn) but generally absent and not affecting the game at all. They've got bulletproof vests (unless they're scum). Palmar smells with his being entirely ambivalent about the lynch, never pushing anything, and generally just sitting in the background. VE smells for basically doing jack, smells slightly slightly slightly for pushing Hiro so hard but that could be perfectly legitimate, but generally just being a nothingmaster. Palmar also generally absent as far as DOING things goes, being more than just a presence. Some activity D1, some fighting with Rayn, but otherwise just ambivalence about a lynch and ambivalence about the game in general. In the interest of having only one Pa- poster ##vote: Palmar I think that leaving votes on FT and just mucking about "maybe FT maybe not FT" is a bad way to spend this day (Just like it was a bad way for me to afk 24 hours of it). If we just chat about FT and argue about him, we're losing a day and I honestly think that's a mislynch. FT has done diddly in response to pressure, yes. It makes him look worse, yes. But I don't actually think he's scum, and even if he is, there are....other scum? It's more productive to chase other scum right now, imo, if that makes sense. Solstice, keep posting. | ||
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When called out for being a cop by MULTIPLE players on D2, Koshi the Cop goes "OH SHIT MY COVER IS BLOWN IF SO MANY PEOPLE KNOW I'M COP THEN SCUM CERTAINLY KNOW CUZ THERE ARE 6 OF EM" Cop Koshi then tries to play. Tries to give reads. Tries to influence the game. Because holy crap Cop Koshi is going to get GOT overnight with what we think is 3 KP available to scum. Koshi did NOT play D2 that way. If you think Koshi is a cop, you're a silly goose, but in a way that's bad for town, not a fun silly goose. I would really <3 it if people who have townreads on the Koshisaurus would state explicitly, today, why they feel he townie. I don't think he is. Maybe he is, but I'd like to see these rationales, and I'd REALLY like to know if there's someone still going HE A COP HE A COP (p.s. I actually find VE's insistence on Kop Koshi one thing that is scummy about him, because towards the end of the day it became super apparent that Koshi was not playing like an outed cop. VE didn't adjust that, hasn't spoken up on Koshi (or anything). I also don't put it past scumVE to finger someone as a cop, then not shoot them, just to be able to fall back on "If I were scum, we would have shot Koshi cuz he's a cop") | ||
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On October 04 2013 08:25 VayneAuthority wrote: He's not even hard defending though, he's hard defending WITH VIGOR.actually it makes him scummier austin, but I still can't say anything. ffs... I don't know pandain's play from Adam's, but in general I find someone who's going back to past games and posting about them, actually using them, as well as posting this much and this hard about someone, to be a townie thang. Especially when he's getting NO traction with it, there's currently no payoff, nobody talking with him, nobody to convince, it's just posting a read into a vacuum and hoping to do something with it. You find it defending el scumbuddiero? Or just a ton of activity on a single subject concerning a read you disagree with? | ||
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VA I don't want to lynch today. He might be scum but he might not! Right now I want to keep him around, at the very least he's sometimes contributing, moreso than other folks. coughcough kill VE and Palmar. Post so wishy washy! | ||
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On October 04 2013 08:35 VisceraEyes wrote: You're gonna need to take a number.Give me some votes guys, I need incentive to do something in this game. Whether you actually want to lynch me or not, the pro-town thing is to put votes on me until I contribute something. Thanks for your cooperation in this matter. VE I don't care if you're not motivated, give me something...neat. A weird kooky read. A post that really caught your attention but you don't know what to do with it. | ||
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I slightly like this set of posts: On September 30 2013 01:40 Oatsmaster wrote: Just because they point out something neat, show that he's actually reading. There are paranoid counterpoints to that but for now I'm going to read that in a townie way and not in a hyper-observant about someone calling out scumbuddy way.Thats not the point. Its hard for me to explain. But its really odd. Also still really just like this post: On October 02 2013 23:53 Oatsmaster wrote: It's part joking, probably part not, and just a general throwaway post but one that, in my head, is an uncomfortable post for scum to make or something they don't automatically think of.If Im FT in the position he is in, I would totally take a scumshot because it means someone better than me doesnt get shot. | ||
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On October 04 2013 08:39 Pandain wrote: Call it woman's intuition?I had a town read on VE through his posts. I can't believe austin you still don't see how scummy Vayne has been with absolutely shit votes with no follow-up, huge set-up speculation which honestly can't be done unless you have inside knowledge, backtracks, no actual content despite 8 fucking pages of filter , and the such. How can you think he's objectively a better lynch then a Palmar who honestly I think might just be retarded. Palmar's not retarded, and I start to worry about players who have been around a long time, start with a somewhat townie D1, and then tail off. Even if he's retarded, he can still be scum. Being retarded doesn't guarantee you a green or blue PM. VA is speculating a good bit after getting a scumread on him in part because of speculation. I know when I've been scum I've been scared off of certain actions when I did something and a townie called it scummy, I wanted to stop doing that. Continuing to speculate over NKs feels townie to me because of that, although not a boatload if this is actually his normal MO in all games. He's just not as scumtastic as other folks to me right now. I know he's doing some things that aren't helping town, but almost ALL of us are doing that, and I feel like we can poke around a level deeper than that. | ||
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On October 04 2013 08:39 Pandain wrote: I don't mean to imply he's the lurkiest lurker that ever did lurk.Palmar besides that has been playing as town, I don't think he's as lurkery as you think. But his posting is on subjects that I don't think matter. He's got a boatload of posts today on his VOTE yesterday. Palmar shouldn't care about his vote yesterday. Mislynches happen. Vote switches happen. He's not even getting serious votes or anything for it. But he spends forever going over the ins and outs of voting and bovine reproduction or whatever else. His activity, in cases like that, is about subjects that just don't matter as far as scumhunting goes. Plus again. You both have Pa- names. Someone gots to go. | ||
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Also, it's not pure policy. I just disagree here, because I don't think the activity Palmar has shown has done much to help town. A lot of his posts are just posts to me, they don't push or pull or DO, and he's happy to just sit back and let today happen, meaning basically a day and a half of lynches that Palmar doesn't care about. | ||
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On October 04 2013 08:35 VisceraEyes wrote: Give me some votes guys, I need incentive to do something in this game. Whether you actually want to lynch me or not, the pro-town thing is to put votes on me until I contribute something. Thanks for your cooperation in this matter. On October 04 2013 08:37 austinmcc wrote: You're gonna need to take a number. VE I don't care if you're not motivated, give me something...neat. A weird kooky read. A post that really caught your attention but you don't know what to do with it. On October 04 2013 08:39 VisceraEyes wrote: ResuingI did, he flipped cop I'm working on it austin just bear with me. ![[image loading]](http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h116/austinmcc11/63a1d370-0877-4099-a18c-29bec10fdcd4.jpg) VE. This bear wants to CONSUME YOUR SOUL. I don't know what kind of motivation votes give you, but THIS IS YOUR SOUL. ABOUT TO BE CONSUMED BY A BEAR. I got your coded message. I understand that bear crumb. I know you're under attack right now. And I promise, we can PROBABLY still save your soul. But you're gonna have to help us out here. We're the town VE. We're stuck in nasty-ass detroit (as best I can tell?). There are soul-eating bears. It's dark, and it's detroit, and there are soul-eating bears VE. Shit's serious. So you're going to need to post some thoughts. Some musings. People are DYING, VE. They are DYING. And a bear is going to eat your soul. I don't know if I can reinforce these things strongly enough. I know there's a bear with you. But you're only going to last so long. The bear will win if you don't post. The bear will win. | ||
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On October 04 2013 10:42 VisceraEyes wrote: Checklist for tonight:
![[image loading]](http://0-media-collegehumor.cvcdn.com/a/5/collegehumor.8858b2da77efc57fd05c30b5c44fb6d5.jpg) They lost their jobs. They lost their book deal. They're adrift now, VE. Adrift in this sea we call life. And they're hungry. Oh, so very hungry. Can you hear them? Can you hear them in the night? | ||
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On October 04 2013 10:30 VisceraEyes wrote: Yeah he doesn't play much anymore. :/ Like...my town read on him is waning with every moment that he's not calling for my head on a platter. He's just kinda been brushing the idea of lynching VE into the thread...town Palmar usually lays the HAMMER DOWN on a VE that isn't contributing because when we played together a lot that was my MO as town. On October 04 2013 10:35 VisceraEyes wrote: Also he hasn't called me bad, OR stupid. I think he thinks I'm both...suggesting manipulation. But there's not a lot I can comment on. All that says is that for you-specific reasons, you're doubting your earlier town read. You think town Palmar would do x. But you're not out and calling him scum, just less townie, and potentially trying to manipulate you. I'm not gonna lynch him based on that. I'm not gonna NOT lynch him based on that. And that doesn't do anything for how I read you. So, in a nicest way to say it, it's not useful to me. Maybe it's a stepping-stone for you to reread Palmar or your interactions with him, although Palmar wasn't on your list. | ||
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On October 04 2013 11:16 VisceraEyes wrote: Let's go with this. You thought he was town, that's waning.You've been issuing these non-defense-defenses of Palmar most of the game...now your vote is on him. Like...I don't know, I just thought there would be more you'd have to say on the guy your vote is on. But whatever, I'll just take it for what I assume it is: your way of telling me "not good enough". Here are some specifics that I'm worried about - He ain't dead. It's dumb but it's true. - Was somewhat active/engaged early. Looking through his filter earlier I found a nice, fat reads post + Show Spoiler + On September 30 2013 00:40 Palmar wrote: Probably Town Koshi - Probably town, if scum he played getting hit by the RNG pretty well. VisceraEyes - Keep an eye out on how much of a leadership role he takes. He was very townie early on in day 1, but I'm somewhat unsure how much of a role he truly played in the yamato lynch. I need to re-read. If he starts fading into the background reconsider, but for now town. Oatsmaster - Confrontational and an asshole, completely useless too, so that kinda fits him being town Blazinghand - Probably town, needs to be more in the forefront. WaveofShadow - Too active, too free-flowing and engages easily with people to be scum. Pandain - His case was ok. If he keeps trying he's town. Pandain is awful as scum anyway so he'll fuck up sooner or later if he is. Haven't analysed/read at all: Chairman Ray Mr. Cheesecake VayneAuthority austinmcc Only done a quick read/null: strongandbig - if I die he's less likely (only slightly) to be scum (unlikely his scumteam would shoot me after he spends time creating a case on me), but I have no idea really, I think his case was wrong because of bads, not because of malicious. ShiaoPi - One of the best candidates for re-reading. He hasn't done anything worth noting all game, at least that I noticed. I'm going to look into him when I have time. raynpelikoneet - Don't really know. Grackaroni - Again, read some, no conclusion Scummy people hiro protagonist - His start was awfully conservative. I still haven't spent time looking at his later posts, but yeah. RebirthOfLeGenD - Said he'd catch up, didn't. FirmTofu - See my earlier analysis. Haven't paid attention to him since. ------------------- please don't take this list as gospel, my reads on night 1 (especially with a weekend start) are okay, but not great. I'm prety sure most of the scum is in my null/scum zone, but if someone does something stupid, don't let the come back and go "BUT PALMAR SAID I WAS TOWN". Anyway, I won't have time to play much today. Writing this in case I can't be back before deadline. - He's got the early argument with rayn. Lots of posts concerning rayn's worry over yamato calling palmar town. Getting on rayn's case for a townread on oats at the time. Jumps on an inconsistency, pokes at it, posts a bunch. Honestly, when I'm reading N1 or most of D2, it's still just Palmar talking to rayn about why rayn is dumb/wrong/whatever. He's very very active when it comes to this one issue, and otherwise just flits about a bit. Basically, a wise man once summed up my feeling on the rayn posts like this On October 02 2013 00:34 Palmar wrote: Both. He's not mafia for being bad, he's mafia for not doing anything outside of arguing about points like the one we just argued about. - He doesn't care about the lynch at all on D2. He calls FT scum, was on him D1 and stays on him D2. All well and good. His only post on SP really is On September 30 2013 19:24 Palmar wrote: before the switch. The switch, at least from Palmar's posting, is purely rayn-based. I just read again through Shiaopi's filter, he's not a bad lynch either, he's done almost nothing. I would like to point out that along with Grack, he helped push suspicion off FT. Shiaopi do you still think FT is town, do you think his reasons for wanting to lynch you are legit? And why do you think VE is scum? - Palmar's reactions to the flip, immediately, look like he's doing something. On October 02 2013 06:10 Palmar wrote: Mostly because I don't know if you are. Could you like spam a bit and explain your reads through the game. Additionally, I think I'm waffling on rayn being scum based on what just happened here. I'm not entirely sure. On October 02 2013 06:12 Palmar wrote: which would open other doors for scum, for example SnB and the replacements, both I have mostly ignored lately. Also Oats was really passive in the shitstorm between me and rayn. Look at those posts. I voted a dude. The dude was town. Now I need to rethink things, my read on rayn...which then messes with my reads on other people. And I'm trying ever so hard to read you VE. How can I hold all these reads I'm trying to make? - After returning to thread, we get another sizeable post + Show Spoiler + On October 02 2013 22:59 Palmar wrote: I really don't know anymore. A few quick thoughts. I'm less sure in my early townreads and more sure in my later ones. Especially I think Koshi, Chairman Ray and Grack are very unlikely scum. VE, Oats, Pandain, WoS more likely than before (but still nowhere near lynch territory, let's say I'm leaning town on them. A quick note on WoS, for someone that was willing to enter an argument early in the game about his proficiency at mafia I don't feel like he is having the influence his own perception of his skill should warrant. If you think you're so good why aren't you trying to lead us? I have still to read CC and the replacements through. I'm assuming at least one if not two scum in there because that's kind of what I do, I always ignore the lay-low scum. SnB still hasn't done jack shit, good candidate for lynching tomorrow. I still think Hiro's entrance into the thread was really awkward and he's not doing much at all, another good lynch. Rayn is a bit of a question mark, he's super reckless (to the point of being willing to die just to make a point, I don't know if he anticipated no one going along with it, or if he just doesn't care). He's doing stupid things, not taking an active stance about anything for the most part except me. I don't really know if all this makes him ballsy scum or reckless town, in both cases he's being very useless. Vayne is another question mark. He's being an asshole about being awful at the game. I have no idea why. He also indicated he's been playing this a long time, which is important because he would probably be pretty towny if he was new to mafia. FT remains a good lynch. - And that's it. He just posts a bunch about the switch and why he totally wants FT dead and why he switched cuz of Rayn and etc. It's the bolded quote above. He's mafia for not doing anything outside of just picking these dinky little fights. He's not fighting about someone being scum or town. He's just goading rayn and continuing to post about things that don't actually matter because they're not scumhunting. His activity, his major points of activity for the last 96+ hours, has nothing to do with scumhunting. He's just posting, occasionally dropping mushy lists of reads that are never actually solid. VE, has Palmar done anything between D2 and D3 to make you <3 him? Do you actually get the feeling that he IS trying to read you? Because I'm not getting a townie vibe from anything he's done recently. (I dunno if I soft-defended him before, maybe? I don't think I've said too much about him until now, but go hunting! Hunt hunt! I think he should totally be lynched though) | ||
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I do like him as a lynch now, though. It may not be as useful a thing to look for as I think, but veteran-ish players who are scum seem to often look townie on D1 and then tail off, can't keep it going. This fits that pattern. grack was calling him out for wishy-washy stuff, but at this point he's not even being wishy-washy anymore. | ||
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On October 04 2013 11:43 VisceraEyes wrote: The vote means I think he's scum.No he hasn't. But since he was a townread of mine and you're voting to lynch him (and seem to mean it in spite of not explicitly thinking he's scum) I'm gonna reread the guy and see if I missed anything. We were supposed to do great things together Now neither of us are doing great things and some low-life beat-cop is taking all our glory.Just took me an extra day. | ||
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On October 04 2013 11:44 Pandain wrote: For one, you also seem to think he's scumAustin if you want to convince people, convince me that Palmer is a better choice then Vayne. On October 03 2013 08:17 Pandain wrote: Rayn, Palmer, Vayne, Solstice, VE. There you go scum Mainly though, it's a couple things. As far as VA goes
I don't disagree that there's some nothing in his filter. I don't disagree with the stuff you brought up about him making a mushy read on Hiro Pro (I commented on that yesterday, and I DO find that scummy). But I think a couple of the specific items that turbo-charged your VA lynching machine today aren't what you make them out to be. Either aren't as scummy as you make them out to be, or are...are the sort of things you find/push when you think a person is scum already. The shoot me no don't shoot me doesn't matter, imo, and is just the kind of thing you highlight when you already want to lynch someone. My Palmar thoughts are in the post above. I think that, based on the dropoff in activity/caring, and how the only real care posts are these lists of reads that look decent but actually aren't particularly insightful/revealing upon 2nd, 3rd, 4th read, he's a better lynch. I'm more sure of his scumminess. | ||
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I'm headed to bed soon, but around for a bit to keep chatting. Had typed that solstice would make a good cop check, went to go look at the OP again. We really need to look at Hiro's reads hard, because not only was he town but he was masoned with another townie AND they had bonus information. | ||
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On October 02 2013 04:57 hiro protagonist wrote: real quick before the deadline. Most likely town: VE, WoS, Grack, Koshi, austin null: Palmer, ryan, VA, CR. People I once thought as town, but are now slightly scummy: SaB, Panda, Oats Scummy: Shiao... damn, doin up this list makes me realize how little other strong scum reads I had... There's not oodles, a lot of the recent stuff was actually him pushing SP and promising to catch up | ||
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Better to be working towards finding them than you guys going back and forth. | ||
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On October 04 2013 12:33 Pandain wrote: We don't know what happened.The problem is, and I disagree with Austin here, is that we don't know what cops did and what scum did. Maybe scum shot SnB, maybe cops did with the precision bullet. Maybe scum didn't double save day one and instead used bullet vest or frame. You made assumptions too fast and certain for my liking when there are too many variables and are probably the scum team that didn't shoot BH(so you know if a double save happened and made the conclusion but failed to realize we don't know that). But nobody has claimed to have been shot and survived, and I don't THINK that scum would be passing up KP early on for other stuff. That's pure assumption, but your goal as scum is to kill townies. Unless those other powers help you kill townies, you probably just shoot. Powers honestly seem like nice ways to confuse us later in the game, by spending the bonus KP from killing cops or other team, and ways to keep cops honest and prevent them from claiming in thread and calling their actions, prevent them from masoning people and revealing plans to masoned dudes with no repurcussions (if you mason scum, they can mess with your results/actions/whatever). | ||
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On October 05 2013 00:22 raynpelikoneet wrote: And scum only defend scumbuddies! They never defend townies.Except Pandain, there is a connection between him and SnB. SnB defended FT quite a bit in FT -- ShiaoPi lynch last day. On October 05 2013 00:14 Palmar wrote: Trying not to play the "toss everything Palmar says on the scummy pile" game, but this statement is just lazy/bad/anti-town.btw, planning a voteswing is usually an awful idea. I know I should probably not be arguing this as said voteswing most likely would be onto me, but if I'm FT and reading this thread right now, I just don't post anything, hope town voteswings and post my vote right at the deadline. He's dead anyway and it stops town from usefulness for another cycle. He has already posted this cycle, so he is very much aware of this game. I guarantee you FT doesn't have magical powers where his being alive prevents people from posting, from reading, from doing anything. If he survives another 18,000 nights, we'll all have the capacity to read and post. | ||
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On October 05 2013 00:35 Palmar wrote: That's due to player behavior, not the game itself. I'll MS Paint my ass off if it motivates anyone. Or maybe people can find it within themselves to go hunt the other scum, or to read the filters they haven't read (cough cough), or just to show up.Sure, but motivation goes down when you're just default-lynching. Discussion decreases too. I cba going back to other games where there is a default lynch (cop check, confirmed scum etc) to see if I'm actually right, but I have a strong feeling it does. I agree that it's the usual case, but I think it's a lazy justification for doing nothing. | ||
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On October 05 2013 00:43 raynpelikoneet wrote: I have one in particular in mind. One of the dudes on the player list. EBWOP: Austin, who's the other soft-claimed coop? | ||
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On October 05 2013 00:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: I don't think so, at least not yet.So should we in your opinion discuss them -- Koshi? In case you are right one of them has to be mafia right? People can be doing it for fun. People can be doing it to try and support their reads, make it look like they might come from cops. People can be doing it as townies to draw shots. Rather we just not overly worry about the cop for now and hope the cop isn't me and maybe claims at some decent time to be able to give information to thread and not die with it. Don't think that's a now thing though, and I don't think we have to hunt. | ||
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On October 05 2013 00:52 raynpelikoneet wrote: Because people look at their original reads and think they must be right. Like VE's "less townie" on Palmar, I think people liked his early play and aren't taking a fresh look at his play in full.I am talking about his claim this phase, not on N2. Why do you think everyone thinks Palmar is scum but noone is actyually willing to lynch him? Personal theory. | ||
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On October 05 2013 00:55 Pandain wrote: That is, for some of us, entirely irrelevant to Palmar's alignment. There are other reasons. They are posted in the thread.There's literally like no reason Palmar is scum except for that vote switch which only means anything if FT is scum. | ||
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On October 05 2013 01:02 Pandain wrote: "Bad" and "Troll" are giant continents of mafia play. Palmar's activity, being focused on things that don't matter and NOT on scumhunting, puts him in like...the Mafia Siberia or Mafia Indian Subcontinent of Bad/Troll Asia. They are all bad. Even my own reasons are weak and can be attributed to him being bad which sorry Palmar I honestly think you are playing bad right now. He was always a troll and is a troll. Whereas other people can troll but be in Town Southeast Asia of Troll Asia. I like picturing that on a map but I don't think it makes much sense written out and there are less stupid ways to say that but screw it. | ||
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On October 05 2013 01:07 Pandain wrote: You should go back and read D2 and early N2. I defended FT on some of the things you pulled out today. I currently think he's town, but not as strongly as before.EBWOP I mean the reasons why he is scum are bad. I think the main thing is a disconnect between him posting and appearing active and yet not having an active role is the main point of concern, but that isn't enough to lynch him today. do you agree with me yet that FT is town? I like picturing that on a map but I don't think it makes much sense written out and there are less stupid ways to say that but screw it. And Koshi this is day three now and Vayne is on page 8 of his filter | ||
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Do you think that you are changing anyone's mind on VA, as far as getting him to be the numbah won ichiban lynch choice today? Do you think that you have or are going to? If no, I think you need to step back just a bit. You are dominating thread, and it doesn't matter how YOU look. It's drowning out other posts, other things, and if it's drowning out the rest of the game while not actually changing anyone's mind on anything, it's not good right now, no matter how much you want to lynch VA. If yes, keep it up, I guess. I get what you're trying to do, but there are....externalities. You're not just posting your thoughts, not just trying to convince people, you're dominating the discussion and that has effects on the readability of the thread and the visibility of other posters. | ||
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FirmTofu hit 5 first. CR is on VA, FT and VE still no votes? I think that's correct. | ||
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On October 05 2013 03:22 WaveofShadow wrote: I know you haven't looked into him, or at least don't think you have.Damn it austin, my cockles are plenty warm, but only by you. I don't think I've looked into solstice yet at all honestly (have I?), mostly because I already have 3 mega-scumreads who I don't think any other person would trump right now. I would not lynch him today---it's too lat in the day to consider imo. But his filter ain't giant. Plox to look. | ||
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Oh, you mean about the read. Dunno. | ||
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On October 05 2013 03:32 WaveofShadow wrote: Nono. Making dumb comments.I've been around. If you don't know then why did you ask? Did you expect me to do something else/give a different result/ refuse to do the read? Think "Is that a x or are you just happy to see me." | ||
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On October 05 2013 03:43 WaveofShadow wrote: You're in my middle group. There are a chunk of people you're kinda stanceless/mentionless on. I want to poke you a little and see what happens.Yeah well I still wouldn't mind an answer. | ||
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On October 05 2013 03:56 VisceraEyes wrote: I believe this to be a bad idea. But whatever, I'm going to go ahead and vote for FT because I can't make an argument against him being scum, and I don't want Palmar to die. Not yet. | ||
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On October 02 2013 00:34 Palmar wrote: Both. He's not mafia for being bad, he's mafia for not doing anything outside of arguing about points like the one we just argued about. On August 04 2012 00:47 Palmar wrote: The problem with intelligent townies is that they need to be right, and you need to be wrong. Non-top town players aren't terrible, they're just less adept at coming up with solutions, that doesn't mean they're incapable of recognizing a correct solution when it's presented to them by a top town player. Which is why killing town heads is so important. One amazing town player, can make 10 decent townies good. Almost everyone in this game is at least decent or good, so all it takes is someone to lead them, then they WILL recognize what is correct and what is not, and steamroll the mafia. whistle whistle whistle | ||
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On October 05 2013 04:18 WaveofShadow wrote: No. Not atm anyway. Town can hop on my back later though maybe.I'm not sure I get your point. Are you saying that you're leading town? What was Palmar's first quoted post referring to? I'm mostly saying that, for a dude who thinks one good player can lead town, he sure as heck isn't even making 1/4 of an effort to try and do so. He posts on stuff that ain't scumhunting, drops reads, occasionally comments. But he never makes any real effort to DO, to LEAD, to get people to do anything. He is not absent, he's just unwilling to play pro-town or help town. Cuz he mafia. That quote was in response to On October 02 2013 00:33 VisceraEyes wrote: Palmar do you think rayn is just really bad or do you think he's mafia? On October 02 2013 00:33 VisceraEyes wrote: Or is he both? They're not mutually exclusive. | ||
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Palmar/WoS/solstice/CR/(VA or Cheese) is where I currently sit. LOOK AT MY MUSCULAR, CHISELED BACK TOWN. LOOK AT IT. DO YOU NOT WANT TO HOP ON? Perhaps tomorrow, or perhaps later Koshi revelations will clear something neat up. | ||
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On October 05 2013 04:30 WaveofShadow wrote: Eh. Oats gets an odd townread from me from a thing or two he said. I trust the claim for now, and Koshi vouches for Rayn as well.For a guy I consider town, your reads are WAY off from what mine are. That is puzzling to me. Knowing I am town that means one of us is way off, or you are scum. (Or we're both partially wrong and our reading methods are off or something?) I think that a chunk of my read on you stems from Palmar. If he is actually town, I have to look you over again. Of course, if you both flip mafia....pew pew pew. | ||
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On October 05 2013 04:31 Koshi wrote: Nha. VE is second confirmed town. So that looks possible. Okay. I came down to VE/CR/VA/Cheese as my unknowns, and cleared VE out of the bunch, and moved CR to actively scummy. | ||
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I agree that Oats ain't strongly town, but some of what he's said just struck me as very town-minded. Not even town-minded in a "scumhunting the other team" way, but just about the game in general. CR's old town games are like...plans to do stuff, votes put on people he doesn't think are scum so that MAYBE scum will hop off the leading candidate and onto that other guy (indicating that the main candidate IS scum), etc. etc. Tricksy, calculating, and lynched for it because it sounds a little too wonky. This game, he's doing a little calculating and theory, but it almost always concerns scum actions/scum teams. In some ways, my read on him is like...reverse blue sniping. It looks like he wants to play his normal game, but he's caught up in scum actions, and so all his theories and speculation posts focus on scum actions. Not a boatload to go on, but it's there. His entry posts are also a bit crafted for my taste. He never never drops in. It's always a sizeable post focused on one or two areas, not like he hops in and gets dirty but like he knows he's not around and crafts these single posts to drop into thread. There might have been something else but I forget. WoS/solstice we'll see about. | ||
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My townread has been waning, but it's still barely there. | ||
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But don't do that, lynch Palmar instead. I feel like people often DON'T get modkilled for a single no-vote, but it's up to the hosts. It would be helpful if you guys could give an indicator as to what WOULD happen if he no-voted, although ... you may not want to host that way. Just nice for us. | ||
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On October 05 2013 04:54 WaveofShadow wrote: Yeah, well, I'm not sexually attracted to pidgeons but they just keep giving me those bedroom eyes and buying me drinks. Sometimes you just gotta sex that pidgeon.I've already explained about 100 times that I don't want to vote Palmar. I don't want to sheep a vote I don't feel I have much of a look into. VE Koshi's theory is predicated on Palmar being scum with FT. IF Palmar is NOT scum with FT, he can attack the argument itself, detail why it's a bad theory, in full honesty and easily, because he KNOWS it's based on false assumptions.This post makes me think Palmar is town trying to prove it more than think he's scum trying to fake it. Scum like to do shit like repost things they've already posted and say "Your argument is therefor invalid" and shit, not explain in detailed terms why that possibility could NEVER exist. Am I wrong in that assumption? Like...Palmar is getting called scum, but for a reason he knows is ENTIRELY wrong. He needs to NOT get called scum to win for scum, and so, if nothing else, he's got to dismantle weird suspicions on him in a logical way, because weird suspicions + legit suspicions could = lynch. That's my 2 cents. | ||
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On October 05 2013 05:27 WaveofShadow wrote: Yes. Me being right does not mean everyone should stop playing mafia and sheep me. Unfortunately (for you), I think the flip makes you like like a very naughty boy.FINE AUSTIN I was wrong. Bbut that doesn't mean I'm going to assume you're right about everything else too. | ||
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On October 05 2013 05:28 Koshi wrote: It's not the size of the boat....Like fucking always. FT flips town when his filter is small. Every fucking game. Fuck him. | ||
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We can fly twice as high Take a look austin's not a crook mafia rainbow | ||
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Should be some neat-o votey stuff and association-y stuff with two flipped. I liked WoS for being on Palmar's team earlier, will see if I can flesh that out into a post and see if he also fits with snb. Everyone super jumped on pandain's nuts as best I can tell because... (1) His trolly post saying he was mafia? (Except nobody wanted to talk about it earlier) (2) something? | ||
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On October 05 2013 06:04 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm not yet. I just couldn't resist the reading rainbow song and being mildly amused that all of a sudden my name is popping up as questionable.Nice shootin kid, but don't get cocky. Hasn't all game. Suddenly I'm right on something and I'm smelly, but if I were going to call myself smelly for anything it'd be that I was right on SP and FT yesterday both being town. | ||
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On October 05 2013 06:39 VisceraEyes wrote: Oh whatever. I liked your WoS suspicion, natch.GUYS WIN IN SPITE OF ME I KNOW YOU CAN DO IT!!! | ||
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On October 05 2013 07:22 Koshi wrote: I think it makes perfect sense. Heck, VE and WoS know all about it from Aperture.How is that even possible, afraid to buss teammates and inapt to find other scumteam? They are scum, but there's another scum team out there with KP. So every scum in this game needs to look NOT the most townie person ever (might get shot by other scumteam) but not the scummiest (might get lynched). Look at Palmar. He wasn't trying to run the town, look very townie, scumhunt. Everyone goes "If palmar is scum he'll find the other scumteam kkk." But he doesn't want to threaten the other scumteam, because the WORST thing for Scumteam 1 is for Scumteam 2 to shoot them. That means Scumteam 2 didn't shoot town AND Scumteam 1 is in danger of extinction. So you WANT to be inept at finding the other scumteam. Or at least never push them. If you turn over the wrong rocks, they pop you. | ||
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On October 05 2013 07:36 VisceraEyes wrote: But no I think hiro shot SnB. I mean given this...... On October 05 2013 00:55 Koshi wrote: This means BH died to 1 NK from a scumteam n1 & the other team used driveby. Then on night 2 there was 3 NK and they used it on the flipped targets. Cops had nothing to do with it. Fact is I can bus myself and can't get killed by anything on 1 night because bus > RB. But I don't know if both scumteams have 1.5 NK or that 1 scumteam has 2NK. Which sucks ass. | ||
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On October 05 2013 07:45 raynpelikoneet wrote: Not attacking VE, showing him that according to what we know snb was a scum shot.Are you people reading or not? Koshi said cops have not shot anyone. Cops have also confirmed me and VE as town. Please read. | ||
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On October 05 2013 07:54 Koshi wrote: You won't get notified when you are hit. I am not tricksy. On September 23 2013 05:38 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: CIVILIANS 11 Civilians - all Civilians have a single one-use bulletproof vest which will protect them from 1 KP that night. If they are shot at and survive, they will be notified. yes we will | ||
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On October 05 2013 08:38 VisceraEyes wrote: It's a combination of things. I'll make a too-large post in later tonight or later this cycle. Let's suppose that I agree and think that he's scum - what makes you sure he's Palmar's partner? Don't scum shy away from mentioning their partners most of the time? Like - bringing attention to them consistently doesn't seem a very powerful strategy to me. I'd be more inclined to believe he's on the opposing team if he's scum. There are a couple things that made me think he would be bros with Palmar if Palmar was scum. Off a quick reread but without the big post: (1) The WAY that he fought the Palmar lynch. Palmar maybe scum, but I can't read the guy. I can never read the guy. Palmar maybe scum, but I wouldn't lynch him over my other scum suspects. Palmar maybe scum, but let's switch onto Oats? Oats scum guys, let's switch Oats over Palmar. At no point does he step in front of the lynch, but he's always trying to drive it sideways. Maybe we lynch someone other than Palmar. Maybe if we swap off FT we swap onto someone else. I'm not saying Palmar isn't scum gaiz, but ... I can't read him. Can never read him. Ask me for a read? I can't read him, maybe he's whatever. (2) There are a lot of playful WoS/Palmar posts. Not bussing. Just them joking about some bad game WoS played, how he's so good but not Ace now. Neither is really doing anything to read the other. They just sort of dance with each other for no reason. ***THIS IS NOT A PARTICULARLY GREAT REASON I KNOW THAT*** (3) Oat's specific read on Palmar at points in the game. He started off apparently townish, without ever really having any specific justification. His read, if you follow it, is never anything particularly specific, and always hidden behind "I can't read Palmar kkkk" (4) It may sound dumb, but this post - + Show Spoiler + On October 05 2013 00:41 WaveofShadow wrote: Palmar I have a question for you. The emphasis here is that decent townies recognise good solutions when they're presented to them. Unfortunately way too many townies atm don't take the time to assess and appreciate the correct answers given to them by strong townies (or just townies who are correct and making good arguments), and instead go off and do their own (incorrect) thing. The bolded section is something marv wrote. Do you think this may be relevant to the current situation at all? (5) WoS never spoke about snb. Once said he was "dropping bombs," but nothing beyond that. Snb, in turn, likes wos's case on FT, mentions it like 3-4 times, but never ever speaks of any sort of read on WoS. I know snb didn't exactly chat about a boatload of people, but neither mentions the other at all really, despite SnB always noting he liked WoS's case. Call it mostly 1, with a little 4-5 mixed in. | ||
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But without looking at EVERY filter, from what I remember and then his filter, he has the most scumteam-y opposition to the Palmar lynch. No real read. No real push AGAINST, just trying to shunt it away. Palmar becomes a scumread, but less than others, and it just felt the most "OH DEAR GOD NO NO NO NO NO GOTTA STOP THIS WITHOUT LOOKING LIKE I'M SUPER STOPPING IT." | ||
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On October 05 2013 09:05 VisceraEyes wrote: You're town and didn't do it in the same way. You were against it, then unsure, and also have basically been confirmed so nobody cares. He was against it, then scummy on Palmar but NEVER for lynching him, and always trying to drive things elsewhere.I mean - I argued against it. Just saying. | ||
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On October 05 2013 02:53 Pandain wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote Palmar ##Unvote ##Vote VA There now he should be in the lead Based on a faulty vote count of mine, he voted/unvoted so that Palmar would get lynched over FT (at the time). | ||
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On October 05 2013 10:56 VayneAuthority wrote: If you have magical Koshi-is-lying and VE-isn't-confirmed information, then speak.it is not clear by any means that you are town, so you are pretty lucky you have the cop check. You are pushing into 2 of the most active posters, one of which I know is town. If you don't, he's town. Maybe he's missing shockwaves, but you KNOW he's town. It's not "luck", it's not "not clear that [VE is] town", he IS. So who (other than very-very-very-likely-VE) do you KNOW is town and why? | ||
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On October 05 2013 11:12 VisceraEyes wrote: What is with you people and horse feces? Like...I have ACTUALLY noticed that word all over this game.He's saying he's one of "the most active posters" austin. He's saying that I'm scummy for pushing him. Do you believe this horseshit? On September 29 2013 09:20 WaveofShadow wrote: Thanks for that. Glad you identified that town is shit; I did that at the beginning of the game. The bolded is absolute horseshit. There is plenty to make reads on, it just depends on how useless and lazy one is. On September 30 2013 07:09 WaveofShadow wrote: This screams of horseshit btw. Just tell the truth. Lying as town sucks. On October 02 2013 01:54 WaveofShadow wrote: Also I will not be around for lynch so you guys had better fucking keep your votes on FT. None of these horseshit last second shenanigans. I'm going to have to read the CR/VA interaction a little bit more closely at some point because I feel I will be able to determine the D3 lynch from that. I highly doubt all of the power players around that conversation are all town. Shiao: bad town for bringing up new lynch in Mr CC with 4h or so to go, or scum? One of those things that seems unlikely for a scum to push a random mislynch so late in the day, but somehow I don't think Shiao would follow that rule. VE: DO SOMETHING. If anyone wants to talk to me about something specific I have about 30 min before I'm gone until well after deadline. On October 05 2013 10:29 WaveofShadow wrote: Wait what? My activity is framed defensively? Or that post? I've been on the fucking offense all game. You can't just pick and choose that one post and discount all of my activity because now I'm defending myself from suspicion. That's horseshit. On October 05 2013 11:12 VisceraEyes wrote: You guys spent way too much time together in that Aperture QTHe's saying he's one of "the most active posters" austin. He's saying that I'm scummy for pushing him. Do you believe this horseshit? | ||
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On October 05 2013 11:20 VayneAuthority wrote: WoS has posted more than cheese, CR, and at least in my head, solstice and oats. All under consideration.guess ill go "play" like FT, cheesecake, CR and the gang and not post at all, you seem to like hearing your own voice But this isn't an activity lynch at this point. We've got flips, we've got days of play, we've got SOME associations at this point. Is there another player in the maybe list that you think fits the bill for being on that scumteam better than WoS? Cuz you said Oats. But you didn't really get specific beyond Oat's activity. Anything else beyond that? On October 05 2013 05:48 VayneAuthority wrote: and I think oats is the last banger. Would explain palmar and his huge drop in activity. On October 05 2013 09:20 VayneAuthority wrote: yea oats makes sense to me as the last scum more then WoS. this isn't town oats regardless. he's quite active and going ham in that other game...notice how once SnB died that palmar and oats have dropped off the face of the earth. | ||
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On October 05 2013 11:28 VayneAuthority wrote: You surmise some dudes. If you know; you're mafia yourself really all the evidence you need. You were in nuclear, he just hides as scum. thats what he does. Add in the fact that its basically a process of elimination game (and I know 1 member more than you) and I don't really need to expand beyond that. In nuclear D2, scumOats missile defended scumAce. He didn't just hide all game, he did things that, if scumbuddies had flipped, would have made him look a bit wonky. Not like CR has been around after the lynch either, it's not an oats-specific thing. If you're saying oats is the likeliest 3rd member of that team SOLELY because he's been inactive but is active in another game, and inactive after the palmar lynch, that is not particularly convincing. | ||
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That's just a small look. | ||
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On October 05 2013 11:54 WaveofShadow wrote: (I still don't think oats is mafia. Also, he's totes not the third guy, at least not one what I went looking for so far)I'm sorry I had to tear up your association shit like that, Austin, I still <3 u. Promise. If you want you can try and peg me as a member of the other scumteam, but I'm sorry Oats/SnB/Palmar makes more sense than me. I was going to say that people would have more luck pinning CR as the third member, but that actually looks unlikely given his direct comments on Palmar. Like, in his case, he says Palmar might be good lynch candidate, but here is specifically why I don't want to lynch him, scenarios, what we learn. | ||
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On October 05 2013 12:04 WaveofShadow wrote: You have, bunches of people have. My oats read isn't based on association, it's just a couple things he said.Oats is 100% mafia. Whether he's on their team or not. Stop looking towards association for all of your shit. People have picked up on it at multiple points in the thread. A town Oats is wayyy more aggressive (to the point of idiocy), drops reads all over the fucking place, and most importantly PUSHES. Oats this game has done none of this, and blended into the background so scummily I had forgotten he was even IN the game at one point (and I think someone else mentioned that too). Just dropping questions here and there that go nowhere most of the game. I've stated all of this before, check my filter. But to the extent we're actively trying to hunt "third dude" and not "mafia", we kind of need to use associations there. Unless you know of a better way to figure out what team a specific scummy dude is on. | ||
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On October 05 2013 12:08 WaveofShadow wrote: Ya I'm not entirely sure. You haven't commented on my comments on your case though. Do you still believe I am that third member? Your read fluctuated between town, maybe scum, can't read, etc. etc. You can't go "Well if I were scum I wouldn't say I couldn't read him I would give him weak reads" because you also did that. A lot of the other stuff, the Palmar post (which I didn't even notice the year on) and the jokey past game stuff doesn't really matter, it's not the meat of anything, just neat stuff I found. What matters it the specific way you interacted with the possibility of a Palmar lynch. More than anyone else, you appeared to want to call Palmar scummy while NOT wanting to lynch him. Not because of a zealous fury to get VA lynched (Pandain), or whatever reason he had but who cares cuz he's town (VE), but because you just wanted to lynch other people instead that you found scummier. It's ENTIRELY possible that this is all a coincidence and Palmar's scumbuddy wasn't around or whatever. But it don't look good. Actions. Actions speak louder than words. Pretty much in terms of a scale of loudness, you're looking at actions > words > the whispers of soul-eating bears. | ||
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On October 05 2013 12:13 WaveofShadow wrote: Naw, I'm headed to bed soon and watching the VODs tomorrow so I don't have to wait 80000 hours for the first game to start and 20000 hours between each game.Look I'm watching League finals right now so I'll be around to some degree. If you want to talk and shoot some shit, I'm around. I don't think I have ever tried to be anything but transparent to people this game so at the very least I'd really like to shake this scumread people seem to have on me, but mostly I want town to win a game for once so we can always hunt some scum too. I am going to look more at some other filters tomorrow. Maybe someone else looks like they really fit the bill. Who knows? I will say that you are very unlikely to get any traction with me by arguing your own filter. I do think it makes you look scummy, and make you look associated with Palmar, and that snb's filter shows a possible associated with you as well. So I'm reading, I'm listening, but in a "I'm reading this but I also think this dude is mafia" way. If you're not third dude then third dude is someone else. Go find third dude (or other scum or whatevs). I'll be around some tomorrow and can chat then if you're on. | ||
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And yeah, it's a bit silly to tell you to solve the game. But whatever. Do what you want, make some posts, maybe get Oats to scumclaim if he's actually scum. If you're town, channel your post-lynch motivation and your inner-VA to get some correct reads and rub them in my face later (with the caveat that inner-VA refers to how much you relish rubbing something in someone else's face and not correctness of reads). Or some wrong reads and then rub then in my face. Or someone else's face. | ||
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On October 05 2013 13:02 s0Lstice wrote: Don't know! Probably cuz I'm chatting with someone I think is mafia? austin I still want to know why you are so slimy Or you're imagining things. Or I'm enjoying this game a little too much right at the moment. I will admit that I spent some time watching some episodes of Torchwood today that involved some sort of thing emitting some sort of slime. Also possible that you're picking up on the slime I was looking at earlier. | ||
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On October 05 2013 13:07 VisceraEyes wrote: (You have a towncheck)Because he demands actions speak for townies, but can't call me scum in spite of every action I take being anti-town. That's why. | ||
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On October 05 2013 13:13 VisceraEyes wrote: Sorry, yes. But townies also taking anti-town actions doesn't mean they don't matter at all. Still more likely to be from scum, and the particular way wave half-fought a Palmar lynch DOES matter imo. It's a sizeable entry on WoS's mafia christmas lynch.My point is that obviously your premise is flawed when you start from the actions to judge someone's towniness because every action I've taken has been anti-town and if you believe Koshi, you know I'm town. Townies take anti-town action every page of every game. On October 05 2013 13:45 s0Lstice wrote: I think you're ... stretching that. When I first read CC's unvote, I thought you were going way overboard, he unvoted the guy, is having a little fun, etc. I can see that comment as EITHER a joke or a nefarious unvote while still being suspicious. I'd like to hear what you think of this austin As far as the VE vs. oats thing goes, CC specifically says it was a test for Oats. I don't know that VE can fail a test that isn't for him. I do think that's worth noting that, even if CC is only concerned with Oat's reaction there, he doesn't appear to NOTICE that VE gets "caught" in the trap. If that makes sense. Not that VE fails and oats passes but the reads are wonky, but more that CC is tunneled in on what Oats does and doesn't notice if anyone else trips it. Not predetermined conclusions, but just...not a real test. Just a thing to do with Oats. | ||
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Like, you pull out a million Oats mentions Palmar bits, but you don't DO anything with them. Are you saying that Oats is mafia and on Palmar's mafia team? Because if you don't think that, then Oats mentioning Palmar a bunch doesn't really DO anything at all. And if you think he's on Palmar's team...that's a LOT of associating. Don't buy it. I think you look a bit scummier for the post on Oats, but then you go and poke at Ray who I would have on your team. Is curious. | ||
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On October 06 2013 00:29 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Someone give me one reason Oats is TOWN. On October 02 2013 23:53 Oatsmaster wrote: If Im FT in the position he is in, I would totally take a scumshot because it means someone better than me doesnt get shot. On October 02 2013 23:55 Oatsmaster wrote: lol its probably the nullest thing ive said all game. The towniest thing was when I called you cop I read these as very very townie comments. Spur of the moment, oddly joking about being scum (given that he was saying FT was scum). Not a super duper great one this late in the game, but those posts smelled townie. | ||
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On October 06 2013 00:28 Koshi wrote: oats/solstice/va/cheeseI am going to have to buss today and die tomorrow... Give me 3 targets please. Oats Pandain s0lstice ? Somewhere in there imo | ||
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On October 06 2013 00:37 WaveofShadow wrote: Waitwat VA and not me? Don't you have town on VA? On October 05 2013 04:29 austinmcc wrote: (Which is why we should lynch him. High five!) Palmar/WoS/solstice/CR/(VA or Cheese) is where I currently sit. LOOK AT MY MUSCULAR, CHISELED BACK TOWN. LOOK AT IT. DO YOU NOT WANT TO HOP ON? Perhaps tomorrow, or perhaps later Koshi revelations will clear something neat up. | ||
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On October 06 2013 00:45 VisceraEyes wrote: austin we're done if you're scum son. WE'RE DONE IF YOU'RE SCUM SON ![[image loading]](http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8rrl5kXRb1rno7r9o1_400.png) | ||
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On October 06 2013 01:01 VayneAuthority wrote: My view on that scumteam is understandably biased but:pandain did the same thing with palmar. How unlikely do you guys think a pandain/austin/s0lstice team is? Only reason im iffy is because that involves 2 replacements, which kinda messes with you. I hate replacements. You're suggesting a scumteam of which 2 members pushed hard AGAINST a FT lynch yesterday. You're suggesting a scumteam of which 1 member attempted to push the lynch specifically onto scum You're suggesting that all but 1 of you/wos/oats/CR/cheesecake is town Narp. | ||
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On October 06 2013 01:12 VayneAuthority wrote: Palmar being on the other scumteam still relevant. Scum needs EVERYONE dead. But they'd really really like to keep the other scumteam alive, that's a bonus 1 KP. Game is balanced around 2 scumteams, and the moment 1 is gone, the other scumteam has a difficult time. (Hopefully!). I don't, and this is a thought I should back up by looking at yesterday and seeing who else was kinda iffy on Palmar, think that Scumteam Not Palmar/SnB really wants to lynch Palmar over a townie.you're suggesting that any of those things matter. Palmar was on the other scumteam how is that relevant? Defending a modkill makes you look bad, not good. I just made a giant post on how pandain loves to "save townies" as scum. and yes I think everyone is town there except WoS/oats so I suppose I have one wrong. dunno if it's you or s0lstice though. And in my head, Scumteam B KNOWS Palmar is scum, because he's not hunting them at all and he's doing nothing. They could tell all game whether he was actually pressuring any of them or not. You may have posted all about how pandain loves to save townies as scum. I don't. If I'm scum, I generally like me some dead townies. And it's not about "saving a townie." It's about "saving a townie AND lynching scum." There's a huge difference between being able to save Townie A and lynch Townie B vs saving a townie AND lynching scum. One gets you a little cred with someone, makes you look nice when Townie A flips. The other is ACTIVELY putting yourself in a less-favorable position numerically on hopes that the cred makes up for it. | ||
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On October 06 2013 01:12 WaveofShadow wrote: SnB posted that Palmar was scum. SnB asked people to vote him. Yeah, it's some bussing, but he never actually got Palmar lynched, and he didn't super push it. Yeah I wouldn't be so quick to narp. I KNOW one of those 5 is town, and I strongly suspect two more of them are. If Vayne is also town where does that put the final scum members if only Oats is scum on that list? As far as pushing goes, hey remember when we said the scumtams probably wouldn't be bussing this game? (Or at least I thought so?) That's been proven wrong. Can you look me in the belly button and tell me that you think SnB's read and push on Palmar are equivalent to my read and push on Palmar? | ||
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On October 06 2013 01:22 WaveofShadow wrote: It 6000% DOES matter. "My scumbuddy is scum" and "My scumbuddy is scum and we should LYNCH HIM WHY AREN'T YOU LYNCHING HIM DON'T LYNCH OTHER GUY LYNCH MY SCUMBUDDY" are two different things. And WoS knows this.Doesn't matter, a bus is a bus. SnB's push was pretty decent for what it was. It had me fooled into an early townread on him. So what about me ACTIVELY putting myself in a horrible position if I knew how FT was going to flip? Also I really want to discuss my townread on solstice but I can't do so nicely without revealing why I think so, and if I do I won't be able to use that towntell anymore. VA why do you think solstice is scum specifically? Your D3 isn't applicable there. VA says pandain loves to save townies as scum. Actually, what I wrote doesn't apply to pandain as much so I'm going to drop that. But that bit doesn't apply to you. You didn't try and save a townie and vote mafia. You tried to lynch a townie, then maybe save a townie and lynch someone else but not palmar. We don't know yet what your alternate choice will flipz. | ||
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On October 06 2013 01:33 VayneAuthority wrote: And yet we've got a couple folks saying they KNOW x or y is town. I actually don't think he's scum as of now, Im just throwing out scumteams that make sense to me in my head, you can ignore it if you want. It would show why pandain is being defended by austin, austin is specifically zoned in on s0lstice as a lurker when there are plenty of others, and why s0lstice really hasn't an impact on the game. It makes sense to me in my head but I don't think its necessarily correct. I don't like austin's post about one team knowing that palmar is scum, that doesn't sit well with me and is shoddy reasoning. You can't KNOW anyone is scum until they flip. bad austin, bad. I think that if you look from the outside, if you're a scumteam and you see Palmar not doing anything D2 and D3, and not attacking anyone on your team, possibly just always saying he hasn't read them or blah blah, you can....INTUIT STRONGLY or whatever other phrase you'd prefer (yes, know is a slight exaggeration) that Palmar is on the other scum team. You both know that he's not trying AND when he posts lists your team is off em. Given that info, you SHOULD be assuming he's other scumteam. Heck, you should be assuming he's scum and you know he's not on your team, the fact that he might be avoiding attacking your team is cherry. | ||
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On October 06 2013 01:40 WaveofShadow wrote: We can argue about thist postgame if you're town. But I don't think it's a stupid argument and I DO think that each scumteam would be trying to figure out who the other team was, and that Palmar should have been on the non-Palmar team's list right up at the tippy top.The only people we KNOW are Koshi/Rayn/VE and that's because we had no counterclaim. So technically no, we don't KNOW, but it's pretty fucking close, and it's well within the power of someone in this game to correct us if we are wrong. You also can't predict how other people will interpret certain levels of play at all, so this is kind of a stupid argument. If you could predict that then wouldn't scumhunting be a shit ton less difficult in general? | ||
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On October 06 2013 01:46 Oatsmaster wrote: Oats. I still kind of sort of think you're town. Please do some super townie stuff or something if you're town. Ok so something about CR. Palmar kept calling him the towniest town ever(Slight exaggeration). What can you conclude from that Austin? I don't think we conclude anything off of that. IF WoS isn't the third member of that team, CR is a decent option, but honestly I read more into what CR wrote about Palmar than what Palmar wrote about CR. Go look at CR's post D2 where he goes through the permutations of VA/Palmar/SnB/FT scumteams. He concludes overall that Palmar is scummy but the worst lynch for information-gathering reasons. THAT is something I like much more as a connection than what Palmar says about CR. | ||
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On October 06 2013 01:53 s0Lstice wrote: Iz only smellzyea austin I think I want to kill you this thing you have going with Wave reeks bad | ||
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On October 06 2013 02:20 s0Lstice wrote: Look at his past games. Look at his posts this one. Chairman Ray is actually a bit of a sticking point for me. He is lynchbait typically as I understand it. I'm having a lot of difficulty rationalizing the town points this post gets due to the timing (no pressure on him, some creative thoughts, some carelessly wrong thoughts), with his overall apathy in participating in key events in the thread as they happen. I just have no idea what to do with this guy. There are less, they're generally very well-constructed and almost never spur of the moment little comments. He rarely sticks around. A lot of his scumhunting is bolstered by ... events, by votes, by flips, by something other than just filters. It's not just that he's not doing these weird votes to try and make something happen and out mafia, he's OVERLY cautious, very apologetic, and never just straight sitting down and scumhunting. To the extent you like disappearing after lynch, as some other people have mentioned in this thread, as a scumtell, CR not only hasn't been around but this is, as best I can tell, the first time he's seen a scum lynch on TL. In both other games he was a D1 mislynch. In this game, SnB flips scum and CR's response is: On October 04 2013 12:35 Chairman Ray wrote: Palmar flips scum and CR's response is:Hey I'm back now, and I did a quick read through the thread. Definitely impressed by all the reads and information people have been giving. You guys are definitely carrying me here .On October 05 2013 05:37 Chairman Ray wrote: There is no joy in mudville. Ok, I was totally wrong about the association thing. Looks like SnB and Palmer did cut their ties to be meta. Unlucky for them, it didn't save Palmer lol. Combine that with the fact that there's a limited pool of possible mafia players, and he's mafia. | ||
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CR lives through D1 for the first time. CR sees scum flip while in game for the first time. He's on his way towards winning the game with his beloved townies, GO TOWN GO TOWN GO TOWN. But instead we get a "thanks for carrying me"/no mention, and a CSI Miami-worthy sunglasses comment. | ||
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On October 06 2013 02:35 s0Lstice wrote: It is, I'm just saying it goes deeper than that. Look at the rest of his sizeable posts where he gives reads or votes. - + Show Spoiler +I would say the quote of his I put there is pretty exemplary of the bolded. You do not think so? On September 28 2013 18:01 Chairman Ray wrote: Vote on koshi bolstered by long post and lots of RNG / what would I do as koshi if mafia/town chat. Lots of RNG, lots of hypothetical, less about HERE IS WHAT KOSHI DID AND THIS THING IS SCUMMY VOTE VOTE.Oh, only 11 hours left. I definitely won't be here tomorrow for endgame, so I'm gonna stay up late tonight to try to catch up. I've lightly skimmed through posts so far, and I take it that Koshi is winning votes because of RNG? Filtering through his posts, it's pretty clear that he's aggravated by this decision by town. I'm gonna put myself in his shoes for a sec. If I was town, and everyone was gonna RNG lynch me, then I would just be like wtf... I definitely wouldn't be angry since it's not due to my own lack of skill or other people's misreads, but sheer luck instead. Once I flip town, then the townies will just feel really stupid for doing it and I'd be okay with that. Now what if I was in Koshi's shoes and I was mafia? I would probably be a bit aggravated to push town off me, and if I flip red, then people will probably celebrate at my expense. But the thing is that I am not Koshi, so I don't share his feelings or thought process, so this read might be off. To people that have played with Koshi before, would you expect this kind of behavior from town or mafia Koshi? I definitely think that by his behavior, he is more likely mafia. Another thing that's consistent with Koshi being mafia is that there are others trying to save him. If Koshi were town, then it could be possible that there is no effort to save him, light effort to save him, or heavy effort to save him. Anything is possible. If Koshi were mafia, I would bet that his mafia buddies wouldn't give up on him so easily, especially on D1. Since the RNG thing is so stupid, then his mafia buddies could easily make a case for it and not seem scummy in the process. So if Koshi were mafia, I would bet that there is some heavy effort to save him. Right now, we do see some heavy effort, in the form of the yamato train. Although this could happen if Koshi was either town or mafia, I suspect it is more likely if he were mafia. Because of these reasons, I think there's a good chance that Koshi is actually scum, and we got really lucky with the RNG. Just for now ##Vote: Koshi I will be up for a bit more reading through posts. I would like to think about it a bit more before leaving for the night with a read that came from RNG. On September 30 2013 07:43 Chairman Ray wrote: Springboarding off BH kill into minor-BH-flip-reliant reads.I've been looking over the thread a bit, especially at the BH kill. It's possible that he got killed by both mafia, or just one mafia, or got shot by the police. However I don't think police would shoot someone on the first night, especially not BH. I would just narrow it down to one or both mafia teams shooting BH. If only one of them shot BH, then the other either did a drive by or got vested. I think we should try to determine if one of the scum teams did a drive by, because that would give us really good information going into day 3. If someone comes out and says they vested and it blocked a shot, we can confirm that neither of the scum teams have 2 KP. As for killing BH, from reading the thread, I think BH was killed by someone who had some sort of relation to him. Most of BH's posts were about the whole RNG thing. If I was scum, I wouldn't shoot BH in hopes that he wastes more time on d2. This leads me to believe that the scum team that shot BH wasn't just 3 lurkers, and at least one of them had to have some strong interaction with BH. So I think there are three possible motives: 1. BH was shot because he was strongly pushing against FT and this kill was to protect FT. This kill also really puts the spotlight on FT, but at the same time that's also a reason scum could use to make FT seem innocent. In the end, it becomes an endless chain or circular logic that we can't really look into. The simplest solution is that this kill really benefited FT, and I think FT looks scummy because of it. 2. BH was shot so that a discussion can be made around FT, which creates a diversion from someone else who already looks kinda scummy. If this were true, it would also be consistent with my read that the scum team isn't 3 lurkers with no relation to BH. I would need to read more into the thread to see who could be scum in this case. 3. Near the end, BH was giving a strong townread on palmer. Palmer was active at this point. BH might have been killed so to give his townread on palmer more credibility. This gives Palmer an incentive to kill BH if he was scum. However, looking through his filter, I actually think Palmer is quite town, so I dunno here. One other thing I am willing to gamble on is that Palmer and FirmTofu cannot be in the same scum team. Killing BH would draw way too much unnecessary attention on them, and also it would be really weird for them to kill BH when he's giving a scumread on one of them and a townread on the other. I don't think they would kill BH even to be meta. Right now I'm going to be looking more into FT. However, I don't want to vote him this early on simply because he's the easiest target, and if he flips town, it will not put us in a good position. On September 30 2013 08:38 Chairman Ray wrote: One of a few uncomplicated, normal "I think this guy is scum for reasons within his filter."Looking through filters, I am a bit concerned about ShiaoPi. He was pretty active on D1, but most of his activity was just one liners to get people to go through with the RNG lynch and a couple short posts shrugging off FT analysis as lynchbait. He's obviously active, and has a lot of mafia experience, so I would expect a lot more analysis or reads coming from him (unless this is what he does every game). I'm liking the FT lynch a lot more now, because it may tell us something about ShiaoPi. On October 01 2013 14:00 Chairman Ray wrote: This is a vote, and for in-thread reasons, and some other reads for in-thread reasons. But he lumps it ALL together, packaged up, and only responds to Vayne attacking that post hard. Like, he makes some reads, but they are in a single, solitary post, jumbled with a vote, and the vote is just a single thing tacked onto all the reads. It's not so much the MEAT of the post.Hey I'm back from work. I spent some time catching up on this thread, and I would like to give the few reads I have right now. I think it's safe to say that FirmTofu and ShiaoPi are not associated. I say this because FirmTofu is strongly going on ShiaoPi. If those two were of the same mafia faction, using bussing as a strategy is pointless since we have two mafia factions. All that's gonna happen is one being lynched tonight and the other the next night. Because of this, I'm going to assume they are not associated. Between FirmTofu and ShiaoPi, I like FirmTofu a lot more. Now that he's under a lot of pressure, instead of spending all his efforts explaining himself, he's trying to find better scum targets. He posted some good reads on ShiaoPi and myself. If FirmTofu goes after some of the really good players here, that would really show me he's town, because mafia would probably try to redirect the lynch onto the easiest targets. So I think there's still a good chance FirmTofu will flip scum, but overall, his last few pages still gave me better confidence. ##Unvote My strongest townread right now are on Koshi and austin. I think Koshi may be town because of the way he's playing. If he were mafia, after almost getting lynched the first day, the natural response would be to compensate by looking overly town. Looking through his filter, he's actually playing similarly to D1. I don't see any longposts, or tunneling, or strong reads on people. It's as if he doesn't need to prove that he's town. This reads pretty town to me. I think austin is town just because he's being very active right now without any obligation. Whoever the other replacement is still hasn't really been active yet, and there are a couple lurkers, so if he posts very little, he still wouldn't risk being lynched or shot. Additionally, he seems very caught up in the thread. If I were mafia, I would probably skim through pages at most, and tell people that I'm catching up, just so nobody expects me to do much. I think another person that looks kinda scummy to me is VayneAuthority. His last few posts were just complaining about lurkers and lack of contribution, and also a couple images. I think that if a town wanted more activity and information, he would start being more active himself, and pressure people to give information. Merely complaining about people lurking, or the general lack of activity in this thread doesn't actually make things better, plus, it also demoralizes townies. It really sets an alarm off for me when he says that he's "fine just chillin' until we lose". I think he's saying these things because he's mafia, and he's trying to give us an excuse to let him be passive. ##Vote VayneAuthority On October 04 2013 13:05 Chairman Ray wrote: Some in thread reasons, but again bolstered by "oh yeah but he might be town except even if he's town we should lynch him anyway."Alright, I just read through some stuff again, and I think I agree with some of Pandain's analysis. It's pretty clear to me now that VA is the best target to lynch today. VA persisted to do everything that I criticized him of earlier on. Plus, he also called out WoS a couple times for using ad hom. I think someone with VA's personality would be completely impervious to any sort of ad hom, and I think it's another way to redirect the discussion onto something else - a strategy that he is quite good at. So my scumread on VA is stronger now than before. However there is still the possibility that VA is town though, and everything we've seen so far is exactly how he plays. But even in this scenario, we should still lynch VA. The reason is because we should not allow town to intentionally play very scummy and very unproductive. What if VA gets scum in a future game? What if nobody lynches him just because they can't read him? What is he going to contribute to town? We probably shouldn't let his playstyle be allowed to foster, so I'm gonna put my vote on him instead of FT. ##unvote ##Vote: VayneAuthority Compare them to the two other games, where he has some shorter suspicions, posts about THIS GUY IS MAFIA BECAUSE X, THE END, NO MORE READS, and it looks a little scummier. He may have been told not to be a sneaky snake, but his posts are different in structure and in...objective here. Rarely just scumreads/scumhunting, and again, super prepackaged. | ||
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On October 06 2013 02:39 WaveofShadow wrote: Nope. One of you is the likely third broseph. I don't believe that the two of you are associated.Look who doesn't want to address the fact that I called him scummmmmmm And yeah nothing that you just said about CR can't be explained by the fact that he is simply still newbie town. I don't see any difference at all between this game and Noire aside from less activity here. Again I will admit that he may have to be looked at AT SOME POINT---in fact I kind of like VA's way of going about it. If he's here and posting we'll be able to determine what he's about one way or another. Oh shit Austin I'm soft defending someone you think is scum! QUICK ASSOCIATIONS GOGO! | ||
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I guess he could also not be MADE of chairs, but some sort of chair-weapon-using Mega Man robot. | ||
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On October 06 2013 02:52 WaveofShadow wrote: Hi WoS. Do you think this is a rational thing to think:Ok so CR is third member despite the fact that he blatantly told everyone in thread he was defending Palmar? Really? If it has to be one of us, then it would have to be me. Palmar is on a 3-man scumteam. SnB is already dead. The third member of that team does NOT want Palmar lynched, but is worried that it may happen, and can't come out too strongly against. He's worried that they're the last two bros and if Palmar goes down, he needs to not look like he hard defended his scumbuddy. Rational? It's an assumption, but I think it's logical. IF that's the case, you and CR both exhibit similar behavior. Palmar is scum, but I'd rather lynch x. Whereas you say can't read can't read can't read maybe scum can't read but rather lynch x, CR just says "I think he and this dude are scum, here's why I'd prefer to lynch this other dude." In both cases, you're not OPPOSING the Palmar lynch, and not townreading him, but you're trying to undermine it. Plus, I don't actually see a real "I want to defend Palmar statement", except this "Right now, I think I'm gonna put my vote on FT since there isn't that big a benefit lynching VA over him, and plus, I wanna save Palmer" which [i]is at the end of a post in which he never quite calls Palmar scum or town. | ||
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On October 06 2013 02:59 s0Lstice wrote: Two scumteams can mess with some of his association-hunting from last game, except only between teams. Effectively, there are two newbie-size-game scumteams here, so if he's hunting for associations in a 3 man team he can also do it here.Talk to me about how there being two scum teams this game could be a fly in the ointment as far as this is concerned. I've been over this in my own head and it doesn't seem you have considered it.. Otherwise, I'll be honest, I don't know what you're getting at. | ||
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On October 06 2013 03:02 WaveofShadow wrote: No, I don't find "I want to save Palmar" in the same post as "Palmar might be town or might be scum" and "I am cool lynching these people but think Palmar provides the least information if lynched" to be a "glaring fucking statement" of not-on-the-same-teaminess. Nope nope nope.You have been making way too many behavioural assumptions and associations this game. You really don't find 'I WANT TO SAVE PALMAR' a glaring fucking statement of him not being on the same team as Palmar? If you honestly think that a newbie is going to play a game with experienced scumteam members and not only NOT be fucking paranoid as all hell about revealing anything related to his team, but also not check his posting and plan with his scumteam before doing it, I don't know what to say to you. You're all worried about how 'constructed' all of CR's posting is. Do you think Palmar would have been ok with CR stating in thread I WANNA SAVE YOU? So ridiculous that I even need to explain this. I'm out for now. May or may not be around at deadline. If I die (doubtful as all hell): Austin/Oats first. Maybe Pandain/VA. Don't know about newbie in game with experienced scumteam. I played my first scum game with HiroPro, and he did a little coaching but mainly yelling at me not to do dumb stuff and pointing out when I did. I'm not experienced yet from that side of things, but we did a little coaching of Felkyr who had never been scum before when we were in Aperture 3. He checked a good bit and we coached a decent amount. I don't think that's across-the-board, and this is also someone who, based on what I've heard, has also played IRL mafia and maybe a couple times on another forum? Wave you silly. | ||
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On October 06 2013 03:09 s0Lstice wrote: First sentence troof. Second sentence I can understand that, but a lot of that seems to be a disagreement with my reads and I think how I'm pushing them. What if they turn out to be correct?yea well we haven't been on the same page much since the very start when we both replaced in. the way you treated me looked town but thats about all the warm fuzzies you've given me. oats/cc/austin all good lynches Third sentence very sadface. | ||
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On October 06 2013 03:34 s0Lstice wrote: Elsewhere like CR and WoS. Oats not awful, but an option. Cheese not awful, but an option. Not sure where they rank right now in relation to VA, still think pandain looks townie for yesterday. I assume I can't add you to your list, not sure where you rank right at the moment.elsewhere where? there is just not enough room for 4 more mafia amongst my current set of reads. rationalizing your weird behavior with those constraints is legitimizing my suspicions of you. I don't really think I'm just being paranoid now. This is the epitome of a feels read. I think CR is town, too. Doubt over. | ||
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I eliminate myself. Pandain I eliminate Pandain, you can see why in my filter, but overall it's the effort and the push just to try and save a townie. IF VA flips mafia, look at Pandain and see whether you think he's town or bussing, but I think anyone who pushes super hard to lynch Pandain without knowing whether VA is mafia or not is RIDIKKEROUS/mafia. + Show Spoiler + Anyone who pushes Pandain RIGHT NOW is saying he's mafia, putting on a big show, trying to get town points for saving a townie (WITHIN THIS GAME). But here's the thing, what they're NOT saying is that he tried to push the lynch on VA. He didn't just say "Don't lynch FT." He ALSO said "lynch VA." THIS IS IMPORTANT. Anyone who doesn't mention this, doesn't factor this in, isn't really viewing Pandain fully. Just consider this, would your read on Pandain change based on VA's flip? If so, if you think Pandain fits the full team remaining, then VA flipping scum would mean Pandain probably HARD bussing VA, actively pushing him for lynch. I don't like that scenario. So more than just generally thinking Pandain is town for his D3 play, I think that a push on Pandain is crappy/somewhat suspicious if people aren't looking at VA as well. ESPECIALLY anyone scummy on VA but also pushing Pandain, if anyone fits that bill (I haven't checked right now), then they are VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY SCUMMY. Look at all those very-s. So for me, Pandain. Great. Now we're down to 2/4. Oats Oats is sitting on his ass doing next-to-nothing. He's EITHER mafia or sweet sweet mislynch material. But the line between the two is thin. Both sides are legitimate. Don't lynch him tomorrow, please please please. I'm assuming at this point that, either way, he doesn't redeem himself. I both still have him on the slightly townie side of the line because of his posting AND think that if you ask yourself, WWMD, oats is a prime prime prime mislynch target. Make them work for a mislynch. Pull the rug out, make them find someone else, someone that hasn't been primed with bits and bits of suspicion and who can be argued about. It's way too easy to call oats mafia right now. IF oats is town, force mafia to work at getting someone else lynched. If he's mafia, there are 4 of em, find another on. Oats too cheery and too playful with Palmar on D1 to be on that team. Cheesecake's post was BUTT because IF oats is town, that's exactly what mafia needs to do. Point to all the times oats utters the word "Palmar", without adding any context, and without realizing that HOLY CRAP THAT'S A LOT OF MENTIONS AND A LOT OF DIRECT ASSOCIATION AND MAYBE THIS IS NOT A TEAM. I think it's low-hanging fruit that, when picked, tastes like poopoo fruit. And cheesecake picked that poopoo fruit and tried to feed it to you. Don't eat the poopoo fruit. Oats probably town, maybe mafia, but overall just not what should happen TOMORROW, and not on Palmar's team. If ANYTHING, oats's posts on D1 if he's mafia show he's other team, because of how he's goading Palmar and rayn into flinging shit at each other. Neither on his team, he doesn't care, lynch either of em or get em to argue, no skin off his back. Just keep fanning the flames between em and enjoy. If he's mafia, he's non-Palmar. And really, he's got some townie-minded posts, he says throwaway crap like this: On October 05 2013 03:30 Oatsmaster wrote: Yo! Im not scum. I Still kinda wanna lynch CR for being so totally clean with his posts and saying a lotta weird shit inside. he's town on my list. *********HEY HEY IF I DIE AND THEN OATS DIES AND HE IS TOWN YOU NEED TO REMEMBER THIS POST. OATS, IF TOWN, = EASY MISLYNCH. LOOK FOR THE PEOPLE THAT ALL OF A SUDDEN START PUSHING HIM AND MAYBE AVOIDING OTHER PEOPLE YOU'VE SEEN FLIP MAFIA************ Down to 1/4 WoS Everyone is reading his posts overnight and going "So town." Yeah, they look townie. But he's played an entire game, not just tonight. Look at his Palmar read. Look at his actions right before the Palmar lynch. He can't read Palmar. Over and over and over can't read can't read. Except he DOES have these weak leanings, when really pushed he'll say think town, thought town now a little scummier, etc. etc. It's not that he can't read Palmar, it's a mix of "I'm not good at Palmar, but here's what I think, but maybe I'm wrong, who knows, not gonna bother, etc. etc. etc." It's a scummy way of dealing with a read on Palmar. And AT lynch time, he's calling Palmar scum but trying to shunt the lynch away. Again, I don't care how townie he looks right now. That is scummy scummyumpkins. However, here's the deal. I like him way more as THIRD SCUM than I do as other team. I think? So DO NOT LYNCH HIM TOMORROW IF I DIE. If he's not third scum, he suddenly looks a good bit less scummy (I think!? Other team still probably doesn't want Palmar lynched if they can help it). Don't go for him tomorrow. If you find third scum, re-evaluate. Make him keep working. CR Oh yeah lynch this dude tomorrow. He's not been newbie. He's been near useless, despite getting lynched for contributions in other game that people found scummy. His posts all avoid direct scumhunting. He never casually posts. Lynch this dude. Lynch him. I RAN OUT OF TIME BOLLOCKS. If Oats town, cheese scum. That one post does it. SOME OTHER PEOPLE ARE ALSO SCUM THIS POST SUCKS SO MUCH AS A LAST MINUTE POST WTF | ||
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Koshi, you were serious about shooting Oats? As in, he's either town or SCUM, AHEAD OF TIME, USED KP TO PUT A VEST ON HIM? Also, we need two things. Anyone who got shot needs to claim. We count claims, expect POSSIBLE fakes, and lynch some scum today. | ||
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Post serious. I think Cheese is on the NOT palmar team, 10000000% I think CR or WoS is on the palmar team. I think we have a lot of stuff to mine from the last couple days, people who suddenly jump on the oats train. | ||
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koshi, couldn't oats just use bulletproof vest on himself? seems the most logical if he is the last scum by himself.Precision Shot: if aimed at an unprotected townie, the shot will not fire and be refunded. Koshi knows whether vest or no vest based on refund. | ||
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On October 06 2013 05:27 VayneAuthority wrote: I'm sorry. Why was this a horrible shot? And what do you believe he should have done differently?that is why that was a horrible shot koshi. I expected better tbh! | ||
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On October 06 2013 05:34 austinmcc wrote: I'm sorry. Why was this a horrible shot? And what do you believe he should have done differently? | ||
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On October 06 2013 05:48 VayneAuthority wrote: So you think he should have shot someone else?I thought that the bulletproof vest made it so that cop couldn't tell the difference between town/mafia I misread it. and oats was a prime bulletproof target You think that, as "a prime bulletproof target", oats was LIKELY to pass up KP in order to bulletproof himself? Like, either you think he's the last MCB (which you apparently said), but would rather bulletproof himself than kill someone OR drive by. Or you think he's on the other team, and you think they'd rather bulletproof oats than do something else. And you think all this DESPITE koshi saying this: On October 05 2013 01:09 Koshi wrote: Well, I don't want us to forget about FT tbh. He is still a good lynch and will never be useful ever. And cops can't shoot people anymore D: And never even hinting that he COULD shoot or would shoot until the deadline. Like, on the minute. You are suggesting, just by mentioning "prime bulletproof target", that oats would sac KP to bulletproof OR his team would bulletproof over something else, just so that IF koshi were lying and IF koshi shot oats he would not die (but would still be outed as scum)? | ||
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Remove solstice or wos from my old list, expand to BOTH cc and VA. VA/cc/CR/(solstice or wos) | ||
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On October 06 2013 06:06 VayneAuthority wrote: Lose from what!?if you have one player left, yes the most obvious thing to do is to bulletproof your last member so you don't outright lose. The cop said he couldn't shoot. So you're not protecting yourself from the cop. The other scumteam? The other scumteam is starting to feel some pressure. They REALLY do not want to shoot scum, because then there's only one KP at night. They have THREE confirmed townies to shoot at. Why in the world would they shoot oats over a confirmed townie, especially if they think he might be mafia (and a lot of people did)? They choose to NOT shoot a confirmed townie in order to shoot a guy that might be town or scum but isn't a threat either way? | ||
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How feelest thou about this Oats bit? Rayn you tooooooooo. | ||
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On October 06 2013 06:16 WaveofShadow wrote: Only someone else being a cop and not counterclaiming for no raisin.What are the chances Koshi is somehow scum and fucking everyone over? Is there ANYTHING that makes this possible? I'm thinking not; I just want to be 100% sure we can trust that we have all of these confirmed townies. Or a bastard setup. | ||
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On October 06 2013 06:33 s0Lstice wrote: As I see things, sacrificing KP to vest oneself is silly.whats this with vayne now austin? maybe im being dumb but I'm not seeing how what he's saying is more scum than crazy Read the posts, but tl;dr is: VA says Oats is a "prime bulletproof target", that the shot was bad, and that scumOats would have bulletproofed Koshi said he had no shot. Right until the last minute, it was POSSIBLE he was being tricksy but seemed unlikely given how open he's been about his actions. GODDAMN I CANNOT TL;DR TO SAVE MY LIFE So the only shots that mafia would be EXPECTING are from scum (1) If oats is on the three-man team...WHY DOES THE ONE MAN TEAM SHOOT HIM? There are confirmed townies. There's the chance to get a drive-by the next night. Oats is a possible mislynch. WHY WOULD THE ONE DUDE SHOOT OATS? Makes no sense. (2) If oats is on the one-man team...WHY DOES THE THREE MAN TEAM SHOOT OATS? Same thing. Confirmed townies. Drive-by option. GREAT MISLYNCH. WHY SHOOT OATS? Fact is, nobody thought Koshi had a shot. It was a paranoid thought, perhaps, for those of us super paranoid, but never even DISCUSSED or HINTED AT. So the only shots expected last night were mafia. And VA is suggesting that MAFIA OATS would have been a great target for a MAFIA SHOT, so much so that OATS WOULD HAVE BULLETPROOFED JUST IN CASE, SACCING KP TO DO SO. Mafia, of either team, have NO INCENTIVE TO SHOOT TOWN OATS. HE IS A GREAT MISLYNCH. HE'S CLEARLY BEING SET UP YESTERDAY. MAFIA WOULD NOT SHOOT OATS EVARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR. | ||
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silly designed to undermine koshi A STATEMENT INDICATING THAT HE IS DISAPPOINTED THAT KOSHI WOULD SHOOT OATS WHEN WE NOW KNOW THAT OATS IS TOWN WHICH IS A GOOD THING. GOOD THINGS ARE GOOD AND MAKE US HAPPY. GOOD THINGS MAKE SCUM SAD. | ||
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On October 06 2013 06:46 VayneAuthority wrote: Read. Filter. + Show Spoiler +now please address how you still think pandain tunneling me and protecting FT makes him town when I have proven the exact opposite to be true. still waiting on that On October 04 2013 08:23 austinmcc wrote: Pandain looks townier for all this jazz. Even if he's trying to hard defend FT, he's putting a lot of work into it for 0 reward. That feels townie. I like VE lynch. I like Palmar lynch. I like solstice posting more. I still don't like Koshi. VE and Palmar both fall under similar rubrick, where they are active at times (VE D1, Palmar part of D1, time to argue with Rayn) but generally absent and not affecting the game at all. They've got bulletproof vests (unless they're scum). Palmar smells with his being entirely ambivalent about the lynch, never pushing anything, and generally just sitting in the background. VE smells for basically doing jack, smells slightly slightly slightly for pushing Hiro so hard but that could be perfectly legitimate, but generally just being a nothingmaster. Palmar also generally absent as far as DOING things goes, being more than just a presence. Some activity D1, some fighting with Rayn, but otherwise just ambivalence about a lynch and ambivalence about the game in general. In the interest of having only one Pa- poster ##vote: Palmar I think that leaving votes on FT and just mucking about "maybe FT maybe not FT" is a bad way to spend this day (Just like it was a bad way for me to afk 24 hours of it). If we just chat about FT and argue about him, we're losing a day and I honestly think that's a mislynch. FT has done diddly in response to pressure, yes. It makes him look worse, yes. But I don't actually think he's scum, and even if he is, there are....other scum? It's more productive to chase other scum right now, imo, if that makes sense. Solstice, keep posting. On October 04 2013 08:30 austinmcc wrote: He's not even hard defending though, he's hard defending WITH VIGOR. I don't know pandain's play from Adam's, but in general I find someone who's going back to past games and posting about them, actually using them, as well as posting this much and this hard about someone, to be a townie thang. Especially when he's getting NO traction with it, there's currently no payoff, nobody talking with him, nobody to convince, it's just posting a read into a vacuum and hoping to do something with it. You find it defending el scumbuddiero? Or just a ton of activity on a single subject concerning a read you disagree with? On October 05 2013 05:31 austinmcc wrote: I do not want to kill Pandain next. While he did try and skirt Palmar as the alternative to FT, he put in so much fanatical work that I think he would have given up sooner/done less as scum. On October 05 2013 09:35 austinmcc wrote: Scum may defend townies for points, but scum defending FT THAT hard is something I don't see. Once you call him town, try to push FT = town for a bit, you've done your job as scum. Pandain's posts on FT are so over-the-top and so constant that I really don't like him for scum. On October 05 2013 10:22 austinmcc wrote: If Pandain were scum, and a MCB no less, then this would be QUITE out of place: Based on a faulty vote count of mine, he voted/unvoted so that Palmar would get lynched over FT (at the time). On October 06 2013 05:00 austinmcc wrote: Okay. Some thoughts in case I get double-stacked. Koshi/VE/Rayn town means 8 unknowns. Of those 8 unknown, 4 are mafia. For every townie, you can remove yourself, you're looking at 3 townies/4 mafia remaining. 1 mafia flying solo now, one full team. I eliminate myself. Pandain I eliminate Pandain, you can see why in my filter, but overall it's the effort and the push just to try and save a townie. IF VA flips mafia, look at Pandain and see whether you think he's town or bussing, but I think anyone who pushes super hard to lynch Pandain without knowing whether VA is mafia or not is RIDIKKEROUS/mafia. + Show Spoiler + Anyone who pushes Pandain RIGHT NOW is saying he's mafia, putting on a big show, trying to get town points for saving a townie (WITHIN THIS GAME). But here's the thing, what they're NOT saying is that he tried to push the lynch on VA. He didn't just say "Don't lynch FT." He ALSO said "lynch VA." THIS IS IMPORTANT. Anyone who doesn't mention this, doesn't factor this in, isn't really viewing Pandain fully. Just consider this, would your read on Pandain change based on VA's flip? If so, if you think Pandain fits the full team remaining, then VA flipping scum would mean Pandain probably HARD bussing VA, actively pushing him for lynch. I don't like that scenario. So more than just generally thinking Pandain is town for his D3 play, I think that a push on Pandain is crappy/somewhat suspicious if people aren't looking at VA as well. ESPECIALLY anyone scummy on VA but also pushing Pandain, if anyone fits that bill (I haven't checked right now), then they are VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY SCUMMY. Look at all those very-s. So for me, Pandain. Great. Now we're down to 2/4. Oats Oats is sitting on his ass doing next-to-nothing. He's EITHER mafia or sweet sweet mislynch material. But the line between the two is thin. Both sides are legitimate. Don't lynch him tomorrow, please please please. I'm assuming at this point that, either way, he doesn't redeem himself. I both still have him on the slightly townie side of the line because of his posting AND think that if you ask yourself, WWMD, oats is a prime prime prime mislynch target. Make them work for a mislynch. Pull the rug out, make them find someone else, someone that hasn't been primed with bits and bits of suspicion and who can be argued about. It's way too easy to call oats mafia right now. IF oats is town, force mafia to work at getting someone else lynched. If he's mafia, there are 4 of em, find another on. Oats too cheery and too playful with Palmar on D1 to be on that team. Cheesecake's post was BUTT because IF oats is town, that's exactly what mafia needs to do. Point to all the times oats utters the word "Palmar", without adding any context, and without realizing that HOLY CRAP THAT'S A LOT OF MENTIONS AND A LOT OF DIRECT ASSOCIATION AND MAYBE THIS IS NOT A TEAM. I think it's low-hanging fruit that, when picked, tastes like poopoo fruit. And cheesecake picked that poopoo fruit and tried to feed it to you. Don't eat the poopoo fruit. Oats probably town, maybe mafia, but overall just not what should happen TOMORROW, and not on Palmar's team. If ANYTHING, oats's posts on D1 if he's mafia show he's other team, because of how he's goading Palmar and rayn into flinging shit at each other. Neither on his team, he doesn't care, lynch either of em or get em to argue, no skin off his back. Just keep fanning the flames between em and enjoy. If he's mafia, he's non-Palmar. And really, he's got some townie-minded posts, he says throwaway crap like this: he's town on my list. *********HEY HEY IF I DIE AND THEN OATS DIES AND HE IS TOWN YOU NEED TO REMEMBER THIS POST. OATS, IF TOWN, = EASY MISLYNCH. LOOK FOR THE PEOPLE THAT ALL OF A SUDDEN START PUSHING HIM AND MAYBE AVOIDING OTHER PEOPLE YOU'VE SEEN FLIP MAFIA************ Down to 1/4 WoS Everyone is reading his posts overnight and going "So town." Yeah, they look townie. But he's played an entire game, not just tonight. Look at his Palmar read. Look at his actions right before the Palmar lynch. He can't read Palmar. Over and over and over can't read can't read. Except he DOES have these weak leanings, when really pushed he'll say think town, thought town now a little scummier, etc. etc. It's not that he can't read Palmar, it's a mix of "I'm not good at Palmar, but here's what I think, but maybe I'm wrong, who knows, not gonna bother, etc. etc. etc." It's a scummy way of dealing with a read on Palmar. And AT lynch time, he's calling Palmar scum but trying to shunt the lynch away. Again, I don't care how townie he looks right now. That is scummy scummyumpkins. However, here's the deal. I like him way more as THIRD SCUM than I do as other team. I think? So DO NOT LYNCH HIM TOMORROW IF I DIE. If he's not third scum, he suddenly looks a good bit less scummy (I think!? Other team still probably doesn't want Palmar lynched if they can help it). Don't go for him tomorrow. If you find third scum, re-evaluate. Make him keep working. CR Oh yeah lynch this dude tomorrow. He's not been newbie. He's been near useless, despite getting lynched for contributions in other game that people found scummy. His posts all avoid direct scumhunting. He never casually posts. Lynch this dude. Lynch him. I RAN OUT OF TIME BOLLOCKS. If Oats town, cheese scum. That one post does it. SOME OTHER PEOPLE ARE ALSO SCUM THIS POST SUCKS SO MUCH AS A LAST MINUTE POST WTF Also, I read your last couple posts and I see that you think I'm scum with pandain. If nothing else, hoooolyyyyy crap. He wants to lynch you yesterday. He wants to lynch you in the face. You have some votes. Some people will vote for you over Palmar, moreover, as an FT alternative. You know who was really pushing for Palmar? You know who was arguing with Pandain and saying Pandain should be on Palmar and NOT you? (Hint: It was me) So, effectively, at this point what you are arguing is that TWO scum players had townreads on a dude (FT). They argued that he SHOULDN'T BE LYNCHED. One scum player, pandain, argued that VA, a poor old innocent townie, SHOULD. The other scum player, me, argued that Palmar (who flipped scum) should be lynched, not VA. They had a lot of back and forth. There are posts. You can read them. You think we both saved a townie, tried to save a townie (because we were arguing before this modkill stuff came up), and i actively argued with another scum player to lynch scum over poor poor townie VA. The team you apparently think exists is riddikerous. Read the hint. If you're actually town, you think I argued | ||
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On October 06 2013 07:00 VayneAuthority wrote: Your question doesn't need answering. You want to know why x and y make Pandain town.lol what? that spoilered post doesnt answer my question at all. and if you honestly expect me to believe that scumteams dont argue in thread then you must be thinking your talking to chairman ray or something. I just spent half of golden sun arguing about shit with grackaroni and we were both scum. Your post presumes that my townread is based on that. I don't care about that at all. He's town for the reasons in my filter. You KNOW if read my filter that I think he's town, and I think he's town for different reasons. No. It doesn't answer you question. Because your question is "Why do you think x makes pandain town?" When it turns out I don't care about x at all, and you'd know that if you read my filter. | ||
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We'll just go with this. You think that Pandain is the tippy toppy most obvious scum out there? You think that when there are 4 mafia, he is the MOST obvious? You are convinced that we just gotta gotta gotta kill that Pandain? | ||
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If you want to keep pushing this, I'm going to need you to get clearance from the confirmed townies that you are making sense about oats, and making sense about me calling you out on it. If you get that, I will continue to do this, but I WILL be sillier and it WON'T be the greatest thing ever for the thread. I'll even toss you this, something entirely unrelated to your bulletproof comments and pandain. What do you make of this POST? What do you make of cheesecake at the moment? On October 06 2013 00:04 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Oats is scum because: -Concerning Palmar making sense in a scummy way- lol dat distance unvotes... votes ft... later... Also he's done nothing this game to push lynches. 10 pages of filter that's done nothing. He's had suspicion on me the entire game but not tried to get me lynched or even cared that I was in this game. Lynch Oats on the morrow. | ||
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What do you make of the above post? The cheesecake post. | ||
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On October 06 2013 01:54 VayneAuthority wrote: if anything im going to be pressure voting CR tomorrow. fuck this lurking shit when i dont know anything about the guy | ||
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On October 06 2013 01:14 VayneAuthority wrote: and wave is actually doing shit so I feel pretty good where im at oats and pandain/s0lstice/austin hu3hu3 On October 06 2013 01:54 VayneAuthority wrote: CR wasn't even in your scumteams. Then you say you're going to pressure vote him. On D4. When you have scum suspects.if anything im going to be pressure voting CR tomorrow. fuck this lurking shit when i dont know anything about the guy Then oats is confirmed town when D4 starts. So now you KNOW your scumreads are wrong, you need MORE scum, a guy you thought was townie before IS scum, and what do you do? You vote pandain. You don't actually care about voting CR. Or pressuring him. You don't pressure him, you don't maybe slot him into the place where oats was, you just go with pandain. Cuz he's maybe mislynchable. And this, in the face of people hopping on Oats yesterday: On October 06 2013 07:34 VayneAuthority wrote: if it isn't obvious I am the mislynch of choice as I predicted yesterday. which is why people started gravitating towards me yesterday. Anyone that votes for me is essentially claiming scum. Is sillypants. IF by some miracle you're town: (1) Oats was clearly being set up as the mislynch of choice (2) LOOK AT THE VOTES. It's 2 for CR, 2 for Pandain, 1 for you. Do tell, how does that make you the "obvious mislynch for today"? | ||
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On October 06 2013 07:36 Chairman Ray wrote: oats is 100% town based on koshi's shot. He's saying it got refunded, and there's no way for that to happen with a shot on scum as far as we know.I think you are town because of the way you entered the game. A town can have the mindset to finding one particular scum and getting that scum lynched, taking it one day at a time, or a town can have the mindset of looking at the entire game in general and trying to decipher where everyone stands. A mafia can have the mindset of trying to push scum status onto one town and getting him mislynched, or a mafia can have the mindset to trying to make a fellow mafia look town, or even both. I think your playstyle fits best with the town that's looking at the entire game. You bring up a lot of reads onto people who are not currently under attack and a lot of it is pretty legitimate, even on me. This tells me that you are probably town. Just to address some of the criticisms on my activity, when I signed up for this mafia I thought I would have a lot more time, but then some irl commitments came up, and I'm trying to squeeze in sessions. I don't like to casually post a lot of one liners because whenever I come check the mafia thread, and there's like 8 new pages, I get a headache. I think it's best for town if they are not fishing in a sea of red herrings. As for the CC post, it gives me some reads on both CC and Oats. I think that even though Oats super defended Palmer, Palmer's team showed they are capable of anything since his show with SnB was really convincing that they were not both scum together. Looking for possible alliances isn't that effective against the Bangers. So I disagree with CC on that one. CC posting that however doesn't really indicate his alignment to me since that's a legitimate thing for both scum and town to do. Right now I'm giving him a slight town read just because I think solstice is mafia. Question, have we absolutely determined if Oats is town based on the cop shot? If not, I might take a look at him. | ||
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If not, is a bullet consumed when the shooter is roleblocked? | ||
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On October 06 2013 07:43 VayneAuthority wrote: How are you the mislynch of choice? You're not being lynched. You're in third place. you're bad if you are town again, reminds me of nuclear. You always try to make town lose for whatever reason Do you DISAGREE that oats was being set up as a mislynch? | ||
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On October 06 2013 08:20 VisceraEyes wrote: How you feel about cc/VA/CR/(WoS or solstice)I'm here. Sup? And...wos or solstice? Any major thoughts? | ||
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On October 06 2013 08:33 VisceraEyes wrote: I didn't want to jump on that "other mafia" bit, although...it's not wonderful.This post makes me wonder. Like - there aren't a WHOLE lot of options, but you think bussing is the option he'd be choosing right now? I think it's an odd first assumption (although a good strategy since they're combating so many confirmed towns at this point). (Hear that mafia, bus. Bus hard. Do it). | ||
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Which means CR in the last banger slot, not WoS, and probably WoS town/solstice mafia. | ||
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On October 06 2013 08:17 Koshi wrote: Koshi, while Pandain was slightly waffly in that he said he'd lynch Palmar but also wanted to lynch VA instead, he DID do this:Yeah must mixed things up a bit. Thought he was saving both Palmar and FT quite hard but it was weak on Palmar and strong on FT. But a while back there is a quote Pandain also could lynch palmar. There is a lot of VA pushing though. I am needing rayn on this one. On October 05 2013 02:53 Pandain wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote Palmar ##Unvote ##Vote VA There now he should be in the lead At the time, he thought the unvote/vote would mean Palmar led the tie between FT and Palmar. Effectively, by voting Palmar and unvoting, he was giving Palmar the edge as the lynch stood, while still maintaining his lynch on VA. I read Pandain's D3 as legitimately wanting to lynch VA over Palmar, and don't think that vote comes from a Palmar scumbuddy. | ||
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On October 06 2013 08:47 VayneAuthority wrote: Koshi's specific mentions of Pandain defending Palmar being one of the things he's thinking about indicates that he's scummy on the Pandain/Palmar interactions.except nobody is saying that pandain is a motor city banger so nobody cares about that Which would most likely indicate he was thinking Pandain on Palmar's team. | ||
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On October 06 2013 08:47 WaveofShadow wrote: Gonna play an lol game or two with a friend, will check in after.I'm back and caught up: I was reading while I was out. I have to go back and look over some stuff though because I couldn't really post and there as some stuff I wanted to point out. Gimme a few and then we can do question/answer time Austin. Mainly...I'm not entirely sure, cuz I can't ask you what I ask VE. | ||
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I'm not ditching it. You're not magically required to find him, but it sure seems silly not to think about it. | ||
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On October 06 2013 09:20 VisceraEyes wrote: In between ROLLING with top udyr.I agree with Austin's take - being less inclined to include you Wave as scum, myself. But I'm not sure. Austin, what makes CC scum to you? Limited options + EXPLICITLY that one post I keep quoting. Scum need mislynches. I thought oats was town. I know a lot of people didn't. But now you KNOW oats is town. Go back to yesterday and read it. You can SEE him being set up as a mislynch. You can smell it, taste it, feel it, see it. Cheesecake's post was the most offensive of ANY anti-oats post, because it was just pure I WANT TO LYNCH THIS GUY. If that makes sense, he's not concerned with going through oats's filter and calling oats scum based on x and y but not z, no critical thought, no nothing. It's just going into oats's filter and VOMITING half his posts into a giant list. Oats too cheery and too playful with Palmar on D1 to be on that team. Cheesecake's post was BUTT because IF oats is town, that's exactly what mafia needs to do. Point to all the times oats utters the word "Palmar", without adding any context, and without realizing that HOLY CRAP THAT'S A LOT OF MENTIONS AND A LOT OF DIRECT ASSOCIATION AND MAYBE THIS IS NOT A TEAM. I think it's low-hanging fruit that, when picked, tastes like poopoo fruit. And cheesecake picked that poopoo fruit and tried to feed it to you. Don't eat the poopoo fruit. Oats probably town, maybe mafia, but overall just not what should happen TOMORROW, and not on Palmar's team. He just grabs "Oats mentions Palmar." Doesn't consider whether that makes Oats town or scum or Palmarbud or anything, he just WANTS Oats to look scummy.If you look at yesterday, and at the people attacking oats, SOME OF THEM ARE TOWN. But SOME OF THEM ARE MAFIA. Out of every post on oats that I remember, that was the single scummiest post out there. And again, generic crap like "someone has to be" + "nothing giving me a beefy townread on him" | ||
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On October 06 2013 09:30 WaveofShadow wrote: So, here's a thing. s0lstice thinks I'm slimy/used car salesman-y. You think I'm not answering your scumread.Oh. Weird way of answering it I guess. You don't find it odd in the slightest that Austin answers everything I bring up as long as it has nothing to do with him being scum, in which case he acts as though it didn't exist? You don't find my scenario in which he was trying to set me up for a while plausible? Here's the thing. I haven't had a solid town game in a bit. My townreads on SP/FT/oats ALL being mislynches were correct. I wanted to lynch Palmar yesterday, he was mafia. If s0lstice if mafia (dunno for sure yet), I've been right on all my votes and on identifying mislynch wagons. How would you feel if a large chunk of your reads, and especially some of your reads on mislynches, had been correct? And you were alive? And you hadn't had a nice solid towngame in a while? AND you felt like the game was nearly solved? You would feel good. You wouldn't care if someone calls you scum because: (1) you know you're not; (2) you think your scumlist is solid at this point; (3) you don't think you're going to get lynched even if a couple people think you're scum (especially because some of the people pushing you must be scum by elimination, and you think those people will die before you do, making the suspicion on you at least partly scum-pushed); (4) even if you GET mislynched, you played a really good game and your mislynch sort of seals the deal for town, because you have been working from good reads all game, so maybe your lategame reads are good. As an example of (4), I was looking for people trying to mislynch oats yesterday, because I thought he was town. If you thought he was scum, you may not have been seeing some things in the same light. So because I've been working from a good base (so far), I trust my current reads to be good to sexy, and if I get lynched, there are good to sexy reads for town to follow and trust. So...whether I live or get mislynched, it doesn't matter a BOATLOAD to me. I think town has this game, I think whether I'm alive or dead town has this game, and I think I had a couple days in this game that I can be proud of. I'm just not worried with a scumread on me. If you found yourself in THAT scenario, the very specific scenario. Would you care if someone was trying to intimate that you were scum? Or could be scum? It's making me a bit obnoxious, because it's gone from having fun and trying to promote good atmosphere with earlier silly posts to now kind of being a little dickish about it, but still in my head promoting a good town atmosphere because I'm town and some of the people I'm being dickish too (VA) are likely mafia. On October 06 2013 09:40 WaveofShadow wrote: Oh yeah also that reminds me.... I'm not going to use this as something to help me push my case on Austin but that question he asked to mods in thread seemed like a question scum could ask to seem towny. Jes' sayin'. Yurp. Because it's a townie thing to want to know! However, it doesn't make me town at all. It's entirely null, cuz either side should be asking that. | ||
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AMG HE'S RIGHT HE WAS TOWNIE ON SP/FT/OATS AND THEY ALL ENDED UP TOWN. TOO MUCH INFO! But then I'd have correctly identified them as town, not the other mafia team, and eschewed a number of mislynches. Either I'm a scum giving out townreads on townies, or I'm ACTUALLY having a decent town game and am happy about it. | ||
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On October 06 2013 09:45 WaveofShadow wrote: CC is just piling on. The things he's saying HAVE already been said. They're not ridiculous, people had legitimate reasons to be suspicious of oats.I agreed with some things CC brought up against Oats (even though I may have brought them up first?). What makes his posting on the matter so much more egregious? I'm curious because much like a lot of the stuff you've posted, I don't quite see the distinction. But...he's not ADDING anything, he's parroting. And he's doing so in a...throw stuff at the wall and see what sticks, manner. That's the MAIN thing. He's just lumping stuff and going SCUMMY SCUMMY SCUMMY without ever analyzing it, breaking stuff down. SOME of those statements about Palmar actually make oats look town, imo. It's not "Every time Oats mentions Palmar it's scummy." That's false. Almost always. He makes no effort at all to sift through and find scummy mentions/townie mentions, or even just scummy mentions. He throws everything into the pot. Other people had either poop comments "oats is mafia, doing nothing" or ... more well-reasoned suspicions. | ||
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6-3-1 or 7-3. In the 6-3-1 case, given that we only saw 1 KP last night, we assume SOMEONE used drive by, and there will be 3 KP out there. Scum shoot VE and two people they think don't have vests, take numbers to 3-3-1. Tell the other scummer to let their team win, not town, lynch Koshi 4-3, and win the game. In the 7-3 case, max of 2 KP. Doesn't make sense. So...there IS a chance that if this is a ploy and solstice is town, we lynch him and lose IF scum hit unvested targets and avoid the bus? But I think that can only happen if solstice is town and if the other mafia team cooperates. | ||
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On October 06 2013 11:17 WaveofShadow wrote: I don't think that team does. There's a team with ONE dude. At best he can kingmake or something IF we screw up, but I don't think he has a good chance of getting a win unless people let him. Right?Why would they cooperate if they still have a chance to win on their own? Initiating the contact makes no sense to me in the first place. Even 3-3-1. He has to lynch town. 2-3-1. He shoots town or mafia, either, 1-3-1 or 1-2-1. In that case, the other mafia team can lynch him and shoot the townie to win if it's 1-3-1, or can ... force a no lynch, then shoot him while he shoots them, leaving it town vs. (one dude from 3 man team). He has no chance to win. The other team has as much KP as he does AND they control the lynch. Even if he shoots them, they have even numbers always and can win, barring Koshi not dying and not getting blocked and shooting someone from the 3 man team? And any sort of "townies living" scenario, vests or koshi saves, does NOT help the 1 man scumteam, he's just too far behind. | ||
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Unsure if contact makes sense or not. They NEED to work together at this point, to have a CHANCE of winning, but really what they need is just like...one or two mislynches and to NOT lose the one-man scumteam. If solstice is the one-man team, that would mean that the snb/palmar team shot Hiro (if we assume someone is using mason as a partial KP item, not in liue of ACTUAL KP, at which case it wouldn't make any sense to me to pass on a KP when you need EVERY dead townie you can get). solstice could mason the 3 man team and tell them he's going to help? If he's 3 man team, they're scouting the one-man team....and I guess they can just go with their scummiest read? To see if he's down to help? I don't....I don't love this. He gets this PM, knows solstice is mafia, but doesn't post in thread yet because he's trying to bait? But then solstice doesn't respond after a couple hours, so he comes to thread now? Cheese, why now? Why not continue to the bait? | ||
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On October 06 2013 11:23 WaveofShadow wrote: I'm assuming that because, even in the BEST CASE SCENARIO for mafia (they know each other with 100% accuracy), the one-man team can't win. A situation with less knowledge is never superior for the one-man team as far as I can tell. So I'm assuming that because with the deck stacked as much as possible towards the 1 man team (the 3 man team knows him 100% and will not shoot him accidentally), he can't win.Once again you're assuming that the scumteams have each other figured out in this scenario. I don't know why you make that assumption. | ||
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I dunno, the cases in which town loses require nobody having vest. Nobody should give specifics on that probably. But if mafia thinks they're caught 100% dead to rights, or close enough to it that they can't get much in the way of mislynching and MIGHT lose the other team, then this increases their chances to win (an all-in on a fake PM claim). | ||
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On October 06 2013 11:31 WaveofShadow wrote: Yeah, but I've been right! Mwahahahahahaha + <3.Wat. Why would that be best case scenario for him? Wouldn't best case scenario be to just fucking hide/pretend to be town and hope to outlast the other team so he can actually WIN? Like.....how does your mind work Austin? I really don't get anything you've been saying throughout this entire game. He cannot hide/hope to outlast. IF we mislynch, it's 6-3-1. Either scum kill 3 townies with NKs or town still controls the lynch. The 3 man team will not shoot the three man team. The 1 man team can won't shoot himself. So IF no townies survive (please please please?). So IF mafia get 3 kills, on anyone, no protects or whatever, it's either: 3-3-1 4-2-1 4-3 5-2 In two of those cases, lone dude is dead. In the 3-3-1 he CAN hide, but....hmmmm. LOOK IT STARTS TO GET REALLY CONVOLUTED AND THERE ARE TOO MANY OPTIONS BUT I DO NOT THINK THAT ONE MAN MAFIA CAN ACTUALLY WIN THIS BECAUSE EITHER TOWN IS WRECKING SCUM OR 3 MAN TEAM IS IN CONTROL OF THE GAME. WHATEVER, IT'S NOT THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN THE WORLD. The important thing, to me, is that if mafia is threatened righ tnow, they COULD be going all-in on this, because there are scenarios where they win if vests are gone and they dodge koshi. | ||
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I guess we see this solstice post except lolololololol | ||
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solstice never mentioned, even why I ask him his thoughts on solstice. However, he DOES call SP scum, in part, for calling out Koshi D1 and wanting to RNG lynch him. Somewhat protective of his partner D1 if it's Koshi, never mention even when offered if solstice. And in his reads Koshi is prob town but solstice not mentioned. | ||
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On October 06 2013 11:48 VisceraEyes wrote: solstice wanted to lynch hiro.The real cop would have known hiro was town when hiro was a topic of discussion too. On phone but someone crossreference when I was suspecting hiro loudly. On September 30 2013 03:08 s0Lstice wrote: anyway I'm up to Pandain's entrance into the thread. some town reads so far but no strong scum reads. hated hiro's entrance but he has since been a lil better as I continued reading. still plugging away+watching football On October 01 2013 00:58 s0Lstice wrote: right well I'm here, taking me awhile to catch up. I'm about to say fuck it and just start playing from here on (with a helpful summary for pages 40-now from someone) but we'll see how much time I get tonight. I didn't want to say much without having a complete picture of the goings on but if that means I never start talking then it's no good. from what I've read I don't like hiro, or Oats. Cheesecakes weird pressure vote on Oats bothered me as well. hiro for his entrance into the thread and early passivity (agree with Palmar's points here). Oats (at least up to where I stopped) hasn't started tunneling anyone yet, and is doing his 'drop a question into a bucket' thing he does as scum. I saw him engaging with the thread but had trouble figuring out what he was hoping to get from his questions and/or didn't see what he was doing with the answers he got. There's some rumblings for FT. Nothing struck me as odd about him from what I read. I'll look closer tonight. | ||
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On October 02 2013 05:16 s0Lstice wrote: I've called you scum like 3 times. It's pretty much the most notable thing I've done, and I'm absent from your list post. Why? Does not look like bros | ||
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Why not tell thread at the start of the day that Cheese claimed mafia in PMs? Why bother asking koshi why he's been kind of a wimpy confirmed townie earlier today? | ||
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On October 06 2013 12:05 Pandain wrote: Except that if we lynch solstice and he's the cop, it's 6-3-1, and scum can take control of the game (assuming a drive by last night still). There is no "lynch anyone next" in that scenario unless you're mafia.Even if solstice is cop which he's not then just lynch Koshi next. Furthermore Koshi confirmed people I think are town. | ||
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On October 06 2013 12:07 s0Lstice wrote: If you got the prius back and confirmed Oats, why not use it on N3? Cocaine-Covered Prius: If delivered to a gang member, will roleblock his entire gang for the night. If delivered to a townie, they will ignore it and you will get your Prius back. You aren't notified. It happened on N2, and hiro was dead with day post. If anyone was gonna confirm you it was gonna be me. Hence why I've been on austin's balls for attacking you. You mason Cheese, maybe he's mafia, maybe he's not. You Prius Cheese, you 100% know whether he's mafia or not, based on whether you get the Prius back. | ||
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On October 06 2013 12:16 s0Lstice wrote: So it was Hiro's ability, but you didn't use it N3 because you wanted to try for something bigger?It didn't even matter to me, but yes. I wanted to catch you and your teammates. Pretty sure I wouldn't have used it even if I could after hiro died | ||
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On October 06 2013 12:21 s0Lstice wrote: b/c thisright, the WoS prius and why it makes sense On September 23 2013 05:38 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: If something is hiro's ability, it seems like you're saying it's a hiro-exclusive item. Indicating that you can't use it.POLICE 2 Police (Buddy Cop Team) - By-the-book and loose-cannon cops. Both have a number of items which they can use a set number of times. Some items are exclusive to each cop, others are not. Here is the list: Meaning the reason you didn't use the prius N3 is because it was hiro's ability and he was dead. If your reason is "I wanted something bigger", fine, but you just...failed to mention you no longer had the ability to prius? | ||
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On October 06 2013 12:48 s0Lstice wrote: I've been enjoying this game so far. And now it's crazy speculation and team setup and figuring out who is telling the truth or whether it even matters.how in the fuck are you enjoying this : / And there's this weird half-benefit where if you're ACTUALLY a cop, then you're basically doing what I kept/keep doing when I get blue roles, and I find that kinda neat. | ||
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On October 06 2013 13:06 WaveofShadow wrote: Not the item. Just in general. Someone shows up and puts a cocaine-covered Prius in front of you, something's going down. Definitely EITHER a cokehead or environmental freak IRL (or both).lol why? I don't believe anyone would use that on me. solstice, you think Koshi is scum at this point. Talk to me about rayn/Ve/oats plox. | ||
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On October 06 2013 13:16 s0Lstice wrote: IF YOU ARE SCUM YOU ARE MAKING IT SOMEWHAT DIFFICULT TO GET YOU TO 100% SAY DUMB STUFF AND TRAP YOURSELF.VE is town obviously. I have no idea about rayn and oats, thats the honest truth. I think both look fucking scummy as hell, Rayn for the same reason as Koshi (doing fuck all with all this town cred when he is normally large and in charge), and I still think Oats is scummy for the same reasons I've been saying all game. It's really WIFOM though. Would Koshi be so brazen as to confirm his team with fake checks? Who the fuck knows. IF YOU ARE SCUM PLEASE START DOING THAT. | ||
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For a fake claim that relies on so very very many moving parts, this is a lot of answers without super major glaring errors. | ||
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cc koshi/x/y or x koshi/cc/y With possible rayn. Possible oats. I assume still possible me? | ||
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On October 06 2013 13:20 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: YOU HAVE EXPERIENCED FIRSTHAND HOW PARANOID I AAAAAAMMMMMMMM.Austin are you considering he is the real cop -.- | ||
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On October 06 2013 13:20 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Also, yes. I'm considering it.Austin are you considering he is the real cop -.- I had a scumread on koshi earlier. I specifically noted that his play after soft-claiming was odd for cop. His play after hard-claiming hasn't really looked more cop-ish. And today, he made some WEIRD posts that caught my eye but I dismissed: On October 06 2013 05:37 Koshi wrote: I did it all for you. You said Oats was last banger D: I shot oats cuz VA said he was MCB On October 06 2013 05:53 Koshi wrote: I did the action. I wasnt RB. It is interesting that you know bulletproof vest costs 0,5 kp VA. The KP comment is basically a "maybe you're scum for knowing the cost of scum items" On October 06 2013 06:08 Koshi wrote: But right after being unsure, asks VA if he's sure on pandain and is voting pandainStill sad that I didnt get last banger. ##vote: Pandain You sure about your pandain read VA? 48 hours.to convince us all. I trust rayn to be right.as.well anyway. On October 06 2013 06:37 Koshi wrote: Now back to doesn't know whassup. Despite just asking if he's sure about his read. Who cares if VA is sure on his read if Koshi doesn't know how to read VA right now?I am sad VA doesnt love me for shooting his scumread. But yeah, dnu what is up with VA atm. On October 06 2013 06:59 Koshi wrote: When asked why VA is town, Koshi gives reasons he thinks VA is town. Then says he's 65% on VA = town.Because he pretends to have figured out the game or be close to figure out since the start of the game. While he hasn't. I assocciate this behaviour with town vayne. There are more thingies like that. I am like on 65% town. Need to lynch Pandain if he doesnt play the day 4 of his life. ALSO SAYS THAT VA IS TOWN BECAUSE VA THINKS HE HAS FIGURED OUT THE GAME BUT REALLY HASN'T. YET IS STILL ASKING VA WHETHER VA TRUSTS HIS READ. IF VA TRUSTS HIS READ ON PANDAIN AND KOSHI THINKS VA IS TOWN BECAUSE HE THINKS HE KNOWS SHIZ BUT HE DON'T KNOW SHIZ THEN KOSHI SHOULDN'T BE VOTING PANDAIN. On October 06 2013 07:56 Koshi wrote: He shot the dude's scumread. Isn't super sure how to read him. etc. etc. But VA might have been a #2 lynch the next day. Maybe.It was going to be Oats over you tbh. You might have been wagon 2 together with Padain. I was paying attention on who was the prime lynch candidate. I need to revisit the argumens made early night one about either WoS or Oats being last banger. But too tired atm. | ||
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Outing them because his checks would be WIFOM at that point, but it's TRUE that rayn has kinda effed off after Koshi confirmed him. | ||
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Someone please look at that Koshi train of thought. Tell me I'm seeing things OR tell me "hey, that's interesting, and here's why....." | ||
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On October 06 2013 23:31 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Forcing them to go at each other requires scum to spend KP tonight on a vest or rb. Essentially, they let the correct cop confirm himself AND shoot the other guy (although probably they shoot the cop with KP), OR they give up a KP to protect the claim.or if koshi is fake he claims that Solstice used a vest. or if sol is fake he claims that koshi uses a vest. whoever is scum actually uses a vest. or real.cop is roleweeded. wifffffffom I don't love it, but it's not the worst plan ever. Koshi. You don't look as super mega delicious as you think you do, and actually your posts since coming back look very wonky. You're flailing around from either getting outed or being surprised that anyone would not believe you. | ||
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On October 07 2013 00:00 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: +2LET'S TALK ABOUT ABILITIES THAT NOBODY ELSE HAS ANY IDEA ABOUT HE IS MAFIA BECAUSE HE DOESN'T KNOW ABOUT THE STUFF THAT NOBODY KNOWS ABOUT BUT ME | ||
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On October 07 2013 01:51 VayneAuthority wrote: What are YOUR thoughts on those Koshi posts on you earlier D4?my ego is way too big to lose to such a bad claim, you will never have my vote. | ||
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Koshi had some WEIRD posts on you yesterday. You didn't notice? You don't have any thoughts? | ||
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##vote: Koshi I am NOT certain that we should be lynching into these two, rather than having Koshi precision shot solstice tonight. If we could know that cop stuff wasn't going to dominate the discussion forever, I like that idea. But this is in front of us and I don't think everyone will be able to get past it if we don't lynch into them today. | ||
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ALL THE KP MATH IS SO MESSED UP BECAUSE WE'RE ASSUMING THINGS BUT THIS IS ODD N1 BH dies. We ASSUME a drive by from the other team. That means Team 1 has 1 KP N2, Team 2 has 2 KP. solstice says that cops precision shot SnB and priused WoS. That means Team 1 had 1 KP, Team 2 had 2 KP, cops used 1 KP on SnB. We saw three deaths. We SHOULD have seen 4. Nobody claimed to get shot N2. So either: (solstice is lying) OR (there was no N1 driveby OR someone got doublestacked N2 OR WoS is scum on the team that didn't driveby N1) Under Koshi's set of actions, we should have seen 3 KP and we saw 3 KP. Under solstice's, we should have seen 3-4, and there are 3 different ways that we could have seen 3 KP happen. | ||
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On October 07 2013 03:04 VayneAuthority wrote: Yup. No way am I reading the game and making reads based on what people post, which sometimes involves changing reads.yea that explains your complete 180 on s0lstice, no wait it doesnt Couldn't be. | ||
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On October 07 2013 03:05 s0Lstice wrote: That falls under the no drive-by option.hmm thats interesting austin. could BH have been hit by both teams on the same night while he vested? | ||
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On October 07 2013 03:18 Koshi wrote: What do you mean "this is how I post?" To what are you referring? And what implications does qtpieness have for VA's alignment?This is how I post basically. It might be extra special because I think VA is a qtpie. | ||
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Listening, being partly swayed by a number of factors, including Koshi's play, rayn's play, the fact that solstice has a lot of neatly packaged answers for some things, everyone is voting solstice (like...there are AT LEAST 2 mafia votes on him right now given that I'm town and VE is basically the towniest townie after these counterclaims, p.s. VE where you at?) and the fact THAT I HAVE BEEN AN EQUALLY LARGE-SIZED WEIRDO WITH MULTIPLE ROLES IN THE PAST. Being not partly swayed by the fact that Koshi ALSO has some neatly packaged answers (as far as both their checks are concerned, you can see reads change, and see reasons for Koshi's checks), the KP math is a little wonky, the fact that MOST PEOPLE ARE NOT EQUALLY LARGE-SIZED WEIRDOS with roles. | ||
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On October 07 2013 03:32 Koshi wrote: If you are town, I am currently disappointed with your play. As well as VA's if he's town.Your case on me is that I have strange interactions with VA? My answer: This is how I play & VA is a qt. | ||
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On October 07 2013 03:58 WaveofShadow wrote: Except that he got called out HARD for soft-claiming by multiple people before N2. Simple scenario is daaaa best The only thing I have trouble with now + Show Spoiler + (aside from why did a scum solstice bother doing this in the first place----probably impatience imo because I imagine it's ridiculously nerve-wracking when your survival is entirely out of your own hands---oh wait I know about that survivor lololol) I can understand scum maybe not believing him, but then it's "do we think scum want grack / hiro dead more than a townie who might be cop?" Like, even if they don't believe, if he's town he's town. At worst, they kill a townie, and they might get a cop if they believe. In townKoshi world, they took shots on grack and hiro rather than maybecop koshi. | ||
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On October 07 2013 04:04 WaveofShadow wrote: It's mafia. There are multiple explanations. I know that's one.I already explained this. Makes more sense to shoot people who nobody was likely to protect or might have been 'other team scum.' Neither of them looked particularly good. The fact remains that the 'right' play here is to lynch solstice, regardless of the shitfest between them simply based on circumstance. I will admit solstice's arguments have been somewhat compelling in certain ways but given the way towns have been playing I really want to make the 'right' call here. If we are wrong and solstice was the cop then in my opinion it is more his fault than ours for trying to 'make plays' without having any idea what he was doing. And yeah, I'm well aware that's kind of a shitty attitude and absolving myself of responsibility if I AM wrong and Solstice just screwed up, but I know what the right call is in this scenario and I'm taking it. Protection is a legitimate thing, yes, he might have been protected, as everyone was calling him cop. I don't think other mafia is, as, at least if I had been mafia this game, I would assume the dude that everyone is picking up soft cop claims from is town and a cop, not mafia fakeclaiming. (Yes, I know there that train of thought goes, thank you very much) Hiro had some folks on his ass though. They shot a dude who was decently mislynchable later over possible cop. Even if you're worried about protection, you've got multiple KP, and EVERYONE might be protected. I don't think that's as much of a factor in scum shots this game as in most? | ||
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On October 07 2013 04:15 VisceraEyes wrote: The N2 shots on hiro and snb gave 1-2 scum teams a bonus .5 KP. We don't know item costs, but it's possible that pay phone is a <=.5 KP item and that was what scumteam chose.How? Both teams have 1KP, which doesn't round up. If he sac'd KP then he couldn't have shot. Why a scumteam chooses the payphone over a roleblock if they're not going after koshi is...... | ||
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On October 07 2013 04:20 WaveofShadow wrote: In my head, the super duper right play is to have everyone try and create full scum teams. Just off the top of their head, who they think are the 4 scum, don't have to align. We leave that on the back burner. I like when Chezinu tries to get everyone to make lists, and I think it's something to have people DO but not rely on heavily.Was just answering VE's question with what I think is a likely scenario. Austin. Do you honestly think the 'right' play here is to lynch Koshi? Then we don't lynch either cop claimer. We have Koshi precision shot solstice (he claims his is up). We have solstice...he said he used his precision shot and that the prius was Hiro's, so I guess we just have him do something defensive. Try to save someone. This forces either scumKoshiteam to deal with an extra protect OR scumsolsticeteam to RB koshi/buy vest for solstice or lose solstice. One way we 100% kill solstice or save a KP from town (they have to spend KP on the RB item). The other way we have a CHANCE of saving a townie. In my head, that's the RIGHT play, we'll be right back in this situation tomorrow (unless solstice scum and doesn't rb or buy vest), but we'll have a night that's slightly more town-favored than it otherwise would be. The real issue with that is: (1) It requires people to ignore the competing claims (2) A LOT of folks are implicated in the claims --> rayn, oats, cc, somewhat you So we avoid all of those and we find scum in the remainder. Heck, perhaps we're the super coolest bestest town ever and magically take out the last MCB if it's not someone locked up in these claims. That's my legitimate thought process. I think the absolute RIGHT play is to lynch CR. + Show Spoiler + In my mind, he's not associated with EITHER set of claims, so lynching him isn't explicitly siding with one cop claimer. He hasn't been around. He doesn't seem to care about this cop claim stuff, DESPITE BEING SUPER PLOTTY AND TRICKSY IN HIS OTHER GAMES. THIS GAME GOT CRAZY WEIRD AND INTERESTING AND CONVOLUTED AND HE, AGAIN, JUST DROPS ONE POST AND DIPS. I can believe he's got RL commitments. But we're over a WEEK of time where he NEVER posts casually, and NEVER is just around. And he's not interested where his past games indicate, to me, that he should be interested. Agree? Disagree? Think that (1) interferes with that? VE, how about you? | ||
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On September 06 2013 06:00 Chairman Ray wrote: I'm not afk, and here. Since there's pressure on me now, I'm going to have to reveal some of my intentions. Not all of my posts thus far have been genuine to my feelings, but rather baits to get certain reactions. After thorough analysis, I have concluded that HolyFlare and Umasi are both town, and I am about 95% sure of it. I will post a very long analysis during the nighttime since there's only 1 hour left. I didn't vote Lord Velocity because I wanted him lynched. I voted him to pressure him into giving information. When Umasi pressured him early on, he paniced a lot. I pressured him again in case he would give out something incriminating, but he didn't. The reason I kept my vote on him was a bait for mafia. Since there's many votes on myRZeft, I needed to but a little buffer on someone else just so that mafia still thinks they have a chance at saving him by triple voting on someone. They have not fallen for that and it's 1 hour remaining. MyRZeft himself is not even joining a bandwagon and just voting on his own. This leads me to believe that myRZeft is not mafia. From all this information, I would urge you guys to not vote myRZeft. Also don't vote HolyFlare or Umasi, which I will explain later (I promise) And then look at the Koshi/Cheesecake/solstice situation. THIS IS EXACTLY THE KIND OF STUFF HE WAS TRYING TO PULL AS TOWN. I'M GOING TO DO X TO TRICK SCUM AND GET THEM TO REVEAL THEMSELVES. I know he's been told not to do it. I know he got lynched for it. But based on him DOING THIS PREVIOUSLY, RECENTLY, we know he LIKES this kind of stuff. I know I shouldn't be so paranoid, but it hits and I LIKE IT and I spam paranoid crap and I love it. Yum yum addictive. And then when ALL OF THIS COMES OUT TODAY, what does CR post? On October 06 2013 11:03 Chairman Ray wrote: Well, looks like an easy win for town lol. Do we think that solstice is the last banger or is he in the other mafia team? On October 06 2013 11:14 Chairman Ray wrote: ##unvote ##vote: solstice Looks pretty clear who our lynch should be. On October 06 2013 11:21 Chairman Ray wrote: I would prefer to lynch the solo banger over the other team, but I think a confirmed scum is probably better than risking it. On October 06 2013 11:34 Chairman Ray wrote: Have we considered the scenario where CC is faking it and solstice is innocent? On October 06 2013 11:34 Chairman Ray wrote: oh nvm On October 06 2013 11:34 Chairman Ray wrote: yeah, ez day, WOOHOO On October 06 2013 11:38 Chairman Ray wrote: He's not thinking about stuff. He's not INTERESTED in stuff. He goes "HAI HAS ANYONE CONSIDERED THIS OTHER SCENARIO?"If you were the other cop, you should have claimed it ages ago when Koshi first came out. And what does he do with that question? NOTHING. He doesn't seem to consider it. He doesn't post implications. He doesn't discuss with any other people the issues that we are all discussing, that he asked a question about and is supposedly interested in. CR is HOLY BALLS SO SCUMMY SO SCUMMY SO SCUMMY. | ||
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It's someone playing a game that makes NO SENSE WHATSOEVER and then drazerk going "Hey guys, that person making no sense and taking weird actions might be scum or might not, what do you think? Also, do you know when peach season is cuz I'd really like to eat a peach right now" It's someone making a ridiculous claim on D1 and VE going "Did that guy claim something? I can't remember. Hey, what PSI do my tires need to be at? I wonder if they're a little low." | ||
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On October 07 2013 04:43 WaveofShadow wrote: You absolutely positively get better than a 50% shot.If Koshi had come back and said the cop claim was a fakeclaim I probably would be agreeing to what Austin is suggesting, but VE absolutely has the right of it now. One of Koshi or Solstice is guaranteed scum. You don't get better than a 50% shot. I honestly don't even care if it turns out the scummer here is a member of the non-Bangers. You telling me that CR is 50/50? | ||
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Would you look at CR, look at SnB and Palmar's filters, and tell me whether you think: (1) CR is mafia (2) CR is > 50/50 mafia (3) CR is a decent fit for MCB Specifically, CR posting before the D3 lynch, that Palmar is scum but wants to save him. Or that Palmar is scum but doesn't give as much information as other scum so we should lynch others. That post. | ||
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On October 07 2013 04:46 Pandain wrote: Pandain. I have two goals this game.Your reasons are extremely weak. First, remember his day 1 and 2 play are extremely town and I absolutely loved them although some of the reasons were wrong. They contributed original thought and showed a new perspective which is indicative of town. Your mainly concerned with his day three play, which I will admit is a lot less and worse but it's not scum. I mean look at me, I know some of you even accuse me of this but there's no real reason to try during this day phase when we already found in my eyes a 95% scum. S0lstice has not convinced me in the least bit and probably never will unless there is substantial evidence that Koshi is scum. I have had no scum reads in Koshi and he has been playing like an actual cop not like a cop faking it. (1) win (2) Have VA be wrong about stuff And sometimes, (2) is more important than (1). I really, really, really need you be town. Or else I will be sad. So please, discuss with me about how Koshi has been playing like an actual cop? | ||
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On October 07 2013 04:48 VisceraEyes wrote: If we lynch NEITHER cop claimer today, the math is actually better for us tonight.Actually it doesn't now that I'm thinking about it. We're at 7-1-3 right now I think. If we lynch the scum in the cop claims it's either 7-0-3 or 7-1-2 Assuming worst case (7-1-2) then tonight we could be looking at 3KP if DriveBy was used...making 4-1-2 So the game isn't OVER, per se, but we're definitely in a bad situation assuming scum kill the real cop and 2 of the confirmed town (Me/rayn/Oats if Koshi is cop, Me/Wave if s0L is cop) Again, scum is either dealing with having to protect solstice OR dealing with an extra protect FROM solstice onto town | ||
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On October 07 2013 04:52 WaveofShadow wrote: No. It's better for us. Look at each scenario:The only way this is better for us is if scum removes some uncertainty by killing some townies the rest of town is unsure about. As is VE is likely dead since no vest and confirmed town by 'either' cop. They could probably kill Rayn too who people thought was town before being confirmed by Koshi. I'm not so sure it does help us and I don't know if that's worth the risk honestly. koshi is a cop. solstice is mafia. koshi precision shoots solstice tonight (he says he has it available). Either:
In all three cases where koshi is a cop and solstice is mafia, mafia either loses solstice OR loses 1 KP tonight in order to keep up the cop charade. solstice is a cop. koshi is mafia. solstice says he has no more precision shot and prius was hiro. So he Hollywood CPRs someone tonight. Either:
With solstice a cop and koshi mafia, mafia either loses a KP tonight OR mafia chances are slightly reduced by 1 protect, but they still hit with all shots. In no scenario are we in WORSE shape. ALL POSSIBLE SCENARIOS are better for town. Even if solstice is cop and protect misses, the odds are worse for scum tonight. | ||
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On October 07 2013 04:54 WaveofShadow wrote: I assume some.Austin. The right play today is absolutely to lynch Solstice. No bones about it. Again, the fact that basically everything you have said this game as been so antithetical to my thought processes this game is so fucking odd to me. In which game were we both town together? Nuclear. Possibly older games like ... Liquid City? GSL 2 or the GSL 3 game? Pokemon PTP? Rockband? Apart from nuclear I don't remember any specific. | ||
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On October 07 2013 05:04 WaveofShadow wrote: D2? The votes were split, but nearly unanimously on townies. It's different but same!Just looking at the votecount makes me feel really good. I can't really think of a time Town lynched town when the voting was almost unanimous like this. | ||
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On October 07 2013 05:14 VisceraEyes wrote: Right. They're alive tomorrow, almost certainly.If we lynch outside of the cops we're looking at 6-1-3 or 7-0-3 or 7-1-2 We can't even begin to speculate on the night actions because A) we don't know if s0lstice or Koshi is lying STILL, so we don't know what cop actions are available and B) We still don't know what scum KP is available. So we're still looking for 3 KP tomorrow morning which would leave us: 3-1-3 or 4-0-3 or 4-1-2 Regardless of who is killed, it's safe to say that Koshi and s0L will still be alive tomorrow imo. I don't like these odds. But we can kill not-them scum today, get a night that's PRETTY SOLID FOR TOWN, like either cop has pro-town stuff and we don't risk lynching the wrong one, and a flip today and flips tomorrow MAY tell us more about the situation. | ||
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And we have more info tomorrow. | ||
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On October 07 2013 05:20 WaveofShadow wrote: It's not lower than 50. Once again, you're assuming we hit scum tonight outside of the cops, which is a LOWER CHANCE THAN 50%. Especially if we can't assume anymore that the confirmed people are truly confirmed (aside from VE). If it's lower than 50 we're all awful and don't deserve to win anyway. Don't give me that. If you don't have a > 50% scumread on D4 outside of those 2..... | ||
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On October 07 2013 05:25 WaveofShadow wrote: It doesn't make them so until they flip.Sorry Austin, it doesn't work that way. Just because you're 'sure' someone is scum doesn't actually make them so until they flip. My experience this game only proves that further. I don't care how right you've been or how right you feel you still are. You are not the entirety of the rest of town. The chances are lower than 50%. But you're telling me it's D4 and you have no > 50% mafia reads? (50% is a little misleading, cuz it's not exactly even, but i hate BOTH cop lynches right now, because BOTH of them have played wonkily IMO and I don't have one that I really trust right atm.). Like....WHERE IS THIS WoS? On September 29 2013 02:58 WaveofShadow wrote: The one who thinks he's decent. The one who thinks he can hunt mafia. (Also, for dramatic purposes, I need you to consider that Koshi/solstice is really weird and we don't know which is mafia).Seriously though let's be fair here. Ego boost since last few games aside, I wouldn't call myself Ace or anything. I don't consider myself awful anymore but I think I'm decent. LXI, in which we both played Palmar, was a horrible game for me and was still pretty early in my mafia career. I don't think I've had a game that bad since (maybe one where I smurfed). You can check my profile for my games if you'd like to see my performance in any of them. WHERE IS FAKE ACE? WHERE IS THIS VE? On October 05 2013 05:34 VisceraEyes wrote: YOU ARE STILL WELCOME AND I STILL HAVE TWO SITTING SNUG WITHIN MY OWN SACK.GG Palmar. I would have nailed you tomorrow. Austin, good shit. Thanks for having the nuts I couldn't find in my sack. AND THEY SAY TO LYNCH OUTSIDE THE COPS. BECAUSE WE'RE NOT AWFUL AND WE CAN FIND MAFIA. SCREW THIS WHOLE KOSHI/SOLSTICE BUSINESS FOR NOW, FORCE THEM TO DEAL WITH IT PARTWAY TONIGHT, FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN. Is there really nobody you are MORE confident in than a cop claimer? | ||
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On October 07 2013 05:29 VisceraEyes wrote: I hope you're rational. I think you're competent.Like I don't know what good it's going to do - half of the town thinks I'm irrational and incompetent, and won't listen to me. But whatever - if you can convince me that you're the cop then I won't vote to lynch you. You're also in a shitty spot because right now, in the Venn diagram of "confirmed townies," you happen to be the only person square in the middle. It's not that you're irrational or incompetent, it's that this is a very divisive game right now. Both sides make sense and don't make sense. However, there are options beyond lynch koshi and lynch solstice. And I truly, truly believe that it's a better option. And leaving both cops up HURTS scum tonight. HELPS town. Does it help as much as lynching the scum claimer? No. Absolutely not. But I'm more sure that we can lynch mafia outside the cops than in. And I think you should be too. (Also you WoS). | ||
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On October 07 2013 05:28 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why? Don't be lazy. Why do you think it's bad?If we are lynching outside the cops we lynch Austin. That's so bad. | ||
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On October 07 2013 05:34 VisceraEyes wrote: P'shaw. There are 24 hours left. MOST of the game actually IS townie. And this idea is PERFECTLY RATIONAL.Austin even if I end up agreeing with you, we're not going to secure the votes required because ONE OF THE COP CLAIMS IS 100% SCUM. Heck, it changes the whole battlefield on scum. Koshi/solstice will STILL BE HERE. Instead of spending another 24 hours in Central Mindfucksville, this is proactive. Pushes the discussion elsewhere. Forces stances. Whether we kill scum or no today we still have more to go. Still need reads, more information, people playing the game. Here's a sticking point for scum and they have to take a stance, explain why this is a bad idea or why nobody but solstice or koshi could possibly be mafia let's not look elsewhere gaiz. | ||
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On October 07 2013 05:40 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why is losing Koshi bad?BECAUSE WE LOSE KOSHI ON THE NEXT NIGHT 100%! That's removing confirmed townies for a fucking KP in a game where people have vests.. If we lose Koshi, we 100% know solstice's alignment. WHY IS HAVING THE WHOLE SITUATION RESOLVED A BAD THING? | ||
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On October 07 2013 05:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: We can lynch ANY of 4 scum. You're skipping things here, smoothing over them.You are fucking idiot because when we lynch Solstice and he is scum we have me + Oats as confirmed town aswell. Besides Koshi. And we lynched scum. Your game is falling apart. Why is Koshi dying bad? It confirms solstice as scum, and it confirms you and oats as town. In your "bad" scenario, Koshi getting shot, solstice gets lynched, you guys get confirmed, all of it 100%. Why is it BAD? | ||
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On October 07 2013 06:26 VisceraEyes wrote: Hold your horses I have like 1/3 of my HW almost done and coming.Austin find the last Banger. If you can find the last Banger I'll vote with you I promise. | ||
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On October 07 2013 05:41 VisceraEyes wrote: 10-4.Okay I'm heading out guys. Austin, homework. Assume that myself, Wave and you are all confirmed town. Come up with scumteams and a lynch target outside the cop claims. Wave: you're on claim-duty. Pressure both claims, and get as much information out of BOTH of them as you can. This will help us out tomorrow IF we decide to leave them until tomorrow. For myself, I'm going to be watching and thinking and considering and I'll post my thoughts on the situation with WELL enough time to swing the lynch if I think that's what we need to do. Koshi Koshi as cop confirms Koshi, VE, oats, rayn. In your scenario I am town and WoS is town. That leaves: Pandain, VA, CR, Cheesecake, solstice. Within that group, solstice MUST be mafia (claim). 3/4 of Pandain, VA, CR, Cheesecake MUST be mafia. This scumgroup hinges on Cheesecake. He's the one who called out solstice walkie-talkieing him. 1. Koshi and Cheesecake If he's town, if we think this ISN'T a giant ploy and solstice's team fucked up in thinking CC was scum, then the scum team is Pandain/VA/CR/solstice. Splits in my head are initially solstice/Pandain/VA + CR or solstice/VA/CR + pandain. 1(a). Koshi, Cheesecake, solstice/pandain/VA + CR/ This scum team makes no sense. Pandain pushes VA over Palmar on D3. He can take cred saving FT and MAYBE lynching scum in Palmar, without giving up VA. Saving FT + bussing VA is just too much. Moreover, VA is all up in Pandain's butt. Keeps calling Pandain mafia. This scum team is unlikely, as they're just too at each other's throats. Like...SnB pushes Palmar, but not spamming a whole day to get people onto him like Pandain does with VA. That's way way way too much commitment for a bus. 1(b). Koshi, Cheesecake, solstice/CR/Pandain + VA/ Here, Pandain's D3 push on VA makes more sense. VA can be scum but not on Pandain's team. And Pandain and VA get to be split apart. However, VA didn't seem to care if we lynched Palmar D3. He didn't say much, but he voted Palmar and seemed decently okay with it, never tried to shift the lynch to another target or just stick with FT. Therefore, I do not like this scenario. 1(c). Koshi, Cheesecake, solstice/CR/VA + Pandain/ In this situation, VA is actively going after the remaining scum from the other team. Pandain is trying to save FT and lynch VA D3, but gets forced onto Palmar, his scumbuddy. However, VA today is unwilling to accept solstice as possible cop. In this case, VA is CRAZY distancing himself from solstice, even when other options present themselves (lynch koshi, lynch outside the two). I don't love that idea, but it's there. Based on 1(a) giving a really weird Pandain bus on VA and sacrifice of solstice, I hate it. Based on the implications of (b) and the D3 lynch, I dislike it. I really do not see Palmar's teammate being entirely resigned to just let him go, when it was reasonable for people to stay on FT. 2. Koshi and Cheesecake In this scenario, Cheesecake is outing solstice's PM, but is part of the other mafia team. He just wants solstice lynched, get cred, huzzah huzzah. With solstice and cheesecake scum, we need 2 mafia within CR/VA/Pandain. I would personally argue that Pandain is town here. After yesterday morning, VA calling oats a great bulletproof target and just, in general, spewing nonsense, i do not think he's town. He's also trying to make me (confirmed town in these scenarios) look scummy, and just...he has not made the most sense lately. Like saying he was the clear mislynch for today when: (1) oats was set up yesterday; (2) two other players had more votes than him when he said that. So, no offense, I'm not considering VA town in these scenarios. Pandain or CR is town here. 2(a). Koshi, Cheesecake, Pandain If Cheesecake and solstice were on opposite teams, cheesecake outing solstice is REALLY weird. Too weird. Why not work together and backstab later? Why not at least get more info out of solstice and THEN backstab, letting everyone know he's mafia AND he gave up his team? So I'm assuming cheesecake/solstice same team, and doing this to try to secure someone for later game, a way for scum to "confirm" someone as town by dumping solstice. Cheesecake/Solstice/VA + CR or Cheesecake/Solstice/CR + VA Both VA and CR, whichever is on the solstice-team in Pandain-town world, are dumping solstice, hoping to survive a little bit and live with cheesecake, setting him up to carry it through. In each case, the one-man team is ALSO going after solstice, but doesn't actually KNOW that solstice is mafia. Again though, VA being okay with the Palmar lynch makes the first option more likely than the second. 2(b). Koshi, Cheesecake, CR The cheesecake/solstice thing still applies. Now you're looking at Cheesecake/Solstice/VA + Pandain or Cheesecake/Solstice/Pandain + VA Pandain and VA are split, so that interaction doesn't help make something more likely here. Again, both the scumbuddy and the one-man team are going after solstice, and just solstice. And same thing with disliking VA/Palmar on the same team. So what does Koshi cop mean? It hinges on Cheesecake. IF you think he's Cheesecake, then the remaining mafia MUST be Solstice, Pandain, VA, and CR. And the likely setup is 1(c), with Pandain being the last MCB. IF you think he's Cheesecake, then the remaining mafia are 2/3 of Pandain, VA, and CR. The scumteams I see being most likely there are Cheesecake/Solstice/VA + CR or Cheesecake/Solstice/VA + Pandain IN THE KOSHI SCENARIOS, PANDAIN OR CR IS THE LAST MCB. IF YOU THINK CHEESECAKE, THEN THE LAST MCB IS PANDAIN Okay. I need a moment. Going to post out the other options. Then gonna start really digging, because we can eliminate SOME options based on posts, just gotta look. | ||
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Not to mention, if solstice is mafia, he's GOING TO DIE. We either kill him, or we kill koshi who is a cop, and therefore SOLSTICE DIES. He CANNOT be the one man team, because his counterclaim ensures his death. | ||
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On October 07 2013 06:48 Koshi wrote: You just said the exact opposite. You just said solstice was the last MCB.This is what I have been saying 24/7. Scumteams are playing immoral. | ||
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Koshi says it makes total sense that solstice is the last MCB. Then he notes that he's been saying 24/7 solstice can't be the last MCB. Then he notes that maybe solstice is "yolo-ing it up" and "not thinking about his wincon." | ||
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But I want you to know that right now I hate you in the face. I think my plan is good. I'm okay working to make it happen. However, do you see how many color tags and bold tags are in that post above? DO YOU SEE THEM? You should just sheep me instead of making me show my work. | ||
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On October 07 2013 07:00 Koshi wrote: Honestly? Because if you're actually a cop I think you have targeted decently but have played this actual game poorly.Like fucking D2 VE tells the entire thread I am cop. VA agrees. Grack agrees. Night 2 I am so obvious cop because I hiro is saving me. On day 3 I claim cop and I tell everybody everything. Night 3 I fucking tell you about shot on Oats which is SUPER FUCKING PRO TOWN. Day 4 everybody his fucking scumread says: "oh hai guis I am cop, Koshi is scum" rest of day 4 ALL YOU FUCKING RETARDS BELIEVE S0LSTICE AND I AM FUCKING SCUM?? REALLLYLYLYLYYLYLYYYY??????? HOW DOES THAT HAPpEN.????????? FFS And you being cop messes with some of my reads on other people. | ||
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Gotta think, but that progression is gut townie. Going from "Man nobody will believe him cuz I'm 100% the cop" ---> "Holy shit, why are people believing this stuff!?" feels like a better fit than "lololololol he's the cop and gonna die now" ---> "Holy shit, people are believing him, I've got to salvage this claim pronto!" while being angry. | ||
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I maintain that the following rules apply: VA and Pandain cannot be scumbuddies VA cannot be on Palmar's team I need to check filters to add some more rules and reduce the number of options. I'm also a little worried about Koshi claiming cop and almost immediately claiming a town check on rayn if Koshi is scum. It's pure WIFOM, but Koshi KNOWS he's going to get counterclaimed eventually there (or the cop will flip and Koshi will die). rayn and Koshi look buddy buddy, it FEELS scummy, but that would require a scum Koshi who KNEW he would get called out to super buddy a scumbuddy and rely on WIFOMing that relation. Like, if Koshi is scum then rayn looks so scummy but why tie themselves together so strongly? Will do some filters. | ||
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On October 07 2013 07:24 VisceraEyes wrote: Yeah yeah yeah. I just need to complain for a moment before continuing.Showing your work isn't for my benefit friend. You have no idea how much I wish I could just trust you AND trust town to just sheep you if I just trust you. That's too much unnecessary trust. That's the kind of trust scum wants town to give them. Showing your work is for the rest in town who see a counterclaim and thirst for mafia blood. I think it's highly unlikely that s0L is the last Banger regardless of alignment, and he's pretty unanimously the vote leader. You're showing your work to save the town, not to convince me. | ||
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On October 07 2013 07:30 VisceraEyes wrote: Couple things. The landscape has somewhat changed during D4. He's looked reasonable today, and I don't think scum super needs to be reasonable right here given how everything is going. Given that you're townie and I NEED you on board to push something other than a cop lynch, because of how thread is structured right now, I don't have conviction on WoS scum to fight you over that.Austin this is important: why didn't you have a problem with the task involving assuming WoS is town? The two factions also make it difficult to push WoS scum. If solstice is the cop, WoS is town. If koshi is the cop, then koshi and rayn are town, they seem to have no interest in pushing WoS, they seem to HAVE interest in lynching me eventually, so I need to...build consensus on something else before pushing WoS if I still have him on my scumlist. If that makes sense. Either he's town, or town thinks I'm mafia and he's town. For right now, that's NOT the read to push, and I need to find common ground OR bust heads harder, and then solve WoS later (unless he REALLY sticks out as 3rd banger). | ||
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On October 07 2013 07:59 Koshi wrote: It's RIGHT THERE Ok I got to ask this because I am so pissed about it and I don't even know if it is possible. Can the scumteams win together? Would you allow such monstrosity? Clearly it is not in the rules. And you should let us know when they can change wincon. On September 23 2013 05:38 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: 6 (2x3) Gangsters - win when everyone except their own scumteam is dead (kill other gang) | ||
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On October 07 2013 08:12 raynpelikoneet wrote: Nope. He's either town or looks more town, enough so that I'm not going to spin my wheels RIGHT NOW trying to accuse him of stuff when a townie indicates they consider him town. So you are not trying to solve the game but give out reads that suit you the best? Like, "i can convince people this guy is scum, but not this guy". How does that make any sense? If you think I'm not trying to solve the game, you've not been reading. Hell, if you think I'm not trying to solve the game as either alignment, you've got a bad read on my play. Solving the game only accomplishes my e-peen being longer than VA's. What I need to do within the game itself is WIN it. Not solve it. Nobody cares if I solve it and wave my hands going "Solution here! Solution here!" We can still lose. What I need to do is solve or partially solve the game, but get traction in this game and PROVE that I've solved or partially solved it. Solving without traction doesn't do much. Solving AND traction does. Traction comes from either a slam dunk case, which i DON'T currently have against oats, or from agreement without slam dunk. Right now I need to focus on agreement, because either there are scum that I can get lynched with some agreement OR who cares what I find because I can't get anyone lynched anyway. | ||
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On October 07 2013 08:24 raynpelikoneet wrote: Because I actually do not know right know which of them is mafia. They both have some good points and some bad points.And why is it easier to judge other people and find scum there from people you already know 1/2 is scum of? And, as posted, if we do NOT lynch a cop claimer, either the situation resolves itself tonight (good for us), scum lose a KP (good for us, and back to same situation tomorrow with more information), or we have 1 more protected townie than we otherwise would have. There is no magical terrible apocalypse if we let the two claimers live. All we gotta do is lynch scum. Same as what you tried to do D1, same as what we tried to do D2, same as what we did D3. Same as every day in mafia. I don't see why an 11-man town with 1 confirmed townie and a 1-1 split on two others can't find scum. Take VE out, take Koshi/solstice out. That's 8 peeps, 5/3 town scum. Any townie knows they are town, 4/3 town scum. I'd much rather trust myself to be able to find scum in a 4/3 split even after removing some people that the cops affect than take what I currently consider to be a gamble on koshi/solstice. | ||
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On October 07 2013 08:25 WaveofShadow wrote: Yaya, and you should. The end of that game was the BEST because I actually got to solve the game.How do you keep making that mistake? Also I just realized something. The effort Austin is putting in to solving this game---under any other circumstances would give me a massive extra huge mega fucking Look at my play D1 and D2 in that game. I like playing town. I like the puzzle and trying to solve the game. I was awful in that game as mafia until I got to pretend I was a townie and hunt 3P. My activity ticked up and my play improved the moment I got to do the part of the game I like, trying to solve game. Also...I don't know that how I play scum after claiming scum and thinking the game was over is indicative of my normal scum play | ||
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VA cannot be the last MCB. Okay with the Palmar lynch, let it go through ezpz, not on Palmar's team. rayn cannot be the last MCB. snb pushes Palmar hard, Palmar and rayn have a fight over something small. Again, I found Palmar's being very active for that, and very active for discussing his vote, but not active for other stuff to be NAUGHTY. I don't think he fights with a scumbuddy like that and they also have snb push Palmar hard. YES, it would result in a Palmar flip making both his buddies look good, but it's too crucial to why Palmar's activity spikes were scummy for it to also be good scum strat. That's TOO next level. Koshi cannot be the last MCB. Koshi would have fakeclaimed as cop and been cool with the Palmar lynch. He's got no reason to fakeclaim, knowing he'll die, in order to allow a scumbuddy to get lynched. Those three are 100% not the last MCB. Leaving Cheese/Pandain/CR/Oats. Again, WoS is tossed out for now and he's actually town in this world because solstice is town in this world. Anyone take issue with clearing those three people as last MCB in a world where solstice is mafia/in general? | ||
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Says he doesn't want to lynch Palmar, because Palmar will get shot as either alignment. On October 02 2013 02:57 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Feeling rings truish, honest. There were a number of people saying that, "Oh man, if Palmar is scum he'll totally find the other scum team so no worries brah, they'll shoot him!" That's D2. Nah, don't lynch Shaio. I'm more inclined to believe that scum would vote one of the main wagons instead of trying to divert attention onto me. Unless both of his buddies are up for lynch or something. My picture of scum SP is going: "Yeah FT (insert name of other scummy candidate with votes here) is really scummy we should lynch him totes 100%" and put an additional vote on the guy to save himself. Not concrete, but I'd rather lynch Hiro or FT. Palmar seems like he'll get shot regardless of alignment considering there are two scumteams lol. I'll switch to FT for now ----> back after class ##Unvote ##Vote: FirmTofu On October 03 2013 06:36 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: snb flips, cheese drops this. Gut is that the third scum doesn't do this, they have a townie snatch the low-hanging fruit. SnB's flip points to FirmTofu being scum, ezpz. Palmar most certainly isn't in that scumteam cus SnB was going hard for him. I'll vote FT again for great justice. ##Vote: FirmTofu Plus, 5 minutes later we get this: On October 03 2013 06:41 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: This actually makes it look like cheese is spending time reading through snb associations. Like, at 6:36 he notes that snb was pushing Palmar. 5 minutes later, notes that Pandain was town on snb. Pandain might be scum. Had a townread on SnB, and a townread on me for some unexplained reason. Wouldn't expect town Pandain to give me a townread like that. I think the posts being split shows he was actually working through something, not posting a "Lol I'm mafia let's give out fake reads based on a flip" post. ymmv. Then, when people start talking about vote-swapping, his posts read townie: On October 05 2013 04:50 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: I can phone vote from work. FT should be modkilled. I agree on another lynch: more information for us. If FT does last min vote policy lynch. On October 05 2013 04:54 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Im not switching to vayne. On October 05 2013 04:55 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Ehh fuck it just lynch FT. On October 05 2013 04:57 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Palmars got enough votes. Dont lynch VA. Im fine with palmar if FT is getting modfucked. On October 05 2013 04:59 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Says he's okay with a swap. Mentioned earlier in the day that VA probably town. I don't think that he eases into the swap to Palmar like this, just floats along, if he's scum with Palmar. He has the options of: (1) not swapping; or (2) saying he won't swap to Palmar because Palmar will get shot. Instead, he swaps to Palmar.##unvote ##vote: Palmar Ft better die. At the point Cheese STARTS talking about swapping, it's FT 4 / Palmar 5 / VA 3, and cheese is on FT. Stuff happens, VE goes back to FT noting that we don't know a modkill is inc. It's like 5/5 ish or some nonsense? 5/5 looks right. Cheese does NOT have to move his vote, it's 5/5 and if he's buddies with Palmar he can stay on FT no problem. But instead, he moves his vote. And VE moves just afterward. Cheese basically voted to kill Palmar with 1 minute remaining, when he could have stayed on a given scumread in FT. And his vote, but for VE's vote, either got Palmar lynched or broke a tie that would have gone in someone's favor. Without more comment from him, without any fighting of the lynch on Palmar, he's not the last MCB. | ||
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On October 07 2013 08:53 raynpelikoneet wrote: So either Koshi gets shot, making the lynch easy and 100% on scum tomorrow.I want to kill Solstice because that guarantees there will be protection on Koshi the next night. If we do not kill either of them, Koshi will be either shot or there will be no confirmed townies (in case scum leave him alive). Again we are going to be guessing on the next day, even if we lynched scum today. OR We have no confirmed townies and we're back in the same spot. Except we lynched someone and got a flip, and people probably died overnight and we have flips, or scum shoot CR or something and he actually has a vest and wears it and confirms himself or other nonsense. We either have a 100% lynch tomorrow, or a MORE CERTAIN lynch, due to bonus info. And if you think solstice is mafia, either he dies overnight or mafia loses 1 KP to protect him. | ||
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snb never mentions him palmar has a number of mentions. In particular, this exchange: + Show Spoiler + On September 27 2013 18:52 Oatsmaster wrote: Yeah I agree with you palmar. hiro has been not pushing people with questions. The thing is palmar, neither are you. On September 27 2013 18:56 Palmar wrote: I can't tell if you're dumb, lazy or maliciously ignorant Oats, which is it? On September 27 2013 19:29 Oatsmaster wrote: OR CORRECT. HAH. so answer the question. On September 27 2013 20:01 Palmar wrote: Which question? I don't see anything in our recent conversation that suggests you were asking me something? On September 27 2013 20:16 Oatsmaster wrote: Smells like genuine back and forth, imo? There is no question. Good job Palmar. The whole rayn/palmar slapfight was set off in part by rayn's read on oats. Calls oats town for being confrontational/asshole, later notes that oats was passive during palmar/rayn fight night (as a way of saying oats looked scummier, by implication), later later says his read on oats has gotten less townie but still not anywhere near the lynch point. On D3 or whatever, says oats looks townier for actually getting involved during something that day. He's not only fighting with rayn over oats, he's got a read on oats that he puts in thread multiple times, and gives reasons for changes in. Does not FEEL like scumbuddies, based on that. As far as the man himself goes, he basically never mentions snb in any legitimate reason (calls for an RNG lynch on snb at one point). Guh. Just look at oats's actual MENTIONS of palmar. It doesn't fit: On September 27 2013 13:31 Oatsmaster wrote: If WoS gets to insult me, I get to call him out on it. I think yamato's hardheadness and seriousness makes him towny, but there are some things that seem weird to me. BH has been completely useless so null. Whats your read on Palmar? I think he's town myself but he hasnt done much besides joke around and promote RNG. On September 27 2013 14:35 Oatsmaster wrote: Hi yamato. Whats your read on Palmar and why? On September 27 2013 23:17 Oatsmaster wrote: I believe that you are taking those great words out of context. Rayn ok, what makes Palmar scum. On September 29 2013 03:02 Oatsmaster wrote: fuck man rayn, you have to explain Palmar being scum more than you dont like his read on WoS. He's continuously pointing people AT Palmar. He jokes with Palmar. He heavily FOCUSES on Palmar. On D3, oats is the second vote onto Palmar with this: On October 03 2013 14:14 Oatsmaster wrote: Fuck time to look townie and do retarded shit. GUYS LYNCH PALMAR. ##vote Palmar I could basically vote for anyone at this point other than Koshi/Pandain/solstice/WoS And somewhat backs it up, poking around again: On October 03 2013 14:15 Oatsmaster wrote: So WoS/koshi/Pandain/soltice, why not palmar? On October 03 2013 14:30 Oatsmaster wrote: Palmar is scum because his reasoning for not lynching FT was because Rayn was on him. Except that Rayn could be scum and FT could be scum from different scumteams. Thats a horrific reason to not lynch your top scumread. On October 03 2013 14:50 Oatsmaster wrote: Mini =/= large game. Look at the last large game I played, and Ignore day 2. Does day 1 look like town Oats? Also you still havent said why you dont want to lynch Palmar. Then veers onto FT, and starts calling Palmar town out of nowhere: On October 04 2013 14:25 Pandain wrote: Oats I'm noting a lot of contradictions in your play Can you also explain this? On October 04 2013 14:38 Oatsmaster wrote: Palmar is totally town though. Lol you are funny Pandain. First quote, I decided that my feelings were wrong and that Yamato was scum. 2nd and 3rd quote make 0 sense if you are calling me mafia for it. Explain why you think that the 2nd and 3rd quotes are scummy Please Pandain. On October 04 2013 14:38 Oatsmaster wrote: FT might be town but probably is scum. And I dont want to lynch Vayne or Palmar. On October 04 2013 14:47 Oatsmaster wrote: 1. cause its fun 2. Cause its fun Otherwise, I think FT is the most likely to flip scum at this pont in the game. I think Vayne and Palmar are town. On October 04 2013 14:49 Oatsmaster wrote: I think Vayne is playing stupid enough to be town, same with Palmar. Palmar wanting to piss off rayn seems to be a townie thing to do. Lynch was 10/5 5:00 TL time. So while Oats is now off Palmar and calling him town, it's like...13 hours before lynch. He's around just over an hour before lynch, but no posts right around lynch time, so nothing from him regarding the actual voteswitch itself. Conclusions: Oats possible, but I don't like. Very very jokey with Palmar, strongly pushing people to look directly at the Palmar (while calling him townie on D1). If MCBOats wants town cred from pushing people at Palmar, focusing Palmar, then he needs to be SCUMMY on Palmar. Him being townie and pushing people at Palmar will make him look worse. His D3 votes/pushes are odd but not the absolute worst. He's early on Palmar, gets off early for FT, before Palmar really gains traction. Not around at lynch time. It's a flag, being on scum and moving off onto town and suddenly calling your earlier vote town again (town D1 --> scummy --> back to town D3), but, in my mind, it does not outweigh his focus on Palmar early. It appears much more that Palmar, and reading Palmar, was a focal point of Oats's game (if oats is town). Possible, but very unlikely imo. Better fit than koshi/rayn/cheese/va | ||
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On October 07 2013 09:15 WaveofShadow wrote: Fakeable, yes. If nothing else, it's just a pile of words. It's a fun story to tell about the two of you in QT. Not the EASIEST thing to fake, but easier to fake a summary than real posts. I can also note that I changed some QT posts and deleted some when I posted scum logs in PTP4, and did so on the fly (as did kita, he changed some things), so i HAVE doctored logs before, and it wasn't the hardest thing ever. He's had enough time today to doctor if he wanted to.Aaaanyway. Honestly while I do appreciate the effort being put forth, I still don't think the benefits outweigh the risks in trying to determine the MCB. Especially in a game where so many people are playing so well as both alignments (clearly). Solstice is the safe play here and I WILL be taking it. Now VE said something about homework? I'm supposed to grill people or some shit? I did so much of that to solstice last night and Koshi, well....I don't even know what else to say about him. That massive QT paraphrasing really convinced me. Like...as much effort as it takes to write up something like that, the sheer amount of effort it would take to FABRICATE something like that, make it seem coherent and following conversational directions, input from mods, disagreements.... Like, there is no fucking way in hell Koshi could have faked that. Austin, do you believe something like that is fakeable? Currently I'm back on the Koshi cop and solstice scum side of the fence, between that chunk of stuff, Koshi's finally being angry, and really looking back at some of Koshi's posts. Koshi went ALL OUT claiming, telling people rayn was 100%, couple other things, like...the checks he claims to have made show in HIS posts. With solstice, some of the checks he claims the team made show up in HIRO'S posts. That's important to me because scum, upon seeing Hiro flip, may have tried to look for who he copped. If scum look at Hiro's reads before and after certain nights, they might well pull up posts like "dude scum" --> "no wait, maybe I was wrong, getting a much townier vibe now". There's something to be said for Koshi's support coming from Koshi posts, whereas solstice's support comes, in part, from Hiro's posts, that scum would have been wanting to check out. As far as effort, whatever, this is good. I will probably still try to get people to lynch non-cops. I still think it's best, given that I may be leaning one way but am not sure. Whichever of them is mafia or cop or whatever, still other scum to find. And neither is likely 3rd MCB choice. Honestly, look at the above posts. Look at the rules and then these last few reads. Do you see any likely options other than Pandain or CR (with you as an outside third atm) in Koshi-cop-town, of Pandain or CR in solstice-cop-town? I fully disagree that it's impossible to, at the very least, heavily narrow down who could be the remaining one-man team. | ||
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On October 07 2013 09:30 Pandain wrote: No. He looks to have a legitimate "Palmar will get shot, who cares" feeling, to me.Also Austin all your post says for CC not being MCB is that he bussed him last minute. Oh shit no way? Also do you think I'm scum and if so say why. He looks like he's actively looking for SnB connections after SnB flips. Agree? Disagree? And it's not that CC got Palmar killed last minute. It's that CC got Palmar killed last minute WHEN HE DIDN'T HAVE TO AT ALL. Heck, look at how he talks about his own switch: On October 05 2013 06:46 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: I thought ft was claiming scum by being silent. Just look at cephiro in noir (sorry)... Silent dudes gettingvtes are often scum cus they dont want to give information away. Was just bad, then. I cared about the lynch, but ft needed to go. If i didnt care i wouldnt have switched to palmar to get an extra kill. I was debating it due to not knowing if ft was going to be modkilled. On October 05 2013 08:15 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: He doesn't take CREDIT for Palmar being lynched. When solstice says "maybe you're mafia," he explains his switch WITHOUT SAYING "Ummmm, I swapped and got Palmar killed? How am I maf maf?" He doesn't say "I didn't lynch vayne because I VOTED FOR MAFIA." I didnt want to lynch vayne because ft and palmar were better lynches. Thr defence in his filter looked good too when i looked at his filter Bussing only works if you come off looking good from it. Cheese didn't bus Palmar, otherwise he'd at least be INSINUATING that he's town because he helped kill Palmar. And he later attacks oats for oats's posts that mention Palmar. He's concerned with others' (or feigning concern) relationship with Palmar, but NOT PUSHING HIS OWN. That's not a bus. | ||
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On October 07 2013 09:46 Pandain wrote: At the time Cheese swapped, the vote was 5-5. I didn't supercheck on which hit 5 first, because the votes got wonky.Using a "Palmar will get shot" defense for a scum buddy is one of the best things I could think of. Very unlikely he will get shot as scum is trying to get rid of confirmed townies and the other scum, so they won't 'just' shoot a vet. Yeah he did, and he got the connection that "Palmar is not SnB". Hmmmm. As I've said before there isn't that much to gain, he also said I was scum for calling SnB town when he was very much so town in my eyes for good reasons. Palmar was going to get lynched, not enough people believed me in Vayne. Wasn't the eventual vote like 7-3? Cheese stayed out of all conversation for the flip until the end, in my eyes because he was forced to switch to the only other viable choice or come out suspicious. I agree your point though about not taking credit is interesting. I thought about WoS as a possible choice for the last MCB. Very determined to avoid Palmar and only laid suspicion on Vayne and FT, wouldn't switch to even Palmar despite me showing that FT was town. My only caveat was that I was pretty sure that he was scum with Vayne but maybe it's not too hard to just assume that he wanted to make sure FT got lynched over Palmar. And at end he tried to with Vayne before it was certain Palmar would get lynched. Do you agree Vayne is scum? It ended up 7-3. From 5-5, cheese made it 6-4, and then VE made it 7-3. So while it ends up lopsided looking, cheese at 1 minute til lynch DID take it from 5-5 to 6-4. Ensured that a single last minute swap couldn't save Palmar. Just an unnecessary swap imo if he's scum. The WoS points are why I was pushing WoS, specifically because he looked like he could be the MCB, even more than just plain old regular scum. Yes. VA is 100% mafia in my mind. But not the MCB. | ||
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On October 07 2013 10:01 s0Lstice wrote: Neither cop claimer is likely.Austin, you have said I'm likely not the last MCB if scum right? The person who fakeclaims cop is 100% MEGA SUPER DEAD. Like, that particular person is NOT living til endgame (other cop will kill them, or mafia will kill real cop, or town lynches one, etc. etc.). The last MCB needs to try and win/hide. Not go all-in on a fakeclaim that ENSURES they die. The only time to ever do that would be when they could endgame, and then last MCB can't endgame here and KNOWS town will be gunning for them. | ||
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So nope, I don't like that. And yes, you guys would be on the same team if you're scum. Me not liking him cutting bait so hard if you're both together isn't nearly as powerful as some of the other assumptions I'm working under --> neither of you can be MCB to me. For you it's suicide to claim cop as MCB. For him, he does nothing at all to even hint at saving Palmar. If you're scum, you're same team. Nope, don't love it. But look at the conclusions I draw above. Each of my teams has you guys together. I don't have to love it, but if you're scum and I'm right on him, he IS just distancing, and decided that there's no hope of saving you. | ||
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On October 07 2013 10:26 s0Lstice wrote: Read the post. By that logic, scum would be trying to save you. Yes. But VE's not mafia, I'm not mafia, WoS is possibly mafia, but frankly nobody else is really trying, just possibly interested. So by that logic there are two people in thread who are trying to save me right now? Who are they? Except...post. Yes, by that logic, people would be trying to save you. But in the end, I conclude the likely scumteams if you're scum all contain you + VA. Not that my conclusions are wrong, or that you're town, but that scum just isn't trying to save you, and ultimately VA COULD be on your team. That it's more likely than alternatives. | ||
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On October 07 2013 10:46 s0Lstice wrote: Yup. So despite the fact that your own presented evidence does not very well support the idea of me and Vayne being on the same team, you still conclude that we are in the end because its the least shitty of shitty options. Yet over here ----> (+ Show Spoiler + hi im s0Lstice and I am the mother fucking cop Welcome to my day. | ||
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Then tell me whether you agree or not. Please? If nothing else, do it cuz I say you aren't, and cuz we were scumbros just a little while ago. | ||
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On October 07 2013 11:23 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: And do the other players make sense for NOT the last?Pandain or CR makes sense for last banger, totes. | ||
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And you don't even notice one of the beautiful garnishes. I FRIED THAT PARSLEY FOR YOU. I FRIED THAT PARSLEY AND YOU DIDN'T EVEN NOTICE. WHY DO I EVEN FRY PARSLEY ANYMORE FOR YOU? | ||
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If it's Koshi, it's just...people kept saying Koshi cop Koshi cop? And it hit some tipping point where he decided he had to claim? If it's solstice, rather than just say "nope, never PMed cheesecake he's making this up and trying to all-in on this," he claims COP after not counterclaiming. Neither timing makes boatloads of sense to me. | ||
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On October 07 2013 12:03 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Are you on board with lynching non-cop scum?I just hope we lynch the correct guy. If S0lstice is real cop and is lynched, we're pretty fucked. | ||
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You on board for lynching non-cop scum? | ||
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On October 07 2013 12:20 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Well, you're ALREADY paranoid if that's the case.No we are going to lynch cops because if neither dies I'm going to be so fucking paranoid if the confirms are actually confirmed or not. Like...if they're both alive tomorrow, no different from both being alive today. It's another day of FUN and TOGETHERNESS and WINNING FOR TOWN | ||
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On October 07 2013 12:25 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Knowledge comes from not lynching cop.YES I'm already paranoid if that isn't obvious enough. I want ALL THE KNOWLEDGE right now. Possibly losing comes from lynching cop. | ||
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If solstice, protect somebody. Right now the roles are to maybe affect stuff TONIGHT if we don't lynch them, and also totes die so that we know which set of brosephs are town. Which is one reason rayn's focus on the fact that koshi might omg die tonight how badz irks me. If koshi dies, he gets confirmed, things are GOOD. Because it's not like Koshi is running around doing boatloads of stuff at this point. | ||
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On October 07 2013 13:09 Pandain wrote: Barely. I looked at thread a little too much earlier.Austin are you here? Whassup? | ||
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For anyone who's around overnight, including you atm since you're involved here, plox to comment on whether you agree with some of the folks I'm ruling out. I still feel awk about pandain/you as last MCB because of the weird Palmar vote/unvote. On October 05 2013 02:53 Pandain wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote Palmar ##Unvote ##Vote VA There now he should be in the lead This is just over 2 hours until lynch. I had JUST posted this: On October 05 2013 02:48 austinmcc wrote: As best I can tell, it's 5/5/1 right now, FirmTofu/Palmar/VA. FirmTofu hit 5 first. CR is on VA, FT and VE still no votes? I think that's correct. Either he's actually okay with a Palmar lynch, and is REALLY trying to stay on VA while getting Palmar in the lead, or he makes a relatively quick call (5 minutes between my post and his, without any posts from him in the couple minutes before to indicate he's 100% in thread), to put Palmar in the lead. And again, it's like with Cheesecake. Pandain would essentially be putting Palmar in a better spot to get lynched (this was before all the modkill discussion), without trying to get any credit. He doesn't actually VOTE, he doesn't run around yelling about what he did (that's my job!). So he's got a weird Palmar-scum except I'd rather lynch other scum read (SUPER SCUMMY AND INDICATOR OF MCB) BUT BUT BUT BUT BUT BUT He backed it up with that vote. He didn't just post "I'm okay with Palmar but rather VA," he backed it up by voting VA AND manipulating the vote so that Palmar got bumped to 6 and then back down. Further lookin' and thoughts tomorrow, but seriously...that vote/unvote nonsense. That's someone actually trying to put Palmar in the lead. | ||
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On October 07 2013 13:16 Pandain wrote: I think it's wrong. What do you think about the argument that you could conceivably be on a scum-team with s0lstice and trying to save him? I also think that if I were on a scumteam with solstice, I wouldn't be in here doing this. I would be in QT raging at him for claiming cop, because before he did that he COULD have just gone with "cheesecake is lying. look at how he pushed oats for a mislynch, because koshi greenchecked oats, cheesecake clearly mafia and just trying to get a misllynch." Ask Cheesecake. ObviousOne decides to shoot ... debears in Aperture 3. We started spamming QT about how that was a bad idea. And I voted a scumbuddy when I could have saved him, just because I'm super paranoid and don't like saving scumbuddies when they lock themselves up with a weird claim/action. You can all go read that QT if you'd like I wouldn't be trying to save solstice here, I'd be raging in QT and cutting bait here. Also, I don't care if people argue that. Because I trust myself to find scum here outside of the cops. I trust myself to have already found scum and presented them to thread. People can argue all they want that I'm scum with solstice. But if you lynch my target (currently still CR), you'll hit scum. I don't care if people make that argument because I can back up my townie PM with a scum lynch. Same with pushing Palmar yesterday. Same with telling people not to lynch Ft or shiaopi. Heck, I didn't actually get to push push it because I wasn't active and didn't have traction yet, but I got pooped on for suggesting a solstice lynch D2 over SP or FT. If we're buddies, I, at the very least, passed on an easy town/town lynch to suggest my scumbuddy for lynch. No sense. | ||
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On October 08 2013 00:19 VisceraEyes wrote: ExceptLike..... Maybe we should just lynch Koshi and #YOLO On October 01 2013 00:58 s0Lstice wrote: right well I'm here, taking me awhile to catch up. I'm about to say fuck it and just start playing from here on (with a helpful summary for pages 40-now from someone) but we'll see how much time I get tonight. I didn't want to say much without having a complete picture of the goings on but if that means I never start talking then it's no good. from what I've read I don't like hiro, or Oats. Cheesecakes weird pressure vote on Oats bothered me as well. hiro for his entrance into the thread and early passivity (agree with Palmar's points here). Oats (at least up to where I stopped) hasn't started tunneling anyone yet, and is doing his 'drop a question into a bucket' thing he does as scum. I saw him engaging with the thread but had trouble figuring out what he was hoping to get from his questions and/or didn't see what he was doing with the answers he got. There's some rumblings for FT. Nothing struck me as odd about him from what I read. I'll look closer tonight. On October 02 2013 01:09 s0Lstice wrote: like I said earlier I did get up to page 40 or so. still don't like the FT lynch. didn't see anything in his filter that screamed scum to me. from what I saw I would like to lynch hiro On October 02 2013 04:19 s0Lstice wrote: @austin: tell me how I express guilt, specifically as it retains to an internet forum. you must know as it's important to your read on me. ##vote hiro protagonist All my townreads for the most part are on FT and that makes me not want to sheep after all | ||
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On October 08 2013 00:26 s0Lstice wrote: Both your stories have merit and oddities.Which do you think put more effective, convincing distance between the two players involved? Was I putting hiro in danger? Would ANYBODY think that he and I were linked after my early actions? Exactly. Yours is the weaker story, imo. On October 08 2013 00:27 WaveofShadow wrote: The part I don't understand IF solstice were MCB is the claim itself.OK I see. It seems weird that he stated it as an absolute but I technically it was the first thought I had regarding this. My original theory is Solstice is MCB, used a KP on you and Payphone to try and YOLO the fuck out of everyone because sitting and waiting to lose sucks and he didn't have it in him to try and hide for 2-3 days. Especially if he thinks he was already found out by the other scumteam. I just don't see why that theory makes any less sense than Solstice being on ballers. He payphones, trying to hook up with the other scum team, sure, npnp. But then he gets outed as sending cheesecake a message. The FIRST thing he does is CLAIM COP. His very very very first response to being called out is the single thing that will 1000000% get him killed as mafia. He has no chance to win now. He dies if people don't trust his claim. He dies if Koshi ever flips. He is super duper dead. There is no wiggle room left, no hiding, he's out in the sun and there is no way he makes it til endgame. If solstice were the MCB, he wouldn't ensure his death like that. He just goes "cc lying, big scum play." Then he forces the lynch between himself and cc (if we assume a similar 1 on 1 scenario), where he's fighting a dude that might well be scum and NOT the claimed cop. If he can get cc lynched, and especially if cc flips scum, TA DA. (Putting aside that it doesn't make sense for scum cc on 3 man team to out scum solstice on 1 man team, leading to solstice death, leading to 1 team of KP tonight) | ||
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On October 08 2013 00:43 raynpelikoneet wrote: He did NOT have to claim cop.Guys you are looking it the wrong way. We do not know what motivation Solstice had to contact Mr.CC. But it doesn't matter. What matters is that when he DID contact him, he HAD to claim cop because that was his only option. Also he did not counter-claim Koshi in the first place, and let him run around "confirming" townies. That's all the evidence we need. He is mafia. He had the option of saying CC was lying. | ||
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On October 08 2013 00:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: Solstice the MCB doesn't care.Yes but if you fight against Mr.CC rather than Koshi, the cop is confirmed and so are the townies. He's one man. He's all alone, like VE was with the bear earlier. You're saying that solstice, as the last man on his scumteam, would go for the play where he puts suspicion on koshi's townies for a day BUT GETS 1000000% KILLED. He absolutely loses if he goes for this play. If he calls out cc, he fights against cc rather than koshi, has confirmed townies lying around, but he doesn't 100000% die. If he's the one-man team, not 10000% dying is better than having a harder lategame. | ||
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On October 08 2013 00:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: I got burnt out last night, but in my head I still like pandain not-MCB, and CR probably MCB.Solstice is from the 3 man team. Pandain is the last banger dude. | ||
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On October 08 2013 01:09 raynpelikoneet wrote: Bold is not true. If you think Koshi is cop, you need to look at N3 and the start of D4, before cop time.Vayne is cool. He's been consistent the whole game. He writed good posts and his train of thought has been solid the whole game. He's pretty likely town. Buncha brosephs calling oats mafia, oats probably mafia, likely mafia, etc. etc. If Koshi is cop and oats is town, oats is clearly being set up as a mislynch. N3 ends, Koshi confirms oats. LOOK AT THE MOMENTS RIGHT AFTER THAT. Mafia was sitting pretty with an oats lynch, delicious delicious oats lynch. But now oats is town? UH OH. PLAN RUINED. One of the newbie guides or ace quotes or things i'm making up in my head is that the worst thing for scum is when a plan gets derailed. What happens when the oats-mislynch plan is derailed?
That's the single biggest instance where VA not just has a bad train of thought, but has a bad train of thought IN RESPONSE to the oats mislynch being asploded. And he tries to defend it even when it's indefensible. Town is delighted that a likely mislynch got avoided last night. Mafia is horrified. VA focuses on trying to downplay what town got out of the check. | ||
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On October 08 2013 01:20 raynpelikoneet wrote: It makes total sense if you're not entirely sure and you have stronger mafia reads elsewhere (or you want people to not tunnel).That's pretty WIFOMy. Also Austin's defence and "let's not kill either of them" makes zero sense. The cop situation resolves itself overnight OR scum worries about cop powers AND we have them around for tomorrow's lynch with more information. | ||
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On October 08 2013 01:29 raynpelikoneet wrote: If Vayne is town and Koshi is the cop, he should be HAPPY that Koshi confirmed a dude that was gonna get lynched.So if Vayne is town and thinks Koshi is the cop should he still be pushing Oats lynch? I don't even know what you are trying to say.. D4 = lynch oats N3 = koshi confirms oats D4 NOW = HOLY CRAP DON'T LYNCH A GUY THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN TOWN That's a GOOD thing (for town). Vayne is NOT happy that we avoided a mislynch. Vayne is hoping he can undermine the check. Vayne is misrepresenting how oats was gonna get got. At the very least, Vayne should try and confirm there are no loopholes (paranoid, can be townie), but he shouldn't be pushing super hard to find them and arguing that the situation wasn't what it was. | ||
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On October 08 2013 01:41 raynpelikoneet wrote: It's not whether VA is a good or bad scum player or anything. I don't care about that in this case right here.So Vayne as scum blames Koshi for confirming his mislynch target? How does that make sense? Like is Vayne in your opinion such a bad scumplayer? Here's the thing. You say that doesn't make sense. But it's exactly what happened. On October 06 2013 05:27 VayneAuthority wrote: that is why that was a horrible shot koshi. I expected better tbh! On October 06 2013 05:48 VayneAuthority wrote: I thought that the bulletproof vest made it so that cop couldn't tell the difference between town/mafia I misread it. and oats was a prime bulletproof target He tells Koshi that Koshi took a "horrible shot." Because it's a horrible shot to confirm someone that town was gonna mislynch. You can say VA is a better scum player than to say something like that, but the fact is, TOWNIES DON'T THINK IT'S A HORRIBLE THING TO CONFIRM A GUY THAT WAS GONNA GET MISLYNCHED. People make mistakes. Scum partway slip sometimes, sometimes they get caught with a split-second scum thought. In my experience, it happens most often during last minute lynches/moments before uncertain lynches, and right after something big happens. In this case, something big happens that was GOOD FOR TOWN. VA fights it, blames the cop (all of these assume Koshi cop) for averting a mislynch, and then continues to spew nonsense and make it seem like this isn't good/might not be 100%. Fantastic scum players still make scummy posts. Fantastic scum players still get caught. I don't care if VA is the best scum in the world. What I care about is that the thought progression he shows at the start of today is NOT townie. It's the scum response to what happened. Whatever his mafia play or town play are, he actual posts and his reaction show that he has a scum mindset. | ||
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On October 08 2013 01:56 VayneAuthority wrote: That would make sense if your initial reaction was, say, this:thing is austin doesnt realize my motivation for that. it's not from scum, it's wow I was wrong about oats this is gay and no way i can be wrong! On October 06 2013 05:43 VayneAuthority wrote: I thought oats was scummy, oats looking scummy, but man...I was wrong.and that is pretty annoying if oats if town he isn't doing any crazy shit this game That's a TOWNIE post. That's a TOWNIE reaction, if you really thought oats was scummy. Man he looked bad, I need to go rework my reads. But instead, your reaction is On October 06 2013 05:27 VayneAuthority wrote: that is why that was a horrible shot koshi. I expected better tbh! Not that you're angry about the shot, upset about the confirmation, 16 minutes BEFORE you go "well, sucks that I was wrong." After getting called out on it, you tried to fix your reaction. But your initial reaction was the scummy one, and NOT "oh man, can't believe I was wrong about oats." | ||
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On October 08 2013 02:04 raynpelikoneet wrote: As far as vests go, yes.Nah Austin, you are wrong. Vayne misread the rules. As far as oats being a good/bad shot, that's not a rules thing. On October 08 2013 02:05 VayneAuthority wrote: scumaustinmcc has never tunneled you afaik.why every game the scums tunnel me | ||
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On October 08 2013 02:12 raynpelikoneet wrote: It would be good if you could come to the CORRECT solution though.That's pretty fucking good! Now we solve this game in next 26h. | ||
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On October 08 2013 02:17 raynpelikoneet wrote: I'd rather lynch CR.Austin wanna lynch Pandain instead of Sol? Last banger is CR/Pandain/WoS. Most likely CR I believe. | ||
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On October 08 2013 02:27 raynpelikoneet wrote: ARAM and also writing I post where I tell you that you can make SENSE with your pushes/reads but they can still be wrong. But I don't like the way it comes out, really, and it's not currently helpful to finding scum.Why are Austin and Vayne so silent? Don't you guys have anything to say? Why? | ||
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On October 08 2013 02:30 raynpelikoneet wrote: Negotiating never harmful. Following through on something POSSIBLY harmful, but who knows?You two, explain to me how is negotiating with Solstice harmful to the town? | ||
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On October 08 2013 02:30 raynpelikoneet wrote: Also Austin, which of my pushes has been wrong? You were scummy on both ShiaoPi and FT. Voted them D2, were willing to vote FT D3. However, you were scummy on palmar, and seemed mixed on oats which is alright. To the extent you're pushing me, you're wrong again. To the extent you're pushing pandain scum and VA town, i THINK you're wrong, but we'll have to see flips. | ||
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Please read my filter. Like...the filter. Read it. ESPECIALLY those of you who think I'm mafia with s0lstice. Dear Everyone Who Thinks I Might Be Scum Because I'm Trying Not To Lynch s0lstice Earlier Today, Please read any number of my games. Whistle whistle whistle. On October 02 2013 03:29 austinmcc wrote: Don't want to lynch FT or ShiaoPi. Happy with Koshi, Solstice, probably CR, possibly Pandain. ##vote: s0Lstice Hiro, could you share some thoughts on people who aren't FT and ShiaoPi? Maybe take a look at rayn/palmar arguing, a peek at CR, and whatchoo thinkin' bout solstice? On October 02 2013 03:30 raynpelikoneet wrote: Now wtf is this... That's like, no... austin? On October 02 2013 03:53 strongandbig wrote: THIS PROVES NOTHING. Austin are you really planning on going allin on a last-hour-before-deadline switch to solstice? You're gonna have to persuade me that none of ft, shiaopi, or va are scum, and I'm currently of the opinion that at least one of them and probably two is/are. Like, if you're serious this is gonna take an effort. Or are you just trying to about taking a stance. You've said why you don't think ft is scum but you're gonna need to give us more than "I usually think shiaopi is town" and "no comment on va" before you can just abstain out of this lynch. However, it means that there are interactions in my filter that you are not considering. Folks are making scummy or lazy reads on me because OMG he didn't want to lynch s0lstice today. Turns out though I've been playing other days and nights in this game, made posts, and you can read them. I'm neither on a scum team with s0lstice NOR on the opposite team. | ||
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On October 08 2013 02:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: It doesn't mean MUCH. 100% agree there.lol Austin. Your "push" on Solstice didn't mean shit because you were the sole vote on him and the lynch was already decided. But boy howdy it sure looks like I might have made posts on solstice earlier. It looks like we had interactions. Maybe someone interested in figuring out my alignment would look at them. | ||
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On October 08 2013 03:02 raynpelikoneet wrote: Get fooled by mafia once, shame on mafia.Yeah, i also thought SnB and Palmar were not in the same team. Oh boy how wrong was i. Get fooled by mafia once, respond by refusing to look at certain information that may be generally useful in determining alignments, shame on you. Old saying. Yup. They were on the same team. Doesn't make information worthless. | ||
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On October 08 2013 03:07 s0Lstice wrote: look at this vote with no explanation scum + Show Spoiler + jk It's okay, baby. You had me at, "I'm actually blue and royally screwed everything up trying to entrap the whole scum team, and now am getting lynched." | ||
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On October 08 2013 03:07 raynpelikoneet wrote: Naw.No if the KP becomes town!KP + we get valuable info. What you're saying is, "If mafia volunteers to use KP against the other mafia team, and in a pro-town way, but with no way of town actually policing that this WILL happen, then we let him." It also assumes that you can get one mafia team to play pro-town. At this point, if he's outed, he can't win. Someone will take him out before he can get to a kingmaker scenario, whichever side would be in a better position at the last moment with no-solstice than with kingmaker. | ||
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On October 08 2013 03:13 WaveofShadow wrote: Then we'll find out with flipI've already explained why that isn't true and isn't fair. (What was dumb imo was the payphone in the first place...) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What if FAKE PAYPHONE AND CC SCUM WITH SOLSTICE | ||
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On October 08 2013 03:15 s0Lstice wrote: No. I can't win. It's basically impossible so I'd rather sit out. You can win in our hearts. WHY CLAIM COP? | ||
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On October 08 2013 03:17 raynpelikoneet wrote: Don't care. Asked pandain why he was thinking about it because i DO care about his answer.Well GG! I would have lynched you anyways. :D Mr.BigPlays WaveofShadow, why did you think i was gonna let guaranteed mafia live regardless of what he says? Scared of something? Same goes for Austin and to some extent Vayne. Scum there? Plus, the only way to call someone is to explain there's no hope. Then nobody's gonna say anything weird or give themselves up | ||
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Instead, you forced yourself to die. | ||
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On October 08 2013 03:23 raynpelikoneet wrote: Again, i didn't care why you would say that.Why did you guys actually think i would not lynch Solstice? Why in the world would you think so? Why the fuck would i do that as town? Why would anyone do that as town? We had a chance of getting info from him, you guys didn't even try. You know, you can lie in this game.... As town... I care why pandain would say that. | ||
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On October 08 2013 03:29 s0Lstice wrote: I suggest paint and dumb questions. Mainly.what does a boy do for lulz around here anyway?! | ||
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On October 08 2013 03:26 raynpelikoneet wrote: s0lstice isn't dumb either. The whole thing wasn't gonna go anywhere.Because Pandain actually figured out what i was doing. Most likely. Because he is not dumb. | ||
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On October 08 2013 03:32 WaveofShadow wrote: PEER INTO THE DEPTHS OF MAN'S SOUL.And yeah wait a minute wtf? i didn't think it was gonna go anywhere either...? What exactly WERE you trying to do here? Trying to do where? When I ask Pandain why he wouldn't kill the last remaining MCB? See what Pandain's reasoning was. When I don't try to lie to s0lstice and tell him he can win? Save my breath because he'll figure it out. When I ask s0lstice why he claimed cop? Try and figure out why. | ||
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On October 08 2013 03:33 s0Lstice wrote: Here here!this is why he will keep doing it : / i am a firm believer in no lying as town At best, even if it actually works for one person, it encourages other people to do it. Giving examples of lying as town being pro-town just means more lying from town, which then generally ends up being crappy. | ||
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On October 08 2013 03:34 WaveofShadow wrote: P'shaw. Also, that someone else is gonna flip mafia.I meant Rayn. Because I did the same stuff you did. (Except of course I had him voted from the start and was going to lynch him all day and wasn't trying to get town to lynch someone else. ) :D | ||
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On October 08 2013 03:36 WaveofShadow wrote: Yes, CR. With koshi's confirmations, it's down to you/CC/CR/VA/pandain. 2/3 of you/pandain/cc are town. CR and VA totes mafiosi.Who, CR? Well you're in luck because I may be on board for that now, despite his intriguing insights. We'll see what happens with NKs. I won't be using vest again, not that scum gives a shit. On October 08 2013 03:38 raynpelikoneet wrote: Everyone who is town should have "agreed with me" to make Solstice feel comfortable and make him feel like he has higher chances of survival. Instead you shouted the possibly brilliant plan down for no reason. #1 - s0lstice isn't dumb. #2 - If you check my filter, we'd already poked around and gone over numbers on what flips would mean, and I'd written way too much about why the last MCB cannot win. It's why I ruled out cop claimers as MCB, because the MCB in the open cannot win the game period. So I didn't think you were going to get anything AND everyone could go "AMG AUSTINMCC SAID MCB COULDN'T WIN EARLIER NOW SAYS THE MCB CAN WIN IF HE COOPERATES SO INCONSISTENT" | ||
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Do you think s0lstice is dumb? | ||
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On October 08 2013 03:44 raynpelikoneet wrote: I actually found Palmar's burst of activity in this game really similar to that. I called Ace scummy at one point in that game because he was happy to fill the thread with fighting about your nuke claim, but not with decent posts. Palmar was happy to fight with you, but not actually post.Yeah i also thought Ace is not dumb in NWM.... I don't think it's really something to look for, so I didn't put it in anti-Palmar posts. On October 08 2013 03:45 s0Lstice wrote: Hear that? You're confounding the transition, rayn.Naturally but seriously though there are so many confounding variables in the equation. make gambit-->town should react in way X-->those who dont are scum How townies should react is colored by each individual play style and how each person views the game at the moment. This confounds the transition from step 2 to step 3. Townies act suspicious/do not make the smart play all the time and you have no way of accounting for that. | ||
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On October 08 2013 04:16 WaveofShadow wrote: Sunny and 70. Not a shitstorm in the sky. Yup I'm getting there. So Austin! How's the weather where you are? I, for one, am happy that if s0lstice is mafia, we lynched mafia. I am, however, very sad because I thought I might have a brother in role idiocy. But apparently no. | ||
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On October 08 2013 04:20 s0Lstice wrote: It's not the same. Maybe the loch ness monster is out there. But I took a picture of something that had a decent shot of being the monster, and it turned out to be just logs.sorry I might still be an idiot, I just don't know yet. That help?Hear that? YOU'RE LOGS TO ME. | ||
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On October 08 2013 04:22 WaveofShadow wrote: My first game as DT was my only ban from the forum, because I compared role PMs with another DT-ish role.Role idiocy? No comprende. oh you mean weird bluerole usage? What is it you did when you were talking about that? As a watcher I saw Sandroba kill marv in a game, didn't tell town, gave a huge townread on sandroba and tried to get him to give out more reads. The only game I've ever been mislynched, and I think one of only two times I've been lynched, I was a vet. I held onto that info til the last second cuz I thought I could swing the lynch. When I was Phoenix Wright, I ended up confirming a godfather as town, although they figured that out later. TWICE in PTPish games, I've rolled scum and only used my powers in a pro-town manner. Roles and I just don't seem to agree. | ||
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I'm not qqing. I find it hilarious. | ||
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On October 08 2013 05:09 Koshi wrote: So fucking Pandain is scum. Probably used drive by. Contacted other team. Pandain was getting lynched. S0lstice claimed scum. CC is also scum because it was Pandain who used Payphone to contact Ballers. Fuck scumteams working together. You fuckers are lame. Shoot each other = Thx. On October 07 2013 02:01 phagga wrote: VOTE COUNT: s0Lstice (7) : Mr. Cheesecake, WaveofShadow, VayneAuthority, Chairman Ray, raynpelikoneet, Pandain, Koshi Koshi (2) : s0Lstice, Oatsmaster Chairman Ray (1) : austinmcc, Mr. Cheesecake (0) : Pandain (0) : VayneAuthority (0) : WaveofShadow (0) : Not voting (1) : VisceraEyes + Show Spoiler [Details] +
Lynch is in 27 hours. Voting is mandatory. Currently s0lstice is set to be lynched! If you see your vote (or anyone else') out of place please inform me or someone else on the hosting team so that we can correct it. CR was actually the leading vote-getter. | ||
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On October 08 2013 06:57 VisceraEyes wrote: WELL NOBODY IS COMMENTING SO AT LEAST THE SECOND POST IS SOMEWHAT WORTHWHILE.I KNOW YOUR POSITION AUSTIN YOU FUCK Sorry. And this is something I've been poking at for...72 hours now. And it's finally going to get poked at a little more. So you're gonna have to excuse me commenting/getting hype. | ||
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On October 08 2013 06:58 VisceraEyes wrote: I'll hold off and putter about while you look at him and, I'm assuming, me and maybe others or whatever.I mean uh.....thanks for that austin, but the confTown are speaking.  But holla if you want to try and discuss. I know you don't trust me fully, and I know my position is clear, but I'm actually a rational person and I've done a decent amount of looking back at filters and trying to identify people. | ||
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On October 08 2013 07:03 VisceraEyes wrote: Because the whole reason SnB goes hard on Palmar is to distance himself. They interacted with the intent of creating distance. CR points out that they were distant.No it's fine I was mostly joking anyway. I did open up CR's filter and I disagree. The biggest thing in his filter that I see tying him to the Bangers is his insistence that Palmar and SnB are NOT on the same team, like calls it impossible. So like...why would he say that knowing Palmar has scrutiny on him and COULD be lynched? I'm not saying it's impossible just really unlikely. If he's town, he's just pointing out what mafia wants pointing out. If he's mafia, he's pointing out what mafia wants pointed out. Neither one really feels different to me in this case, just because he insists that Palmar and SnB weren't buddies...like 30+ hours in the day. It had already been mentioned by multiple people, discussed, wasn't any sort of new information. By the time he came to thread, Palmar had votes, was a possible lynch, and it's one way to try and get people off of Palmar while saying he could be scum. | ||
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On October 03 2013 05:47 VayneAuthority wrote: That's a nice flip, I've played scum with SnB before. Palmar nor chairman ray are on his scum team. time to look for his partners. There's a strong chance firmtofu is an ally of SnB but not sure yet. On October 03 2013 06:36 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: These were posted very shortly after the lynch. His is way way way later.SnB's flip points to FirmTofu being scum, ezpz. Palmar most certainly isn't in that scumteam cus SnB was going hard for him. I'll vote FT again for great justice. ##Vote: FirmTofu I'm going to make good on my statement that I'd shutup and let you look, but I would like to discuss post-look. | ||
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On October 08 2013 07:11 VisceraEyes wrote: Except that I think if you look at ALL available options, you'll see two folks most likely.Well I can certainly see scum motivation for it to be sure, but I fail to see why that makes him any more likely to be their partner. And furthermore, as Wave pointed out earlier, he literally said "I'm voting FT to save Palmar". Like....dude. Palmar was about to flip and show his colors. Why would CR say that if he knows Palmar's alignment and team? It doesn't make any sense, and Wave is right in suspecting you for pushing this as likely. WoS and CR. If WoS is scum and pushing me for this, ... it's because he's scum. If CR is scum and WoS is pushing me, who cares I'm right on this. Unless Pandain, CC, VA, or I are better fits for final MCB, then the final MCB is most likely either the guy I'm pushing or the guy saying I'm scummy for pushing CR. | ||
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On October 04 2013 12:35 Chairman Ray wrote: I agree that his explicit statement that he wants to save Palmar looks non-MCB.Hey I'm back now, and I did a quick read through the thread. Definitely impressed by all the reads and information people have been giving. You guys are definitely carrying me here .Anyways, my personal opinion, I think it's best to go after people that have a possibility to be on a scumteam with SnB. If we can get rid of one scumteam, then the KP goes down. Reading through the filters, I think the strongest disconnect with SnB is probably Palmer. For this reason, even though Palmer might be a good lynch candidate, I wouldn't vote him myself just because I want to get rid of SnB's scumteam first. After a quick analysis, I don't think that there's much of a chance that VA and FT are on the same scumteam, and Palmer and FT are on the same scumteam either. There's a weak disconnect between VA and palmer, but that can go either way. So using the four people - VA, SnB, FT, and Palm, I will try to see if I can map out their alliance. Scenario A Scumteam: SnB, VA FT and Palmer cannot occupy third spot, and they are also disconnected, so one must be other scumteam, one must be town Scenario B Scumteam: SnB, FT VA and Palmer cannot occupy third spot. They can both be other scumteam, or one of the is scum, one is town. Among the three people VA, FT, and Palmer, here's the information that we will get from lynching them: VA - If he flips scum with SnB, then either FT or Palmer must be town. If he flips opposite scum, then FT is likely scum, or else both FT and Palmer are town. If he flips town, then FT and Palmer can be scum on opposite teams, or one is scum, one is town. FT - If he flips scum with SnB, then out of VA and palmer, one or both is on the other scumteam. If he flips other scumteam, then, Palmer is town, and VA is can either be town or scum with SnB, more likely scum with SnB. If he flips town, then we don't know much about Palmer and VA. Palmer - I don't want to lynch him, but if he flips other scumteam, then it doesn't say much about VA and FT, and if he flips town, it doesn't say much either. There's also solstice, which some people are pushing to vote. I think the only disconnect that can even be drawn with him is with Palmer, but it's not a very strong one. I also doubt he's gonna be lynched today, so there isn't much of a point trying to piece him in. I will do that tomorrow. Right now, I think I'm gonna put my vote on FT since there isn't that big a benefit lynching VA over him, and plus, I wanna save Palmer. ##Vote: FirmTofu But in context of the post as a WHOLE, I think that townieness fades. The parts where he reads Palmar or talks about Palmar's alignment are in red. The post, in summation says: (1) Palmar might be a good lynch candidate, I wouldn't vote him myself just because I want to get rid of SnB's scumteam. Indicating that CR finds Palmar scummy. He MIGHT be a good lynch candidate (we lynch scum). And he shouldn't be lynched because we want to clear out SnB's team (i.e., Palmar would be on the other team, but still scum, not "Palmar is town so don't lynch"). (2) Palmar might flip scum, might flip town. (3) I wanna save Palmar. While he DOES say he wants to read Palmar, that post as a whole just sort of skirts giving any kind of actual READ on Palmar. Whereas WoS explicitly says can't read can't read can't read, CR manages to post about Palmar, Palmar's alignment, and why he's not lynching Palmar, without ever really taking a stance. It's clear that he doesn't want to lynch Palmar. It's clear he wants to save Palmar. But the way that post ADDRESSES Palmar, he's scum but on the other team, might be town, might be scum, let's save him, is scummy imo. And for the rest of the cycle, despite dropping a couple other posts, CR never addresses Palmar. Pre-switch, post-switch, while asking whether FT will get modkilled, CR stays entirely to the side of the issue of Palmar's alignment. | ||
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There IS the explicit statement that he wants to save Palmar. But he shares the characteristics that I saw in Wave of trying to push the lynch OFF Palmar while skirting Palmar's actual alignment. WoS steps in and says can't read or gives weak reads, but CR just skirts it entirely, except that the inferences drawn from his first paragraph indicate he thinks Palmar IS mafia. | ||
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On October 08 2013 09:23 VayneAuthority wrote: (3 scum left. It's 2 other than you funny that you bring up weird relationships....cough pandain/austin cough hard defending each other this entire game and both tunneling me. 2 scum left. interesting ) | ||
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Game as an odd feel to it right now, beyond the normal scum v scum v town dynamic, there's a weird confirmed folks vs unconfirmed ... hostility. If you're confirmed, try to understand that we're almost second class citizens in a way - all the scum are hiding in our ranks, more scum than town in fact, our opinions/reads are less trustworthy, and we're all getting accused by one person or another. If you're unconfirmed, we're in a pretty alright position, chill. It's frustrating, but oh well, it's only frustrating cuz we have a bunch of confirmed lategame townies, which is GOOD. Before we find world peace (lynch all the scum) we gotta peace and end the war in the streets (townie on townie violence). Tupac probably never lost a game as a townie. Listen to the man. | ||
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On October 08 2013 10:17 VisceraEyes wrote: There is. I don't think we read TOO much into it though, because it was getting towards the end of the cycle and it became clear at some point that solstice simply wasn't going stay alive. Nobody had swapped to Koshi in pretty much a full 24 hours, nobody bit on "lynch not a cop," the people who were going to be instrumental to moving any opinion had come down on Koshi's side.Nah I clocked out when you said that there was no useful discussion to be had on the topic I had brought up. One though, and don't know if anyone has brought this up, is that the remaining MCB would KNOW that whoever is scum between koshi and solstice was on the other scumteam. He doesn't need to raise a finger to save solstice, because he honestly needs the scumteam numbers evened up a little to have any kind of chance. Remaining MCB had no problems with either a cop lynch OR a DRB lynch, both improve his odds at having some kind of super duper slight chance that I still don't actually think exists. | ||
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On October 08 2013 10:17 Pandain wrote: It contains entirely too many F bombs and is too adversarial. I'll have to track down the sirens.Austin what do you make of the discussion? | ||
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Do you have specific suspicions for last MCB? I know you felt like that was a wild goose chase, but tonight we have solstice being sure scum and oats being sure town. The options have narrowed substantially, and there's another cycle of posts to look through. I specifically ask because I agree with VE that if you're scum, you're MCB and not DRB. Seeing MCB flip would clear you in my mind (the chance you're DRB is way too low to lynch at over others) | ||
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On October 08 2013 10:31 Pandain wrote: A lot of the reasons that WoS might be scum are his actions during the day of the Palmar lynch and his read on Palmar.Can someone explain why WoS can't be DRB? Those are WAY less relevant if he's not on Palmar's team. He looks scummy only via Palmar, and if he's not MCB he wouldn't KNOW that Palmar was scum. If he's not MCB, he COULD be scum, but it's way less likely than too many other folks. | ||
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On October 08 2013 10:35 Pandain wrote: Okay. Amend that statement to "the reasons why I think WoS could be scum," and, afaik, "the reasons why VE thinks WoS could be scum." The reasons why WoS is scum aren't just about Palmar, or you didn't read my write-up. If Vayne is scum, then the connection is equally strong with Vayne as it is with Palmar if not stronger. I can see him being on either team which is why he's a good lynch. Like, I don't mind that his CR read changed somewhat. It now matches mine, which I don't find scummy, and I would HOPE that people are slowly realizing CR has just not contributed for more than a WEEK of play. The no time/busy excuse doesn't hold up for that period of time, and his lack of motivation/care/whatever contrasts heavily with his play in his other two games. I don't mind that he says you/VA. I'm not sure if he's putting you together, or options (pick one from each set of /s), or what. There have been boatloads of lazy scumteams crafted by people in this game, he's not the first. His post about me being scummy, but not for "this" makes sense in whatever context he wrote it. Someone called me scummy for something, and WoS dropped that. I don't think there's much to go on with him being scum, apart from Palmar. We may disagree there. But even if there's SOME scummy stuff in his filter, we're now moving to D5. We're gonna have scummy stuff in filters. And whatever there may be that makes him look scummy, I don't think it looks scummier than CC/VA. | ||
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On October 08 2013 10:50 VisceraEyes wrote: I WILL CONTINUE TO MAKE EVERYONE FEEL THE LOVE.The play that gave scum extra KP (or two!) this nightphase. The RIGHT play. For scum! It's not like WoS was the only person guilty of this. And it's not like the people who didn't care at all about looking for MCB are all scum. | ||
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On October 08 2013 10:59 WaveofShadow wrote: I would assume, given that he has shown himself capable of posting his shot target last second, that he will post anything he does last second.Well again ultimately it's up to him what he does. But if Koshi does shoot me and dies, it's incredibly easy for the mislynch on me to continue because you'd have no way of knowing I'm confirmed town and anyone who wants me dead can WIFOM people into not knowing what Koshi really did. If you are not dead and he says he did a thing, it's POSSIBLE he was rbed, it's POSSIBLE that you, as scum, could give up KP to vest self or rb koshi, but the more likely event will be that what he says went down went down. | ||
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2 murderous gangs hanging around my town and you think I'm afraid of a SWORD!? | ||
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(1) which player would be the most robotic, perhaps with just a shred of bullmanity remaining? (2) which player has the most original bull, and has barely been robotified at all? (3) which player is the most dangerous bull, the one you know you have to keep in front of you or you'll be gored? (4) how do you subdue the robot bulls? feel free to answer later if you're headed home. but please do answer | ||
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On October 08 2013 14:13 raynpelikoneet wrote: If there is a mafia team who killed both the cop and the other mafia guy on one night, would they get +0,5 kp from both kills (resulting in 2 KP next night)? In case this is true and their KP would be 2 on the next night, could they have 4 KP in total for the next night by using the drive-by ability? From the OP "If a night-kill is successfully used on an enemy Gang member or a Policeman, the following night, the Gang is awarded an extra 0.5 KP to use. If Drive-By is used and two Gang/Police are killed, the Gang still receives only 0.5 extra KP the following night." | ||
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On October 08 2013 14:18 raynpelikoneet wrote: I don't think you're reading it right.Okay so it's possible that the other scumteam has 3 KP tonight if i understood correctly. Generally, at least based on how other give up one to get two things have worked, you can sac 1 kp, whole number, and ONLY one, for 2 the next night. It's not usually a pure x2 formula, and the OP specifically states you can pass up 1 KP to get 2 the next night. I doesn't say pass up whatever to get 2x whatever. The drive by side should have 2. The non drive by side should have 1. VA and CC should be the mafia. Pandain is an outside option if one of them isn't, but I believe he's town. WoS very very very unlikely mafia now. Koshi, I would ask that you shoot VA or myself tonight. I trust you to make a decent decision within or outside of that, but here is my reasoning. You, as far as I can tell, think VA is town. You've got some doubts, some little things that bug you, but appear to think he's town. Dunno where you currently are on me. But here's the thing, VA and I appear to be ... entirely opposed. I've been calling him mafia. He's been calling me mafia. For a while now. Both of us would like to show that the other guy is mafia and that we're town. Not only that, but finding the townie betwixt us is important. It colors some other things, possible what to do about Pandain. If you shoot into us tonight, you confirm someone or kill scum. And if you confirm someone, we can be nearly nearly nearly 100% that the other one is mafia. It should also be relatively apparent that we are NOT the two remaining scum. This isn't a ploy to have one of us shot and the other skate through. You may not trust me entirely, but this is entirely sensible, and ensures that you pretty much get TWO reads off of a single action tonight. You have found VA townie, but he is not. You have found me scummy at times, but if we had gone with my plan of lynching outside the cops and lynching CR, we would have eliminated MCB (bee tee dubs, scum need all the night KP they can get, finishing off an entire team would be BAD for scum, and scum would not want that to happen) Any bus works, any shot works, but I think that by shooting into the two of us you get two reads for the price of one. | ||
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We also will know what he did, because he'll tell us right before it happens. If scum want to bother roleblocking him or vesting someone, they're short 1 KP. And they don't know if the vest is wasted, because they don't know if VA will get shot. They'd run the chance that they vest him, I get shot, they have a member outed AND lost a KP. Bad fo scum. There's a teensy weensy itsy bitsy chance we're both town, but I just don't see things playing out like that. | ||
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On October 08 2013 14:33 WaveofShadow wrote: If I were scum austin my activity would have been 1/2 what it was yesterday, because I'd be busy yelling at solstice in QT for claiming cop (except cc likely scumbuddy so whatevs).While I agree somewhat with your 'if we had gone with my plan' thing, I don't think it says all that much because I don't really think there was any way you were going to get the entire town to support you over Solstice, and I believe a scum Austin would know this. I've said this before. I am unsure as to which of you or VA is scum, and a shot on one of you WOULD be good, but it presents the same problem as shooting me. If Koshi dies, it doesn't matter who he shoots, unless he hits scum because no one will be able to prove what he did. I'd say leave the night action up to Koshi. If there's one thing I can say about his play this game, at the very least he's been rockin' the cop. If I were scum, I wouldn't have been trying to get CR lynched for ... more than 72 hours? BEFORE the whole cop thing I was trying to get him lynched. You know who needed him alive, needs him not lynched? Scum. DRB needs MCB ALIVE, so they have another KP tonight. They would rather lose 1 member than lose the other team. Think about that. I was pushing CR before the claim, CR was tied for lead with a whopping 2 votes, but DRB needs to ensure MCB stays alive for another NK. You can say I couldn't push the lynch off solstice onto CR, but I have been pushing CR, and pushing CR as the last MCB for long before the cop claim arose. I also pushed oats as town. At every mislynch, I have undermined the mislynch of choice. If I'm scum, I've actively pushed against ALL mislynches, pushed to lynch the other team out of existence, eliminating HALF of the overall mafia KP, and when VA flips mafia, would have been fighting for a while now with...my own buddy? The VA thing you guys don't see yet, but you will (hopefully, please no throws) | ||
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On October 08 2013 14:45 WaveofShadow wrote: You are right about this stuff, but who do you have for your scumteam? Because if it's Pandain/VA then essentially you've got the same thing where Pandain has been pushing VA lynch like crazy the whole game, so I wouldn't necessarily put it past you, unfortunately. The only other person who fits imo is Pandain/CC, and I'll admit I could be wrong about CC, though the sac seems a little ridic. Stop fighting with pandain. You're missing stuff and it's night so fighting doesn't do anything all that useful. On October 08 2013 14:29 austinmcc wrote: I don't think you're reading it right. Generally, at least based on how other give up one to get two things have worked, you can sac 1 kp, whole number, and ONLY one, for 2 the next night. It's not usually a pure x2 formula, and the OP specifically states you can pass up 1 KP to get 2 the next night. I doesn't say pass up whatever to get 2x whatever. The drive by side should have 2. The non drive by side should have 1. VA and CC should be the mafia. Pandain is an outside option if one of them isn't, but I believe he's town. WoS very very very unlikely mafia now. I've had pandain now for a while, and once I moved you out of my scum list I had solstice/CR/VA/CC. 2 of those have shown themselves to be scum. The other two WILL show themselves. Why does solstice claim cop instead of 1 vs 1 cc in thread? (Cuz cc's his buddy) Why do they pull this stunt? (They need MCB KP at night, can't let CR get lynched) If you remove the payphone stunt from the equation, eliminate that entirely, how does CC look? Again, I will argue to my death that his "oats is mafia" post is 100% scum. Guaranteed. Full refunds available, anything you need. That post is a scum post and cc is a scum guy. | ||
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On October 08 2013 14:47 VayneAuthority wrote: In this post, we see the wild VA inform everyone that it's cool, the guy who claimed mafia is 100% trustworthy, and we shouldn't eliminate mafia KP.what KP are we lowering exactly? he said he's just going to vest every night. If koshi kills scum tonight I will be gunning for the last scum on the other team, not CR. | ||
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On October 08 2013 14:54 WaveofShadow wrote: "BECAUSE THOSE ARE THEIR ALIGNMENTS," HE YELLED IN A FRIENDLY MANNER.Yeah I'm not really sure what that's about. So wait why VA over Pandain? Has nobody been reading my filter? My posts? Are the people accusing me of being mafia just not even reading my posts? Pandain is town because of his activity spike D3 trying to save FT and get Palmar lynched. Since then, he has continued to be townie by posting lots of little cases and suspicions and pressuring people. Whether his suspicions/cases have been right or wrong, he's putting work into scumhunting. VA got tangled up when Koshi busted out his oats shot. There's probably other reasons back in my posts, but honestly they don't matter nearly as much. He dun goofed with the oats stuff. If VA has a long track record of being super demure scum, super lurker-y, and not afraid to fight back, I'm much much much more willing to listen to CC/Pandain. But unless that's VA scum play, he's mafia here. | ||
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On October 08 2013 14:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: rayn. I will save anything else for postgame or postflip, but here. Go and read my filter. What exactly has Austin pushed? I pushed Palmar. If you look D3, there are OODLES of posts between Pandain and I. We agree FT is not scum. He wants to lynch VA, I want to lynch Palmar. Look through D3 and watch me push Palmar over FT, and push him pretty hard. I'm trying to get votes off FT way before the modkill nonsense came up, because I was on Palmar that whoooooole day and trying to drum up support FOR palmar, as well as trying to push people OFF FT. Go read N3 and the start of D4. I'm on Chairman Ray. He or WoS is the last MCB, as I see the world, and I start the day off with a CR vote and pushing CR. The cop stuff came around and turned the day into that, but: (1) I was pushing CR scum and CR last MCB during the night; (2) I was pushing CR scum, CR last MCB during the early day; and (3) it seems pretty clear that I was actually pushing to lynch CR over a cop claimer. While (3) wasn't getting traction, I was pushing it, and town would be in a better spot tonight if we HAD lynched CR (again, guaranteed 100% no MCB KP). You know who I pushed D1? NOBODY CUZ I WASN'T IN THE GAME YET You know who I pushed D2? NOT REALLY ANYONE CUZ I WAS CATCHING UP, but I DID make clear posts showing why I thought ShiaoPi and FT were town. If you think I haven't pushed ShiaoPi town, FT town, Palmar scum, oats town, CR scum this game, you're flat wrong and you haven't been reading. It's POSSIBLE that one reason you don't think I've pushed stuff is that I wasn't here at all for D1, and wasn't here for about half of D2. I can't be responsible for not pushing reads during time I wasn't even in the game yet. However, at EVERY CYCLE since I've been caught up, I've both pushed correct lynches and pushed AGAINST mislynches. Seriously. Just read my filter. Read my posts within the game context. Either, both. | ||
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On October 08 2013 15:12 VayneAuthority wrote: You say that, but boy howdy have people been flipping how I thought they would. Kinda neat, huh?you think I am scum because of the oats thing? oh man. If you are town you have played a piss poor game, to be sure. | ||
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On October 08 2013 15:13 raynpelikoneet wrote: Look. I don't care if you can pull out 20 posts from your filter or from Grack's. I can pull off probably 20 quotes from my/Grack's filter that say exactly same things about Palmar than your case. Also, as i just said, after SnB's flip, if you are scum, Palmar was probably town for you. Then, on D4. If you are town the idea of lynching CR over Solstice was absolutely horrible. If you are mafia your team has probably concluded that he is the last scum and you have a possibility to save Solstice / look good by "defending" him and pushing another scum. win-win. Can you pull 20 posts from mine? Can you pull more than 20? What if you can? What if I have more than 20 posts on D3 pushing Palmar? Is that sufficient? How many posts do I need to make pushing Palmar until you go, "Hey, austinmcc actually did push Palmar!" Did you look? Did you read them? Did you read my posts for the day, or are you saying that something didn't happen without checking? If you're town, the idea of lynching CR over solstice was ABSOLUTELY 100% BETTER THAN LYNCHING SOLSTICE. If we lynch solstice, mafia is 2/1 and have what we assume is 3 KP tonight total. If we lynch CR over solstice, mafia teams are 3/0 and have 1-2 KP tonight total. Are you really, really arguing that mafia having 3 KP is better than mafia having 1-2 KP? Because with the solstice lynch, there are 3. With the CR lynch, there would be 1-2. And me personally, speaking as a townie here, think that situations in which mafia has LESS KP are GOOD SITUATIONS. | ||
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Like. You're town. Grack was town. IF I WAS PUSHING THINGS IN THE SAME WAY WHAT IS THE LIKELY CONCLUSION ABOUT MY ALIGNMEEEEEEEEEEEEEENT | ||
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He was scummy on Pandain D2 and then busted out: On October 03 2013 07:29 VayneAuthority wrote: I can't say why my read has changed on you unfortunately. have to wait. On October 04 2013 08:25 VayneAuthority wrote: actually it makes him scummier austin, but I still can't say anything. ffs... He had a couple more posts like that, iirc. Dropping little "I'm sure on x or y, but can't explain" or reads changing or posts about how he was holding back certain reads. They read as cop soft-claims to me, or changes in reads based on night actions. | ||
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On October 08 2013 15:25 raynpelikoneet wrote: Cuz he continued to do nothing, and he started off D3 by arguing about the ShiaoPi/FT vote swap bit.You had Palmar as town before SnB flipped. After that you started pushing him. Why only then? Like, his play was shit the whole D1 and D2. As shitty as N2 and D3. Why magically after SnB's flip you started pushing him? As i see this little thing called "he is probably town so i don't get killed by another scumteam next night and can safely push him" If you read why I'm scummy on him, the amount of effort he puts into posting about something that matters as little as why he swapped his vote at the end of D2 really highlights the amount of effort he's NOT putting into scumhunting. That's what made Palmar scummy for me --> willing to focus on stuff that doesn't matter, not willing to focus on stuff that does. I can't factor that into a read until he actually makes those posts. | ||
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On October 08 2013 15:31 raynpelikoneet wrote: As far as I know, yup. So do you remember it correctly or not? | ||
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On October 08 2013 15:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: Some of us weren't here for D1. And weren't really here for a good chunk of D2.But the fact is Palmar put zero effort into scumhunting on D1 and D2. D1 no effort Palmar should be enough to lynch. Immediately. So (1) we read it all quickly and (2) we saw none of it in context. | ||
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I care that he was useless WHILE finding the time to post voluminously on stuff that didn't matter. It's not the uselessness alone, it's the fact that he's willing to post and think about the game, but only as far as non-scumhunting is concerned. | ||
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But it seems like you're actually reading my filter, which I appreciate/you should do if you're gonna call someone mafia. At the very least, it looks like you've gone from "I never saw him push anyone" to "Easy push, rayn and grack were making the same posts" to "Why didn't you push him earlier?" | ||
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On October 08 2013 15:41 raynpelikoneet wrote: I mostly agree with the first bit. But again I was not here. Sorry for not catching scum before I started playing.What i care about is this: Scum don't want to call out other scum at the start of the game, even if they figure them out. Because the other team might kill you and you then effectively shit on each others bed. My problem is this: When SnB was killed the other scumteam HAS to assume Palmar is town, because the bus was so incredible. Then, magically then, you come up with this Palmar stuff, while on N2 you have him as fucking town. On D4, when there is a Solstice life on the line, you magically come up with Chairman Ray who is ABSOLUTELY MAFIA! Out of fucking nowhere. OUT OF FUCKING NOWHERE! That, sir, is a big problem in your play to me. Also, I don't magically come up with CR. Jesus. Here's my scumreads D2 On October 02 2013 03:29 austinmcc wrote: Don't want to lynch FT or ShiaoPi. Happy with Koshi, Solstice, probably CR, possibly Pandain. ##vote: s0Lstice Hiro, could you share some thoughts on people who aren't FT and ShiaoPi? Maybe take a look at rayn/palmar arguing, a peek at CR, and whatchoo thinkin' bout solstice? On D3, I look harder at CR: Here's my looking into other CR games: On October 05 2013 03:03 austinmcc wrote: CR or someone else, can you point me to your other mafia games? On October 05 2013 03:03 austinmcc wrote: where your = CR's as far as the "someone else" is concerned. Profile full of a bunch of, gasp, non-mafia posts On October 05 2013 03:08 austinmcc wrote: Yeah. I just want to look over those other games. When I start making lists, he's in this middle grouping and I need to pull some of those folks one way or another. after Koshi first outs himself: On October 05 2013 04:29 austinmcc wrote: (Which is why we should lynch him. High five!) Palmar/WoS/solstice/CR/(VA or Cheese) is where I currently sit. LOOK AT MY MUSCULAR, CHISELED BACK TOWN. LOOK AT IT. DO YOU NOT WANT TO HOP ON? Perhaps tomorrow, or perhaps later Koshi revelations will clear something neat up. Here's my looking into other CR games: On October 05 2013 03:03 austinmcc wrote: CR or someone else, can you point me to your other mafia games? On October 05 2013 03:03 austinmcc wrote: where your = CR's as far as the "someone else" is concerned. Profile full of a bunch of, gasp, non-mafia posts On October 05 2013 03:08 austinmcc wrote: Yeah. I just want to look over those other games. When I start making lists, he's in this middle grouping and I need to pull some of those folks one way or another. Someone asks me about my reads: On October 05 2013 04:40 austinmcc wrote: LOOK. I EXPLAIN WHY I THINK CR IS MAFIA HERE, ON D3, BEFORE PALMAR HAS EVEN FLIPPED. I explain by referencing past games.A lot hinges on FT and Palmar. I agree that Oats ain't strongly town, but some of what he's said just struck me as very town-minded. Not even town-minded in a "scumhunting the other team" way, but just about the game in general. CR's old town games are like...plans to do stuff, votes put on people he doesn't think are scum so that MAYBE scum will hop off the leading candidate and onto that other guy (indicating that the main candidate IS scum), etc. etc. Tricksy, calculating, and lynched for it because it sounds a little too wonky. This game, he's doing a little calculating and theory, but it almost always concerns scum actions/scum teams. In some ways, my read on him is like...reverse blue sniping. It looks like he wants to play his normal game, but he's caught up in scum actions, and so all his theories and speculation posts focus on scum actions. Not a boatload to go on, but it's there. His entry posts are also a bit crafted for my taste. He never never drops in. It's always a sizeable post focused on one or two areas, not like he hops in and gets dirty but like he knows he's not around and crafts these single posts to drop into thread. There might have been something else but I forget. WoS/solstice we'll see about. Then continue looking at my posts. I'm focused on that one post of CR's during N3 On October 06 2013 01:53 austinmcc wrote: Oats. I still kind of sort of think you're town. Please do some super townie stuff or something if you're town. I don't think we conclude anything off of that. IF WoS isn't the third member of that team, CR is a decent option, but honestly I read more into what CR wrote about Palmar than what Palmar wrote about CR. Go look at CR's post D2 where he goes through the permutations of VA/Palmar/SnB/FT scumteams. He concludes overall that Palmar is scummy but the worst lynch for information-gathering reasons. THAT is something I like much more as a connection than what Palmar says about CR. (This post is when I had WoS as most likely MCB, CR second likely) Here's solstice defending CR N3, and me explaining to solstice why CR is mafia: On October 06 2013 02:29 austinmcc wrote: Look at his past games. Look at his posts this one. There are less, they're generally very well-constructed and almost never spur of the moment little comments. He rarely sticks around. A lot of his scumhunting is bolstered by ... events, by votes, by flips, by something other than just filters. It's not just that he's not doing these weird votes to try and make something happen and out mafia, he's OVERLY cautious, very apologetic, and never just straight sitting down and scumhunting. To the extent you like disappearing after lynch, as some other people have mentioned in this thread, as a scumtell, CR not only hasn't been around but this is, as best I can tell, the first time he's seen a scum lynch on TL. In both other games he was a D1 mislynch. In this game, SnB flips scum and CR's response is:Palmar flips scum and CR's response is:There is no joy in mudville. Combine that with the fact that there's a limited pool of possible mafia players, and he's mafia. I'm not going to grab any more posts. They're all in my filter. You can look at them. I don't grab CR from nowhere. I've been explaining why CR is mafia from later in D3, and arguing harder for him during N3 and at the start of D4. I don't magically come up with CR. I scumhunt. And I found scum. And very, very few people were interested in listening at all, despite me asking a bunch of people about CR, and trying to get them to see the light. | ||
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Long before cheesecake ever mentions his PMs. Long before solstice claims. In no way, shape, or form does this read spring out of my head the moment solstice is about to die. | ||
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CC very unlikely to be banger. CR much more likely telling the truth, based on his actions, than pulling some .. even more than next level play. It's not just mafia v town on D3. It's DRB with 3 players vs. MCB with 2 players vs. town. If the remaining MCB allows Palmar to die, he doesn't just lose a scumbuddy. His team now only has ONE member left, and it's not just mafia KP vs. town lynch. It's their kp vs town lynch + DRB KP + cop actions coming in. They CANNOT go down to one member, because the deck will be so stacked against them. CR fits that bill. CC doesn't. You DO have paranoid thoughts in my head now, lol. I don't have a problem with DRB solstice and DRB CC. Yesterday, the moment oats was off the table, mafia didn't have their main mislynch option. They know another cop action is coming tonight. They've got 3 players, and know that IF the last MCB doesn't die there are 3 KP tonight. I could understand them being okay with saccing a single player to ensure the 3 KP AND to try and put CC in a better light. Remember, BEFORE the solstice thing, CC hadn't done too much. He wasn't on anyone's definitely town list. And I was really, really arguing that he was mafia based on the interaction with oats yesterday. He was gonna be under some pressure and some scrutiny that day, even if I couldn't get anyone to see what I was seeing, I wasn't going to shut up. If they didn't think he could really hold up, maybe it's a ploy to try and get him looking better, they think he has a decent chance of going late and solstice doesn't or something. | ||
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Scum don't have a lot of space to hide, everything sexy, just let us know whatcha do. | ||
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On October 09 2013 00:16 raynpelikoneet wrote: rayn.The plan was bad. The plan would have ensured both of Koshi & Solstice alive on D5. As Koshi would have been roleblocked / Solstice vested. Suddenly we have 1 confirmed town (VE) instead of 4 (me/VE/Koshi/Oats). Nobody can be trusted. Austin said we "remove KP by making Sol/Koshi vest or something". Right. We remove KP now too, unless mafia wants Koshi to confirm more townies / shoot scum. Same outcome, except that we have 4 conf-townies instead of 1. Bad plan, bad. Koshi being RBed or solstice vested means scum spent KP on items. Not on killing townies. That's GOOD for town. We don't remove KP this way. If we'd lynched CR, mafia would have 1-2 KP MAX tonight. As it is, they have 3 KP. That's BAD for town. You are so focused on the cops, so focused on "confirmed" townies, that it's warped your sense of the game. Cops and confirmed townies are LESS important than having LESS DEAD TOWNIES. Games get won without cops and confirmed townies. Games DON'T get won with all the townies dead. I would rather have unconfirmed people ALIVE than CONFIRMED TOWN DEAD. Do you disagree that dead townies are bad? | ||
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If they don't use an item, it saves 1-2 KP AND solstice/koshi resolves overnight. | ||
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On October 09 2013 00:28 raynpelikoneet wrote: 1 team used drive by last night. 1 team did not. Tonight, there are 3 KP.Explain to me, how the fuck would there be 2-3 KP less? ChairmanRay can now shoot. That's 1 KP less. Who is to say he is not dumb will not shoot into your team? How do Ballers have now more KP than they would have if Solstice was alive? Explain this. If we lynch a cop claimer, he's DRB. That means both teams are still alive and kicking. That means tonight there are 3 KP. If we lynch CR, the MCB team is gone. If they had 1 KP, that means there are 2 KP in play. If they had 2 KP, that means there is 1 KP in play. By getting rid of a team, scum are down a total of 1-2 KP, just because a team is gone. So there's a base, -1 or -2 KP for finishing off a team. Then you have koshi and solstice alive. If mafia don't just want Koshi shooting solstice and solving the whole thing, they have to spend KP on a rb or a vest. That's another KP down. Now, they don't HAVE to do that. But here are the two scenarios: (1) MCB is gone, -1 or -2 KP. DRB choose to use a power to save solstice, -1 KP. That's -2 or -3 KP. (2) MCB is gone, -1 or -2 KP. DRB choose NOT to use a power to save solstice, shoot koshi. In this case, mafia is STILL down -1 or -2 KP, and we don't have have another day of counterclaims. You worry, that people won't be confirmed and that we'll go into the next day not 100000% sure of who the cop is, can ONLY happen in a world where mafia loses -2 or -3 KP from losing a team AND protecting solstice. If mafia doesn't give up KP to protect solstice, then he dies or he AND koshi die, and we KNOW the next day who was who. Even in that case, they're short -1 or -2 KP depending on which team drove by on N3. So either -2 or -3 KP and we still have solstice/koshi the next day, or -1 or -2 KP and we don't. In either case, less dead townies is good for town. Fundamentally, do you disagree with just this statement, "Less dead townies is good for town"? On October 09 2013 00:50 Koshi wrote: You need to read my filter.+ Show Spoiler +This isn't true. Austin was clearly not trying to lynch CR specifically last lynch. Who was he trying to lynch? Somebody remembers? Because that guy is probably not in his team. On October 06 2013 05:00 austinmcc wrote: CR Oh yeah lynch this dude tomorrow. He's not been newbie. He's been near useless, despite getting lynched for contributions in other game that people found scummy. His posts all avoid direct scumhunting. He never casually posts. Lynch this dude. Lynch him. I RAN OUT OF TIME BOLLOCKS. If Oats town, cheese scum. That one post does it. SOME OTHER PEOPLE ARE ALSO SCUM THIS POST SUCKS SO MUCH AS A LAST MINUTE POST WTF On October 06 2013 05:14 austinmcc wrote: ##vote: Chairman Ray Post serious. I think Cheese is on the NOT palmar team, 10000000% I think CR or WoS is on the palmar team. I think we have a lot of stuff to mine from the last couple days, people who suddenly jump on the oats train. On October 06 2013 08:38 austinmcc wrote: Thing is, after this whole bit today I honestly believe VA is super mafia. Which means CR in the last banger slot, not WoS, and probably WoS town/solstice mafia. On October 07 2013 04:33 austinmcc wrote: In my head, the super duper right play is to have everyone try and create full scum teams. Just off the top of their head, who they think are the 4 scum, don't have to align. We leave that on the back burner. I like when Chezinu tries to get everyone to make lists, and I think it's something to have people DO but not rely on heavily. Then we don't lynch either cop claimer. We have Koshi precision shot solstice (he claims his is up). We have solstice...he said he used his precision shot and that the prius was Hiro's, so I guess we just have him do something defensive. Try to save someone. This forces either scumKoshiteam to deal with an extra protect OR scumsolsticeteam to RB koshi/buy vest for solstice or lose solstice. One way we 100% kill solstice or save a KP from town (they have to spend KP on the RB item). The other way we have a CHANCE of saving a townie. In my head, that's the RIGHT play, we'll be right back in this situation tomorrow (unless solstice scum and doesn't rb or buy vest), but we'll have a night that's slightly more town-favored than it otherwise would be. The real issue with that is: (1) It requires people to ignore the competing claims (2) A LOT of folks are implicated in the claims --> rayn, oats, cc, somewhat you So we avoid all of those and we find scum in the remainder. Heck, perhaps we're the super coolest bestest town ever and magically take out the last MCB if it's not someone locked up in these claims. That's my legitimate thought process. I think the absolute RIGHT play is to lynch CR. + Show Spoiler + In my mind, he's not associated with EITHER set of claims, so lynching him isn't explicitly siding with one cop claimer. He hasn't been around. He doesn't seem to care about this cop claim stuff, DESPITE BEING SUPER PLOTTY AND TRICKSY IN HIS OTHER GAMES. THIS GAME GOT CRAZY WEIRD AND INTERESTING AND CONVOLUTED AND HE, AGAIN, JUST DROPS ONE POST AND DIPS. I can believe he's got RL commitments. But we're over a WEEK of time where he NEVER posts casually, and NEVER is just around. And he's not interested where his past games indicate, to me, that he should be interested. Agree? Disagree? Think that (1) interferes with that? VE, how about you? On October 07 2013 04:39 austinmcc wrote: Like...read this post: And then look at the Koshi/Cheesecake/solstice situation. THIS IS EXACTLY THE KIND OF STUFF HE WAS TRYING TO PULL AS TOWN. I'M GOING TO DO X TO TRICK SCUM AND GET THEM TO REVEAL THEMSELVES. I know he's been told not to do it. I know he got lynched for it. But based on him DOING THIS PREVIOUSLY, RECENTLY, we know he LIKES this kind of stuff. I know I shouldn't be so paranoid, but it hits and I LIKE IT and I spam paranoid crap and I love it. Yum yum addictive. And then when ALL OF THIS COMES OUT TODAY, what does CR post?He's not thinking about stuff. He's not INTERESTED in stuff. He goes "HAI HAS ANYONE CONSIDERED THIS OTHER SCENARIO?" And what does he do with that question? NOTHING. He doesn't seem to consider it. He doesn't post implications. He doesn't discuss with any other people the issues that we are all discussing, that he asked a question about and is supposedly interested in. CR is HOLY BALLS SO SCUMMY SO SCUMMY SO SCUMMY. On October 07 2013 04:47 austinmcc wrote: VE. I agree that we want to hit the remaining MCB. WoS doesn't look as good for that slot as I previously thought, and he's tied up in the cop stuff because one claimed cop says WoS is confirmed. Would you look at CR, look at SnB and Palmar's filters, and tell me whether you think: (1) CR is mafia (2) CR is > 50/50 mafia (3) CR is a decent fit for MCB Specifically, CR posting before the D3 lynch, that Palmar is scum but wants to save him. Or that Palmar is scum but doesn't give as much information as other scum so we should lynch others. That post. On October 08 2013 02:19 austinmcc wrote: I'd rather lynch CR. Last banger is CR/Pandain/WoS. Most likely CR I believe. If you're going to get super bent out of shape about me voting you, it totally happened. I'm paranoid enough and found enough stuff to indicate that you might be the one lying that I was happy to vote you. But my vote is on you for 21 minutes. I ask for a CR lynch N3. I ask for a CR lynch start of D4. I ask for a CR lynch while we're lynching solstice. Actually look at my posts, then try to say that I wasn't trying to lynch CR specifically. On October 09 2013 00:56 VisceraEyes wrote: Nope. Your hat must be malfunctioning. I absolutely wanted to lynch outside the cops. However, there was a good period of time where I was not 100% sure which cop claim was correct. I was much much much more sure of CR than either cop.You're misinterpreting his intentions. I don't think he couldn't tell which was the fake-claim. I don't think that's the case at all. I think he would have just rather lynched the last Banger. That was my intention. I could tell between the real and the fake claims, but I wanted to lynch the last Banger instead. On October 09 2013 01:10 raynpelikoneet wrote: But you're not.I am tunneled because i know i am fucking right! I actually reread the thread for D4 because that was the most important phase in this game! On October 09 2013 01:12 VisceraEyes wrote: Yeah yeah, sometimes I'm not at the computer. I defended myself plenty last night; I'll defend myself some more today. He's also not in here vehemently defending his towniness and is instead letting me do it for him. I may lynch austin with you rayn. But we've gotta lynch CR first. | ||
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You guys are super overvaluing cop. Essentially, this game is wrapped up with a single check, or at most two, even if nobody ever scumhunts a single iota again. Shoot me, bus me with someone, do whatever you want, shoot someone else, etc. But you're going cop-crazy, and assuming that keeping Koshi alive and checking is the single bestest ever thing for town. However, confirmed townies, as nice as they are to have, don't guarantee correct reads. Just look at your reads on CR N3/early D4. I'm telling you he's mafia and people are saying nope, town. More confirmed townies is great, but who cares if your reads are wrong. Using the cop action to clear up alignments/reads is more beneficial to town than using cop actions solely to keep a cop around. Game is over in like...a cycle or two basically, because pieces start falling into place. What you guys need is better reads, and you can get those by shooting/bussing in a way that hopefully clears up some of the folks we're fighting over --> Pandain, me, VA. Everyone is overvaluing their individual reads too. We've all been wrong about someone at some point this game. It's POSSIBLE I'm wrong on pandain and it's pandain scum VA town but I don't think that's the case. For rayn and VA, I'm entirely town. You'll see if I flip, or postgame, or whenever you read this game and past games of mine. If you have never ever ever ever been wrong before in a read, feel free to continue arguing that I'm 100% mafia. However, if you're going to do that, you'd best feel sadface if I ever flip. Rayn, to some extent, you're having trouble that I was 100% scummy on CR, knew he was mafia, more than I knew koshi/solstice solution. But what you're telling me is that you have 100% reads, and that you were 100% on koshi cop solstice scum. You're attacking me for being basically CERTAIN of CR's alignment, by saying you can't be sure. But you're also attacking me because I SHOULD HAVE BEEN SURE of Koshi/solstice and wasn't. In essence, it's SCUMMY if I was unsure on a read (koshi/solstice) and SCUMMY/impossible if I was sure on a read (CR). If nothing else, look. If CR is the last MCB, then my sureness came whether I'm mafia or town or whatever. Regardless of my alignment, I was sure on a dude, and the dude flipped scum. You can attack me for being sure on someone you weren't, but: (1) they WILL flip scum and (2) my being SURE that someone is scum can't make me mafia, because I couldn't be on CR's team. You keep throwing these arguments out that don't make sense, and you won't listen to reason. | ||
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I don't care if you think I should have been sure on the cop. I wasn't. I'm very very very paranoid. solstice HAD some things to back up his claim. Koshi HAS some weird spots in his play. That's exactly the sort of thing that I'm going to fall down the rabbit hole with, and I did. But at all times, while not being sure on which cop was cop, I wanted to do something that: (1) would have finished off a mafia team; and (2) lowered KP tonight. Again, my townread on Pandain stems mostly mostly mostly from his D2. Really trying to push people off FT to no effect. And even when he HAS no effect, he's continuing to try and force it to happen. He's expending energy, posts, time, effort, into something that anyone outside the situation can see is having no impact on the thread. Scum almost never devote time/posts/energy into doing something that does nothing. If they want to do nothing, they do nothing. They don't post a crapton just to have no effect. CC is mafia. WoS isn't, I'm not, that leaves CC. Thing set up to get one of them into a decent position and avoid losing the other scum team yesterday. VE is pretty much right now the only person trying to get everyone to work together and stop tunneling. Koshi actually is to some degree, because it's clear he at least sees that SOME of what I'm getting called out for isn't actually as anti-town as rayn/VA want it to be. He's also reading filters, knows that I was poking at solstice earlier. Filters is gud. | ||
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On October 09 2013 04:16 VayneAuthority wrote: Because I'm town and I know townies make mistakes. Everyone here who is town has made them, and been wrong about reads this game.why do you preach about being wrong on reads and then say im your top scumread? die already so I can stop reading this shitty trash So unless you're going to tell me that all townies are always correct in all reads, then it has to be possible that I've misread you. Enough people have suspicion on pandain that he's not the most shining townie ever. Maybe he ain't town at all. I find it very very unlikely, but it's there. | ||
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On October 09 2013 04:21 VayneAuthority wrote: That wasn't you reading the OP wrong.ok then you misread me end of story. You don't even have a read on me, just trying to hang onto that oats thing which was me reading the OP wrong. if that's the best you got as a town member then I really hope we never have to play town together again after this and nuclear. you are always fucking play for scum! You said oats was probably bulletproofed last night as scum. That's not an OP thing, that's a wrong view of gamestate. You said you were the mislynch of choice yesterday. That's not an OP thing, that's a wrong view of the gamestate both N3 AND D4, because you were third in votes. You said oats was a bad shot. Nothing to do with the OP. Your misreading of the bullet refund WAS the OP. But your reaction to Oats being confirmed has nothing to do with the OP. | ||
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On October 09 2013 04:22 raynpelikoneet wrote: Wanting to devote time to something that does nothing is fine, but I view that as falling into things like Ace or palmar arguing with you.In fact, scum WANT to devote time on something that does nothing in case their lives are not in line. Pandain trying to shift the lynch involves a lot of something, a lot of FT defending and a lot of VA attacking, but for no...no payoff. It's too much work to get nothing out of, and he continues long after it's dead. If I'm wrong on Pandain, okeedoke. But a heck of a lot of people were wrong on CR, and never bothered to go read his games. | ||
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On October 09 2013 04:24 VayneAuthority wrote: Nope. Not at all. You're ANGRY that koshi would confirm oats. Which is a good thing for town. You're upset and trying to wiggle out of something that was positive for town, with reasoning that doesn't cut it.so your whole case rests on the fact that I am "misreading" the game state when i am much more likely to do that as town then scum. Case closed you're garbage thanks for proving me town. | ||
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On October 09 2013 04:26 VayneAuthority wrote: There's a townie way to hate being wrong. There's a scummy way to hate being wrong.and I already explained that, I hate being wrong because I was 100% sure oats was scum due to how he was playing, but you are trying to play it off as some big thing. and that is why you are scum. Your first reaction was the scummy one. Koshi you took a bad shot, oats was a great bulletproof target, etc. etc. Only after a while do you have the townie reaction "I can't believe oats is doing this as town." | ||
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On October 09 2013 04:27 raynpelikoneet wrote: And what happens when Pandain pushes things but nobody will listen, yet he keeps pushing and pushing?Read Noire and GS and you will see how wrong you are in Pandain's meta. When Pandain is town and wants something to happen he makes it happen, like in GS. I am probably the best person to say this because our playstyle is quite similar. He does what i did no longer than ~5 games ago. If i concluded someone is scum i pushed the lynch through. That's it, i didn't give a fuck who the other players in the game were or what they did think. That's what Pandain does as town. Look at Noire, Pandain "pushes things", how many things go through. Absolutely zero. His alignment is determined on...the outcome? Whether his lynch gets pushed through? If that's the case, you're basing his alignment off other people's decisions, their lynch choices. | ||
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On October 09 2013 04:31 VayneAuthority wrote: like I don't see any reason except for austin/pandain scum team for him to defend his play like this in a completely wrong way. it is completely inexcusably bad if you are town. | ||
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On October 09 2013 04:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: Mainly cuz CR has two games where he's been lynched D1, whereas Pandain has games and one of them keeps getting listed as terrible and awful to read.Austin you are very eager to look into other people's past games. Why do you refuse to look into Pandain's last games and refuse to see the obvious? Also, at this point, if I don't look at em, you go "Austin scum!" If I look at em and come to a different conclusion than you, you go, "Austin scum!" If I look at them and come to the SAME conclusion as you, you go..."Austin scum!" I'll check em out for a Pandain read, but...my response to that question, and my read on Pandain, isn't actually going to do anything to your read on me. | ||
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On October 09 2013 04:35 VayneAuthority wrote: looks like a scumclaim to me, vivax posted GIFs when I trapped his shitty logic in roulette too. gG confession Oh man! GIFs are scumclaims. We must BOTH be scum then. | ||
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On October 09 2013 04:37 VayneAuthority wrote: Can you name a single game where this is true about me?difference being that I consistently post GIFs, you and vivax only post them why you're roasted | ||
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On October 09 2013 04:40 VayneAuthority wrote: It's not like I've got a bunch of games. On this site. That you can find and read.you ask me to provide a sample from a list of 1 completed game, where you are town and 1 ongoing game where you are scum. you are pretty much a downie Surely, some of those games have this magical gif tell. Surely, these games show me not being paranoid about claims. Because, boy howdy, finding me not being paranoid and my magical gif tell would really, really help you out here. | ||
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On October 09 2013 04:53 VisceraEyes wrote: Technically a poison wouldn't infect you. But yeah, I agree.Emotion has nothing to do with it. You're poison, and I'm done being infected by you. Any last second pandain thoughts? | ||
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So, CR and probably CC over VA honestly, as butt as that feels in my heart. | ||
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On October 09 2013 05:04 VisceraEyes wrote: His post says he had no bus and he shot pandain.Seems obvious Koshi bussed me with Pandain...but whatever. Flavor odd, but...why lie when you post on the deadline. | ||
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On October 09 2013 05:20 raynpelikoneet wrote: The problem with this statement is that they did, indeed, out two members.I don't see scumteam of Vayne/CR/Solstice out 2/3 of their members in 2 phases. Both were under pressure, but DID out themselves, and WERE on the same team. Has no bearing on the third member really, though. | ||
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Does a team of CR/austinmcc/ANYONE make sense to you? | ||
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You don't like those lineups. But you do love the team with CR and I both on it? | ||
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On October 09 2013 05:27 WaveofShadow wrote: YES THAT SHOULD BE ME/CRWhat does the third player in that team have anything to do with who decided it was a good idea out 2 scum members in 2 days? Do you envision the third player in that team being the leader? Wait austin why did you include yourself in that scumteam list? lol Shouldn't that be solstice? I AM GOOD WITH NAMES THIS GAME | ||
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You messed with the quote. WoS, I have no idea why the third person has anything to do with 2 others outing themselves. But rayn is implying that it does. I'm responding to that. | ||
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On October 09 2013 05:30 WaveofShadow wrote: It's not out of the question, no. But it's SOMETHING to think about, and I can point to a boatload of posts here.So I don't understand. Are we somehow supposed to believe you wouldn't bus CR, the inactive superlurk? I knwo you made all these arguments about your push and how long you were doing it and whatnot, but it's not out of the question imo. In my mind, at least when confronted with "I don't see CC/CR/solstice" without any explanation why, with rayn ending up implying I'm the remaining mafia, then rayn should be giving some explanation why I fit better than CC or VA or a host or anything. | ||
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On October 09 2013 05:33 VayneAuthority wrote: No, I don't. Because it's ridiculous. Here's why:and austin do you agree with this or not? very important really. Binding contract. My argument is that me pounding away on CR means I'm not associated with him. You're saying that because CR attacked you, you're not associated with him. I would argue that I've been CLEARLY on scum CR for a while, and trying to get others around to that. CR, whoever and whatever he suspected, has not been pushing anything, has not actually been pushing to get you lynched. So the two are different. Also, IF you're town, here's your thought process: (1) austinmcc attacked CR (2) CR attacked me (3) I'm town (4) austinmcc says he probably not scum with CR because he attacked him (5) therefore, austinmcc should believe that I'm not scum with CR (6) if he does not, he's mafia But....if that's your actual thought process, then you should ALSO have this one: (1) austinmcc attacked CR (2) CR attacked me (3) I'm town (4) I'm not associated with CR, in part, because he attacked me (5) therefore, I should believe that austinmcc isn't scum with CR Like...you either believe in association or you don't. If you BELIEVE that you should NOT be associated with CR, then you also believe I shouldn't be. So whether or not I think you should be associated with CR, you wouldn't be making threats like this. Essentially, you're trying to say you'd lynch me for being inconsistent, when doing so would also be inconsistent on your part. | ||
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On October 09 2013 05:39 VayneAuthority wrote: Yup. I mentioned them. As scumreads or suspicions. Look how they flipped.In the end it just all points back to austin. nobody mentioned s0lstice and CR more then austin this entire game, not even close... if he flips town then I need to do a long re-read of the game but until then its austin CR's D2 post makes you less likely to be with him. Doesn't make it impossible. Just pandain flipping scum adds a chance for you to be town. But if you think it 100% clears you, then you'd be arguing that as we cleared. So right now, we're both in the same spot...doesn't 100% clear the other person, but adds some questions and reduces likelihood. | ||
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On October 09 2013 05:40 raynpelikoneet wrote: I initially thought this was true, but...is it?Suddenly Austin's D4 "let's not lynch into the cops and kill this last MCB who is btw 100% CR" looks even much more terribad than it did before.. If I'm supposed to be their third teammate, is there a difference to me between killing solstice or CR? Like, you're arguing I'm mafia because I suggested we kill one DRB over another. Is there a reason for me to do that as DRB? In either case, town lynches mafia, and town lynches my teammate. And if they lynch CR, my teammate, and solstice has claimed cop, he's outed and 100% dead. So what you're arguing is that I'd try to get town to lynch my other scumbuddy, when solstice was going to die due to claim, and that.....this would be a good thing for scumaustin? | ||
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I honestly expected to see shots at 2-3 of Koshi/VE/WoS. That leaves scum and people trying to push a mislynch on me, whether you're town or scum. The fact that those WEREN'T the kills means that I'm not being set up as much as I think, and increases the chances of CC over you, because the kill went on OATS. Oats getting killed ensures maximum pissing match between you/people who think you're town and me/people who think i'm town/might be town. | ||
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On October 09 2013 06:03 VisceraEyes wrote: Yaya. It doesn't say today.Logic is flawed - no one is being setup for lynch today because CR is the lynch today regardless what happens. But scum could have eliminated a side of the debate, or tried to, and then we'd lynch CR without anyone really giving reads on him, so the topic of discussion would be either how much VA or I was scum, without much in the way of rebuttal. Instead, both sides up and oats gone. Indicates that scum is fine with another day of argument, rather than just piling on one side, and that they don't care who would eventually get lynched betwixt the two of us. | ||
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On October 06 2013 00:58 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Final thought; S0lstice talking about mafia teams getting in contact with each other. Suspect as fuck. | ||
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On October 10 2013 02:50 raynpelikoneet wrote: If you're super mega concerned about these things, I'll focus on looking through them, but I'm reluctant to focus on why CR might have claimed/unclaimed/reclaimed scum and such over filters and who pushed who when. Especially earlier before all this began.Anyone except VisceraEyes, this is what i want you to do on N5, or at last on D6; Wo is the last scum and why, considering these things: (1) Solstice payphoning CC. How does the scum actions on D4 make sense regarding that happening? (2) N4, and CR claiming scum, and the scum actions regarding that. (3) D5, CR retracting from the scumclaim when seeing Pandain flip and then claiming scum again. The scum guys actions regarding that. (4) It is clear that D4 onwards scum were bussing and bussing hard. Who is the last scum and why do their actions from D4 onwards make most sense from scum!pov? VE: One of us is gonna die the next night. You, or if scum have 2 KP they might double stack me. Look closely into those answers, consider what i have said, and if it does make sense when you cross-reference that into other people's answers. If someone does not answer this post, lynch. Whatever has been going on recently with solstice/CR claims, it's either (1) super orchestrated or (2) nonsensical (imo). I'd rather look at things before the point they went nuts. | ||
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Basically, he has a couple actual reads which we can't entirely trust, but also more situationally-oriented posts like this: On October 07 2013 02:50 s0Lstice wrote: He's scum. He's three man scum. He KNOWS he'll flip eventually and be outed. But is he trying to make sense with this post, be honest, and maybe get Koshi lynched? Or is the mindfuckery already beginning.There wouldn't be much motivation for me to do it as the last banger. There is no scenario where it isn't suicide basically that I can see off-hand. That would mean if I am scum, it's gotta be the 3-man team. Even there, like I wasn't in a terrible spot. People suspected me but I don't think I was in any real danger. It doesn't even depend on how much control scum think they have on the game. In the end, if I am lying, I'm dead anyway so it's a one-for-one trade. So either scum feels fucked and they decide to do a bogus cop claim to....what end exactly? A TON would still have to go right for them to have a path to win. The cop would have to get lynched (unlikely), then the other team would need to cooperate (I think? need to look at numbers again) and they would need to miss vests. Or scum feels good and they decide to do an inefficient 1 for 1 trade despite feeling in control? IF this reads legitimate to you, it implicates CC. Why would 3 man do this, why would they make the 1 for 1 trade if they feel in control? They wouldn't so there has to be another benefit. The benefit to VA/WoS/CC/me that came out of solstice's thing was that CC looked a little better for outing solstice. If the mindfuck has already begun, can't trust it anyway. | ||
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On October 10 2013 03:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yeah, I agree with this statement.Austin FYI none of you guys have pushed any of Solstice/CR/Pandain before N3 end (i mean really pushed -- i don't count some crappy votes or "cases" that were shit), besides Vayne labeling Pandain as scum as soon as Noire ended & Palmar flipped. | ||
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On October 10 2013 03:51 raynpelikoneet wrote: How is the solstice lynch a bus? Like, the only person that could "bus" solstice is CC making a fake payphone claim.The question is do you think if it's legitmate or not? And why? I have already given my analysis of the situation and tbh you look the worst given this Solstice thing because of your "do not lynch into the cops plan". We now know it in fact was a bus. Which kinda bus it was and why? Did scum want Solstice lynched, CC gain town credit from it because of the payphone? If so, why? Did CC need town credit? I want you to tell me this, not ask questions. I have given scenarios that make sense to me, and WoS & Vayne do not fit into those scenarios. On D5 i have given my analysis on CR and why he claimed scum, and it fits into my analysis from D4. Why am i wrong? What am i missing? I know i am right on the fact that it was a plan by the scum team, and the plan was to keep Pandain alive for the extra KP. You can't deny that, or if you will, tell me why? Why would scum out themselves when there are at least one confirmed townie + 1 unconfirmed person who will push Pandain lynch on D4? What gives? How do scum benefit from outing themselves? Not only once but twice. What's the point of CR retracting from his scumclaim on D5? Pandain flipped, that's the obvious reason. If you disagree with this, why? And why would he claim scum again later on? What's the point of not fighting? I have answers, but i can't say i am 100% sure. I know one of you has the answers because one of you is scum. I want to see what you make of the situation because at this poinst there is going to be 6 different analysis and only one of them is from scum. I want to analyze the scenarios to have a better overall view of how different people engage these situations and why. As far as the rest of the game, half you guys weren't willing to consider that solstice COULD be the cop, so what does scum gain from "bussing" like that? EVERYONE is in a single pocket, there's no cred for x or y except for cc. If the goal is to bus solstice, then I DON'T make sense, because you seem to think I came out looking WORSE for the day. You're suggesting that, if I'm scum, our team decided we would toss away solstice and that I would play to look scummier for the day. That's not a bus, in my mind. And it's not a bus for WoS or VA, because they don't come out looking particularly anti-solstice there. If you actually think bus, you think CC, imo. Honestly, CR either claims to keep the other team alive OR because the claim/unclaim thing looks very much like his town games. The reason he got lynched in town games is fake votes on people he thinks are town, to see if scum will try to mislynch those guys, and little tricks like that. It was a little late in the game to suddenly do that, but...the claim/unclaim thing is honestly the towniest-CR thing that CR has done. I don't think it's necessarily to confuse people or protect x or y, it may very well be because THAT POST looks like town CR, and he's not entirely wrong that scum has no reason to claim scum. So...I disagree with the premise that CR is claiming so as to protect or influence someone else, and I think it's more likely he's trying to protect himself. Yes, the lynch was probably pandain or CR today, and his claim helps cement it on himself. And his unclaim and dick around fits either scenario - no way to protect pandain OR no more ability to make yourself look townie and get the lynch ON pandain. Currently of the mindset that it's NOT scum trying to save pandain, because they were at 2-1, and if we lynch CR for claiming scum, teams are at 1-1. I don't think DRB wants to save Pandain so much that they're willing to sac their numbers advantage. They now are in a worse position relative to town AND the other mafia team. So I believe that CR's claim was for his own benefit, trying the claim/unclaim thing to try and appear town. (Yes, you read that correctly) | ||
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On October 10 2013 02:50 austinmcc wrote: Cheesecake, what were you referencing in this post: | ||
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On October 10 2013 04:08 raynpelikoneet wrote: This is another suggestion that I'm mafia because I didn't want to lynch either cop.Maybe scum wanted both of Sol/Koshi to live. No confirmed townies yet -> both live onto D5, noone except VE can be trusted. I do not know what happened. You can't say "people believed Koshi, that's why XYZ" because you do not know if people do believe Koshi over Sol before it happens. I still fully disagree with how you think my idea of no cop lynching plays out. If scum let both sol/koshi live, then KOSHI SHOOTS SOLSTICE IN THE FACE LAST NIGHT. If solstice actually lives until the next night, it means scum had to sacrifice KP. Like...if I'm mafia on that team, you're suggesting I: (1) suggest we not lynch koshi/solstice and instead lynch CR (WHO IS MY TEAMMATE) and (2) let Koshi either shoot solstice (my other teammate) OR spend KP to protect him. Why do I try and save teammate 1 by lynching teammate 2 while knowing that teammate 1 either dies or we lose KP, and if we ever kill Koshi, teammate 1 dies anyhow. | ||
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On October 10 2013 04:10 raynpelikoneet wrote: If the dude has a reputation, which we've discussed all game, for making these weird scummy plays as town, then making a weird scummy play as a way to seem town is ON THE TABLE.And the claim/unclaim thing is the scummies thing CR has done this game. 100%. You are talking bullshit now Austin. But when the scum teams are 2-1, I don't think that DRB sacrifices a member here to save the MCB. I would personally rather play 2-0, straight up against town, than town-1-1, knowing that EITHER side can kill me and I'm gone. I find it more likely that CR does that stunt to try to save himself than someone else. | ||
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On October 06 2013 00:58 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Final thought; S0lstice talking about mafia teams getting in contact with each other. Suspect as fuck. Find this talk. | ||
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On October 10 2013 04:41 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yeah, but your topic of choice is ... wonky.I am actually trying to make you guys give out your reads and try to interact with each other right now. Noone is doing a good job atm.. Hey WoS! Let's chat! Massa says we gotta chat! CR claims scum Massive scum plot or CR plot to look townie? Go! BONUS QUESTION: There's a 3 man scumteam that decides CHEESECAKE is the most likely mafia apart from them. solstice/CR/x. Fill in the x that believe Cheesecake is the most likely other scum OR the x that allows solstice to push Cheesecake as the most likely other scum. | ||
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On October 10 2013 05:03 VisceraEyes wrote: I have currently been assuming that the CR claim was at the very least not so premeditated that it stretches back all the way to N3/start of D4.To answer this question I'd need to know whether the CR claim is premeditated or not. Because that matters in the context of this question. At least to me, when I've got all 3 members alive and am like...a mislynch or two away from winning, I don't tell solstice to claim cop AND CR to claim scum, that's not my plan going into a day. | ||
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On October 10 2013 05:04 VisceraEyes wrote: My current assumption is that the claim/unclaim was connected, not connected to Pandain. So planned, but not planned with regards to Pandain.Wait your assumption is that no, it wasn't...that it was circumstantial to Pandain flipping or some other factor we're not aware of correct? Only planned as a way of making CR look a little like his townie self. When your townie self gets lynched for weird scummy plays, scumyou can try to make weird scummy plays in order to try and seem town. I DON'T think that it's planned all the way back to N3 though, see above. | ||
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What I'm more getting at is, IF the payphone thing is legit, who picks cheesecake? If it's not, it's fake anyway. CR's later claim doesn't factor into that for me, because by N4, the payphone thing has come and gone. | ||
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On October 10 2013 05:12 raynpelikoneet wrote: Bah. Says he wants us discussing stuff. Wants to cut the other people out of things.I dunno, who would pick CheeseCake? I don't KNOW who would pick cheesecake. If I'm mafia, and know that CR ISN'T the last banger, I probably pick WoS. See my discussion during N3, because of the way he avoids Palmar. I can also be kind of unwarrantedly bossy as scum, have more scum games than solstice, and would push contacting my target of choice over his. If VA is mafia, he thinks Pandain is last MCB as best I can tell. His team would have contacted Pandain. Both have been explicit enough that either it's a GIANT SUPER MEGA PLOT HOPING WE KEY IN ON THIS SINGLE THING, or we've been real in saying we suspect those bros. So I think VA comes out looking less likely than cc for this, because his mafia team doesn't contact cc. Between cc and wos, I still like cc better, just don't love WoS for non-Palmar scum, but I'll poke around him more. | ||
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Which i one reason I ask who solstice convinces cheese is the last MCB | ||
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On October 10 2013 09:03 VisceraEyes wrote: If they're different teams, then solstice convinces his team that Cheese is the other team.What are you talking about austin? So we need a solstice/cr/x team where x can be convinced that cheese is mafia. Like, unless it's mega mega next level, it makes VA look decent because VA has been calling pandain the last MCB. So if the whole thing is REAL, then solstice would have to convince his scumteam, including VA, that cheese and not pandain was the last MCB. Cuz it appears that VA would be pushing to contact pandain. I think CR or WoS is the last MCB, but if I were scum I'd be on CR's team. So I'd be pushing for WoS and solstice would be pushing cheese, if I were mafia. In this scenario, cheese is town and it's not fake, so he's out. Which leaves WoS. Which I don't really like. So either solstice is already setting things in motion N3 OR VA is calling Pandain last MCB but solstice convinces him otherwise (or VA faking the read) OR Wos is mafia OR (for you guys) I am calling WoS mafia but solstice convinces me otherwise (or me faking the read) | ||
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See what I'm saying? If the phone thing is LEGIT, then solstice convinces his team that Cheese is the guy they need to contact. So if it's legit, for me, VA looks better because VA would have been arguing for Pandain last MCB, contact Pandain, and VA appears to be a bit hardheaded and is fine with arguing forever. So I don't see the team contacting Cheese unless VA is faking his read on Pandain as last MCB. Which means that, for me, if Cheese is actually town and the phone thing is legit, it points to WoS being mafia. Which, again, ... I don't like. | ||
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So he DOES comment on cheese, but it looks like it's not throughout the game, and only the night right BEFORE the payphone claim. | ||
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On October 10 2013 09:18 VisceraEyes wrote: You know, in spite of those two large texts, I'm failing to see any kind of conclusions at all from you on the matter austin. CONCLUSIONS: IF THE PAY PHONE THING IS LEGIT THEN IT IMPLICATES WoS IF THE PAY PHONE THING IS NOT LEGIT THEN CHEESE IS THE MAFIA ALREADY SO NO CONCLUSIONS ARE NEEDED | ||
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On October 10 2013 09:21 VisceraEyes wrote: WHICH IS WHY I'M READING OVER THE SOLSTICE TIMING CUZ I WANT TO CHECK SOMETHING.THAT'S NOT A CONCLUSION THOSE ARE TWO OPTIONS AND YOU DON'T SAY WHICH YOU BELIEVE TO BE CORRECT, HENCE NOT A CONCLUSION THOSE ARE TWO CONCLUSIONS, JUST NOT A SINGLE CONCLUSION. Like, look at his filter. On October 05 2013 05:26 cakepie wrote: N03 SOUND ONLY Palmar the Motor City Banger suffered from severe food poisoning after eating the nightpost flavor! He pukes all over the place! Ewww. Oh no, FirmTofu didn't manage to get out of the way and has drowned in vomit! It is now Night 3. Send all night actions to all 3 hosts: cakepie, phagga, and Sentinel. Night ends in Night starts 10/5 5:26 s0lstice mentions cheese in his FIRST actual post: On October 01 2013 00:58 s0Lstice wrote: right well I'm here, taking me awhile to catch up. I'm about to say fuck it and just start playing from here on (with a helpful summary for pages 40-now from someone) but we'll see how much time I get tonight. I didn't want to say much without having a complete picture of the goings on but if that means I never start talking then it's no good. from what I've read I don't like hiro, or Oats. Cheesecakes weird pressure vote on Oats bothered me as well. hiro for his entrance into the thread and early passivity (agree with Palmar's points here). Oats (at least up to where I stopped) hasn't started tunneling anyone yet, and is doing his 'drop a question into a bucket' thing he does as scum. I saw him engaging with the thread but had trouble figuring out what he was hoping to get from his questions and/or didn't see what he was doing with the answers he got. There's some rumblings for FT. Nothing struck me as odd about him from what I read. I'll look closer tonight. AND THEN NEVER COMMENTS ON HIM AGAIN UNTIL N3 WHEN HE'S SUDDENLY SOLSTICE'S NUMBAH ONE CONTACT READ Which, to me, supports the idea that the read is faked. It's prepped on N3, right when the phone call would happen, but he never never never does anything about cheese beforehand. | ||
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I CAN GIVE YOU TWO OPTIONS, AND BECAUSE I DON'T THINK WoS IS SUPER MAFIA, I REJECT THAT OPTION AND CHOOSE THE "IT IS FAKE" OPTION | ||
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On October 10 2013 09:28 VisceraEyes wrote: I agree that solstice and cheese have interactions that don't make them look connected. However, those actions ONLY begin during N3, the cycle right when the payphone would be going through. Which makes them slightly more suspect than if solstice had been pushing this read for a while.So you're going with Cheese for mafia. Do you disagree with my point here? In the same way, cheese mentions solstice once on D3 as an option, behind oats/pandain - On October 04 2013 01:35 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: > Says he is playing game. > Doesn't post. A policy lynch at worst here. I'd enjoy a FT lynch because he is scummy and makes promises but doesn't follow up on them. Association with SnB. Votes from yesterday. All the things. Basically FT is one of those people that if we don't lynch, he's going to do nothing to remedy my scumread on him and I'm going to worry all game long if he is mafia or not. Aside from FT: Oats/pandain are probably scum somewhere between the teams. Maybe Solstice based on gut. I like Koshi's reads so he's totes town right now. A klondike bar could not be given to read Rayn so please check/shoot/modkill him so I'm not paranoid as hell about his alignment. Currently filtering Vayne to see what shenannies are to be had. But come N3, he wants to blow solstice up all of a sudden - On October 05 2013 05:45 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: We cab lynch solstice or oats tmrw right? Maybe pandain... My epeen needs a boost On October 05 2013 06:05 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Solstice so paranoid about getting lynched. Let's lynch him! Whatever, you can read my thoughts VE. I think that the conclusions you should be drawing from payphone legit, solstice scum, cheese town, do not fit the game as well as the conclusions to be drawn from payphone fake. Like, while VA has been scummy for me, he's being hardheaded and arguing and not giving up and being a dick. If solstice and CR are in a QT with that guy, solstice isn't convincing VA that cheesecake is the last MCB. VA will say he's an idiot and dumb and his points are invalid, and tell solstice that pandain is the last MCB and they are contacting pandain. And WoS looked weird for his palmar stuff, but has been active and more or less townie and unless someone has a smoking gun on him, we're all looking elsewhere. So if I don't like the conclusion I draw from the payphone being real, "solstice convinces VA to contact cheese over pandain," I have to conclude that the payphone is fake. The suspicions aren't enough to convince me otherwise, because all of a sudden night hits and BOOM, both suspect the other. | ||
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On October 10 2013 09:45 VayneAuthority wrote: as an aside, thats completely wrong austin, I treat my team a lot different then when I'm playing solo. Check any of my scum QTs. I usually am the guy willing to listen to everyone's side and reason it out. Okay. That's good to know and weakens/negates all my caps. | ||
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Thread, QT, IRL, just been assuming. Generally I'm not, but have been arguing with you here, so probably shouldn't assume. What games have you been scum in, just so I can peek? | ||
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On October 10 2013 10:16 VisceraEyes wrote: True on the inactive bit. I mean, there was a large chunk where s0L wasn't even in the game - he was one of the more inactive players in the game, and he REPLACED an inactive. Given that, I don't think the timing of his push on Cheese means all that much. That, and I don't think they're on a scumteam based on the interactions I saw. I do see more discussion from vayne about kill targets and such than I was expecting. Even just from the last couple chunks of QT posts of his scum games, he's presenting multiple options, asking for input, even from kush... So ... the caps aren't as convincing as I'd like. | ||
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solstice doesn't DO anything with my post, doesn't respond and doesn't talk about that one post of cc's, which I think is his scummiest of the game, but I didn't attack cc enough for me to read much into solstice's lack of comment. | ||
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Look at the full game though. You see me wavering on solstice D4 and suggesting my other mafia buddy as the alternate? You see me...if my team is sacrificing solstice, letting him claim cop rather than go after cc, you see me not just cutting him and letting him go? This all sounds like WIFOM because you think I might be mafia, but while those interactions with solstice don't look good, I DO have interactions that don't make sense if I'm the third. | ||
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The whole collecting votes but not mine thing also looks bad for me. But I do like that he's looking more active. | ||
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On October 10 2013 11:00 VisceraEyes wrote: I can't spin NOT wifom on that. Like, you don't trust me, so anything I say about my own associations is WIFOM, pretty much.Yeah but, austin your play has been too townie for you to still be alive at this point. Your posts have been huge and you were all over s0Lstice early on. Logic dictates that you should be dead - that s0Lstice should have feared your textwalls saying he's scum and shot the shit out of you. I mean...spin all the WIFOM you want friend. But be warned that I'm pretty well versed on the subject myself. I appreciate the complement, but it turns out I'm not dead. I wasn't around yet on N1. I wasn't a factor yet by N2. By N3, koshi had already claimed cop and confirmed you and rayn. There wasn't exactly a good time for me to get shot IF scum were afraid of me, because by the time I was really poking at them they had to deal with a cop and 2 confirmed towns. | ||
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Aperture 2 I try to pull people off scumbuddy iamperfection D1, and never really talk about Hiro. In personality 2, Ver was on our team and never read his role PM, DarthPunk comes in for him on like...D3 or something and looks AWFUL. I don't even DISCUSS him, and try to keep marv and foolishness fighting with each other. I don't think I really mention half or more of my teammates that game and they all lived, so it wasn't a tiny chunk of the game. I DID shoot some scumbros in Aperture 3, and was on alakaslam once he looked odd, and on randombum just because he was part of our plan, for me to be scummy on him but take him out at night. Off the top of my head I don't think I really give reads or put focus on other teammates though. I got me some scum games to look at. I'm generally NOT a fan of talking about my team. | ||
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On October 10 2013 11:09 VisceraEyes wrote: In my mind, I'm not a ... big factor on N2? I DO have a case on solstice, I call him out, he wants more, I make a large post. And I call vayne out for speculation, try to get oats posting.What do you mean you "weren't a factor yet"? You were in the game and posting walls and making cases on s0Lstice! But I don't think me on N2 is as much a factor in the game as I become later. Not until starting to argue with Pandain about Palmar > FT/Vayne do I really feel like I'm in this game. I can't tell you why I don't get shot N2. Maybe solstice thinks he's swayed me, because my last posts on him are: On October 02 2013 10:42 austinmcc wrote: Fair (but you're still mafiaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa). Care to substantiate your FT read? Or talk about something else. Right now I'm going to be generally scummy on you because of what I've seen. And I will try to convince others you're scummy. If you're town, spend time doing townie stuff and don't argue with me solely about what's already happened in this game or others. On October 02 2013 10:42 austinmcc wrote: Please And the HAL post. Maybe he thinks I'm actually more open-minded, just concerned with his lack of involvement, and will back off if he gets more active. Maybe just because I'm on solstice doesn't mean I'm #1 on their list. I dunno. I can't tell you why I'm not shot. All I can say is that I don't think I was particularly involved and threatening until the point where we already had a cop and confirmed townies. I'm not on CR on D2/N2. And I'm on solstice, find him scummy, but perhaps sound like I can be swayed. | ||
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On October 10 2013 11:18 VisceraEyes wrote: My goose is entirely uncooked, and if you cook it, you'll be goose-sorry.Meh - s0L does nothing townie between the posts you just quoted as your last to him (where, by the way, you say he's scummy and that you'll try and convince others that he's scummy, which, you don't) and the post where you vote for Palmar. Your goose is cooked austin. If I'm wrong, For the record though, I still think you're the bomb diggity and yours have been some of the most enjoyable posts in the game. The thing he does that's townie is actually POST and be somewhat involved. It ain't the towniest thing ever, I agree, but look at why I'm scummy on him. We're both replacements, I feel guilty and want to get involved, he doesn't seem to. My entire suspicion rests on low posts/low involvement, which him posting alleviates somewhat. Have you found the source of this, VE? On October 06 2013 00:58 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Final thought; S0lstice talking about mafia teams getting in contact with each other. Suspect as fuck. | ||
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Cheese doesn't say solstice talking about the mafia teams figuring out/addressing the other team. He says "getting in contact." | ||
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On October 10 2013 11:32 VisceraEyes wrote: It bugs me, and it smells like a "maybe something went wrong/maybe he's thinking of some QT post" thing.What are you getting at? This is something you've brought up before and I'm curious to know where it's going. Like...IF the phone is fake, then N3 is also fake, solstice and cheese just distancing themselves so that solstice goes under for a cause. They'd have planned it out N3, which is when that cheese post pops up. To me, it's an indicator of fakeplan. They've decided to separate themselves during the night, solstice calls cheese scum scum scum. And either solstice is supposed to say something in thread, but never did, and cheese never checked, or solstice put something in QT that cheese is referencing. Or I'm paranoid. But if you're considering the solstice/cheese stuff being fake, it's this weird anomaly that stands out, indicating that cheese saw/expected to see something out of solstice that ain't in thread. | ||
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On October 10 2013 11:39 VisceraEyes wrote: I did look and try to find the source. I found no source.Like, this is the third time I think that you've mentioned that without any kind of direction. Could you not have looked for yourself to try and find the source? And if you did and couldn't find it, why not post what you think it means? I mainly wanted to see what Cheese said about it, if he could find some posts that he was referring to. But then cheese hasn't been in thread, so I asked you and rayn instead. Still would like to see what cheese said he's referring to. You were supposed to interpret my question as "Hey, here's this spot where cheese mentions x but I looked and I never saw x" and not "Hey, here's this spot where cheese mentions x, but I'm too lazy to check for x, so I'll have VE go do it" | ||
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Also ... how can I post that multiple times and then duck around the corner going "Hee hee hee, they'll never suspect it was ME that pointed out this one thing!" | ||
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On October 10 2013 11:50 VisceraEyes wrote: +1But...you made a simile... | ||
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Look at my friggin' D4. JUST LOOK AT IT. Look at scum QT from Aperture 3 where I fight the team on NKs, sometimes making stupid decisions, but really trying to force my will for night actions/shots. Look at my other scumgames where I really don't mention my teammates. | ||
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On October 10 2013 12:51 VisceraEyes wrote: You're lucky I'm still awake. No, you don' have anything to compare it to this game, therefore I'm not scum! BOOM!I don't understand what you expect me to find looking at your scum QTs in other games. I have no reference from this game to compare to dooooo I? DOOOOOOOOOO AAAYYEEEEEEEEEEEEE?? Mainly, at least from Aperture 3, that I will argue on NKs and actions and be paranoid and everything, but generally try to like...get my way. I may be overemphasizing based on how I felt about that one, but I was pretty pushy in the QT when it came to us having disagreements on lynch targets or power usages, and I'd really push for my side of things. If the scumteam is CR/solstice/me, we wouldn't have payphoned no CC. He was willing to vote for Palmar, didn't really fit what I was expecting from the third MCB. I woulda argued and argued and we totes would have contacted WoS, because CR would have been on my team so we couldn't contact him. THAT is what I think you'll find, and it's a super nebulous concept that may or may not appear, but hopefully should, from at least that QT. I argue my side and I try to get the team to take the actions/shots I want. Solstice so bad at scum he lied in the thread to me about his alignment and also tried that claim. I'd totally try and pull mafia rank on him and make us contact WoS (if I were mafia). This point sounds a bit dumber written out, but ... it's like what I was saying with VA except I was wrong. I would have pushed for my target and not cheesecake, because cheesecake doesn't make sense as the third MCB imo. You're not looking for a particular post. You're looking for ... me having some pushiness when it comes to actions/shots. | ||
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On October 10 2013 12:58 VisceraEyes wrote: Thank you. It's the best town game I've had in a while, although I haven't been as wonderful after the earlier days, and I don't appear to have accomplished townie mission one.I'm totally up for accepting your concession dude. You played REALLY well. And yet it's still the best town game in a while | ||
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That D4 makes NO SENSE if I'm teamed with solstice/CR. And I wasn't/my team wouldn't have been in a position that a NO SENSE play makes sense. You yourself had commented that you were fucked if I were mafia. But I'm not. Professor Farnsworth indicated that I had good news for you (my being town). | ||
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I don't know why we're the only two people talking. Everyone else is probably just reading and has grown long, wispy beards, which they are stroking as they read our posts and thinking to themselves, "mmm hmmm. austinmcc so wise, and so correct (about his own alignment). VE has good points, but they don't make austinmcc mafia, although he's doing a nice job of presenting them." When they stop beard-stroking, they'll have hands free to type again. | ||
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On October 10 2013 02:50 raynpelikoneet wrote: This sounds dumb, but please explain what you mean by "bussing" here.(4) It is clear that D4 onwards scum were bussing and bussing hard. Who is the last scum and why do their actions from D4 onwards make most sense from scum!pov? On October 10 2013 07:54 VayneAuthority wrote: Can you unpack this answer? I guess specifically, how do my actions on D4 onwards implicate me. You say I was targeting them recently, entirely true esp on CR, but go through how my actions D4 onwards implicate me and make sense from a scum pov in your mind.4. Austin has been targeting s0lstice and CR for a bit recently, this implicates him the most. S0lstice also warmed up to an austin lynch before the whole fiasco but never actually expands on it. | ||
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On October 11 2013 05:17 VayneAuthority wrote: Given that rayn specifically asks about actions, and given that I have some...peculiar actions, do they fit scumaustinmcc for you, or do you believe they are just less convincing than the interactions?its not about making sense or not at this point. 2 of the 3 members pretty much gave themselves up. Logic is no longer an issue here. I am looking purely at an interactions. The interactions between you and s0lstice are abrupt and soft push-y, they look weird. CR does not even address your cases against him, which is ultra super fucking weird. He has no problem arguing all day with me but he never even addresses your case against him or anything. When CR gives him scrumreads he puts me as the last banger and s0lstice/you/CC as the other team. I don't think he would be smart enough to leave WoS out as his partner completely, so I am pretty confident it's you or CC. Both you and mr.CC have weird interactions with s0lstice/CR thats all there is to it | ||
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I still have a hard time figuring out how my D4 makes sense as scum, but I can see some bits and pieces of other stuff you'd look at. If that's more convincing, a scumread from you is better/townier than you trying to force everything I've done to be scummy, a la rayn. | ||
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On October 11 2013 07:22 VisceraEyes wrote: We don't seem to write/think the same way. This has happened like 3-4 times over the course of the game, earlier you thinking that I wasn't quite calling someone scum or wasn't quite doing x, when in my mind I was.I'm pretty sure...he wasn't as overtly abrasive in the scum game I read and that's pretty much the only serious difference, but his conclusions match mine and I'm going with town. Wave you should read austin and my interactions on the last 4 or 5 pages. Over the course of questioning him I had a really hard time getting him to commit to a scumread, and it didn't feel like it was because he wasn't sure or was paranoid or whatever. And he's got some interactions with s0L that are basically unexplainable from a town perspective. I DON'T fully know. I AM unsure. Just...remember this one for future games. | ||
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On October 11 2013 07:31 VisceraEyes wrote: There have been a few times this game where it's popped up. Not just yesterday.I was referencing the bit where you were giving me options instead of conclusions austin...and I still attest that until I dragged it out of you, you were NOT saying that Cheese was the most suspicious. You were giving me options and expecting me to be like "Oh okay, so THAT'S who austin thinks is scum" when I couldn't have possibly gleaned that information from the info you provided. Yesterday WAS mainly thoughts/options, not conclusions. Things that I'm trying to make sense of. When I'm spammy, I'm not posting neatly packaged conclusions. And especially if it looks like people want to lynch me, my goal, as disorganized as it may be, is to just get all my thoughts into the thread. Maybe something in there is important, maybe not. On October 11 2013 07:28 VisceraEyes wrote: It's either all/mostly bullshit, or very little bullshit. If stuff like "he's alive" factors into your read, so should things like "his scumbuddy claimed cop, claimed scum, and austinmcc came out looking worse than anyone else in the game (apparently), why would solstice sac himself to make his buddy look BAD."It was me - I brought that up in response to some WIFOM bullshit he gave me. Feeding him his own bullshit as it were. You can call it all bullshit and that's okay, but then you've got to toss things that are both for AND against me, imo. I don't think it's all bullshit. I've explained my being alive as best I can, but I don't know why other people do what they do. | ||
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And I know my best bet is to find other dudes. Stuff like that solstice interaction isn't something I can go "yup, here's a super townie explanation." I can give you the HONEST explanation, and can you question my lack of followup postgame/in later games/when we cuddle. I just...usually if I get suspected as mafia it's because it's early game and i'm semi-afk or useless on D1 or something. When it gets lategame and I'm under suspicion, I get all prickly and I want to fully understand exactly why people are on my nuts. If you don't care about my D4/me being alive/any of that stuff, it's all good. But you brought that up, and then WoS got the still alive thing as the major takeaway from your posts. So...either it was a bigger factor in your posting on me than you thought or WoS needs glasses. But yeah, npnp if you're throwing out all WIFOM-y stuff except you should definitely consider all the stuff I say. I heard your cry for help with the bear. I kinda/sorta came to the rescue OR made it worse, definitely one of the two. You can trust me. | ||
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The same way my reads on you and cc as scum (before pandain flipping) were based PRIMARILY, or at least you caught my eye primarily, because of single posts that I thought could ONLY come from the mafia point of view. FT, SP, and oats each made these little comments or had a specific point or discussion that scum don't do. There are posts on both FT and SP, you can see my thought process. | ||
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So it's a combination, it's not just the reads, it's that those reads got in the way of mafia objectives. I pushed for mafia lynches over townie lynches. Which is GREAT if we want me to get some cred, look nice, and survive til lategame. But if the goal is "i kind of push mafia, call townies town, survive til lategame," then ... I don't know why I suggest alternate plans on D4. And I don't know why my team chooses ME to push against mislynches and survive til lategame, because I would expect me to get shot if my reads are good. Why not give CR the correct reads, let HIM get the cred but never push anything hard? He can survive til lategame and NOT look odd. Like...if this is a big fat plan for me to push scumbuddies and not push town, ... it doesn't make sense for ME to be the person whose shoulders we put that on. We put it on someone who people don't know well, who doesn't seem threatening, just seems to have decent reads but never really pushed em, so wasn't a threat to scum. ALL OF THIS SUCKS BUT I CAN'T STOP. I'll try and go poke filters instead. | ||
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On October 11 2013 10:12 VayneAuthority wrote: As a returning of the honesty, in MOST of my scumgames I've been pretty lurky/unnoticed early, and gotten more active/more controlling over the game later.it does count for something. unless you are pandain and heavy effort/tunneling like that = scum, as well as his stupid go through your filter and comment on it thing Persona is an outlier there, but in general I tend to start putting in more effort mid/late as scum. It just also happens to be my towngame, just like the later days and trying to actually solve the game better than the early poking and prodding. | ||
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On October 11 2013 10:17 VisceraEyes wrote: Gonzaw. I wasn't in that one.austin was it you or gonzaw who dominated Liar Game toward end-game? I was scum in Aperture 2 with hiro/iamperfection, win. Replaced into CT Mafia as scum, got lynched and we lost. Scum in Persona 2 or something, our team dominated, win. Scum in PTP 4 Demon's Run, our team got blown apart but managed to win because of KP everywhere and me going HAM on anti-town kita. Scum in Aperture 3, team won. Those are my only scumgames, with CT being my only replacement game. I think the only game where I've really dominated at endgame is PTP4, and that's due to it being PTP, not my scum skill. | ||
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On October 11 2013 10:22 VayneAuthority wrote: No, I agree. I DON'T think CR's claim was fake, and I think it was actually him trying to do something weird in order to look like his town self. I still stand by that, although rayn super disagrees.austin if you recall though CR's claim wasn't a team thing, he did it on his own. He revealed later that his last teammate was really mad at his play. I think it's genuine and I am ignoring the CR part as part of some elaborate play or w/e And if I were his teammate, I would have been really mad at him And solstice for claiming cop instead of 1v1ing cheesecake. I guess what I'm saying is, if I am mafia, we set ME up for endgame by bussing, despite me being the person who would look out of place. If solstice/cr/austinmcc sets someone up by having them bus so they can make it to endgame, we do that with CR. I know his claim would have ruined that, if that's what you're getting at, and agree that it's not part of a plan. But like...if I'm mafia and the plan is "someone bus the other two, hard bus one and kinda waver on the other, and call townies townies," then I would honestly assign that duty probably to CR. | ||
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Fake wrong word. I don't think it was planned as a way to keep other scum team alive. I think it was actually CR trying to look like town CR. | ||
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On October 11 2013 10:27 VisceraEyes wrote: ONLY IF I'M MAFIA. And you said you were fucked if I were mafia, so ... you better find me townie or you'll be fucked? Cuz if you said you'd be fucked if I'm mafia and then I'm mafia and you're not fucked, you lied, and should be lynched for lying? AUSTIN BUT THE FACT THAT YOU'RE THE ONE SAYING ALL THIS MAKES IT MEANINGLESS I dunno. When you get mislynched, don't you KNOW your play that game? Don't you feel like there are all these things that people aren't taking into account, or particular quirks in your play that you know but other people don't seem to see? Like...PARANOID AND CAN'T MAKE UP HIS MIND ABOUT THE COP AUSTIN. And like all this other crap. Just because it comes from me doesn't mean it doesn't make SENSE. I'll admit the crap that I've done that's scummy (that solstice --> no comment --> palmar vote), because I know it looks scummy. But I'm going to fight you on crap I DON'T think is scummy. Whether you trust me or not, I'ma post me some posts. | ||
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Like, if I can convince you I'm town, and we're actually looking at having two lynches, then the game is won. | ||
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On October 11 2013 10:42 VayneAuthority wrote: That's why it says "IF . . . we actually have two lynches".the thing is, me and rayn concluded earlier that there can be two kills tonight. we don't know that we have 2 lynches yet. On October 11 2013 10:38 VisceraEyes wrote: Yeah, it got interesting quick.I know I've never had more anxiety over a seemingly won game in all my life XD More crap that I probably don't do if I'm scum - On October 08 2013 14:29 austinmcc wrote: ... Koshi, I would ask that you shoot VA or myself tonight. I trust you to make a decent decision within or outside of that, but here is my reasoning. You, as far as I can tell, think VA is town. You've got some doubts, some little things that bug you, but appear to think he's town. Dunno where you currently are on me. But here's the thing, VA and I appear to be ... entirely opposed. I've been calling him mafia. He's been calling me mafia. For a while now. Both of us would like to show that the other guy is mafia and that we're town. Not only that, but finding the townie betwixt us is important. It colors some other things, possible what to do about Pandain. If you shoot into us tonight, you confirm someone or kill scum. And if you confirm someone, we can be nearly nearly nearly 100% that the other one is mafia. It should also be relatively apparent that we are NOT the two remaining scum. This isn't a ploy to have one of us shot and the other skate through. You may not trust me entirely, but this is entirely sensible, and ensures that you pretty much get TWO reads off of a single action tonight. You have found VA townie, but he is not. You have found me scummy at times, but if we had gone with my plan of lynching outside the cops and lynching CR, we would have eliminated MCB (bee tee dubs, scum need all the night KP they can get, finishing off an entire team would be BAD for scum, and scum would not want that to happen) Any bus works, any shot works, but I think that by shooting into the two of us you get two reads for the price of one. On October 08 2013 14:36 austinmcc wrote: The night action is up to Koshi, but I think there's good reason to shoot into us. There are other good options, but I think this provides the MOST information. We also will know what he did, because he'll tell us right before it happens. If scum want to bother roleblocking him or vesting someone, they're short 1 KP. And they don't know if the vest is wasted, because they don't know if VA will get shot. They'd run the chance that they vest him, I get shot, they have a member outed AND lost a KP. Bad fo scum. There's a teensy weensy itsy bitsy chance we're both town, but I just don't see things playing out like that. | ||
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On October 11 2013 10:49 WaveofShadow wrote: Austin I have one question for you. When you were outed as scum in PTP at the end of the game, did you lie about anything regarding yourself and/or when you attempted to get kita lynched? If so, what did you lie about? (it's been a long time since that game and I was already long dead at that point---don't feel like rereading again but I will if you make me.) Yeah. We both doctored our PMs. Kita doctors his QT to make it look like he was neutral survivor, I doctored geript and myself in QT to make it look like geript told me kita had claimed mafia-aligned 3P. I also edited OUT any mentions of my mind control power, as it was necessary to my winning. But in general, once I accidentally claimed, I was honest and in an odd way scumhunted kita, trying to convince gonzaw/crossfire that kita was the more dangerous anti-town faction. Otherwise, apart from editing out mind control and rewording a couple geript posts, it's all legit. Truth and healthy healthy amounts of paranoia. Dudes who wait til N23 or N27 or whatever to NK the last townie in a 1-1 scenario are not dudes who let their scumbuddies claim scum. | ||
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But ... BC? i think, had a red check on geript so he got lynched over me on D2, and the game ended after D3 basically, either that or it was D3/D4. There was no pre-planning. I did a crapton of spamming QT alone about how I think crossfire is a bus driving NRA member vet, when trying to figure out who to shoot the night before the final lynch. I spent my whole weekend dealing with an ex IRL and making charts about crossfire and what he might do with his 8 billion stupid townie powers. I never intended to claim. I thought game was over. Crossfire was a vote thief, and I was brain dead enough after my weekend to think that once he stole a vote once it was stuck where he put it. So I claimed in response to that, thinking there was no way to lose. No plan. Super tryhard after that, but ... entirely not pre-planned. | ||
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On October 11 2013 10:59 WaveofShadow wrote: Oh, gotcha. I don't think I was pushing kita based on paranoia.Like the issue is I was trying to see if that 'healthy dose of paranoia' you threw into that game and you had this game are in any way different and it turns out they're not. If you're capable of real paranoia as scum you're certainly capable of faking it here imo, or having it be real as town. We KNEW he had shots. We KNEW he had claimed a role some rewording of weeping angel, that's a villian in the Dr. Who universe. I KNEW via geript that he was not neutral, or...was like 90% certain, based on what geript had said. So it wasn't preying on paranoia to lynch kita. I AM paranoid as scum, but it comes out in a different way. Check the last bit of scum QT from PTP4, or from...Aperture 3. I get crazy paranoid over shots, who might have what power, etc. etc. etc. Either one of those highlights my paranoia outlet as scum, I just blabber on in QT about all the possible things that could happen. | ||
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2) His stance on FT, there is literally no way anyone could think he is town -- by Austins methods, CR should have looked way more town than FT OF COURSE there are ways to think someone is town. LOOK AT YOUR POST. I'm scummy because I had a 100% scumread. But I'm also scummy because I thought FT was town, when there's NO WAY that could be the case.You're arguing FT was 100% scummy AND that I was scummy for finding CR 100% scum. Do you not see this? The inconsistency between those statements AND the fact that you're arguing that there was no way ANYONE could think a townie was town. You're saying FT played an ENTIRELY scum game, every post, every thought, every read. That's ridiculous. 3) His 100% sure scumread on CR Never participates in the thread. Dumps pre-made posts. Avoids making reads based on posts posts posts, always couches his reads in terms of who looks good/bad from specific actions and branches out from there. Has a nothingread on Palmar, who appears to maybe be scum or maybe be town, but CR wants to save him anyway without actually finding him townie. You can't go FT obv scum, solstice obv scum and koshi obv cop, pandain obv scum, but CR totes not obv scum.And nope, couldn't distinguish! See my early scumread on Koshi. I was scummy on BOTH of them early on. So yeah, I had a scumread on solstice, who claimed cop, maybe shoulda distrusted more. But I also had a scumread on koshi before his claim. And solstice DOES back up some of his claims with posts. I noted that a lot of his "we checked x" claims were supported by Hiro's posts, not solstice's, but he DID have some support for his actions. Paranoid, I've done dumb stuff before and always assume other people can, etc. etc. | ||
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On October 05 2013 06:24 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: I love me some random caps, but it's a curious capitalization.We should totes lynch oats tho. Seeing red flips is so invigorating and DIFFERENT! Not gonna lynch or not lynch based on that, but lol if it's a signal. Palmar and Pandain both claim, Cheese signals. | ||
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On October 12 2013 01:53 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yes. VA still worries me, but looking over WoS he didn't as much. Austin do you think it's possible for WoS/Vayne to be scum? The palmar stuff is still butt, otherwise not butt. I want to look back through him, but current thought process is this: He looked scummy in particular for post-oats death. And I get paranoid that him going "Yeah, if we have two lynches, I'm perfectly fine lynching oats --> austin" means he's scum and knows that when it's just VA/austinmcc left as lynches, if he leaves you up you probably lynch me (I also assume this is true for him in reverse). But the way in which we've argued has made me townier on him, I think the points he's making are mostly decent and he's not...reaching. It's the opposite of why I hated the cheese post on oats, where it feels like cheese's thought process if "I want oats to be mafia, so I need to find some stuff that supports that, here is some stuff." The more I fought with VA, and the more I watch his reads develop, they don't appear to be "I need to come to this conclusion, now I will work out the posts to get there." But if it ain't cheese, it ends up being VA. A quick read of WoS's early days only popped up a single thing that MIGHT be scummy, and that's a reach to say that all his stuff about TL towns being terrible and town sucking and being awful was a way to signal that he's mafia to the other team. Entirely speculative, means very little, and so apart from his Palmar read, he doesn't stand out to me. Given that he'd be on the other team from Palmar, that wonky read matters less than when he could potentially be on Palmar's team. | ||
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Second sentence concerns WoS. 3rd-5th blurbs concern VA. | ||
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On October 12 2013 02:23 raynpelikoneet wrote: I haven't noticed any while playing through, and almost at this point it doesn't matter.So you do not find these towntells you found from for example FT's posts from Vayne's posts? I mean, with some people you seem to be working differently than others. FirmTofu had some posts "mafia could not make", same with Pandain. It's not like every single post makes someone mafia. And there are no "townslips". Read Titanic where i couldn't get FirmTofu lynched all game because he townslipped on D1. Funny.. he was mafia. I DO see very very townie progressions in WoS's filter, and I'm not mafia. I will read through and let you know once I'm out of this game | ||
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So if it ain't cc, it's one of the other two, regardless of townie play. I also maintain that, whether he's played townie or scummily, those posts on oats come from the mafia mindset. Cheese has his own mafia mindset post on oats though and now it can only be one person. | ||
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On October 12 2013 02:55 raynpelikoneet wrote: Ya, those posts come from mafia mindset. As far as meta, VA himself seems to love claiming that he has none/changes it/can't be read/etc. etc. You believe that all to be crap? (full disclosure, I do, but at the very least he claims to muddy the waters on his town style)No it doesn't. "I don't find the "convincing others" part to be very fun or interesting. I just like seeing if what I am doing is correct. " Whether or not you think this is wise it's a perfect summary of how Vayne plays as town. Unless he has changed his meta a full 180 this is town!Vayne without any doubt. On October 12 2013 02:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: I already addressed this. It's not about right or wrong on the read. There are two ways to respond to being wrong.Vayne's reaction to Oats confirmation would be a scumtell for most of the people playing mafia, but not to him. He cares more about if he is right or not compared to who is winning or who gets lynched.
The townie response attacks oats's play, because oats's perceived poor play made him look scummy. The scummy response attacks the cop for taking a "bad shot," and figures out reasons why Koshi was dumb and his check might be wrong. VA did the scummy response and only like 20-30 minutes later did he finally utter the townie "can't believe oats was town while playing that way." VA may really want to be right, but he can be wrong and attack oats or attack koshi. His posts indicate he almost blamed koshi for his own wrong read on oats - bad target, oats might still be scum. | ||
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On October 12 2013 03:10 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why does he do that as mafia? Cuz he wants to respond to the check and possibly undermine it, still get oats lynched. Or just because he wants to respond, feels like he should post about this, and makes a scummy post. Mafia make scummy posts, it happens.So why does he do that as mafia? Is it more likely that he wants to claim scum rather than that he cannot believe Oats was town and was angry because of it? Which is more likely? It's not about oats being townie and him being angry. It's about oats being townie and him being angry AT SOMETHING. The something he's angry at is important. People who blame the cop for checking, and do so based on misrepresenting how things probably play out (oats prime bulletproof target as mafia), are more likely to be mafia. | ||
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On October 12 2013 03:15 VayneAuthority wrote: Yaya. 9/10 dentists agree.do you have like statistical data to back up that last statement? LOL No stats, but it worked with ange in ... rock band mini. She reacted in a slightly wonky way to a screwed up claim about 5 minutes before we lynched a mason, and the way she did it showed she wasn't actually thinking about whether the claim was legit or not. That's the only time I can think of that a particular reaction has felt mafia mindset-y to me. I won't claim that 1/1 is equivalent to it being correct all ova da place. | ||
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On October 12 2013 03:16 WaveofShadow wrote: I get this, rayn is saying the same thing, "Why would he do that?"Ehhhhh I'm not 100% sure on Vayne (mostly because my recent townread is based on some mind-meld town POV stuff, and every other time I've based reads on like one post this game I've been wrong), but I don't necessarily see how that's a scum reaction. I'd be WAY more careful as scum to let my anger over losing a mislynch target spill into the thread. Like.,...why would you not fake the joy or go for the townie reaction here? I 100% would. It boils down to the options: A townie had the scummy reaction and attacked the cop for stopping a mislynch, trying to undermine the veracity of the check. OR A mafia player posted a scummy post. Sometimes they slip, sometimes they post too quick, I know I've posted stuff as mafia and gone OH NO NO NO. Other people have outed themselves as mafia through single posts, it DOES happen. And most of the time, if someone accidentally slips, it's going to be when a plan goes awry, something mafia didn't expect suddenly pops up and they react to it. | ||
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On October 12 2013 03:23 raynpelikoneet wrote: P'shaw. We'll find out soon enough why he did that, but I still think it's to try and look townie.I also can't get past Austin's reaction to CR claiming scum on N4. | ||
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Apart from those small reactions, here are two large things that stick out to me. One has already been covered ad nauseum, the other is his posts on CR. On October 01 2013 14:26 VayneAuthority wrote: Null.alright now I get to tear you to shreds. Let me show you why you're making a grave error here. 1. You say FT looks town because he is going after "good players that aren't considered to be scummy by the majority." I have been doing the same thing by going after grackaroni, palmar, and pandain yet I am somehow scum to you. Contradiction #1 2. You are complaining about my personality and my playstyle, not mentioning things that make me scummy. If it was as simple as people that care are town and people that don't care are scum nobody would play mafia since it would be pointlessly easy. Koshi is a townread because he isn't even trying to look town yet I get flak for simply bullshitting with other players that are also bullshitting? Contradiction #2 3. I'm being active without any obligation. I could easily just lurk like half of this game right now but I'm not. Seems to make austin a town read but not me...Hm. Contradiction #3 I could do more but I think that is sufficient. If you need help from your scum team on not making easy posts to debunk then ask them in the QT. if you are town then stop bothering me. On October 05 2013 03:06 VayneAuthority wrote: Not townie.all I know about CR is that he has never rolled scum here before and Coag said he plays scum well on the other site they play together. I don't find him townie at all really but I guess im alone. more on that before night ends. In short, it seems like he is using me as leverage for the lynch tomorrow, so that he has an excuse to already vote me tomorrow without doing much of anything again. On October 06 2013 01:54 VayneAuthority wrote: Pressure vote, no clear read.if anything im going to be pressure voting CR tomorrow. fuck this lurking shit when i dont know anything about the guy On October 08 2013 12:07 VayneAuthority wrote: I don't really care at this point if he's scum or not, just bored with these mega lurkers that make the game impossible if they are alive at endgame, which could happen On October 08 2013 12:14 VayneAuthority wrote: Don't care/he's scum if other reads are wrong.assuming im wrong about one of pandain/austin he would be my filler choice. Still not sure on the 3rd really ever since oats got confirmed. No idea who the last banger is. Cheesecake? bad. I dont know man. He doesn't get a read on CR for CR's early attack on VA. He never really bothers to address CR at all, despite CR somewhat attacking VA in thread and despite CR being a legitimate topic of discussion at times. Even the posts that read like he DOES have thoughts on CR, they're never really explicit. "I don't find him townie at all" without explanation, "I don't really care", "He's my filler scum if I'm wrong on x or y." There's never a reason he's scum, or a reason he's not scum. Sort of halfway mentioning CR while never actually addressing him reads as scummy to me. Overall, he stays where he is for me, scummier than WoS but townier than cc. | ||
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On October 12 2013 04:05 VayneAuthority wrote: in what universe is calling grack/pandain/palmar scum not going anywhere with the BH kill? On September 30 2013 07:37 VayneAuthority wrote: You explicitly state you don't know what it means. You say 2/3 of those probably come off looking the worst, but not that they do. You say BH is maybe a potential "fear kill" for grackaroni.So I have no idea why anyone shot BH or what this means. The only people that trusted him even remotely were pandain, grack, and palmar. Everybody else tried to throw suspicion on him or said he was scummy. He died though so we know it wasn't a cop kill. Sooo wtf is going on here. Palmar/Pandain probably come off looking the worst from this since palmar gave him a town read and visa versa and pandain is trying to lynch FT through his dead body. Grack has some sort of boner for BH where he looks up to him so that is a potential fear kill. No need to reply to this post, I won't read it You're straight up saying you don't know what to make of things and you DON'T explicitly call them scum. Not when you're initially poking around. | ||
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On October 12 2013 04:08 raynpelikoneet wrote: Pointing it out cool, pointing out things --> getting reads on people cool.I actually find this very townie post. That thing with Coag <--> CR is from Noir and i remember it aswell. I think it was not worthless to point out. But IF he has a read here, it's slightly murky as "don't find him townie", not committing to finding him scummy. And the read never continues, it doesn't progress, it's never commented on, etc. | ||
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On October 12 2013 04:12 VayneAuthority wrote: You have a quote that says you don't know what to make of it. You have a quote that these three are the most likely to dispose of him. They either conflict OR you think those three are the most likely to dispose of him but don't actually know what to do with that thought.austin just refuses to stop lying all game, im lynching him first. And there's no attempt to go "these are the people most likely to dispose of him, which one is the MOST likely." If you come to a conclusion, your conclusion is "These are the people that might have wanted to kill BH and they're all scum." To me, that's a part of the progression of you thinking about the NK, but not the end. Throwing out the names without digging to see if you like one in particular, or think that these 2 might be on the same team because of x, and therefore BH was probably killed by that team, etc. etc. You pause at "here are some dudes." | ||
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He wants to see who killed BH. He looks, finds three people with townreads on BH, decides they're maybe the candidates but he's unsure. He never picks A DUDE who did it, he never goes "here's my list of maybe shooters, which one had the best reason/looks the absolute worst?" What he does if say these guys maybe, then poke at CR about night actions and how CR is wrong, tussle with WoS, call out hiro for defending himself from what WAS a weird attack, and then circle back around to voting grack and saying he'll vote pandain/palmar, because those 3 were most likely to kill BH. He goes from these three people maybe killed BH --> I will vote these three people because they maybe killed BH. Doesn't try to figure out WHICH, doesn't rule any one dude out, or anything. It's like going halfway with his speculation. Here's some people that might have committed the crime, I'll vote for any of them. The list of some people is nice, but you need THE GUY, or a reason to think grack (his vote) is the guy more than pandain/palmar (who he'll also vote for but isn't voting). Does this not make sense to anyone else? The list is never narrowed, and the list is suddenly all scum, will vote for all three. | ||
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On October 12 2013 05:00 WaveofShadow wrote: I just had a thought for a play I think scum may very well make tonight. Posting this right at deadline: If scum do indeed have 2KP they may not risk using the second (since VE is a sure kill) and instead hope for the mislynch today so they can use BOTH KP tomorrow night and win(?) (since likely everyone has used their vest who has one tonight). They may also attempt a fakeclaim of vest use if they only use the one shot. Be wary. Scum, I may or may not have used my vest tonight for the first time in preparation for such a scenario. GL with that! Drive-By - scum sacrifice 1 KP this night for 2 KP the following night. One of the 2 KP must be used to make a night-kill. Cannot be used on consecutive nights. If they used it 2 nights ago to get 2 KP tonight, they couldn't use it again tonight. | ||
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##vote: Mr. Cheesecake Is this day 24 or 48 hours long? | ||
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On October 12 2013 05:03 WaveofShadow wrote: Oh, so you're presuming there's like...a running tally of their KP? Not a drive-by, but a dusty old KP they kept in the attic and will pull out now?Except there has been no drive-by accounted for for a couple nights now. There is a KP missing, so they may have saved it up (or it was the Bangers who had it and Pandain died). | ||
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I assumed it would NOT, because if all KP rolls over then drive-by is useless. Essentially, drive-by allows you to bank KP but only in specific scenarios (every other day, and only 1 at a time). If you can bank ALL KP, there's no need for them to be able to drive-by. | ||
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VA, I think some of the stuff you did was scummy. I'd think it regardless of alignment. It's not lying, it's not being untruthful, I don't think you came to the final conclusion when analyzing the BH kill. You gave a list of 3 people, decided you'd vote for them ALL, without doing ANY analysis of why one might be more likely than the other, why one person gave a town read on BH but wasn't scum, etc. etc. Essentially, ANYONE WHO HAD A TOWNREAD ON BH D1 WAS SCUM FOR YOU, and that was it. No attempt to see if the rest of their filters did anything for you, no attempt to pick a likely killer, just BH died --> people townie on BH most likely killers --> here are people townie on BH --> I will vote for all of them. Actually, same question to you VA, apart from the payphone thing, Cheese is town because ____________ | ||
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On October 12 2013 07:24 VayneAuthority wrote: Between this post:he isn't town to me. You are just way scummier. And I just freakin' quoted where I delved into their filters and decided that I was sure of the read! it's posts like this where you are lying and it's annoying. I don't put my analysis in the thread because i dont give a shit about other people's opinions on it. its for me only. On September 30 2013 07:37 VayneAuthority wrote: and these posts:So I have no idea why anyone shot BH or what this means. The only people that trusted him even remotely were pandain, grack, and palmar. Everybody else tried to throw suspicion on him or said he was scummy. He died though so we know it wasn't a cop kill. Sooo wtf is going on here. Palmar/Pandain probably come off looking the worst from this since palmar gave him a town read and visa versa and pandain is trying to lynch FT through his dead body. Grack has some sort of boner for BH where he looks up to him so that is a potential fear kill. No need to reply to this post, I won't read it On October 01 2013 00:36 VayneAuthority wrote: ##vote:grackaroni On October 01 2013 00:43 VayneAuthority wrote: alternatively, i will vote for pandain or palmar On October 01 2013 00:46 VayneAuthority wrote: You DON'T comment at all. You don't discuss any of those three people between those two points.after reading all filters those are the 3 that were most likely to dispose of BH So if you "delved into their filters," it's not apparent from your posts. You say three people "trusted him." You say how they're related to BH. But you don't talk about their filters, you don't show you delved anything, and besides the implicit "BH is dead and someone who thought he was scummy wouldn't kill BH," you don't even explain WHY the people who had townreads on BH = all scum and BH's killers. | ||
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On October 12 2013 07:32 VayneAuthority wrote: no. not at all.its not apparent that I delved into their filters when I just typed that I read all of their filters? k I can type "I'm an elephant." It's not apparent that I'm an elephant. For it to be apparent that you actually looked at their filters, I'd expect quotes from their filters, or references to scummy posts they made, or ANY sort of specific reference. Instead, you comment on hiro/WoS and some other stuff, then say, "I delved their filters." You saying you did something doesn't make it apparent that you actually did it, when this is a game where people lie. | ||
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On October 12 2013 07:39 VayneAuthority wrote: If you don't want to put reasoning in thread, whatever.but you see that doesn't work when that is what I do, so you fail yet again, better luck next time. go play in the dumpster with cheesecake But don't say "I just don't do reasoning or justification, that's how I roll" and then say it's APPARENT that you looked at filters. Nobody outside of you has any idea whether you actually did or not. You can't claim it's apparent to us you did x or y when there are no indicia of you doing x or y. | ||
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On October 12 2013 08:13 WaveofShadow wrote: The latter!Austin you can go ahead and answer if you'd like. (To be fair, I've been lynched as mafia once and lynched as town once. In both cases I actively fought hard) But in general, town players getting lynched when the game is close to being on the line don't give up/go silent. Heck, town players who maybe or maybe don't out scum don't sit back and do nothing at all after that. | ||
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Lynched in CT as mafia. Lynched in looney lynching as town. In CT so many people were confirmed by actions or stuff, and I replaced in for a guy who took actions that didn't make sense. Fought only the day I was about to be lynched. | ||
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Strong enough that maybe shouldn't cost .5 KP if you can disable someone every night. | ||
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On October 12 2013 12:10 raynpelikoneet wrote: It's alright. I really hope obs thought I was townie, though. I think anyone who's played with me a decent number of times would not have suspected me for some of the stuff you were on my about. But I can understand some bits of the read in a vacuum.Well done guys by looking hella town. Sorry austin for going after you, i was paranoid because WoS & Vayne were so so town and i don't know your play well enough. Finally town wins something. ^_^ Stuff like me going a little nuts, not knowing who to believe, and wanting to lynch outside the cops when we have great odds and some reads (seriously, super pro town plan imo), is either not indicative of my alignment or townie. I haven't really done any weird stuff in thread as mafia. | ||
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Could have easily swung the other way if most of the checks had been killed early or precision shot hit a vested townie. | ||
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Jeez. Even SOLSTICE calling me frigging mafia? Also, CR, I'm actually really interested in why/how you claimed. Were you actually just giving up? Were you trying to save other team? Trying to look townie? | ||
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