Desert Mini Mafia

On August 29 2013 09:43 sciberbia wrote:
@rayn
Since you are very intent on understanding why I don't like your opening posts of the game, I will explain. The biggest problem is that the responses it generates are very similar from either alignment.

sensible town response: wtf are you doing rayn? explain yourself.
sensible scum response: wtf are you doing rayn? explain yourself.

on TK
For example, I'm having a hard time deciding whether TK's response was scum or town motivated. I can easily see scum motivation in trying to justify some wagon on rayn (assuming rayn is town), especially after sheeping onto yamato's policy wagon.

However, I very much like his response to my prodding. The fact that he deemed his questions to rayn a waste of time and decided to ignore rayn indicates a more townie thought process. Also the fact that he spontaneously changed direction over the course of three minutes is a point in his favor.

I guess I'm back to nullish on TK.

On August 29 2013 15:58 FirmTofu wrote:
13 idiots walk into a bar.

Story of Idiot #1:
+ Show Spoiler +

To be continued...

On August 29 2013 13:19 debears wrote:
#vote scibs

his game reminds me of his scum game.

I see a divide btw him and rayn. I definitely dony see both as scum.

this smurf tonka stuff seems to be overreaction, but ill let if go yo see who it truly be. Ill look over scribs posts better later tonight when not drunk

<3 hopeless

On August 29 2013 14:57 Sylencia wrote:


Seems like a bit of a premature read considering he was only around for the first hour of gameplay - and reading the first few pages shows pretty much nothing, just people who are playing around since there's literally nothing to go off during the first few hours.

On August 29 2013 19:12 Oatsmaster wrote:
debears was apparently drunk hapa, does that help in understanding his posts? Cause I totally dont get debears 2nd post that you quoted.

On August 29 2013 19:49 Hapahauli wrote:
Oh @ Onegu

You have two posts commenting on reads so far, but you haven't given any concrete opinions. You've criticized several statements/posts so far but haven't offered anything of your own. Do you have any strong reads any which way right now?

On August 29 2013 22:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:
marv, read FT's filter from Titanic and GoT and look at his general attitude towards me from the start of the game.

On August 29 2013 23:20 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Why did he do that in the same manner in Titanic then?

On August 29 2013 23:38 raynpelikoneet wrote:

That makes no sense because FT never held me responsible for his lynch in GoT. Or, of course he did so AFTER the game when he found out i was scum, but it was iamp who was pushing FT lynch, not me.

Titanic happened before GoT, that's why you should look at it, because that's.. you know, important.

On August 29 2013 23:43 raynpelikoneet wrote:

After you have done that, could you tell the thread what do you think about FT's general attitude towards me in Titanic (i was afk for the first 24h so you might start at somewhere around p3 in his filter), Nuclear Winter mafia, GoT, and compare it to this game. Thanks.

On August 30 2013 01:58 Hopeless1der wrote:

Welp theres my case falling apart guys. He got me. I'll go die of dehydration now.

On August 30 2013 01:49 yamato77 wrote:
I'm really only interested in figuring out the alignments of Marv and Hapa, because if they are town they will figure the rest of you out and we'll win the game. If they are scum we lynch them and the game becomes far easier to figure out. So forgive me for ignoring everyone else, my posts will be focused on them.

First of all, the way Marv entered the thread earlier today acting superior is a "holier than thou" attitude that I would not expect from town Marv towards two players he has played with so much in the past (Oats and myself). Mind you, his interactions with us basically served no purpose other than to establish his early activity, discredit my early vote, and to shit up the thread with Oats. He doesn't think either of us are mafia. Plenty of mafia motivation in his actions there. Since then, of course, he's been pro-town, but I know he's more than capable of that for at least a few hours.

What is even more perplexing to me is that Hapa, when questioned about the alignment of Marv, specifically said that this did not look like a "holier-than-thou" scum-Marv. If Hapa was town and Marv scum, he may be the only one well-versed enough in the wiles of mafia Marvellosity to truly push his lynch, but this shows that he's either not reading Marv very closely or has pre-decided what he thinks of Marv with some information from out of the thread. Either way, this is what a mafia Hapa would be like regarding Marv as either alignment. I may yet be wrong and this could be attributable to Hapa being up late and tired from all the awesome DotA we played, but it's something to note.

Aside from those interactions, I've yet to be particularly impressed by the scumhunting efforts of either player, but it is still in the first half of D1 and there is time yet to do better. Hapa going after debears was not what I usually see out of him as town.

If anyone wants to talk about the alignment of these two, feel free to respond. I will be on thread later.

On August 30 2013 05:34 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Onegu



Can you explain your heavy-town read on Yamato? What do you mean by "zero posts like this?"

You seemed to have the opposite reaction to that post compared to most other people in the thread.

Also, you seem to be suspicious of marv - can you give more concrete/clear reasons?

On August 30 2013 02:58 debears wrote:
There are a few things I am not liking about my #3 suspect, Onegu

First off, has anyone here played with him and give me some insight on his skill level?

This post was scum city when i looked at it

What did he accomplish in that post? He touched on a few things that weren't the main happening in the thread at that point.
The main thing going on at that point was the raynp and scribs wrastling going on. Also, he didn't follow up and truly commit to anything in his following posts.

He has one scumread: me. For what exactly, I'm not sure. His focus has been commenting on random things.

Then, he says this in response to yamatos stuff about marv and hapa.



That's odd, because he hasn't shared any info with us on his judgement on both.

On August 30 2013 14:47 Hapahauli wrote:
Are you all caught up Onegu? What do you make of the recent cases on Syl and Hopeless?

What do you make of the interaction between myself/marv/yamato a couple of pages before?

On August 30 2013 09:24 sciberbia wrote:


Sure I'd be glad to. I agree mostly with what you have written about him, but have a couple things to add/emphasize.

---

1) Hopeless's defense of his vote on TK sounds too much to me like a justification of himself and not enough like an argument why TK is scum.

+ Show Spoiler [hopeless] +

Hopeless has stuck to his "strong scumread" on TK but it doesn't seem to bother him too much that people like hapa/marv/myself are now quite sympathetic towards TK. I feel like from a townie there should be saying something like "Guys this is why he's scum. Why can't you see it? God this is so frustrating. Nobody believes me." I don't see any of this attitude in his filter.

Instead his tone comes off more as "it's ok with me if you guys interpret TK's actions as town, but please accept my scummy interpretation as valid too so my vote looks justified".

Basically I just do not feel like he is really trying to convince people that TK is scum, and one of the biggest defining traits of townies is that they fight tooth and nail to convince other townies of their best scum reads. Look at yamato and debears for contrast. I'm not saying they're necessarily town, but they don't take kindly to being disagreed with about their top scum reads.

---

2) Subtle contradiction / shift in emphasis
At the beginning of the game, hopeless seems to be trying to make TK's first vote look bad:
+ Show Spoiler [hopeless] +

Hopeless doesn't outright say it, but he went out of his way to mention how TK's vote was a "sheep on some uknown policy" rather than a "troll vote" and then he says the vote post wasn't "completely damning" which implies it is still somewhat damning.

But recently he says he had no problem at all with the initial troll vote from TK and that his read on TK was a total null following that vote. It doesn't really match up for me, and this is the type of subtle shift that I believe is a fairly reliable scumtell.

---

3) More minor point, but overall hopeless's lack of activity, lack of initiative in talking about anyone other than TK, and lack of any townie sparks that i can discern make me feel more comfortable in voting him.

##Vote Hopeless1der

On August 30 2013 15:31 Tutankoopa wrote:


I could write up a bunch of stuff about town reads, but do you want to hear that? I've been talking about and to hopeless since the 2nd hour of the game. I have voiced suspicions on other people but they have been varying degrees of AFK.

My reads match yours except for one or two differences. (Same for marv's reads I believe, I haven't read his filter lately.)

You probably don't need me to tell you my town reads, you should know that from reading my filter. Right now I am working with the idea that all the mafia are in the following group.

*Sylencia
-Oatsmaster
FirmTofu
-Onegu
**debears
--Hopeless1der
***marvellosity

* means that I think they're probably town but I need to see their play past D1 to come to a conclusion
- means I think they have at least a decent chance of flipping red

Hopeless is pretty scummy and the reasons why are public knowledge. When I read Onegu I don't see what he's doing, I don't see the purpose in his play. I asked him a question that hasn't been followed up on. An Oat's lynch is a coinflip and it will remain one until he returns to the thread. He had a weird start with his push on myself, and right as he was picking up steam he left the thread.

On August 30 2013 00:37 Tutankoopa wrote:


1. He's been acting weird about the policy lynch on rayn, attacking me as if he seriously thought that I was dead set on lynching yamato in my first post of the game.
2. Calls rayn's play stupid afterwards.

Calling somebody's play "stupid" while not expressing a scum read on them implies you having a town, or at least not scum read on them. It seemed fake, as if the whole time he's had extra information, and he knows rayn is town and is subconsciously using that to justify his case on people who accuse rayn.



Yes I had read his filter and I changed my mind on a reread. Editing takes effort.

I've read everything else in the thread but I don't have anything to say about any of it.

On August 30 2013 15:55 sciberbia wrote:


Hm I really have no idea about the relative 'veteran status' levels of debears, yamato, and Hopeless1der and would have assumed they were similar but maybe I was wrong.

Your anecodote does make me feel more sympathetic. Grrr... Yea not sure. I'm sure I'll spend plenty of time thinking about hopeless tmrw and don't feel like doing any more now.

I'm signing out for now. G'night guys.

On August 30 2013 16:02 Tutankoopa wrote:
Onegu, my biggest problem with your filter is the lack of questioning other players, especially scum reads. You don't exactly move the conversation forwards when you post. You recently said you think Hopeless has a good chance of flipping mafia. Are you going to try and lynch him going forwards?

I don't know, I guess I'm waiting for you to bring something productive AND original to the thread.

On August 30 2013 08:07 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Onegu plays way WAY, LIKE WAYYY better as scum than he does as town.

Am i the only one in this game that thinks Hopeless is town?

On August 30 2013 16:42 Tutankoopa wrote:
He should be lynched instead of anyone else? How many hrs will you be away?

On August 30 2013 03:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:
debears you are right about what you said.

Also i have a question to you:
Have you actually read the whole thread? I mean, sciberbia's attitude towards me and Onegu's town-meta have been topics of discussion before and they have been explained. Why have you missed them if you have read the thread before you started posting?

On August 31 2013 00:36 Sylencia wrote:
Need to sleep, ##Vote Onegu

I mentioned it before

- No real reads since the case on debears dropped
- Pushes on FT for an easy lurker lynch - gives him no reason to have to make a case
- His posts have had some quantity with no quality to it.

I think it's worse than Tutan, and I don't have much meta on Onegu so it's pretty neutral in that respect.

On August 30 2013 17:16 Sylencia wrote:
Alright, here's my current views:

FT: Easily a decent lynch option here, generally you follow a declaration of presence with something, but he's gone mia for the last day. I'd support a lynch on FT.

Tutan: I'm reading up on him and the reasoning behind the votes behind him. I disagree with Hopeless's reasons and while Oats's accusations can make sense, it follows the same reasoning that if Tutan's sheep was a joke, the case around him kind of falls apart:



His vote was in the first hour, and is his vote any worse than Hopeless's vote which sheeped yours? If you apply it to one, it should apply to the other right? Basically, I don't feel comfortable with a Tutan lynch - unless I missed something (I am not reading rayn's filter).

More soonish

On August 30 2013 21:25 Sylencia wrote:


Would you say this is better or worse than what I see from Onegu (who I believe you say you have a town read on):

- No real direction in his play
- He hasn't really had any reads post-debears sobering
- Doesn't push hard for anyone but a lurker.

To me, this seems worse, so I'm interested to see why this comes off differently.

Reading what came in the last page when my friends and I stop dotaing

On August 30 2013 22:48 Sylencia wrote:


Between FT/Hopeless/Onegu which would you vote for? I think you mentioned FT being decent, but is it better than the other 2?

On August 31 2013 00:36 Sylencia wrote:
Need to sleep, ##Vote Onegu

I mentioned it before

- No real reads since the case on debears dropped
- Pushes on FT for an easy lurker lynch - gives him no reason to have to make a case
- His posts have had some quantity with no quality to it.

I think it's worse than Tutan, and I don't have much meta on Onegu so it's pretty neutral in that respect.

On August 31 2013 03:22 Hapahauli wrote:
##Unvote

Lynching replacements isn't good the day they get replaced. We shouldn't be lynching Alakaslam today unless he does something very egregiously scummy.

For people voting FT... that's even worse. A coin-flip lynch is going to lead to zero discussion and waste the entirety of Day 1.

Let's find another candidate. Day 1's are made or broken in the last few hours anyway, so let's see who steps up and hunts some scum.

On August 31 2013 03:40 Hapahauli wrote:


I hate to bring up meta-gaming reasons, but usually when someone replaces in a "hopeless" situation (pun intended) such as this, they're usually demoralized town.

And how is there a good chance that FT is scum? All we know is that he's afk and is going to get modkilled/replaced.

On August 31 2013 11:13 Tutankoopa wrote:
Onegu is mafia. Alakaslam is probably mafia too but right now I want get the Onegu conversation out of the way. There's a general pattern in Onegu's play, and it has to do with what lynches he's pushed, or rather, not pushed. There are two good examples of what I'm talking about.

Onegu made the following post about debears at the start of the game.



Several other things happened after that regarding Onegua and debears, but let's come back to those later. The last thing in this storyline was Onegu abandoning his debears lynch in order to propose a lynch on the 2 post coinflip lynch, FT. Why? Up till that point Onegu had never retracted his stance on debears. When I asked about it, Onegu said he changed his mind on debears due to this post. Well.... there's not much alignment indicative information in that response for two reasons. The first is that the debears post in question (Hapa and I talked about it) had already been a talking point so I can;'t exactly credit Onegue for "making a read." The second reason is that Onegu never said anything about dropping debears as a scumread. I think this is pretty fishy, at best it's null.

The second example is far more damning. It relates to yet again, Onegu having a scumread and not considering that read as a lynch option. Here is what Onegu had to say about Hopeless. I think this was around the time when Onegu returned from a moderate posting break.



"Hopeless has a very good chance of flipping scum."

What do you do when someone has a good chance of flipping scum? You lynch them! What does Onegu do?



This post happened 30 minutes after Onegu can be quoted saying that "hopeless has a very good chance of flipping scum." What else does Onegu have to say about Hopeless?



This obviously came after hopeless dropped out. Onegu's point is that we shouldn't give Alakaslam any leeway for being a replacement. If this is truly Onegu's opinion then I would expect him to still be vocal about considering an Alakaslam lynch, which he wasn't. He made several posts about Hopeless's scumminess throughout D1, but he never showed any interest in lynching him. The same thing goes for the debears read, although that is tricker due to Onegu's non-confirmable explanation.

Summary:

Onegu is not pushing candidates that line up with his scumreads. There was the weirdness with debears, and the multiple instances of Onegu saying that Hopeless is a good lynch, but when it's time to pick a candidate Onegue settles for FT. When Onegu made this decision FT had all of two posts. Why would a townie think one player has a good chance of flipping scum, but then decide to lynch a coinflip lurker who has 2 posts?

On August 31 2013 11:45 Sylencia wrote:
The one I'm currently worried about though is Slam, look at this filter coming into this game - absolute spam :|

On August 31 2013 11:48 Tutankoopa wrote:


Saying that FT had a good chance to flip mafia is worthless if you don't back it up with an explanation. I asked you for an explanation and you posted things such as:





I don't see your reasoning for thinking that FT had a good chance to flip mafia? How could he have? He had two posts. What was going on in your head at the time? What specific reasons did you have for thinking FT was mafia at that exact moment in the thread? I don't see how you could have possibly been more confident in your FT read than in your Hopeless read or any other read.

On August 31 2013 12:18 Tutankoopa wrote:
Meta on somebody who had posted twice?

That's the core of the issue. I mean... I have a hard time believing you had a real read on FT.

On August 29 2013 22:21 raynpelikoneet wrote:
You have a point in FT, Sylencia. I have strong meta-reasons to believe he is scum.

I still don't get the Sn0 part. I get why you think it's beneficial for him to unvote as mafia before leaving, but why would he make the vote on the first place? And why would he unvote in the manner he did as at that time i (and also marv) thought exactly the same thing about sciberbia's post Sno is talking about?

On August 31 2013 19:06 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I mean, i asked Onegu to read some games where FT was in and tell me what he does think, and his only follow up on that was "i guess he was scum in titanic?". That's like.. no. And now he claims he had a meta-read on him? No dude, you did not.

On August 31 2013 03:48 Onegu wrote:



I think based on his first post compared to what rayne had me look up in titanic, and I have seen him lurking in town games also and it was nothing like this, his second post does nothing after his first post says he will post his thoughts, but you are right looks like he will get modkilled at this point, if he comes back my vote will go right back on him though.

##UNVOTE

On August 31 2013 19:44 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Can you answer the second question?
How are you supposed to know what FT does as mafia compared to town when you have never been in a game where he has been mafia?

On August 31 2013 19:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:
What? Do you remember what FirmTofu did in GoT?

On September 01 2013 02:13 Alakaslam wrote:

OK I meant koopa.

See this is why I don't like the claim from ONEGU that FT was scummy. What was so scummy please.

I have piss poor reception sorry

On August 30 2013 23:38 Sn0_Man wrote:
TBH I'm not sure who is a better vote than Alakaslam right now anyway. I'm willing to lynch oats but I feel like that its more intelligent to leave him around a bit longer, get more info out of him.

Sylencia is another option, although apart from his very early stuff that has been done to bits I don't see what else would incriminate him.

I'm not sure who else is a real candidate. Onegu is playing as I expect him to, which might be unfortunate but really doesn't make me want to lynch him. None of Marv/Hapa/Yam are remotely lynchable at this point. Sciberbia picked it up a ton.

Actually reading Tofu makes me plenty happy to lynch him, although at the same time I really question a scummer posting that lol.

I don't think koopa is a real lynch. If nothing else he's been reasonable to rayn, quite above and beyond the call. Which leaves bears but I once again feel that he deserves at least another day.

TL;DR: I still wanna lynch Alakaslam.

PS: maybe it wasn't clear, but I read most of yesterday and essentially never bothered posting once hapa got going because he was saying pretty much everything I thought about the thread. Only substantially more eloquently.

On August 30 2013 23:54 Sn0_Man wrote:

I'm actually getting more interested in taking this approach, mostly to be fair to alakaslam since replacing in as the prime lynch candidate with 8 hours to lynch is horrendously unfair.

On August 31 2013 05:21 Sn0_Man wrote:
Well as far as I'm concerned all of a sudden we have too many reasonable lynches lol (aka our votes are spread already :/).

Syl/FT/Alakaslam are all people I'd lynch plus we have a fair portion tunnelled on koopa.

Since not having my vote on anybody makes it a bit harder for consolidation, I'm going to
##Vote: Alakaslam
however I'm currently quite willing to be convinced on any of those 3.

On August 31 2013 11:25 Sylencia wrote:
Hey guys, wtf happened in the last 18 pages... There were literally 3 or 4 different wagons going on and they were flipping every hour?

@Tutan, I was saying that before...

Anyways, everyone was complaining that I didn't comment on Hopeless. At the time I was going to read his filter again, he got replaced. I don't even know what to say in that kind of situation. Are we supposed to wait for Slam to comment on the happenings of town? Was I supposed to put down a vote on Alakaslam in the 1 hour the was in the game before I slept because he was being useless and Hopeless wasn't exactly the most townie character in the game? I probably should've actually said that I wasn't going to vote for Slam to see what he said, but I didn't even wake up in time for the deadline T_T.

On August 31 2013 00:39 Sylencia wrote:
Note: I did originally say that FT was decent choice, but Oats is right:



I don't really remember a time in any of my games when full lurker ends up being scum.

On September 02 2013 12:51 Hapahauli wrote:


I suppose that's possible, however I wouldn't risk lynching into either today.

I'm more interested in hearing your scum-reads Onegu. We've heard so little from you this game.

On September 02 2013 13:45 Tutankoopa wrote:


Why do our interactions remind me of the awkward silence of public bathrooms? With how I've been talking about you since N1, it seems like you'd have a lot more to say to me than you have. Considering how I've spent most of my time since N1 trying to get you lynched I expect to see some emotion from you, maybe anger or annoyance. You say you're null on me. What are you currently doing to figure out my alignment?

On September 02 2013 13:59 Tutankoopa wrote:


Yeah we talked about it, but I reached a point where I had to either accept that you thought FT was likely mafia, or decide I don't believe you. I don't believe you, so I don't know if that line of inquiry is still productive. Right now I am most interested in your read on me, specifically how it's changed from the very start of N1 until now.

On September 02 2013 15:08 Tutankoopa wrote:


What I'm look for is basically a transcript of your brain's inner monologue while you were reading my case against you. Simple saying that it made you read me as "null" is so boring...

On September 02 2013 21:30 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Hapahauli how does TK's case on Onegu make no sense? Being played with someone a lot does not make you good at meta-reading them. Onegu has never played in a game where FirmTofu has been mafia! That's like the basis of a meta-read. FirmTofu has been inactive before (see GoT). It does not make him mafia, yet Onegu suggests it is "nothing like FT's town games". Guess what, it's also nothing like his scumgame either..

That's why Onegu's "meta-read" makes zero sense. Why actually you do not understand TK's case on Onegu?

On September 02 2013 17:44 Alakaslam wrote:


Anytime.

Seriously though, if these are Yamato reasons there is double standard at work. And I did find someone I thought was scummy, two actually, and bam! I find my own WIFOM in it all.

On September 02 2013 17:47 Alakaslam wrote:

+1

On September 02 2013 17:53 Alakaslam wrote:

+like 5

On September 03 2013 03:49 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I think we should lynch Hapa, seriously. yamato is good at this shit and i am like 99,999999992% sure he is town.

On September 03 2013 04:42 Oatsmaster wrote:
This is why you lynch alak Onegu. Ez.

On August 30 2013 23:38 Sn0_Man wrote:
TBH I'm not sure who is a better vote than Alakaslam right now anyway. I'm willing to lynch oats but I feel like that its more intelligent to leave him around a bit longer, get more info out of him.

Sylencia is another option, although apart from his very early stuff that has been done to bits I don't see what else would incriminate him.

I'm not sure who else is a real candidate. Onegu is playing as I expect him to, which might be unfortunate but really doesn't make me want to lynch him. None of Marv/Hapa/Yam are remotely lynchable at this point. Sciberbia picked it up a ton.

Actually reading Tofu makes me plenty happy to lynch him, although at the same time I really question a scummer posting that lol.

I don't think koopa is a real lynch. If nothing else he's been reasonable to rayn, quite above and beyond the call. Which leaves bears but I once again feel that he deserves at least another day.

TL;DR: I still wanna lynch Alakaslam.

PS: maybe it wasn't clear, but I read most of yesterday and essentially never bothered posting once hapa got going because he was saying pretty much everything I thought about the thread. Only substantially more eloquently.

On August 30 2013 23:54 Sn0_Man wrote:

I'm actually getting more interested in taking this approach, mostly to be fair to alakaslam since replacing in as the prime lynch candidate with 8 hours to lynch is horrendously unfair.

On August 31 2013 00:35 Sn0_Man wrote:
Tofu's filter is 2 posts. Not so bad.

On August 31 2013 00:48 Sn0_Man wrote:
Changed my mind. After a read-through of Syl's filter I detect implied guilt, uselessness and a solid amount of completely unecessary apologetics (okay thats a fancy way of saying implied guilt).

I could lynch that guy too if it comes to that.

Current lynchee's I'd vote for:

Alakaslam
Sylencia

On August 31 2013 00:49 Sn0_Man wrote:
Erm, and probably tofu. I disagree that full lurkers are *never* scum, although I admit its probably not useful enough to lynch him right now. Still, I could lynch him right now.

On August 31 2013 03:39 Sn0_Man wrote:
Continuing what hapa says, this coin flips at a rate of around 75% town simply due to probability.

Yes he needs to not play like this but lynching him isn't really the best choice day 1. I'd need a lot of shining beacons of towniness everywhere else to lynch tofu right now, although if he shows up and doesn't improve that could change.

On August 31 2013 05:21 Sn0_Man wrote:
Well as far as I'm concerned all of a sudden we have too many reasonable lynches lol (aka our votes are spread already :/).

Syl/FT/Alakaslam are all people I'd lynch plus we have a fair portion tunnelled on koopa.

Since not having my vote on anybody makes it a bit harder for consolidation, I'm going to
##Vote: Alakaslam
however I'm currently quite willing to be convinced on any of those 3.

On August 31 2013 05:41 Sn0_Man wrote:
PS Sciberbia or debears wanted to know why oats isn't on my list (forget who).

Mostly its because I feel like if we give oats a bit more rope he could hang himself with it. I feel like I'll get a reasonable read on him given time whereas I'm not convinced my read on say FirmTofu is gonna advance so well and I find tofu just as scummy. Why lynch somebody who will eventually become transparent?

On August 31 2013 07:34 Sn0_Man wrote:
Alright I can do the tofu lynch.

##Unvote
##Vote: FirmTofu

I don't think that slam deserves to live but it makes more sense to consolidate etc etc. Hilarity has its upsides as well.

On September 02 2013 08:52 Sn0_Man wrote:
Hmmm weekends suck.

I've read most everything, and I feel like for now Oats is the person I'm interested in most. He just doesn't feel like the town-presence oats I expect. If he's town I should *know* it by now. I'm not even getting close to a town vibe from him and his excuses are shit like "you guys only think i'm scum because I don't have a 10 page filter" which is a terrible excuse.

Rayn is wildly full of shit but I've known that since like minutes into D1. It feels anti-town but it did last game too and he flipped town. I still kinda wanna kill him though.

I still feel like Onegu is a poor lynch *but* its possible that because he feels like he is stepping up his game what that really means is he is getting some pushes from the scumqt or whatever. He bears watching but I'm not too interested in his lynch yet.

Most everybody else has a read ranging from null to town so I don't feel the need to discuss them.

FWIW I doubt there is an SK in this setup simply because the points mechanic would be even harder to balance with an SK thrown in.

On September 02 2013 08:53 Sn0_Man wrote:
oh yeah forgot Alakaslam he looks awful but not inherently scummy. I'd be interested in lynching him if osmebody could come up with a case that made him look scummy not retarded. Really I think I need to go over how the lynch went down yesterday because I'm pretty sure there was a scum candidate in there somehwere.

On September 03 2013 06:57 Sn0_Man wrote:
Hmmm apologies all for nonexistant activity. Weekends and all that.

Lets lynch oats. Hapa seems like a terrible lynch. Slam is an acceptable substitute but I don't feel like we are learning as much if we lynch him. He feels coinflippy whereas Oats feels scummy.

##Vote: Oatsmaster

On September 03 2013 18:55 yamato77 wrote:
We probably lose at daypost if a townie dies, but whatever. I'll give out my non-Hapa reads.

Sn0 looks like mafia. 4 page filter for day 1, and managed to find himself on both town wagons. Since then, he's done absolutely nothing except decide that Oats was a better lynch than Slam out of nowhere.

If I'm right about Sn0, Slam is also probably mafia. Has done nothing all game and is even less useful than he is in Aperture at any given time. Hopeless was also the main lynch target D1, and him replacing out seems more likely if he is mafia than if he is town in that situation.

TK being thrawn means he's almost certainly not scum, but I still like my 3P read on him. He gives just enough of a fuck that I'm sure this isn't scum thrawn, but not enough for me to want to give him a town read. I feel like he's posted more out of a survival instinct than anything.

Also, still rather convinced of Hapa. I don't see scib/debears/marv/rayn/syl as mafia. Onegu mighty be mafia who is bussing Slam for THE CREDZ but I like my conspiracy theories better.

Anyway, GG scum, you played well.

On September 03 2013 23:19 Sn0_Man wrote:
Hi guys. Its not the weekend anymore so I'm once again around.

Since onegu felt the need to quote my whole filter... my response is essentially: I can't decide on slam (still cant). I was happy with both lynches I voted for at the time I voted for them. They didn't work out and I'm not so happy about it but what do?

If you wish, I can also quote every post I made and put 1-liners in-between. Obviously instead of being sarcastic and confirmation biased my 1-liners would make me look nice.

PS how come getting written off by all of town day 1 then soundly ignored every time I posted (which admittedly fell off a lot) makes me like 4 people's prime scum suspect? o.o

The only other thing I can say is my activity will pick up. Too bad its night phase and we may not get another day.

On September 04 2013 01:06 Alakaslam wrote:

Each addition is two read and each subtraction is scum read. If you disagree, too bad I am still telling it how I see it.

Oh. And as Dandel has not yet said "WTH GTFO", I will continue as if I had voted oats.

Even though he was a null read he was only one I have read.


Sn0 having a hard time gauging town opinion of me or genuinely having difficulty reading for himself on me?

Oh. And if we are scum team? Why would he not bus me lololol. Dat ez towncred.


Townreads: Hapahauli and Debears

Null to town: Marv

Null null: Raynepelikoneet Thrawn Yamato Russia

Null to scum: ONEGU (geez phone when did this start) sn0man

Scum: TBD

Anyone I forgot is not standing out at all and is therefore null to scum

On September 05 2013 20:42 thrawn2112 wrote:


It's time to start talking about who we're gonna lynch.

On September 05 2013 20:50 yamato77 wrote:
Also wouldn't mind an Onegu lynch

He maf, too

On September 06 2013 00:29 Sylencia wrote:


Who would be your secondary lynch choice? you sound rushed here LOL

On September 06 2013 00:47 Sn0_Man wrote:
Re reading, maybe I'm seeing what I want to see in onegu as opposed to what is there, but I seriously see his post as a huge "ZOMG FREE WIN" post. If you consider what he is saying, it makes so much sense for that to come from maf.

On September 05 2013 20:40 Onegu wrote:
So I am here! Any question I am here for. So my case on sn0 isnt as strong since the alakaslam flip, but it still looks like he is distanceing himself from town mislynches. He also has barely scumhunted at all. I still think syl is scum also he attacked me for something he himself was doing and just said he agreed with other peoples cases without adding anything of substance to them, he basicly just +1 cases on people. Marv I am not sure about at this point as he hasnt done much of anything except get in pissing contests, i expect more from him as scum or town doesnt make much sense. Rayn is town he hasnt done anything to change that read from me. Yamato still feels town but I really dont like he was trying to figure out the game from votes that were only on town wagons, doesnt add up. Thrawn seems like he is actually trying to figure out the game at this point while no one else is doing much will move him to slightly town at this point. Hapa is basicly confirmed town at this point.

On September 06 2013 04:25 thrawn2112 wrote:


The bolded is false. I'm assuming that the water level will lower, or at least not rise when we lynch mafia. Why try and coordinate a syl+X lynch when the water will be lower if we only X? I have no idea what Onegu thinks is good about lynching syl and I need him to explain why it is pro town.

On September 06 2013 04:25 thrawn2112 wrote:


The bolded is false. I'm assuming that the water level will lower, or at least not rise when we lynch mafia. Why try and coordinate a syl+X lynch when the water will be lower if we only X? I have no idea what Onegu thinks is good about lynching syl and I need him to explain why it is pro town.

On September 06 2013 04:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Why do you want to lynch Sylencia when marv is scum?
Sylencia could be town and you are making no sense here.
Why are you so unwilling to vote for marv?

On September 06 2013 04:54 Hapahauli wrote:
Onegu, you still around?

On September 06 2013 16:02 yamato77 wrote:

Tomorrow, while high on pain meds after a root canal, I am going to name the last two scum, and then get told I'm wrong and mislynched for the loss of town.

Watch.

On September 06 2013 17:11 thrawn2112 wrote:
wtf why is everyone in the game stoned

On September 06 2013 23:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Because i don't think he is scum.

The only way mafia could have won yesterday, given that marv and Syl were the candidates was that we do your 4-4 suggestion. 2 mafia on marv, 1 mafia on Syl. All mafia vote switch at the last second onto Hapa, if town fucks up, no doctor left, kill anyone but me and GG. How can you bank the game on some bullshit F5 battle if there is a possibility that Sylencia is town? If you thought Sylencia is sure scum, why did you not just try to convince townies to vote for him instead of doing some half-arsed plan?

On September 06 2013 23:44 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I mean, you tried to convince us to have 4 votes on Sylencia, and 4 votes on marv in case Sylencia is town.
If you were sure he is scum why did you not try to convince all of us to vote for Sylencia instead?

On September 06 2013 23:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Yes i think Sylencia is scum. I already said that.
Actually, this makes you most likely town. If you were scum you would know marv & Syl are scum, why would you make a stupid suggestion like that (that would not even get a townie lynched because Sylencia is scum and fakeclaiming).

So you can't basically be scum.

On September 07 2013 00:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:

yeah it makes sense.
Do you think Sno is scum? Why not yamato?

What do you think of thrawn's posts on marv D3? I think he is pretty likely to be town.
What do you think Sno's posts on D3 and his reaction to the flip? I think he is town based on those, and based on his attitude towards me (he does that as town - calls me retarded and not worth listening to).

On September 07 2013 17:05 thrawn2112 wrote:
soooo. lynch syl or yamato? does anyone have a preference?

Also, does anyone have experience getting a broken audio cable out of a laptop audio jack? I hammered a nail straight into the audio jack thinking I could stab and grab the broken bit. What actually ended up happening was that I drove the broken cable tip and the nail straight through the length of the jack and into the laptop.

But now there's enough room in the jack to plug in another audio cable, and everything seems to be working. So I fixed it? Did I just give my laptop cancer?

On August 31 2013 06:41 marvellosity wrote:


Hapa, can you elaborate on this? Is what Syl did with Onegu really out of character? His lynch makes me squirmy right now.

On August 31 2013 06:44 Sn0_Man wrote:
Both alakaslam and FT are mega-sheeping rayn and peaceing. I prefer their lynches to syl for that reason atm. +1 to marv's "squirm".

On August 31 2013 00:48 Sn0_Man wrote:
Changed my mind. After a read-through of Syl's filter I detect implied guilt, uselessness and a solid amount of completely unecessary apologetics (okay thats a fancy way of saying implied guilt).

I could lynch that guy too if it comes to that.

Current lynchee's I'd vote for:

Alakaslam
Sylencia

On August 31 2013 04:05 Sn0_Man wrote:

Thats more like it!

Meanwhile Oats you wanna lynch syl or wat?

On August 31 2013 04:40 Sn0_Man wrote:
Where'd Alakaslam go?

Also I was liking the Syl lynch more o.o

I think i'm just put off of everything rayn says by last game.

On September 08 2013 01:52 thrawn2112 wrote:


I'm waiting on scummy people to give reads, which does in fact mean that I've stopped playing.

On September 09 2013 02:56 Sn0_Man wrote:
Well, I'm really still not sold on the Syl lynch either but we aren't really making possibilities here.

Time to join the lazy train.

##Vote: Sylencia

PS: Re stupid case on me: I'm getting called scum because I noticed that Slam and Tofu were voting Koopa when there was no reason to see him as scum. It looked like maybe they were buddies trying to sheep rayn's terrible wagon into a mislynch, so I was far more inclined to lynch them than syl (who was kinda randomly voting onegu for unknown reasons).

On September 09 2013 22:34 yamato77 wrote:

you?

honestly, i don't care

hope one of you/sn0 is smart enough to actually look at the other one instead of listening to rayn

On September 10 2013 20:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:
For the last three days i have tried to get people talk with each other. Nobody talks with anyone but me, asks me what i think of things. How the hell am i supposed to find out who is scum when you guys do not talk with each other? Ithought you were scum when marv flipped, i think you are still scum because you have done nothing to prove otherwise.

It is true that you are not the only one not trying, nobody else is too. But you are the most experienced of these people ffs, at least you should know to not stop playing if the game is "lost" or "won".

On September 10 2013 14:39 yamato77 wrote:
alright, that's cool, let's just lynch me without talking about anything

##vote yamato77

i don't really care about losing tbh

On September 10 2013 20:54 yamato77 wrote:

What about Marv flipping mafia makes me mafia?

Nothing. Any "association" you think you've drummed up is a figment of your imagination. Any perception that I stopped caring about the game is an equal falsehood.

On September 10 2013 22:14 raynpelikoneet wrote:




The bolded part. If Sno_man was scum this is something he would know he is wrong about knowing Sylencia is mafia. Immediately when Sylencia said "what are you talking about fakeclaims" i posted this:

This is a clear indication i am telling the truth and Hapahauli is going to prove me right. Again, if Sno_man was scum he would not have said the bolded part in upåer quotes, that's something you keep in the scum QT and discuss how will you handle the situation.

But no, after that Sno_man keeps going on telling how retarded my thought process is and how wrong i am. He cannot possibly think he can lynch Onegu over me yelling lynch marv / Sylencia. That's just something that will not happen no matter how wrong or right i am. In addition to that, in case he was scum he would know i am right, and he is doing a self-destructive things calling me retarded, wrong, scum, etc. after that.

It makes zero sense if he is scum. Absolutely zero.

On September 11 2013 00:44 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Yes, i think scum were in full-bus mode as Sylencia's & marv's behavior that phase proves it.
Do you think Sno is more likely to be scum that yamato? Sno tried to figure out the game on D3. What did yamato do? Absolutely nothing but dropped a vote on marv, he did absolutely nothing else.

On September 11 2013 23:40 yamato77 wrote:
Also for turning a blind eye to the obvscum Onegu as he weasels his vote onto me this last day behind Rayn's incessant tunnel.

On September 11 2013 23:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:
So Onegu, do you think yamato is scum or not?

On September 12 2013 00:09 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Well now, (1) answer yamato's case on you please. Then (2) tell me why someone is scum in this game.

On September 11 2013 07:15 yamato77 wrote:
Just look at how he goes from thinking you are mafia to thinking I am mafia, and voting me.

Does he seem at all interested in reading my filter and giving a real read of me or is he simply following the thread sentiment that I am scum and trying to win today?

Really, his last post gives it away. "Yeah, I just want to be sure about this thing, so I'll go ahead and vote Yamato and try to get the day to end early."

Makes no sense.

On September 11 2013 07:23 yamato77 wrote:
Notably, he also didn't vote for Sylencia before day 3. Now ask yourself, if Sylencia is going to fakeclaim and try to save Marv or whatever, wouldn't the last scum want to bus Sylencia or push another lynch? Why would one scum leave his vote on Marv basically the whole day while the other is moving to try to divert attention? It makes far more sense to also be diverting attention, especially when the attention is on a fakeclaim that is easy to WIFOM about endlessly.

Also, as I said before, his voting history is pathetic. D1 and D2 he placed his vote on the ultra lurkers and basically peaced. The only reason his vote changed D1 was because he was "waiting for FT to explain himself" or whatever, but it ended back there anyway. D2 he literally voted and then did almost nothing else.

Rayn thinks Onegu is town because of hiw he went after Syl D3, but does he ever consider that Sylencia's claim was meant to be so he could be bussed, to buy Marv time? It's easy to look like you think someone is scum when YOU KNOW they are scum.

On September 11 2013 07:34 yamato77 wrote:
The whole reason I went through this process today was to see how the three of you would justify voting me under these circumstances. You and Rayn are obviously just subject to massive confirmation bias at this point, and that's actually pretty telling to me. The fact that you both have continued to find fictitious reasons why I'm mafia shows that you at least care about scumhunting to some extent, even if you are dead wrong about my alignment and my general play as town.

Onegu, on the other hand, is a different story. He's waffled about it and such, because he had a "scumread" on you, Sn0, so it look odd if he goes into MYLO and just votes me. But essentially, that's what he's done. He pointed out some apparent inconsistency in my posting (meaningless semantics) and echoed the stupid fucking sentiment that I've "given up on the game" (I clearly haven't), and then waffled some more.

Really, like I said, it's his final actions that give him away. If he "wants to be sure about this" why did he leave his vote on me and decide to shorten the day? The cognitive dissonance gives away his true intentions; he wanted to find a reason to vote for me and, by extension, win the game. He wasn't at all interested in actually looking at my filter and reading my true alignment, because not once did he come up with a single original thought about my play.

So yeah, you can thank me later, I solved the game.

##Unvote
##Vote Onegu

On September 12 2013 00:40 yamato77 wrote:

you didn't vote syl until after his claim, so you get zero townie points for bussing your scummate

On September 12 2013 00:40 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Your vote did not go on Sylencia before his fakeclaim. Why are you lying?

On September 12 2013 00:42 yamato77 wrote:

it was a ploy to see who would FEEL THE NEED to continue to justify voting for someone who (on the surface) didn't care about dying.

Rayn and Sn0 did that, you just left your vote and peaced.

On September 12 2013 00:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Did you vote for Sylencia on D1?

On September 12 2013 00:56 raynpelikoneet wrote:

afaik debears made the case on Sylencia that got sheeped, not you.

These are your posts during the time:


Your vote is on FT. Your vote stays on FT. After that you unvote FT. Then you say "i need to think about this" and the next post you vote FT again.

How is that your case?

On September 12 2013 01:04 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Why did you never vote for Sylencia until i called out his fakeclaim if you were sure he was scum?

On September 12 2013 01:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:
The only reason he thinks he is town is because of his stance on Sylencia. Everything he says about his stance on Sylencia is false.

On September 13 2013 09:57 Hapahauli wrote:
Oh, and GG gaiz

I played pretty goddamn terrible this game. I didn't have enough time to invest in this game, and it pretty clearly showed in my play. Shout-out to Onegu for a very solid scum-game, and to marv for throwing yet another wrinkle in his scum-game that I have to see through next time >>

On September 02 2013 23:24 Onegu wrote:



Ok I sent a PM to the hosts and syl (hope thats not illegal/cheating) if I could talk about FT in P4 when we talking about I have never seen his scum play, and since at the time he hadnt flipped and the game wasnt over they told me I couldnt. But now that the game is over I have seen FT play scum, it had no resemblence to this game, but my main point about his meta with me was I have seen him play lurky town in GoT and in that game he still made reads on people just not many, and when he came back he defended himself and posted his reads for his post death flip, he did none of those things this game. While sounding like a broken record, his meta wasnt the only reason I voted for him. His play and lack of interest was also scummy. He deserved to die and I would have done it again because he was playing scummy and against his meta.

The only thing I said to syl in the PM was can I talk about FT in persona, and his answer was no, the game is ongoing. Sorry if this is against the rules or cheating. I just wanted to know if I could talk about it.