EPTDepending on the situation at the end of D1 scum might prefer either 1-1-1 or 2-1. Since we don't know what it will be, it's a bad idea for the unlynchable to claim.
Whatever, best is to not let the game go to D2.
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phagga
Switzerland2194 Posts
Depending on the situation at the end of D1 scum might prefer either 1-1-1 or 2-1. Since we don't know what it will be, it's a bad idea for the unlynchable to claim. Whatever, best is to not let the game go to D2. | ||
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phagga
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On August 08 2013 23:10 geript wrote: ##vote oatsmaster I'm sure you will also explain us why? And since you're here: On August 08 2013 05:41 geript wrote: On phagga. He looks like he's absolutely trying to get lynched. He just keeps on making these obvious non-towny sentiments in the thread. Why is this a non-townie sentiment. Please elaborate. | ||
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phagga
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Also, please answer these questions | ||
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phagga
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On August 08 2013 23:41 Oatsmaster wrote: oh what. Cause mocsta playing the game man, longest filter I think, trying to find out shit. I disagree with you on that point btw. I dont think you gave a good reason for not claiming. And you keep repeating the same bad reason. No wonder Mocsta aint happy. Reasons for Hapa after Geript gives reasons for me. Although, Hapa not invested in this game at all, and I dont think he is jester. Mocsta's mainly all over me now, and I welcome that he's actually doing something now compared to yesterday. I'll look forward to his posts once he is off phone. Of course I repeat the same reason, because it's the ones I had for not claiming, lol. If you don't like the answer, perhaps you guys need to ask another question? I do agree that Hapa is not very invested, but why do you think that Hapa is not the jester? | ||
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phagga
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On August 08 2013 14:58 Mocsta wrote: I suspect scum asked this question as i can't imagine town thinking about this.. I know I certainly didnt Why would you not think about that question as town? Do you think this information is not important for town? On August 08 2013 16:29 Mocsta wrote: Frankly I feel I have gone out of my way to express why I dont understand u.. and u keep backpedaling to your discourse with oats..that's shoddy to me and hence That's why I'm not interested in hapa currently. In fairness I'm restricted to phone posting at work . So I will make a deal with u. When I get home. I will summarise my grievance for u one last time via computer so I can quote etc I'm still not sure if you are really trying to figure me out, but you are talking to me, so let's try to get rid of this topic once and for all. I went back through your posts. I found the last you posted regarding your grievance is this (emphasis is mine in all following quotes): On August 08 2013 12:37 Mocsta wrote: sure. Phagga has a consistent vibe in his posts which is a plus. however I'm still struggling to get why he was hesitant to claim when he supported the plan . This seems more to do with paranoia considering He also admits to looking carefully for the lynchproof which falls into my mafia mindset criteria. Im not sure whether a jester would be playing this reckless either. So for now I'm willing to consider phagga as non jester....Maybe mafia though. I do feel phagga has not sufficiently addressed why he was hesitant to claim either whether talking to myself or oats. Phagga. The crux of my problem is. U agree with the lynchproof plan yet did not want to contribute to it?? I just don't understand how u could withhold that information if the key to the plans success in it eyes was to have information?? I thought I already answered these questions with the following post to Oats: On August 07 2013 21:26 phagga wrote: Yes, I do. When geript asked everyone to claim, my reaction was not "oh well, claiming VT is useless information, I might as well claim". I thought "Why does he want everyone to claim? What's the ieea behind it?". And for that thought my own role was absolutely irrelevant. All I wanted is to know why he thinks it's a good idea to claim. Oats, what do you think of Mocsta so far? I'm at work and have a meeting in 30 minutes, need to prepare. Will be offline for a few hours. And earlier to you: On August 07 2013 20:19 phagga wrote: (1) Perhaps my post was just unclear? What I meant here is that I'm holding my thoughts on geripts plan back. Of course if I then later post them they look like geripts plan, because they are tied to his plan. Well, after he lined it out I thought the plan was ok. I was back then expecting the unlynchable to claim under any circumstance, although I see now why he doesn't (makes more sense to claim D2 if still alive). With that in mind, I expected the claims to give us some lead on who to lynch. At the same time I saw no real downside for town. Hence I thought the plan is worth trying out. Also, as I explained, I hoped that scum and/or jester might make a mistake with claiming, leading to confirmed townies. I thought and still think that these two quotes answer your questions. If they don't please elaborate on what exactly is unclear. | ||
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phagga
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Jesters wincon is relevant to town because it influences towns behaviour in 1-1-1 on D2. With the new information it means that town is in an almost unwinnable situation. And I thought of that question too, but it got answered before I could ask it. So I disagree that a townie would not think of it | ||
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phagga
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Exhibit A1&2 My own thoughts revolved about confirming townies, something geript did not mention. You don't want to believe, fine. And you're surprised I had a rapid change of heart? Really? Do you remember nominations? Don't tell me I'm not doing stuff like this as town. finally, in your quote in Exhibit A-2 I was clearly not seeking the unlynchable, I wrote that I understood now why he would withhold from claiming which means I agreed with his action => not seeking him. Exhibt B Everyone claimed VT. 3 out of 4 people are lying, including one townie. What's the use of this? Second, you make it look like my whole play so far revolves around setup and plans, which is just not true. However, I do like to try to understand a setup as good as possible (which includes possible situations for D2, btw). http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=407704&user=phagga This is the first page of my filter of Dr. Who Mafia. Mostly setup talk. Yes, I do like figuring out setups. No, it does not make me scum. Exhibit C Eh, what? if 2 people have not claimed it is very well possible that both will claim non-VT-roles. you are using hindsight knowledge to criticize my actions, I couldn't *know* that you both would claim VTs. Exhibit D I don't have a problem with you quering my mentality. On August 08 2013 23:48 phagga wrote: Mocsta's mainly all over me now, and I welcome that he's actually doing something now compared to yesterday. I'll look forward to his posts once he is off phone. I even took the time to try to answer your questions again as good as I could. I don't have a problem with you attacking me, I have a problem how you did in the beginning. Also, Oats probed me alot as well, but he did it in a way that made me feel that he was really trying to figure me out. I did not get that feeling from your early play, hence my earlier scum/jester-read on you. Exhibit E Setup talk, see above. Generally I find the case to be pretty bad. What worries me most is that you focus on my comments regarding setup and plans, and ignore everything else. You're concentrating on me completely, which makes sense if you're town and think I'm scum. However, you misrepresented things I said a few times, which bothers me (claiming I changed my position on Hapa when I didn't, me saying your either jester or scum and you claiming I called you exclusively scum). It just feels like you are either not reading the game very carefully or try to make me look bad on purpose. You're either a townie blind from tunneling scum. Not sure which one it is yet. Hapa and Geript, I would like to hear your opinions on Mocstas case on me. Also, @Geript, On August 09 2013 00:01 geript wrote: Oats totes scum that's y I vote oats This will not convince me. I currently read Oats as town, as I feel he is trying to figure people out. So tell me, why is Oats scum? | ||
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phagga
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On August 09 2013 07:29 geript wrote: ##unvote ##vote phagga I think the last two unvoted (hapa/phagga) are scum/jester. Meh whatevs. I thought Oats is totes scum, what changed? | ||
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phagga
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Hapa, you seem to have zero interest in playing the game, what's going on? What's your stance on Mocsta now? What do you think of geripts behaviour? 5 new posts in 7 hours? This is most dissappointing. | ||
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phagga
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Geript, I told you that Oats is my town read, why would I vote him? What kind of absurd logic is that? And I asked you for your reasons for the vote, how did I avoid it? Mocsta, you know who else tries to stay alive? Town. I can't believe the crap you're writing. ##Vote: Mocsta | ||
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phagga
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And he should know better, specially from nominations mafia. I cannot believe that Town-Mocsta plays like this. Geript, so all I would have had to do is put down a vote to look townie? Do you really think that scum is not able to put down the first vote one someone in this game? Or do you have other reasons for voting me? Oats and geript, read Mocstas filter, and tell me what he has done that makes him town. He has been tunneling me the whole game and has tried to discredit me with wrong information on several occasions. How is he displaying a town mindset? | ||
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phagga
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On August 09 2013 17:26 geript wrote: It's not what you said. You sidestepped the discussion. All "He's a town read, but you could convince me if you wanted." Because you might have seen things that I missed? If you pointed out something that must come from a scum mindset, I'd be stupid to not change my read. After all you seemed to be very convinced, so I thought I might have missed something. | ||
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phagga
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phagga
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I can't imagine scum being so inactive. Wouldn't he try to at least get some control of the game? After all, he wants to steer it to a misslynch some way. | ||
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phagga
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Besides, if Hapa isn't jester, who is? Geript is looking townie, so are you. For me, that only leaves Mocsta, and I don't think he is actively trying to get lynched. | ||
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phagga
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phagga
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Geript is a stubborn bastard, and I have no clue how I can convince him that he's wrong on me. He does not even really talk to me. | ||
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phagga
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Mocsta! On August 09 2013 18:07 Mocsta wrote: this is beyond ridiculous. hapa has been miserly pushing me all game as Mafia. we all know from the rule clarification that jester and Mafia can share a victory. henceforth a jester hapa would have stopped pushing for my lynch if he truly thought I was Mafia... instead, he continued after the announcement. I shall repeat that u thought it was natural to consider jester interactions,which just drops my jaw as a townie. Mafia love pushing the theory that scum is some mastermind trying to be active and pulling strings. where as we all know better. game after game on team liquid has shown that scum are always most likely to try and control things behind the scenes. this whole game I have been transparent in my approach to finding antitown ; yet now u try and accuse me of being a scum mastermind..,, lol phagga just lol. u r the one that has been subtlely trying to steer things starting from the very beginning of the game when u tried to cock block the geript plan your post is full of bullshit, lies and contradictions. Let's have a look. + Show Spoiler + On August 09 2013 18:07 Mocsta wrote: this is beyond ridiculous. hapa has been miserly pushing me all game as Mafia. we all know from the rule clarification that jester and Mafia can share a victory. henceforth a jester hapa would have stopped pushing for my lynch if he truly thought I was Mafia... instead, he continued after the announcement. LIE Hapa "miserly pushing you" even after the rule clarification: On August 08 2013 09:57 Hapahauli wrote: Alright I'll take a look. Again though, early game town-reads are not 100%. However I'm suspicious enough of Mocsta at this point to not have much of my focus on Oats. This post is the last time that Hapa mentions you as being suspicious or scumread. Now check the timestamps on the rule clarification: On August 08 2013 14:40 Blazinghand wrote: Rules clarification re: endgaming the jester A jester endgamed by the town loses. A jester endgamed by scum gets a "partial victory" This came later. Since this post, all Hapa has posted are these two posts: + Show Spoiler + On August 08 2013 16:00 Hapahauli wrote: No, but a Jester won't necessarily reveal his/her hand this soon. You have to balance being scummy with being laughably obvious. Just because you don't understand my explanation doesn't mean I didn't explain it. As said twice before, there's simply no merit in having the unlynchable townie claim now. Why out a blue when we don't need to? He can claim at any time. Best case scenario for town is to have him live to tomorrow and THEN claim. On August 09 2013 07:11 Hapahauli wrote: Nothing about Mocsta's case is alignment indicative. He seems most concerned with the "preparing for D2" bit, but what does that even mean? It's impossible for townies to be concerned about basically auto-losing on D2? So no, Hapa has been barely pushing you at the beginning of the game. since the clarification, he has not mentioned you once as a scumread or a lynch candidate. And yes, it's perfectly possible that you are Mafia, since the guy we all think is jester stopped pushing you after the rule clarification. CONTRADICTION On August 09 2013 18:07 Mocsta wrote: I shall repeat that u thought it was natural to consider jester interactions,which just drops my jaw as a townie. Oh really? Please read the bolded part: On August 08 2013 10:27 Mocsta wrote: Firstly. I can understand why some have chosen to pressure me. Its a 5 player game and I have one of the largest filters. Hence; the most content to go through at this early stage. Perhaps instead of brash - incorrect - analysis, it would be more pertinent to address questions I can actually respond to. Secondly. Personally, I still take issue with the lynchproof plan. I get what the plan does; I get that we have moved away from the plan; however I just dont understand why a player would concoct a plan that leaves town with a 50/50 chance to win. This is far from a pro-town plan to consider, let alone continue to endorse. Lastly. I stand by my logic; hence, I think you guys are treating this way too much like a normal, and not giving enough credit for what each of the anti-town roles want to achieve. The whole point of this game is that if you mis-read somone, it could be GG due to Jester. Its only by understanding how they need to proceed, that we can catch them. That's what I have been doing. Trying to understand how they need to proceed to achieve optimal results. But now you're here calling me scum for following the very advise you gave? BULLSHIT, followed by CONTRADICTIONS On August 09 2013 18:07 Mocsta wrote: Mafia love pushing the theory that scum is some mastermind trying to be active and pulling strings. where as we all know better. game after game on team liquid has shown that scum are always most likely to try and control things behind the scenes. This is so much garbage I don't even know where to start. Let's just take the easiest one: How does scum, in this game, without partners, without PMs, control things behind the scenes? Answer: He can't. this whole game I have been transparent in my approach to finding antitown ; yet now u try and accuse me of being a scum mastermind..,, lol phagga just lol. I'm not saying your a scum mastermind, I say you try to steer the game to a misslynch. You try to get enough control over the game so you can push my mislynch through. And you have almost succeded. On August 09 2013 18:07 Mocsta wrote: u r the one that has been subtlely trying to steer things starting from the very beginning of the game when u tried to cock block the geript plan I was cockblocking the plan? But wait: On August 09 2013 01:57 Mocsta wrote: Now whilst I can agree that skeptical is a "townie"-ish trait to exhibit and you do indeed seek more information from Geript; its the post-plan behaviour that I find odd. So... is it a townie trait to be skeptical and try to gain more info, or am I cock blocking his plan? Contradictions, Contradictions. Also, subtly steering things in the thread means I'm trying to have some control over the game. Didn't you just write further up that scum does not play this way? Your case on me revolves entirely around my setup speculation and plan behaviour. You completely ignore my reads and the reasons for them, you ignore that I tried to get converstation going with others several times. Tell me, where comes that habit to repeatedly call yourself town? Why do you feel the need after your VT claim to repeat that you are town? + Show Spoiler + On August 08 2013 14:58 Mocsta wrote: I suspect scum asked this question as i can't imagine town thinking about this.. I know I certainly didnt Hmmm I imagine this changes the game somewhat as now scum have the option to bandy up day2 and are probably playing the lurking game.. Where are u phagga.... On August 09 2013 00:42 Mocsta wrote: @Phagga. For your first query: Why would you not think about the question as town Win-Con phagga... Why would I -let me remind you: town- be contemplating the jester wincon beyond to be lynched? My focus is to lynch the goon, and avoid the jester. (As a post-game thing.. I would be seriously shocked if it wasn't the jester that asked for clarification.. which then leads into WIFOM about timezones etc) [i]Do you think this information is not important for town I think it just opens up WIFOM, so no. Regardless of whether jseter wants a selfish victory, or shared... my focus is the same. Lynch the goon. Do you beg to differ? =============== (2) Regarding grievances etc, This ties into my query post to you. Will start compiling soonish. Need to re-read again first. On August 09 2013 18:07 Mocsta wrote: this is beyond ridiculous. hapa has been miserly pushing me all game as Mafia. we all know from the rule clarification that jester and Mafia can share a victory. henceforth a jester hapa would have stopped pushing for my lynch if he truly thought I was Mafia... instead, he continued after the announcement. I shall repeat that u thought it was natural to consider jester interactions,which just drops my jaw as a townie. Mafia love pushing the theory that scum is some mastermind trying to be active and pulling strings. where as we all know better. game after game on team liquid has shown that scum are always most likely to try and control things behind the scenes. this whole game I have been transparent in my approach to finding antitown ; yet now u try and accuse me of being a scum mastermind..,, lol phagga just lol. u r the one that has been subtlely trying to steer things starting from the very beginning of the game when u tried to cock block the geript plan On August 09 2013 19:31 Mocsta wrote: Dude.. i dont understand whats going on here?? I thought what I wrote is clear, and i am *genuinely* struggling to understand where our communication breakdown is deriving from? I 100% agree that good play is: Antitown shouldnt be pushing who they think is the other antitown. Because of the shared win-con. Now, we all know Hapa is not adhering to this typical town meta, so the take is: he is antitown. Hence, what I am saying is that, Hapa as antitown, should not be pushing the other antitown. So who is Hapa pushing? Hes pushing me..and I know I am town. ================= Are we still on different pages? Looks like you have to compensate for something. Oats, geript, I don't know how you can read this guy town. I ask you to reconsider your read and vote with me. | ||
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phagga
Switzerland2194 Posts
On August 09 2013 23:38 geript wrote: No lie, when I started reading that case I was all: "that feels like a rally odd case for a townie to make" </3 Why? Weekend begins, my activity will drop heavily for the next 60 hours. | ||
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phagga
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On August 10 2013 10:14 Mocsta wrote: BTW I love 2 things about ohaggas case 1... he will now be afk for 60hrs lol 2.. he's so confident about his case that he didn't lay down a vote 1. I am not afk for 60 hours, just low activity. 2. My vote is on you for a long time already. Just more tries to discredit me with lies. Oats, you still think Mocsta is town? Do you think that the post I quoted earlier comes from a town mindset? What do you say About the points I raised? | ||
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