TL Mafia LXII: TL Noir

On September 12 2013 05:15 strongandbig wrote:
also no goon game pretty sweet for mafia

On September 13 2013 11:00 justanothertownie wrote:
But how long would we have to wait?
And what about this?

On September 17 2013 18:42 marvellosity wrote:


That sounds like the worst thing ever. I'm ever so slowly moving into the less is more camp.

On September 17 2013 21:09 LoneMeow wrote:


Has anyone ever been policy lynched for lurking or spamming on TL?

On September 18 2013 23:45 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:


Quick! We need 300 pages by Sunday so even if MZ mod kills half the crowd there will be enough to hit 500

On September 19 2013 02:20 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I am not going to spam, i'll post less when there is a fuckton of players. Works far better for me.
Mini's are an exception where i can actually analyze everyone for their behavior/interactions with me.

On September 20 2013 19:43 raynpelikoneet wrote:

If i am a dayvigi, i'll shoot Koshi right atthe game start. Just because he has waited too hard.

On September 20 2013 19:33 Dandel Ion wrote:

there always is.

On September 21 2013 05:48 FirmTofu wrote:

Seconded.

On September 21 2013 07:09 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:


Simply +1

On September 21 2013 11:06 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I DIDN'T Read!
##Vote: Koshi!

On September 21 2013 11:08 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Koshi are tou my town bro or scum bro?
This is important! THSISI S O MIPORTANT!

On September 21 2013 11:08 VisceraEyes wrote:
Yes. This is an opening to a game. Nothing but townclaims.

Everyone who has posted is in my CIRCLE OF TRUST. I am approximately 86% sure that everyone who has posted above me is town, INCLUDING anyone who's posted between the time of writing this and the time of posting it.

So yous guys - you're gonna help me find scum amongst e'rybudy else.

Are you ready?

On September 21 2013 12:04 WaveofShadow wrote:
Apparently Voice mafia isn't happening tonight so here I am!
Except I have absolutely no desire to sift through this shitfest.
Quick someone say something I care about!

On September 21 2013 12:11 DarthPunk wrote:

How is it idiotic? Two people going at each other usually leads to heaps of information by which you can make really solid reads. Don't see how it is idiotic.

But I don't think it is necessary anymore regardless. You both seem pretty townie to me.

On September 21 2013 12:18 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Okay. I wanna try somehing this game.
Let's scumhunt as a team ok?
In case you are scum, you'll fuck up at some point, in case i am scum, i'll fuck up at some point.
In case we are both town, HALLELUJAH!

On September 21 2013 12:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Are you afraid of something?

On September 21 2013 22:46 Mocsta wrote:

Right...

So lets get you useful.

Is Geript scum?

On September 21 2013 22:51 Mocsta wrote:

yeah OK, more stuff that means nothing. That was a different game.

You know; i have seen you replace in as town, and your game play was very different to what you are doing now.
Day1 spaztic mode is over.

So lets try again, one more time. - cos you didn't give a definitive answer on where you stand.

Read on Geript.
Then
Read on WaveofShadow.

On September 21 2013 23:01 Mocsta wrote:

Case(s) ??? i thought he made one case based on DPs second post of the game?
Why is making cases alignment indicative? Are you content with the cases? => Do you think DP is scum?

So why is flinging shit at VE for not goign to bed, alignment indicative?

On September 21 2013 23:08 Mocsta wrote:

Have you turned a new leaf or something?

Since when do you care as town?

On September 21 2013 23:08 Mocsta wrote:

Why is making cases alignment indicative?

On September 21 2013 23:35 Mocsta wrote:

No you came back into the thread, and ignored the entire whirlwind of Geript/DP to want to lynch me because of "special posts"..


Disagree.
You are making some sort of connection for him being town.

---

I will leave this alone for a little though. Technically, you did answer the questions, regardless of whether it satisfies me.

---

---

Kush has been banned before for abusing rules. Hes the last person i would expect to give a shit about others doing the same. + last game I replaced into where kush was scum, IIRC he tried to get me modkilled ASAP as well. I just dont see a town kush giving a shit about stuff like that. Personal heuristic.

Regardless, I voted wave of shadow yonks ago.

I got no new questions. Need more ppl to come back into the thread.

On September 21 2013 23:01 Mocsta wrote:

Kush; indulge me.

Why did you want me modkilled, along with pandain.

On September 22 2013 01:37 kushm4sta wrote:
voice mafia never again

On September 22 2013 01:39 Mattchew wrote:
i have opened zaragon, mocsta, raynpelikoneet and lone meow's filters

On September 22 2013 06:58 justanothertownie wrote:

And you think that makes him stop? I am not so sure. You know that he just didn't give a fuck in titanic too and he was town there sadly...

On September 22 2013 07:10 VisceraEyes wrote:
I might regret this, but does anyone have any like...previous games of Lone's I can peruse?

On September 22 2013 06:55 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Koshi why did you vote for Mocsta in the first place?

On September 22 2013 07:12 VisceraEyes wrote:
Just names would suffice - I'm not above doing the legwork. I just am not familiar with his typical play. I'm hung up right now because his tenacity on the Pandain vote reads kinda more townie than scummy in a vacuum...but his refusal to comment on like anything else is very troubling to me.

On September 22 2013 07:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Special in what way? What's scummy in that? And is he not special any more?

On September 22 2013 07:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Special in what way? What's scummy in that? And is he not special any more?

On September 22 2013 07:21 raynpelikoneet wrote:

How does Vayne's posts make him scum? There are only two posts of his in this game.

On September 22 2013 08:10 raynpelikoneet wrote:

lynch.

On September 22 2013 08:15 marvellosity wrote:


This game is too large to play games like this imo. I don't know why you'd even try. Since when do people massively bandwagon someone for roleplaying a post?

Just weird Koshi.

On September 22 2013 08:35 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:


wat

On September 23 2013 00:29 marvellosity wrote:
Koshi, could you tell me what you make of rayn's push on you? Is it warranted? Do you think town-rayn would be able to distinguish from your... lower activity let's say this game compared to normal, and distinguish town/mafia?

On September 23 2013 00:53 marvellosity wrote:


Are you not transparent because of your lack of activity? Apparently not. Why do you think you're coming across that way?

On September 23 2013 01:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:

You voted for Mocsta in the middle of your argument, at the late-parts of it.
Can you respond to the case.

On September 23 2013 01:09 marvellosity wrote:
Well, I'm assuming only 1 or 2 of the non-posters will be mafia, at most. It's just... mafia is kinda relational, so when pieces are missing, it's just odd. Anyway it doesn't matter because we make do with what we have.

Koshi feels really passive here.

On September 23 2013 01:31 justanothertownie wrote:

Time to get near a computer and be townie like the last games i saw of you.

On September 23 2013 02:41 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Elaborate fully on my case on you. Then tell us who do you want to lynch. Otherwise i make sure you'll get lynched.

On September 22 2013 22:04 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Don't worry, you'll do it when you do it.

Here's the thing. You and Koshi went back and forth. After that Koshi voted for you for (1) posting specially, for you (2) faking activity, and for you (3) thinking Kush is scum for caring about rules.

Point (3) was proven wrong as your thingy went on. I did ask Koshi later on why he did vote for you. He only mentioned (1), and that is bullshit. He did not mention (2) at all, while that was the only point that actually could make you scum from the reasons he gave. In other words, his vote was totally crap.

After that he swithed his vote to VA. Fair enough, he could do that as town, but he had other scumreads at that moment (WoS) and he never interacts with him at any point at the game. After his rant with you he only talks about VA (and he knows that's useless).

TLDR; His votes end up on someone with either shitty reasons or they end up on someone easy to plant a vote on. Or both. That's not what Koshi does as town. Look at the last game where he flipped town. After Titanic Koshi has been the shiny beacon of towniness when he is town. Here he is discussing stupid stuff or discussing no stuff at all and voting for an easy target. I think that makes him scum.

##Vote: Koshi

Now, Mocsta, when you are able to;
I find it weird that you are saying "Koshi has discussed important matters" because that's horribly wrong. I agree with your vote on Sentinel and if he does not improve his posting / give thoughts on something that's easy to hide behind we lynch him. But Koshi looks worse. He's actively posting but not saying shit.

On September 06 2013 05:53 LoneMeow wrote:
As to my top lynch candidate right now, I think I'd want to go for Chairman Ray:

His early posts are reasonable, but he seems to be carefully avoiding taking sides and never really calls anyone scum (besides a 0-poster...) before jumping on Lord Velocity for that ridiculous edit mishap. I can easily see scum motivation for wanting not to implicate anyone until an easy target shows up to jump on.

I could also consider Infii, but his "big post" does bring up some decent points that would have to be considered.

##Vote: Chairman Ray

On September 21 2013 21:55 LoneMeow wrote:
Not sure what to make of this geript vs the world thing.

Mocsta jumping on Pandain (before the ninja vote) seemed weird and I am suspicious.

I do want Pandain to explain his vote though. Until he does,

##Vote: Pandain

On August 21 2013 02:59 LoneMeow wrote:


Ok.

##Vote: Alakaslam

On August 20 2013 23:31 LoneMeow wrote:
Also, right now I'm agreeing with lynching Deus.

##Vote: DeusXmachina

On August 17 2013 18:37 LoneMeow wrote:
Ok, that's better. Careful with meta in newbie games though.

Now, Squibbles needs to start posting. Or I'll have him hung.

##Vote: Squibbles

On September 23 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Koshi are you making a case or asking people "can i lynch this guy"?
Also do you still think VA is scum?

On September 23 2013 03:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:

On (2), no, i do not get it. Explain it to me please.

On September 23 2013 04:04 raynpelikoneet wrote:

So why did you not push more votes on him instead of giving up when someone disagrees with you?
You got Pandain to vote with you, why is it impossible for you to push your agenda if i disagree with you? That's not town!Koshi'y.

On September 23 2013 04:12 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Who did say that? Me, marv and Mocsta. One of those guys is a dude you had a scumread on. Why can't we be scum defending Vayne? Do you think we were being reasonable?

On September 23 2013 04:14 LoneMeow wrote:
I can't get a scum read on anyone but Umasi, and I'm notoriously biased against him so that's almost guaranteed to be wrong. I'll vote him anyway since I have to vote someone. Not sure I'll wake up for the deadline but I'll try.

Chairman Ray is lynchbait like in my last newbie, so probably town. IMHO his "last hour shenigans" plan is terrible, though.

##Vote: Umasi

Here for a while if you want to ask me something.

On September 23 2013 04:19 LoneMeow wrote:


Who, then? Myself? I can do that if you think it's better.

On September 23 2013 04:22 LoneMeow wrote:


Sure.

##Unvote: Umasi
##Vote: LoneMeow

On September 23 2013 04:26 LoneMeow wrote:


What's the wtf here? The way I see it, I have 3 options:

1) vote my only scum read (against whom I know I'm biased)
2) vote myself
3) vote at random

None of the options is really better than the others, so...

On September 23 2013 04:22 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Since when have you been concerned about looking bad as town?
I am confused now. Why did you even start that shit in the first place as the outcomes are:
1) Vayne gives no shits about your vote and that doesn't tell anything about him
2) Vayne breaks his character, does that make him town?
3) You end up looking bad when people disagree with you

On September 23 2013 04:29 LoneMeow wrote:


I've read and re-read the thread and filters all the time I had. I'm simply nowhere near good enough for games with players of this caliber.

On September 23 2013 04:39 LoneMeow wrote:


How am I supposed to do that when I have no reads and no thread presence?

On September 23 2013 04:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:

I am going back to sauna. Elaborate on your scumreads.

On September 23 2013 05:20 Stutters695 wrote:
Seriously guys, can anyone give me a reason to not vote kush?

On September 23 2013 05:22 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Elaborate on FT. What do you mean by "i would expect more from him"?

On September 23 2013 05:50 raynpelikoneet wrote:
yamato could you comment on Koshi. This is basically what he has done:
1) Called out Mocsta for bad reasons.
2) When Vayne made a non-alignment indicative post, retracted from the vote on Mocsta and voted for Vayne.
3) Retracted from Vayne because some people called his vote out.
4) Called some random people scum and voted for LoneMeow for martyring.
5) Reasoning for FT being scum is... no, actually there is no reasoning, Koshi just summed up what FT has done this game.

TLDR; Bad, useless posts, fear of being called out for his ideas/intentions, summing up what someone said and calling them scumfor it without conclusions.

And that's my case, Koshi is scum.

On September 23 2013 06:25 Stutters695 wrote:


So because you expected more you want to lynch him? Do you think he is town or scum, this bull "I never said he's scum, but I'd lynch him" shit isn't working for me.

On September 23 2013 06:27 ObviousOne wrote:

First sentence. Wow. That's scummy as fuck.

On September 23 2013 07:20 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Okay, can you just vote for Koshi everyone? He's scum.

On September 23 2013 07:23 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Sentinel, Chairman Ray, Risen.

On September 23 2013 07:24 marvellosity wrote:
Here's something interesting guys. Remember I posted about this?



Well, rayn was confident later, and DP didn't back him.

On September 23 2013 07:29 marvellosity wrote:


No. Should he have to be reminded of what he said?

On September 22 2013 23:10 DarthPunk wrote:
OK I read Koshi's filter and it seemed to contain a lot of one liners. Wasn't he going away though and stated before the game started that he would potentially be phone posting? If he is limited to phone posting then his filter makes a lot more sense as it is much more convenient to stick to one liners whilst phone posting.

Like I am unfamiliar with the standard of play required from Koshi. If it is a high standard and he is usually active and curious and writes good posts then I would be concerned that he was flying under the radar.

But if I discounted meta, then I would probably not want to lynch Koshi and here is why.






Here he states when questioned about both myself and geript that he does not want to lynch us? Why would a scum that is trying to fly under the radar take that position on both of us?

I think as scum it would be far easier and more convenient to just side with one or the other and no one would really care. Saying that you don;t want to lynch either draws attention to Koshi and if we read his filter and decide that he is trying to lay low, taking a controversial position just does not gel with that mindset.

On September 23 2013 07:43 justanothertownie wrote:
So, who are the lynch candidates worth looking into right now? Ray/Koshi/?... I won't be here for the lynch (impossible time for me) so I will have to find a target soon.

On September 23 2013 07:45 yamato77 wrote:
If people don't feel good about lynching Ray, I'd be more than happy leading the gallows to Mocsta.

On September 23 2013 07:47 justanothertownie wrote:

Sorry, coming from you that is not very convincing.^^
I am really missing your aggressive light hearted playstyle. You seem to be very passive this game.

On September 23 2013 07:47 Chairman Ray wrote:


You have a lot of history with koshi, but this is my first time playing with him. With that being given, do you think my read on him was reasonable? Right now, I still believe koshi may be scum. I might be willing to accept that he just followed your vote in the first place, but he's active in this thread right now, I'm inviting him to give me some analysis on why he's voting me, and there still hasn't been anything yet.

I still disagree with your analysis on my first post. You may have an extensive experience, but that doesn't mean you are correct. In this case, you definitely do have a misread on me, but I hope that we can resolve that now instead of post game. At the same time, I made a lot of rookie mistakes that caused you to have such a strong scumread on me. I would like to win this game so if there's any way that I could make myself easier to read for you and everyone else here, feel free to say it. If I could improve now, that may mean the difference between a win and a loss. Otherwise I'll probably be seeking your help postgame.

Right now my radar is still on koshi despite you disagreeing with me. However if you are confident that he's town, then I could use some of your analysis as well on why he is, so I have a more educated vote. I still would like to hear from koshi on why he's voting me.

On September 23 2013 08:06 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Koshi what are those "secret taktics" you are referring to?

On September 23 2013 08:02 yamato77 wrote:

Read through his vote on LoneMeow and give me your honest interpretation.

On September 23 2013 04:31 Chairman Ray wrote:


Why would you say that voting Umasi is a terrible idea, yet vote him anyways? It seems to me like you are scum trying to get achieve a town mislynch D1, but unable to muster up any strong cases on anybody. So instead of posting a weak case against them and have everyone call you out on it, you beat us to the punch by telling us your case is poor to begin with. If you are really town, then a town who intentionally makes a bad vote is still hurting town.

##Vote: LoneMeow

On September 23 2013 08:29 yamato77 wrote:

So, outside of his first post, is there anything meaningful that would make you lean one way or the other about him?

On September 23 2013 08:34 yamato77 wrote:

Meh, he explained it well enough IMO. I'm having second thoughts about his lynch.

On September 23 2013 09:10 WaveofShadow wrote:

Marv is working slowly because he doesn't want to be the primary pusher of a lynch today, it seems. Maybe so it becomes more difficult for people like you to simply sit back and sheep?

On September 23 2013 09:21 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:


Why 1/5 specifically?

On September 23 2013 16:47 DarthPunk wrote:


Read kush's filter and then read Stutters case on kush. Then think of the last two games of his where he clearly gave a shit enough to be night killed. Then come back and tell me Kush is giving a shit this game. If you can do that then I can re think kush. Up until that point I think kush is likely to be scum.

On September 23 2013 17:02 DarthPunk wrote:


Oh ok. But yeah. He has the ability to give a shit about the game and this game he clearly doesn't.

On September 23 2013 17:06 LoneMeow wrote:
Here now and hopefully a bit more coherent with less pain and so. Sorry about ruining the game. Also, I don't get to choose when I have to leave as long as I am staying with my parents.

DP is town I think, his anger at the hosting messup seems genuine.



This is why I wanted to vote Umasi, it just makes no sense from town perspective. It really looks like he was just trying to see if that'd gain any traction and let it go when it looked like it would not. Why would town do that?

On September 23 2013 17:35 LoneMeow wrote:


Typing with one hand I manage about 5-6 WPM (instead of the usual 70+, it's quite frustrating really...) so I won't be able to spam even if I try, but I'll try to find something once I'm done with my Scala assignments.

Anyone in particular I should look into first?

On September 23 2013 17:45 Mocsta wrote:
koshi.

how the fudge can u still be doubting.

man up and interrogate me.

On September 23 2013 17:53 Mocsta wrote:

I don't think I have buddied rayn, because neither of us have gone out of our way to work with each other.

I freely admit he is a town read. in fact, he is my strongest town read. dare I say, confirmed town.


is this why u voted me... an omgus via rayn?

On September 23 2013 18:22 ObviousOne wrote:

Its staggeringly easy to know when I'm scum. All you have to do is look at a couple previous games. I mean if you don't actually care whether or not I'm scum, by all means put me on your little list. But maybe, hey for giggles, look at two scum games and two town games of mine (they're in my profile) before you go telling people to shoot me.

On September 23 2013 18:24 Mocsta wrote:
actually, my read on rayn has nothing to do with the koshi push.

that's alignment null.. in my opinion he could push u like that as town or scum.

I don't care if u think my play I'd bad. its co pletely different playing day1 to replacing in.


when u replace, u can instantly analyse the thread.
being here day1 means I have to generate convo... man, I wanted yo lurk this game, but after the shitfight, someone had to step up.

if it wasn't clear, my first post with seals was written before joining the game.

On September 23 2013 18:28 marvellosity wrote:


By and large these vigi targets are shocking, as are at least one of your doc protect targets. You should be ignored.

On September 23 2013 18:37 marvellosity wrote:
I pray to god a player like Koshi doesn't roll doc if he advocates medicing geript over me, for example.

On September 23 2013 18:38 marvellosity wrote:
You don't doc people because you think they're really town, Koshi. You doc assetts.

On September 23 2013 18:35 DarthPunk wrote:


Yamato is not 100% anything.

On September 23 2013 18:45 DarthPunk wrote:


I agree that this is nothing like his last mafia game. But, to be fair, he didn't actually try in his previous mafia game. So if he WAS trying. Then he could play like this as scum.

On September 23 2013 18:47 Mocsta wrote:

Because, the push itself is null.. he could easily tunnel you relentlessly as either alignment (just like myself).

Rayn is town for a couple reasons; i dont need to outline them all, but the one that is pertinent here is that he has continuously tried to alter his approach to get people to understand his pov.

i haven't played with a scum that does this yet
scum tunnel is.. here is my info... scream im right.. if the scum player is good, they will update the case as the thread continues.

rayn is proactively trying to find out why his case isnt getting traction and then making adjustments to correct that.. thats fuckn townie.. regadless of whether teh case is wrong or right...

He obviously beleives in his case, and you havent given him an answer yet that has satisfied him..
As i alluded to before, i believe it is because he holds you to a higher content standard than the rest of the thread.

On September 23 2013 19:04 Mocsta wrote:

Wtf is blahzinghand on there for....

and fuck u too koshi

On September 23 2013 19:22 Mocsta wrote:

Yeah, like thers suspect ppl in that list for sure.

BUT .. 5 to 6 ppl replaced in.. Are you suggesting it is likely they are all town?

On September 23 2013 19:26 Mocsta wrote:

You forgot to add yourself.

On September 23 2013 19:27 FirmTofu wrote:
I would actually place myself in the category right before that one, but I can see why you might think that.

On September 23 2013 19:42 FirmTofu wrote:
So yeah, if I had a shot right now, I'd shoot Zaragon. Marv, you need anything from me?

On September 23 2013 19:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
CR i am disappoint son.. ffs.

Koshi, you need to understand that Chairman Ray voting for you had -- and shouldn't have -- nothing to do with my vote on him. I don't make connection cases pre-flip, there was a possibility that he is scum and you are town, he was my second top scumread. Therefore i voted for him.

Mocsta is right in what he says about me, i hold you (Koshi) up to higher standards that you showed us on D1. From your N1 posting you look better. You are not giving a fuck what anyone thinks, you are voicing your opinion. That's not what you did on D1, you were giving bad reasons and instead of doing what you are doing now (being confident in yourself) you were more blendy and non-commital in your reads. Keep that up, makes me feel much better about you. Also your FT vote looks much better now given that CR flipped town (i still don't understand it though -- but overall it looks better as there is a fair chance FT is scum).

I want to hear FT's reads too..

On September 23 2013 19:48 geript wrote:
Oh to have an extra bullet. I'd shoot FT for these piles of bs.

On September 23 2013 19:56 geript wrote:
So is nobody else find coag's choice of shot weird? I mean, at least he's town then and shit but ugh.

On September 23 2013 20:11 DarthPunk wrote:


What is dull about it? I believe he is a Vig. I believe I am getting shot incredibly stupidly, I obviously can't do anything to get geript out of his moronic tunnel, So I need other people to do it for me.

I am legitimately concerned about getting shot. And I don't know why you wouldn't be concerned about me getting shot.

On September 23 2013 20:14 DarthPunk wrote:


I did consider something similar. But then his attacks on me felt to genuine.

On September 23 2013 20:15 marvellosity wrote:
Then why are you even mentioning it as a possibility Koshi?

On September 23 2013 20:26 DarthPunk wrote:


Yeah. I think marv could be scum. I'll post a thorough case on him by deadline. It is hard to get marv lynched so it will be a lot of work.

On September 23 2013 21:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Why should i be mad?

On September 23 2013 21:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:

I don't know. I am willing to let you do your stuff. Don't waste it by OMGUSing me. Because if you do so then i will be mad. If you think i am scum fair enough, then give reasons for it. But don't just shit on for no reason. That's not gonna help anyone.

On September 23 2013 21:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Koshi before you go can you gimme 3 scumreads that are not me with reasoning?

On September 23 2013 21:43 yamato77 wrote:
This Marv push from DP is like, the dumbest thing I've ever seen.

DP almost HAS to be scum hamming it up. He could not be this butthurt as town, no way.

On September 23 2013 21:59 DarthPunk wrote:
I'm going to ask for a replacement. Im done with mafia. GL town.

On September 23 2013 11:01 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:


I think that in itself might give some discussion to LM's alignment.

On September 23 2013 22:17 DarthPunk wrote:
I've asked for a replacement so hopefully MZ can find one. Otherwise he can modkill me and save geript the trouble.

On September 23 2013 22:18 DarthPunk wrote:


Will do.

way more he has done in his last couple of town games on D1. While it's not much, and i disagree with a lot of stuff he is saying, it still is way better and he seemed like trying.

On September 23 2013 22:33 raynpelikoneet wrote:

I explained why i did vote for CR over FT.