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Why are you guys arguing with Holy? I don't really see anyone discussing his case. If you don't think his case is valid, Omni, I would like to hear some reasons why. The fact of the matter is, Holy is one of the towniest members here. He was the first to make a big case against slam, and he was first to instigate the slam vote. This would be totally unnecessary as scum. So if you don't believe that Holy is scum, than believe that you are listening to a townie. His points are valid and he is doing legitimate scum hunting. Omni, you voted me, but I feel like you have not really built upon your first case against me. So what are some of your reasons for voting me, other than the ones you brought up in your first case, and the one shortly after?
One thing that Holy touched on, that I would like to reiterate: Why did not switch your vote to Slam if he was your number two read? When everyone switched off of me, I was in no danger of being lynched. Thus, your vote on my was pointless. Maybe I missed your response.
Tonight I am going to look into iV, mainly for my own reasons, I still need a little convincing before I make my vote. I promise to look at him with as little confirmation bias as I can muster. I have been trying to convince myself that it is possible he is scum, so that I can look at his filter objectively. Although, right now my gut says it's unlikely.
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On August 22 2013 06:45 DeusXmachina wrote:
Why are you guys arguing with Holy? I don't really see anyone discussing his case. If you don't think his case is valid, Omni, I would like to hear some reasons why. The fact of the matter is, Holy is one of the towniest members here. He was the first to make a big case against slam, and he was first to instigate the slam vote. This would be totally unnecessary as scum. So if you don't believe that Holy is scum, than believe that you are listening to a townie. His points are valid and he is doing legitimate scum hunting. Omni, you voted me, but I feel like you have not really built upon your first case against me. So what are some of your reasons for voting me, other than the ones you brought up in your first case, and the one shortly after?
One thing that Holy touched on, that I would like to reiterate: Why did not switch your vote to Slam if he was your number two read? When everyone switched off of me, I was in no danger of being lynched. Thus, your vote on my was pointless. Maybe I missed your response.
Tonight I am going to look into iV, mainly for my own reasons, I still need a little convincing before I make my vote. I promise to look at him with as little confirmation bias as I can muster. I have been trying to convince myself that it is possible he is scum, so that I can look at his filter objectively. Although, right now my gut says it's unlikely.
It's good that you are here now. Those 2 were getting repetitive.
So, who do you think is scum right now? Omni? I am eagerly awaiting your take on iV.
Before you ask - I am not sure who the scum is right now.
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To Holys case: I don't think it is very good. It is based on slams actions (or on what slam didn't do) and not on Omnis. His scenario is possible though and some of the points he stated later were not bad.
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On August 22 2013 02:59 OmniEulogy wrote:
So I feel like things are fairly obvious at the moment for who to go after.
I think we've got this in the bag town, LosK or Deus are most likely the last scum. Deus' soft defending of Slam all game and his attempt and convincing us Slam was town as he was being lynched, who could have seen in the last 3~ minutes the votes changing and Slam getting lynched because he would make yet another terrible vote. As has been said before, Why would you bus your power role scum buddy? Slam seemed to be trying to get votes off of Deus as well with his voting on and off him, possibly hoping the two votes that ended up on Lone would be enough.
Alternatively we have LosK who I believed to be leaning town this game up to the Slam lynch. His vote on Lone was strange given everything that has happened, Slam and LosK have had conversations with each other that have had absolutely nothing to do with anything and my previous assumption that scum wouldn't play so ballsy may have been off the mark. It seems like he genuinely just doesn't care too much which makes it very possible for him to be our last scum.
JAT still town!
LoneMeow also very likely town.
Holy is now neutral for me. I no longer believe he is scum due to the two other possibilities.
I just want to point out that I was clearly not trying to convince you guys slam was town. The only thing I said that could be interpreted in that regard was, "I will not bus a fellow townie for my own benefit." That was in response to being pressured to vote switch off of JAT to slam. Lets consider my actions from both a scum perspective and a town perspective.
Town first: I genuinely thought Slam was town, and expressed that many times. A large part of the arguments against him were because of his Xzavier vote. Similar arguments could be made against me and I am town. Like a said before, many times, I do not think the Xzavier lynch gave us concrete information. It was not alignment indicative. Instead, the best attack on Slam was Holy's case against him. I also firmly expressed that I thought JAT was scum so I pursued JAT. Last minute I did not switch my vote because I was so caught up on JAT and believed Slam to be town.
Scum: Both Slam and I massively fucked up on the Xzavier lynch. We both saw an opportunity to lynch a townie and in the minutes before the lynch we both came to the conclusion that it would be best to lynch a townie, disregarding any connections that this might insinuate. Alakaslam decided he would bus me by voting me, yet decided to vote another townie instead. I defended Slam and chose not to bus him, again disregarding any connections that this might insinuate. Slam decided he would not help me on my case with JAT and instead voted Lone, an unlikely candidate for lynching.
If you consider the two situations objectively, I think it becomes increasingly clear that I made my choices as a townie, however bad they might have been.
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On August 22 2013 06:56 justanothertownie wrote:
To Holys case: I don't think it is very good. It is based on slams actions (or on what slam didn't do) and not on Omnis. His scenario is possible though and some of the points he stated later were not bad.
If you take Holy's case in conjunction with mine earlier then you might be more convinced.
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On August 22 2013 06:53 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2013 06:45 DeusXmachina wrote:
Why are you guys arguing with Holy? I don't really see anyone discussing his case. If you don't think his case is valid, Omni, I would like to hear some reasons why. The fact of the matter is, Holy is one of the towniest members here. He was the first to make a big case against slam, and he was first to instigate the slam vote. This would be totally unnecessary as scum. So if you don't believe that Holy is scum, than believe that you are listening to a townie. His points are valid and he is doing legitimate scum hunting. Omni, you voted me, but I feel like you have not really built upon your first case against me. So what are some of your reasons for voting me, other than the ones you brought up in your first case, and the one shortly after?
One thing that Holy touched on, that I would like to reiterate: Why did not switch your vote to Slam if he was your number two read? When everyone switched off of me, I was in no danger of being lynched. Thus, your vote on my was pointless. Maybe I missed your response.
Tonight I am going to look into iV, mainly for my own reasons, I still need a little convincing before I make my vote. I promise to look at him with as little confirmation bias as I can muster. I have been trying to convince myself that it is possible he is scum, so that I can look at his filter objectively. Although, right now my gut says it's unlikely. It's good that you are here now. Those 2 were getting repetitive. So, who do you think is scum right now? Omni? I am eagerly awaiting your take on iV. Before you ask - I am not sure who the scum is right now.
Well Omni or iV. Right now I am leaning toward Omni. That might just be because he is trying to build a case against me. So tonight I will look at them both objectively.
I would say there is some light suspicion directed my way, which is fine. It puts me in the exciting position of being able to ignore it, as I know it is incorrect. So I can eliminate Holy, because it is very unlikely that he is scum, I can eliminate you because it is very unlikely that you are scum, and I can eliminate myself. I know that's obvious, but I am trying to communicate that it is most likely iV or Omni, and that is who I will focus on.
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Also if JAT flips scum, you guys owe me some serious sowwiezz.
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But I admit it's unlikely.
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simply put Deus, I kept my vote on you because you are my strongest town read, as you say three people switched to Slam meaning my vote on him would have been truely pointless, I would rather keep my vote on my top scum read to let people know where I stand instead of jumping onto Slam with everybody else. I was prepared to switch but instead wrote what I did at the end of D2.
More on Deus, as I've said before I believe you trying to make Slam seem town while about to be lynched for the last hour, and him trying to keep you from being lynched by jumping off your wagon and trying to find somebody else to vote for is still very much a possibility. The only reason JAT has given me for that not being possible anymore is that it doesn't sound very believable that two scum were on the Xzavier lynch. You (Deus) didn't think even 1 scum was on the lynch and criticized me heavily for pushing it so hard when now obviously there was at least 1 scum on it.
The other possibility as JAT mentioned is that Slam jumped onto Xzavier in order to save LosK who still would have been lynched even with you joining Xzavier (as it would have been tied 2-2 with LosK coming down from 3 votes) so if LosK is scum, Slam would have had to move to save him.
Also sorry JAT I was going in circles with Holy till he decided to call it quits, which he never really did. Also Deus's meta is still relevant @Holy because he's still one of my scum reads. How dumb do you have to be to think Deus is cleared as town just because Slam flipped scum (And that is all that has happened since the time you were ready to lynch Deus btw)
Deus vanished after Slam was lynched after trying to convince us he was town for an hour as well. Not even a "well done town! thank's for keeping me alive for another cycle!" nothing. He has been soft defending Slam for most of D2 and it's quite possible that the scum team just decided to both vote on Xzavier at the end cause honestly who the hell would see that coming.
I do think I got a bit too wrapped up on Deus though, as thinking about it logically it would seem that LosK would be the scum buddy by looking at the D1 lynch and through the conversations between Slam and LosK + LosK's behavior in general has not helped town very much at all. D2 however imo points towards both Deus and LosK equally. As I said earlier, I haven't played this game anywhere near perfectly but that =/= playing like scum. I've pushed my reads, contributed to town discussion, tried to get others to contribute and even while Holy was pushing me he's doing things I said town should do to try and hunt scum. I've been playing this entire game for the purpose of catching and lynching scum and I think my obsession over the D1 Lynch and my push to get people to focus on the people involved on it was well placed.
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scum read* not town read. edited way too much during writing that lol
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
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+ Show Spoiler +On August 18 2013 07:39 OmniEulogy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 07:02 Koshi wrote:On August 18 2013 07:02 OmniEulogy wrote:
what's up guys. I'm almost completely caught up Yeah it took me 5 minutes as well. Hahahaha yeah, unfortunately what I'm really going over right now is the massive clusterfuck at the end of D1. I agree with you completely when you say that nobody should vote for a guy with literally 0 posts. Town should NEVER lynch the "easiest" target which it seems like they did... that's complete scum mentality. Town lynch the scummiest players not the easiest ones -.- ... I'm also really upset that three people didn't even vote which makes it even harder to sort it out. so far I think I'm pretty happy with my reads right now though I think Slam really sticks out to me as scummy for jumping around on his votes so much, even to the point of voting for Xzavier on two seperate occasions, however he has been one of the most consistant contributors in the game albeit very spammy. I'm getting a newbie town feeling from him and with the amount he's posting if he is scum it wont take long for him to slip. For that reason I'm ok with him currently. I've never played with Deus but people say he's an aggressive townie. I'm not seeing any of that from this game. He's been asking really bad fluff questions which would be easy for scum to imitate to pretend to be contributing, his vote on Xzavier and his reason behind it were terrible or rather his lack of a reason. Then after the lynch on Xzavier he goes after Holy for something he was fine before and even said he thought Holy was town for. I'd say out of all the players he's my top scum read right now. And then Holy votes for Xzavier as a "place holder" never to take his vote off him. Very scummy behavior considering he goes for the easy lynch, and a way to avoid needing to actually come up with a reason to vote for somebody. As far as town reads go I had a newbie town read on Reps and so in turn I believe Koshi is town. JAT is my strongest town read in the game at the moment slight town read on iVLosK! and the rest are all neutral as I still have to go through the filters again. I'd really like to know why Slam jumped his vote around so much asap and why the hell all three of you (Holy, Deus, Slam) thought it was a good idea to lynch Xzavier.
This is a post that I would point to as alignment indicative. It is his first in this game. Of the three candidates that he will focus on he focuses on Holy and Myself. At the time slam was not one of the best contributors, so this seems like a fake reason to "be ok with him currently". Another thing that really bugs me about this post, is when he says JAT is my strongest town read. I don't think JAT should have been anyone's strongest town read at this point in the game, unless you are scum and you know he is town.
JAT and Holy would you interpret this post in the same way? Anything else to point out? Is this alignment indicative?
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On August 22 2013 07:19 Holyflare wrote:
nice try scum slipper
<3 holy but accidentally not changing "he's nowhere near a town read" to "he's my strongest scum read" and then not deleting the whole sentence when rewriting it and then adding things to different paragraphs will do that to you.
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JAT was by far the best player on town D1, at that point the three of you - Deus, Holy, and Slam, we're absolutely useless townies who voted for Xzavier, Lone had been fairly null for me, and LosK had been being LosK, there were three players who didn't vote, and Koshi wasn't in the game yet.
JAT was the best town player you had D1. If you think that's weird after the shit storm you idiots caused you need to check your heads. Mind you I believe it's quite likely two of you were scum so... equally dumb move.
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On August 22 2013 07:16 OmniEulogy wrote:
simply put Deus, I kept my vote on you because you are my strongest town read, as you say three people switched to Slam meaning my vote on him would have been truely pointless, I would rather keep my vote on my top scum read to let people know where I stand instead of jumping onto Slam with everybody else. I was prepared to switch but instead wrote what I did at the end of D2.
More on Deus, as I've said before I believe you trying to make Slam seem town while about to be lynched for the last hour, and him trying to keep you from being lynched by jumping off your wagon and trying to find somebody else to vote for is still very much a possibility. The only reason JAT has given me for that not being possible anymore is that it doesn't sound very believable that two scum were on the Xzavier lynch. You (Deus) didn't think even 1 scum was on the lynch and criticized me heavily for pushing it so hard when now obviously there was at least 1 scum on it.
The other possibility as JAT mentioned is that Slam jumped onto Xzavier in order to save LosK who still would have been lynched even with you joining Xzavier (as it would have been tied 2-2 with LosK coming down from 3 votes) so if LosK is scum, Slam would have had to move to save him.
Also sorry JAT I was going in circles with Holy till he decided to call it quits, which he never really did. Also Deus's meta is still relevant @Holy because he's still one of my scum reads. How dumb do you have to be to think Deus is cleared as town just because Slam flipped scum (And that is all that has happened since the time you were ready to lynch Deus btw)
Deus vanished after Slam was lynched after trying to convince us he was town for an hour as well. Not even a "well done town! thank's for keeping me alive for another cycle!" nothing. He has been soft defending Slam for most of D2 and it's quite possible that the scum team just decided to both vote on Xzavier at the end cause honestly who the hell would see that coming.
I do think I got a bit too wrapped up on Deus though, as thinking about it logically it would seem that LosK would be the scum buddy by looking at the D1 lynch and through the conversations between Slam and LosK + LosK's behavior in general has not helped town very much at all. D2 however imo points towards both Deus and LosK equally. As I said earlier, I haven't played this game anywhere near perfectly but that =/= playing like scum. I've pushed my reads, contributed to town discussion, tried to get others to contribute and even while Holy was pushing me he's doing things I said town should do to try and hunt scum. I've been playing this entire game for the purpose of catching and lynching scum and I think my obsession over the D1 Lynch and my push to get people to focus on the people involved on it was well placed.
So I agree with some points here. A lot of things you bring up about me are not alignment indicative. Just because I didn't say good job town after the lynch does not mean I am scum. Soft defending someone who I thought was genuinely town is not alignment indicative. Furthermore, you could interpret slam's vote on me and off of me as a way to get people to switch off of me, but that is unlikely.
I think you bring up some okay points about iV. I would be totally open to hearing a good case on him. I will make a case myself on him tonight. Based on my reads so far if I eliminate him as town than the only other possibility for scum would be you.
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look point of the matter is, if you think I'm scum go ahead and vote me, I'm flipping green if you do and then you're going to need to listen to what I'm telling you right now or you morons, and I'm pretty comfortable with calling you morons after the D1 lynch, are going to lose at LYLO.
@JAT I'm going through LosK's filter again now.
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On August 22 2013 07:26 OmniEulogy wrote:
JAT was by far the best player on town D1, at that point the three of you - Deus, Holy, and Slam, we're absolutely useless townies who voted for Xzavier, Lone had been fairly null for me, and LosK had been being LosK, there were three players who didn't vote, and Koshi wasn't in the game yet.
JAT was the best town player you had D1. If you think that's weird after the shit storm you idiots caused you need to check your heads. Mind you I believe it's quite likely two of you were scum so... equally dumb move.
Could you point me to some of the evidence behind this. I simply don't see it. My of the points that I brought up against JAT do not communicate scum or town, and I see that now. I could probably make a better case for lone being town day 1 than JAT. I think it is scummy to say you have a very strong town read on someone without offering any explanation. Scum can easily do that because they know who is town.
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On August 22 2013 07:30 OmniEulogy wrote:
look point of the matter is, if you think I'm scum go ahead and vote me, I'm flipping green if you do and then you're going to need to listen to what I'm telling you right now or you morons, and I'm pretty comfortable with calling you morons after the D1 lynch, are going to lose at LYLO.
@JAT I'm going through LosK's filter again now.
I am not going to vote you just yet because I acknowledge the possibility that you could be town.
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EBWOP* .Wtf. I meant to write most of the points. Sorry.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
+ Show Spoiler +On August 22 2013 07:16 OmniEulogy wrote:
simply put Deus, I kept my vote on you because you are my strongest town read, as you say three people switched to Slam meaning my vote on him would have been truely pointless, I would rather keep my vote on my top scum read to let people know where I stand instead of jumping onto Slam with everybody else. I was prepared to switch but instead wrote what I did at the end of D2.
More on Deus, as I've said before I believe you trying to make Slam seem town while about to be lynched for the last hour, and him trying to keep you from being lynched by jumping off your wagon and trying to find somebody else to vote for is still very much a possibility. The only reason JAT has given me for that not being possible anymore is that it doesn't sound very believable that two scum were on the Xzavier lynch. You (Deus) didn't think even 1 scum was on the lynch and criticized me heavily for pushing it so hard when now obviously there was at least 1 scum on it.
The other possibility as JAT mentioned is that Slam jumped onto Xzavier in order to save LosK who still would have been lynched even with you joining Xzavier (as it would have been tied 2-2 with LosK coming down from 3 votes) so if LosK is scum, Slam would have had to move to save him.
Also sorry JAT I was going in circles with Holy till he decided to call it quits, which he never really did. Also Deus's meta is still relevant @Holy because he's still one of my scum reads. How dumb do you have to be to think Deus is cleared as town just because Slam flipped scum (And that is all that has happened since the time you were ready to lynch Deus btw)
Deus vanished after Slam was lynched after trying to convince us he was town for an hour as well. Not even a "well done town! thank's for keeping me alive for another cycle!" nothing. He has been soft defending Slam for most of D2 and it's quite possible that the scum team just decided to both vote on Xzavier at the end cause honestly who the hell would see that coming.
I do think I got a bit too wrapped up on Deus though, as thinking about it logically it would seem that LosK would be the scum buddy by looking at the D1 lynch and through the conversations between Slam and LosK + LosK's behavior in general has not helped town very much at all. D2 however imo points towards both Deus and LosK equally. As I said earlier, I haven't played this game anywhere near perfectly but that =/= playing like scum. I've pushed my reads, contributed to town discussion, tried to get others to contribute and even while Holy was pushing me he's doing things I said town should do to try and hunt scum. I've been playing this entire game for the purpose of catching and lynching scum and I think my obsession over the D1 Lynch and my push to get people to focus on the people involved on it was well placed.
This is easy, he just scum slipped. Let's get this over with.
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