EPTOn September 23 2013 11:02 WaveofShadow wrote:
Is it deadline? Do we need to stop talking?
Is it deadline? Do we need to stop talking?
This. I want to go take a shower already.
TL Mafia LXII: TL Noir - Page 5
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
This. I want to go take a shower already. | ||
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
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[UoN]Sentinel
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On September 23 2013 18:29 Mocsta wrote: sentinel is a great vig shot to that guy went from policy lynching ?kush to policy lynching umasi. useless I never even voted for kush and my vote on Umasi wasn't policy at all. If you're going to accuse me, at least do your homework. Anyways, I'll catch up on thread when I get home | ||
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
So this whole thing starts with yamato calling me scum and then sending out this: On September 23 2013 21:47 yamato77 wrote: RE: Sentinel His read on Ray goes from this: To this, 2 hours later: To this, yet one more hour later: With basically nothing in between except filler posts. Like I said, he is mafia. So what happened in those two hours was a realization - during my 07:27 post, I was going off of solely Chairman's current filter in the game, a constricted play that mirrors the attitude I had during my own first game, Hammer Mini. My mentality was this: He wanted to do something without attracting attention. Yes that's a scum tell under normal conditions, but as someone in his You can argue that I'm biased towards townie while yamato is biased towards scum, so we just saw both sides of a different coin. This is also why I voted for him, because I believed that tunneling someone who I believed (correctly, as we later saw) to be town, while having posted several other good reads, is scumworthy - yamato, being biased towards scumreads, was pushing town players and twisting their cases to look scummy. Then marv comes along and posts this three minutes later: On September 23 2013 07:30 marvellosity wrote: Good grief, Ray's posts looked constructed in his newbie game. That's kinda disappointing. Now this was the point where I started to question my position on Chairman. I actually ended up discarding my read on Coagulation once I became aware of his meta (I believe marv pointed that one out too), and so I checked out Ray's filter from his other game, Newbie Mafia XLVII. Much more relaxed and intelligent posting. He pushes a case on LordVelocity which was only stopped by his mislynch. From what I'm able to gather, since I've only read his filter and not the rest of the game, Ray seems to be stirring up discussion, poking at what he believes to be a scumslip and also participating in a discussion pertaining to Umasi, something unrelated to his defense or his immediate target. His play contracted in style and in Newbie he showed to be capable of doing things (to some extent) that a good townie should - discussing, clarifying, and bringing out things he finds scummy so that others defended them. I actually skimmed Ver's analysis of XXX and remember something in the back of my mind about new blues being very secretive so they don't accidentally get shot or mislynched. I didn't remember it well enough to consider it, but did once I saw Ray flip blue. But at this point I was unaware, so I was beginning to agree with yamato - this guy might have been red after all. Koshi you never answered my question about the 1/5 lurkers So here's my mentality at this point, right? On September 23 2013 09:39 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: After reviewing Chairman's filter, I have to agree that something is up here. Maybe a little south of neutral in my eyes. Might it be a product of coaching in the newbie game and nothing in this one? At this point I was also slated to die, but with 3 hours plus I would have some time to contribute to the scumhunt and either push my reads or prolong my own. I was off of yamato, so if I wanted to push, I'd need some time. Then this happened: And this is where I shifted into panic mode. I didn't have 3 hours, I had 30 minutes, and the votecount said I was going to die. I'd rather find a red player to lynch than get mislynched myself. So what do I do? I can't construct a persuasive case in 30 minutes, so might as well sheep someone who I think is scum. Cue me convincing myself through rereads of Chairman's filter that he's playing unusually restrictive, and with my previous defense of him ruled out with the Newbie filter, he must be red. (##Vote Chairman Ray) Then he flips blue, I remember Ver's post, and the rest is history. On September 23 2013 21:51 marvellosity wrote: And also, Sentinel has been added to the shitlist. It's not so much that he changed his mind, but the manner is just awful. The same content goes from "nothing looks scummy" to "he is the best chance to flip mafia today" with nothing in between. There's nothing to indicate why the massive change. Ironic, your post inspired me to do it | ||
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
On September 24 2013 05:33 Koshi wrote: Sentinel. I simply said that mathematically there is only 1 scum between 5 lurkers unless you have a townread on all the active posters. I think it was as reply to geript saying there must be 2 scum in lurkercity. Good news, I have wifi. Also, I am still alive. Now I understand this rationale: + Show Spoiler + On September 23 2013 09:22 Koshi wrote: 30 peepz, 6 scum, 1/5 scum, 5 lurkers, 1 scum. Just didn't understand the wording. All good. | ||
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
On September 24 2013 06:29 Coagulation wrote: dont worry pandain i would def shoot [UoN]Sentinel before you. Why me? | ||
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
Also, what do you guys think of Cheesecake lately? He's been under the radar for a while, only showed up once for night 1 to sheep yamato. | ||
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
FirmTofu's case on Zaragon seems to be more concerned about saving his own ass - he even mentions it in the opening - which makes his case look more motivated to post some sort of read for the sake of posting reads. The parenthetical aside part of his argument, like marv before me mentioned, is actually mistaken by itself. So there goes the integrity of that read. I'm not going to rehash marv's arguments over there, but it ends with FT defending his stance on towns being committed to their reads - marv claims the opposite with towns not being 100% sure who is scum. What is important here is that in FT's mind, townie players need to commit to their reads. I don't know if it was his intention, but this post heavily implied he was one of the players who as town commits to their reads: post On September 24 2013 07:22 FirmTofu wrote: I'm back. All caught up. I'm starting to have reservations about my case on Zaragon :/ brb doing some filter diving. Switches to me. Pandain calls him out on it, with the post asking if Marv convinced FT of his argument. So FT contends that Zaragon is his top read (although it is shit, and he says so) and keeps his vote on it. Bracketing this for a second, here is the interesting bit. Now what his read on me is is all the stuff I've done earlygame. He claims that we were looking for vig targes - were we? I'm pretty sure the beginning of Day 1 we hadn't found anyone to vig yet. Anyways, he brings up my weak Coag vote, my switches onto Stutters and Umasi, and brings up arguments that can be considered somewhat valid. Until he brings up yamato: Later, he switched to Yamato, who is now basically confirmed town barring crazy shenanigans. No real reasoning provided for this vote switch. Just decides Umasi isn't going to gain steam so decides to vote someone else. Final sentence is true. First two are not. I voted for Yamato when he had only two posts of considerable length, and the second one made him look like a scumfuk. I think I even justified the vote earlier in the thread. At this point I thought Chairman Ray was town and yamato was isolating him for an easy lynch - and FirmTofu completely waves away the detailed thought process I laid out on why I switched from my townread on Chairman to being the final nail in his coffin. "Seems sketchy at best. I can vote this guy." That's all the rationale he gives. So in summary, FT's current two reads, say what you will about their targets, are both heavily flawed. His number one read, which he acknowledged had holes in it to Pandain, is still his number one read at the time of this posting. That's incredibly scummy to me - instead of finding the best proof he can, he just latches on whatever reads he can find without regard for their solidity. | ||
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
So like I did with Chairman, it's time to hit up the filters. In Newbie 47 he played scum. Seems to be more active, posting reads and making votes - voted for Chairman, small world. In Newbie 46 he was a VT. While less restricted in his posting than this game, he also seems to be much more safe than in 47. The way I see it in my head, 46 had coaches to help out - this game doesn't. So he should be trying to follow the path of the model townie and post reads, but as a green player he is unsure of himself and throws around his vote to pressure people, retracting it when he is happy. In summary I have a slightly green read on LM since his play this game matches his only town game much more closely than his only scum game. | ||
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
On September 25 2013 05:31 justanothertownie wrote: So now you think yamato is confirmed town? What made you chance your mind? No I don't. I'm questioning his last post: On September 24 2013 12:22 yamato77 wrote: I'm confirmed town, so what I say actually goes today. We lynch Sentinel. | ||
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
On September 25 2013 05:46 iamperfection wrote: you know he is pretty much confirmed town right? Oh this? I missed it my first read, had to finish a school project and woke up to a good 10+ pages of discussion. | ||
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
On September 24 2013 13:21 Mattchew wrote: Lol im like conf town mutha truckahs On September 25 2013 00:13 Mattchew wrote: So yamato is town, thats no fun versus On September 25 2013 01:47 Mattchew wrote: I aint the doc Do we have a rationale for this from either Matt, in which case I missed it because Matt doesn't like to quote, or from someone else? Either Matt came out as the doctor or he tripped over himself. | ||
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
On September 25 2013 05:56 justanothertownie wrote: Hm, I see no reason not to believe yamato. I had a townread on him even before. You are right though - he could use this "confirmed status" way more actively. Well, looking at the last 3 pages of yamato's filter, ever since he accused me of flipping my case on Chairman, he never responded to my counterargument with further rationale to incriminate me. He hasn't even mentioned my name up until he says "confirmed town, kill sentinel". Interesting to say the least. I need to go check out his filter in more detail later. | ||
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
On September 25 2013 05:58 raynpelikoneet wrote: Sentinel what did make you change your mind on yamato on D1? I agreed with him, this is when I convinced myself that Chairman was scum and yamato was right. On September 25 2013 05:59 FirmTofu wrote: Hello Sentinel. Good to have you here. I would like to address what you said about my supposed belief that townies need to commit to their reads. I don't hold this belief at all. I think townies generally end up committing to their reads, even to a point of fault. This behavior is not good town play, it's just what ends up happening when someone rolls town, at least in my experience. I, personally, do not usually commit to reads when I am town. If you saw my post regarding my own self-meta, you should be able to get an idea of how I play as town. Back to you. You initially voted Coagulation and then never really talked about him much after that. Is there anything Coagulation did or said that convinced you he wasn't scum? I read the filter that marv told me to read, and his play as town there was pretty much a carbon copy of his play here. So I switched to my other scumread, Stutters. Then later I picked up Umasi, a better scumread at the time, and then yamato. Guess I was wrong about your implication. Like I said, I didn't know if it was your intention, but from your wording it seemed like you would commit to a fault like the townies you speak of. Anyways, my point still stands that you really haven't offered much on Zaragon ever since marv poked holes in your first read. | ||
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[UoN]Sentinel
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[UoN]Sentinel
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On September 25 2013 06:14 raynpelikoneet wrote: I am a bit puzzled. Did you think yamato was town when you voted for CR? Well the post that started all of it had yamato give several scumreads, then vote for Chairman Ray out of all of them. By this point I had an easier time believing Chairman was red rather than green. When I thought CR was townie, scum yamato could have easily isolated and lynched Chairman since he would prove to offer the least resistance. As scum-CR though, why would scum yamato insta-bus his teammate? He offered several good reads and picked one that didn't look too strong. He'd be a lot safer, at least initially, and have the extra man, if he pushed let's say DarthPunk after that big post. But he stayed on Chairman. So if Chairman is scum, like I convinced myself he was, yamato must have been town. Now I'm unsure if yamato was scum or simply misguided, so I'm looking to his more recent activity. | ||
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
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[UoN]Sentinel
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On September 25 2013 06:12 marvellosity wrote: Hey Firm. Here's a few names Umasi Zaragron (i know you've talked about him before today) justanothertownie kush Who's scummiest out of this lot and why? Do you think there are mafia in this list, if so how many? This is what I got through skimming since I'm catching up and posting on short notice: JAT fluffs like a mofo, Zaragon seems to be shoving all his fluff and I guess consolidating it? Both are generally blending in well and not taking the thread anywhere. FT made a pretty bad case on Zaragon so maybe that's why I'm having trouble seeing the red and green features. But I don't like either one. JAT is consistently doing nothing while Zaragon has disappeared. Maybe slightly redder JAT. Umasi's getting better. He's at least trying to contribute to the thread in a good way now and actively discussing. Kush... I never have any idea wtf kush is doing. With mattchew I've seen him make sense before, kush has pretty much been this way in every game I remember. Including smurf. He's stopped making the modicum of sense he was at the beginning of D1 (the thread police stage), so I have nothing. I'd say out of these four I would go after JAT first. I'm going to go look at Mattchew, I haven't looked at him since I brought up his weird pseudo-doc claim thingy | ||
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