Golden Sun: The Broken Seal Mini Mafia

On September 11 2013 06:43 WaveofShadow wrote:
Alright good it's full so I don't have to be tempted.
/replace

On September 11 2013 07:05 debears wrote:
/out

didnt expect this to fill so fast. Can't play right now being sick and all

On September 11 2013 06:34 Sn0_Man wrote:
Its OK you can be the scum troll and Kush can be the town troll and you can have troll wars instead!

On September 12 2013 07:20 strongandbig wrote:
papasmurf i see you volunteered to coach a newbie. that kind of implies that you have played before.

On September 12 2013 07:20 Papa_Smurf wrote:


Why did you say kenpachi SnB? Does he go by a new name now?

On September 12 2013 07:17 Papa_Smurf wrote:
and so it begins. No idea what golden sun is (Genesis of it and so forth). Looks pretty sweet though.

Anyways Hi guys. Is grack really a troll too normally?

On September 12 2013 07:18 strongandbig wrote:
yes.

koshi how

On September 12 2013 07:32 strongandbig wrote:

yeah
i think i thought that because you lurked your way to a scum victory in LI

but i checked got and you didnt troll there so consider troll accusation rescinded.

On September 12 2013 07:44 kushm4sta wrote:


ARE YOU SERIOUS?!?! How dare you include me with the spammers?!! I never spam. Who the fuck is this smurf coward? anyone know his real identity?

On September 12 2013 07:58 VayneAuthority wrote:
sup nerds, few concerns

why did blubbdavid come into the thread and say hi then peace completely? he was here yet had nothing to contribute to the game.

SnB is town, get votes off him. just played scum with him and this is obvious already

On September 12 2013 08:18 VayneAuthority wrote:
that's actually an interesting quote you just responded to SnB, I missed that.

@grackaroni why specifically were you concerned with what SnB thought of me? Sounds like trying to see if you should jump on the wagon too at some point.

On September 12 2013 08:37 strongandbig wrote:


lol regardless of what you think my alignment is do i really remind you of sicillian? if i do ive failed.



grack you haven't said anything about my response.

do you think strongly defending townreads early day1 like vayne has been doing is scummy in general?

On September 12 2013 09:18 strongandbig wrote:
Hmm interesting. How can you differentiate between him bullshitting and him having different information (recent games together) or having a different threshold for giving out townreads?

On September 12 2013 08:18 VayneAuthority wrote:
that's actually an interesting quote you just responded to SnB, I missed that.

@grackaroni why specifically were you concerned with what SnB thought of me? Sounds like trying to see if you should jump on the wagon too at some point.

On September 12 2013 09:43 goodkarma wrote:
EBWOP:

Do you mean to say that because you don't share a read that someone else has that makes them scum? For sure strong townreads early are a bit rare (at least for me), but have you looked at strong's playstyle before?

On September 12 2013 09:55 goodkarma wrote:


So just to be clear, you're saying that no one should ever have strong reads this early unless said person is scum?

On September 12 2013 11:47 WaveofShadow wrote:

Now onto the actual game. I'm fine with VA at the moment. The sheer fact that he is actually choosing to give some analysis and reads D1 is a nice change from most of the play in his usual games (aside from the fact that he's going to spew some bullshit about how he 'plays differently every game' or something). I want him around. SnB, I think this may be the most I've EVER seen you actively hunt/contribute out of ANY game we've played in together thus far. Not sure what to make of it, and the fact that you and Vayne seem to agree very quickly on each others' alignments to some degree is either really good or really worrying---which leads me to Grack. He seem to also find this somewhat worrying (on the Vayne side of things) but...


This reads to me of poking just to gauge reaction to see if it's safe to start a wagon. It looks like a scum Grack being very very careful about harboring suspicion and looking for SnB to 'lead' him in the right direction as to whether town will view his suspicion on Vayne as 'ok' or not. It could have also been a preliminary attempt to break up what could be a potential town circle starting, but that might be going a bit far.
For now,
##Vote: Grackaroni

On September 12 2013 09:52 strongandbig wrote:


Hmmm, I actually kind of agree with you in regards to that specific comment. Have to figure out how much weight to give that relative to my general impression of va atm.

On September 12 2013 11:48 WaveofShadow wrote:

It's becoming more and more clear to me that you didn't garner the reaction from thread that you wanted and you're trying to back off now.


In other news, Kush are you going to be lolkush this game, or Persona Kush?

On September 12 2013 13:24 Pandain wrote:
I'm sorry I'm not going to be able to fully make my thoughts fully comprehensible and eloquent, instead I will just get them written down. College struggles.

Alot of what I was going to say was already said by WoS Old Panther, however I have some comments to them.

VA seems town due to the fact he's actively moving the thread forward for a long time.
GK seems town(recognizing the one argument was silly and a distraction)


I agree with OP's catch on SnB reading up on Papasmurf coaching meaning that snb is probably town. Means he's already investigating outside and looking into matters, which maybe I'm wrong but I don't think is a mafia move.
Papa_Smurf, you asked others to not spam, but spam isn't just useless content, it's a bunch of small thoughts spread out across many posts. Consolidate your thoughts please for the sake of the thread.

Zealos seems town because if someone else was Isaac(who is very likely to be a character due to the fact he's the main party leader in the original GS, thanks Wikipedia!), then he would get counterclaimed. And Isaac isn't evil. I don't know if it's forbidden to reason like this, based on character names, but that's what I got.




Honestly not sure about OP's alignment. People who make posts like that are usually from my experience really really really good, and that means they can do anything. Main thing to keep out for is what OP actually does in the game, not what he just says.

I am getting a bad read on Grackaroni due to the fact he's being very moderate in his opinions, always saying "in my opinion, I feel", trying to defend himself rather than offer actual opinions, or he's just spamming. Not sure if Scum though.

Also to put it bluntly I'm going to lynch kushm4sta unless he stops posting like shit. Also he's being pretty crude(like crude troll), and I really don't appreciate it. He'll be useless to the thread basically, and with more posts I see while writing this he has ignored OP's plea to stop spamming, showing he won't listen.

I agree though that lurkers should be incredibly suspicious, there are five of them in Onegu, blubdavid,raynpelikoneet, Sn0_Man, and Zealos.

On September 12 2013 14:47 Papa_Smurf wrote:
I disagree with the SnB being town read just because he saw my smurf signed up as coach. If you call him town, call him town by his in game play

Like, as a player in the forum, its not like he was researching me and that's how he found me signed up as coach, it was a completely different circumstance.

And to say "oh you must be smurf because of that", when my name is papa smurf is no new knowledge

On September 12 2013 15:14 Papa_Smurf wrote:


No. You didnt read his post to see what he actually said (you misinterpreted it)

On September 12 2013 15:50 Papa_Smurf wrote:
He didn't call you and kush out as lynch targets for being bad (which was the primary point of your scumread on him).

When he said "bad read" about you it meant "scum read" pretty obviously by how he described your posting.

Then kush is playing scummy in itself (although that's normal for him as town and scum). "Posting like shit" doesn't mean bad (unless he has a town read on kush). It means he's playing anti-town

At least that's what I discerned.

On September 12 2013 14:03 Pandain wrote:
Ignore this post except for one key point I realized so we can stay on track of what matters: lurkers.

Zealos's post doesn't mean anything I think; I think he was referring to his name in the mythical realm known as real life. Wouldn't make sense otherwise.

Also kush I'll probably change from you, I was once the huge spammer too. I'll just ask you to step it up.

On September 12 2013 16:28 Koshi wrote:
I can wait a bit on the other Europeans to wake up.

SnB can be town obviously. But meh. Could lynch.
Pandain pretty bad entry.

OP pretty cool guy. Not going to lynch.

On September 12 2013 21:31 blubbdavid wrote:
Atm I have three scumreads:
Koshi, Grack and Kush

Koshi for aforementioned reasons.
Kush for his valuable contributions.
And Grack:

I disagree here with points 1,3,4,5
1. wut
3. have you already made out of thread investigation, Grack?
4. wut
5. you two should be lynched because of scum behaviour, not because you are bad


Defending your scum comrade much, leaving him to the vig, if there is one?

Hey scumrade, since you're here and in the scum QT anyway, why don't we press together against Pandain? Can you help me find more stuff so that it looks legit.

On September 13 2013 00:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:
How's Grack generating discussion? The way i see it is that he is the topic of discussion.

On September 12 2013 22:53 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Yes i disagree, here is Grackaroni's post:

Vayne's reasoning is right there. In the post Grack quoted. The question is worthless in the first place.
How can you not accept that someone can have strong reads early on in the first place? Instead of thinking this as a possibility Grack calls VA scum for having a strong read (when in fact VA just plays differently). There is nothing suspicious in Vayne having a read. Grack never calls out Vayne's reasoning, he calls out the read.

TLDR; He is saying "you can't have this read and therefore you are scum" until many people point out that's stupid. Then he covers it up by saying "oh, he just plays differently than i do". Like what? When you enter a game do you assume everyone has the same mindset you do?

On September 13 2013 00:22 raynpelikoneet wrote:

That's what i am saying about him. Thousand words that say nothing.
Also could you comment on what i asked you to elaborate on, and the other things i wrote about you?

On September 13 2013 00:27 raynpelikoneet wrote:

I am a bit lost here. Do you think Vayne is scummy or not, because that's not clear to me?

On September 13 2013 00:26 Sn0_Man wrote:
Is blubdavid new?

His other options being bad or heavily anti-town. Either way I'm hoping he can come up with something better than pre-flip association accusations based on his assumption that *kush* is scum.

Otherwise I'm having a hard time keeping who is who straight since there are all these dumb names like OP and PS and Grak and w/e.

On September 13 2013 00:48 raynpelikoneet wrote:

I agree with some points he brought up against you:

1. I agree with him. Pandain analyzed people and gave opinions.
2. I'm interested in hearing from both of you & Blubb about this:
2a) You: What you say is incorrect. Pandain did not give town reads that agreed with thread sentiment. Btw why do you use wording "town sentiment"?
2b) Blubb: Why did you not comment on this point at all? This is probably the strongest point in your case against Grack?
3. I don't understand Blubb and i agree with you, Pandain's reasoning for SnB being town is shit.
4. Actually there is a conclusion, it's "watch out for this guy", i agree with the concusion Pandain came to, because that's exactly how i felt when i read Old Partner's posts.
5. That's certainly not what Pandain said.
6. This is wrong because that was not the point in the first place. I dunno however why Pandain did not correct you, or why Blubb is not bringing this up in his case.

Other than what i said, Blubb's case is crap. Anything else is nothing alignment indicative and is a pre-flip association that's bad. Does not make either one of you scum though.

Could you elaborate on my point (2), as i assked you to earlier?

On September 13 2013 00:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Sno_man and Grack: Could you go through Pandain's & Old Partner's posts and tell me which one of those guys has shared more thoughts that contribute towards this game?

On September 13 2013 00:54 raynpelikoneet wrote:
EBWOP:

He seems like an over-zealous townie to me who is calling you & Koshi scum for wrong reasons.

On September 13 2013 01:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:

yeah yeah, could you just answer the questions, that was a part of it only.


This is the same thing i feel about Axlegreaser. Still, every time i read his posts multiple times and every time i can't understand anything he says. Trust me, this is way easier..

On September 13 2013 01:03 raynpelikoneet wrote:

The way he approaches the game. Aggressively and calling people out with weak reasons, not being afraid of drawing attention to himself. He's either town or very good scum. I think the former, do you know if he's good as scum?

On September 13 2013 01:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Oh sorry, i missed this post:

I don't think you are right.
His read on VA is not following the thread sentiment, for example you yourself think VA is not necessarily town, as do other people. His read on GK is not following the thread sentiment, most people thought GK was scummy because of that comment, i agree with Pandain. His reasoning for the read on SnB is shit as said earlier. His read on OP is golden imo. Everybody should vote for that guy. His read on you is not following the thread sentiment, i can understand why he thinks what he says about you, i do not agree with him though. I am not even gonna go to the kush read. Kush needs to be given time. He either starts playing, if he does not, we lynch/vig him. Discussing/pressuring him does nothing good. I can however understand his policy.

On September 13 2013 01:15 Grackaroni wrote:

His read on me was following thread sentiment, I believe Vayne and WoS both called me scummy before this. I could have been wrong about GK.

Could you respond to my biggest point in my post about Blubdavid about him not exhibiting a townie mindset. The quotes of me he posted didn't point towards me being scum. He decided in his head beforehand that he was going to call me scummy and then cherry picked quotes and inserted a scummy twist on them.

On September 13 2013 01:22 blubbdavid wrote:

I didn't comment on point 2 because I don't disagree with Grackaroni there. Pandain's townreads were mainstreamlined at that time. (or better: Pandain's townreads were similar to mine, so I had not too much reason to interfere)
Point 6: Tbh I don't know myself why I didn't comment on this one, yes Grack seems to be wrong in this case.


2/3 of my choice in lynchtargets weren't on the bandwagoning side, I chose you additionally because you tried to shoot down Paindain's big post pretty strongly.
And no, that what I did wasn't cherry picking. More like your post on Panda was cherrypicking.

On September 13 2013 01:29 VayneAuthority wrote:
and as I post that I really dislike that grack just jumped on my wagon, weak

On September 13 2013 01:32 VayneAuthority wrote:
posting about it and actually voting for it are miles apart my friend

On September 13 2013 02:29 raynpelikoneet wrote:
wtf is this Pandain -- Grackaroni stuff. Why is everyone misreading his post?

On September 13 2013 02:43 blubbdavid wrote:
Oh, we thought the same thing.
well, happy bd btw

On September 13 2013 02:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:

This is bad and wrong. We lynch people who are not willing to help town. Getting rid of distractions sooner is better than thinking if we can get rid of them anymore later on.

On September 13 2013 11:25 Papa_Smurf wrote:


huh? where do you see this?

On September 13 2013 12:17 Old Partner wrote:
@Grackaroni #642 I am aware that the initial post I made today was poorly formatted. It took me much longer to read the thread than I expected, and I posted it without previewing it. It got fucked my notepad's Word Wrap function. I reposted it along with my scumreads, who I'm willing to lynch, and statements/questions clearly outside the spoiler.

You say I should be "engaging with the thread" and that's true, but right now the thread is basically just me. People have effectively bailed since I have posted my summary and questions. That being said, I will talk with you, since you are here. Is this still your position on Kush?



What happens if Kush is alive tomorrow because town has no vigis? Would you policy lynch him D2? You dont' think he's going to start playing, you think he's unreadable, and so you want to him to get vigged. We dont' know if there is a vig. If it turns out there isn't, then you MUST be onboard for a D2 kush policy lynch. Why not just lynch him today?

On September 13 2013 12:40 WaveofShadow wrote:
Sorry ladies. Busier than I thought today. I'll be able to post for a bit tonight and a few hours tomorrow pre-deadline before my aforementioned afk period.

If yall want to get all salty about my contributions by all means go ahead. I'm not going to be defending myself. Anyway finishing catching up---I remember thinking my Grack scumread is still justified but I have to recheck why.

On September 13 2013 12:45 WaveofShadow wrote:
Something along the lines of 'jumping on opportune targets basically all game,' I think.
I'll see if I have time to post another decent case or a rebuttal towards yours of mine earlier today (which I seem to remember thinking was pretty decent, actually), but I don't see any reason to move my vote anywhere atm.

On September 13 2013 12:50 Old Partner wrote:


So you're basically saying that you expect Kush is gonna become readable. If he doesn't, (and he may not), and we don't have a vigi, then you MUST be planning to policy lynch him D2... which is terrible.

On September 13 2013 12:52 Old Partner wrote:


Imagine a scenarion in which Grack is scum: You expressed "concern" about BD, then when town opinion shifted onto him, you had an excuse to vote. If town opinion hadn't shifted, your concern would be forgotten. This is a common scum tactic. And your attack on me has no new information in it, you're just parroting Rayn, which is very different than coming up with ideas. Sure, maybe you attacked pandain first, but you have been opportunistically sheeping ever since.

On September 13 2013 13:34 WaveofShadow wrote:

Ah ok, I forgot my original point when I was reading this apparently. This post does not in any way debunk my case on you.
If you'll notice my case on you was based on you looking like scum testing out his 'feelers' to see where the best place to direct his scummy actions in the thread was. You say that my point doesn't work because at that point SnB agreed with you and you would totally jump on Vayne and everything would be according to plan bwahahaha

Except that's not true at all. As scum one of the most important things to do is to sow mistrust amongst the members of town whilst blending in. Tell me that's not exactly what you're doing here. You just want to make sure Vayne and SnB don't get 'too close' to each other, while not wanting to go further and toss a vote or put pressure on him yourself beyond the discussion with SnB. Blending in.

Now let's go have a re-look see at why I think I found more of your posting scummy despite what you've said here.

On September 13 2013 14:07 WaveofShadow wrote:

Both of those are perfectly viable scum responses to being attacked in thread. Why does this mean you give him town points? Just because he appeased you and started to agree with your earlier scumread?

On September 13 2013 14:18 WaveofShadow wrote:

Can you show me in your earlier posts where you outline the thought process you just explained to me here?
Also would you not say I am doing the same thing as bolded above?

On September 13 2013 00:17 Grackaroni wrote:

There is so much wrong with this post.
Firstly I'm suspicious of people who come in and say that Kush has one of the best chances to flip mafia when not everybody has even posted.(I could have a scum read on kush through process of elimination) If town he is the go to mislynch for mafia and I think that mafia are more-likely to push on somebody like kush. Other players have suggested to policy lynch him (also scummy imo, especially if you have no other scum read), but saying he is likely mafia is even scummier to me.

In response to Blubbdavid's case:
You think I'm wrong, great, Both townies and mafia can be wrong.
Vigging kush is the correct play(unless he starts playing the game), its not even a discussion.
Why wouldn't I want other peoples opinions on my case if I'm town? How am I supposed to get reads otherwise?

He is throwing shit on me only because I have already had shit thrown against me from other players. This post in particular isn't analyzing both possibilities of me being mafia or town, (I could be town and want other players opinion, lots of people in other games have said the same thing I said about kush without being on a scumteam with him) I think Blubbdavid decided beforehand. I'm going to put a scumread on Grack, and then searched through my filter for things he could twist into me being scum.

On September 13 2013 01:15 Grackaroni wrote:

His read on me was following thread sentiment, I believe Vayne and WoS both called me scummy before this. I could have been wrong about GK.

Could you respond to my biggest point in my post about Blubdavid about him not exhibiting a townie mindset. The quotes of me he posted didn't point towards me being scum. He decided in his head beforehand that he was going to call me scummy and then cherry picked quotes and inserted a scummy twist on them.

On September 13 2013 14:22 WaveofShadow wrote:
You said I'm not readong your posts and then explained to me about your read on blubbdavid and why you moved off of him, which is apparently supposed to mean you must have done so in your earlier posts but I did not read them.l Can you show me where in your posts from earlier that you did this?

My second point is that you accused Blubbdavid of being scummy based on what I bolded, yet you haven't called me scummy for what essentially might amount to the same thing. Why?

On September 13 2013 14:26 WaveofShadow wrote:
Alright you're clearly not following me here.
I'm asking you to show me the posts in your filter where you rescind your scumread on blubbdavid and the explanation behind it I apparently should have already found in your filter.

On September 13 2013 14:29 Grackaroni wrote:

I already told you at the start of our conversation that I never actually wrote it out. You bolded what you wanted me to show you and that's what I showed you....

On September 13 2013 14:31 WaveofShadow wrote:
Ok I think I get you here.
The point remains, why did you not post your reasons for moving off of Blub before?
And the fact remains that until you JUST explained yourself somewhat, I didn't see any other reason for you removing your scumread.

Now can you answer my other question regarding a comparison between what you originally found scummy about Blub's play and mine?

On September 14 2013 02:49 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Grackaroni did you even look at the post where i expose SnB as straight out lying?

On September 14 2013 02:56 blubbdavid wrote:
So now that I change my vote, zealos and OP become legit targets again? Goddamn I have bad luck.

After all that time is this the only defense you can muster up? And the least active player at that time was Onegu/Oats.

On September 14 2013 03:17 VayneAuthority wrote:
I read it dude, it doesn't mean shit to me really. I could see town doing the same exact thing. In fact I could see town doing that even more. Who's more likely to double and triple check their posts, town or scum?

On September 14 2013 06:45 Pandain wrote:


Yeah no I thought I excluded you. You gave reasons before on suspicion, but I meant that prior you seem from your posts that it's either SnB or bubbles who you're looking at, then 7 hours later you vote OP.

Sorry if that's not clear, not saying your mafia just an overall strangeness which you didn't explain.

On September 14 2013 07:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Vigilante on this SCUM asap!

On September 14 2013 07:43 Old Partner wrote:


Immediate thoughts are that shenannies could tell us something. Grack swapped away from me at the last minute, maybe to avoid getting bad cred for lynching a townie. He was probably scum starting a wagon and hoping it wouldn't roll across the line, then jumped overboard. I'm also still suspicious of kush (especially that he believed me so easily-- what does he know that rayn doesn't), along with his "scumslip". that being said, I dont' think we should policy lynch kush. He IS readable. I was lying.

On September 14 2013 07:43 Old Partner wrote:


Immediate thoughts are that shenannies could tell us something. Grack swapped away from me at the last minute, maybe to avoid getting bad cred for lynching a townie. He was probably scum starting a wagon and hoping it wouldn't roll across the line, then jumped overboard. I'm also still suspicious of kush (especially that he believed me so easily-- what does he know that rayn doesn't), along with his "scumslip". that being said, I dont' think we should policy lynch kush. He IS readable. I was lying.

On September 14 2013 07:55 Old Partner wrote:


"BH is scum because he thinks I am scum. i will OMGUS him and pretend this is an okay argument"

On September 14 2013 08:14 Papa_Smurf wrote:
Lol BH I love you <3

Some things off the top of my head: Raynp's and Koshi's dropping of SnB is off(especially gotta look at raynp, that little bugger). I wouldn't think both are scum . Seemed like the thread presence of vayne and grack fell off (not sure but had town reads on them double checking that shit).

And guess I'll just wait til rigghhhhhtttt about dawn for anything super insightful. Haven't really decided if I'll post right before or quite a bit before

On September 14 2013 08:34 Papa_Smurf wrote:
well that was a disaster

On September 14 2013 09:43 Koshi wrote:
Question to all:

Did you know that you could post your role PM?

Please answer!

Thank you!

On September 14 2013 09:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Look at how Pandain avoids my questions and pushes his own instead. Look at how he disappears when i ask him about Oats and ask him to answer my former questions (which were asked ~2h ago in the first place). Note that, keep an eye on him. Seems like he has something to hide.

On September 14 2013 10:40 kushm4sta wrote:
im a little confused OP why did you feel the need to claim? nothing is scummy about voting a town read to save yourself.

On September 14 2013 11:16 Old Partner wrote:


To break it down again: I had claimed that I wasn't available ever for the lynch deadline due to work and not having a smartphone. however, showing up to save myself would have proved that I was available. At this point I basically have to claim that i'm blazinghand right. But then people see "oh wtf this kid is blazinghand" so i basically had to lay out my whole gameplan

On September 14 2013 11:29 Umasi wrote:
claiming a non-town role is generally a bad idea to start the game.
reminds me of someone in a newbie game asking if claiming traitor was smart :|

On September 14 2013 11:52 Old Partner wrote:

no that's not

On September 14 2013 12:15 strongandbig wrote:

It's a proven successful scum tactic.

On September 14 2013 13:28 Oatsmaster wrote:

for what?

Ok umasi is scum for voting for OP then calling me scum.
Grack is scum for not staying on OP for no particular reason. I didnt see anything that made him change his mind.
I explained WoS already.

Im gonna be here for like 10 minutes then gone for like 8 hours.
I aint got time for making 'big posts'. Big posts are not how blubb got lynched.

On September 14 2013 13:59 VayneAuthority wrote:
hey im here for a bit to discuss anything if anyone wants to, otherwise heading to bed.

to pandain's last point, we can always lynch OP to buy us time for a day if we ever unsure at some point. We always have that as a back option due to his claim.

On September 14 2013 14:24 Old Partner wrote:
I need to sit down again with SnB filter and take a look at people who moved onto Zealos near the end there (besides myself) to see what kind of motivations that could have. I think the fact that the entire SnB wagon was abandoned by day end, and blubbdavid got lynched with 5 votes in a game of 15 is a sign of mafia involved in the shenannies. town shenannies are usually more organized in my experience, even though they're frantic.

On September 14 2013 14:53 VayneAuthority wrote:


I don't feel the need to repeat myself, if I see anything worthy of deep analysis then ill post it. You asked for scumreads and I gave an overview of what i've seen from day 1. It's not so much outdated as getting badgered to re-iterate what I have already said.

If you actually thought this was all shitty then you would have said something before now I presume.

On September 14 2013 06:31 Pandain wrote:
SnB, I beg you to vote Kush. Zelos isn't going to be lynched, and you see I agree with you he's scummy. He's not going to be lynched however.

Rayn I ask that you see what I'm saying, or at least trust in me if you believe I'm town. I promise you OP is town.

Papa_Smurf and OP are town or are behaving like town. OP is town mainly for the bandwagon that just occured, also note that he's afk even now which shows that he really can't contribute as of now.

Zealos if you're town I ask you to vote Kush.

Also you guys are talking about mostly useless shit that doesn't matter now, focus on the matter at hand.

On September 14 2013 06:32 Pandain wrote:

The reason I favor Kush instead of blubb is that we can more safely lynch blubb later, or rule him out later due to rolechecks and flips and then analyze there.

With Kush, we have no such occurence as he is not going to be contributing more. In prior games he has contributed more as town, actually pro-actively scum hunting. This game he indicates he doesn't know what's going on, and I don't trust him to make himself easily identifiable. He will be a distraction later on to the town.

On September 14 2013 06:54 Pandain wrote:
You can't get zealos, there's 2 votes on him now? Rayn won't do it, WILL YOU RAYN?

You guys, honestly right now, won't vote Kush? Tell me now

On September 14 2013 06:53 Pandain wrote:
I am more inclined to have someone vig Zealous instead.

On September 14 2013 06:55 Pandain wrote:
I don't know there's a chance Zealos is blue.
There's too much I don't know. I haven't looked at his prior games either really.

On September 14 2013 06:27 Pandain wrote:
Hi everyone, clear your heads for a moment.

Old Person is clearly not mafia.

There is no strong push against him except really by me, joined by Papa_Smurf. Rayn has also attempted to get SnB lynched.

Blub was a lynch no one actively pushed but rather occurred over time.

Umasi, Grack, and Wave gave random votes.
Grack never explained, and Wave and Umasi's filters go against what they said before. Umasi said OP was cool with him(and OP didn't post after Umasi). Wave never even really mentioned OP.

THESE VOTES DONT MAKE SENSE AND THEY ARE STRANGE

Also Rayn is important to point out in how he stopped actively trying to get SnB lynched, and didn't even go to blub despite originally him being between those two. Never explained why. At time he voted, SnB and Blub both could've/probably would've been lynched.

As a whole these votes don't make sense .

It doesn't mean they're mafia, but it means it doesn't make sense .



Also note how everyone has already voted. And everyone is on one of the three lynches, except for SnB/Zelous who are voting each other. I would encourage you guys to both vote kush.


Old Person has been suddenly bandwagoned by people who voted him despite no evidence they had suspicions of him. Then they left. Not all of these are mafia, but some of them certainly might be. The bandwagon on OP is so strange and indicates he is town . Mafia would not have let him die and would've softly defended him earlier against suspicions/pushed him aside .

Furthermore, even ignoring all the above, OP has shown he has and will contribute, and indicates that he will contribute more later on.

On September 14 2013 21:06 strongandbig wrote:


The latter.

I never try to assemble a "coherent scum team" in my reads. It's a distraction, you need to find s

I don't think it's likely bh is scum. But there are things that make me doubt his story somewhat.

On September 15 2013 00:07 Oatsmaster wrote:

So therefore Zealos is scum, Vayne is scum, Pandain is scum.

Uhuh.
Nope.

On September 15 2013 00:11 Oatsmaster wrote:
Nice extremely useless Post Grack. EXTREMELY.

On September 15 2013 00:18 Oatsmaster wrote:

*sigh* look at this extremely constructed post.

On September 15 2013 00:30 Oatsmaster wrote:

Well, BH and Rayn arent even gonna die. So that post was useless. Scum Post useless shit.
You scum.

Umasi did nothing. Was really easy for him to vote for OP with 0 reasoning. He then called me scum even though he sheeped me for like no reason. Therefore useless/stupid scumreads = to the dude being scum.

On September 15 2013 00:46 Koshi wrote:
Grack do you like my scumteam?

On September 15 2013 00:50 Oatsmaster wrote:

It was excellent. BH was playing anti townish. I was the second person to talk about OP and I arguably caused him to be almost lynched. See.

OP's post were way more bullshit than Pandain.
Also Pandain's vote switch is only scummy if Zealos is scum. Which I dont think so.

On September 15 2013 00:54 Oatsmaster wrote:

yeah cause Zealos is town. Like look at his first 5 posts. So town. Like useless people are town. Uh. Yeah cause he would post at least 1 long post in that part if he was scum.

On September 15 2013 00:58 Oatsmaster wrote:

uh. Yeah.
Ok.

On September 15 2013 01:01 Oatsmaster wrote:

Lol so why were there only 2 votes on OP for like more than 12 hours?
Dat Ego.

On September 15 2013 01:06 Oatsmaster wrote:

So thats your problem.
Ok. Right.
Pandain did a lot of shit other than the vote switch but thats the only thing you are thinking about?

On September 15 2013 01:08 Oatsmaster wrote:

So me as scum decides to start up a dead vote because why? Also why did you unvote?

On September 15 2013 01:15 Oatsmaster wrote:

Pandain did his policy lynch shit kush after I went and slept.
Im not suspicious of Pandain now because of his actions around the lynch. He was the dude most influential around the lynch, most active. Hes town.

On September 15 2013 01:19 Oatsmaster wrote:

yeah and?
Look, OP's posts are way different from Pandain. And you arent admitting that. And its really weird.

On September 15 2013 01:15 Koshi wrote:
btw, arguing with Oats is terrible.

On September 15 2013 01:34 Oatsmaster wrote:

well there were other reasons, main one is that OP was being purposely obtuse. and also he didnt do anything else, and his posts were long.
Thats why I thought he was scum.
How many times do I have to say that I think Zealos is town? that makes pandain's switch not scummy.

What the fuck Grack.

On September 15 2013 01:40 Oatsmaster wrote:

You do subscribe to the notion that useless=scum
Which I dont agree with. And which is never ever true.

On September 15 2013 02:26 Oatsmaster wrote:

lol. This attitude. So scum.

On September 15 2013 02:33 Oatsmaster wrote:

but you're wrong or scum.

On September 15 2013 03:20 Papa_Smurf wrote:


I was thinking zealos as of now. Pandain is certainly possible, but I had him as my strongest town read until Grack pointed his vote out. I have to reexamine him

On September 15 2013 03:22 Oatsmaster wrote:

Im confused why you didnt notice the vote before Grack pointed it out.

On September 15 2013 03:27 Zealos wrote:

I guess I can be suspicion free of Pan.
Kill SnB tomorrow.

On September 15 2013 04:46 Old Partner wrote:
If I was SK i'd just claim SK, or even better, claim vigi (link) then later claim SK and nobody would lynch me. I could even direct my shots how you guys wanted and you wouldn't want to lynch me.

On September 15 2013 04:59 Old Partner wrote:
also i'm literally not the SK, or else i'd just claim Vigi. I'd say something like "I voted to save myself because I am the vigi and am valuable to town" and you suckers would eat that up like candy

On September 15 2013 04:59 Old Partner wrote:
also i'm literally not the SK, or else i'd just claim Vigi. I'd say something like "I voted to save myself because I am the vigi and am valuable to town" and you suckers would eat that up like candy

On September 15 2013 05:03 Old Partner wrote:


i just claim Blazinghand, no problem. man you slow

On September 15 2013 05:20 Koshi wrote:
Ohyeah. You are right.

Tell me. Which 3 targets are most likely to be docced this night?

On September 15 2013 05:27 Koshi wrote:
I am just interested. No answer?

On September 15 2013 05:59 Pandain wrote:
The talking about whether OP is SK or Survivor is useless and doesn't affect us. There's no way to definitely tell the difference as they're both third party and have the same motives (survive at all costs), as well as help get rid of people who threaten them.

I don't think there's much use in the speculation, I agree with vayne's analysis of leave him as a back-up lynch in case we're uncertain on who to lynch.
As for me
Furthermore anyone who thinks I'm scum ignores the fact that I have been suspicious of Zealos before and even posted this here.
Also quote of mine:


I was like the first one(I think, or at least significant one) to actually analyze Zealos and point out suspicious behaviors besides just generic "being useless." I had switched to Zealos(why even encourage that bandwagon in the first place if I never wanted him to be lynched, it easily could have gone out of my control if I was scum.)



In fact, I hadn't realized OP had voted, and thought that he was going to be lynched instead of zealous. I would rather have had blubbers lynched instead of OP which is why I changed my vote. I don't know how I would have voted between blubbers and zealous.

Furthermore you assume Zealos is scum which isn't certain. Even if he is, it wouldn't mean I would be scum. As I mentioned before, I had thought it was between OP and Blubbers and made sure my vote counted and chose blubbers.

On September 15 2013 06:28 Pandain wrote:


When did I say Zealos was a better lynch than Blub?

On September 15 2013 06:47 Old Partner wrote:
PS since there is a non-zero chance you got shot could you indicate which NKs tonight would indicate town shouldn't lynch me kkthxbai

On September 15 2013 07:04 Pandain wrote:
That's a survivor role right?

Probably means OP is scum, then.

On September 15 2013 07:43 Koshi wrote:

1%

2 survivors could be but then there is no SK

And I tell you this:

WoS was not killed by scummers. Unless some sick bluehunting was going on.

On September 15 2013 08:10 Old Partner wrote:
:| if I was the SK I'd have claimied vigi. I guess I'd have shot WoS BUT THATS NOT THE POINT

On September 15 2013 10:18 strongandbig wrote:
I got roleblocked. And am at dinner with my girlfriend so will not be posting any more tonight.

On September 15 2013 13:32 Pandain wrote:
Also Oats what happened to this?





Why have you changed despite him becoming more suspicious?

On September 15 2013 08:04 Koshi wrote:

Nope. You would feel stupid if you don't lynch BH and he ends up being scum.
Then you can feel stupid.

On September 16 2013 02:14 kushm4sta wrote:
@GRACK what is your last scumgame please

On September 15 2013 07:27 Grackaroni wrote:
Actually with only 1 death, S&B's awesome crumb must have been wrong. BH is SQUM

On September 16 2013 08:00 Old Partner wrote:
grack PS/DB scumteam anyone?

##vote Papa_Smurf

On September 16 2013 08:11 Koshi wrote:
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Are you really claiming veteran?

Fuck this game.

On September 16 2013 08:18 Koshi wrote:
woopiefuckingdoo you got a townread on PS.

better claim veteran!!!!!

On September 16 2013 08:19 Koshi wrote:
Btw.

Please paste your entire role pm.


Thank you!

On September 16 2013 08:20 Koshi wrote:

He wasn't going to get lynched. Unless OP would do something spectacular I was always going back to him.

FFS

On September 16 2013 08:22 Koshi wrote:

Because I want to have reads on all the scummers. After OP, PS is second.

On September 16 2013 08:23 Koshi wrote:

POST THE ENTIRE ROLE PM = THX

What is the point not doing so?


ARE YOU FUCKING SCUM?

On September 16 2013 08:35 Koshi wrote:
You can't post the time of the role pm ffs. Jeezus.

On September 16 2013 08:41 Koshi wrote:

Are you trying to convince me you are scum?

On August 16 2013 11:03 Grackaroni wrote:

Who cares about roles/powers
No, I don't think Xatalos would give me lord.

The first part of my post doesn't concern you at all? Why focus on rolefishing?

On September 16 2013 12:49 Pandain wrote:
What is VT?
How did you come up with a fake claim?
Why did you now say you fake claimed?

None of this is scum to me but just confusing.

On September 16 2013 12:53 Umasi wrote:
VT=Vanilla Townie=Powerless
why did you post that, grack? what did you hope to achieve by posting that?

On September 16 2013 13:21 Old Partner wrote:
Like, with 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch, which means even if I unite everyone not-voting-for-me onto a glorious PS/DB wagon, I need to pick off one of the people voting for me presently. Just sort of sounding out my options here

On September 16 2013 13:29 Old Partner wrote:
And of course whining about it doesn't help me, since people voting me on policy would need to be seriously convinced about PS/DB to unvote, and QQ isn't gonna do that. Bleagh. I guess I should see if I could convince you grack.

tell me about your PS/DB read. and your reason for voting me.

On September 16 2013 13:39 Old Partner wrote:


You say debears has been pro-town all game long. Are you referring to his activity levels, his choice of target, his ability / willingness to convince other players, how he's affected town atmosphere, what reads he has had, or some other metric?

If I were SK, I would have claimed Vigilante. It's really that simple. Hell, if I were SK, I would claim SK and use my shots for the "good of the town" and try to get into a kingmaker scenario. I sure wouldn't claim survivor.

Your statement about the previous setups of 15-player games on TL is true, but I have been in many closed set games that were first-of-their-kinds on TL. It's not a strong argument for my survivorhood, but you can't OUTRIGHT dismiss the possibility.