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On August 22 2013 06:56 justanothertownie wrote:
To Holys case: I don't think it is very good. It is based on slams actions (or on what slam didn't do) and not on Omnis. His scenario is possible though and some of the points he stated later were not bad.
If you take Holy's case in conjunction with mine earlier then you might be more convinced.
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On August 22 2013 06:53 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2013 06:45 DeusXmachina wrote:
Why are you guys arguing with Holy? I don't really see anyone discussing his case. If you don't think his case is valid, Omni, I would like to hear some reasons why. The fact of the matter is, Holy is one of the towniest members here. He was the first to make a big case against slam, and he was first to instigate the slam vote. This would be totally unnecessary as scum. So if you don't believe that Holy is scum, than believe that you are listening to a townie. His points are valid and he is doing legitimate scum hunting. Omni, you voted me, but I feel like you have not really built upon your first case against me. So what are some of your reasons for voting me, other than the ones you brought up in your first case, and the one shortly after?
One thing that Holy touched on, that I would like to reiterate: Why did not switch your vote to Slam if he was your number two read? When everyone switched off of me, I was in no danger of being lynched. Thus, your vote on my was pointless. Maybe I missed your response.
Tonight I am going to look into iV, mainly for my own reasons, I still need a little convincing before I make my vote. I promise to look at him with as little confirmation bias as I can muster. I have been trying to convince myself that it is possible he is scum, so that I can look at his filter objectively. Although, right now my gut says it's unlikely. It's good that you are here now. Those 2 were getting repetitive. So, who do you think is scum right now? Omni? I am eagerly awaiting your take on iV. Before you ask - I am not sure who the scum is right now.
Well Omni or iV. Right now I am leaning toward Omni. That might just be because he is trying to build a case against me. So tonight I will look at them both objectively.
I would say there is some light suspicion directed my way, which is fine. It puts me in the exciting position of being able to ignore it, as I know it is incorrect. So I can eliminate Holy, because it is very unlikely that he is scum, I can eliminate you because it is very unlikely that you are scum, and I can eliminate myself. I know that's obvious, but I am trying to communicate that it is most likely iV or Omni, and that is who I will focus on.
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Also if JAT flips scum, you guys owe me some serious sowwiezz.
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But I admit it's unlikely.
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+ Show Spoiler +On August 18 2013 07:39 OmniEulogy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 07:02 Koshi wrote:On August 18 2013 07:02 OmniEulogy wrote:
what's up guys. I'm almost completely caught up Yeah it took me 5 minutes as well. Hahahaha yeah, unfortunately what I'm really going over right now is the massive clusterfuck at the end of D1. I agree with you completely when you say that nobody should vote for a guy with literally 0 posts. Town should NEVER lynch the "easiest" target which it seems like they did... that's complete scum mentality. Town lynch the scummiest players not the easiest ones -.- ... I'm also really upset that three people didn't even vote which makes it even harder to sort it out. so far I think I'm pretty happy with my reads right now though I think Slam really sticks out to me as scummy for jumping around on his votes so much, even to the point of voting for Xzavier on two seperate occasions, however he has been one of the most consistant contributors in the game albeit very spammy. I'm getting a newbie town feeling from him and with the amount he's posting if he is scum it wont take long for him to slip. For that reason I'm ok with him currently. I've never played with Deus but people say he's an aggressive townie. I'm not seeing any of that from this game. He's been asking really bad fluff questions which would be easy for scum to imitate to pretend to be contributing, his vote on Xzavier and his reason behind it were terrible or rather his lack of a reason. Then after the lynch on Xzavier he goes after Holy for something he was fine before and even said he thought Holy was town for. I'd say out of all the players he's my top scum read right now. And then Holy votes for Xzavier as a "place holder" never to take his vote off him. Very scummy behavior considering he goes for the easy lynch, and a way to avoid needing to actually come up with a reason to vote for somebody. As far as town reads go I had a newbie town read on Reps and so in turn I believe Koshi is town. JAT is my strongest town read in the game at the moment slight town read on iVLosK! and the rest are all neutral as I still have to go through the filters again. I'd really like to know why Slam jumped his vote around so much asap and why the hell all three of you (Holy, Deus, Slam) thought it was a good idea to lynch Xzavier.
This is a post that I would point to as alignment indicative. It is his first in this game. Of the three candidates that he will focus on he focuses on Holy and Myself. At the time slam was not one of the best contributors, so this seems like a fake reason to "be ok with him currently". Another thing that really bugs me about this post, is when he says JAT is my strongest town read. I don't think JAT should have been anyone's strongest town read at this point in the game, unless you are scum and you know he is town.
JAT and Holy would you interpret this post in the same way? Anything else to point out? Is this alignment indicative?
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On August 22 2013 07:16 OmniEulogy wrote:
simply put Deus, I kept my vote on you because you are my strongest town read, as you say three people switched to Slam meaning my vote on him would have been truely pointless, I would rather keep my vote on my top scum read to let people know where I stand instead of jumping onto Slam with everybody else. I was prepared to switch but instead wrote what I did at the end of D2.
More on Deus, as I've said before I believe you trying to make Slam seem town while about to be lynched for the last hour, and him trying to keep you from being lynched by jumping off your wagon and trying to find somebody else to vote for is still very much a possibility. The only reason JAT has given me for that not being possible anymore is that it doesn't sound very believable that two scum were on the Xzavier lynch. You (Deus) didn't think even 1 scum was on the lynch and criticized me heavily for pushing it so hard when now obviously there was at least 1 scum on it.
The other possibility as JAT mentioned is that Slam jumped onto Xzavier in order to save LosK who still would have been lynched even with you joining Xzavier (as it would have been tied 2-2 with LosK coming down from 3 votes) so if LosK is scum, Slam would have had to move to save him.
Also sorry JAT I was going in circles with Holy till he decided to call it quits, which he never really did. Also Deus's meta is still relevant @Holy because he's still one of my scum reads. How dumb do you have to be to think Deus is cleared as town just because Slam flipped scum (And that is all that has happened since the time you were ready to lynch Deus btw)
Deus vanished after Slam was lynched after trying to convince us he was town for an hour as well. Not even a "well done town! thank's for keeping me alive for another cycle!" nothing. He has been soft defending Slam for most of D2 and it's quite possible that the scum team just decided to both vote on Xzavier at the end cause honestly who the hell would see that coming.
I do think I got a bit too wrapped up on Deus though, as thinking about it logically it would seem that LosK would be the scum buddy by looking at the D1 lynch and through the conversations between Slam and LosK + LosK's behavior in general has not helped town very much at all. D2 however imo points towards both Deus and LosK equally. As I said earlier, I haven't played this game anywhere near perfectly but that =/= playing like scum. I've pushed my reads, contributed to town discussion, tried to get others to contribute and even while Holy was pushing me he's doing things I said town should do to try and hunt scum. I've been playing this entire game for the purpose of catching and lynching scum and I think my obsession over the D1 Lynch and my push to get people to focus on the people involved on it was well placed.
So I agree with some points here. A lot of things you bring up about me are not alignment indicative. Just because I didn't say good job town after the lynch does not mean I am scum. Soft defending someone who I thought was genuinely town is not alignment indicative. Furthermore, you could interpret slam's vote on me and off of me as a way to get people to switch off of me, but that is unlikely.
I think you bring up some okay points about iV. I would be totally open to hearing a good case on him. I will make a case myself on him tonight. Based on my reads so far if I eliminate him as town than the only other possibility for scum would be you.
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On August 22 2013 07:26 OmniEulogy wrote:
JAT was by far the best player on town D1, at that point the three of you - Deus, Holy, and Slam, we're absolutely useless townies who voted for Xzavier, Lone had been fairly null for me, and LosK had been being LosK, there were three players who didn't vote, and Koshi wasn't in the game yet.
JAT was the best town player you had D1. If you think that's weird after the shit storm you idiots caused you need to check your heads. Mind you I believe it's quite likely two of you were scum so... equally dumb move.
Could you point me to some of the evidence behind this. I simply don't see it. My of the points that I brought up against JAT do not communicate scum or town, and I see that now. I could probably make a better case for lone being town day 1 than JAT. I think it is scummy to say you have a very strong town read on someone without offering any explanation. Scum can easily do that because they know who is town.
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On August 22 2013 07:30 OmniEulogy wrote:
look point of the matter is, if you think I'm scum go ahead and vote me, I'm flipping green if you do and then you're going to need to listen to what I'm telling you right now or you morons, and I'm pretty comfortable with calling you morons after the D1 lynch, are going to lose at LYLO.
@JAT I'm going through LosK's filter again now.
I am not going to vote you just yet because I acknowledge the possibility that you could be town.
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EBWOP* .Wtf. I meant to write most of the points. Sorry.
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On August 22 2013 07:22 DeusXmachina wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On August 18 2013 07:39 OmniEulogy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 07:02 Koshi wrote:On August 18 2013 07:02 OmniEulogy wrote:
what's up guys. I'm almost completely caught up Yeah it took me 5 minutes as well. Hahahaha yeah, unfortunately what I'm really going over right now is the massive clusterfuck at the end of D1. I agree with you completely when you say that nobody should vote for a guy with literally 0 posts. Town should NEVER lynch the "easiest" target which it seems like they did... that's complete scum mentality. Town lynch the scummiest players not the easiest ones -.- ... I'm also really upset that three people didn't even vote which makes it even harder to sort it out. so far I think I'm pretty happy with my reads right now though I think Slam really sticks out to me as scummy for jumping around on his votes so much, even to the point of voting for Xzavier on two seperate occasions, however he has been one of the most consistant contributors in the game albeit very spammy. I'm getting a newbie town feeling from him and with the amount he's posting if he is scum it wont take long for him to slip. For that reason I'm ok with him currently. I've never played with Deus but people say he's an aggressive townie. I'm not seeing any of that from this game. He's been asking really bad fluff questions which would be easy for scum to imitate to pretend to be contributing, his vote on Xzavier and his reason behind it were terrible or rather his lack of a reason. Then after the lynch on Xzavier he goes after Holy for something he was fine before and even said he thought Holy was town for. I'd say out of all the players he's my top scum read right now. And then Holy votes for Xzavier as a "place holder" never to take his vote off him. Very scummy behavior considering he goes for the easy lynch, and a way to avoid needing to actually come up with a reason to vote for somebody. As far as town reads go I had a newbie town read on Reps and so in turn I believe Koshi is town. JAT is my strongest town read in the game at the moment slight town read on iVLosK! and the rest are all neutral as I still have to go through the filters again. I'd really like to know why Slam jumped his vote around so much asap and why the hell all three of you (Holy, Deus, Slam) thought it was a good idea to lynch Xzavier. This is a post that I would point to as alignment indicative. It is his first in this game. Of the three candidates that he will focus on he focuses on Holy and Myself. At the time slam was not one of the best contributors, so this seems like a fake reason to "be ok with him currently". Another thing that really bugs me about this post, is when he says JAT is my strongest town read. I don't think JAT should have been anyone's strongest town read at this point in the game, unless you are scum and you know he is town. JAT and Holy would you interpret this post in the same way? Anything else to point out? Is this alignment indicative?
Omni would you mind commenting on this? What were some of the contributions that caused you to overlook slam and focus on myself and holy?
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On August 22 2013 07:39 Holyflare wrote:
think of it this way, who would slam say in the qt would be the people to target? Me and you...
It might have been the only option. He probably would not have said to target iV because he recently pulled his vote off of him. Also if you consider that fact the slam voted iV day 1, that means it's highly unlikely iV is scum. Why would a scum want to bus his teammate day 1.
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On August 22 2013 07:42 OmniEulogy wrote:I was an observer during d1 so I might have been seeing things slightly differently than people actually playing the game / dealing with the emotions of trying to get through D1 and find scum with virtually nothing to go on but I felt like JAT was as I said before just... talking like a townie lol he seems inexperienced sure, we all are but he plays a LOT like most of the quiet townies I've played with who end up giving pretty good contributions and are there to bounce idea's off of and then come up with a case once or twice a day, which JAT had done pretty much as I would have expected of him if he was town. This is why he's kept his status as a townie for me. posts like these I liked from him Show nested quote +On August 17 2013 01:30 justanothertownie wrote:
Not really. I didn't like some posts from Deus and the first one of Squibbles that much but this won't tell me anything. I'm just not a fan of this rather pointless policy discussions. People can talk alot about these things without adding any useful content.
I won't read to much into early contentless posts though. Bad experience last game.
Show nested quote +On August 17 2013 21:19 justanothertownie wrote:
I will be here most of the time until the deadline btw. so if anyone wants to discuss something with me go ahead. I will read some filters right now because I think I caught something on the last pages (have to make sure). He gave me the feeling of a townie who wanted to talk to people, try to open the game up and possibly scum hunt although he wasn't going to jump on anybody because of their first few posts. To me this is creating a town atmosphere which is something scum will never try to create. So I came into the game expecting JAT to be town unless he started to do some really strange things, which he never did imo.
Your experience in the obs qt could have definately influenced your reads on JAT. However, you didn't back up your town reads when you said them. This would have benefited town. Also giving reads early on can be a great way to generate discussion. Case in point, Holy stance against iV.
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On August 22 2013 07:45 Holyflare wrote:
yeh but who would slam tell him to target first? my reads in the first day last game were all the scum team, he 'might' try and tell him to pressure me into looking scummy first
It's possible. How come slam did not try and pressure you though?
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On August 22 2013 07:48 OmniEulogy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2013 07:35 DeusXmachina wrote:On August 22 2013 07:22 DeusXmachina wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On August 18 2013 07:39 OmniEulogy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 07:02 Koshi wrote:On August 18 2013 07:02 OmniEulogy wrote:
what's up guys. I'm almost completely caught up Yeah it took me 5 minutes as well. Hahahaha yeah, unfortunately what I'm really going over right now is the massive clusterfuck at the end of D1. I agree with you completely when you say that nobody should vote for a guy with literally 0 posts. Town should NEVER lynch the "easiest" target which it seems like they did... that's complete scum mentality. Town lynch the scummiest players not the easiest ones -.- ... I'm also really upset that three people didn't even vote which makes it even harder to sort it out. so far I think I'm pretty happy with my reads right now though I think Slam really sticks out to me as scummy for jumping around on his votes so much, even to the point of voting for Xzavier on two seperate occasions, however he has been one of the most consistant contributors in the game albeit very spammy. I'm getting a newbie town feeling from him and with the amount he's posting if he is scum it wont take long for him to slip. For that reason I'm ok with him currently. I've never played with Deus but people say he's an aggressive townie. I'm not seeing any of that from this game. He's been asking really bad fluff questions which would be easy for scum to imitate to pretend to be contributing, his vote on Xzavier and his reason behind it were terrible or rather his lack of a reason. Then after the lynch on Xzavier he goes after Holy for something he was fine before and even said he thought Holy was town for. I'd say out of all the players he's my top scum read right now. And then Holy votes for Xzavier as a "place holder" never to take his vote off him. Very scummy behavior considering he goes for the easy lynch, and a way to avoid needing to actually come up with a reason to vote for somebody. As far as town reads go I had a newbie town read on Reps and so in turn I believe Koshi is town. JAT is my strongest town read in the game at the moment slight town read on iVLosK! and the rest are all neutral as I still have to go through the filters again. I'd really like to know why Slam jumped his vote around so much asap and why the hell all three of you (Holy, Deus, Slam) thought it was a good idea to lynch Xzavier. This is a post that I would point to as alignment indicative. It is his first in this game. Of the three candidates that he will focus on he focuses on Holy and Myself. At the time slam was not one of the best contributors, so this seems like a fake reason to "be ok with him currently". Another thing that really bugs me about this post, is when he says JAT is my strongest town read. I don't think JAT should have been anyone's strongest town read at this point in the game, unless you are scum and you know he is town. JAT and Holy would you interpret this post in the same way? Anything else to point out? Is this alignment indicative? Omni would you mind commenting on this? What were some of the contributions that caused you to overlook slam and focus on myself and holy? Holy because his vote was unique out of the three of you and I wanted to start with the xZavier lynch and build off it to catch scum, Holy's vote was very noticeable because of how it was placed, and then he went on to claim he was looking for the "safe" place to put his vote. That's a word town doesn't use while placing votes, and can sometimes be a scum slip. I then went after you because before I made Holy's case I had said you were my strongest scum read, with Holy answering me fairly well I let him drop although I was and still am suspicious of him and focused on you, JAT made his case, I followed up and then continued to push for your lynch through D2. Slam was a close 2nd but because he left for half of D2 I continued to pressure you as Slam wouldn't have been able to answer anything I asked him. (And he never did)
So are you saying it was by a process of elimination. You thought that Holy and I were better targets so you focused on us. Then why did you say he was one of the most constant contributors (because he wasn't)?
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On August 22 2013 07:50 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2013 07:49 DeusXmachina wrote:On August 22 2013 07:45 Holyflare wrote:
yeh but who would slam tell him to target first? my reads in the first day last game were all the scum team, he 'might' try and tell him to pressure me into looking scummy first It's possible. How come slam did not try and pressure you though? disassociation obviously
Then why did he pressure me? lol
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On August 22 2013 07:48 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2013 07:43 DeusXmachina wrote:On August 22 2013 07:39 Holyflare wrote:
think of it this way, who would slam say in the qt would be the people to target? Me and you... It might have been the only option. He probably would not have said to target iV because he recently pulled his vote off of him. Also if you consider that fact the slam voted iV day 1, that means it's highly unlikely iV is scum. Why would a scum want to bus his teammate day 1. That's not wrong but it's a bit more complicated than that. Slam just mentioned in his special way that iV would be the best lynch at some point in time. He could have changed this read anytime if it weren't for Lone and me who voted iV immediately after that.
Well that would be extremely risky considering how easily the votes could have changed, and were changing at that point.
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On August 22 2013 07:53 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2013 07:52 DeusXmachina wrote:On August 22 2013 07:50 Holyflare wrote:On August 22 2013 07:49 DeusXmachina wrote:On August 22 2013 07:45 Holyflare wrote:
yeh but who would slam tell him to target first? my reads in the first day last game were all the scum team, he 'might' try and tell him to pressure me into looking scummy first It's possible. How come slam did not try and pressure you though? disassociation obviously Then why did he pressure me? lol because the rest of the town did
Ok makes sense.
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On August 22 2013 07:54 OmniEulogy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2013 07:52 DeusXmachina wrote:On August 22 2013 07:48 OmniEulogy wrote:On August 22 2013 07:35 DeusXmachina wrote:On August 22 2013 07:22 DeusXmachina wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On August 18 2013 07:39 OmniEulogy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 07:02 Koshi wrote:On August 18 2013 07:02 OmniEulogy wrote:
what's up guys. I'm almost completely caught up Yeah it took me 5 minutes as well. Hahahaha yeah, unfortunately what I'm really going over right now is the massive clusterfuck at the end of D1. I agree with you completely when you say that nobody should vote for a guy with literally 0 posts. Town should NEVER lynch the "easiest" target which it seems like they did... that's complete scum mentality. Town lynch the scummiest players not the easiest ones -.- ... I'm also really upset that three people didn't even vote which makes it even harder to sort it out. so far I think I'm pretty happy with my reads right now though I think Slam really sticks out to me as scummy for jumping around on his votes so much, even to the point of voting for Xzavier on two seperate occasions, however he has been one of the most consistant contributors in the game albeit very spammy. I'm getting a newbie town feeling from him and with the amount he's posting if he is scum it wont take long for him to slip. For that reason I'm ok with him currently. I've never played with Deus but people say he's an aggressive townie. I'm not seeing any of that from this game. He's been asking really bad fluff questions which would be easy for scum to imitate to pretend to be contributing, his vote on Xzavier and his reason behind it were terrible or rather his lack of a reason. Then after the lynch on Xzavier he goes after Holy for something he was fine before and even said he thought Holy was town for. I'd say out of all the players he's my top scum read right now. And then Holy votes for Xzavier as a "place holder" never to take his vote off him. Very scummy behavior considering he goes for the easy lynch, and a way to avoid needing to actually come up with a reason to vote for somebody. As far as town reads go I had a newbie town read on Reps and so in turn I believe Koshi is town. JAT is my strongest town read in the game at the moment slight town read on iVLosK! and the rest are all neutral as I still have to go through the filters again. I'd really like to know why Slam jumped his vote around so much asap and why the hell all three of you (Holy, Deus, Slam) thought it was a good idea to lynch Xzavier. This is a post that I would point to as alignment indicative. It is his first in this game. Of the three candidates that he will focus on he focuses on Holy and Myself. At the time slam was not one of the best contributors, so this seems like a fake reason to "be ok with him currently". Another thing that really bugs me about this post, is when he says JAT is my strongest town read. I don't think JAT should have been anyone's strongest town read at this point in the game, unless you are scum and you know he is town. JAT and Holy would you interpret this post in the same way? Anything else to point out? Is this alignment indicative? Omni would you mind commenting on this? What were some of the contributions that caused you to overlook slam and focus on myself and holy? Holy because his vote was unique out of the three of you and I wanted to start with the xZavier lynch and build off it to catch scum, Holy's vote was very noticeable because of how it was placed, and then he went on to claim he was looking for the "safe" place to put his vote. That's a word town doesn't use while placing votes, and can sometimes be a scum slip. I then went after you because before I made Holy's case I had said you were my strongest scum read, with Holy answering me fairly well I let him drop although I was and still am suspicious of him and focused on you, JAT made his case, I followed up and then continued to push for your lynch through D2. Slam was a close 2nd but because he left for half of D2 I continued to pressure you as Slam wouldn't have been able to answer anything I asked him. (And he never did) So are you saying it was by a process of elimination. You thought that Holy and I were better targets so you focused on us. Then why did you say he was one of the most constant contributors (because he wasn't)? contribution in the sense of activity out of the three of you, the more scum talks the more likely they are to screw up, and he talked a lot. I still said he was scummy and should be looked at as the other option besides you for the D2 lynch for... the entire day.
activity is not alignment indicative. It still seems like you ignored slam without a valid reason. In the last newbie game a player named Umasi had the second longest filter and he was scum. Slam had the longest filter and he was town. That being said, if slam cut down on his activity heavily it would have looked very suspicious.
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Umm let me rephrase that. Activity can be alignment indicative. I just don't think it was so in this case, and especially in slam's case.
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On August 22 2013 07:59 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2013 07:57 OmniEulogy wrote:
clearly the guy you voted for right? lol would rather have sex than change my vote, ty
Lucky bastard.
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EPT
