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On September 23 2013 20:01 FirmTofu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 19:58 marvellosity wrote:On September 23 2013 19:56 FirmTofu wrote:On September 23 2013 19:50 marvellosity wrote:On September 23 2013 19:49 FirmTofu wrote:On September 23 2013 19:46 marvellosity wrote:
Thing is, Firm, Zaragon *could* be mafia (I don't have a strong townread on him or anything), but:
The parenthetical aside isn't something town would do. Town is more likely to believe their actions even to the point of fault. Only scum uses fallback options to justify their actions.
This is simply untrue. I do this kinda thing as town pretty regularly. Of course he could be mafia. Anyone can be mafia. What I'm saying is that out of the 29 people still alive, he's the most likely to be mafia. If you have a disagreement with that statement, you can bring it up. On that note, who is your strongest scumread right now, marv? This is not the point I was making. The point I was making is that your entire case is built on a premise that I think is basically false. I was definitely generalizing to what I believe to be proper townplay vs proper scumplay. As this is a game of probability, I'm working with probabilities. "Town is more likely to believe their actions even to the point of fault." "Only scum uses fallback options to justify their actions." These are statements dependent on implied probabilities. Granted, I may not have used the best choice of words(see: Only), but I believe that both of these statements are true in the majority of cases. They may not be true for you, but that is not a damning argument in and of itself. While you may not fit the mold, I believe most players do. You are only one statistic and cannot single-handedly refute my argument with only the evidence of your own play to back you up. Yes, but you have no evidence to support your theory being true either. Therefore "you cannot singlehandedly assert that your heuristic is correct with only the evidence of you saying so." I'd rather say town, especially on day 1, are much more likely to think in either/or terms because it'll be the time townies are most unsure of their reads. Ultimately, the goal is to try and convince a majority of people to agree with me. While this argument may not resonate with you, I think the majority of people can see where I am coming from. You are entitled to your opinion, so I would like to agree to disagree on this issue. Can any of the rest of you chime in on my case on Zaragon? Rayn, is there any reason you've been relatively subdued in this game?
What do you mean?
I am not going to look into 30 other players and try to analyze them all. I pick a portion of people who to question. If they end up town i pick a new portion, if there is scum, i try to lynch them.
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On September 23 2013 20:02 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 19:56 marvellosity wrote:
Er, Basterd. Only a few months ago. Marv, please. We talked about it after the game (or when i died). It was to get shot and to keep you alive as you were a more valuable asset in that game and certainly not a veteran. It's the exact same thing i did with iamp in Bluelightz game. Obviously didn't work because Vivax couldn't get out of tunneling you after that and since then i have stopped it (because it didn't work out in Bluelightz game aswell -- as iamp claimed mason). I also did the same thing in Ego, where i posted a huge (half incorrect) case on Palmar on last night because i wanted him alive on the last day as i was copping him.
Yes, i said you are either scum and i am right, or you are town and won't get killed and because you are actually good at this shit people will realize itand you have a good chance in figuring out the game, better than i do. Am i incorrect?
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Okay marv, you are right, that's not what i said. That's however what my thought process was. I guess i didn't write that because you were still in game and you are not supposed to know what dead players think (besides what's in thread). Also that was on N1, not D1.
Anyways, does that mean anything?
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So instead of this stupid vigi debate, can we talk about who is scum instead?
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On September 23 2013 20:17 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 20:13 marvellosity wrote:On September 23 2013 20:11 DarthPunk wrote:On September 23 2013 20:10 marvellosity wrote:On September 23 2013 20:08 DarthPunk wrote:On September 23 2013 19:57 marvellosity wrote:
I really cannot be bothered to comment on all the people who have claimed vigi and who are claiming to use their shot on x and y.
Pretty much what will be will be. Really? you are just going to sit back and let geript vig me? I would expect you to point out how dumb that would be. But you don't care? Don't be so dull, DP. Christ. What is dull about it? I believe he is a Vig. I believe I am getting shot incredibly stupidly, I obviously can't do anything to get geript out of his moronic tunnel, So I need other people to do it for me. I am legitimately concerned about getting shot. And I don't know why you wouldn't be concerned about me getting shot. If someone says they're going to bathe in shit, then me telling them it's a bad idea probably isn't going to stop them bathing in shit, because it should be obvious enough already. Sigh. People listen to you marv. You are usually very good at pointing out that people are about to bathe in shit and then convincing them that bathing in shit is a bad idea and should be avoided. Earlier when I spoke to you you said you didn't want to talk about it because it wasn't relevant at that time. Well it is relevant now and you still don't want to talk about it. In fact you seem to be ok with it happening. Doesn't make sense.
DP, look at what geript did in Aperture. "I'm a motherfucking town vote rigger! Therefore i'll draw every single vote on me on D1 by playing stupid and i'll execute BH (who was town) just because".
In case geript is town and a vigilante you are not helping yourself by telling him how retarded he is, because by doing that he will 100% shoot you no matter how wise/unwise that is.
Do something else instead. I have not seen much scum reads/analysis from you this game, and i honestly think that's a bit worrying. You did enter shitfests with geript/FT, then called them both scum and voted for FT. Who else do you think is scum?
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marv could you explain the lack of commenting on my Koshi case on D1, especially when he voted for FT (before that he said FT is not a scumread of his)?
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On September 23 2013 20:32 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 20:30 raynpelikoneet wrote:
marv could you explain the lack of commenting on my Koshi case on D1, especially when he voted for FT (before that he said FT is not a scumread of his)? I felt Koshi was unlikely to be mafia, because I don't think he'd display the rank apathy that he did during a lot of Day 1 as mafia. I think he'd at least pretend to be interested.
Why didn't you tell my case was bad and i should look elsewhere then? That's what you usually do.
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Fair enough. What do you make of FT's answers?
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On September 23 2013 20:45 marvellosity wrote:
I've already mentioned why his case is pretty bad from my pov. Rest of his posts are just bleh
Oh right. Yeah i agree with you on that.
Another thing that bothers me is his read on me. I generally hate when people point out things i have done, make a long post about it and then end up with a null-read. What FT said was:
I'm null on rayn. There are some things he's done that I liked, but there is also a great absence of things that he could have done that he hasn't done.
For rayn, he is posting in unnaturally low quantities. When that happens, rayn usually flips scum. However, in this game, rayn has been actively pursuing reads like he usually does as town. I remember a few exchanges he's had with a few people that made me think he was standard town rayn. Of course, he could be deliberately tailoring his play to get us to think exactly that. I'm still hazy on his alignment.
"He has done townie stuff, but he could be scum, because he should have done more though". Like what? Why not explain what should i have done then if there is something that makes me scum that i should have absolutely done?
He just leaves the read/question open and asks me about it. Wtf am i supposed to answer?
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On September 23 2013 20:51 Koshi wrote:
rayn why are you not mad?
Why should i be mad?
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On September 23 2013 21:02 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 21:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:On September 23 2013 20:51 Koshi wrote:
rayn why are you not mad? Why should i be mad? that I totally wasted your Day 1. Or am I still scum to you?
I don't know. I am willing to let you do your stuff. Don't waste it by OMGUSing me. Because if you do so then i will be mad. If you think i am scum fair enough, then give reasons for it. But don't just shit on for no reason. That's not gonna help anyone.
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Koshi before you go can you gimme 3 scumreads that are not me with reasoning?
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On September 23 2013 21:13 DarthPunk wrote:
Rayn what do you think of marv? How engaged do you feel that he has been? Have you read hapa's case from GSLIII?
marv's been less engaged as town lately, especially on D1. That's why it nearly impossible to tell his alignment early on. I am basically looking for what he does as the game goes on, D2 and D3 will tell us a lot more of his alignment.
When was GSLIII played? If that's over 6 months ago, i think the meta from that game is useless in figuring out today's marv.
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On September 23 2013 21:20 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 21:13 DarthPunk wrote:
Rayn what do you think of marv? How engaged do you feel that he has been? Have you read hapa's case from GSLIII? I'm going to attempt to shut down your case right now, if you're going to use meta. I guess you can take it or leave it, but I probably won't say anything else on the matter. When I play scum, I try pretty hard to fake 'emotional investment' in town, to varying degrees of success. In this game, it's been pretty clear I've been trying to remain emotionally uninvolved as far as possible. Now, perhaps this is a new style of scumplay that I'm trying - I've decided that being cold and analytical will give me the best scumresults. If you believe this then there's not a lot I can do. Simplest and correct explanation is that I'm town, trying to keep emotionally stable and on an even footing as much as possible, and that this isn't my first scumgame ever where I'm actively trying to be UNemotional.
This is actually bullshit marv, if you know the differences in your scum/town play you are able to fake it aswell.
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Is Sentinel supposed to be good? I don't remember playing with him unless it was the games i was scum and had no time to play.
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Like, the only thing i find good in Sentinel's filter is his vote on Umasi. I had the same thoughts he had when Umasi suddenly let go of his pressure on LoneMeow. But when Umasi answers him (and me) he just goes "whatever, let's lynch yamato".
And yeah, his Chairman Ray stuff is weird. Definitely a good lynch.
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On September 23 2013 21:59 Koshi wrote:
Ok just a quick recap because I wasn't around and it is somewhat important if you want to look at the votes.
So everybody thought there were still 3.5h before the lynch, but then out of the blue the host said that we only had 0.5h left and then 0.5h later he closed the votes.
That's it right?
yes/no is enough.
yes
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On September 23 2013 22:10 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 22:04 yamato77 wrote:On September 23 2013 21:57 DarthPunk wrote:On September 23 2013 21:56 marvellosity wrote:
yamato's not being a dick, and if you genuinely think what he's doing now is crossing some line, then yes, you should probably stop playing mafia, because he's not been unfair or overly harsh. Yeah. I probably should. It's just a build up of yamato going at me every game of forum and voice mafia I have played in for like 6 months I did not call you mafia in Les Mis. You WERE mafia in Catch 22 I don't even remember other forum games I've played with you in that time frame. You did it at the start with perfection. then catch 22, then for a while at the start of Persona. And all the voice mafia games don't help. And then this retarded geript tunnel on top of everything else. I'm just not having fun anymore.
Ignore it and do something else. If people are being unreasonable towards you you don't win anything by flinging shit back at them.
Ignore it and find scum. If they don't stop they are probably scum.
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On September 23 2013 22:29 Koshi wrote:
See rayn, you are not really the guy that votes for people because there post look constructed and shit like that. You vote for people because they have a scummy mindset. Can't believe you voted CR over myself if you felt so strongly about me, and while you were not convinced about FT, you decided to vote CR.
I simply don't see rayn giving me up so easily, there simply wasn't enough anger and caps to try and lynch me.
Problem is I don't see you saving FT like that. Even though you are also not the bussing kind of scumplayer. Even though you like to have conversation with your fellow scummers.
Your lynch wasn't going to happen. It was pretty clear. I explained why i did vote for CR over FT.
It has to do with his past scumplay and what he did in last game (Desert) when he got mislynched on D1 and what we talked about after that game.
I don't have a town read on marv, i have explained that aswell.
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On September 23 2013 22:34 marvellosity wrote:
It's funny, because I'd say the players who played in Desert should be the ones with decent townreads on me by now.
Why exactly?
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EPT
