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If this game grows /in
If it is still full add me as a /replacement
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So hey guys I be The Lord of house stark
Also iphone capitalizes the phrase The Lord apparent lol
First thoughts: I think dandel's playstyle is bothe irksome and actively anti town in multiple ways, so I'm feeling pretty ambivalent towards any argument that someone is scum based on how they interacted with dandel in pms.
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On August 09 2013 00:04 Dandel Ion wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 00:01 strongandbig wrote:
So hey guys I be The Lord of house stark
Also iphone capitalizes the phrase The Lord apparent lol
First thoughts: I think dandel's playstyle is bothe irksome and actively anti town in multiple ways, so I'm feeling pretty ambivalent towards any argument that someone is scum based on how they interacted with dandel in pms. oh hey a meaningless post without reads by snb quelle surprise why/how are you lord?
cause everyone else in my house thinks i'm town
Anyway now that i'm not posting from phone anymore, I wanted to bring a new topic to the thread's attention. That topic is: Clarity_nl.
This is an edited/paraphrased version of a pm I sent to someone else in my house.
Oh BTW I checked with the hosts and apparently we're not even allowed to quote pms from one person in pms to another person. I don't think they've said that in the thread yet though.
I've also removed the names of the other people in my house. I don't think it's important to keep them secret because scum almost certainly knows who is in which house; they probably have members in most houses, and if there are multiple houses they don't have people in, they already know who the lord is and I doubt the other members will be secret for long. But since there's no actual advantage to revealing this either at this moment, I redacted them until we make a decision as a group.
[snip]
anyway yes there has been some interesting stuff going on. REDACTED said he was going to tell you also but i'll give you a summary. (I asked the hosts, we're not allowed to copy content from one pm into another pm so I can't just give you the chain of messages).
I told clarity my role name, and told him not to tell anyone. I also told him he should vote for me because of my role claim, he said no but that my role claim gave me townie points because it could be counterclaimed.
Clarity then told REDACTED my role name, and when asked why he said that i told him i was going to tell REDACTED myself eventually. that was not true.
He said he told REDACTED because he was curious what REDACTED would say about it. then when i pushed him on why he told REDACTED and why he lied about what I told him, he said he was making a gambit himself. he ignored the part about why he lied to REDACTED about my statement until i asked him for a third time, when he said he misunderstood the post where i told him to keep it a secret. he eventually said that he was testing my reaction by ruining my gambit intentionally to see if i got angry or not (apparently he thought a townie would get angry and scum would not).
A few things to note here:
1. he told me at first that he was curious about what REDACTED would say about my role name claim. then later he told me that he was testing my reaction.
2. he ignored the part about why he told REDACTED that i said i was going to tell everyone eventually, until the third time i asked about it.
3. he never actually asked me what my plan or gambit was, either before or after he intentionally ruined it. There was no actual plan, i just decided to tell my role name to him and not to REDACTED and see what happened because i don't actually think role names are important, if the hosts are not stupid then scum will either have benign role names or will have safe claims. But the thing is, he ruined my plan without finding out what it was first, and then even after he claimed that he intentionally ruined my plan, he never asked what it was.
4. this is just my feeling, but i feel like he was being excessively casual when i first started asking him why he told REDACTED my rolename when i told him not to, he said *shrug* and wasn't acting like it mattered that he told REDACTED.
[snip]
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On August 09 2013 00:06 raynpelikoneet wrote:
lol Oberyn, did you even read my post?
Onegu is giving yamato town credit from an action he considers to be anti-town..
not a huge problem, his logic makes sense.
he's saying it's poor play for a townie to take that action, but it doesn't make sense for a scum member to take it so it's more likely coming from a bad townie than from scum.
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Do players get informed when they get hit by KP?
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not how much kp you get hit by or how much hp you have left. but "you just took some damage" is totally something that could be notified.
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so onegu all you've talked about so far is this "housemate claiming controversy" and questioning why chromatically is the only newbie-ish lord. can you talk about one of the following three things:
- ryan's read on "ft", given the facts in his post
- my read on clarity, given the facts in my post
- chromatically's read on solstice, given the facts in his post
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i claimed (just role name, not role) and told him not to tell anyone because i was trying an experiment.
he told someone else without asking me why i said to keep it a secret and without trying to figure out if ruining my plan would hurt town. he also lied to them, telling them i said i would tell them anyway (i didnt).
then when I asked him why he told them, he first said it was cause he was curious what they would say. i pushed him on it, three or four pms later he said he wanted to ruin my plan on purpose and see my reaction. that's the contradiction
i also asked him why he lied to the other person, he ignored the question twice and then said it was by accident. that's the evasion.
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so clarity's "reaction test" is possible, but unlikely, since it should have been obvious that scum would easily be able to fake anger.
one of the bigger problems for me is why he didn't try to find anything out about what my "plan" was before he intentionally ruined it.
Also why he first said it was just because he was curious about what the other person would think, and then later said he did it on purpose to test my reaction.
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On August 09 2013 01:41 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 01:40 strongandbig wrote:
so clarity's "reaction test" is possible, but unlikely, since it should have been obvious that scum would easily be able to fake anger.
one of the bigger problems for me is why he didn't try to find anything out about what my "plan" was before he intentionally ruined it.
Also why he first said it was just because he was curious about what the other person would think, and then later said he did it on purpose to test my reaction. Because your reaction was ongoing. Do you believe I'm scum? If so, and I've asked this before, please explain how what I've done so far is scum motivated.
i talked about this a bit with REDACTED involved, what i thought was this:
- you could have been worried about my plan and just tried to ruin it
- you could have been trying to buddy-up to REDACTED by sharing information with him (like, i trust you you trust me let's be bros)
- you could have just slipped or not really thought it through before you did it, sometimes both town and scum do stupid things. if this is what happened though, and you were town, you wouldn't have told REDACTED that I was going to share the information anyway, and you wouldn't have told me that it was a ''reaction test".
btw, to the thread: in the interest of open discussion, it is true that REDACTED has a townread on clarity for reasons to do with something other than what we're talking about here. I wasn't convinced by the things that convinced REDACTED. At the moment I think clarity is scum, but I'm still evaluating that read and want to hear what other people think.
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On August 09 2013 01:54 Clarity_nl wrote:
I thought he told me he was telling everyone. He didn't.
I don't get how snb's conclusion is that I'm scum. Like, did I, as scum, understand you were only telling me and then decided to lie to REDACTED (lol), telling him you were telling everyone?
How does that help me as scum? Obviously it'll come back to you and I'll get called out for lying.
so I had to ask you the question "why did you tell REDACTED that I was going to share the information anyway" like three times before you answered.
Basically, the conclusion that you're scum comes from the fact that your actions don't make sense as town.
I guess it's true that if it really was a "reaction test" then you would have to lie at first and say you just told the other person because you were curious. So I guess the contradiction point doesn't hold.
But still, for me to believe you're town I have to believe that you
- actually thought i was going to tell the rest of the house members eventually, but still knew that I didn't want you to tell them yet
- actually decided that rather than letting me do whatever I was doing, or even find out about it, it was a better idea for you to do your plan
- didn't notice the above question the first two times i asked it
- didn't think this whole thing was important enough to tell the fourth house member about when he came in (he said he asked you if anything interesting was going on and you just told him about some stuff between you and REDACTED)
- etc.
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On August 09 2013 02:27 Clarity_nl wrote:
I think me ruining snb's "experiment" isn't even his issue. It's the "lie" which was simply a mistake.
So..... let's move on, yes? A couple of people here can tell you that when I'm town I tend to shine green and when I'm scum I tend to... not shine so green.
there are still stumbling blocks to accepting your decision making process came from town. For example, the decision to kill my plan without knowing what it was, by replacing it with your own early-game plan doesn't make sense to me. the fact that you ignored my question about lying the first two times. etc.
However, maybe the best way forward is for you to talk some about the other stuff going on in the thread atm, and everyone can form reads on you based on the thread?
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On August 09 2013 07:21 Vivax wrote:@ Clarity:+ Show Spoiler +On August 09 2013 01:46 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 01:43 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 09 2013 01:34 Clarity_nl wrote:On August 09 2013 01:31 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 09 2013 01:23 Clarity_nl wrote:On August 09 2013 01:22 Chromatically wrote:
What sort of reaction were you hoping for, clarity? If he were town he would be genuinely upset that his plan got ruined (he was, and early plans are crap anyway) If he were scum he would go "dang, you ruined my plan, oh well" Something along those lines. He did the former, obviously. What was the point of intentionally ignore SnB questioning you about your lie, multiple times as he said? What kind of reaction you were hoping for? And how did REDACTED act? Does he come townie to you or what? I think he's town, yes. Although not for his reaction to what I said. Thought he was scum for a little bit but that changed. Also not because of his reaction. So yeah that part was kinda fruitless. Got a real strong townread on snb though. On August 09 2013 01:23 Clarity_nl wrote:On August 09 2013 01:22 Chromatically wrote:
What sort of reaction were you hoping for, clarity? If he were town he would be genuinely upset that his plan got ruined (he was, and early plans are crap anyway) If he were scum he would go "dang, you ruined my plan, oh well" Something along those lines. He did the former, obviously. It's not much of a plan if I just tell him straight away "oh I'm fishing for a reaction from you" You didn´t really answer me. If you are doing a reaction test you will know he will call you out for lying. You MUST have an answer to that (for reference see what i did in NWM N1) before it happens. Also when doing reaction tests in off thread comm games you basically gotta have a back up. Someone you tell what are you up to before you do it. Without that reaction tests are either stupid or scum. Mafia can after every mistake they make say "oh, it was just a reaction test", and everyone should believe them? So what was your intention during this whole thing that went on N0 in your place? I guess? Didn't have one though. The lying part wasn't intentional, it was a mistake.Me telling the other person snb's rolename was all I did to get a reaction. I think S & B said that you claimed to have lied to him to get a reaction. Is the representation correct?
yes but there are two different things that could be called lies. one is that he told oats my real name because he was curious, when actually he told him that to kill my "plan" on purpose to get a reaction from me. the other is that he told oats I was going to reveal my rolename to the whole house anyway, when that was not in fact correct.
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On August 09 2013 07:55 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 07:24 strongandbig wrote:On August 09 2013 07:21 Vivax wrote:@ Clarity:+ Show Spoiler +On August 09 2013 01:46 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 01:43 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 09 2013 01:34 Clarity_nl wrote:On August 09 2013 01:31 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 09 2013 01:23 Clarity_nl wrote:On August 09 2013 01:22 Chromatically wrote:
What sort of reaction were you hoping for, clarity? If he were town he would be genuinely upset that his plan got ruined (he was, and early plans are crap anyway) If he were scum he would go "dang, you ruined my plan, oh well" Something along those lines. He did the former, obviously. What was the point of intentionally ignore SnB questioning you about your lie, multiple times as he said? What kind of reaction you were hoping for? And how did REDACTED act? Does he come townie to you or what? I think he's town, yes. Although not for his reaction to what I said. Thought he was scum for a little bit but that changed. Also not because of his reaction. So yeah that part was kinda fruitless. Got a real strong townread on snb though. On August 09 2013 01:23 Clarity_nl wrote:On August 09 2013 01:22 Chromatically wrote:
What sort of reaction were you hoping for, clarity? If he were town he would be genuinely upset that his plan got ruined (he was, and early plans are crap anyway) If he were scum he would go "dang, you ruined my plan, oh well" Something along those lines. He did the former, obviously. It's not much of a plan if I just tell him straight away "oh I'm fishing for a reaction from you" You didn´t really answer me. If you are doing a reaction test you will know he will call you out for lying. You MUST have an answer to that (for reference see what i did in NWM N1) before it happens. Also when doing reaction tests in off thread comm games you basically gotta have a back up. Someone you tell what are you up to before you do it. Without that reaction tests are either stupid or scum. Mafia can after every mistake they make say "oh, it was just a reaction test", and everyone should believe them? So what was your intention during this whole thing that went on N0 in your place? I guess? Didn't have one though. The lying part wasn't intentional, it was a mistake.Me telling the other person snb's rolename was all I did to get a reaction. I think S & B said that you claimed to have lied to him to get a reaction. Is the representation correct? yes but there are two different things that could be called lies. one is that he told oats my real name because he was curious, when actually he told him that to kill my "plan" on purpose to get a reaction from me. the other is that he told oats I was going to reveal my rolename to the whole house anyway, when that was not in fact correct. Yeah you're right actually, he went from casual explanations to more sofisticated ones once under pressure, that's quite scummy, but what feel do you gain from his in-thread activity, for example?Do you think that it's scummy too? Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 00:01 strongandbig wrote:
So hey guys I be The Lord of house stark
Also iphone capitalizes the phrase The Lord apparent lol
First thoughts: I think dandel's playstyle is bothe irksome and actively anti town in multiple ways, so I'm feeling pretty ambivalent towards any argument that someone is scum based on how they interacted with dandel in pms. I don't think you have only to consider the content of their PMs to get a read on Koshi and Dandel. Do you have at least a tentative read on the two?
in thread activity: not noticeably scummy, no. I want to give him time to do some actual scumhunting and then re-evaluate my read.
koshi and dandel: I think dandel is probably town, in my experience when he's scum he doesn't actually try to persuade people he is town (or play the game at all, really). Koshi I don't have much to read since his entire filter is yelling at DI and oatsmaster. I don't think you can call him scum for being frustrated with DI or with oats. But it would be much better if he would post about something other than those fights.
I wouldn't say he's scum for evading, because he's been responding to things in the thread etc; but he needs to move past the DI thing and step it up.
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Hey guys
On phone today so I'll be less active in pms than I was for the past several days.
I want my house to pm me though and explain who they want me to vote for and why.
Currently I'm not liking clarity as a lynch target anymore. I also don't want to lynch oatsmaster. It looks like the sol case is winding down a bit but I will retread those parts before the lynch.
More later
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On August 10 2013 05:58 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 05:55 Acrofales wrote:On August 10 2013 05:51 yamato77 wrote:
Most of SNB's contribution to the game consists of making a big deal out of some rolename controversy within his own house on N0. Aside from complaining that Clarity unwittingly ruined some sort of plan (lolwhatever), there's almost nothing of substance in his filter aside from a townread on Dandel (like that means anything).
His activity also fits in with his scum meta-activity as evidenced by the same sort of lurky and somewhat disinterested play he exhibited in Sicilian. He's set himself up so that he is voting for who his house wants to vote for, conveniently absolving himself of any true scumhunting in-thread. In a previous encounter, a jousting match at Castle PTP, he was largely unavailable and never contributed anything of value, yet was town. Not to say that I encourage that behaviour, but I'm not sure it's sufficient for murdering him. So how do you advise we treat the SnB situation, then, Acro? Let him lurk into LYLO? It's not like he's an incompetent town player. If he's town, he's good enough to show it.
idiot
i'm busier today than i was yesterday. that doesn't mean im lurking. i just coutned, i have sent 123 PMs this game. so fuck you saying i'm scum for inactivity.
also you should know better than this. my activity is just as bad when i'm town as it is when i'm scum. if not worse. you are making up things to suit your agenda and i woudl be down to lynch or vig you.
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i also wouldn't mind lynching acro for playing in character.
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On August 10 2013 06:07 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 06:04 strongandbig wrote:On August 10 2013 05:58 yamato77 wrote:On August 10 2013 05:55 Acrofales wrote:On August 10 2013 05:51 yamato77 wrote:
Most of SNB's contribution to the game consists of making a big deal out of some rolename controversy within his own house on N0. Aside from complaining that Clarity unwittingly ruined some sort of plan (lolwhatever), there's almost nothing of substance in his filter aside from a townread on Dandel (like that means anything).
His activity also fits in with his scum meta-activity as evidenced by the same sort of lurky and somewhat disinterested play he exhibited in Sicilian. He's set himself up so that he is voting for who his house wants to vote for, conveniently absolving himself of any true scumhunting in-thread. In a previous encounter, a jousting match at Castle PTP, he was largely unavailable and never contributed anything of value, yet was town. Not to say that I encourage that behaviour, but I'm not sure it's sufficient for murdering him. So how do you advise we treat the SnB situation, then, Acro? Let him lurk into LYLO? It's not like he's an incompetent town player. If he's town, he's good enough to show it. idiot i'm busier today than i was yesterday. that doesn't mean im lurking. i just coutned, i have sent 123 PMs this game. so fuck you saying i'm scum for inactivity. also you should know better than this. my activity is just as bad when i'm town as it is when i'm scum. if not worse. you are making up things to suit your agenda and i woudl be down to lynch or vig you. So "I do this as town, too!' is your only defense? Last time I heard that, a SCUM PLAYER was getting lynched D1 in Catch 22.
no you fucker my defense is that i have been way, way more active than many people in this game, including you.
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Right now I think I want to lynch onegu the most. I thought the pressure on him at the start was for a bad reason, but he didn't really do anything at all in the way of scumhunting when the pressure was taken off of him.
So ##vote: onegu
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id kinda be down with lynching risen. his first post was that bad and now he's spamming reads but i have no idea why he wants to lynch those people.
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if sharrant is scum lynch kush. his reads are only correct when he is scum. 100% meta tell (i was just scum on a team with him)
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okay i'm back after reading the previous ~45 pages of thread.
i've been camping with my girlfriend for the weekend. the limited activity was because (1) bad cell reception and more importantly (2) lack of interest in mafia when camping with my girlfriend.
I see that people are calling me scum because my activity dropped off, all i'll say to them for now is that if you think occasional inactivity is something I only show in scum games then you're either scum or lazy as fuck.
I want to talk specifically to what vivax said about my pms during night 1. It's true that I was very malleable as regards where to send the KP. The plan from iamperfection and rayn was made while I was gone, and I hadn't read the thread at that point. I sent in the KP after reading gumshoe's filter and deciding that he was a good enough choice for a lurker shot, and I sent it as soon as I finished reading the thread because I was something like half an hour late for my assigned time slot, and didn't want to fuck up their plan for sending in the KP sequentially.
But anyway, it seems the reason most people have been calling me scum isn't for anything I did, but for stopping paying attention to the game over the weekend. So the best way to shut that down is to start caring/paying attention, no?
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So here's what I want to talk about - why has Risen been getting a pass today? I don't even care about him being lord. It sounds completely reasonable that he would be chosen since his house was worried Rayne would die (although it seems like a better plan would have been for three to vote Rayne and Risen to vote himself, that way if Ryan dies Risen would be the next lord automatically). Anyway, we should be pressuring Risen for what's in his filter.
(1) The big entry post - I talked some about this before, but it's total bullshit.
He attacked Oats, Yamato, and DI for playing anti-town, shitting up the thread, fighting over nothing, etc. The problem is, this is exactly what they do EVERY GAME. Oats argues over stupid things, Yamato is touchy as fuck, and DI is the most anti-town town player possible. They are the very definition of easy targets for scum to attack exactly like Risen did - but Risen should have known better than to call them scum and push for their lynch off of it.
(aside: On August 09 2013 03:27 Risen wrote:Oats is scum, Yamato is null The funny thing is that prior to looking into the filters I thought Yamato would come across as more scummy than Oats, and gave kush a pass while reading through because of that. Connection theory! Reads like scum not wanting to either attack their buddy or directly defending them. Although Yamato is super touchy, it is more out of character for him to take a fight so far in the fucking-the-thread direction than it is for Oats to do so, and Risen doesn't actually give any reasons why he thinks Yamato is a better scum target than Oats, he just asserts that his filter looks better.)
In that post, he also calls Xatalos scum based on what boils down in part to a connection theory with his bullshit read on DI. Connection theories with unflipped (or un-scumclaimed) players? Okay, can be done by town, but shouldn't, another easy way for scum to generate reads.
Another thing - just look at that post in general. It's huge, so he must be town right? (just ask austinmcc!) Nope, wrong! A large part of the post is stream-of-consciousness, much easier to write than an actual structured case. Also it's a list-post, shorter reads on large numbers of people, easy for scum to do and looks big. Most of the reads in the post are "easy reads" for scum to make, attacking people for playing in an anti-town fashion rather than for actually being scum and attacking other people for invented reasons. A lot of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
The rest of his posting shows much less effort put into analyzing the game. An example is how Clarity is still his preferred lynch target in his final posts before N1, despite a lot more information being put into the thread and a lot more public discussion among the principals of that situation. He hasn't made any real cases since his first post, and he hasn't actually followed up on his DI, xatalos, or grackaroni reads. From the clear and huge difference in effort between his first post and the rest of his filter, it's clear that his first post was very much constructed and careful, which imo is a scum thing to do; additionally, the fact that he was careful and put effort into just writing that post makes it even more suspect that his reads in it were so obviously bad in such a specifically scummy way.
So yeah, what I want to hear next is from people who've been in PMs with Risen, whether he's given more to them in terms of reads, cases, and indications that he's actually thinking carefully about the game than he has been in the thread.
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On August 13 2013 01:41 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 01:26 strongandbig wrote:
okay i'm back after reading the previous ~45 pages of thread.
i've been camping with my girlfriend for the weekend. the limited activity was because (1) bad cell reception and more importantly (2) lack of interest in mafia when camping with my girlfriend.
I see that people are calling me scum because my activity dropped off, all i'll say to them for now is that if you think occasional inactivity is something I only show in scum games then you're either scum or lazy as fuck.
I want to talk specifically to what vivax said about my pms during night 1. It's true that I was very malleable as regards where to send the KP. The plan from iamperfection and rayn was made while I was gone, and I hadn't read the thread at that point. I sent in the KP after reading gumshoe's filter and deciding that he was a good enough choice for a lurker shot, and I sent it as soon as I finished reading the thread because I was something like half an hour late for my assigned time slot, and didn't want to fuck up their plan for sending in the KP sequentially.
But anyway, it seems the reason most people have been calling me scum isn't for anything I did, but for stopping paying attention to the game over the weekend. So the best way to shut that down is to start caring/paying attention, no? Yet another paragon of useful contribution. After reading 45 pages you must have something to say about the CONTENT of those pages, no? The Redwyne fleet is ready to sail north and stab you in the face.
typing bro
i see no reason to talk abotu the yamato situation since he claimed scum and we're killing him. cool that sharrant chose a good target. i thought some about shooting yamato but since i didnt do it and didn't actually push him it doesn't matter. if you're trying to decide whether i'm scum, make sure you think a little bit about his push on me, also, and explain how we could be teammates before you shoot me. i mean obviously its possible that he was trying to bus me, but i would argue scum would be unlikely to bus their teammate who won a lordship and then was not going to be active enough to defend himself until after a full round of vig shots.
i see no real reason to talk about the oberyn fakeclaim situation either. actually, here's something - i would say that the scum roleblocker may not have claimed because he knew oberyn and onegu were lying (either onegu or oberyn being scum in that case) but it's also possible that they were inactive. it seems unlikely that they would have called their bluff completely, given that jk is such a good fakeclaim for that scenario and that it was mentioned in the thread, but that can't be ruled out either. so i don't think we can be like "omg someone leaked the plan lynch into oberyn and onegu". That said, it does make them deserving of some extra scrutiny as compared to any random person in the game, i guess. so yeah there you go, a paragraph where i don't really say anything, happy?
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On August 13 2013 01:07 Oatsmaster wrote:
He didnt discuss the shot with me as far as I can see through our PMs.
He did say 1 interesting thing though, he said he didnt want to be lord because he needed to get his obv town status back. And that he wants to be lord day 3.
thats not actually what i said, i said i didnt want to be lord because i wasn't going to be active enough during the day phase (aka, i was going to be gone yesterday). otherwise that's pretty much correct though.
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i'm confused about the grackaroni situation. am i missing something he posted in thread that he shouldn't have known? Or has this all happened in pms?
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rayn can you explain why you have a town read on risen?
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On August 13 2013 03:20 Oberyn wrote:
You might want to edit out that PM if it is a direct quote.
you can quote yourself right?
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On August 13 2013 03:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 03:22 strongandbig wrote:
rayn can you explain why you have a town read on risen?
Do you really think his first reads post could come from scum!Risen? Basically because of that.
yes i do and i said why did you read my post?
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iamperfection your read on risen seemed like it was mostly based on his effort in his one long post, at least that's what you said in pms with me on day1. You also said you were going to read some of his old games, did you do that?
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On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 03:31 strongandbig wrote:On August 13 2013 03:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 13 2013 03:22 strongandbig wrote:
rayn can you explain why you have a town read on risen?
Do you really think his first reads post could come from scum!Risen? Basically because of that. yes i do and i said why did you read my post? Yes i read your post. First you say Risen is scum for calling out anti-town behavior (Oats/yamato/DI). not for calling out anti-town behavior. For calling people "scum" because they're playing badly as town, not because of actual behaviors that indicate they are scum. On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: Sounds good. You are also saying he should know their meta. Afaik the guy has had a long break from mafia (correct me if i am wrong here). People (aside me) tend to forget how people play in games, just look at Titanic where i was trying to confirm Oats in a way or another from the game he played a couple of weeks ago. Didn´t work. So calling out anti-town behavior without looking into players last games makes him mafia?
well, if he really had forgotten everything about those players then my "should have known better" point wouldn't be correct. I don't think it's that easy to forget things like "this player gets in fights" or especially to forget dandel ion. but anyway, even if that is the case - there's still the fact that an experienced player would, if they were town, know that townies get in fights and fuck up the thread too, and that spamming doesn't make you scum. Come on rayn, making cases against bad play rather than scum-motivated play is scum 101 and that's what risen was doing here, whether or not he knew anyone's meta.
On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Then there is a connection case. You said townies can do that too. That´s right. Did you check if Risen does that as town? As scum? At least you didn´t tell that in your case. If you are gonna tell Risen is scum for something both town/mafia do, at least provide some evidence.
that's why this was a minor point, it's something that both town and scum do but scum are more likely to do it than townies are. On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Huge post - makes him scum how? i never said it did, i was trying to explain why it doesn't make him town. On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
"Easy reads" for anti town behavior - makes him scum how?
duh. if someone is choosing easy targets and making easy cases against them, it's because that person is not actually trying to find real scum but just trying to look like they are. On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
How is Risen´s post "constructed and careful"?
compare it to the entire rest of his filter. he obviously spent more time on that post than on anything else he's done - it's much longer, but also (for example) he uses quotes more (the only place he uses quotes as examples rather than things to respond to). and yet he spends all that effort making terrible, scummy reads. On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
The only thing that holds water in your post is that he has not explained / pursued his reads. Fuck, a half of the playerbase doesn´t even seem to have reads. If you think Risen´s reads are bad, why don´t you question him on them? Instead you want to hear from people who have been in contact with him?? Why? Why not from him?
i want to hear from people who have been in contact with him because maybe he's been putting more effort into his reads and the game outside of the thread. those people can give me information that i can't get from reading his filter. i fully expect him to answer my case but i shouldn't have to ask for it specifically, should i?
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On August 13 2013 04:59 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 04:56 Xatalos wrote:On August 13 2013 04:47 Risen wrote:
I may not have written it in the case, but that would have simply weakened my case and distracted from it. I felt the interaction between you two was important. That's not very concrete so it didn't make the post.
Something that bothers me is that there wasn't really ever a response to my last case. Just a bunch of that's stupid posts along with he's crazy town now. People are now suspecting DI openly in thread. Why? Why now when you didn't respond to my case before? I don't even.. How can my connection with DI be your ONLY reason for suspecting him when you made a whole case against him without even mentioning me at all? Your thought patterns are so full of holes. The reason why nobody took your post seriously was because it was too bad to consider. There have been people suspecting DI all game for different (bad) reasons. The situation hasn't really changed to any direction. Acro isn't even really suspecting him now I think, just softpushing him in case he gets a chance to vote for him at some point. Oh, I'm suspecting him. There's just no point in jumping the gun and yelling HE'S A BLACKFYRE and waving my arms when there are still a minimum of 80 hours before we can do anything about it.
the point is persuading the lords who to lordshoot, that is less than 80 hours away right? thats why im still going on about risen atm anyway
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On August 13 2013 05:42 Risen wrote:
...
How this reads to me...
"Oh, I wasn't expecting to be revealed as a cop even though I told someone I couldn't possibly know was town I was a cop thereby potentially opening myself up to a kill from scum negating my entire role! In case he was mafia I lied and said I would target kush right after explaining to the thread that kush was initially a target and could possibly be scum and as I don't know acro is town he could very well have mafia kill me for that!"
If that isn't the worst explanation of something I have ever seen in a mafia game I don't know what is. He later says a scum Acro might have been trying to push him off Kush, but why not just kill you instead? Why doesn't scum look at that and say, "Well he claims to be one shot, but what if he can actually reuse the ability?" then kill him. A town cop doesn't not see this possibility. This only comes up when a scum team member trying to emulate a cop slips up. this is actually a decent point imo, by far the best point in this post and something we should actually make sharrant explain.
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1. Main thing sharrant still hasn't answered IMO is why he claimed to acro without worrying that he would get killed. He said he lied about his target in case acro was scum, so it can't be because he had such a strong town read on acro that he was willing to risk his whole blue role on it.
2. Vivax misstating the case against him. When I get to my computer I'll explain or maybe copy some pms I sent to clarity and oats.
3. Risen! Kill with fire. Just cause he had one food point on sharrant doesn't make him town, read my first case on him for the reasons why his filter makes him scum.
@onegu fuck you how have I disappeared. It's been night phase when we were not allowed to post. Derplord.
@vivax read the thread koshis argument is that when mocsta calls koshi scum for attacking jrkirby's filter, it's a scummy chainsaw defense because mocsta should be able to see how onjectively scummy jrkirby's filter looks regardless of what mocsta/jrkirby's actual alignment is.
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Scum killed three people who were going to be lords Day 2. Oatsmaster very odd choice otherwise IMO, he didnt breadcrumb afaik and I don't think he was readable as blue. Also 3/3 too much to be coincidence.
at least 1 of those people (oats) were not going to be lords today cause we elected clarity.
It seems likely scum was finishing off the people they split KP onto night 1. Makes me think they did not know the hp check before choosing their KP. Killing lords a possible scum tactic to produce confusion among town, disrupt "town circle" of lord pms. Possible that kill on gumshoe really did come from town vig instead of mole giving scum the hp checks.
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[green]If someone did not vote in lord elections last night would they have been modkilled?
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On August 14 2013 23:36 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 23:17 strongandbig wrote:
1. Main thing sharrant still hasn't answered IMO is why he claimed to acro without worrying that he would get killed. He said he lied about his target in case acro was scum, so it can't be because he had such a strong town read on acro that he was willing to risk his whole blue role on it.
2. Vivax misstating the case against him. When I get to my computer I'll explain or maybe copy some pms I sent to clarity and oats.
3. Risen! Kill with fire. Just cause he had one food point on sharrant doesn't make him town, read my first case on him for the reasons why his filter makes him scum.
@onegu fuck you how have I disappeared. It's been night phase when we were not allowed to post. Derplord.
@vivax read the thread koshis argument is that when mocsta calls koshi scum for attacking jrkirby's filter, it's a scummy chainsaw defense because mocsta should be able to see how onjectively scummy jrkirby's filter looks regardless of what mocsta/jrkirby's actual alignment is. Grow up you were gone 8 pages before night post, and 8 pages since day post, you havent been around much. Also your overreaction to clairity passing your role name along. And your random vote on me for no reason day one made me feel scum on you. And you got active after people started tomcall you scum, sure it maybe random chance, but with everything else you are scummy to me.
the causal connection is that people started calling me scum after i left. obviously once i came back it was going to be after people started calling me scum. and we have like 50 page days, so i missed 8 pages, boo hoo.
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On August 14 2013 23:57 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 23:46 Sharrant wrote:
Fucking phone ate my post. Here we go again.
@SnB
I was very confident in my read on acro, but I'm not stupid. I used my claim to confirm we had the same thought process, we did. The lie was to cover my ass if he was mafia.
Why wouldn't he shoot me? It's likely that mafia have some sort of framing mechanic in play. If he could guide me to a framed target either:
A) I give a green check on a mafia and give him town cred and if he ever dies I likely get lynched immediately. No shot needed for my death and if I flip before the mafia he gets cred to last to lylo.
B) I give a red check on a townie. He gets lynched. I get lynched. Town Just lost two lynches, and scum are free to shoot whoever they please.
On top of that I have the ability to pm two other people. He has to assume I told them to lynch him if I was rb'ed or killed. (i didn't though, because if either of them were mafia it could get both of us killed if he's town and johnny or kush was scum. He would have had to gamble either way, but one is safer and has higher reward and that option is framing. I agree with this logic actually. Acro as scum wouldn't probably expect to be fooled with the check target (since you already told him you were a Cop) and it would be so much better to frame your target than kill you. In addition, if you told anyone else that you were going to tell Acro, it would cast too much doubt on Acro to kill you then (since there wouldn't really have been any other reason to kill you).
yeah agreed this is a more decent reasoning than i'd expected. ofc if scum dont have a framer and acro is scum then you're dead. but that makes two "if your read/setup speculation is wrong" rather than one and i'm more comfortable with accepting this as town reasoning.
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Anyway here's what I said to clarity about vivax, and it's what makes me think he's scum that has nothing to do with activity:
also i feel like vivax's reads change a lot and he's not nearly as aggressive as usual when he's town. if you look at his reads, for the lynch/kp target he goes koshi->sharrant->koshi->yamato->yamato or johnnywup->koshi or me
most of the time his reasons were switching were "it doesn't seem like i can convince lords to go for my scumread." That doesn't feel like vivax, he seems like the kind of person who rages when people don't listen to him rather than the kind of person who just says "okay moving on".
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On August 15 2013 00:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 23:59 strongandbig wrote:On August 14 2013 23:57 Xatalos wrote:On August 14 2013 23:46 Sharrant wrote:
Fucking phone ate my post. Here we go again.
@SnB
I was very confident in my read on acro, but I'm not stupid. I used my claim to confirm we had the same thought process, we did. The lie was to cover my ass if he was mafia.
Why wouldn't he shoot me? It's likely that mafia have some sort of framing mechanic in play. If he could guide me to a framed target either:
A) I give a green check on a mafia and give him town cred and if he ever dies I likely get lynched immediately. No shot needed for my death and if I flip before the mafia he gets cred to last to lylo.
B) I give a red check on a townie. He gets lynched. I get lynched. Town Just lost two lynches, and scum are free to shoot whoever they please.
On top of that I have the ability to pm two other people. He has to assume I told them to lynch him if I was rb'ed or killed. (i didn't though, because if either of them were mafia it could get both of us killed if he's town and johnny or kush was scum. He would have had to gamble either way, but one is safer and has higher reward and that option is framing. I agree with this logic actually. Acro as scum wouldn't probably expect to be fooled with the check target (since you already told him you were a Cop) and it would be so much better to frame your target than kill you. In addition, if you told anyone else that you were going to tell Acro, it would cast too much doubt on Acro to kill you then (since there wouldn't really have been any other reason to kill you). yeah agreed this is a more decent reasoning than i'd expected. ofc if scum dont have a framer and acro is scum then you're dead. but that makes two "if your read/setup speculation is wrong" rather than one and i'm more comfortable with accepting this as town reasoning. lol, the whole thing Sharrant is saying relies on the fact that there is a framer, and you don't want to setup speculate??!?!?!?
thats not what i said
sharrant's thing relies on him thinking there was a framer. not that there actually was a framer.
christ rayn use your head for once. think about something before you make a big deal about it. it was the same with your stupid attack on onegu right from the start, i'm almost starting to think there is something to you being scum.
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On August 14 2013 15:06 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Also we are lynching Vivax today.
rayn why did you say this. before it I see nothing in your filter about a read on vivax.
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yeah that's one line in a long list of reads that you sent in a pm. That doesn't count as an actual explanation or an actual argument, and the fact that you would even point to that gives me a bad feeling.
Prior to that your scum reads are me and onegu, neither of which you actually explain in any detail other than the "misunderstanding" with onegu that you drop eventually. in fact this mocsta thing is close to the second time you actually give reasons other than "he hasn't done anything" for a scum read in this entire game.
why vivax? Why not me? Why not onegu? srsly
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On August 15 2013 01:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 01:29 strongandbig wrote:yeah that's one line in a long list of reads that you sent in a pm. That doesn't count as an actual explanation or an actual argument, and the fact that you would even point to that gives me a bad feeling. Prior to that your scum reads are me and onegu, neither of which you actually explain in any detail other than the "misunderstanding" with onegu that you drop eventually. in fact this mocsta thing is close to the second time you actually give reasons other than "he hasn't done anything" for a scum read in this entire game. why vivax? Why not me? Why not onegu? srsly What game are you reading? I have explained my scumread on Onegu. I have explained my scumread on you. I have explained all my reads and all the explanations are in thread. Why are you not reading the thread?
on onegu:
Onegu - Onegu has not done anything. Lika anything at all. If you look at his posts he is entering rendom discussions for what? To have nothing to say. Look at when he tells he has already given his thoughts about Solstice & Clarity. His conclusion on Solstice is "we need to hear from him". Right. On Clarity he redacted from his town read because he was not willing find out about role names. So his whole discussion & conclusion is worthless. Now he is trying to figure out FirmTofu. Nothing on that front. scum.
"hasn't done anything"
You clearly do not think much or you are scum, Onegu.
not a reason
Onegu you asked me about my read on SnB.
I am a bit puzzled. All i say is "i think SnB is scum" and you move on to completely different matters. Why is that? Did my answer please you enough?
as it stands this is not a reason. if you think onegu isn't following up on his reads or that he's being scummily noncommittal then say so, but this is not enough to justify a main scum suspicion.
I think Onegu is scum so do not necessarily trust him. What was the case?
not a reason
On me:
SnB voting for onegu bothers me a bit.
not a reason
I think SnB is scum
not a reason
What about SnB? The only thing i remember him doing was the bullshit info-hide with Clarity and Oats, and i think those two are town. Has he really been as active in PM´s as he claims? I have ~5 PM´s from him.
"hasn't done anything"
I didn´t think about this earlier, but after rereading my stuff with SnB it was really weird. He started the PM´s asking me if my suspicion on "this 'ft' guy has weakened". The PM looked somewhat roleplay, so i thought he was RPing. Apparently he wasn't. Is there anyone else who didn't figure out who i was talking about in my post (apparently Risen was lol)?
not a reason
I think there is also something fishy in Clarity/SnB/Oats stuff. Remember when people were accusing Clarity for his reaction test? That rant went on for hours and hours just because "someone had a townread on Clarity for some reasons". Why not just fucking out the read to get people discuss it? Then Oats' read was REALLY REALLY weak. You remember the reasons?
i guess this maybe counts as a reason? Is this really why you think I'm scum? I didn't even know about the reason for oats's read, I just knew he had fakeclaimed to clarity and clarity's reaction made him think clarity was town. I'm scum because i didn't tell you about oats's fakeclaim to clarity before oats said to? this is retarded.
yeah i know what game i'm reading. what game are you playing?
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On August 15 2013 01:40 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 23:17 strongandbig wrote:
1. Main thing sharrant still hasn't answered IMO is why he claimed to acro without worrying that he would get killed. He said he lied about his target in case acro was scum, so it can't be because he had such a strong town read on acro that he was willing to risk his whole blue role on it.
2. Vivax misstating the case against him. When I get to my computer I'll explain or maybe copy some pms I sent to clarity and oats.
3. Risen! Kill with fire. Just cause he had one food point on sharrant doesn't make him town, read my first case on him for the reasons why his filter makes him scum.
@onegu fuck you how have I disappeared. It's been night phase when we were not allowed to post. Derplord.
@vivax read the thread koshis argument is that when mocsta calls koshi scum for attacking jrkirby's filter, it's a scummy chainsaw defense because mocsta should be able to see how onjectively scummy jrkirby's filter looks regardless of what mocsta/jrkirby's actual alignment is. And you think Koshi's argument is good? If so, what's your opinion on lynching him? I don't know what you want to achieve tbh. Do you want Mocsta to answer for the posts of jkirby?Do you want him to admit that his slot is scummy? That's not the way to get alignment indicative information.
no i posted that because it makes me unhappy when people are being dumb and misinterpreting things in the thread. i don't want to kill the koshi today, i want to lynch you or ryan.
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On August 15 2013 01:55 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 01:46 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 01:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 15 2013 01:29 strongandbig wrote:yeah that's one line in a long list of reads that you sent in a pm. That doesn't count as an actual explanation or an actual argument, and the fact that you would even point to that gives me a bad feeling. Prior to that your scum reads are me and onegu, neither of which you actually explain in any detail other than the "misunderstanding" with onegu that you drop eventually. in fact this mocsta thing is close to the second time you actually give reasons other than "he hasn't done anything" for a scum read in this entire game. why vivax? Why not me? Why not onegu? srsly What game are you reading? I have explained my scumread on Onegu. I have explained my scumread on you. I have explained all my reads and all the explanations are in thread. Why are you not reading the thread? on onegu: Onegu - Onegu has not done anything. Lika anything at all. If you look at his posts he is entering rendom discussions for what? To have nothing to say. Look at when he tells he has already given his thoughts about Solstice & Clarity. His conclusion on Solstice is "we need to hear from him". Right. On Clarity he redacted from his town read because he was not willing find out about role names. So his whole discussion & conclusion is worthless. Now he is trying to figure out FirmTofu. Nothing on that front. scum. "hasn't done anything" You clearly do not think much or you are scum, Onegu. not a reason Onegu you asked me about my read on SnB.
I am a bit puzzled. All i say is "i think SnB is scum" and you move on to completely different matters. Why is that? Did my answer please you enough? as it stands this is not a reason. if you think onegu isn't following up on his reads or that he's being scummily noncommittal then say so, but this is not enough to justify a main scum suspicion. I think Onegu is scum so do not necessarily trust him. What was the case? not a reason On me: SnB voting for onegu bothers me a bit. not a reason I think SnB is scum not a reason What about SnB? The only thing i remember him doing was the bullshit info-hide with Clarity and Oats, and i think those two are town. Has he really been as active in PM´s as he claims? I have ~5 PM´s from him. "hasn't done anything" I didn´t think about this earlier, but after rereading my stuff with SnB it was really weird. He started the PM´s asking me if my suspicion on "this 'ft' guy has weakened". The PM looked somewhat roleplay, so i thought he was RPing. Apparently he wasn't. Is there anyone else who didn't figure out who i was talking about in my post (apparently Risen was lol)? not a reason I think there is also something fishy in Clarity/SnB/Oats stuff. Remember when people were accusing Clarity for his reaction test? That rant went on for hours and hours just because "someone had a townread on Clarity for some reasons". Why not just fucking out the read to get people discuss it? Then Oats' read was REALLY REALLY weak. You remember the reasons? i guess this maybe counts as a reason? Is this really why you think I'm scum? I didn't even know about the reason for oats's read, I just knew he had fakeclaimed to clarity and clarity's reaction made him think clarity was town. I'm scum because i didn't tell you about oats's fakeclaim to clarity before oats said to? this is retarded. yeah i know what game i'm reading. what game are you playing? lol dude, you are funny. Onegu: Has (apparently) been active/townie in PM's. Noone to prove that any more and Oberyn would not tell me why before he died. None of this towniness comes up in thread (barring late D2 when he was saying good stuff). How is this not clear? You: You quoted my read on you. You also LEFT OUT THE FUCKING CONCLUSION! Which was btw this: Show nested quote +After all i think SnB comes out from this as most scummiest. He should have taken the leader position as town and stop the bullshit. Oats, other than that post of his looks town to me. This is traditional Oats´ townplay, he is fucking off and saying stupid stuff. Clarity looks fairly town to me aswell, he is somewhat making sense, especially with his reads. IMO Clarity is amongst the people who have scumhunted the most at the time. I could kill like half of the town for not scumhunting. Other than this you have not done shit. Period.
yeah that's the same stuff as the other thing i quoted. I'm scum for not revealing oats's fakeclaim gambit before he did. After I accused clarity of being scum for not asking me about my plan before he messed with it. Really, get your shit together.
and "you haven't done anything" is both a lie and not a real argument.
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On August 15 2013 01:58 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 00:55 Vivax wrote:On August 14 2013 23:36 Xatalos wrote:On August 14 2013 22:28 Vivax wrote:Xatalos, the most recent reasoning for lynching Risen I found is this: I think snb might actually be town because I had this exact same thought (although less fleshed out) just a bit earlier. Risen's first post was so bad and yet so much effort was put in it. After that... Almost nothing. No follow-up to his first post or anything. No pushing his reads. There's a clear difference between the effort in his first post and everything after that.
Give me an updated bullet list of your points against him please, there's much more to go with than just the quantity of his posts in the beginning. While you're at it, give me a reason for me being scum that hasn't to do with activity, cause that's probably the reason 99 % in here have for thinking I'm scum. You're just skating by and targeting popular lynch targets, the latest case you wrote was on jkirby, and that was upon Acrofales' request. You're clearly not reading very closely. That was just my second post against Risen, with almost the same content as the first one. I had more after that, like his contradictory statements about his scumreads on me and DI (and also his push for Sharrant didn't feel right, nor his faulty logic with his original accusations and how he never followed up on them). iamperfection initially got me suspicious of you. Here's a summary of his opinions (from the last will post): "Vivax- so i reread what he posted after i told him i think he is scum. Fucker still has not had a single strong push the entire game. vivax should be leading the town or fighting me if im wrong about sompething he simply does not care what is going on and isnt trying to catch scum. He does this because he is scum" Basically, lack of genuine effort, pushing, involvement... Not just lack of activity. Lynchworthy for sure. After some PM'ing with Clarity I'm not as confident in Risen being scum anymore. He's generally crazy and it's hard to distinguish between crazy town and crazy scum. Maybe his faulty logic is explained by his general lack of logical thinking. For now it might be a better idea to lynch you, s0Lstice, snb or Mocsta (unless he keeps up his clear effort, which isn't very easy to do as scum). Effort, pushing, involvement. You mention things that aren't very empiric, so to say. You don't show if I'm pushing scum agenda, you don't quote particular posts, you say it's not activity, but you don't tell how you measure the three attributes you think make me scum when they are usually correlated to activity. The case on me is bullshit, I'm town, and I have yet to see a case with a clear line of thought that doesn't use activity as argument. I invite you to make one based on the content of my posts, and I'll dunk it, and you afterwards if you fuck up. I don't see what you mean with contradictory statements from Risen. You posted that he was wrong about you and Dandel, afterwards you posted this: On August 09 2013 21:21 Xatalos wrote:
I agree that Risen is quite likely town (unfortunately, one might also say).
So I wonder now, why do you mention something that is supposed to make him scum when in the past it wasn't reason enough and you gave him a townread in spite of what you call a contradiction now. Activity is an excellent argument. I am a true believer in simply lynching anybody who produces significantly less pages of filter than in his average town game. It works for me, it works for Hapa and I have no doubt it works for you. But here's what I compiled on you and was going to post before I saw you responded. Regarding Vivax, he has been inactive as fuck. Usually he spams up the thread being an obnoxious dick when he's town, forcing people to listen to him. He either gets lynched himself, or nails most of the scum. As scum he is more subdued and cooperative. This game fits neither, because he is just plain afk. However, there's some things that indicate he's a scummy fuck: Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 05:28 Acrofales wrote:Hrmmm, playing a game of elimination, Vivax is the remaining member of House Stark. On August 09 2013 00:06 Vivax wrote:On August 08 2013 21:20 Koshi wrote:On August 08 2013 19:55 Oatsmaster wrote:On August 08 2013 19:47 Koshi wrote:
@ Oats. Tell me why you have townreads on your house. Don't use names but you can at least tell us WHY they are town. It's impossible to actually know if somebody is town in your house. At this point I think Oats his house is filled with scum only. Why I have townreads on the dudes? Cause they are nice and helpful and shit. No obvious scummy pms, natural. Nothing like your house, controversy everywhere. On August 08 2013 21:12 Oatsmaster wrote:On August 08 2013 21:06 Xatalos wrote:Oats, why do you have a scumread on Koshi again? Because this post before claiming him as scum doesn't really explain it: On August 08 2013 19:47 Oatsmaster wrote:Oats, we just played in Titanic and you come in this thread and say that you know that everybody in your house is town and that you will protect their identity? You must be really REALLY confident in this game.
You prevent us to find scum in your house and you prevent your house by talking about how you got elected or prevent them from giving away information about you. Um what? My reads were mostly right in Titanic. 1 wrong read. whatever. I only prevent you from knowing who I can contact through pms. All this other stuff is really weird. I didnt get elected. koshi didnt explain why dandel's actions was scum, when all the things he said seem to be townie to me, like agressive and shit. Killing kush was probably a joke, dunno. Also, he didnt explain why im scum. This whole statement is bullshit. You prevent us to find scum in your house and you prevent your house by talking about how you got elected or prevent them from giving away information about you. Its not what Im doing at all. And its really weird that this is the conclusion that he drew from my statements so far. 1) Oats townreads are either "nice and shit" or "agressive and shit". 2) Oats does not realise that this game is 6 pages long instead of 20. 3) Oats calls me scum if I point out he is shitting up the thread. 4) Oats does not answer me when I ask him who should be lord in our house in theory, but then wants me to explain to him why I find DI scummy over S0lstice. Here is my first real scumread. This is not concise reasoning for Oats being scum, The first two don't seem relevant, and I'm not sure that he's calling you scum just for 3). 4 is him being an ass to you, isn't necessarily alignment indicative. Do you really think he's scum for those reasons? To me it looks like you're angry at him and calling him scum for that. If you think he's scum then I want to see a clear line of thought in reaching that conclusion. I would like to see any reasons you have for your scumreads to be presented in a concise case with no waffle, especially with material from the thread that's available to everyone. I'm not willing to take anything you and Dandel say regarding lies and inconsistencies during the night at face value until there are members of your house to present their version of events between you two. This seems like a really strange soft-defense of Oatsmaster. Either he was completely oblivious to the goings on in his own house, or he had a town read based on that. I am confused about why he stood up to defend Oatsmaster's honor: he's not calling Koshi scum based on it, in fact there are no conclusions at all. With the knowledge that he had already talked to Oats in private this just looks like a baseless soft-defense of a house member who it seems he should have been suspicious of. Anybody from House Stark (or Vivax himself) want to elaborate on Vivax's role in the internal politicking? Vivax, why did you make this soft-defense post of Oats? His response was to say that he suspected Koshi, but that doesn't seem to be the main point of this post at all. More just buddying up to Oats. We then have: Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 03:13 Vivax wrote:On August 10 2013 02:53 Sharrant wrote:
Hey, Vivax, you're the perfect one to answer this. You actually hydra'ed with Kush. The question was whether Kush says 'fags' normally. Does he? You would know much better than I.
I can only tell you that Kush likes the word ANAL. I prefer not having to draw conclusions from someone using specific derogative terms. You could let him do a IAT with town-scum categories and have him post the results here, that would be serious shit. Is there anyone specific you're trying to present to your lord for lynching? Posting this makes no sense, other than, again, as a soft-defense. Why even bring this up? I am having a hard time wrapping my mind around why a loyalist would point this out. From a Blackfyre point of view it's obvious: it's a "look guys, I'm posting" post, with the added bonus of maybe sidetracking the thread and any discussion about kush. The main point in Vivax's favour is Clarity defending him, saying he seemed convinced Yamato was scum in private. Nothing ever seems to have come from this private read. I would like Clarity to elaborate.
On August 14 2013 23:59 strongandbig wrote:
Anyway here's what I said to clarity about vivax, and it's what makes me think he's scum that has nothing to do with activity:
also i feel like vivax's reads change a lot and he's not nearly as aggressive as usual when he's town. if you look at his reads, for the lynch/kp target he goes koshi->sharrant->koshi->yamato->yamato or johnnywup->koshi or me
most of the time his reasons were switching were "it doesn't seem like i can convince lords to go for my scumread." That doesn't feel like vivax, he seems like the kind of person who rages when people don't listen to him rather than the kind of person who just says "okay moving on".
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On August 15 2013 02:11 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 23:59 strongandbig wrote:
Anyway here's what I said to clarity about vivax, and it's what makes me think he's scum that has nothing to do with activity:
also i feel like vivax's reads change a lot and he's not nearly as aggressive as usual when he's town. if you look at his reads, for the lynch/kp target he goes koshi->sharrant->koshi->yamato->yamato or johnnywup->koshi or me
most of the time his reasons were switching were "it doesn't seem like i can convince lords to go for my scumread." That doesn't feel like vivax, he seems like the kind of person who rages when people don't listen to him rather than the kind of person who just says "okay moving on". You were in Sicilian, you should know from logs that I can be quite malleable. Just your first post was so bad that I never swayed from the opinion you were scum. This is a game where you don't have a voice unless lords listen to you. I posted my points on Koshi D1, Oberyn his on yammo. Lords preferred Onegu, then FT. I had no way of knowing what those guys were, except that Onegu claimed to be busy, hence I couldn't really speak up against their lynches either. Reads changing. That's not scummy unless you show it is.
@ ChromaticallyRisen was referring to my post on Onegu when he claimed I was defending people iirc.
it's not about having malleable reads, it's about how you stick up for the reads you do have
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On August 15 2013 02:28 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I am done talking with SnB. He is mafia.
Dandel explain? I have been PMing with Risen all game long, why is it impossible that i have a town read on him?
okay sure
i still don't know why you think i'm mafia except that i didn't reveal oats's fakeclaim when you were confused about it. but fine stopping interacting with me will make it better.
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On August 15 2013 02:29 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 02:26 Risen wrote:On August 15 2013 02:22 Acrofales wrote:On August 15 2013 01:15 Risen wrote:
So we have a claimed cop who didn't die last night with a red check on the clear lynch candidate for d2. Has anyone thought why there would be a one shot cop in this game when there's so many people? There isn't.
This is so simple a lynch. I told him in private that if he wasn't roleblocked or killed, he was scum. He has claimed roleblocked. I don't see a third roleblocked claim. The way the roleblock claims have worked out, it seems unlikely they are fake and it seems unlikely a town JK blocked him. So he was blocked by scum. Seems legit to me. How convenient. How useless. Can you for a second assume Sharrant is town and work from there? Your pointless tunneling of a townie is getting us nowhere.
#lynchrisen2013
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Playing insane does not make risen town. Calling me scum for saying his case had one good point is ridiculous - scum can have good and bad cases just like townies, if someone makes a good case it has to be looked at regardless of your read on that person. Anything else is just a connection between I flipped players, and this is just an easy reason to call me scum when I'm pushing him.
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Like, risen is also completely unwilling to even engage sharrant's answers to his case.
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On August 15 2013 04:19 Clarity_nl wrote:snb asked me in a pm why I think he's scum, and asked me to answer either in pm or thread, he doesn't seem happy with the "he's not doing anything" reason. So here it is, why snb is scum: 1) Low activity. It CAN be town, but it's more likely to be disinterested scum. 2) After being lord d1 snb suddenly does not want to be lord d2. He tells both me and oats the exact same phrase in pms "I want to run for lord n3 again, I want to re-earn my obv-towniness from n0" 3) Broken promises. This ties into point 2. He has not re-earned his "obv-towniness" at all. d2 he didn't do much, that's simply how it is. He had no presence in the thread at all, nor im pms. How about d3 you ask? He's pushed risen real hard you say? Let's look at his main post on risen shall we. + Show Spoiler +On August 13 2013 01:45 strongandbig wrote:So here's what I want to talk about - why has Risen been getting a pass today? I don't even care about him being lord. It sounds completely reasonable that he would be chosen since his house was worried Rayne would die (although it seems like a better plan would have been for three to vote Rayne and Risen to vote himself, that way if Ryan dies Risen would be the next lord automatically). Anyway, we should be pressuring Risen for what's in his filter. (1) The big entry post - I talked some about this before, but it's total bullshit. He attacked Oats, Yamato, and DI for playing anti-town, shitting up the thread, fighting over nothing, etc. The problem is, this is exactly what they do EVERY GAME. Oats argues over stupid things, Yamato is touchy as fuck, and DI is the most anti-town town player possible. They are the very definition of easy targets for scum to attack exactly like Risen did - but Risen should have known better than to call them scum and push for their lynch off of it. (aside: Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 03:27 Risen wrote:Oats is scum, Yamato is null The funny thing is that prior to looking into the filters I thought Yamato would come across as more scummy than Oats, and gave kush a pass while reading through because of that. Connection theory! Reads like scum not wanting to either attack their buddy or directly defending them. Although Yamato is super touchy, it is more out of character for him to take a fight so far in the fucking-the-thread direction than it is for Oats to do so, and Risen doesn't actually give any reasons why he thinks Yamato is a better scum target than Oats, he just asserts that his filter looks better.) In that post, he also calls Xatalos scum based on what boils down in part to a connection theory with his bullshit read on DI. Connection theories with unflipped (or un-scumclaimed) players? Okay, can be done by town, but shouldn't, another easy way for scum to generate reads. Another thing - just look at that post in general. It's huge, so he must be town right? (just ask austinmcc!) Nope, wrong! A large part of the post is stream-of-consciousness, much easier to write than an actual structured case. Also it's a list-post, shorter reads on large numbers of people, easy for scum to do and looks big. Most of the reads in the post are "easy reads" for scum to make, attacking people for playing in an anti-town fashion rather than for actually being scum and attacking other people for invented reasons. A lot of sound and fury, signifying nothing. The rest of his posting shows much less effort put into analyzing the game. An example is how Clarity is still his preferred lynch target in his final posts before N1, despite a lot more information being put into the thread and a lot more public discussion among the principals of that situation. He hasn't made any real cases since his first post, and he hasn't actually followed up on his DI, xatalos, or grackaroni reads. From the clear and huge difference in effort between his first post and the rest of his filter, it's clear that his first post was very much constructed and careful, which imo is a scum thing to do; additionally, the fact that he was careful and put effort into just writing that post makes it even more suspect that his reads in it were so obviously bad in such a specifically scummy way. So yeah, what I want to hear next is from people who've been in PMs with Risen, whether he's given more to them in terms of reads, cases, and indications that he's actually thinking carefully about the game than he has been in the thread. First off, the first paragraph about risen getting lord is immediately wrong. during n2, Only rayn and risen were alive when they had to vote for lord, yet snb doesn't know this? He's mentioning 3 vote for one and one the other. He thought all 4 members of that house were alive? This indicates snb is clearly not paying attention to this game. The first three paragraphs are all on his opening list post that EVERYONE AND THEIR MOTHER agreed was terrible. Why are you analyzing it snb? To make your case four times as big as it needed to be, perhaps? Big cases carry more weight, right? Then there's the last bit: Show nested quote +The rest of his posting shows much less effort put into analyzing the game. An example is how Clarity is still his preferred lynch target in his final posts before N1, despite a lot more information being put into the thread and a lot more public discussion among the principals of that situation. He hasn't made any real cases since his first post, and he hasn't actually followed up on his DI, xatalos, or grackaroni reads. From the clear and huge difference in effort between his first post and the rest of his filter, it's clear that his first post was very much constructed and careful, which imo is a scum thing to do; additionally, the fact that he was careful and put effort into just writing that post makes it even more suspect that his reads in it were so obviously bad in such a specifically scummy way. Notice how snb's case on risen is comprised entirely of Risen's day 1 and nothing else. Yes, at the end of day 1 he still wanted to lynch me. But guess what? He eventually did change his mind on me and grack. I doubt snb was even aware of it, but if he was then clearly he didn't care to mention it, because it would make his case less compelling. AND 4) snb only shows up in thread when he's under pressure. When he's not under pressure he's nowhere to be found. ##Vote strongandbig
when have i not been under pressure since i came back. how can i show up when i'm not under pressure.
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why would i want to be lord d2 when i knew i wouldn't be active on sunday.
how am i supposed to prove that i'm townie when idiots keep calling for me to be shot and i have to spend all my time defending myself.
and it's straight up not true that everyone thought that list post was terrible. for example, iamperfection told me that risen was town just because of that post, because he thoguht scum risen would never put that much effort into a post. i had to explain why that post was scummy so i could counteract that argument.
and of course my case is comprised of risen's day one he posted like three one-liners on day 2!
Your case boils down to "you disagree with my case on risen and you don't like that I've had to defend myself all the time after I got back."
Well let me ask you a few things.
(1) What happened to your "strong town read" on me after day 1? Do you think I would have been that active as scum in PMs and then suddenly decided I didn't care anymore?
(2) I was practically yamato's ONLY REAL PUSH. Do you think if we were on a scum team together he would have been pushing me, for the EXACT SAME REASONS you are pushing me for now - inactivity and "not caring", when he would have known I would be away and not defend myself for several days? Seriously?
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On August 15 2013 04:31 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 04:29 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 04:19 Clarity_nl wrote:snb asked me in a pm why I think he's scum, and asked me to answer either in pm or thread, he doesn't seem happy with the "he's not doing anything" reason. So here it is, why snb is scum: 1) Low activity. It CAN be town, but it's more likely to be disinterested scum. 2) After being lord d1 snb suddenly does not want to be lord d2. He tells both me and oats the exact same phrase in pms "I want to run for lord n3 again, I want to re-earn my obv-towniness from n0" 3) Broken promises. This ties into point 2. He has not re-earned his "obv-towniness" at all. d2 he didn't do much, that's simply how it is. He had no presence in the thread at all, nor im pms. How about d3 you ask? He's pushed risen real hard you say? Let's look at his main post on risen shall we. + Show Spoiler +On August 13 2013 01:45 strongandbig wrote:So here's what I want to talk about - why has Risen been getting a pass today? I don't even care about him being lord. It sounds completely reasonable that he would be chosen since his house was worried Rayne would die (although it seems like a better plan would have been for three to vote Rayne and Risen to vote himself, that way if Ryan dies Risen would be the next lord automatically). Anyway, we should be pressuring Risen for what's in his filter. (1) The big entry post - I talked some about this before, but it's total bullshit. He attacked Oats, Yamato, and DI for playing anti-town, shitting up the thread, fighting over nothing, etc. The problem is, this is exactly what they do EVERY GAME. Oats argues over stupid things, Yamato is touchy as fuck, and DI is the most anti-town town player possible. They are the very definition of easy targets for scum to attack exactly like Risen did - but Risen should have known better than to call them scum and push for their lynch off of it. (aside: Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 03:27 Risen wrote:Oats is scum, Yamato is null The funny thing is that prior to looking into the filters I thought Yamato would come across as more scummy than Oats, and gave kush a pass while reading through because of that. Connection theory! Reads like scum not wanting to either attack their buddy or directly defending them. Although Yamato is super touchy, it is more out of character for him to take a fight so far in the fucking-the-thread direction than it is for Oats to do so, and Risen doesn't actually give any reasons why he thinks Yamato is a better scum target than Oats, he just asserts that his filter looks better.) In that post, he also calls Xatalos scum based on what boils down in part to a connection theory with his bullshit read on DI. Connection theories with unflipped (or un-scumclaimed) players? Okay, can be done by town, but shouldn't, another easy way for scum to generate reads. Another thing - just look at that post in general. It's huge, so he must be town right? (just ask austinmcc!) Nope, wrong! A large part of the post is stream-of-consciousness, much easier to write than an actual structured case. Also it's a list-post, shorter reads on large numbers of people, easy for scum to do and looks big. Most of the reads in the post are "easy reads" for scum to make, attacking people for playing in an anti-town fashion rather than for actually being scum and attacking other people for invented reasons. A lot of sound and fury, signifying nothing. The rest of his posting shows much less effort put into analyzing the game. An example is how Clarity is still his preferred lynch target in his final posts before N1, despite a lot more information being put into the thread and a lot more public discussion among the principals of that situation. He hasn't made any real cases since his first post, and he hasn't actually followed up on his DI, xatalos, or grackaroni reads. From the clear and huge difference in effort between his first post and the rest of his filter, it's clear that his first post was very much constructed and careful, which imo is a scum thing to do; additionally, the fact that he was careful and put effort into just writing that post makes it even more suspect that his reads in it were so obviously bad in such a specifically scummy way. So yeah, what I want to hear next is from people who've been in PMs with Risen, whether he's given more to them in terms of reads, cases, and indications that he's actually thinking carefully about the game than he has been in the thread. First off, the first paragraph about risen getting lord is immediately wrong. during n2, Only rayn and risen were alive when they had to vote for lord, yet snb doesn't know this? He's mentioning 3 vote for one and one the other. He thought all 4 members of that house were alive? This indicates snb is clearly not paying attention to this game. The first three paragraphs are all on his opening list post that EVERYONE AND THEIR MOTHER agreed was terrible. Why are you analyzing it snb? To make your case four times as big as it needed to be, perhaps? Big cases carry more weight, right? Then there's the last bit: The rest of his posting shows much less effort put into analyzing the game. An example is how Clarity is still his preferred lynch target in his final posts before N1, despite a lot more information being put into the thread and a lot more public discussion among the principals of that situation. He hasn't made any real cases since his first post, and he hasn't actually followed up on his DI, xatalos, or grackaroni reads. From the clear and huge difference in effort between his first post and the rest of his filter, it's clear that his first post was very much constructed and careful, which imo is a scum thing to do; additionally, the fact that he was careful and put effort into just writing that post makes it even more suspect that his reads in it were so obviously bad in such a specifically scummy way. Notice how snb's case on risen is comprised entirely of Risen's day 1 and nothing else. Yes, at the end of day 1 he still wanted to lynch me. But guess what? He eventually did change his mind on me and grack. I doubt snb was even aware of it, but if he was then clearly he didn't care to mention it, because it would make his case less compelling. AND 4) snb only shows up in thread when he's under pressure. When he's not under pressure he's nowhere to be found. ##Vote strongandbig when have i not been under pressure since i came back. how can i show up when i'm not under pressure. I dunno.... How about.... THE ENTIRETY OF DAY 2
I was only here on Monday of day 2, I was still gone on Sunday - andy I posted like a full page of filter on day 2! That's when I posted my risen case! How was I not active then?
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On August 15 2013 04:32 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 04:29 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 04:19 Clarity_nl wrote:snb asked me in a pm why I think he's scum, and asked me to answer either in pm or thread, he doesn't seem happy with the "he's not doing anything" reason. So here it is, why snb is scum: 1) Low activity. It CAN be town, but it's more likely to be disinterested scum. 2) After being lord d1 snb suddenly does not want to be lord d2. He tells both me and oats the exact same phrase in pms "I want to run for lord n3 again, I want to re-earn my obv-towniness from n0" 3) Broken promises. This ties into point 2. He has not re-earned his "obv-towniness" at all. d2 he didn't do much, that's simply how it is. He had no presence in the thread at all, nor im pms. How about d3 you ask? He's pushed risen real hard you say? Let's look at his main post on risen shall we. + Show Spoiler +On August 13 2013 01:45 strongandbig wrote:So here's what I want to talk about - why has Risen been getting a pass today? I don't even care about him being lord. It sounds completely reasonable that he would be chosen since his house was worried Rayne would die (although it seems like a better plan would have been for three to vote Rayne and Risen to vote himself, that way if Ryan dies Risen would be the next lord automatically). Anyway, we should be pressuring Risen for what's in his filter. (1) The big entry post - I talked some about this before, but it's total bullshit. He attacked Oats, Yamato, and DI for playing anti-town, shitting up the thread, fighting over nothing, etc. The problem is, this is exactly what they do EVERY GAME. Oats argues over stupid things, Yamato is touchy as fuck, and DI is the most anti-town town player possible. They are the very definition of easy targets for scum to attack exactly like Risen did - but Risen should have known better than to call them scum and push for their lynch off of it. (aside: Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 03:27 Risen wrote:Oats is scum, Yamato is null The funny thing is that prior to looking into the filters I thought Yamato would come across as more scummy than Oats, and gave kush a pass while reading through because of that. Connection theory! Reads like scum not wanting to either attack their buddy or directly defending them. Although Yamato is super touchy, it is more out of character for him to take a fight so far in the fucking-the-thread direction than it is for Oats to do so, and Risen doesn't actually give any reasons why he thinks Yamato is a better scum target than Oats, he just asserts that his filter looks better.) In that post, he also calls Xatalos scum based on what boils down in part to a connection theory with his bullshit read on DI. Connection theories with unflipped (or un-scumclaimed) players? Okay, can be done by town, but shouldn't, another easy way for scum to generate reads. Another thing - just look at that post in general. It's huge, so he must be town right? (just ask austinmcc!) Nope, wrong! A large part of the post is stream-of-consciousness, much easier to write than an actual structured case. Also it's a list-post, shorter reads on large numbers of people, easy for scum to do and looks big. Most of the reads in the post are "easy reads" for scum to make, attacking people for playing in an anti-town fashion rather than for actually being scum and attacking other people for invented reasons. A lot of sound and fury, signifying nothing. The rest of his posting shows much less effort put into analyzing the game. An example is how Clarity is still his preferred lynch target in his final posts before N1, despite a lot more information being put into the thread and a lot more public discussion among the principals of that situation. He hasn't made any real cases since his first post, and he hasn't actually followed up on his DI, xatalos, or grackaroni reads. From the clear and huge difference in effort between his first post and the rest of his filter, it's clear that his first post was very much constructed and careful, which imo is a scum thing to do; additionally, the fact that he was careful and put effort into just writing that post makes it even more suspect that his reads in it were so obviously bad in such a specifically scummy way. So yeah, what I want to hear next is from people who've been in PMs with Risen, whether he's given more to them in terms of reads, cases, and indications that he's actually thinking carefully about the game than he has been in the thread. First off, the first paragraph about risen getting lord is immediately wrong. during n2, Only rayn and risen were alive when they had to vote for lord, yet snb doesn't know this? He's mentioning 3 vote for one and one the other. He thought all 4 members of that house were alive? This indicates snb is clearly not paying attention to this game. The first three paragraphs are all on his opening list post that EVERYONE AND THEIR MOTHER agreed was terrible. Why are you analyzing it snb? To make your case four times as big as it needed to be, perhaps? Big cases carry more weight, right? Then there's the last bit: The rest of his posting shows much less effort put into analyzing the game. An example is how Clarity is still his preferred lynch target in his final posts before N1, despite a lot more information being put into the thread and a lot more public discussion among the principals of that situation. He hasn't made any real cases since his first post, and he hasn't actually followed up on his DI, xatalos, or grackaroni reads. From the clear and huge difference in effort between his first post and the rest of his filter, it's clear that his first post was very much constructed and careful, which imo is a scum thing to do; additionally, the fact that he was careful and put effort into just writing that post makes it even more suspect that his reads in it were so obviously bad in such a specifically scummy way. Notice how snb's case on risen is comprised entirely of Risen's day 1 and nothing else. Yes, at the end of day 1 he still wanted to lynch me. But guess what? He eventually did change his mind on me and grack. I doubt snb was even aware of it, but if he was then clearly he didn't care to mention it, because it would make his case less compelling. AND 4) snb only shows up in thread when he's under pressure. When he's not under pressure he's nowhere to be found. ##Vote strongandbig when have i not been under pressure since i came back. how can i show up when i'm not under pressure. This is the prime example of showing up when under pressure.
i'm trying to not get lynched here. if i hit f5 on the thread and i see clarity's finally posted his case on me which i asked him for like an hour ago, of course i'm going to post about it.
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Clarity, I also like how you're telling me I had no presence in pms on d2 when the reason for that was that YOU told me you wanted to keep things more in the thread!
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On August 15 2013 04:41 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 04:35 strongandbig wrote:
why would i want to be lord d2 when i knew i wouldn't be active on sunday.
how am i supposed to prove that i'm townie when idiots keep calling for me to be shot and i have to spend all my time defending myself.
and it's straight up not true that everyone thought that list post was terrible. for example, iamperfection told me that risen was town just because of that post, because he thoguht scum risen would never put that much effort into a post. i had to explain why that post was scummy so i could counteract that argument.
and of course my case is comprised of risen's day one he posted like three one-liners on day 2!
Your case boils down to "you disagree with my case on risen and you don't like that I've had to defend myself all the time after I got back."
Well let me ask you a few things.
(1) What happened to your "strong town read" on me after day 1? Do you think I would have been that active as scum in PMs and then suddenly decided I didn't care anymore?
(2) I was practically yamato's ONLY REAL PUSH. Do you think if we were on a scum team together he would have been pushing me, for the EXACT SAME REASONS you are pushing me for now - inactivity and "not caring", when he would have known I would be away and not defend myself for several days? Seriously? 1) it.. like... went away or something, I dunno. 2) He was pushing you d1. You were around d1, nor were you under any threat of being lynched. He didn't push you d2 he was too busy posting baby seals and shit. So you're misrepresenting stuff now.
he was pushing me after i went camping. I was camping friday through sunday aka the second day of D1 (when he started pushing me and if we were scum he would have known I wouldn't be able to respond), the night phase, and the first day of D2
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On August 15 2013 04:47 Clarity_nl wrote:
I'll be back in a couple of hours, and I'll go to bed shortly after I'm back.
Am curious to hear grack's points.
On August 15 2013 04:42 strongandbig wrote:
Clarity, I also like how you're telling me I had no presence in pms on d2 when the reason for that was that YOU told me you wanted to keep things more in the thread!
On August 15 2013 04:43 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 04:41 Clarity_nl wrote:On August 15 2013 04:35 strongandbig wrote:
why would i want to be lord d2 when i knew i wouldn't be active on sunday.
how am i supposed to prove that i'm townie when idiots keep calling for me to be shot and i have to spend all my time defending myself.
and it's straight up not true that everyone thought that list post was terrible. for example, iamperfection told me that risen was town just because of that post, because he thoguht scum risen would never put that much effort into a post. i had to explain why that post was scummy so i could counteract that argument.
and of course my case is comprised of risen's day one he posted like three one-liners on day 2!
Your case boils down to "you disagree with my case on risen and you don't like that I've had to defend myself all the time after I got back."
Well let me ask you a few things.
(1) What happened to your "strong town read" on me after day 1? Do you think I would have been that active as scum in PMs and then suddenly decided I didn't care anymore?
(2) I was practically yamato's ONLY REAL PUSH. Do you think if we were on a scum team together he would have been pushing me, for the EXACT SAME REASONS you are pushing me for now - inactivity and "not caring", when he would have known I would be away and not defend myself for several days? Seriously? 1) it.. like... went away or something, I dunno. 2) He was pushing you d1. You were around d1, nor were you under any threat of being lynched. He didn't push you d2 he was too busy posting baby seals and shit. So you're misrepresenting stuff now. he was pushing me after i went camping. I was camping friday through sunday aka the second day of D1 (when he started pushing me and if we were scum he would have known I wouldn't be able to respond), the night phase, and the first day of D2
yeah i read your shitty case
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On August 15 2013 04:47 Grackaroni wrote:What stood out to me first is his interactions with Yamato. Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 06:04 strongandbig wrote:On August 10 2013 05:58 yamato77 wrote:On August 10 2013 05:55 Acrofales wrote:On August 10 2013 05:51 yamato77 wrote:
Most of SNB's contribution to the game consists of making a big deal out of some rolename controversy within his own house on N0. Aside from complaining that Clarity unwittingly ruined some sort of plan (lolwhatever), there's almost nothing of substance in his filter aside from a townread on Dandel (like that means anything).
His activity also fits in with his scum meta-activity as evidenced by the same sort of lurky and somewhat disinterested play he exhibited in Sicilian. He's set himself up so that he is voting for who his house wants to vote for, conveniently absolving himself of any true scumhunting in-thread. In a previous encounter, a jousting match at Castle PTP, he was largely unavailable and never contributed anything of value, yet was town. Not to say that I encourage that behaviour, but I'm not sure it's sufficient for murdering him. So how do you advise we treat the SnB situation, then, Acro? Let him lurk into LYLO? It's not like he's an incompetent town player. If he's town, he's good enough to show it. idiot i'm busier today than i was yesterday. that doesn't mean im lurking. i just coutned, i have sent 123 PMs this game. so fuck you saying i'm scum for inactivity. also you should know better than this. my activity is just as bad when i'm town as it is when i'm scum. if not worse. you are making up things to suit your agenda and i woudl be down to lynch or vig you. Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 06:08 strongandbig wrote:On August 10 2013 06:07 yamato77 wrote:On August 10 2013 06:04 strongandbig wrote:On August 10 2013 05:58 yamato77 wrote:On August 10 2013 05:55 Acrofales wrote:On August 10 2013 05:51 yamato77 wrote:
Most of SNB's contribution to the game consists of making a big deal out of some rolename controversy within his own house on N0. Aside from complaining that Clarity unwittingly ruined some sort of plan (lolwhatever), there's almost nothing of substance in his filter aside from a townread on Dandel (like that means anything).
His activity also fits in with his scum meta-activity as evidenced by the same sort of lurky and somewhat disinterested play he exhibited in Sicilian. He's set himself up so that he is voting for who his house wants to vote for, conveniently absolving himself of any true scumhunting in-thread. In a previous encounter, a jousting match at Castle PTP, he was largely unavailable and never contributed anything of value, yet was town. Not to say that I encourage that behaviour, but I'm not sure it's sufficient for murdering him. So how do you advise we treat the SnB situation, then, Acro? Let him lurk into LYLO? It's not like he's an incompetent town player. If he's town, he's good enough to show it. idiot i'm busier today than i was yesterday. that doesn't mean im lurking. i just coutned, i have sent 123 PMs this game. so fuck you saying i'm scum for inactivity. also you should know better than this. my activity is just as bad when i'm town as it is when i'm scum. if not worse. you are making up things to suit your agenda and i woudl be down to lynch or vig you. So "I do this as town, too!' is your only defense? Last time I heard that, a SCUM PLAYER was getting lynched D1 in Catch 22. no you fucker my defense is that i have been way, way more active than many people in this game, including you. He gives out these strong accusations of Yamato trying to make things up to suit his agenda, and see that Yamato has done nothing this game but fight with Oats over dumb stuff at the start of the game and not scum hun, Then he plants his vote on Onegu with weak reasoning. Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 06:13 strongandbig wrote:
Right now I think I want to lynch onegu the most. I thought the pressure on him at the start was for a bad reason, but he didn't really do anything at all in the way of scumhunting when the pressure was taken off of him.
So ##vote: onegu At this point of the game he should have a better case for Yamato being scum, (not scumhunting, shitting up the thread, having an agenda) and chooses to ignore it and not pressure Yamato further. Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 01:57 strongandbig wrote:On August 13 2013 01:41 Acrofales wrote:On August 13 2013 01:26 strongandbig wrote:
okay i'm back after reading the previous ~45 pages of thread.
i've been camping with my girlfriend for the weekend. the limited activity was because (1) bad cell reception and more importantly (2) lack of interest in mafia when camping with my girlfriend.
I see that people are calling me scum because my activity dropped off, all i'll say to them for now is that if you think occasional inactivity is something I only show in scum games then you're either scum or lazy as fuck.
I want to talk specifically to what vivax said about my pms during night 1. It's true that I was very malleable as regards where to send the KP. The plan from iamperfection and rayn was made while I was gone, and I hadn't read the thread at that point. I sent in the KP after reading gumshoe's filter and deciding that he was a good enough choice for a lurker shot, and I sent it as soon as I finished reading the thread because I was something like half an hour late for my assigned time slot, and didn't want to fuck up their plan for sending in the KP sequentially.
But anyway, it seems the reason most people have been calling me scum isn't for anything I did, but for stopping paying attention to the game over the weekend. So the best way to shut that down is to start caring/paying attention, no? Yet another paragon of useful contribution. After reading 45 pages you must have something to say about the CONTENT of those pages, no? The Redwyne fleet is ready to sail north and stab you in the face. typing bro i see no reason to talk abotu the yamato situation since he claimed scum and we're killing him. cool that sharrant chose a good target. i thought some about shooting yamato but since i didnt do it and didn't actually push him it doesn't matter. if you're trying to decide whether i'm scum, make sure you think a little bit about his push on me, also, and explain how we could be teammates before you shoot me. i mean obviously its possible that he was trying to bus me, but i would argue scum would be unlikely to bus their teammate who won a lordship and then was not going to be active enough to defend himself until after a full round of vig shots. i see no real reason to talk about the oberyn fakeclaim situation either. actually, here's something - i would say that the scum roleblocker may not have claimed because he knew oberyn and onegu were lying (either onegu or oberyn being scum in that case) but it's also possible that they were inactive. it seems unlikely that they would have called their bluff completely, given that jk is such a good fakeclaim for that scenario and that it was mentioned in the thread, but that can't be ruled out either. so i don't think we can be like "omg someone leaked the plan lynch into oberyn and onegu". That said, it does make them deserving of some extra scrutiny as compared to any random person in the game, i guess. so yeah there you go, a paragraph where i don't really say anything, happy? I thought this post was scummy, he comes in with this long post and says nothing besides, I didn't actually push Yamato but we were fighting with each other so we can't be scum together. Then adds in this last paragraph where he knows he's not adding anything and justifies it by adding in the last sentence. Aside from that yes, the activity hasn't been the best and he only pushes Risen for not having logical reads which doesn't seem to be alignment indicative for Risen.
I didn't really think yamato was scum at that point, I just thought he was being an asshole and I was getting pissed. Also I was already out of town at that point.
My reasoning for voting onegu was that he was the lynch candidate who I agreed with the cases against the most. I talked about those cases a bit but it's true that my reasoning was not explained in detail. I was out of town camping with my girlfriend and put in as much time as I felt like on my vote.
And you seriously are calling me scum for the fact that my post explaining why I wasn't talking doesn't say anything??? That's the whole point of that post! I had just been accused by acro for not contributing, during the time while I was typing my Risen case. I decided to be a bit snarky and explain in detail why I decided not to talk about some of the things that acro apparently thought I should have talked about.
AGAIN, ANYONE WHO WANTS TO KILL ME SHOULD READ YAMATO'S FILTER AND EXPLAIN WHY HE WAS PUSHING ME, HIS TEAMMATE, FOR INACTIVITY AND "NOT CARING" WHILE SUPPOSEDLY KNOWING THAT I WOULD BE GONE FOR SEVERAL DAYS AND UNABLE TO RESPOND.
Seriously, I can't believe you are making a yamato connection case to argue i'm scum.
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On August 15 2013 04:59 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 04:54 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 04:47 Grackaroni wrote:What stood out to me first is his interactions with Yamato. On August 10 2013 06:04 strongandbig wrote:On August 10 2013 05:58 yamato77 wrote:On August 10 2013 05:55 Acrofales wrote:On August 10 2013 05:51 yamato77 wrote:
Most of SNB's contribution to the game consists of making a big deal out of some rolename controversy within his own house on N0. Aside from complaining that Clarity unwittingly ruined some sort of plan (lolwhatever), there's almost nothing of substance in his filter aside from a townread on Dandel (like that means anything).
His activity also fits in with his scum meta-activity as evidenced by the same sort of lurky and somewhat disinterested play he exhibited in Sicilian. He's set himself up so that he is voting for who his house wants to vote for, conveniently absolving himself of any true scumhunting in-thread. In a previous encounter, a jousting match at Castle PTP, he was largely unavailable and never contributed anything of value, yet was town. Not to say that I encourage that behaviour, but I'm not sure it's sufficient for murdering him. So how do you advise we treat the SnB situation, then, Acro? Let him lurk into LYLO? It's not like he's an incompetent town player. If he's town, he's good enough to show it. idiot i'm busier today than i was yesterday. that doesn't mean im lurking. i just coutned, i have sent 123 PMs this game. so fuck you saying i'm scum for inactivity. also you should know better than this. my activity is just as bad when i'm town as it is when i'm scum. if not worse. you are making up things to suit your agenda and i woudl be down to lynch or vig you. On August 10 2013 06:08 strongandbig wrote:On August 10 2013 06:07 yamato77 wrote:On August 10 2013 06:04 strongandbig wrote:On August 10 2013 05:58 yamato77 wrote:On August 10 2013 05:55 Acrofales wrote:On August 10 2013 05:51 yamato77 wrote:
Most of SNB's contribution to the game consists of making a big deal out of some rolename controversy within his own house on N0. Aside from complaining that Clarity unwittingly ruined some sort of plan (lolwhatever), there's almost nothing of substance in his filter aside from a townread on Dandel (like that means anything).
His activity also fits in with his scum meta-activity as evidenced by the same sort of lurky and somewhat disinterested play he exhibited in Sicilian. He's set himself up so that he is voting for who his house wants to vote for, conveniently absolving himself of any true scumhunting in-thread. In a previous encounter, a jousting match at Castle PTP, he was largely unavailable and never contributed anything of value, yet was town. Not to say that I encourage that behaviour, but I'm not sure it's sufficient for murdering him. So how do you advise we treat the SnB situation, then, Acro? Let him lurk into LYLO? It's not like he's an incompetent town player. If he's town, he's good enough to show it. idiot i'm busier today than i was yesterday. that doesn't mean im lurking. i just coutned, i have sent 123 PMs this game. so fuck you saying i'm scum for inactivity. also you should know better than this. my activity is just as bad when i'm town as it is when i'm scum. if not worse. you are making up things to suit your agenda and i woudl be down to lynch or vig you. So "I do this as town, too!' is your only defense? Last time I heard that, a SCUM PLAYER was getting lynched D1 in Catch 22. no you fucker my defense is that i have been way, way more active than many people in this game, including you. He gives out these strong accusations of Yamato trying to make things up to suit his agenda, and see that Yamato has done nothing this game but fight with Oats over dumb stuff at the start of the game and not scum hun, Then he plants his vote on Onegu with weak reasoning. On August 10 2013 06:13 strongandbig wrote:
Right now I think I want to lynch onegu the most. I thought the pressure on him at the start was for a bad reason, but he didn't really do anything at all in the way of scumhunting when the pressure was taken off of him.
So ##vote: onegu At this point of the game he should have a better case for Yamato being scum, (not scumhunting, shitting up the thread, having an agenda) and chooses to ignore it and not pressure Yamato further. On August 13 2013 01:57 strongandbig wrote:On August 13 2013 01:41 Acrofales wrote:On August 13 2013 01:26 strongandbig wrote:
okay i'm back after reading the previous ~45 pages of thread.
i've been camping with my girlfriend for the weekend. the limited activity was because (1) bad cell reception and more importantly (2) lack of interest in mafia when camping with my girlfriend.
I see that people are calling me scum because my activity dropped off, all i'll say to them for now is that if you think occasional inactivity is something I only show in scum games then you're either scum or lazy as fuck.
I want to talk specifically to what vivax said about my pms during night 1. It's true that I was very malleable as regards where to send the KP. The plan from iamperfection and rayn was made while I was gone, and I hadn't read the thread at that point. I sent in the KP after reading gumshoe's filter and deciding that he was a good enough choice for a lurker shot, and I sent it as soon as I finished reading the thread because I was something like half an hour late for my assigned time slot, and didn't want to fuck up their plan for sending in the KP sequentially.
But anyway, it seems the reason most people have been calling me scum isn't for anything I did, but for stopping paying attention to the game over the weekend. So the best way to shut that down is to start caring/paying attention, no? Yet another paragon of useful contribution. After reading 45 pages you must have something to say about the CONTENT of those pages, no? The Redwyne fleet is ready to sail north and stab you in the face. typing bro i see no reason to talk abotu the yamato situation since he claimed scum and we're killing him. cool that sharrant chose a good target. i thought some about shooting yamato but since i didnt do it and didn't actually push him it doesn't matter. if you're trying to decide whether i'm scum, make sure you think a little bit about his push on me, also, and explain how we could be teammates before you shoot me. i mean obviously its possible that he was trying to bus me, but i would argue scum would be unlikely to bus their teammate who won a lordship and then was not going to be active enough to defend himself until after a full round of vig shots. i see no real reason to talk about the oberyn fakeclaim situation either. actually, here's something - i would say that the scum roleblocker may not have claimed because he knew oberyn and onegu were lying (either onegu or oberyn being scum in that case) but it's also possible that they were inactive. it seems unlikely that they would have called their bluff completely, given that jk is such a good fakeclaim for that scenario and that it was mentioned in the thread, but that can't be ruled out either. so i don't think we can be like "omg someone leaked the plan lynch into oberyn and onegu". That said, it does make them deserving of some extra scrutiny as compared to any random person in the game, i guess. so yeah there you go, a paragraph where i don't really say anything, happy? I thought this post was scummy, he comes in with this long post and says nothing besides, I didn't actually push Yamato but we were fighting with each other so we can't be scum together. Then adds in this last paragraph where he knows he's not adding anything and justifies it by adding in the last sentence. Aside from that yes, the activity hasn't been the best and he only pushes Risen for not having logical reads which doesn't seem to be alignment indicative for Risen. I didn't really think yamato was scum at that point, I just thought he was being an asshole and I was getting pissed. Also I was already out of town at that point. My reasoning for voting onegu was that he was the lynch candidate who I agreed with the cases against the most. I talked about those cases a bit but it's true that my reasoning was not explained in detail. I was out of town camping with my girlfriend and put in as much time as I felt like on my vote. And you seriously are calling me scum for the fact that my post explaining why I wasn't talking doesn't say anything??? That's the whole point of that post! I had just been accused by acro for not contributing, during the time while I was typing my Risen case. I decided to be a bit snarky and explain in detail why I decided not to talk about some of the things that acro apparently thought I should have talked about. AGAIN, ANYONE WHO WANTS TO KILL ME SHOULD READ YAMATO'S FILTER AND EXPLAIN WHY HE WAS PUSHING ME, HIS TEAMMATE, FOR INACTIVITY AND "NOT CARING" WHILE SUPPOSEDLY KNOWING THAT I WOULD BE GONE FOR SEVERAL DAYS AND UNABLE TO RESPOND.Seriously, I can't believe you are making a yamato connection case to argue i'm scum. Not the first post explaining why you weren't talking. The post after that you made responding to Acro, when he asked you to contribute any of your thoughts.
yeah the one you quoted is the one i'm talking about
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On August 15 2013 05:04 Koshi wrote:
SnB. Same question that I asked you a million times in Sicilian.
Who else than you? You always just defend yourself and don't do anything else. In Sicilian you were blaming Vivax his tunnel on you. This time you are going to use the fact that you and Yamato can't be on the same scumteam... You flipped scum in Sicilian and all my townreads are on your ass atm. If I would have a vote I would vote you in an instant.
a townie's first duty is to not get lynched. defending yourself if you're going to get lynched is the most important thing.
i want to kill risen as i have made abundantly clear. i'm not satisfied at all with either of their answers. I think risen's day 1 shows his scum mindset and he hasn't gotten much better since then, he's spent the whole rest of the game tunneling sharrant and now he's voting me because i thought he had one good point in his case on sharrant but i still think he's scum.
i also still think vivax is probably scum but risen is still number one on my kill list atm.
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On August 15 2013 05:09 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 05:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 15 2013 04:54 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 04:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 15 2013 04:45 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 03:42 Vivax wrote:Look, Xatalos. My question regarding your (suddenly not any more?) scumread, of which you fail to understand why he would attack you like that (although he's your scumread you don't see scummy intentions?). Can you answer this or will you post some more insults, lols and rofls, great lord of house shitvotes? On August 15 2013 00:55 Vivax wrote:I don't see what you mean with contradictory statements from Risen. You posted that he was wrong about you and Dandel, afterwards you posted this: On August 09 2013 21:21 Xatalos wrote:
I agree that Risen is quite likely town (unfortunately, one might also say).
So I wonder now, why do you mention something that is supposed to make him scum when in the past it wasn't reason enough and you gave him a townread in spite of what you call a contradiction now. I think it's pretty null to make such a stupid mistake. How would scum benefit from doing that on purpose? It looked more like he was overjoyed about finding a scumslip and went with it, not like he tried to justify a scumread on me or anything like that. It was so sudden and weird. Could still be scum motivated, just seemed more like null or even townish to do that. I think you're just not reading the thread. My suspicions for Risen had already started before I noticed his inconsistent thought process. Then he posted that he had only suspected DI because of his connection to me. That's just 100% false. 1) It was the other way around, a big part of his case of his case on me was based on my connection to DI. 2) Even if it wasn't the other way around, it wasn't possibly ONLY because of DI's connection to me. There were many other reasons but nothing about a connection. It made me think his original case was all made up, since he couldn't even grasp the logic of his own case HIMSELF. What town would decide their reads, then justify them with bad logic, then not even understand the logic behind their reads? That's right, only scum would do that. (After witnessing Risen's total failure in thinking on several occasions, I've had to admit that maybe he's just incapable of logic altogether.) On August 15 2013 02:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 15 2013 02:31 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 02:03 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 15 2013 01:58 Vivax wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On August 15 2013 01:53 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 01:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:
You have been bringing up these "fruitless details" for a long time. can you now explain what do you mean by them so i could... you know... answer you? Well, it seems like I've underestimated your focus on relevant stuff. Although there are some things that don't feel good. For example this from iamperfection after D2 about you: "Asked some pointless questions to me wasting time and therefore posting without a point" Not sure if that means PMs or in thread. I can't seem to find this in thread now. Either way, not good. Then there was that huge spam about the role name thing D1. Pretty ridiculous and buried potentially useful posts. Also quite a lot of spam during D2 like "What's up, X?" or "What did you mean with this?". But as I said, I take back that you focused THAT much on useless stuff. More like there's a decent amount of useless, but more relevant posts than I thought. Did you even read Rayn's last town game? I thought he was mafia in obs qt, he's just like that. Him and his love for single malt, I suspect. He's lurky as fuck when he's scum, there's no fucking way he's scum in this game with his current activity. You're waaay more useless, you still didn't answer my question and prefer to post LOL and ROFL. Shouldn't you be some more interested into talking with your scumread? This is plain wrong btw. Indeed. Buddying up? Or what? rayn is never lurky. At least looking at NWM, Titanic and Catch 22, he was always spammy and active as scum or town. What I'm trying to distinguish is townish activity and scummy activity. He's going to be active regardless. On August 15 2013 01:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 15 2013 01:55 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 01:49 raynpelikoneet wrote:
And why the fuck does Xatalos dodge my questions about Mocsta and me/Acro stuff every time i ask him. What do you mean? What haven't I answered? Give me a full answer on Mocsta case, and give me an answer why did you call me out with your scumread Acro for bullshit reasoning "you have focused on all the wrong things all the game". I've explained why I went along with Acro in detail already. It had to do with my increasing townread on Acro, my bad gut feeling regarding you, your useless spam posts and me believing that one of you (rayn, Acro) was probably scum (I'm not as sure about that one anymore). Go read my filter please, it should be clear at this point. Onwards to the Mocsta case. - I agree that jrkirby was scummy - You twist some of what Mocsta said... He didn't say "Sharrant isn't playing his town meta and thus is town", he said several points and counter-points and concluded town... Dunno about the lynchbait thing - At least iamperfection has said that he has a townread on you in PMs, your terrible early game might refer to your spam about the rolename thing, "forced aggression" might also mean the useless spam, lastly hard to talk about a game I haven't played in (and meta shouldn't be overused) Overall I'd say Mocsta is slightly scummy (counting jrkirby's scumminess), and a pretty reasonable lynch, but he has been very active today and I'd like to give him a bit more time (like I said earlier). - Your posts before Acro's case imply that he is your scumread. Tell me when did you drop your suspicion on him. - Explain this: "He didn't say "Sharrant isn't playing his town meta and thus is town", he said several points and counter-points and concluded town... " because that's exactly what Mocsta said. If not, why did you not say this in the first place? - About the rolename thing (is this all you are going to bring up - i thought you had more things as you implied so). I talked about it with Solstice, i do not agree with him, and i think it's not alignment indicative. I am not calling johnny scum because of it, I AM SAYING HE IS NOT TOWN BECAUSE OF IT!!!! wtf? - You didn't explain the "forced aggression", where is it? Gimme quotes? You are calling me scum for things you don't even know what they mean. Do you see how retarded that is? I still suspected Acro somewhat when I was arguing with him, and I still do have some very slight suspicion. But iamperfection's strong belief in Acro being town and the townish feeling of the argument between us made me stop pursuing him as potential scum. If he's still alive at LYLO, there would be reason to revisit him. I think you misread his post. He had several points for Sharrant being town or for being scum. He said something like "Sharrant isn't playing his town meta, but he's been AFK so that might explain it. Overall leaning town". Just reread it with an objective mind. The rolename thing = the "forced aggression". At least I think so, you should go ask him. I can't know what he's thinking. I was just trying to say that he's not necessarily scum and he's not a good lynch for today. Maybe for later, but not at the moment. I'm not going to restart the argument about the rolenames, it already buried countless pages for no gain. And it wasn't the only thing I mentioned, I also mentioned that you had apparently wasted iamperfection's time with pointless questions and had tons of useless filler one-liner posts. where have i wasted iamps time with pointless questions? your other answers fall into the category: You are calling me scum for things you don't even know what they mean. Do you see how retarded that is? From iamperfection's last will: "Asked some pointless questions to me wasting time and therefore posting without a point would still guess he is town though." I'm not even calling you scum. Just that you're scum much more likely than in NWM and more likely than Acro. So do you know what these pointless questions are? Because i sure do not. Why are you bringing them up if you don't? To me it seems like you are trying to throw shit on someone who a now confirmed town was suspicious about. And to strengthen your D2 read, which was full of shit. Why did you say i "was focusing on wrong things"? You have never explained that. I guess he means Lord PM's. Impossible to prove that though. I won't make the mistake of "confirming" someone and let them do whatever they want. I did that with Ace and Koshi in NWM, for example, and it was ugly. If there's reason for doubt, I will point it out. Have you considered that "wrong things" might mean things such as the rolename spam, pointless one-liners and whatever iamperfection meant? I find it pretty damning that all of snb's contributions come under pressure. His play is completely reactive and passive. It's time to increase the pressure. ##Vote strongandbig
seriously? what do you want from me? should i ignore the fact that people are calling for me to be killed?
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On August 15 2013 05:11 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 05:08 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 04:59 Grackaroni wrote:On August 15 2013 04:54 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 04:47 Grackaroni wrote:What stood out to me first is his interactions with Yamato. On August 10 2013 06:04 strongandbig wrote:On August 10 2013 05:58 yamato77 wrote:On August 10 2013 05:55 Acrofales wrote:On August 10 2013 05:51 yamato77 wrote:
Most of SNB's contribution to the game consists of making a big deal out of some rolename controversy within his own house on N0. Aside from complaining that Clarity unwittingly ruined some sort of plan (lolwhatever), there's almost nothing of substance in his filter aside from a townread on Dandel (like that means anything).
His activity also fits in with his scum meta-activity as evidenced by the same sort of lurky and somewhat disinterested play he exhibited in Sicilian. He's set himself up so that he is voting for who his house wants to vote for, conveniently absolving himself of any true scumhunting in-thread. In a previous encounter, a jousting match at Castle PTP, he was largely unavailable and never contributed anything of value, yet was town. Not to say that I encourage that behaviour, but I'm not sure it's sufficient for murdering him. So how do you advise we treat the SnB situation, then, Acro? Let him lurk into LYLO? It's not like he's an incompetent town player. If he's town, he's good enough to show it. idiot i'm busier today than i was yesterday. that doesn't mean im lurking. i just coutned, i have sent 123 PMs this game. so fuck you saying i'm scum for inactivity. also you should know better than this. my activity is just as bad when i'm town as it is when i'm scum. if not worse. you are making up things to suit your agenda and i woudl be down to lynch or vig you. On August 10 2013 06:08 strongandbig wrote:On August 10 2013 06:07 yamato77 wrote:On August 10 2013 06:04 strongandbig wrote:On August 10 2013 05:58 yamato77 wrote:On August 10 2013 05:55 Acrofales wrote:
[quote]
In a previous encounter, a jousting match at Castle PTP, he was largely unavailable and never contributed anything of value, yet was town. Not to say that I encourage that behaviour, but I'm not sure it's sufficient for murdering him. So how do you advise we treat the SnB situation, then, Acro? Let him lurk into LYLO? It's not like he's an incompetent town player. If he's town, he's good enough to show it. idiot i'm busier today than i was yesterday. that doesn't mean im lurking. i just coutned, i have sent 123 PMs this game. so fuck you saying i'm scum for inactivity. also you should know better than this. my activity is just as bad when i'm town as it is when i'm scum. if not worse. you are making up things to suit your agenda and i woudl be down to lynch or vig you. So "I do this as town, too!' is your only defense? Last time I heard that, a SCUM PLAYER was getting lynched D1 in Catch 22. no you fucker my defense is that i have been way, way more active than many people in this game, including you. He gives out these strong accusations of Yamato trying to make things up to suit his agenda, and see that Yamato has done nothing this game but fight with Oats over dumb stuff at the start of the game and not scum hun, Then he plants his vote on Onegu with weak reasoning. On August 10 2013 06:13 strongandbig wrote:
Right now I think I want to lynch onegu the most. I thought the pressure on him at the start was for a bad reason, but he didn't really do anything at all in the way of scumhunting when the pressure was taken off of him.
So ##vote: onegu At this point of the game he should have a better case for Yamato being scum, (not scumhunting, shitting up the thread, having an agenda) and chooses to ignore it and not pressure Yamato further. On August 13 2013 01:57 strongandbig wrote:On August 13 2013 01:41 Acrofales wrote:On August 13 2013 01:26 strongandbig wrote:
okay i'm back after reading the previous ~45 pages of thread.
i've been camping with my girlfriend for the weekend. the limited activity was because (1) bad cell reception and more importantly (2) lack of interest in mafia when camping with my girlfriend.
I see that people are calling me scum because my activity dropped off, all i'll say to them for now is that if you think occasional inactivity is something I only show in scum games then you're either scum or lazy as fuck.
I want to talk specifically to what vivax said about my pms during night 1. It's true that I was very malleable as regards where to send the KP. The plan from iamperfection and rayn was made while I was gone, and I hadn't read the thread at that point. I sent in the KP after reading gumshoe's filter and deciding that he was a good enough choice for a lurker shot, and I sent it as soon as I finished reading the thread because I was something like half an hour late for my assigned time slot, and didn't want to fuck up their plan for sending in the KP sequentially.
But anyway, it seems the reason most people have been calling me scum isn't for anything I did, but for stopping paying attention to the game over the weekend. So the best way to shut that down is to start caring/paying attention, no? Yet another paragon of useful contribution. After reading 45 pages you must have something to say about the CONTENT of those pages, no? The Redwyne fleet is ready to sail north and stab you in the face. typing bro i see no reason to talk abotu the yamato situation since he claimed scum and we're killing him. cool that sharrant chose a good target. i thought some about shooting yamato but since i didnt do it and didn't actually push him it doesn't matter. if you're trying to decide whether i'm scum, make sure you think a little bit about his push on me, also, and explain how we could be teammates before you shoot me. i mean obviously its possible that he was trying to bus me, but i would argue scum would be unlikely to bus their teammate who won a lordship and then was not going to be active enough to defend himself until after a full round of vig shots. i see no real reason to talk about the oberyn fakeclaim situation either. actually, here's something - i would say that the scum roleblocker may not have claimed because he knew oberyn and onegu were lying (either onegu or oberyn being scum in that case) but it's also possible that they were inactive. it seems unlikely that they would have called their bluff completely, given that jk is such a good fakeclaim for that scenario and that it was mentioned in the thread, but that can't be ruled out either. so i don't think we can be like "omg someone leaked the plan lynch into oberyn and onegu". That said, it does make them deserving of some extra scrutiny as compared to any random person in the game, i guess. so yeah there you go, a paragraph where i don't really say anything, happy? I thought this post was scummy, he comes in with this long post and says nothing besides, I didn't actually push Yamato but we were fighting with each other so we can't be scum together. Then adds in this last paragraph where he knows he's not adding anything and justifies it by adding in the last sentence. Aside from that yes, the activity hasn't been the best and he only pushes Risen for not having logical reads which doesn't seem to be alignment indicative for Risen. I didn't really think yamato was scum at that point, I just thought he was being an asshole and I was getting pissed. Also I was already out of town at that point. My reasoning for voting onegu was that he was the lynch candidate who I agreed with the cases against the most. I talked about those cases a bit but it's true that my reasoning was not explained in detail. I was out of town camping with my girlfriend and put in as much time as I felt like on my vote. And you seriously are calling me scum for the fact that my post explaining why I wasn't talking doesn't say anything??? That's the whole point of that post! I had just been accused by acro for not contributing, during the time while I was typing my Risen case. I decided to be a bit snarky and explain in detail why I decided not to talk about some of the things that acro apparently thought I should have talked about. AGAIN, ANYONE WHO WANTS TO KILL ME SHOULD READ YAMATO'S FILTER AND EXPLAIN WHY HE WAS PUSHING ME, HIS TEAMMATE, FOR INACTIVITY AND "NOT CARING" WHILE SUPPOSEDLY KNOWING THAT I WOULD BE GONE FOR SEVERAL DAYS AND UNABLE TO RESPOND.Seriously, I can't believe you are making a yamato connection case to argue i'm scum. Not the first post explaining why you weren't talking. The post after that you made responding to Acro, when he asked you to contribute any of your thoughts. yeah the one you quoted is the one i'm talking about The post I quoted didn't have anything to do with you explaining why you weren't talking?
i see no reason to talk abotu the yamato situation since he claimed scum and we're killing him. cool that sharrant chose a good target. i thought some about shooting yamato but since i didnt do it and didn't actually push him it doesn't matter. if you're trying to decide whether i'm scum, make sure you think a little bit about his push on me, also, and explain how we could be teammates before you shoot me. i mean obviously its possible that he was trying to bus me, but i would argue scum would be unlikely to bus their teammate who won a lordship and then was not going to be active enough to defend himself until after a full round of vig shots.
i see no real reason to talk about the oberyn fakeclaim situation either. actually, here's something - i would say that the scum roleblocker may not have claimed because he knew oberyn and onegu were lying (either onegu or oberyn being scum in that case) but it's also possible that they were inactive. it seems unlikely that they would have called their bluff completely, given that jk is such a good fakeclaim for that scenario and that it was mentioned in the thread, but that can't be ruled out either. so i don't think we can be like "omg someone leaked the plan lynch into oberyn and onegu". That said, it does make them deserving of some extra scrutiny as compared to any random person in the game, i guess. so yeah there you go, a paragraph where i don't really say anything, happy?
I explained why i didn't think some things were worth commenting on
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On August 15 2013 05:13 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 05:12 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 05:09 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 15 2013 04:54 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 04:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 15 2013 04:45 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 03:42 Vivax wrote:Look, Xatalos. My question regarding your (suddenly not any more?) scumread, of which you fail to understand why he would attack you like that (although he's your scumread you don't see scummy intentions?). Can you answer this or will you post some more insults, lols and rofls, great lord of house shitvotes? On August 15 2013 00:55 Vivax wrote:I don't see what you mean with contradictory statements from Risen. You posted that he was wrong about you and Dandel, afterwards you posted this: On August 09 2013 21:21 Xatalos wrote:
I agree that Risen is quite likely town (unfortunately, one might also say).
So I wonder now, why do you mention something that is supposed to make him scum when in the past it wasn't reason enough and you gave him a townread in spite of what you call a contradiction now. I think it's pretty null to make such a stupid mistake. How would scum benefit from doing that on purpose? It looked more like he was overjoyed about finding a scumslip and went with it, not like he tried to justify a scumread on me or anything like that. It was so sudden and weird. Could still be scum motivated, just seemed more like null or even townish to do that. I think you're just not reading the thread. My suspicions for Risen had already started before I noticed his inconsistent thought process. Then he posted that he had only suspected DI because of his connection to me. That's just 100% false. 1) It was the other way around, a big part of his case of his case on me was based on my connection to DI. 2) Even if it wasn't the other way around, it wasn't possibly ONLY because of DI's connection to me. There were many other reasons but nothing about a connection. It made me think his original case was all made up, since he couldn't even grasp the logic of his own case HIMSELF. What town would decide their reads, then justify them with bad logic, then not even understand the logic behind their reads? That's right, only scum would do that. (After witnessing Risen's total failure in thinking on several occasions, I've had to admit that maybe he's just incapable of logic altogether.) On August 15 2013 02:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 15 2013 02:31 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 02:03 raynpelikoneet wrote:
[quote]
This is plain wrong btw. Indeed. Buddying up? Or what? rayn is never lurky. At least looking at NWM, Titanic and Catch 22, he was always spammy and active as scum or town. What I'm trying to distinguish is townish activity and scummy activity. He's going to be active regardless. On August 15 2013 01:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:
[quote]
Give me a full answer on Mocsta case, and give me an answer why did you call me out with your scumread Acro for bullshit reasoning "you have focused on all the wrong things all the game". I've explained why I went along with Acro in detail already. It had to do with my increasing townread on Acro, my bad gut feeling regarding you, your useless spam posts and me believing that one of you (rayn, Acro) was probably scum (I'm not as sure about that one anymore). Go read my filter please, it should be clear at this point. Onwards to the Mocsta case. - I agree that jrkirby was scummy - You twist some of what Mocsta said... He didn't say "Sharrant isn't playing his town meta and thus is town", he said several points and counter-points and concluded town... Dunno about the lynchbait thing - At least iamperfection has said that he has a townread on you in PMs, your terrible early game might refer to your spam about the rolename thing, "forced aggression" might also mean the useless spam, lastly hard to talk about a game I haven't played in (and meta shouldn't be overused) Overall I'd say Mocsta is slightly scummy (counting jrkirby's scumminess), and a pretty reasonable lynch, but he has been very active today and I'd like to give him a bit more time (like I said earlier). - Your posts before Acro's case imply that he is your scumread. Tell me when did you drop your suspicion on him. - Explain this: "He didn't say "Sharrant isn't playing his town meta and thus is town", he said several points and counter-points and concluded town... " because that's exactly what Mocsta said. If not, why did you not say this in the first place? - About the rolename thing (is this all you are going to bring up - i thought you had more things as you implied so). I talked about it with Solstice, i do not agree with him, and i think it's not alignment indicative. I am not calling johnny scum because of it, I AM SAYING HE IS NOT TOWN BECAUSE OF IT!!!! wtf? - You didn't explain the "forced aggression", where is it? Gimme quotes? You are calling me scum for things you don't even know what they mean. Do you see how retarded that is? I still suspected Acro somewhat when I was arguing with him, and I still do have some very slight suspicion. But iamperfection's strong belief in Acro being town and the townish feeling of the argument between us made me stop pursuing him as potential scum. If he's still alive at LYLO, there would be reason to revisit him. I think you misread his post. He had several points for Sharrant being town or for being scum. He said something like "Sharrant isn't playing his town meta, but he's been AFK so that might explain it. Overall leaning town". Just reread it with an objective mind. The rolename thing = the "forced aggression". At least I think so, you should go ask him. I can't know what he's thinking. I was just trying to say that he's not necessarily scum and he's not a good lynch for today. Maybe for later, but not at the moment. I'm not going to restart the argument about the rolenames, it already buried countless pages for no gain. And it wasn't the only thing I mentioned, I also mentioned that you had apparently wasted iamperfection's time with pointless questions and had tons of useless filler one-liner posts. where have i wasted iamps time with pointless questions? your other answers fall into the category: You are calling me scum for things you don't even know what they mean. Do you see how retarded that is? From iamperfection's last will: "Asked some pointless questions to me wasting time and therefore posting without a point would still guess he is town though." I'm not even calling you scum. Just that you're scum much more likely than in NWM and more likely than Acro. So do you know what these pointless questions are? Because i sure do not. Why are you bringing them up if you don't? To me it seems like you are trying to throw shit on someone who a now confirmed town was suspicious about. And to strengthen your D2 read, which was full of shit. Why did you say i "was focusing on wrong things"? You have never explained that. I guess he means Lord PM's. Impossible to prove that though. I won't make the mistake of "confirming" someone and let them do whatever they want. I did that with Ace and Koshi in NWM, for example, and it was ugly. If there's reason for doubt, I will point it out. Have you considered that "wrong things" might mean things such as the rolename spam, pointless one-liners and whatever iamperfection meant? I find it pretty damning that all of snb's contributions come under pressure. His play is completely reactive and passive. It's time to increase the pressure. ##Vote strongandbig seriously? what do you want from me? should i ignore the fact that people are calling for me to be killed? You could start scumhunting instead of finding reasons for why you could be town.
(1) I already have a scumread that I want people to lynch. no one is engaging my case. I'm not sure how you think I could be more effective just saying the same things about Risen that I've already said.
(2) how can i start scumhunting if people are assuming i'm scum, they're not going to listen to anything i say or else will say "i'm just attacking someone else to defend myself."
(3) everyone so far has been ignoring everything i've said about risen and just used it as reasons to find me scummy
(4) i honestly believe that it is more important as a townie not to get lynched than it is to find scum. I have consistently said this both in and out of games for the past year. I am not going to ignore the fact that I am the number one lynch candidate and that people are voting me for bad reasons, if I can show them why their reasons are bad and persuade them not to vote me then that is way more important to me than persuading them to vote for someone else.
So tell me. What do you think about the "reasons why I could be town." Care to tell me why you think I'm scum despite the reasons given being all either based on activity or untrue? Why you suddenly decide that I'm the number one person who should be killed?
oh also HOW ARE MY ATTACKS ON RISEN OR VIVAX REACTIVE OR PASSIVE? YOU ARE MAKING SHIT UP!!!!!
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On August 15 2013 05:19 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 05:11 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 05:04 Koshi wrote:
SnB. Same question that I asked you a million times in Sicilian.
Who else than you? You always just defend yourself and don't do anything else. In Sicilian you were blaming Vivax his tunnel on you. This time you are going to use the fact that you and Yamato can't be on the same scumteam... You flipped scum in Sicilian and all my townreads are on your ass atm. If I would have a vote I would vote you in an instant. a townie's first duty is to not get lynched. defending yourself if you're going to get lynched is the most important thing. i want to kill risen as i have made abundantly clear. i'm not satisfied at all with either of their answers. I think risen's day 1 shows his scum mindset and he hasn't gotten much better since then, he's spent the whole rest of the game tunneling sharrant and now he's voting me because i thought he had one good point in his case on sharrant but i still think he's scum. i also still think vivax is probably scum but risen is still number one on my kill list atm. And rayn? or not anymore? why?
I don't think I ever actually called rayn scum, but it's true I attacked him a bunch. I'm still not sure about rayn, but clarity told me in pms that he thought rayn really seemed similar to his last town game, and that the irrelevant questions and random fights from rayn are not indicative of him being scum. I still think clarity is probably town despite his case on me being terrible, and I also decided I was getting too pissed off at rayn to keep thinking objectively. So no, my kill list is risen and vivax.
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On August 15 2013 05:21 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 05:18 Risen wrote:On August 15 2013 05:13 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:12 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 05:09 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 15 2013 04:54 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 04:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 15 2013 04:45 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 03:42 Vivax wrote:
Look, Xatalos. My question regarding your (suddenly not any more?) scumread, of which you fail to understand why he would attack you like that (although he's your scumread you don't see scummy intentions?).
Can you answer this or will you post some more insults, lols and rofls, great lord of house shitvotes?
[quote]
I think it's pretty null to make such a stupid mistake. How would scum benefit from doing that on purpose? It looked more like he was overjoyed about finding a scumslip and went with it, not like he tried to justify a scumread on me or anything like that. It was so sudden and weird. Could still be scum motivated, just seemed more like null or even townish to do that. I think you're just not reading the thread. My suspicions for Risen had already started before I noticed his inconsistent thought process. Then he posted that he had only suspected DI because of his connection to me. That's just 100% false. 1) It was the other way around, a big part of his case of his case on me was based on my connection to DI. 2) Even if it wasn't the other way around, it wasn't possibly ONLY because of DI's connection to me. There were many other reasons but nothing about a connection. It made me think his original case was all made up, since he couldn't even grasp the logic of his own case HIMSELF. What town would decide their reads, then justify them with bad logic, then not even understand the logic behind their reads? That's right, only scum would do that. (After witnessing Risen's total failure in thinking on several occasions, I've had to admit that maybe he's just incapable of logic altogether.) On August 15 2013 02:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:
[quote]
- Your posts before Acro's case imply that he is your scumread. Tell me when did you drop your suspicion on him.
- Explain this: "He didn't say "Sharrant isn't playing his town meta and thus is town", he said several points and counter-points and concluded town... " because that's exactly what Mocsta said. If not, why did you not say this in the first place?
- About the rolename thing (is this all you are going to bring up - i thought you had more things as you implied so). I talked about it with Solstice, i do not agree with him, and i think it's not alignment indicative. I am not calling johnny scum because of it, I AM SAYING HE IS NOT TOWN BECAUSE OF IT!!!! wtf?
- You didn't explain the "forced aggression", where is it? Gimme quotes?
You are calling me scum for things you don't even know what they mean. Do you see how retarded that is? I still suspected Acro somewhat when I was arguing with him, and I still do have some very slight suspicion. But iamperfection's strong belief in Acro being town and the townish feeling of the argument between us made me stop pursuing him as potential scum. If he's still alive at LYLO, there would be reason to revisit him. I think you misread his post. He had several points for Sharrant being town or for being scum. He said something like "Sharrant isn't playing his town meta, but he's been AFK so that might explain it. Overall leaning town". Just reread it with an objective mind. The rolename thing = the "forced aggression". At least I think so, you should go ask him. I can't know what he's thinking. I was just trying to say that he's not necessarily scum and he's not a good lynch for today. Maybe for later, but not at the moment. I'm not going to restart the argument about the rolenames, it already buried countless pages for no gain. And it wasn't the only thing I mentioned, I also mentioned that you had apparently wasted iamperfection's time with pointless questions and had tons of useless filler one-liner posts. where have i wasted iamps time with pointless questions? your other answers fall into the category: You are calling me scum for things you don't even know what they mean. Do you see how retarded that is? From iamperfection's last will: "Asked some pointless questions to me wasting time and therefore posting without a point would still guess he is town though." I'm not even calling you scum. Just that you're scum much more likely than in NWM and more likely than Acro. So do you know what these pointless questions are? Because i sure do not. Why are you bringing them up if you don't? To me it seems like you are trying to throw shit on someone who a now confirmed town was suspicious about. And to strengthen your D2 read, which was full of shit. Why did you say i "was focusing on wrong things"? You have never explained that. I guess he means Lord PM's. Impossible to prove that though. I won't make the mistake of "confirming" someone and let them do whatever they want. I did that with Ace and Koshi in NWM, for example, and it was ugly. If there's reason for doubt, I will point it out. Have you considered that "wrong things" might mean things such as the rolename spam, pointless one-liners and whatever iamperfection meant? I find it pretty damning that all of snb's contributions come under pressure. His play is completely reactive and passive. It's time to increase the pressure. ##Vote strongandbig seriously? what do you want from me? should i ignore the fact that people are calling for me to be killed? You could start scumhunting instead of finding reasons for why you could be town. Though to be fair this is an actual point that might make sense if you hadn't just posted a case. He only repeated his earlier weak case and said Vivax was scum for no reason. Why are you soft defending him while voting for him?
i gave a reason for vivax being scum, compared his play in this game and his method of pushing his reads to his usual town play and they're startlingly different. And my case on risen is not weak, no one has talked about it but his day 1 demonstrates a clear scum mindset and he has done nothing else but tunnel sharrant and then attack me for agreeing with him (on one argument) while still thinking he's scum.
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On August 15 2013 05:24 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 05:21 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:18 Risen wrote:On August 15 2013 05:13 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:12 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 05:09 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 15 2013 04:54 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 04:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 15 2013 04:45 Xatalos wrote:
[quote]
I think it's pretty null to make such a stupid mistake. How would scum benefit from doing that on purpose? It looked more like he was overjoyed about finding a scumslip and went with it, not like he tried to justify a scumread on me or anything like that. It was so sudden and weird. Could still be scum motivated, just seemed more like null or even townish to do that.
I think you're just not reading the thread. My suspicions for Risen had already started before I noticed his inconsistent thought process. Then he posted that he had only suspected DI because of his connection to me. That's just 100% false.
1) It was the other way around, a big part of his case of his case on me was based on my connection to DI.
2) Even if it wasn't the other way around, it wasn't possibly ONLY because of DI's connection to me. There were many other reasons but nothing about a connection.
It made me think his original case was all made up, since he couldn't even grasp the logic of his own case HIMSELF. What town would decide their reads, then justify them with bad logic, then not even understand the logic behind their reads? That's right, only scum would do that. (After witnessing Risen's total failure in thinking on several occasions, I've had to admit that maybe he's just incapable of logic altogether.)
[quote]
I still suspected Acro somewhat when I was arguing with him, and I still do have some very slight suspicion. But iamperfection's strong belief in Acro being town and the townish feeling of the argument between us made me stop pursuing him as potential scum. If he's still alive at LYLO, there would be reason to revisit him.
I think you misread his post. He had several points for Sharrant being town or for being scum. He said something like "Sharrant isn't playing his town meta, but he's been AFK so that might explain it. Overall leaning town". Just reread it with an objective mind.
The rolename thing = the "forced aggression". At least I think so, you should go ask him. I can't know what he's thinking. I was just trying to say that he's not necessarily scum and he's not a good lynch for today. Maybe for later, but not at the moment. I'm not going to restart the argument about the rolenames, it already buried countless pages for no gain. And it wasn't the only thing I mentioned, I also mentioned that you had apparently wasted iamperfection's time with pointless questions and had tons of useless filler one-liner posts. where have i wasted iamps time with pointless questions? your other answers fall into the category: You are calling me scum for things you don't even know what they mean. Do you see how retarded that is? From iamperfection's last will: "Asked some pointless questions to me wasting time and therefore posting without a point would still guess he is town though." I'm not even calling you scum. Just that you're scum much more likely than in NWM and more likely than Acro. So do you know what these pointless questions are? Because i sure do not. Why are you bringing them up if you don't? To me it seems like you are trying to throw shit on someone who a now confirmed town was suspicious about. And to strengthen your D2 read, which was full of shit. Why did you say i "was focusing on wrong things"? You have never explained that. I guess he means Lord PM's. Impossible to prove that though. I won't make the mistake of "confirming" someone and let them do whatever they want. I did that with Ace and Koshi in NWM, for example, and it was ugly. If there's reason for doubt, I will point it out. Have you considered that "wrong things" might mean things such as the rolename spam, pointless one-liners and whatever iamperfection meant? I find it pretty damning that all of snb's contributions come under pressure. His play is completely reactive and passive. It's time to increase the pressure. ##Vote strongandbig seriously? what do you want from me? should i ignore the fact that people are calling for me to be killed? You could start scumhunting instead of finding reasons for why you could be town. Though to be fair this is an actual point that might make sense if you hadn't just posted a case. He only repeated his earlier weak case and said Vivax was scum for no reason. Why are you soft defending him while voting for him? Wait what? My vote is on SnB. Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 05:21 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 05:13 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:12 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 05:09 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 15 2013 04:54 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 04:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 15 2013 04:45 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 03:42 Vivax wrote:
Look, Xatalos. My question regarding your (suddenly not any more?) scumread, of which you fail to understand why he would attack you like that (although he's your scumread you don't see scummy intentions?).
Can you answer this or will you post some more insults, lols and rofls, great lord of house shitvotes?
[quote]
I think it's pretty null to make such a stupid mistake. How would scum benefit from doing that on purpose? It looked more like he was overjoyed about finding a scumslip and went with it, not like he tried to justify a scumread on me or anything like that. It was so sudden and weird. Could still be scum motivated, just seemed more like null or even townish to do that. I think you're just not reading the thread. My suspicions for Risen had already started before I noticed his inconsistent thought process. Then he posted that he had only suspected DI because of his connection to me. That's just 100% false. 1) It was the other way around, a big part of his case of his case on me was based on my connection to DI. 2) Even if it wasn't the other way around, it wasn't possibly ONLY because of DI's connection to me. There were many other reasons but nothing about a connection. It made me think his original case was all made up, since he couldn't even grasp the logic of his own case HIMSELF. What town would decide their reads, then justify them with bad logic, then not even understand the logic behind their reads? That's right, only scum would do that. (After witnessing Risen's total failure in thinking on several occasions, I've had to admit that maybe he's just incapable of logic altogether.) On August 15 2013 02:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:
[quote]
- Your posts before Acro's case imply that he is your scumread. Tell me when did you drop your suspicion on him.
- Explain this: "He didn't say "Sharrant isn't playing his town meta and thus is town", he said several points and counter-points and concluded town... " because that's exactly what Mocsta said. If not, why did you not say this in the first place?
- About the rolename thing (is this all you are going to bring up - i thought you had more things as you implied so). I talked about it with Solstice, i do not agree with him, and i think it's not alignment indicative. I am not calling johnny scum because of it, I AM SAYING HE IS NOT TOWN BECAUSE OF IT!!!! wtf?
- You didn't explain the "forced aggression", where is it? Gimme quotes?
You are calling me scum for things you don't even know what they mean. Do you see how retarded that is? I still suspected Acro somewhat when I was arguing with him, and I still do have some very slight suspicion. But iamperfection's strong belief in Acro being town and the townish feeling of the argument between us made me stop pursuing him as potential scum. If he's still alive at LYLO, there would be reason to revisit him. I think you misread his post. He had several points for Sharrant being town or for being scum. He said something like "Sharrant isn't playing his town meta, but he's been AFK so that might explain it. Overall leaning town". Just reread it with an objective mind. The rolename thing = the "forced aggression". At least I think so, you should go ask him. I can't know what he's thinking. I was just trying to say that he's not necessarily scum and he's not a good lynch for today. Maybe for later, but not at the moment. I'm not going to restart the argument about the rolenames, it already buried countless pages for no gain. And it wasn't the only thing I mentioned, I also mentioned that you had apparently wasted iamperfection's time with pointless questions and had tons of useless filler one-liner posts. where have i wasted iamps time with pointless questions? your other answers fall into the category: You are calling me scum for things you don't even know what they mean. Do you see how retarded that is? From iamperfection's last will: "Asked some pointless questions to me wasting time and therefore posting without a point would still guess he is town though." I'm not even calling you scum. Just that you're scum much more likely than in NWM and more likely than Acro. So do you know what these pointless questions are? Because i sure do not. Why are you bringing them up if you don't? To me it seems like you are trying to throw shit on someone who a now confirmed town was suspicious about. And to strengthen your D2 read, which was full of shit. Why did you say i "was focusing on wrong things"? You have never explained that. I guess he means Lord PM's. Impossible to prove that though. I won't make the mistake of "confirming" someone and let them do whatever they want. I did that with Ace and Koshi in NWM, for example, and it was ugly. If there's reason for doubt, I will point it out. Have you considered that "wrong things" might mean things such as the rolename spam, pointless one-liners and whatever iamperfection meant? I find it pretty damning that all of snb's contributions come under pressure. His play is completely reactive and passive. It's time to increase the pressure. ##Vote strongandbig seriously? what do you want from me? should i ignore the fact that people are calling for me to be killed? You could start scumhunting instead of finding reasons for why you could be town. (1) I already have a scumread that I want people to lynch. no one is engaging my case. I'm not sure how you think I could be more effective just saying the same things about Risen that I've already said. (2) how can i start scumhunting if people are assuming i'm scum, they're not going to listen to anything i say or else will say "i'm just attacking someone else to defend myself." (3) everyone so far has been ignoring everything i've said about risen and just used it as reasons to find me scummy (4) i honestly believe that it is more important as a townie not to get lynched than it is to find scum. I have consistently said this both in and out of games for the past year. I am not going to ignore the fact that I am the number one lynch candidate and that people are voting me for bad reasons, if I can show them why their reasons are bad and persuade them not to vote me then that is way more important to me than persuading them to vote for someone else. So tell me. What do you think about the "reasons why I could be town." Care to tell me why you think I'm scum despite the reasons given being all either based on activity or untrue? Why you suddenly decide that I'm the number one person who should be killed? oh also HOW ARE MY ATTACKS ON RISEN OR VIVAX REACTIVE OR PASSIVE? YOU ARE MAKING SHIT UP!!!!! I hate people ignoring my case so please link me to or write out exactly what you want answered and I will do so.
well, its kind of hard to talk to you about my case on you when what i want is for other people to pay attention to it but the last interaction anyone had with me about it was this convo with rayn which he abandoned:
On August 13 2013 05:01 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 13 2013 03:31 strongandbig wrote:On August 13 2013 03:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 13 2013 03:22 strongandbig wrote:
rayn can you explain why you have a town read on risen?
Do you really think his first reads post could come from scum!Risen? Basically because of that. yes i do and i said why did you read my post? Yes i read your post. First you say Risen is scum for calling out anti-town behavior (Oats/yamato/DI). not for calling out anti-town behavior. For calling people "scum" because they're playing badly as town, not because of actual behaviors that indicate they are scum. Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: Sounds good. You are also saying he should know their meta. Afaik the guy has had a long break from mafia (correct me if i am wrong here). People (aside me) tend to forget how people play in games, just look at Titanic where i was trying to confirm Oats in a way or another from the game he played a couple of weeks ago. Didn´t work. So calling out anti-town behavior without looking into players last games makes him mafia?
well, if he really had forgotten everything about those players then my "should have known better" point wouldn't be correct. I don't think it's that easy to forget things like "this player gets in fights" or especially to forget dandel ion. but anyway, even if that is the case - there's still the fact that an experienced player would, if they were town, know that townies get in fights and fuck up the thread too, and that spamming doesn't make you scum. Come on rayn, making cases against bad play rather than scum-motivated play is scum 101 and that's what risen was doing here, whether or not he knew anyone's meta. Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Then there is a connection case. You said townies can do that too. That´s right. Did you check if Risen does that as town? As scum? At least you didn´t tell that in your case. If you are gonna tell Risen is scum for something both town/mafia do, at least provide some evidence.
that's why this was a minor point, it's something that both town and scum do but scum are more likely to do it than townies are. Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Huge post - makes him scum how? i never said it did, i was trying to explain why it doesn't make him town. Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
"Easy reads" for anti town behavior - makes him scum how?
duh. if someone is choosing easy targets and making easy cases against them, it's because that person is not actually trying to find real scum but just trying to look like they are. Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
How is Risen´s post "constructed and careful"?
compare it to the entire rest of his filter. he obviously spent more time on that post than on anything else he's done - it's much longer, but also (for example) he uses quotes more (the only place he uses quotes as examples rather than things to respond to). and yet he spends all that effort making terrible, scummy reads. Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
The only thing that holds water in your post is that he has not explained / pursued his reads. Fuck, a half of the playerbase doesn´t even seem to have reads. If you think Risen´s reads are bad, why don´t you question him on them? Instead you want to hear from people who have been in contact with him?? Why? Why not from him? i want to hear from people who have been in contact with him because maybe he's been putting more effort into his reads and the game outside of the thread. those people can give me information that i can't get from reading his filter. i fully expect him to answer my case but i shouldn't have to ask for it specifically, should i?
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On August 15 2013 05:27 Risen wrote:
^I don't know what was scummy about my d1 play, please link the case detailing what you thought was scummy to me. Also please explain why my actions d2 and today have been scummy.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=19495357
since then: you've been focusing basically entirely on sharrant. Your initial reasons were mostly bad, and when sharrant answered them you ignored his answers and continued to tunnel him, and me and acro largely because of the connection case with sharrant. it's scummy because your ignoring his answers, and focusing on connections before he flips, make it more likely to be a convenient way to "remain consistent" and have some thread presence without having to actually hunt scum in a meaningful way.
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On August 15 2013 05:29 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 05:21 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 05:13 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:12 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 05:09 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 15 2013 04:54 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 04:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 15 2013 04:45 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 03:42 Vivax wrote:
Look, Xatalos. My question regarding your (suddenly not any more?) scumread, of which you fail to understand why he would attack you like that (although he's your scumread you don't see scummy intentions?).
Can you answer this or will you post some more insults, lols and rofls, great lord of house shitvotes?
[quote]
I think it's pretty null to make such a stupid mistake. How would scum benefit from doing that on purpose? It looked more like he was overjoyed about finding a scumslip and went with it, not like he tried to justify a scumread on me or anything like that. It was so sudden and weird. Could still be scum motivated, just seemed more like null or even townish to do that. I think you're just not reading the thread. My suspicions for Risen had already started before I noticed his inconsistent thought process. Then he posted that he had only suspected DI because of his connection to me. That's just 100% false. 1) It was the other way around, a big part of his case of his case on me was based on my connection to DI. 2) Even if it wasn't the other way around, it wasn't possibly ONLY because of DI's connection to me. There were many other reasons but nothing about a connection. It made me think his original case was all made up, since he couldn't even grasp the logic of his own case HIMSELF. What town would decide their reads, then justify them with bad logic, then not even understand the logic behind their reads? That's right, only scum would do that. (After witnessing Risen's total failure in thinking on several occasions, I've had to admit that maybe he's just incapable of logic altogether.) On August 15 2013 02:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:
[quote]
- Your posts before Acro's case imply that he is your scumread. Tell me when did you drop your suspicion on him.
- Explain this: "He didn't say "Sharrant isn't playing his town meta and thus is town", he said several points and counter-points and concluded town... " because that's exactly what Mocsta said. If not, why did you not say this in the first place?
- About the rolename thing (is this all you are going to bring up - i thought you had more things as you implied so). I talked about it with Solstice, i do not agree with him, and i think it's not alignment indicative. I am not calling johnny scum because of it, I AM SAYING HE IS NOT TOWN BECAUSE OF IT!!!! wtf?
- You didn't explain the "forced aggression", where is it? Gimme quotes?
You are calling me scum for things you don't even know what they mean. Do you see how retarded that is? I still suspected Acro somewhat when I was arguing with him, and I still do have some very slight suspicion. But iamperfection's strong belief in Acro being town and the townish feeling of the argument between us made me stop pursuing him as potential scum. If he's still alive at LYLO, there would be reason to revisit him. I think you misread his post. He had several points for Sharrant being town or for being scum. He said something like "Sharrant isn't playing his town meta, but he's been AFK so that might explain it. Overall leaning town". Just reread it with an objective mind. The rolename thing = the "forced aggression". At least I think so, you should go ask him. I can't know what he's thinking. I was just trying to say that he's not necessarily scum and he's not a good lynch for today. Maybe for later, but not at the moment. I'm not going to restart the argument about the rolenames, it already buried countless pages for no gain. And it wasn't the only thing I mentioned, I also mentioned that you had apparently wasted iamperfection's time with pointless questions and had tons of useless filler one-liner posts. where have i wasted iamps time with pointless questions? your other answers fall into the category: You are calling me scum for things you don't even know what they mean. Do you see how retarded that is? From iamperfection's last will: "Asked some pointless questions to me wasting time and therefore posting without a point would still guess he is town though." I'm not even calling you scum. Just that you're scum much more likely than in NWM and more likely than Acro. So do you know what these pointless questions are? Because i sure do not. Why are you bringing them up if you don't? To me it seems like you are trying to throw shit on someone who a now confirmed town was suspicious about. And to strengthen your D2 read, which was full of shit. Why did you say i "was focusing on wrong things"? You have never explained that. I guess he means Lord PM's. Impossible to prove that though. I won't make the mistake of "confirming" someone and let them do whatever they want. I did that with Ace and Koshi in NWM, for example, and it was ugly. If there's reason for doubt, I will point it out. Have you considered that "wrong things" might mean things such as the rolename spam, pointless one-liners and whatever iamperfection meant? I find it pretty damning that all of snb's contributions come under pressure. His play is completely reactive and passive. It's time to increase the pressure. ##Vote strongandbig seriously? what do you want from me? should i ignore the fact that people are calling for me to be killed? You could start scumhunting instead of finding reasons for why you could be town. (1) I already have a scumread that I want people to lynch. no one is engaging my case. I'm not sure how you think I could be more effective just saying the same things about Risen that I've already said. (2) how can i start scumhunting if people are assuming i'm scum, they're not going to listen to anything i say or else will say "i'm just attacking someone else to defend myself." (3) everyone so far has been ignoring everything i've said about risen and just used it as reasons to find me scummy (4) i honestly believe that it is more important as a townie not to get lynched than it is to find scum. I have consistently said this both in and out of games for the past year. I am not going to ignore the fact that I am the number one lynch candidate and that people are voting me for bad reasons, if I can show them why their reasons are bad and persuade them not to vote me then that is way more important to me than persuading them to vote for someone else. So tell me. What do you think about the "reasons why I could be town." Care to tell me why you think I'm scum despite the reasons given being all either based on activity or untrue? Why you suddenly decide that I'm the number one person who should be killed? oh also HOW ARE MY ATTACKS ON RISEN OR VIVAX REACTIVE OR PASSIVE? YOU ARE MAKING SHIT UP!!!!! This post sounds like the dying cry of a wounded animal for some reason. I think yamato's push on you is pretty null. He could have chosen to softly bus you (not going to get you lynched in any case). Or you're town and he just chose some townie. Actually the bussing theory makes more sense, but it's pretty null. Reactive: posting under pressure. Not doing anything meaningful while not under pressure. Scumhunting is the most important attribute of a townie. It's the most important part of defending yourself. If you can't provide that, even under pressure, you're not showing a town mindset. The problem is that when you're under pressure, you "can't focus". When you're not under pressure, you choose to just be passive. Why is Vivax scum? Do you have any other scumreads besides him and Risen? What do you think of Risen's failure attack on me?
yamato's pressure was not soft, he was the one who started the arguments and themes that are currently getting me killed.
i was not passive on day two, i put together a large case on risen, and i was not passive earlier this morning when i started posting about vivax.
vivax is scum because he gave up his reads so easily when lords didn't agree with him, which is absolutely nothing like the town vivax i've played with, who shouts his reads at the mountains until the end of time and just rages when people don't listen to him. that's the main reason
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i've wasted way too much time at work already. i'll be back in a few hours or something, idk. i'm not sure if i can keep this up, maybe it would be easier just to say fuck it.
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On August 15 2013 05:40 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 05:36 strongandbig wrote:
i've wasted way too much time at work already. i'll be back in a few hours or something, idk. i'm not sure if i can keep this up, maybe it would be easier just to say fuck it. Just keep in mind that martyring means auto-lynch. It creates a terrible meta where scum can martyr and stop posting whenever they're pressured. Even if you are genuinely frustrated, it's not acceptable.
i'm not martyring
just expressing my frustration is all, i'll be back.
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On August 15 2013 06:30 Clarity_nl wrote:
@ Acro, it really was the fact that he pushed yamato so hard in pms. He tried to get snb to shoot yamato as well and he had good arguments and reasoning. As I said in my deathpost it was his only redeeming quality, although with vivax' recent posts I actually feel more comfortable that if one of snb/vivax is scum, it's snb.
@snb, stop saying you're not scum and scumhunt. Make a list. Do something that makes you look townie. Screaming that you're town accomplishes nothing, and blaming the lack of scumhunting on pressure is what I did in my first scumgame.
You think risen and vivax are scum. Who else?
please respond to my answers to you or else unvote me
On August 15 2013 04:42 strongandbig wrote:
Clarity, I also like how you're telling me I had no presence in pms on d2 when the reason for that was that YOU told me you wanted to keep things more in the thread!
On August 15 2013 04:43 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 04:41 Clarity_nl wrote:On August 15 2013 04:35 strongandbig wrote:
why would i want to be lord d2 when i knew i wouldn't be active on sunday.
how am i supposed to prove that i'm townie when idiots keep calling for me to be shot and i have to spend all my time defending myself.
and it's straight up not true that everyone thought that list post was terrible. for example, iamperfection told me that risen was town just because of that post, because he thoguht scum risen would never put that much effort into a post. i had to explain why that post was scummy so i could counteract that argument.
and of course my case is comprised of risen's day one he posted like three one-liners on day 2!
Your case boils down to "you disagree with my case on risen and you don't like that I've had to defend myself all the time after I got back."
Well let me ask you a few things.
(1) What happened to your "strong town read" on me after day 1? Do you think I would have been that active as scum in PMs and then suddenly decided I didn't care anymore?
(2) I was practically yamato's ONLY REAL PUSH. Do you think if we were on a scum team together he would have been pushing me, for the EXACT SAME REASONS you are pushing me for now - inactivity and "not caring", when he would have known I would be away and not defend myself for several days? Seriously? 1) it.. like... went away or something, I dunno. 2) He was pushing you d1. You were around d1, nor were you under any threat of being lynched. He didn't push you d2 he was too busy posting baby seals and shit. So you're misrepresenting stuff now. he was pushing me after i went camping. I was camping friday through sunday aka the second day of D1 (when he started pushing me and if we were scum he would have known I wouldn't be able to respond), the night phase, and the first day of D2
On August 15 2013 05:21 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 05:13 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:12 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 05:09 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 15 2013 04:54 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 04:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 15 2013 04:45 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 03:42 Vivax wrote:Look, Xatalos. My question regarding your (suddenly not any more?) scumread, of which you fail to understand why he would attack you like that (although he's your scumread you don't see scummy intentions?). Can you answer this or will you post some more insults, lols and rofls, great lord of house shitvotes? On August 15 2013 00:55 Vivax wrote:
I don't see what you mean with contradictory statements from Risen. You posted that he was wrong about you and Dandel, afterwards you posted this:
[quote]
So I wonder now, why do you mention something that is supposed to make him scum when in the past it wasn't reason enough and you gave him a townread in spite of what you call a contradiction now.
I think it's pretty null to make such a stupid mistake. How would scum benefit from doing that on purpose? It looked more like he was overjoyed about finding a scumslip and went with it, not like he tried to justify a scumread on me or anything like that. It was so sudden and weird. Could still be scum motivated, just seemed more like null or even townish to do that. I think you're just not reading the thread. My suspicions for Risen had already started before I noticed his inconsistent thought process. Then he posted that he had only suspected DI because of his connection to me. That's just 100% false. 1) It was the other way around, a big part of his case of his case on me was based on my connection to DI. 2) Even if it wasn't the other way around, it wasn't possibly ONLY because of DI's connection to me. There were many other reasons but nothing about a connection. It made me think his original case was all made up, since he couldn't even grasp the logic of his own case HIMSELF. What town would decide their reads, then justify them with bad logic, then not even understand the logic behind their reads? That's right, only scum would do that. (After witnessing Risen's total failure in thinking on several occasions, I've had to admit that maybe he's just incapable of logic altogether.) On August 15 2013 02:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 15 2013 02:31 Xatalos wrote:
[quote]
Indeed. Buddying up? Or what? rayn is never lurky. At least looking at NWM, Titanic and Catch 22, he was always spammy and active as scum or town. What I'm trying to distinguish is townish activity and scummy activity. He's going to be active regardless.
[quote]
I've explained why I went along with Acro in detail already. It had to do with my increasing townread on Acro, my bad gut feeling regarding you, your useless spam posts and me believing that one of you (rayn, Acro) was probably scum (I'm not as sure about that one anymore). Go read my filter please, it should be clear at this point.
Onwards to the Mocsta case.
- I agree that jrkirby was scummy
- You twist some of what Mocsta said... He didn't say "Sharrant isn't playing his town meta and thus is town", he said several points and counter-points and concluded town... Dunno about the lynchbait thing
- At least iamperfection has said that he has a townread on you in PMs, your terrible early game might refer to your spam about the rolename thing, "forced aggression" might also mean the useless spam, lastly hard to talk about a game I haven't played in (and meta shouldn't be overused)
Overall I'd say Mocsta is slightly scummy (counting jrkirby's scumminess), and a pretty reasonable lynch, but he has been very active today and I'd like to give him a bit more time (like I said earlier). - Your posts before Acro's case imply that he is your scumread. Tell me when did you drop your suspicion on him. - Explain this: "He didn't say "Sharrant isn't playing his town meta and thus is town", he said several points and counter-points and concluded town... " because that's exactly what Mocsta said. If not, why did you not say this in the first place? - About the rolename thing (is this all you are going to bring up - i thought you had more things as you implied so). I talked about it with Solstice, i do not agree with him, and i think it's not alignment indicative. I am not calling johnny scum because of it, I AM SAYING HE IS NOT TOWN BECAUSE OF IT!!!! wtf? - You didn't explain the "forced aggression", where is it? Gimme quotes? You are calling me scum for things you don't even know what they mean. Do you see how retarded that is? I still suspected Acro somewhat when I was arguing with him, and I still do have some very slight suspicion. But iamperfection's strong belief in Acro being town and the townish feeling of the argument between us made me stop pursuing him as potential scum. If he's still alive at LYLO, there would be reason to revisit him. I think you misread his post. He had several points for Sharrant being town or for being scum. He said something like "Sharrant isn't playing his town meta, but he's been AFK so that might explain it. Overall leaning town". Just reread it with an objective mind. The rolename thing = the "forced aggression". At least I think so, you should go ask him. I can't know what he's thinking. I was just trying to say that he's not necessarily scum and he's not a good lynch for today. Maybe for later, but not at the moment. I'm not going to restart the argument about the rolenames, it already buried countless pages for no gain. And it wasn't the only thing I mentioned, I also mentioned that you had apparently wasted iamperfection's time with pointless questions and had tons of useless filler one-liner posts. where have i wasted iamps time with pointless questions? your other answers fall into the category: You are calling me scum for things you don't even know what they mean. Do you see how retarded that is? From iamperfection's last will: "Asked some pointless questions to me wasting time and therefore posting without a point would still guess he is town though." I'm not even calling you scum. Just that you're scum much more likely than in NWM and more likely than Acro. So do you know what these pointless questions are? Because i sure do not. Why are you bringing them up if you don't? To me it seems like you are trying to throw shit on someone who a now confirmed town was suspicious about. And to strengthen your D2 read, which was full of shit. Why did you say i "was focusing on wrong things"? You have never explained that. I guess he means Lord PM's. Impossible to prove that though. I won't make the mistake of "confirming" someone and let them do whatever they want. I did that with Ace and Koshi in NWM, for example, and it was ugly. If there's reason for doubt, I will point it out. Have you considered that "wrong things" might mean things such as the rolename spam, pointless one-liners and whatever iamperfection meant? I find it pretty damning that all of snb's contributions come under pressure. His play is completely reactive and passive. It's time to increase the pressure. ##Vote strongandbig seriously? what do you want from me? should i ignore the fact that people are calling for me to be killed? You could start scumhunting instead of finding reasons for why you could be town. (1) I already have a scumread that I want people to lynch. no one is engaging my case. I'm not sure how you think I could be more effective just saying the same things about Risen that I've already said. (2) how can i start scumhunting if people are assuming i'm scum, they're not going to listen to anything i say or else will say "i'm just attacking someone else to defend myself." (3) everyone so far has been ignoring everything i've said about risen and just used it as reasons to find me scummy (4) i honestly believe that it is more important as a townie not to get lynched than it is to find scum. I have consistently said this both in and out of games for the past year. I am not going to ignore the fact that I am the number one lynch candidate and that people are voting me for bad reasons, if I can show them why their reasons are bad and persuade them not to vote me then that is way more important to me than persuading them to vote for someone else. So tell me. What do you think about the "reasons why I could be town." Care to tell me why you think I'm scum despite the reasons given being all either based on activity or untrue? Why you suddenly decide that I'm the number one person who should be killed? oh also HOW ARE MY ATTACKS ON RISEN OR VIVAX REACTIVE OR PASSIVE? YOU ARE MAKING SHIT UP!!!!!
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On August 15 2013 07:15 Clarity_nl wrote:
Pretty sure we're finishing you off unless you become useful today, kush.
@ snb, I'm not quite sure when I said you weren't active in pms d2 specifically.
Yamato pushing you could mean anything, doesn't prove you town.
3rd post isn't even me, that's xata...
Risen however is an easy target, and vivax has been a popular person to push this game, so it's not hard seeing scum going for those two.
Really though, scumhunt please. Make a list post.. anything but more posts of you saying "but I'm town"
nah, i'm going home soon. i'll post more tomorrow.
PS my posts aren't "but i'm town", they're "your reasons for thinking i'm scum are stupid and you should feel bad." big difference.
PPS
On August 15 2013 04:19 Clarity_nl wrote:
3) d2 he didn't do much, that's simply how it is. He had no presence in the thread at all, nor im pms.
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im back omg
ima try not to get so mad again. apparently reasoned argument from an emotional position isn't enough to convince people.
On August 15 2013 17:29 Mocsta wrote:
Snb.. shoulda realised this earlier. But a town snb always pushes oats as a lynch. Didn't get that this game.. I need to do another read on him too but I don't think yamato pushed him that hard. U could argue he pushed snb as hard as he pushed acro.
its cause oats was in my house so i could pm him. i talked to him quite a lot on n0 and got a town read on him because his reads on the clarity situation seemed reasonable and made sense to me, and because he seemed to be putting more thought into the implications of vivax's and clarity's actions to their alignments (and more thought in general) than I would have expected from scum-oats. Also because of a general feel of townieness I got from him, like he was really trying to work through things instead of just trying to seem like he was working through things. Once the day started and I was starting from a position of "probably town" his general fumblings reinforced that read, so I never felt like he was scum.
also you should realize, scum snb also always pushes oats as a lynch. it's an easy way to follow my town meta.
On August 15 2013 22:35 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 22:29 Mocsta wrote:On August 15 2013 22:24 Xatalos wrote:
By the way.....
"Strongandbig
I don’t get the early plan role thing. But whatevers. Hard guy to read cos of low give a crap factor. I think hes town personally. Cant really pinpoint why though. Overall; I just don’t feel hes been pushing anything… hence town."
WHAT? Scum SnB in my experience, is always trying to push something. Thats where that came from. Town often dont give a shit, and live by the 80/20 rule. Everyone talks about model townies that are transparent and scum hunting; but fact is.. most townies are filled with sheep lurkers, and its the minority that carry the game. Its a heuristic. Reads change; and based on how SnB has handled his pressure this cycle, my read changed and the heuristic was discarded. Bad play isn't always scum play, but it's more likely scum play than good town play. Especially if the player is good as town. I don't know snb's meta though so it's hard to comment.
apparently im not very good
On August 15 2013 22:37 Acrofales wrote:
I have found that talking to Kush is an utter waste of time. He says one thing, and 10 seconds later he says something entirely different. I feel he has made it his sole purpose to be as useless as possible this game and throw it in our faces.
I don't see any reason why a townie would play like that, so he must be scum. I was asked to compare this to Kush in Smurf. There I get the feeling he is trying to find scum. Here he isn't. He was also about 5 times as active in a smaller, shorter game.
Shoot on sight.
blegh terrible.
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btw i was gonna be like "lynch dandelion instead of me because he's stopped giving a fuck and that's his scum meta".
He has 6 pages of filter day 1, followed by 2 per cycle after that. Steep dropoff in activity.
I still think that's a decent argument but it looks like the only scum games he's had since newbies where he didn't either replace in or replace out d1 were nuclear winter, where he did fit that pattern (only 2pp of filter per cycle, replaced out) and british empire, which was instant majority and so you can't compare filter lengths.
That said I only saw one town game of his where he played like this (red team, 5pp of filter d1, 1pp d2 then lynched). Other than that I went through bastard mini (6pp d1, 5pp d2 then game ended), themed game (9pp of filter d1, then 12pp between d2 and d3), and ptp4 (9pp d1, 7pp d2, then got dayvigged d3) all of which show a much smaller dropoff in activity than this game.
so he's matched this rule in 1/1 scum games that i looked at and only 1/4 town games, odds are pretty good here but it's not the slam-dunk numbers argument that i think it would be if his scum games had a larger sample size.
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On August 16 2013 02:02 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 01:58 Acrofales wrote:
@Mocsta: you have no fucking clue how SnB's scum meta works, so why are you giving him a town read based on meta. Your meta read is entirely wrong... and I want you to either explain it in detail with examples, or I will assume you just made it up. Scum-SnB is timid and doesn't push his reads AT ALL. The only exception I can think of is how we went up against Oats in Sicilian (think it was Sicilian), which he almost certainly did to emulate his town meta at the time of policy-calling-Oats-scum. Wouldn't you say he's been pretty timid and not pushing his reads this game...?
nope
#killrisen2013
i'll push something.
Risen day 1 chose easy targets, entered the thread with a scummy-as-fuck post that made a huge list of reads based on bad arguments and attacking bad play instead of scum play, and spent the rest of the day not pushing anything and shooting one-liners all over the place. clearly scum.
Risen after day 1 made a case on sharrant that had one decent point. he then proceeded to spend the rest of the day tunneling sharrant and attacking acro and myself for connection cases with sharrant, while ignoring sharrant's responses to his case and anything other people said about it. clearly scum.
he's a much better lynch than i am.
On August 16 2013 02:02 Clarity_nl wrote:
Acro, especially his d3 and onwards is just a shitstorm. The major similarity is the questions he asks. Maybe from reading his filter it doesn't come across, but most of them were completely useless. Either the answer was readily available for those who looked or the answer was gonna be useless regardless.
That is your main problem with rayn is it not?
btw, snb just said his scum meta is to push oats, and now acro just said his town meta is to push oats.
I don't believe in either one since that would be a terrible thing to do, push one person consistently as a particular alignment, but why the difference?
when i'm town i tend to think oats is scum because he asks stupid questions and does a lot of things that don't contribute to the thread's finding scum, but he posts a lot and pays a lot of attention. it always makes me think he's just doing it to have useless thread presence.
when i'm scum i tend to say oats is scum because it's an easy way to match my town meta.
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On August 16 2013 02:22 Mocsta wrote:
SnB.. gimme a read on johnnywup pl0x
k
1. he's posted way less than i have. does he have a meta that lets him get away with this? cause i'm pretty sure that i've had some of the lurkiest town games in recent tlmafia history but everyone still wants to kill me fore it.
2. 1.25 pages out of his 4 are trivia talk. excitement/activity disparity before getting his alignment? maybe not, cause being excited about trivia doesn't necessarily mean being excited about playing mafia. still, worth thinking about and means he only actually has 2.75 pages of real filter.
3. rest of page 2 of his filter is talking about setup stuff, specifically whether or not to reveal house names. quick glance at the context of this post reveals that the rayn/onegu and me/clarity things had already been well underway, but he doesn't comment on them at all. okay, he says he's reading the thread, maybe he will comment later?
oh wait no. his next post is defending himself after he was attacked for talking about third party or something. As is the rest of page 3 of his filter. okay, i am focusing on defending myself as well, maybe he also was a leading lynch candidate and thought he should, as a townie, do his best not to get mislynched? oh wait no, he had zero votes, one person said he was scum.
4. for bonus points:
On August 09 2013 06:48 johnnywup wrote:ok bookmark this post if you want + Show Spoiler [list of house members] +
House Tyrell:
Kushm4sta
johnnywup
Sharrant
Acrofales
House Greyjoy
raynpelikoneet
FirmTofu
Nachomamma8
Risen
House Stark
strongandbig
Clarity_nl
Oatsmaster
Vivax
House Lannister
iamperfection
Xatalos
Grackaroni
Gumshoe
House Baratheon
Chromatically
Koshi
S0lstice
Dandel Ion
House Martell
Oberyn
jrkirby
yamato77
Onegu
note, this is on the third page (out of 4) of his filter, it's not starting the game out. he's doing this instead of reads, not before good reads can be made.
5. Oh then on page 4, he starts martyring? Sorry bro you don't get to martyr when you don't even have votes on you, and when you haven't made a single scumread. You get to martyr when you've spent two hours arguing with people attacking you while they ignore your cases and reads.
6. for more bonus points:
On August 12 2013 18:13 johnnywup wrote:
Oh yeah can I remind people to vote yamato77 and not yamato. There was a situation in NWM where an action didn't go on because the name was misspelt, and i don't want that to happen here.
7. okay now we have some reads finally, on the last page of his filter, for the first time all game:
On August 13 2013 11:46 johnnywup wrote:
i am indeed here and think that ace, jrkirby, yamato, kush, sharrant are scum. ace is being useless and town ace is never useless. jrkirby seems pretty obvious. yamato basically claimed scum. kush is either trolling as town or scum.
on sharrant: he PMed acro that he was a cop during d1 it sounds like. makes no sense as town, obviously. but lets just say that town sharrant has a huge town read on acro...except for the fact that he lied who he was going to check in case acro was scum. you wouldn't do that if you had a town read on acro...so sharrant must have been thinking acro was null/scum. if sharrant thought acro was scum/null, why would he PM him at all? it makes no sense from town, like others have said. If sharrant was scum then he would know acro was town (or scum, I guess...). The problem here is he doesn't know acros role...but since they're agreeing on a target he doesn't have to worry about being blocked or anything, I guess. I dunno, it just seems to make a bit more sense as scum, but I really think it's just stupid from sharrants part as either town or scum >_> still think he's scum though. was an ez bus for sharrant to gain cred from, but somewhat scumslipped. acro doesn't think he's scum I think and he's the one who exchanged PMs with him, but from an outsiders POV it looks bad for sharrant @_@ I know I'm not saying anything new but this is the main reason why I think sharrant is scum.
also for the record I haven't received any PMs from kush or sharrant since forever. I haven't been sending any to anyone besides acro.
oh wait, we have ace (lurker) jkirby (lurker) yamato (redcheck) kush (lurker) sharrant (basically rewrites risen's case). yeah it would be nice if these were real reads that could make me think you are town.
8. later that page:
On August 14 2013 17:42 johnnywup wrote:Sorry my Internets being really dumb. mocsta, i had a post that I was going to post about why I thought risen/Koshi is scum, but it boils down to this: Sharrant has a good case on Koshi, I'll let him post it himself. Risen is trying to lynch the guy that gave us scum for free. It seems unlikely to be a bus to me because Yamato wasn't even really in the limelight and no one would give their scum buddy away when they're not even being scrutinized (I think..I've never played as scum). Like, sharrant is the one person who actually gave us scum on a platter, and risen wants to lynch him. What? And if any of you want to point out me agreeing with risens case, yes I changed my mind because I actually thought about it more and I liked it less and less. I'm pretty convinced sharrant is town. Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 16:21 Mocsta wrote:
Clarity
Regarding onegu
Here's a stupid thing.. take it as u want
That house list before the night post. He was meant to pm that to me.. instead he posted in the thread.
Anyways. He pms going sorry. I'm going to be modkilled what do I do.
I suggested apologise to Dr.p and edit out.
Anyways. If this guy was a scummer. I imagine first course of action is to go to qt... Not pm me.
Weak heuristic I know. So take it as u want.
Disagree that first action would be to go to qt. what would that accomplish at all? If anything the fact he wasn't mod killed makes me think he's more likely scum because mods would be less likely to modkill scum. I know that's not a case but it's something to maybe consider.
lol. lynch risen for wanting to lynch sharrant. okay you totes didn't call for that the day before.
9. COUNTERPOINT: he says
On August 10 2013 06:39 johnnywup wrote:ok im gonna reply to stuff directed at me as I'm going through the thread but literally lol rayn you can't be serious Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 01:25 raynpelikoneet wrote:
johnnywup - There are two things why i think johnnywup is mafia. The first one is his overly defensive stance on his 3p thing. When being questioned about that in thread, his first comment is "other people did not find that scummy". That´s really going overboard if you are town, why would you be more interested to tell people that other people did not find you scummy rather than if they thought you were right or wrong and how did you end up in the conclusion? Another thing that stands out is johnnywup´s house member list. In itself list posts are bad, but this is worse. He hasn´t even put a single bit off thought into the lise (notice him not realizing in which house Vivax/Gumshoe are). Scummy as fuck.
I'm defensive. Especially day 1. You should know that from NWM. Literally every single game I've played of mafia I've been accused of being mafia day 1. It's just what I'm used to at this point so of course I'm defensive. I care what people think about me because, well, I don't want to be lynched? That should be obvious. 2nd part is literally lol. It took a bit of effort trying to consolidate that. I had to look through almost everyones filter and try and find connections. When it was all done I couldn't find any connection for Gumshoe and Vivax. Go through everyones filter yourself and try and find what house they're in before the time that I posted that list. I literally couldn't find it. It was difficult putting together that list. And you say list posts are bad, yet people were literally asking for one because they wanted to know who's in what house at a glance. So I put one together. How do either of those things point towards me being mafia, at all?
So I looked at nuclear winter, like he said. it's true that he was under attack day 1. However, there are a few differences:
(1) people were actually voting him. this one is pretty important, there's a difference between being defensive when you're a realistic lynch candidate and being defensive when one or two people call you scum.
(2) he didn't only defend. He also attacked - he made a case on waveofshadow and tried to get people to vote wos instead of him. he didn't just quibble with people attacking him.
(3) He did other stuff too - he asked people questions that were relevant to scumhunting, and there was none of this filler/policy/rules posting he's been doing this game. he talked much more about game-related items.
Seriously, read his nuclear winter filter and compare it to his play this game, there's a clear difference imo.
And for more bonus points, well after the end of his "defensive" day 1 and after the pressure (which was super weak to begin with) is turned off, we get this:
On August 11 2013 16:50 johnnywup wrote:
im not very useful right now tbh.
another reason I thought acro would be a good lord is because of lord PMs. Since a lot of people are thinking acro is scum I thought that being able to PM him directly would help people get stronger reads and be able to make stronger cases against him.
lol
TLDR
Here's what I see in johnnywup's filter:
1. very bad filler to content ratio. he posts a lot without much evidence that he's trying to figure out peoples' alignments.
2. no reads until day 3! lol
3. spending an inordinate amount of time defending himself against very weak attacks. i know this might seem hypocritical but there are two differences: he wasn't at risk of dying to the lynch that he was defending against, whereas I very much am, and defending himself was all he had done in the game whereas I have at least made cases and pushed people.
4. clear difference between how he defends himself and how he interacts with the thread in this game and in his previous game, nuclear winter mafia. That game there were clear posts in the thread that you could point to and say "this is a read" or "this is a legitimate attempt to figure out someone's alignment." This game, not so much.
So mocsta, thanks for getting me to read his filter. I think he's scum.
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On August 16 2013 02:51 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 02:38 Risen wrote:
I'd rather kill Vivax over SnB, folks. Too much willingness to kill SnB and he has literally had like 0 defenders the entire game. Lot of Vivax apologists, though. Might be a product of the game format. I think 5 of the 6 lords currently are likely town. That doesn't mean I think one of them specifically is scum but the votes are all town. The reason I've defended vivax a bit really is because his n1 pushing of yamato. At one point he told me he had convinced snb that yamato would be a good shot, and he wanted me to ask snb who he'd think was a good shot, to see if he'd mention yamato. When I did, snb said "I'm just going along with iamp's plan of shooting gumshoe" without giving his own opinion. When I pressed and said something like "so you're claiming no responsibility in the outcome? btw vivax told me you agreed on yamato" snb said "yeah, I do agree with the plan, can't change it now since it's night so am shooting gumshoe, but yamato wouldn't be a bad shot" Lots of paraphrasing to hopefully that made sense. I'm not saying it because I believe that makes snb scummy, I'm saying it because I believe it makes vivax more likely to be town. I have had a bunch of interactions with both players and I believe that they can't both be scum together. I think snb is scummier than vivax. I wanna kill snb. If snb keeps contributing like he has today (I liked the dandel post) I might be willing to yolo lynch dandel, though.
i'll quote my own pm that you're referring to about the NKs.
I was gone when they were deciding on the plan so I just went along with it. (1)
There is more to their plan than just shooting gumshoe (2)
I'll take responsibility though, I read his filter before I shot him and I decided that he was a good target. (3)
I still think Yamato is a decent be for scum btw.
Also: I don't want to be lord tomorrow. I will run again to be lord d3 but I will not be active tomorrow and need to re-earn the obvitown-ness I showed n0 (4)
Who else would you want to be lord?
Commentary:
(1) i didn't want to not follow the plan when I hadn't said anything about it before the night phase started. Fucking up something that town had decided could have confused the town, screwed with the intention of the plan, etc
(2) Here I was referring to the part where we each have specific time slots to shoot during. The idea was to see who died after how many shots, and i thought people might be basing later decisions off of the assumption that i had gone along with the plan.
(3) I stand by this part. I read his filter and decided, if we're using house KP for lurker shots then he was a very good target.
(4) obviously i failed at re-earning town reads TT.
One other thing: during n2 the only PM vivax sent me about Yamato was basically "what do you think of my case on koshi and oberyn's case on yamato." then in the same PM he asked me a few other questions about my reads on acro and onegu. But he didn't actually try to persuade me at all. IDK what he told you about that exchange but what actually persuaded me on yamato were the points other people made in the thread about how we had to drag reads and contribution out of him like pulling teeth, plus the fact that I thought his push on me was very bad and made me angry at him.
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[/quote] On August 16 2013 04:44 Acrofales wrote:
Fuck it. I've reread strongandbig's filter and I think he's scum.
Name claiming
Lets start with the whole Clarity thing. I didn't like how it got blown up into a giant problem, but didn't really think much of it. However, rereading it seems somewhat scummy to nameclaim like that. Scum (at least some of them) have townie names, as evidenced by Yamato flipping Doran Martell. If, at the start of the game, you can gain some town credit by nameclaiming, this seems like a pretty good idea. If scum have some kind of KP that relies on nameclaiming, then it makes it a fucking excellent idea.
This was the reason I was a bit suspicious of johnnywup at the start of the game. Nameclaiming is simply not a townie thing to do when you have zero knowledge about the setup. He subsequently made a big stink about how Clarity sent the message on to Oatsmaster, and I found Oats' behaviour in the whole ordeal really fucking scummy, so forgot about SnB's nameclaim starting the whole thing off. But I want some answers:
SnB: why did you ignore all the risks of nameclaiming if you're town. Johnnywup, when I pressed him, claimed ignorance. You, however, are not a newbie and have played in at least 2 games I can think of where nameclaiming could get you killed (and in fact, in CT you had the very role to kill nameclaimers unless I am mistaking things). Additionally you claim it's a townie thing to do and should get you elected. You KNOW this is false. Why the lies?
this was obviously incorrect, and I wanted to see what clarity would say. When he said I get a few points for claiming my name because someone else might claim it i told him that was incorrect:
Original Message From strongandbig:
Yeah I haven't heard from vivax either.
Bee tee dubs the right answer was "it doesn't matter if you are hodor, if role name corresponds to alignment and scum don't have safe claims then the hosts are retarded and we should be acting as if they are not stupid".
Basically, I was just fishing for reactions. I pm'd oats this:
Original Message From strongandbig:
I rolenameclaimed only to clarity. Seemed like a good idea at the time. Compartmentalize what info goes to what people. I don't really know how I can make a trap out of it though.
and later this:
Original Message From strongandbig:
He didnt say much about it. Ima tell him to vote me because of it and see what he does.
Well, basically once I start to think someone is scum, I can tell the other people what information I told them and not tell them I told you? Then if they kill me and claim my role or something you can catch them? Idk, the only way rolenameclaims matter is if the hosts were dumb and made role names correspond to alignment, which I doubt. It just seemed like fun to be sneaky?
and yes i ignored the risks of name claiming. I didn't think that through, it seemed pretty out of the question that anyone would have a role which targeted my rolename.
On August 16 2013 04:44 Acrofales wrote:
Worthless reads as a lordAs a lord, we get this: Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 01:20 strongandbig wrote:
Hey guys
On phone today so I'll be less active in pms than I was for the past several days.
I want my house to pm me though and explain who they want me to vote for and why.
Currently I'm not liking clarity as a lynch target anymore. I also don't want to lynch oatsmaster. It looks like the sol case is winding down a bit but I will retread those parts before the lynch.
More later Distancing himself from his own vote. Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 06:06 strongandbig wrote:
i also wouldn't mind lynching acro for playing in character. Test balloon: lets see if we can get a decent town player lynched on a ridiculous pretext. If people wagon, then awesome, otherwise no harm no foul. Then his vote ends up on Onegu: Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 06:13 strongandbig wrote:
Right now I think I want to lynch onegu the most. I thought the pressure on him at the start was for a bad reason, but he didn't really do anything at all in the way of scumhunting when the pressure was taken off of him.
So ##vote: onegu This is one of the shoddiest votes I have ever seen, especially as the earlier posts were him actually defending Onegu: Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 00:24 strongandbig wrote:On August 09 2013 00:06 raynpelikoneet wrote:
lol Oberyn, did you even read my post?
Onegu is giving yamato town credit from an action he considers to be anti-town.. not a huge problem, his logic makes sense. he's saying it's poor play for a townie to take that action, but it doesn't make sense for a scum member to take it so it's more likely coming from a bad townie than from scum.
this is poor logic. i defended onegu because ryan's push on him was stupid, not because i had a town read on onegu. later i attacked onegu and voted for him because even when the pressure was taken off of him, he didn't use that space to do any scumhunting or anything pro-town.
On August 16 2013 04:44 Acrofales wrote:
So what made Onegu a worse lurker than jrkirby, FirmTofu, gumshoe, or really any of the other useless lurkers.
Nothing. Onegu was, in fact, a less useless lurker. But he needed to toss his vote without letting it be accountable at all.
this was not my reasoning. I did not vote to lynch onegu because he was a useless lurker but because i thought he was the most likely to be scum of any of the then-current lynch candidates. my reasoning was, as I told vivax:
onegu - i actually agree with the stuff that clarity said, he seemed excited pregame then disappeared.
- he also didn't become less defensive or more involved when rayn took off the pressure for the "contradiction" he had been attacking him for at the start, if he was a townie
- hasn't actually posted any reads other than that he thinks clarity isn't scum because of the pm thing.
but yeah okay i'm glad you finally found the things that I did d2 that everyone else has been calling me scum for all day.
On August 16 2013 04:44 Acrofales wrote:
Active when pressured
Then on D2 when he is no longer lord, and just as people are starting to think seriously of shooting him dead at night, he comes in to save his ass with the case on Risen.
His reason for not wanting to be lord is fucking phoney as hell: he wanted to reclaim his townie status, but did absolutely NOTHING towards that. Resulting in him basically disqualifying himself from the lord position, where he would not be able to lurk as much.
um, my reasoning for not wanting to be lord again was that i would not be active. vivax already had voted for me i think, it would have been easy to be lord if i wanted it.On August 16 2013 04:44 Acrofales wrote:Most of this has already been discussed, so I'll leave it at this.
The Yamato connectionYamato on SnB: Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 05:51 yamato77 wrote:
Most of SNB's contribution to the game consists of making a big deal out of some rolename controversy within his own house on N0. Aside from complaining that Clarity unwittingly ruined some sort of plan (lolwhatever), there's almost nothing of substance in his filter aside from a townread on Dandel (like that means anything).
His activity also fits in with his scum meta-activity as evidenced by the same sort of lurky and somewhat disinterested play he exhibited in Sicilian. He's set himself up so that he is voting for who his house wants to vote for, conveniently absolving himself of any true scumhunting in-thread. Neither of these seem like sincere efforts to push a lynch on SnB, and particularly the second one is complete nonsense: half a meta read because it IGNORES the fact that SnB's latest town games have been lurky sacks of uselessness as well. He was endgamed and ignored by scum in NWM, and modkilled for inactivity in PTP. Hardly a shining record to contrast with his lurky inactive scumgame. This read was easily discredited, but notice that SnB has no real interaction with yamato, despite SnB being yamato's main scumread. He just ignores it, because he knows yamato will never push the read.
yeah except that yamato was setting up the same things that you're arguing now. i'm pretty sure he would have pushed the read if he didn't decide to claim scum.
On August 16 2013 04:44 Acrofales wrote:What we do have, is this: Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 06:04 strongandbig wrote:On August 10 2013 05:58 yamato77 wrote:On August 10 2013 05:55 Acrofales wrote:On August 10 2013 05:51 yamato77 wrote:
Most of SNB's contribution to the game consists of making a big deal out of some rolename controversy within his own house on N0. Aside from complaining that Clarity unwittingly ruined some sort of plan (lolwhatever), there's almost nothing of substance in his filter aside from a townread on Dandel (like that means anything).
His activity also fits in with his scum meta-activity as evidenced by the same sort of lurky and somewhat disinterested play he exhibited in Sicilian. He's set himself up so that he is voting for who his house wants to vote for, conveniently absolving himself of any true scumhunting in-thread. In a previous encounter, a jousting match at Castle PTP, he was largely unavailable and never contributed anything of value, yet was town. Not to say that I encourage that behaviour, but I'm not sure it's sufficient for murdering him. So how do you advise we treat the SnB situation, then, Acro? Let him lurk into LYLO? It's not like he's an incompetent town player. If he's town, he's good enough to show it. idiot i'm busier today than i was yesterday. that doesn't mean im lurking. i just coutned, i have sent 123 PMs this game. so fuck you saying i'm scum for inactivity. also you should know better than this. my activity is just as bad when i'm town as it is when i'm scum. if not worse. you are making up things to suit your agenda and i woudl be down to lynch or vig you. 2 minutes later comes the test balloon of lynching me for roleplaying, and another 5 minutes later his vote is on Onegu with NO explanation worth speaking of (except, he's lurking). What happened to this will to lynch Yamato? It vanished in thin air... in about 5 minutes flat.
yeah i was about as serious about killing yamato there as i was about killing you for roleplaying (ie not at all). both of those were me being pissed at annoying people - yamato for his stupid activity read (which even you admit is a bad reason to be calling me scum), and you for playing in character and making it harder to actually read you.
when i actually want to kill someone, i either vote them (ie onegu) or i write a big-ass case on them and yell at a bunch of people if i can't vote for them (ie risen and vivax. also johnnywup now). if i make a one-line post saying "hey let's kill this guy" or "you're being stupid we should kill you" there's no way a reasonable person would take that as a serious scumread from me. maybe that's how you or kushmasta give the thread your scumreads, but mine have some reasoning behind them.
On August 16 2013 04:44 Acrofales wrote:
On D2 you'd think he'd have something to say about the red check on Yamato when he was so happy to report he had caught up on the thread, but no. He spouted off some nothingness that said very little in very many words. Avoid the contaminated scumbuddy like the plague!
are you retarded? after i already told you why i didn't comment on the useless things? what would the purpose have been in commenting on the red check, we were lynching yamato for sure.
On August 16 2013 04:44 Acrofales wrote:
@all lords: please lynch.
this case is the worst one on me yet. it is a combination of misunderstandings and half-truths
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On August 16 2013 06:10 Xatalos wrote:
I'm very glad we chose Vivax over snb. Although could snb also be scum? I don't think anyone even opposed his lynch? Or did someone? Feels a bit weird to have 2 scum as the choices for today though. If Vivax is some other anti-town role, not so much though.
Now I'm mostly interested to hear what Risen and Sharrant have to say about the kill list. And pick times as well.
i opposed my lynch
no one else really did
although the argument could be made that the "lynch vivax" movement showed up because my scum teammates decided to push it to save me, so i don't think you can conclude anything from the "opposing my lynch" argument. it's impossible for anyone except scum to know whether people decided honestly to lynch vivax instead of me (because vivax is antitown and I am not) or if it was a calculated move by the scum team.
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lol why am i a lynch candidate if vivax flips red? you mean if he flips black right?
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On August 16 2013 06:42 kushm4sta wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 04:44 Acrofales wrote:Fuck it. I've reread strongandbig's filter and I think he's scum. Name claimingLets start with the whole Clarity thing. I didn't like how it got blown up into a giant problem, but didn't really think much of it. However, rereading it seems somewhat scummy to nameclaim like that. Scum (at least some of them) have townie names, as evidenced by Yamato flipping Doran Martell. If, at the start of the game, you can gain some town credit by nameclaiming, this seems like a pretty good idea. If scum have some kind of KP that relies on nameclaiming, then it makes it a fucking excellent idea. This was the reason I was a bit suspicious of johnnywup at the start of the game. Nameclaiming is simply not a townie thing to do when you have zero knowledge about the setup. He subsequently made a big stink about how Clarity sent the message on to Oatsmaster, and I found Oats' behaviour in the whole ordeal really fucking scummy, so forgot about SnB's nameclaim starting the whole thing off. But I want some answers: SnB: why did you ignore all the risks of nameclaiming if you're town. Johnnywup, when I pressed him, claimed ignorance. You, however, are not a newbie and have played in at least 2 games I can think of where nameclaiming could get you killed (and in fact, in CT you had the very role to kill nameclaimers unless I am mistaking things). Additionally you claim it's a townie thing to do and should get you elected. You KNOW this is false. Why the lies?
Worthless reads as a lordAs a lord, we get this: On August 10 2013 01:20 strongandbig wrote:
Hey guys
On phone today so I'll be less active in pms than I was for the past several days.
I want my house to pm me though and explain who they want me to vote for and why.
Currently I'm not liking clarity as a lynch target anymore. I also don't want to lynch oatsmaster. It looks like the sol case is winding down a bit but I will retread those parts before the lynch.
More later Distancing himself from his own vote. On August 10 2013 06:06 strongandbig wrote:
i also wouldn't mind lynching acro for playing in character. Test balloon: lets see if we can get a decent town player lynched on a ridiculous pretext. If people wagon, then awesome, otherwise no harm no foul. Then his vote ends up on Onegu: On August 10 2013 06:13 strongandbig wrote:
Right now I think I want to lynch onegu the most. I thought the pressure on him at the start was for a bad reason, but he didn't really do anything at all in the way of scumhunting when the pressure was taken off of him.
So ##vote: onegu This is one of the shoddiest votes I have ever seen, especially as the earlier posts were him actually defending Onegu: On August 09 2013 00:24 strongandbig wrote:On August 09 2013 00:06 raynpelikoneet wrote:
lol Oberyn, did you even read my post?
Onegu is giving yamato town credit from an action he considers to be anti-town.. not a huge problem, his logic makes sense. he's saying it's poor play for a townie to take that action, but it doesn't make sense for a scum member to take it so it's more likely coming from a bad townie than from scum. So what made Onegu a worse lurker than jrkirby, FirmTofu, gumshoe, or really any of the other useless lurkers. Nothing. Onegu was, in fact, a less useless lurker. But he needed to toss his vote without letting it be accountable at all.
Active when pressuredThen on D2 when he is no longer lord, and just as people are starting to think seriously of shooting him dead at night, he comes in to save his ass with the case on Risen. His reason for not wanting to be lord is fucking phoney as hell: he wanted to reclaim his townie status, but did absolutely NOTHING towards that. Resulting in him basically disqualifying himself from the lord position, where he would not be able to lurk as much. Most of this has already been discussed, so I'll leave it at this.
The Yamato connectionYamato on SnB: On August 10 2013 04:57 yamato77 wrote:Are we lynching this guy? We totally should. On August 10 2013 05:51 yamato77 wrote:
Most of SNB's contribution to the game consists of making a big deal out of some rolename controversy within his own house on N0. Aside from complaining that Clarity unwittingly ruined some sort of plan (lolwhatever), there's almost nothing of substance in his filter aside from a townread on Dandel (like that means anything).
His activity also fits in with his scum meta-activity as evidenced by the same sort of lurky and somewhat disinterested play he exhibited in Sicilian. He's set himself up so that he is voting for who his house wants to vote for, conveniently absolving himself of any true scumhunting in-thread. Neither of these seem like sincere efforts to push a lynch on SnB, and particularly the second one is complete nonsense: half a meta read because it IGNORES the fact that SnB's latest town games have been lurky sacks of uselessness as well. He was endgamed and ignored by scum in NWM, and modkilled for inactivity in PTP. Hardly a shining record to contrast with his lurky inactive scumgame. This read was easily discredited, but notice that SnB has no real interaction with yamato, despite SnB being yamato's main scumread. He just ignores it, because he knows yamato will never push the read. What we do have, is this: On August 10 2013 06:04 strongandbig wrote:On August 10 2013 05:58 yamato77 wrote:On August 10 2013 05:55 Acrofales wrote:On August 10 2013 05:51 yamato77 wrote:
Most of SNB's contribution to the game consists of making a big deal out of some rolename controversy within his own house on N0. Aside from complaining that Clarity unwittingly ruined some sort of plan (lolwhatever), there's almost nothing of substance in his filter aside from a townread on Dandel (like that means anything).
His activity also fits in with his scum meta-activity as evidenced by the same sort of lurky and somewhat disinterested play he exhibited in Sicilian. He's set himself up so that he is voting for who his house wants to vote for, conveniently absolving himself of any true scumhunting in-thread. In a previous encounter, a jousting match at Castle PTP, he was largely unavailable and never contributed anything of value, yet was town. Not to say that I encourage that behaviour, but I'm not sure it's sufficient for murdering him. So how do you advise we treat the SnB situation, then, Acro? Let him lurk into LYLO? It's not like he's an incompetent town player. If he's town, he's good enough to show it. idiot i'm busier today than i was yesterday. that doesn't mean im lurking. i just coutned, i have sent 123 PMs this game. so fuck you saying i'm scum for inactivity. also you should know better than this. my activity is just as bad when i'm town as it is when i'm scum. if not worse. you are making up things to suit your agenda and i woudl be down to lynch or vig you. 2 minutes later comes the test balloon of lynching me for roleplaying, and another 5 minutes later his vote is on Onegu with NO explanation worth speaking of (except, he's lurking). What happened to this will to lynch Yamato? It vanished in thin air... in about 5 minutes flat. On D2 you'd think he'd have something to say about the red check on Yamato when he was so happy to report he had caught up on the thread, but no. He spouted off some nothingness that said very little in very many words. Avoid the contaminated scumbuddy like the plague!
@all lords: please lynch. JUST CATCHING up on th ethread but i think this case is 1bazillion percent retarded
thanks for the vote of confidence kush
you guys heard it here first if kush flips scum im confirmed town trololol
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On August 16 2013 07:34 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 06:47 Xatalos wrote:
OK, it's time for pure gut reads. The bolded players I think are likely town. Please don't lynch/shoot any of them unless some good reason appears later on. The rest should be purged. I'm somewhat unsure about Grackaroni, rayn, Mocsta and Sharrant, but I think they're all more likely town than scum at the moment.
Dandel Ion
Onegu
Sharrant
s0lstice
Vivax
Chromatically
Clarity_nl
Grackaroni
raynpelikoneet
Koshi
johnnywup
Mocsta
strongandbig
Acrofoles
kushm4sta
Risen This post is wrong. It's just so wrong for legitimate reasons not even some far out theory I'm coming up with. Why does a townie make a post calling out his town reads for mafia to look at and shoot?
pretend he'd made the same post but with the bolds removed and the non-bolds put in red
here like this
On August 16 2013 06:47 Xatalos wrote:
OK, it's time for pure gut reads. The bolded players I think are likely town. Please don't lynch/shoot any of them unless some good reason appears later on. The rest should be purged. I'm somewhat unsure about Grackaroni, rayn, Mocsta and Sharrant, but I think they're all more likely town than scum at the moment.
Dandel Ion
Onegu
Sharrant
s0lstice
Vivax
Chromatically
Clarity_nl
Grackaroni
raynpelikoneet
Koshi
johnnywup
Mocsta
strongandbig
Acrofoles
kushm4sta
Risen
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On August 16 2013 07:44 johnnywup wrote:
S&B his point still stands
no it doesnt
it was a list of like five scum reads.
okay then scum can shoot the other twenty people in the game OMG THEY KNOW HIS TOWN READS!!
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On August 16 2013 07:59 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 07:42 strongandbig wrote:On August 16 2013 07:34 Risen wrote:On August 16 2013 06:47 Xatalos wrote:
OK, it's time for pure gut reads. The bolded players I think are likely town. Please don't lynch/shoot any of them unless some good reason appears later on. The rest should be purged. I'm somewhat unsure about Grackaroni, rayn, Mocsta and Sharrant, but I think they're all more likely town than scum at the moment.
Dandel Ion
Onegu
Sharrant
s0lstice
Vivax
Chromatically
Clarity_nl
Grackaroni
raynpelikoneet
Koshi
johnnywup
Mocsta
strongandbig
Acrofoles
kushm4sta
Risen This post is wrong. It's just so wrong for legitimate reasons not even some far out theory I'm coming up with. Why does a townie make a post calling out his town reads for mafia to look at and shoot? pretend he'd made the same post but with the bolds removed and the non-bolds put in red here like this On August 16 2013 06:47 Xatalos wrote:
OK, it's time for pure gut reads. The bolded players I think are likely town. Please don't lynch/shoot any of them unless some good reason appears later on. The rest should be purged. I'm somewhat unsure about Grackaroni, rayn, Mocsta and Sharrant, but I think they're all more likely town than scum at the moment.
Dandel Ion
Onegu
Sharrant
s0lstice
Vivax
Chromatically
Clarity_nl
Grackaroni
raynpelikoneet
Koshi
johnnywup
Mocsta
strongandbig
Acrofoles
kushm4sta
Risen If he had done that as him pointing out who he thought scum team was it would be different. There's a huge difference between casting suspicion on people and calling people town.
He called all but five people town. Oh no. Scum knows the 20 least suspicious people in town now they can target their night kills. Seriously this is a stupid argument.
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Also list posts are not townie. Don't tell people to look town by making a list post. Tell them to do it by making cases. Real cases are way harder for scum to fake than lost posts are.
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On August 16 2013 08:08 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 08:02 strongandbig wrote:On August 16 2013 07:59 Risen wrote:On August 16 2013 07:42 strongandbig wrote:On August 16 2013 07:34 Risen wrote:On August 16 2013 06:47 Xatalos wrote:
OK, it's time for pure gut reads. The bolded players I think are likely town. Please don't lynch/shoot any of them unless some good reason appears later on. The rest should be purged. I'm somewhat unsure about Grackaroni, rayn, Mocsta and Sharrant, but I think they're all more likely town than scum at the moment.
Dandel Ion
Onegu
Sharrant
s0lstice
Vivax
Chromatically
Clarity_nl
Grackaroni
raynpelikoneet
Koshi
johnnywup
Mocsta
strongandbig
Acrofoles
kushm4sta
Risen This post is wrong. It's just so wrong for legitimate reasons not even some far out theory I'm coming up with. Why does a townie make a post calling out his town reads for mafia to look at and shoot? pretend he'd made the same post but with the bolds removed and the non-bolds put in red here like this On August 16 2013 06:47 Xatalos wrote:
OK, it's time for pure gut reads. The bolded players I think are likely town. Please don't lynch/shoot any of them unless some good reason appears later on. The rest should be purged. I'm somewhat unsure about Grackaroni, rayn, Mocsta and Sharrant, but I think they're all more likely town than scum at the moment.
Dandel Ion
Onegu
Sharrant
s0lstice
Vivax
Chromatically
Clarity_nl
Grackaroni
raynpelikoneet
Koshi
johnnywup
Mocsta
strongandbig
Acrofoles
kushm4sta
Risen If he had done that as him pointing out who he thought scum team was it would be different. There's a huge difference between casting suspicion on people and calling people town. He called all but five people town. Oh no. Scum knows the 20 least suspicious people in town now they can target their night kills. Seriously this is a stupid argument. Tbh I don't know how to refute this. I just know giving town reads is not something town-aligned people should do. Give scum reads, and your reasons for thinking they're scum, and that's it. That's what kush and johnny should do as well.
I agree with the last part
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On August 17 2013 16:14 Clarity_nl wrote:
redcheck on mocsta... why have scum let sharrant live?
To be fair, town has been kinda steamrolling so they have to make a play I guess.. n4 three of us will likely die, and it'll be the active three.... So, solving this game, or getting close to solving this game today would be great.
If I had to guess, snb is not claiming scum and more likely forgot to vote cause he was flustered cause he messed up and posted a pm to me in thread instead. That said.... I was hoping that would mean I got 1 out of 1 votes and therefore elected...
I'll have to ask this to the hosts and see if someone doesn't a vote, what a majority means.
This is what happened. I meant to vote clarity, but that fuckup happened and I forgot. I don't know why I am not modkilled for not voting except that the mods never replied to my question in thread about modkills so maybe they are not doing that.
I have no way of proving what I'm saying, you guys have to make up your minds based on the rest of the game and what you rhink the scum motivation is for this, so I'm just not gonna keep talking about it. If you all want to lynch me or lord-KP me for it I've brought it on myself.
I even got a reminder pm from the hosts at midnight, after I had gone to bed... Seriously fuck me sideways this game. I finally start giving a shit and vivax flips scum rb and then this shit happens...
Anyway there are still about ten pages of thread I haven't read but I wanted to put this out there before I hit the treadmill so that people can get their responses into the thread before I start responding in earnest.
I plan on continuing to push johnnywup today. I think there's a clear difference between the way he played in nuclear winter and this game, he was under early pressure both times but his response this time is way more scummy than that time and the pressure is different. I was going to push him for the lynch but we kind of have to resolve this mocsta-sharrant red check situation ASAP, so it might be better for johnnywup to be The Lord KP target tonight. If we could get some idea of whether the lords can kill him tonight it would be good. Also if any lords don't think he is the right target I want to argue with them.
As for mocsta sharrant, they both look kind of bad - mocsta mostly because jrkirby's was so scummy, sharrant I liked his response to risers case but he really has done so little else that it's hard to get a town read on him - so I don't want to commit to which one to lynch first until I read their filters, then I will give you my opinion. My gut feeling arm is to lunch mocsta first, though - sharrant was right about Yamato, plus the scum rb just died so it makes sense that he could get a check off. But I want to read both filters before I commit.
Anyway I apologize to the town and the hosts for ducking up majorly this time, and especially to clarity. Johnywup is scum. Peace~
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Okay I just saw the last page of the thread, we should absolutely lynch one or the other of johnnywup or mocsta unless we have more than just the five lord KP (sorry), they both need to die ASAP and we can't count on that if we use lord KP.
Unless someone claimed something in the previous nine pages which gives us more KP to work with or we get a big case that everyone is persuaded by.
Okay gym now trek.
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On August 18 2013 00:13 Xatalos wrote:
This might have actually been the most pro-town action for him I guess? Saving us some KP and a lynch.
Strategic self-modkill is right up there with ubsanctuoned editing of posts on the "cheating" list.
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If hosts modkill mocsta and remove the lynch for today can we continue the game or is it just tainted now because of him
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Cause then it's just like we lynched him
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On August 18 2013 01:07 Dandel Ion wrote:
dunno, i asked to end this game in a draw.
if that doesn't happen, I'll suggest we withhold the lord kp tonight. cuz that's what we would've used.
That doesn't work cause scum might lie about The Lord KP.
And I put too much effort into not getting lunched for this game to end in a draw.
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I'm having trouble getting back into the game when we don't know how the hosts are gonna resolve this mocsta situation.
Let me say what I said to Clarity about Risen. I don't want to lynch him today.
re: risen: he was the second actual vote onto vivax, I believe, at a point when I was still strongly leading in votes. He could have kept his vote on Sharrant and hoped the vivax momentum would not build and I would still be the inertia candidate. I would have called him scum for that but imo he was not getting nearly as much heat as he deserved for his tunnel.
For him to actually switch his vote back onto me would have been more difficult, since he'd already unvoted me. Vivax was close to giving up at that point, although I think Risen's vote came before his lolclaim, so a bus is not completely out of the question.
I still think Risen's filter looks scummy as fuck, especially day 1 and the entire sharrant tunnel where he ignored sharrant's answers to his question. but this vote switch is a pretty big deal, so i'm willing to officially move my read on risen from "certain scum" to "null, don't want to lynch right now".
I'm not willing to give him a townread yet just for one vote, when I still really dislike his filter in general, but it's enough to move my read significantly. Unless I find a stronger scumread tonight, I think I will be pushing for a johnnywup lynch tomorrow.
I want to kill jwup today.
On August 18 2013 00:19 Sharrant wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 00:16 s0Lstice wrote:
well this is very interesting..
i have a strong urge to kill sharrant Do tell. And I'm saying it again, I'm pretty sure Johnny is town.
why. seriously.
if you have a green check on him, there's no reason not to say it now. although you can't have a green check on account of both of your alignment checks have been red and you say you alternate between alignment and hp checks.
anything short of that and i'm going to demand very detailed reasons for it.
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On August 18 2013 04:44 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 04:36 Risen wrote:
So we're just going to believe DI's house check and take it as gospel or did I miss the part where another house confirmed. Why would DI lie?
if he's scum
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put it this way, if sharrant doesn't die tonight then there's even stronger reason to lynch him tomorrow. But if he is telling the truth and mocsta was framed (I guess this is the scenario we're looking at if DI is telling the truth?) then we can lord kp or lynch him tomorrow. For now, we should be looking elsewhere.
Are we fairly certain we can kill johnnywup tonight? Sharrant afaik never answered me or explained his townread at all. If we aren't fairly certain we can kill him tonight with lord kp, then we should be lynching him.
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On August 18 2013 04:47 Dandel Ion wrote:to answer this question, because I couldn't find a coherent argument in it's favor, I've googled "risen logic" and extracted the visual representation of it. ![[image loading]](http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ZEs_gcamX9w/T5lvtwcONDI/AAAAAAAAU3k/z4K65O-TqzY/s400/resurrectiondionysiou.jpg) I am unsure what this means.
that just looks like a medieval triptych.
When i google image search "risen logic" this is the third result (honestly). humorously, the link goes to the previous game of thrones mafia game.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/il7Yt.jpg)
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On August 18 2013 04:52 Dandel Ion wrote:
oh we 100% can't kill johnny
why are we not lynching him then
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On August 18 2013 05:26 johnnywup wrote:
How did gumshoe and kush force town to shoot them? Is that what you're going to say about me after I flip?
And good, I want rayn dead.
not if you flip scum. which i believe you will, and no one but you seems to disagree. so why is it so hard to make you dead?
seriously guys we need to be killing our top scum reads, as fast as possible. none of this shitty letting scum stick around, use their possible roles, and vote for shitty candidates. we should be killing johnnywup.
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On August 18 2013 19:10 Clarity_nl wrote:I guess I'm up for lynching johnny but it's for the wrong reasons. I have no idea if he's scum or town, he's completely null and useless. Don't want him around at lylo. I kinda wanna lynch grack just because of this post Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 07:00 Grackaroni wrote:
Shits going down. I'm content to lynch Johnnywup since we won't even get him in lord shots tonight and he has the best chance of anyone to flip scum.
I did use my pm's, I talked a whole bunch with Mocsta to try to get a better read on him because I wasn't confident he would flip scum when everybody else was throwing him to the wolves. I also talked a bit to Rayn and he seemed to be genuinely convinced Mocsta was scum so I don't think he is the best lynch for today,
##Vote: Johnnywup I dunno how johnny has "the best chance of flipping scum" but that's a silly statement that means nothing. I can't tell if this post is scum just consolidating on a townie without much thought, or a bus because johnny is a lost cause, however I do know that a townie does not post this. Apparently he was talking to mocsta in pms, when everyone else wanted to kill him, because he wasn't confident in the lynch. Was anyone aware of this? I sure as hell wasn't. I don't understand why, as a townie, you would INSTEAD of saying in the thread "hey guys, I'm not too confident in this lynch/shot" you go talk to the guy who is up for getting lynched/shot?? Clearly you didn't show the fact that you doubt he's scum with him, because he fucking gave up on the game. This is a classic scumpost. Consolidate without reasons. Try to get towncred by opposing a lynch/shot on a townie (after his flip, might I add) and give out a random townread (on rayn)
Do you disagree with my case on jwup? I think the point about the difference in the way he defended himself in this game versus nwm is good, plus the rest of it. If you disagree I would like to hear why
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Acro why. Answer my case/ explain yourself.
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Once again, I lead the votes but don't get lynched! SUCCESS!
Yeah, whatever. Mocsta should get a strong ban. "Getting modkilled so town doesn't mislynch" is exactly defined as cheating in the OP. it doesn't matter that he claims to not have known about it, it's in the op of literally every game and is a core part of the rules.
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I actually agree with kush. The game should take an hour to play per day, no longer. If you're demanding people spend more than 1 hour of full, attentive play, you're gonna kill your game anyway by limiting the player pool.
We need more post count limit games.
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No, I don't. When I'm catching up (like after I was gone for the weekend in this game) I'm perfectly willing to spend more than an blue reading and posting about the game to make it up.
But if it's taking people more than an hour on a regular day just to stay current, then you have a problem.
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On August 21 2013 23:54 Clarity_nl wrote:
I'm just baffled that kush just gets to say that he didn't even read some of the game and be fine, and everyone else is fine too. I guess he's like that dull pain in the back of your head that you just kinda zone out after a while.
and just like a headache I just wanna shut the blinds and crawl into bed and wait until it's gone.
people aren't, like, fine with it. it's kush. it's why no one listens to him.
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I don't think a one game ban is appropriate. This is abuse of the rules to help your team, and it's explicitly listed as one of the most serious ways that one can cheat in this game. I think the punishment for this needs to be more serious than the punishment for getting modkilled for missing a vote or ragequitting in a normal way.
Like, this wasn't just a modkill or ragequit, it was an attempt to influence the game with a forced modkill.
I think a three-game ban is more appropriate than a one-game. This should include the one that mocsta already has decided not to participate in, so two more games.
But some rules are much more serious than others, and those rules need to be enforced more strongly than everyday infractions.
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Permaban is obviously too extreme. Maybe a two-game ban rather than three.
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On August 22 2013 23:56 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2013 23:52 Dandel Ion wrote:
help your team?
I'll remind you that his modkill made the votes from town 3-2 scum to 2-2, essentially fucking any chance to ever lynch scum. Yep, but the intention was there, which is what matters in these situations. edit: let me clarify I guess. Mocsta was almost certainly either going to be lynched or shot. He was aware of this and from my perspective (although mocsta has not said this as far as I'm aware) he got himself modkilled because he thought it might benefit town. Yes, it turns out it removed town's majority in votes that cycle but mocsta did not know this at the time, I assume he thought he was making it possible for town to lynch/shoot scum instead of him. That's not to say I agree that he needs more than a 1 game ban, not sure what I think about this yet, but it's worth discussing I realize you were just co-hosting marv, but could you explain why the hosts have not really commented on this situation yet? Or if any other hosts are around, ofcourse. Show nested quote +On August 22 2013 23:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I would really like if GoT hosts brought up the Mocsta issue here. Purposely getting yourself modkilled is ruining the game for everyone. At least that's how i feel. That's the worst thing you can do. Play against your wincon and ruin the game for people. I also remember myself getting a 5 game ban for the same thing. Why are different people treated differently in these kind of situations?
He actually did say this was his reasoning for getting modkilled.
On August 20 2013 15:33 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 15:18 DrParnassus wrote:
moc, yours was malicious. i remember reading that you've never been mislynched.... ragequitting at a critical time for town is not the ideal way to uphold that statistic It may have been taken that way. But it was actually for town to move on and get a successful lynch. I didn't predict town would react that way Either way. I genuinely didn't know it was cheating. If I did. I certainly wouldn't have quit. So I do apologise on those grounds.
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but it's in every single OP and he's been playing here for a while, I don't think that makes it okay.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/51/Bill_Frist_Official_Photo_2013.jpg/479px-Bill_Frist_Official_Photo_2013.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/78/Conner-prairie-pottery-rack.jpg/561px-Conner-prairie-pottery-rack.jpg)
