EPTDesert Mini Mafia - Page 21
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
In persona we lacked intelligent townies so I put forth what I could. Town was swallowing rayn's garbage so I essentially fought rayn (another townie) for days until he was NK'd then the game was literally already solved based on voting and such. I just had to bash some of the dumber townies into seeing it. PS I was wildly off on my reads most of the game anyway. This game there are plenty of smarter people so I don't need to get into shouting matches regarding awful lynches since nobody is dumb enough to listen to rayn very much. Unfortunately I'm not good at actually identifying scum from their play (see: persona) so I kinda suffer along and try to help where I can. This is not true. WoS was purposely playing anti-town from the beginning and refused to explain himself to me multiple times. What am i supposed to do? Of course i made mistakes and could have looked things more objectively but it's pretty hard when someone refuses to explain anything to you. If you remember D1 i said "I am sure geript is scum but i can't justify lynching him to myself because every anti-town thing he does WoS does it 100x". After WoS got lynched it took me two phases to solve the game, and the only thing i was not sure of was you, because of what you are doing here aswell right now. Discrediting me without any real reason to do so. You can call my play or methos as bad as you wish but that doesn't change the fact that when i get my shit together i find scum. You are not helping with you comments atm. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
I go against arguments that are wrong. Yes, in Persona i mislynched on D1, after that i never had my vote on a townie in that game. I never accused a townie after that in the game (besides Sno_man). I didn't even get mad on Sno_man who refused to talk to me when i was trying to have a civilized conversation with him. On N2 I gave my resoning on the scum in the game that was right. Only thing i was not sure of was Sno_man. So comments like "I don't need to get into shouting matches regarding awful lynches since nobody is dumb enough to listen to rayn very much" i do not understand. Nobody ever gave me good reasons why thrawn is town D1. PEople just called my case bad, called me dumb, and thrawn town. It still remains a mystery to me why? | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
Or i get killed N1/N2. Last time scum tried to tunnel me was Ace in NWM N1. Didn't work out, too bad nobody realized he was scum. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
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raynpelikoneet
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By calling me bad i mean not telling why my arguments are bad but rather just give the thread the impression "this guy is wrong and does not know what he is talking about" or not answering my arguments at all and the accusing me of shitting up the thread when i try to explain what i mean. I have never seen marv do this before. He is a guy who usually is willing to listen to me and if he thinks i am wrong he tells me where i am going wrong and why. His D1 play regarding me--thrawn was completely different from what it usually is. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
His recent actions point towards him scum, and if he is unable to reasonably explain them i want to lynch him. Because right now he is not making any sense to me. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
On September 05 2013 08:01 Hapahauli wrote: Can you elaborate on the marv bit? GIve us something concrete, and I think it would definetely warrant a response from marv. I will say that I think the difference might be due to your suspicion on him this game (to which he generally does not respond well). ----------- On August 30 2013 19:06 marvellosity wrote: I disagree completely with the bolded. On Day 1 especially it's how I go about getting most of my townreads (and meta). There's approximately a 0.1% chance I'll lynch him today, if you come up with some mindbendingly good case. I'd lynch Oats way before i'd lynch Tuten today, for one Marv answers only something both me and him know i am right on. He does not comment on anything else i point out in my post (agreed, it's not his job to defend thrawn, but when he has started, why not go on then and reason himself). On August 30 2013 20:55 marvellosity wrote: rayn, this looks like a pretty bad case of blowing something small out of all proportion. That's a false statement. When i ask him about it: On August 30 2013 21:01 marvellosity wrote: It's an irrelevancy. Like, you're accusing him of dodging something that didn't even matter in the first place. That's also false. The point of my Oats/Hopeless questions was to find out thrawn's thought process. It's irrelevant if he was wrong/right/whatever, i wanted to know why he was asking stuff he was, and why he had reached the conclusions he had. After this, thrawn's thought process fails - he gives different answers to same questions when i point out the holes in his answers. This is what marv has to say about my case: On August 30 2013 22:19 marvellosity wrote: rayn get off this tunnel now. It seems blatantly obvious Tutan is trying to be rational and engage with you, and you're just nitpicking. stop. On August 30 2013 22:24 marvellosity wrote: no because it's retarded and i'm really fucking bored of it. Like, "thrawn is being reasonable because he is talking with you and your case is bad". That's it? That's all? Nothing about why my case is bad. Why does thrawn wanting to defend himself make him town? | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
On September 05 2013 08:05 Hapahauli wrote: Well you kinda beat me to it (and I was hoping to get some response from yamato before it), but yeah I think Yamato is town. Him going after you like this makes very little sense with how he generally plays scum. Also, him vocally questioning my doctor claim strikes me as absurd confirmation bias as opposed to malicious. My scumteam right now is probably Onegu/Sylencia, and I'm a bit lost on the third. I would say marv or sn0, relaly not sure. I don't think Onegu is scum. He had his good post about Sno on N2 and when i was questioning him on his FT meta read the response i got in the end was really genuine. I also do not think Sno is scum. I do not know what he would do with me if he was scum, but his stance on me seems like the same than when he is town. Yamato needs to explain himself. Sylencia is a good lynch. Marv and Thrawn too. One of those guys is probably town and others are scum. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
On September 02 2013 23:24 Onegu wrote: Ok I sent a PM to the hosts and syl (hope thats not illegal/cheating) if I could talk about FT in P4 when we talking about I have never seen his scum play, and since at the time he hadnt flipped and the game wasnt over they told me I couldnt. But now that the game is over I have seen FT play scum, it had no resemblence to this game, but my main point about his meta with me was I have seen him play lurky town in GoT and in that game he still made reads on people just not many, and when he came back he defended himself and posted his reads for his post death flip, he did none of those things this game. While sounding like a broken record, his meta wasnt the only reason I voted for him. His play and lack of interest was also scummy. He deserved to die and I would have done it again because he was playing scummy and against his meta. The only thing I said to syl in the PM was can I talk about FT in persona, and his answer was no, the game is ongoing. Sorry if this is against the rules or cheating. I just wanted to know if I could talk about it. Do you think Onegu would make a post like this if he was mafia? I don't. On September 03 2013 19:05 Onegu wrote: Going in order of posts to expand on my sn0 question. First Wants to lynch Alakaslam as he is the best lynch option, is ok with a FT lynch. Wants to give slam a chance and move onto FT Not sure but I think this is him backing off of FT because his next post is. These posts go together. Not a complete back off of FT but he first says Slam and Syl are the main lynches he would choose. Then FT if he had to. But now a almost complete back off of FT. Finally puts his vote down on slam, but back to being ok with a FT lynch. Now oats is scummy, but earlier he said the reason oats was scummy was 100% meta. Also here he talks about FT is just as scummy. Off of slam and right onto FT. While of course earlier it was unfair to lynch slam, but now he doesnt deserve to live. Now oats is his main scum read. Is willing to kill rayn and now I need to be looked at because I am upping my game?! But no mention of Alakaslam who deserved to die. Realizes he forgot alakaslam, but now he needs convinced alakaslam is scum not just retarted. Votes oats but says slam is a acceptable subsitute but we get more info from a oats lynch?!? And then we dont hear from him again. TLDR; sn0 is insanely wishy washy on alakaslam going from he should die to he shouldnt die its unfair to he deserves to die again to Ill only vote for him if someone convinces me he is scum. It really looks like some light bussing then defense if things get to hot. Alakaslam/sn0 scum team. This is a good post imo. It has thinking behind it and it comes to a conclusion. Conclusion at that time seemed good imo. ----- Notice that yamato basically made the exact same read on Sno at the exact same time. Now Sno is town and Onegu is scum for yamato. Why? | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
At the start of the game marvellosity is sure that Tutankoopa is town because of this: On August 29 2013 18:40 marvellosity wrote: Because at the start of the day, mafia decide to say things like this to look super-awesome to the thread, right? No. I liked his two questions to Hopeless and I like how he sounds in general. Maybe just a natural affinity to someone with a brain? marv does not know who Tutankoopa is. I understand he can have a town read on him early on based on what he says, but the fact that he can't possibly know who the dude is makes it very hard to believe that throughout the game town!marv has no intention of figuring out Tutankoopa's alignment. Then there is marv's stance on my case on Tutankooppa, which is comlete bullshit compared to what marv normally does. I talked about it earlier. When thrawn forgets his passwords and starts posting with his own account, marv says this: On September 03 2013 19:59 marvellosity wrote: Tutan is thrawn? I didn't see that one coming. Kinda sad I know who it is, because now I can't help attaching overall opinions of thrawn to his posts. I would say his posts are much higher quality than I expected (compliment, not an insult) and I'd be pretty surprised if thrawn is mafia. This is a bad post. marvellosoity has not even tried to read Tutankoopa all game. He just decided he is town based on his couple of good posts at the start of the game (which he can't do in the first place as he didn't know who the guy was). Suddenly he decides that "thrawn is town because his posting seems better than thrawn's posting as scum". This is wrong because: 1) When people Smurf they usually play at least a bit differently than usually. 2) marv has not read Tutan's post closely all game, which is very clear just by reading the thread and knowing him. If he does not find someone suspicious he does not to care to read their posts and talk about them. marv has not tried to get a good read on Tutankoopa/thrawn all game. It makes zero sense when thrawn was smurfing, and it makes zero sense after that. marv's voting behavior is very fishy: He does not push cases. At all. He always pushes cases as town, even if they are wrong. Hopping on to Oats lynch on D1 while clearly having no firm read on him and a scumread on Hopeless/Alakaslam. At best for marv those two people looked equally good/bad. There is no way town!marv would in that situation lynch Oats (who is readable) over Hopeless/Alakaslam (who is unreadable). Another thing i found odd is that on D2 marv says best lynches are Sylencia/Slam. Then he votes for Slam. Fair enough. But what happens after. He questions Oats and some other dides, but never Sylencia, his scumread. Again, he ends up voting for Oats (who he still has no clear read on) over Slam (still unreadable - for comparsion see D1 votes) and Sylencia (his scumread who he has never really questioned during the whole game). This makes zero sense to me. Besides this, there is nothing much marv has done to "help" the town: I wrote "help" so you can see the sarcasm because what i wrote earlier is definitely not helping.. He has been calling me bad (compared to how he usually treats me that's not town!marv), he has been calling Oats bad on D1 (to be fair, he treated the situation with Oats reasonably - but the conclusions he drew from it were completely wrong and town!marv should know it, Oats does just that as town, as i explained to him). Besides the Oats and yamato discussions on D1 he has not been engaging into any discussions in the game at all, he has made a case on Slam D2, never tried to push it and as soon as Oats lynch was available he just went with it for no good reasons. He is not questioning his scumreads at all (see Sylencia). He has never pushed any lynches for real. He has let Hapa run this town without caring much about if we are wrong or right. He is not even trying to bounce ideas with Hapa at all, which would be highly beneficial in case he is town and has such a strong town read on Hapa he claims. This is nothing i would expect from town!marv. TLDR; There is nothing specific i can point out why marv is sure scum, because he does not make obvious mistakes as mafia, he is too good for that. But these little things added together make me think he is not town. He is not trying to help the town, he is going with the flow rather than finding mafia. ##Unvote: ##Vote: marvellosity | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
On September 05 2013 19:41 thrawn2112 wrote: Rayn what do we do now that we agree? I dunno, probably lynch marv, Sylencia and yamato. Possibly Sno_man in exchange of yamato if he is able to reasonably explain himself. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
On September 05 2013 17:59 thrawn2112 wrote: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://www.acartoonchristmas.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/rudolph-sam.jpg) 1. countless "iunno's" 2. this post 3. he's mindful of who is reading him as town 4. posts like this where he is critical of people but not concerned about their alignment 5. bro why don't you push hopeless more 6. does he know how scum water mechanics work? 7. ooh are you bussing? 8. he's called me scum a few times lately but I don't remember him giving a shit about anything i've done 9. i'm pretty sure rayn is town, and enabling town rayn is pretty mafia-motivated imo If anyone has reasons why sn0 is town you need to get in touch with me before the lynch You are right what you say in here. My slight town read on Sno is based on what he says about me and how he treats me in this game. His last answers to me feel genuine. Especially because i know in 4 Persona he got really frustrated in me even when i was 90% right on my reads when WoS flipped. He still called me shitting the thread and would not talk with me. Here his post where he says "In case rayn is town he is probably right and that is disgustingly annoying" or something makes me feel like he is town knowing what he thinks of me in general. I can't really ccomment on Sno/yamato or make my mind on them before they comment more on what people asked them to explain. It's a no-go for me to question Sno, he does not like my playstyle and he will just get annoyed with me. Whatever his alignment is me questioning him does not help anyone to get a read on him. That's why i wait for him/yamato to comment on other people. I think you made good observations on Onegu earlier. Both his meta-case on FT, and his post about PMing Sylencia. I think that makes him town - in addition to that his town-play looks like this. I would like him to give more opinions of his own, but that's how he rolls as town. I also think your observations after D2 make you more likely to be town. Mainly what you said about marv and Onegu. I disagree with Onegu being mafia, and i slightly disagree with Sno being mafia, but your posts are good and your conclusions make sense. That leaves me with marv, Sylencia and one of yamato/Sno. I want to kill marv because it's more likely scumteam will panic after their leader dead, and start making bad decisions. :D I still want to hear from yamato and Sno, as said earlier, to make up my mind on them. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
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why not yamato? | ||
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raynpelikoneet
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I don't really know Sylecia's meta. I am basing my read on him on his posts, which are really bad. Like, he accuses Onegu of going after easy targets all game and that's pretty much it. He has done the exact same thing, but without proper reasoning. At least Onegu's reasons sound like a townie could think. What do you think of what me & Hapa said about yamato on D3? Does yamato's posts make sense to you? Why? | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
On September 05 2013 20:50 yamato77 wrote: Also wouldn't mind an Onegu lynch He maf, too Could you now give the exact reasoningwhy you go from "Sno mafia, i make a exact same case than Onegu does on him" to "Onegu is mafia and Sno is town"? I could somehow see the "okay i was wrong about Sno" thinking, but i can't see how that suddenly makes Onegu scum? After all he did have the exact same thought process than you did about Sno on N2. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
On September 05 2013 20:23 thrawn2112 wrote: About the stance switching after N2? I don't think it's scummy, but yamato needs to answer some of hapa's questions first before I really care to talk about it. I know that's what Hapa was talking about, you'll have to remind me if you were bringing up anything different. I've given a few reasons why I think yamato is town. They are in this filter and it's not that long. (1): If you plan on lynching Syl you need to read his past games first. You say he's accusing people without proper reasoning. And this is something only mafia do? I'm going to need to be convinced about Syl. (2): You're calling me town now? Was there any exact moment when you changed your mind about this? (1): No i do not. I do no know how he plays as scum. If you are going to convince me he is town please feel free to do so. I do not see how his play makes sense from town!pov. Anyways i want to lynch marv today. That's something to be discussed tomorrow. (2): Your observations & conclusions on N2-D3. They make sense to me from towm!pov. | ||
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