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On August 15 2013 04:47 Grackaroni wrote:What stood out to me first is his interactions with Yamato. Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 06:04 strongandbig wrote:On August 10 2013 05:58 yamato77 wrote:On August 10 2013 05:55 Acrofales wrote:On August 10 2013 05:51 yamato77 wrote:
Most of SNB's contribution to the game consists of making a big deal out of some rolename controversy within his own house on N0. Aside from complaining that Clarity unwittingly ruined some sort of plan (lolwhatever), there's almost nothing of substance in his filter aside from a townread on Dandel (like that means anything).
His activity also fits in with his scum meta-activity as evidenced by the same sort of lurky and somewhat disinterested play he exhibited in Sicilian. He's set himself up so that he is voting for who his house wants to vote for, conveniently absolving himself of any true scumhunting in-thread. In a previous encounter, a jousting match at Castle PTP, he was largely unavailable and never contributed anything of value, yet was town. Not to say that I encourage that behaviour, but I'm not sure it's sufficient for murdering him. So how do you advise we treat the SnB situation, then, Acro? Let him lurk into LYLO? It's not like he's an incompetent town player. If he's town, he's good enough to show it. idiot i'm busier today than i was yesterday. that doesn't mean im lurking. i just coutned, i have sent 123 PMs this game. so fuck you saying i'm scum for inactivity. also you should know better than this. my activity is just as bad when i'm town as it is when i'm scum. if not worse. you are making up things to suit your agenda and i woudl be down to lynch or vig you. Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 06:08 strongandbig wrote:On August 10 2013 06:07 yamato77 wrote:On August 10 2013 06:04 strongandbig wrote:On August 10 2013 05:58 yamato77 wrote:On August 10 2013 05:55 Acrofales wrote:On August 10 2013 05:51 yamato77 wrote:
Most of SNB's contribution to the game consists of making a big deal out of some rolename controversy within his own house on N0. Aside from complaining that Clarity unwittingly ruined some sort of plan (lolwhatever), there's almost nothing of substance in his filter aside from a townread on Dandel (like that means anything).
His activity also fits in with his scum meta-activity as evidenced by the same sort of lurky and somewhat disinterested play he exhibited in Sicilian. He's set himself up so that he is voting for who his house wants to vote for, conveniently absolving himself of any true scumhunting in-thread. In a previous encounter, a jousting match at Castle PTP, he was largely unavailable and never contributed anything of value, yet was town. Not to say that I encourage that behaviour, but I'm not sure it's sufficient for murdering him. So how do you advise we treat the SnB situation, then, Acro? Let him lurk into LYLO? It's not like he's an incompetent town player. If he's town, he's good enough to show it. idiot i'm busier today than i was yesterday. that doesn't mean im lurking. i just coutned, i have sent 123 PMs this game. so fuck you saying i'm scum for inactivity. also you should know better than this. my activity is just as bad when i'm town as it is when i'm scum. if not worse. you are making up things to suit your agenda and i woudl be down to lynch or vig you. So "I do this as town, too!' is your only defense? Last time I heard that, a SCUM PLAYER was getting lynched D1 in Catch 22. no you fucker my defense is that i have been way, way more active than many people in this game, including you. He gives out these strong accusations of Yamato trying to make things up to suit his agenda, and see that Yamato has done nothing this game but fight with Oats over dumb stuff at the start of the game and not scum hun, Then he plants his vote on Onegu with weak reasoning. Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 06:13 strongandbig wrote:
Right now I think I want to lynch onegu the most. I thought the pressure on him at the start was for a bad reason, but he didn't really do anything at all in the way of scumhunting when the pressure was taken off of him.
So ##vote: onegu At this point of the game he should have a better case for Yamato being scum, (not scumhunting, shitting up the thread, having an agenda) and chooses to ignore it and not pressure Yamato further. Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 01:57 strongandbig wrote:On August 13 2013 01:41 Acrofales wrote:On August 13 2013 01:26 strongandbig wrote:
okay i'm back after reading the previous ~45 pages of thread.
i've been camping with my girlfriend for the weekend. the limited activity was because (1) bad cell reception and more importantly (2) lack of interest in mafia when camping with my girlfriend.
I see that people are calling me scum because my activity dropped off, all i'll say to them for now is that if you think occasional inactivity is something I only show in scum games then you're either scum or lazy as fuck.
I want to talk specifically to what vivax said about my pms during night 1. It's true that I was very malleable as regards where to send the KP. The plan from iamperfection and rayn was made while I was gone, and I hadn't read the thread at that point. I sent in the KP after reading gumshoe's filter and deciding that he was a good enough choice for a lurker shot, and I sent it as soon as I finished reading the thread because I was something like half an hour late for my assigned time slot, and didn't want to fuck up their plan for sending in the KP sequentially.
But anyway, it seems the reason most people have been calling me scum isn't for anything I did, but for stopping paying attention to the game over the weekend. So the best way to shut that down is to start caring/paying attention, no? Yet another paragon of useful contribution. After reading 45 pages you must have something to say about the CONTENT of those pages, no? The Redwyne fleet is ready to sail north and stab you in the face. typing bro i see no reason to talk abotu the yamato situation since he claimed scum and we're killing him. cool that sharrant chose a good target. i thought some about shooting yamato but since i didnt do it and didn't actually push him it doesn't matter. if you're trying to decide whether i'm scum, make sure you think a little bit about his push on me, also, and explain how we could be teammates before you shoot me. i mean obviously its possible that he was trying to bus me, but i would argue scum would be unlikely to bus their teammate who won a lordship and then was not going to be active enough to defend himself until after a full round of vig shots. i see no real reason to talk about the oberyn fakeclaim situation either. actually, here's something - i would say that the scum roleblocker may not have claimed because he knew oberyn and onegu were lying (either onegu or oberyn being scum in that case) but it's also possible that they were inactive. it seems unlikely that they would have called their bluff completely, given that jk is such a good fakeclaim for that scenario and that it was mentioned in the thread, but that can't be ruled out either. so i don't think we can be like "omg someone leaked the plan lynch into oberyn and onegu". That said, it does make them deserving of some extra scrutiny as compared to any random person in the game, i guess. so yeah there you go, a paragraph where i don't really say anything, happy? I thought this post was scummy, he comes in with this long post and says nothing besides, I didn't actually push Yamato but we were fighting with each other so we can't be scum together. Then adds in this last paragraph where he knows he's not adding anything and justifies it by adding in the last sentence. Aside from that yes, the activity hasn't been the best and he only pushes Risen for not having logical reads which doesn't seem to be alignment indicative for Risen.
I didn't really think yamato was scum at that point, I just thought he was being an asshole and I was getting pissed. Also I was already out of town at that point.
My reasoning for voting onegu was that he was the lynch candidate who I agreed with the cases against the most. I talked about those cases a bit but it's true that my reasoning was not explained in detail. I was out of town camping with my girlfriend and put in as much time as I felt like on my vote.
And you seriously are calling me scum for the fact that my post explaining why I wasn't talking doesn't say anything??? That's the whole point of that post! I had just been accused by acro for not contributing, during the time while I was typing my Risen case. I decided to be a bit snarky and explain in detail why I decided not to talk about some of the things that acro apparently thought I should have talked about.
AGAIN, ANYONE WHO WANTS TO KILL ME SHOULD READ YAMATO'S FILTER AND EXPLAIN WHY HE WAS PUSHING ME, HIS TEAMMATE, FOR INACTIVITY AND "NOT CARING" WHILE SUPPOSEDLY KNOWING THAT I WOULD BE GONE FOR SEVERAL DAYS AND UNABLE TO RESPOND.
Seriously, I can't believe you are making a yamato connection case to argue i'm scum.
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On August 15 2013 04:59 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 04:54 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 04:47 Grackaroni wrote:What stood out to me first is his interactions with Yamato. On August 10 2013 06:04 strongandbig wrote:On August 10 2013 05:58 yamato77 wrote:On August 10 2013 05:55 Acrofales wrote:On August 10 2013 05:51 yamato77 wrote:
Most of SNB's contribution to the game consists of making a big deal out of some rolename controversy within his own house on N0. Aside from complaining that Clarity unwittingly ruined some sort of plan (lolwhatever), there's almost nothing of substance in his filter aside from a townread on Dandel (like that means anything).
His activity also fits in with his scum meta-activity as evidenced by the same sort of lurky and somewhat disinterested play he exhibited in Sicilian. He's set himself up so that he is voting for who his house wants to vote for, conveniently absolving himself of any true scumhunting in-thread. In a previous encounter, a jousting match at Castle PTP, he was largely unavailable and never contributed anything of value, yet was town. Not to say that I encourage that behaviour, but I'm not sure it's sufficient for murdering him. So how do you advise we treat the SnB situation, then, Acro? Let him lurk into LYLO? It's not like he's an incompetent town player. If he's town, he's good enough to show it. idiot i'm busier today than i was yesterday. that doesn't mean im lurking. i just coutned, i have sent 123 PMs this game. so fuck you saying i'm scum for inactivity. also you should know better than this. my activity is just as bad when i'm town as it is when i'm scum. if not worse. you are making up things to suit your agenda and i woudl be down to lynch or vig you. On August 10 2013 06:08 strongandbig wrote:On August 10 2013 06:07 yamato77 wrote:On August 10 2013 06:04 strongandbig wrote:On August 10 2013 05:58 yamato77 wrote:On August 10 2013 05:55 Acrofales wrote:On August 10 2013 05:51 yamato77 wrote:
Most of SNB's contribution to the game consists of making a big deal out of some rolename controversy within his own house on N0. Aside from complaining that Clarity unwittingly ruined some sort of plan (lolwhatever), there's almost nothing of substance in his filter aside from a townread on Dandel (like that means anything).
His activity also fits in with his scum meta-activity as evidenced by the same sort of lurky and somewhat disinterested play he exhibited in Sicilian. He's set himself up so that he is voting for who his house wants to vote for, conveniently absolving himself of any true scumhunting in-thread. In a previous encounter, a jousting match at Castle PTP, he was largely unavailable and never contributed anything of value, yet was town. Not to say that I encourage that behaviour, but I'm not sure it's sufficient for murdering him. So how do you advise we treat the SnB situation, then, Acro? Let him lurk into LYLO? It's not like he's an incompetent town player. If he's town, he's good enough to show it. idiot i'm busier today than i was yesterday. that doesn't mean im lurking. i just coutned, i have sent 123 PMs this game. so fuck you saying i'm scum for inactivity. also you should know better than this. my activity is just as bad when i'm town as it is when i'm scum. if not worse. you are making up things to suit your agenda and i woudl be down to lynch or vig you. So "I do this as town, too!' is your only defense? Last time I heard that, a SCUM PLAYER was getting lynched D1 in Catch 22. no you fucker my defense is that i have been way, way more active than many people in this game, including you. He gives out these strong accusations of Yamato trying to make things up to suit his agenda, and see that Yamato has done nothing this game but fight with Oats over dumb stuff at the start of the game and not scum hun, Then he plants his vote on Onegu with weak reasoning. On August 10 2013 06:13 strongandbig wrote:
Right now I think I want to lynch onegu the most. I thought the pressure on him at the start was for a bad reason, but he didn't really do anything at all in the way of scumhunting when the pressure was taken off of him.
So ##vote: onegu At this point of the game he should have a better case for Yamato being scum, (not scumhunting, shitting up the thread, having an agenda) and chooses to ignore it and not pressure Yamato further. On August 13 2013 01:57 strongandbig wrote:On August 13 2013 01:41 Acrofales wrote:On August 13 2013 01:26 strongandbig wrote:
okay i'm back after reading the previous ~45 pages of thread.
i've been camping with my girlfriend for the weekend. the limited activity was because (1) bad cell reception and more importantly (2) lack of interest in mafia when camping with my girlfriend.
I see that people are calling me scum because my activity dropped off, all i'll say to them for now is that if you think occasional inactivity is something I only show in scum games then you're either scum or lazy as fuck.
I want to talk specifically to what vivax said about my pms during night 1. It's true that I was very malleable as regards where to send the KP. The plan from iamperfection and rayn was made while I was gone, and I hadn't read the thread at that point. I sent in the KP after reading gumshoe's filter and deciding that he was a good enough choice for a lurker shot, and I sent it as soon as I finished reading the thread because I was something like half an hour late for my assigned time slot, and didn't want to fuck up their plan for sending in the KP sequentially.
But anyway, it seems the reason most people have been calling me scum isn't for anything I did, but for stopping paying attention to the game over the weekend. So the best way to shut that down is to start caring/paying attention, no? Yet another paragon of useful contribution. After reading 45 pages you must have something to say about the CONTENT of those pages, no? The Redwyne fleet is ready to sail north and stab you in the face. typing bro i see no reason to talk abotu the yamato situation since he claimed scum and we're killing him. cool that sharrant chose a good target. i thought some about shooting yamato but since i didnt do it and didn't actually push him it doesn't matter. if you're trying to decide whether i'm scum, make sure you think a little bit about his push on me, also, and explain how we could be teammates before you shoot me. i mean obviously its possible that he was trying to bus me, but i would argue scum would be unlikely to bus their teammate who won a lordship and then was not going to be active enough to defend himself until after a full round of vig shots. i see no real reason to talk about the oberyn fakeclaim situation either. actually, here's something - i would say that the scum roleblocker may not have claimed because he knew oberyn and onegu were lying (either onegu or oberyn being scum in that case) but it's also possible that they were inactive. it seems unlikely that they would have called their bluff completely, given that jk is such a good fakeclaim for that scenario and that it was mentioned in the thread, but that can't be ruled out either. so i don't think we can be like "omg someone leaked the plan lynch into oberyn and onegu". That said, it does make them deserving of some extra scrutiny as compared to any random person in the game, i guess. so yeah there you go, a paragraph where i don't really say anything, happy? I thought this post was scummy, he comes in with this long post and says nothing besides, I didn't actually push Yamato but we were fighting with each other so we can't be scum together. Then adds in this last paragraph where he knows he's not adding anything and justifies it by adding in the last sentence. Aside from that yes, the activity hasn't been the best and he only pushes Risen for not having logical reads which doesn't seem to be alignment indicative for Risen. I didn't really think yamato was scum at that point, I just thought he was being an asshole and I was getting pissed. Also I was already out of town at that point. My reasoning for voting onegu was that he was the lynch candidate who I agreed with the cases against the most. I talked about those cases a bit but it's true that my reasoning was not explained in detail. I was out of town camping with my girlfriend and put in as much time as I felt like on my vote. And you seriously are calling me scum for the fact that my post explaining why I wasn't talking doesn't say anything??? That's the whole point of that post! I had just been accused by acro for not contributing, during the time while I was typing my Risen case. I decided to be a bit snarky and explain in detail why I decided not to talk about some of the things that acro apparently thought I should have talked about. AGAIN, ANYONE WHO WANTS TO KILL ME SHOULD READ YAMATO'S FILTER AND EXPLAIN WHY HE WAS PUSHING ME, HIS TEAMMATE, FOR INACTIVITY AND "NOT CARING" WHILE SUPPOSEDLY KNOWING THAT I WOULD BE GONE FOR SEVERAL DAYS AND UNABLE TO RESPOND.Seriously, I can't believe you are making a yamato connection case to argue i'm scum. Not the first post explaining why you weren't talking. The post after that you made responding to Acro, when he asked you to contribute any of your thoughts.
yeah the one you quoted is the one i'm talking about
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On August 15 2013 05:04 Koshi wrote:
SnB. Same question that I asked you a million times in Sicilian.
Who else than you? You always just defend yourself and don't do anything else. In Sicilian you were blaming Vivax his tunnel on you. This time you are going to use the fact that you and Yamato can't be on the same scumteam... You flipped scum in Sicilian and all my townreads are on your ass atm. If I would have a vote I would vote you in an instant.
a townie's first duty is to not get lynched. defending yourself if you're going to get lynched is the most important thing.
i want to kill risen as i have made abundantly clear. i'm not satisfied at all with either of their answers. I think risen's day 1 shows his scum mindset and he hasn't gotten much better since then, he's spent the whole rest of the game tunneling sharrant and now he's voting me because i thought he had one good point in his case on sharrant but i still think he's scum.
i also still think vivax is probably scum but risen is still number one on my kill list atm.
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On August 15 2013 05:09 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 05:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 15 2013 04:54 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 04:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 15 2013 04:45 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 03:42 Vivax wrote:Look, Xatalos. My question regarding your (suddenly not any more?) scumread, of which you fail to understand why he would attack you like that (although he's your scumread you don't see scummy intentions?). Can you answer this or will you post some more insults, lols and rofls, great lord of house shitvotes? On August 15 2013 00:55 Vivax wrote:I don't see what you mean with contradictory statements from Risen. You posted that he was wrong about you and Dandel, afterwards you posted this: On August 09 2013 21:21 Xatalos wrote:
I agree that Risen is quite likely town (unfortunately, one might also say).
So I wonder now, why do you mention something that is supposed to make him scum when in the past it wasn't reason enough and you gave him a townread in spite of what you call a contradiction now. I think it's pretty null to make such a stupid mistake. How would scum benefit from doing that on purpose? It looked more like he was overjoyed about finding a scumslip and went with it, not like he tried to justify a scumread on me or anything like that. It was so sudden and weird. Could still be scum motivated, just seemed more like null or even townish to do that. I think you're just not reading the thread. My suspicions for Risen had already started before I noticed his inconsistent thought process. Then he posted that he had only suspected DI because of his connection to me. That's just 100% false. 1) It was the other way around, a big part of his case of his case on me was based on my connection to DI. 2) Even if it wasn't the other way around, it wasn't possibly ONLY because of DI's connection to me. There were many other reasons but nothing about a connection. It made me think his original case was all made up, since he couldn't even grasp the logic of his own case HIMSELF. What town would decide their reads, then justify them with bad logic, then not even understand the logic behind their reads? That's right, only scum would do that. (After witnessing Risen's total failure in thinking on several occasions, I've had to admit that maybe he's just incapable of logic altogether.) On August 15 2013 02:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 15 2013 02:31 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 02:03 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 15 2013 01:58 Vivax wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On August 15 2013 01:53 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 01:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:
You have been bringing up these "fruitless details" for a long time. can you now explain what do you mean by them so i could... you know... answer you? Well, it seems like I've underestimated your focus on relevant stuff. Although there are some things that don't feel good. For example this from iamperfection after D2 about you: "Asked some pointless questions to me wasting time and therefore posting without a point" Not sure if that means PMs or in thread. I can't seem to find this in thread now. Either way, not good. Then there was that huge spam about the role name thing D1. Pretty ridiculous and buried potentially useful posts. Also quite a lot of spam during D2 like "What's up, X?" or "What did you mean with this?". But as I said, I take back that you focused THAT much on useless stuff. More like there's a decent amount of useless, but more relevant posts than I thought. Did you even read Rayn's last town game? I thought he was mafia in obs qt, he's just like that. Him and his love for single malt, I suspect. He's lurky as fuck when he's scum, there's no fucking way he's scum in this game with his current activity. You're waaay more useless, you still didn't answer my question and prefer to post LOL and ROFL. Shouldn't you be some more interested into talking with your scumread? This is plain wrong btw. Indeed. Buddying up? Or what? rayn is never lurky. At least looking at NWM, Titanic and Catch 22, he was always spammy and active as scum or town. What I'm trying to distinguish is townish activity and scummy activity. He's going to be active regardless. On August 15 2013 01:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 15 2013 01:55 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 01:49 raynpelikoneet wrote:
And why the fuck does Xatalos dodge my questions about Mocsta and me/Acro stuff every time i ask him. What do you mean? What haven't I answered? Give me a full answer on Mocsta case, and give me an answer why did you call me out with your scumread Acro for bullshit reasoning "you have focused on all the wrong things all the game". I've explained why I went along with Acro in detail already. It had to do with my increasing townread on Acro, my bad gut feeling regarding you, your useless spam posts and me believing that one of you (rayn, Acro) was probably scum (I'm not as sure about that one anymore). Go read my filter please, it should be clear at this point. Onwards to the Mocsta case. - I agree that jrkirby was scummy - You twist some of what Mocsta said... He didn't say "Sharrant isn't playing his town meta and thus is town", he said several points and counter-points and concluded town... Dunno about the lynchbait thing - At least iamperfection has said that he has a townread on you in PMs, your terrible early game might refer to your spam about the rolename thing, "forced aggression" might also mean the useless spam, lastly hard to talk about a game I haven't played in (and meta shouldn't be overused) Overall I'd say Mocsta is slightly scummy (counting jrkirby's scumminess), and a pretty reasonable lynch, but he has been very active today and I'd like to give him a bit more time (like I said earlier). - Your posts before Acro's case imply that he is your scumread. Tell me when did you drop your suspicion on him. - Explain this: "He didn't say "Sharrant isn't playing his town meta and thus is town", he said several points and counter-points and concluded town... " because that's exactly what Mocsta said. If not, why did you not say this in the first place? - About the rolename thing (is this all you are going to bring up - i thought you had more things as you implied so). I talked about it with Solstice, i do not agree with him, and i think it's not alignment indicative. I am not calling johnny scum because of it, I AM SAYING HE IS NOT TOWN BECAUSE OF IT!!!! wtf? - You didn't explain the "forced aggression", where is it? Gimme quotes? You are calling me scum for things you don't even know what they mean. Do you see how retarded that is? I still suspected Acro somewhat when I was arguing with him, and I still do have some very slight suspicion. But iamperfection's strong belief in Acro being town and the townish feeling of the argument between us made me stop pursuing him as potential scum. If he's still alive at LYLO, there would be reason to revisit him. I think you misread his post. He had several points for Sharrant being town or for being scum. He said something like "Sharrant isn't playing his town meta, but he's been AFK so that might explain it. Overall leaning town". Just reread it with an objective mind. The rolename thing = the "forced aggression". At least I think so, you should go ask him. I can't know what he's thinking. I was just trying to say that he's not necessarily scum and he's not a good lynch for today. Maybe for later, but not at the moment. I'm not going to restart the argument about the rolenames, it already buried countless pages for no gain. And it wasn't the only thing I mentioned, I also mentioned that you had apparently wasted iamperfection's time with pointless questions and had tons of useless filler one-liner posts. where have i wasted iamps time with pointless questions? your other answers fall into the category: You are calling me scum for things you don't even know what they mean. Do you see how retarded that is? From iamperfection's last will: "Asked some pointless questions to me wasting time and therefore posting without a point would still guess he is town though." I'm not even calling you scum. Just that you're scum much more likely than in NWM and more likely than Acro. So do you know what these pointless questions are? Because i sure do not. Why are you bringing them up if you don't? To me it seems like you are trying to throw shit on someone who a now confirmed town was suspicious about. And to strengthen your D2 read, which was full of shit. Why did you say i "was focusing on wrong things"? You have never explained that. I guess he means Lord PM's. Impossible to prove that though. I won't make the mistake of "confirming" someone and let them do whatever they want. I did that with Ace and Koshi in NWM, for example, and it was ugly. If there's reason for doubt, I will point it out. Have you considered that "wrong things" might mean things such as the rolename spam, pointless one-liners and whatever iamperfection meant? I find it pretty damning that all of snb's contributions come under pressure. His play is completely reactive and passive. It's time to increase the pressure. ##Vote strongandbig
seriously? what do you want from me? should i ignore the fact that people are calling for me to be killed?
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On August 15 2013 05:11 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 05:08 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 04:59 Grackaroni wrote:On August 15 2013 04:54 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 04:47 Grackaroni wrote:What stood out to me first is his interactions with Yamato. On August 10 2013 06:04 strongandbig wrote:On August 10 2013 05:58 yamato77 wrote:On August 10 2013 05:55 Acrofales wrote:On August 10 2013 05:51 yamato77 wrote:
Most of SNB's contribution to the game consists of making a big deal out of some rolename controversy within his own house on N0. Aside from complaining that Clarity unwittingly ruined some sort of plan (lolwhatever), there's almost nothing of substance in his filter aside from a townread on Dandel (like that means anything).
His activity also fits in with his scum meta-activity as evidenced by the same sort of lurky and somewhat disinterested play he exhibited in Sicilian. He's set himself up so that he is voting for who his house wants to vote for, conveniently absolving himself of any true scumhunting in-thread. In a previous encounter, a jousting match at Castle PTP, he was largely unavailable and never contributed anything of value, yet was town. Not to say that I encourage that behaviour, but I'm not sure it's sufficient for murdering him. So how do you advise we treat the SnB situation, then, Acro? Let him lurk into LYLO? It's not like he's an incompetent town player. If he's town, he's good enough to show it. idiot i'm busier today than i was yesterday. that doesn't mean im lurking. i just coutned, i have sent 123 PMs this game. so fuck you saying i'm scum for inactivity. also you should know better than this. my activity is just as bad when i'm town as it is when i'm scum. if not worse. you are making up things to suit your agenda and i woudl be down to lynch or vig you. On August 10 2013 06:08 strongandbig wrote:On August 10 2013 06:07 yamato77 wrote:On August 10 2013 06:04 strongandbig wrote:On August 10 2013 05:58 yamato77 wrote:On August 10 2013 05:55 Acrofales wrote:
[quote]
In a previous encounter, a jousting match at Castle PTP, he was largely unavailable and never contributed anything of value, yet was town. Not to say that I encourage that behaviour, but I'm not sure it's sufficient for murdering him. So how do you advise we treat the SnB situation, then, Acro? Let him lurk into LYLO? It's not like he's an incompetent town player. If he's town, he's good enough to show it. idiot i'm busier today than i was yesterday. that doesn't mean im lurking. i just coutned, i have sent 123 PMs this game. so fuck you saying i'm scum for inactivity. also you should know better than this. my activity is just as bad when i'm town as it is when i'm scum. if not worse. you are making up things to suit your agenda and i woudl be down to lynch or vig you. So "I do this as town, too!' is your only defense? Last time I heard that, a SCUM PLAYER was getting lynched D1 in Catch 22. no you fucker my defense is that i have been way, way more active than many people in this game, including you. He gives out these strong accusations of Yamato trying to make things up to suit his agenda, and see that Yamato has done nothing this game but fight with Oats over dumb stuff at the start of the game and not scum hun, Then he plants his vote on Onegu with weak reasoning. On August 10 2013 06:13 strongandbig wrote:
Right now I think I want to lynch onegu the most. I thought the pressure on him at the start was for a bad reason, but he didn't really do anything at all in the way of scumhunting when the pressure was taken off of him.
So ##vote: onegu At this point of the game he should have a better case for Yamato being scum, (not scumhunting, shitting up the thread, having an agenda) and chooses to ignore it and not pressure Yamato further. On August 13 2013 01:57 strongandbig wrote:On August 13 2013 01:41 Acrofales wrote:On August 13 2013 01:26 strongandbig wrote:
okay i'm back after reading the previous ~45 pages of thread.
i've been camping with my girlfriend for the weekend. the limited activity was because (1) bad cell reception and more importantly (2) lack of interest in mafia when camping with my girlfriend.
I see that people are calling me scum because my activity dropped off, all i'll say to them for now is that if you think occasional inactivity is something I only show in scum games then you're either scum or lazy as fuck.
I want to talk specifically to what vivax said about my pms during night 1. It's true that I was very malleable as regards where to send the KP. The plan from iamperfection and rayn was made while I was gone, and I hadn't read the thread at that point. I sent in the KP after reading gumshoe's filter and deciding that he was a good enough choice for a lurker shot, and I sent it as soon as I finished reading the thread because I was something like half an hour late for my assigned time slot, and didn't want to fuck up their plan for sending in the KP sequentially.
But anyway, it seems the reason most people have been calling me scum isn't for anything I did, but for stopping paying attention to the game over the weekend. So the best way to shut that down is to start caring/paying attention, no? Yet another paragon of useful contribution. After reading 45 pages you must have something to say about the CONTENT of those pages, no? The Redwyne fleet is ready to sail north and stab you in the face. typing bro i see no reason to talk abotu the yamato situation since he claimed scum and we're killing him. cool that sharrant chose a good target. i thought some about shooting yamato but since i didnt do it and didn't actually push him it doesn't matter. if you're trying to decide whether i'm scum, make sure you think a little bit about his push on me, also, and explain how we could be teammates before you shoot me. i mean obviously its possible that he was trying to bus me, but i would argue scum would be unlikely to bus their teammate who won a lordship and then was not going to be active enough to defend himself until after a full round of vig shots. i see no real reason to talk about the oberyn fakeclaim situation either. actually, here's something - i would say that the scum roleblocker may not have claimed because he knew oberyn and onegu were lying (either onegu or oberyn being scum in that case) but it's also possible that they were inactive. it seems unlikely that they would have called their bluff completely, given that jk is such a good fakeclaim for that scenario and that it was mentioned in the thread, but that can't be ruled out either. so i don't think we can be like "omg someone leaked the plan lynch into oberyn and onegu". That said, it does make them deserving of some extra scrutiny as compared to any random person in the game, i guess. so yeah there you go, a paragraph where i don't really say anything, happy? I thought this post was scummy, he comes in with this long post and says nothing besides, I didn't actually push Yamato but we were fighting with each other so we can't be scum together. Then adds in this last paragraph where he knows he's not adding anything and justifies it by adding in the last sentence. Aside from that yes, the activity hasn't been the best and he only pushes Risen for not having logical reads which doesn't seem to be alignment indicative for Risen. I didn't really think yamato was scum at that point, I just thought he was being an asshole and I was getting pissed. Also I was already out of town at that point. My reasoning for voting onegu was that he was the lynch candidate who I agreed with the cases against the most. I talked about those cases a bit but it's true that my reasoning was not explained in detail. I was out of town camping with my girlfriend and put in as much time as I felt like on my vote. And you seriously are calling me scum for the fact that my post explaining why I wasn't talking doesn't say anything??? That's the whole point of that post! I had just been accused by acro for not contributing, during the time while I was typing my Risen case. I decided to be a bit snarky and explain in detail why I decided not to talk about some of the things that acro apparently thought I should have talked about. AGAIN, ANYONE WHO WANTS TO KILL ME SHOULD READ YAMATO'S FILTER AND EXPLAIN WHY HE WAS PUSHING ME, HIS TEAMMATE, FOR INACTIVITY AND "NOT CARING" WHILE SUPPOSEDLY KNOWING THAT I WOULD BE GONE FOR SEVERAL DAYS AND UNABLE TO RESPOND.Seriously, I can't believe you are making a yamato connection case to argue i'm scum. Not the first post explaining why you weren't talking. The post after that you made responding to Acro, when he asked you to contribute any of your thoughts. yeah the one you quoted is the one i'm talking about The post I quoted didn't have anything to do with you explaining why you weren't talking?
i see no reason to talk abotu the yamato situation since he claimed scum and we're killing him. cool that sharrant chose a good target. i thought some about shooting yamato but since i didnt do it and didn't actually push him it doesn't matter. if you're trying to decide whether i'm scum, make sure you think a little bit about his push on me, also, and explain how we could be teammates before you shoot me. i mean obviously its possible that he was trying to bus me, but i would argue scum would be unlikely to bus their teammate who won a lordship and then was not going to be active enough to defend himself until after a full round of vig shots.
i see no real reason to talk about the oberyn fakeclaim situation either. actually, here's something - i would say that the scum roleblocker may not have claimed because he knew oberyn and onegu were lying (either onegu or oberyn being scum in that case) but it's also possible that they were inactive. it seems unlikely that they would have called their bluff completely, given that jk is such a good fakeclaim for that scenario and that it was mentioned in the thread, but that can't be ruled out either. so i don't think we can be like "omg someone leaked the plan lynch into oberyn and onegu". That said, it does make them deserving of some extra scrutiny as compared to any random person in the game, i guess. so yeah there you go, a paragraph where i don't really say anything, happy?
I explained why i didn't think some things were worth commenting on
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On August 15 2013 05:13 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 05:12 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 05:09 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 15 2013 04:54 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 04:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 15 2013 04:45 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 03:42 Vivax wrote:Look, Xatalos. My question regarding your (suddenly not any more?) scumread, of which you fail to understand why he would attack you like that (although he's your scumread you don't see scummy intentions?). Can you answer this or will you post some more insults, lols and rofls, great lord of house shitvotes? On August 15 2013 00:55 Vivax wrote:I don't see what you mean with contradictory statements from Risen. You posted that he was wrong about you and Dandel, afterwards you posted this: On August 09 2013 21:21 Xatalos wrote:
I agree that Risen is quite likely town (unfortunately, one might also say).
So I wonder now, why do you mention something that is supposed to make him scum when in the past it wasn't reason enough and you gave him a townread in spite of what you call a contradiction now. I think it's pretty null to make such a stupid mistake. How would scum benefit from doing that on purpose? It looked more like he was overjoyed about finding a scumslip and went with it, not like he tried to justify a scumread on me or anything like that. It was so sudden and weird. Could still be scum motivated, just seemed more like null or even townish to do that. I think you're just not reading the thread. My suspicions for Risen had already started before I noticed his inconsistent thought process. Then he posted that he had only suspected DI because of his connection to me. That's just 100% false. 1) It was the other way around, a big part of his case of his case on me was based on my connection to DI. 2) Even if it wasn't the other way around, it wasn't possibly ONLY because of DI's connection to me. There were many other reasons but nothing about a connection. It made me think his original case was all made up, since he couldn't even grasp the logic of his own case HIMSELF. What town would decide their reads, then justify them with bad logic, then not even understand the logic behind their reads? That's right, only scum would do that. (After witnessing Risen's total failure in thinking on several occasions, I've had to admit that maybe he's just incapable of logic altogether.) On August 15 2013 02:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 15 2013 02:31 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 02:03 raynpelikoneet wrote:
[quote]
This is plain wrong btw. Indeed. Buddying up? Or what? rayn is never lurky. At least looking at NWM, Titanic and Catch 22, he was always spammy and active as scum or town. What I'm trying to distinguish is townish activity and scummy activity. He's going to be active regardless. On August 15 2013 01:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:
[quote]
Give me a full answer on Mocsta case, and give me an answer why did you call me out with your scumread Acro for bullshit reasoning "you have focused on all the wrong things all the game". I've explained why I went along with Acro in detail already. It had to do with my increasing townread on Acro, my bad gut feeling regarding you, your useless spam posts and me believing that one of you (rayn, Acro) was probably scum (I'm not as sure about that one anymore). Go read my filter please, it should be clear at this point. Onwards to the Mocsta case. - I agree that jrkirby was scummy - You twist some of what Mocsta said... He didn't say "Sharrant isn't playing his town meta and thus is town", he said several points and counter-points and concluded town... Dunno about the lynchbait thing - At least iamperfection has said that he has a townread on you in PMs, your terrible early game might refer to your spam about the rolename thing, "forced aggression" might also mean the useless spam, lastly hard to talk about a game I haven't played in (and meta shouldn't be overused) Overall I'd say Mocsta is slightly scummy (counting jrkirby's scumminess), and a pretty reasonable lynch, but he has been very active today and I'd like to give him a bit more time (like I said earlier). - Your posts before Acro's case imply that he is your scumread. Tell me when did you drop your suspicion on him. - Explain this: "He didn't say "Sharrant isn't playing his town meta and thus is town", he said several points and counter-points and concluded town... " because that's exactly what Mocsta said. If not, why did you not say this in the first place? - About the rolename thing (is this all you are going to bring up - i thought you had more things as you implied so). I talked about it with Solstice, i do not agree with him, and i think it's not alignment indicative. I am not calling johnny scum because of it, I AM SAYING HE IS NOT TOWN BECAUSE OF IT!!!! wtf? - You didn't explain the "forced aggression", where is it? Gimme quotes? You are calling me scum for things you don't even know what they mean. Do you see how retarded that is? I still suspected Acro somewhat when I was arguing with him, and I still do have some very slight suspicion. But iamperfection's strong belief in Acro being town and the townish feeling of the argument between us made me stop pursuing him as potential scum. If he's still alive at LYLO, there would be reason to revisit him. I think you misread his post. He had several points for Sharrant being town or for being scum. He said something like "Sharrant isn't playing his town meta, but he's been AFK so that might explain it. Overall leaning town". Just reread it with an objective mind. The rolename thing = the "forced aggression". At least I think so, you should go ask him. I can't know what he's thinking. I was just trying to say that he's not necessarily scum and he's not a good lynch for today. Maybe for later, but not at the moment. I'm not going to restart the argument about the rolenames, it already buried countless pages for no gain. And it wasn't the only thing I mentioned, I also mentioned that you had apparently wasted iamperfection's time with pointless questions and had tons of useless filler one-liner posts. where have i wasted iamps time with pointless questions? your other answers fall into the category: You are calling me scum for things you don't even know what they mean. Do you see how retarded that is? From iamperfection's last will: "Asked some pointless questions to me wasting time and therefore posting without a point would still guess he is town though." I'm not even calling you scum. Just that you're scum much more likely than in NWM and more likely than Acro. So do you know what these pointless questions are? Because i sure do not. Why are you bringing them up if you don't? To me it seems like you are trying to throw shit on someone who a now confirmed town was suspicious about. And to strengthen your D2 read, which was full of shit. Why did you say i "was focusing on wrong things"? You have never explained that. I guess he means Lord PM's. Impossible to prove that though. I won't make the mistake of "confirming" someone and let them do whatever they want. I did that with Ace and Koshi in NWM, for example, and it was ugly. If there's reason for doubt, I will point it out. Have you considered that "wrong things" might mean things such as the rolename spam, pointless one-liners and whatever iamperfection meant? I find it pretty damning that all of snb's contributions come under pressure. His play is completely reactive and passive. It's time to increase the pressure. ##Vote strongandbig seriously? what do you want from me? should i ignore the fact that people are calling for me to be killed? You could start scumhunting instead of finding reasons for why you could be town.
(1) I already have a scumread that I want people to lynch. no one is engaging my case. I'm not sure how you think I could be more effective just saying the same things about Risen that I've already said.
(2) how can i start scumhunting if people are assuming i'm scum, they're not going to listen to anything i say or else will say "i'm just attacking someone else to defend myself."
(3) everyone so far has been ignoring everything i've said about risen and just used it as reasons to find me scummy
(4) i honestly believe that it is more important as a townie not to get lynched than it is to find scum. I have consistently said this both in and out of games for the past year. I am not going to ignore the fact that I am the number one lynch candidate and that people are voting me for bad reasons, if I can show them why their reasons are bad and persuade them not to vote me then that is way more important to me than persuading them to vote for someone else.
So tell me. What do you think about the "reasons why I could be town." Care to tell me why you think I'm scum despite the reasons given being all either based on activity or untrue? Why you suddenly decide that I'm the number one person who should be killed?
oh also HOW ARE MY ATTACKS ON RISEN OR VIVAX REACTIVE OR PASSIVE? YOU ARE MAKING SHIT UP!!!!!
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On August 15 2013 05:19 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 05:11 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 05:04 Koshi wrote:
SnB. Same question that I asked you a million times in Sicilian.
Who else than you? You always just defend yourself and don't do anything else. In Sicilian you were blaming Vivax his tunnel on you. This time you are going to use the fact that you and Yamato can't be on the same scumteam... You flipped scum in Sicilian and all my townreads are on your ass atm. If I would have a vote I would vote you in an instant. a townie's first duty is to not get lynched. defending yourself if you're going to get lynched is the most important thing. i want to kill risen as i have made abundantly clear. i'm not satisfied at all with either of their answers. I think risen's day 1 shows his scum mindset and he hasn't gotten much better since then, he's spent the whole rest of the game tunneling sharrant and now he's voting me because i thought he had one good point in his case on sharrant but i still think he's scum. i also still think vivax is probably scum but risen is still number one on my kill list atm. And rayn? or not anymore? why?
I don't think I ever actually called rayn scum, but it's true I attacked him a bunch. I'm still not sure about rayn, but clarity told me in pms that he thought rayn really seemed similar to his last town game, and that the irrelevant questions and random fights from rayn are not indicative of him being scum. I still think clarity is probably town despite his case on me being terrible, and I also decided I was getting too pissed off at rayn to keep thinking objectively. So no, my kill list is risen and vivax.
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On August 15 2013 05:21 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 05:18 Risen wrote:On August 15 2013 05:13 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:12 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 05:09 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 15 2013 04:54 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 04:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 15 2013 04:45 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 03:42 Vivax wrote:
Look, Xatalos. My question regarding your (suddenly not any more?) scumread, of which you fail to understand why he would attack you like that (although he's your scumread you don't see scummy intentions?).
Can you answer this or will you post some more insults, lols and rofls, great lord of house shitvotes?
[quote]
I think it's pretty null to make such a stupid mistake. How would scum benefit from doing that on purpose? It looked more like he was overjoyed about finding a scumslip and went with it, not like he tried to justify a scumread on me or anything like that. It was so sudden and weird. Could still be scum motivated, just seemed more like null or even townish to do that. I think you're just not reading the thread. My suspicions for Risen had already started before I noticed his inconsistent thought process. Then he posted that he had only suspected DI because of his connection to me. That's just 100% false. 1) It was the other way around, a big part of his case of his case on me was based on my connection to DI. 2) Even if it wasn't the other way around, it wasn't possibly ONLY because of DI's connection to me. There were many other reasons but nothing about a connection. It made me think his original case was all made up, since he couldn't even grasp the logic of his own case HIMSELF. What town would decide their reads, then justify them with bad logic, then not even understand the logic behind their reads? That's right, only scum would do that. (After witnessing Risen's total failure in thinking on several occasions, I've had to admit that maybe he's just incapable of logic altogether.) On August 15 2013 02:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:
[quote]
- Your posts before Acro's case imply that he is your scumread. Tell me when did you drop your suspicion on him.
- Explain this: "He didn't say "Sharrant isn't playing his town meta and thus is town", he said several points and counter-points and concluded town... " because that's exactly what Mocsta said. If not, why did you not say this in the first place?
- About the rolename thing (is this all you are going to bring up - i thought you had more things as you implied so). I talked about it with Solstice, i do not agree with him, and i think it's not alignment indicative. I am not calling johnny scum because of it, I AM SAYING HE IS NOT TOWN BECAUSE OF IT!!!! wtf?
- You didn't explain the "forced aggression", where is it? Gimme quotes?
You are calling me scum for things you don't even know what they mean. Do you see how retarded that is? I still suspected Acro somewhat when I was arguing with him, and I still do have some very slight suspicion. But iamperfection's strong belief in Acro being town and the townish feeling of the argument between us made me stop pursuing him as potential scum. If he's still alive at LYLO, there would be reason to revisit him. I think you misread his post. He had several points for Sharrant being town or for being scum. He said something like "Sharrant isn't playing his town meta, but he's been AFK so that might explain it. Overall leaning town". Just reread it with an objective mind. The rolename thing = the "forced aggression". At least I think so, you should go ask him. I can't know what he's thinking. I was just trying to say that he's not necessarily scum and he's not a good lynch for today. Maybe for later, but not at the moment. I'm not going to restart the argument about the rolenames, it already buried countless pages for no gain. And it wasn't the only thing I mentioned, I also mentioned that you had apparently wasted iamperfection's time with pointless questions and had tons of useless filler one-liner posts. where have i wasted iamps time with pointless questions? your other answers fall into the category: You are calling me scum for things you don't even know what they mean. Do you see how retarded that is? From iamperfection's last will: "Asked some pointless questions to me wasting time and therefore posting without a point would still guess he is town though." I'm not even calling you scum. Just that you're scum much more likely than in NWM and more likely than Acro. So do you know what these pointless questions are? Because i sure do not. Why are you bringing them up if you don't? To me it seems like you are trying to throw shit on someone who a now confirmed town was suspicious about. And to strengthen your D2 read, which was full of shit. Why did you say i "was focusing on wrong things"? You have never explained that. I guess he means Lord PM's. Impossible to prove that though. I won't make the mistake of "confirming" someone and let them do whatever they want. I did that with Ace and Koshi in NWM, for example, and it was ugly. If there's reason for doubt, I will point it out. Have you considered that "wrong things" might mean things such as the rolename spam, pointless one-liners and whatever iamperfection meant? I find it pretty damning that all of snb's contributions come under pressure. His play is completely reactive and passive. It's time to increase the pressure. ##Vote strongandbig seriously? what do you want from me? should i ignore the fact that people are calling for me to be killed? You could start scumhunting instead of finding reasons for why you could be town. Though to be fair this is an actual point that might make sense if you hadn't just posted a case. He only repeated his earlier weak case and said Vivax was scum for no reason. Why are you soft defending him while voting for him?
i gave a reason for vivax being scum, compared his play in this game and his method of pushing his reads to his usual town play and they're startlingly different. And my case on risen is not weak, no one has talked about it but his day 1 demonstrates a clear scum mindset and he has done nothing else but tunnel sharrant and then attack me for agreeing with him (on one argument) while still thinking he's scum.
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On August 15 2013 05:24 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 05:21 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:18 Risen wrote:On August 15 2013 05:13 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:12 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 05:09 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 15 2013 04:54 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 04:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 15 2013 04:45 Xatalos wrote:
[quote]
I think it's pretty null to make such a stupid mistake. How would scum benefit from doing that on purpose? It looked more like he was overjoyed about finding a scumslip and went with it, not like he tried to justify a scumread on me or anything like that. It was so sudden and weird. Could still be scum motivated, just seemed more like null or even townish to do that.
I think you're just not reading the thread. My suspicions for Risen had already started before I noticed his inconsistent thought process. Then he posted that he had only suspected DI because of his connection to me. That's just 100% false.
1) It was the other way around, a big part of his case of his case on me was based on my connection to DI.
2) Even if it wasn't the other way around, it wasn't possibly ONLY because of DI's connection to me. There were many other reasons but nothing about a connection.
It made me think his original case was all made up, since he couldn't even grasp the logic of his own case HIMSELF. What town would decide their reads, then justify them with bad logic, then not even understand the logic behind their reads? That's right, only scum would do that. (After witnessing Risen's total failure in thinking on several occasions, I've had to admit that maybe he's just incapable of logic altogether.)
[quote]
I still suspected Acro somewhat when I was arguing with him, and I still do have some very slight suspicion. But iamperfection's strong belief in Acro being town and the townish feeling of the argument between us made me stop pursuing him as potential scum. If he's still alive at LYLO, there would be reason to revisit him.
I think you misread his post. He had several points for Sharrant being town or for being scum. He said something like "Sharrant isn't playing his town meta, but he's been AFK so that might explain it. Overall leaning town". Just reread it with an objective mind.
The rolename thing = the "forced aggression". At least I think so, you should go ask him. I can't know what he's thinking. I was just trying to say that he's not necessarily scum and he's not a good lynch for today. Maybe for later, but not at the moment. I'm not going to restart the argument about the rolenames, it already buried countless pages for no gain. And it wasn't the only thing I mentioned, I also mentioned that you had apparently wasted iamperfection's time with pointless questions and had tons of useless filler one-liner posts. where have i wasted iamps time with pointless questions? your other answers fall into the category: You are calling me scum for things you don't even know what they mean. Do you see how retarded that is? From iamperfection's last will: "Asked some pointless questions to me wasting time and therefore posting without a point would still guess he is town though." I'm not even calling you scum. Just that you're scum much more likely than in NWM and more likely than Acro. So do you know what these pointless questions are? Because i sure do not. Why are you bringing them up if you don't? To me it seems like you are trying to throw shit on someone who a now confirmed town was suspicious about. And to strengthen your D2 read, which was full of shit. Why did you say i "was focusing on wrong things"? You have never explained that. I guess he means Lord PM's. Impossible to prove that though. I won't make the mistake of "confirming" someone and let them do whatever they want. I did that with Ace and Koshi in NWM, for example, and it was ugly. If there's reason for doubt, I will point it out. Have you considered that "wrong things" might mean things such as the rolename spam, pointless one-liners and whatever iamperfection meant? I find it pretty damning that all of snb's contributions come under pressure. His play is completely reactive and passive. It's time to increase the pressure. ##Vote strongandbig seriously? what do you want from me? should i ignore the fact that people are calling for me to be killed? You could start scumhunting instead of finding reasons for why you could be town. Though to be fair this is an actual point that might make sense if you hadn't just posted a case. He only repeated his earlier weak case and said Vivax was scum for no reason. Why are you soft defending him while voting for him? Wait what? My vote is on SnB. Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 05:21 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 05:13 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:12 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 05:09 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 15 2013 04:54 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 04:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 15 2013 04:45 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 03:42 Vivax wrote:
Look, Xatalos. My question regarding your (suddenly not any more?) scumread, of which you fail to understand why he would attack you like that (although he's your scumread you don't see scummy intentions?).
Can you answer this or will you post some more insults, lols and rofls, great lord of house shitvotes?
[quote]
I think it's pretty null to make such a stupid mistake. How would scum benefit from doing that on purpose? It looked more like he was overjoyed about finding a scumslip and went with it, not like he tried to justify a scumread on me or anything like that. It was so sudden and weird. Could still be scum motivated, just seemed more like null or even townish to do that. I think you're just not reading the thread. My suspicions for Risen had already started before I noticed his inconsistent thought process. Then he posted that he had only suspected DI because of his connection to me. That's just 100% false. 1) It was the other way around, a big part of his case of his case on me was based on my connection to DI. 2) Even if it wasn't the other way around, it wasn't possibly ONLY because of DI's connection to me. There were many other reasons but nothing about a connection. It made me think his original case was all made up, since he couldn't even grasp the logic of his own case HIMSELF. What town would decide their reads, then justify them with bad logic, then not even understand the logic behind their reads? That's right, only scum would do that. (After witnessing Risen's total failure in thinking on several occasions, I've had to admit that maybe he's just incapable of logic altogether.) On August 15 2013 02:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:
[quote]
- Your posts before Acro's case imply that he is your scumread. Tell me when did you drop your suspicion on him.
- Explain this: "He didn't say "Sharrant isn't playing his town meta and thus is town", he said several points and counter-points and concluded town... " because that's exactly what Mocsta said. If not, why did you not say this in the first place?
- About the rolename thing (is this all you are going to bring up - i thought you had more things as you implied so). I talked about it with Solstice, i do not agree with him, and i think it's not alignment indicative. I am not calling johnny scum because of it, I AM SAYING HE IS NOT TOWN BECAUSE OF IT!!!! wtf?
- You didn't explain the "forced aggression", where is it? Gimme quotes?
You are calling me scum for things you don't even know what they mean. Do you see how retarded that is? I still suspected Acro somewhat when I was arguing with him, and I still do have some very slight suspicion. But iamperfection's strong belief in Acro being town and the townish feeling of the argument between us made me stop pursuing him as potential scum. If he's still alive at LYLO, there would be reason to revisit him. I think you misread his post. He had several points for Sharrant being town or for being scum. He said something like "Sharrant isn't playing his town meta, but he's been AFK so that might explain it. Overall leaning town". Just reread it with an objective mind. The rolename thing = the "forced aggression". At least I think so, you should go ask him. I can't know what he's thinking. I was just trying to say that he's not necessarily scum and he's not a good lynch for today. Maybe for later, but not at the moment. I'm not going to restart the argument about the rolenames, it already buried countless pages for no gain. And it wasn't the only thing I mentioned, I also mentioned that you had apparently wasted iamperfection's time with pointless questions and had tons of useless filler one-liner posts. where have i wasted iamps time with pointless questions? your other answers fall into the category: You are calling me scum for things you don't even know what they mean. Do you see how retarded that is? From iamperfection's last will: "Asked some pointless questions to me wasting time and therefore posting without a point would still guess he is town though." I'm not even calling you scum. Just that you're scum much more likely than in NWM and more likely than Acro. So do you know what these pointless questions are? Because i sure do not. Why are you bringing them up if you don't? To me it seems like you are trying to throw shit on someone who a now confirmed town was suspicious about. And to strengthen your D2 read, which was full of shit. Why did you say i "was focusing on wrong things"? You have never explained that. I guess he means Lord PM's. Impossible to prove that though. I won't make the mistake of "confirming" someone and let them do whatever they want. I did that with Ace and Koshi in NWM, for example, and it was ugly. If there's reason for doubt, I will point it out. Have you considered that "wrong things" might mean things such as the rolename spam, pointless one-liners and whatever iamperfection meant? I find it pretty damning that all of snb's contributions come under pressure. His play is completely reactive and passive. It's time to increase the pressure. ##Vote strongandbig seriously? what do you want from me? should i ignore the fact that people are calling for me to be killed? You could start scumhunting instead of finding reasons for why you could be town. (1) I already have a scumread that I want people to lynch. no one is engaging my case. I'm not sure how you think I could be more effective just saying the same things about Risen that I've already said. (2) how can i start scumhunting if people are assuming i'm scum, they're not going to listen to anything i say or else will say "i'm just attacking someone else to defend myself." (3) everyone so far has been ignoring everything i've said about risen and just used it as reasons to find me scummy (4) i honestly believe that it is more important as a townie not to get lynched than it is to find scum. I have consistently said this both in and out of games for the past year. I am not going to ignore the fact that I am the number one lynch candidate and that people are voting me for bad reasons, if I can show them why their reasons are bad and persuade them not to vote me then that is way more important to me than persuading them to vote for someone else. So tell me. What do you think about the "reasons why I could be town." Care to tell me why you think I'm scum despite the reasons given being all either based on activity or untrue? Why you suddenly decide that I'm the number one person who should be killed? oh also HOW ARE MY ATTACKS ON RISEN OR VIVAX REACTIVE OR PASSIVE? YOU ARE MAKING SHIT UP!!!!! I hate people ignoring my case so please link me to or write out exactly what you want answered and I will do so.
well, its kind of hard to talk to you about my case on you when what i want is for other people to pay attention to it but the last interaction anyone had with me about it was this convo with rayn which he abandoned:
On August 13 2013 05:01 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 13 2013 03:31 strongandbig wrote:On August 13 2013 03:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 13 2013 03:22 strongandbig wrote:
rayn can you explain why you have a town read on risen?
Do you really think his first reads post could come from scum!Risen? Basically because of that. yes i do and i said why did you read my post? Yes i read your post. First you say Risen is scum for calling out anti-town behavior (Oats/yamato/DI). not for calling out anti-town behavior. For calling people "scum" because they're playing badly as town, not because of actual behaviors that indicate they are scum. Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: Sounds good. You are also saying he should know their meta. Afaik the guy has had a long break from mafia (correct me if i am wrong here). People (aside me) tend to forget how people play in games, just look at Titanic where i was trying to confirm Oats in a way or another from the game he played a couple of weeks ago. Didn´t work. So calling out anti-town behavior without looking into players last games makes him mafia?
well, if he really had forgotten everything about those players then my "should have known better" point wouldn't be correct. I don't think it's that easy to forget things like "this player gets in fights" or especially to forget dandel ion. but anyway, even if that is the case - there's still the fact that an experienced player would, if they were town, know that townies get in fights and fuck up the thread too, and that spamming doesn't make you scum. Come on rayn, making cases against bad play rather than scum-motivated play is scum 101 and that's what risen was doing here, whether or not he knew anyone's meta. Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Then there is a connection case. You said townies can do that too. That´s right. Did you check if Risen does that as town? As scum? At least you didn´t tell that in your case. If you are gonna tell Risen is scum for something both town/mafia do, at least provide some evidence.
that's why this was a minor point, it's something that both town and scum do but scum are more likely to do it than townies are. Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Huge post - makes him scum how? i never said it did, i was trying to explain why it doesn't make him town. Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
"Easy reads" for anti town behavior - makes him scum how?
duh. if someone is choosing easy targets and making easy cases against them, it's because that person is not actually trying to find real scum but just trying to look like they are. Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
How is Risen´s post "constructed and careful"?
compare it to the entire rest of his filter. he obviously spent more time on that post than on anything else he's done - it's much longer, but also (for example) he uses quotes more (the only place he uses quotes as examples rather than things to respond to). and yet he spends all that effort making terrible, scummy reads. Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
The only thing that holds water in your post is that he has not explained / pursued his reads. Fuck, a half of the playerbase doesn´t even seem to have reads. If you think Risen´s reads are bad, why don´t you question him on them? Instead you want to hear from people who have been in contact with him?? Why? Why not from him? i want to hear from people who have been in contact with him because maybe he's been putting more effort into his reads and the game outside of the thread. those people can give me information that i can't get from reading his filter. i fully expect him to answer my case but i shouldn't have to ask for it specifically, should i?
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On August 15 2013 05:27 Risen wrote:
^I don't know what was scummy about my d1 play, please link the case detailing what you thought was scummy to me. Also please explain why my actions d2 and today have been scummy.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=19495357
since then: you've been focusing basically entirely on sharrant. Your initial reasons were mostly bad, and when sharrant answered them you ignored his answers and continued to tunnel him, and me and acro largely because of the connection case with sharrant. it's scummy because your ignoring his answers, and focusing on connections before he flips, make it more likely to be a convenient way to "remain consistent" and have some thread presence without having to actually hunt scum in a meaningful way.
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On August 15 2013 05:29 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 05:21 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 05:13 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:12 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 05:09 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 15 2013 04:54 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 04:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 15 2013 04:45 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 03:42 Vivax wrote:
Look, Xatalos. My question regarding your (suddenly not any more?) scumread, of which you fail to understand why he would attack you like that (although he's your scumread you don't see scummy intentions?).
Can you answer this or will you post some more insults, lols and rofls, great lord of house shitvotes?
[quote]
I think it's pretty null to make such a stupid mistake. How would scum benefit from doing that on purpose? It looked more like he was overjoyed about finding a scumslip and went with it, not like he tried to justify a scumread on me or anything like that. It was so sudden and weird. Could still be scum motivated, just seemed more like null or even townish to do that. I think you're just not reading the thread. My suspicions for Risen had already started before I noticed his inconsistent thought process. Then he posted that he had only suspected DI because of his connection to me. That's just 100% false. 1) It was the other way around, a big part of his case of his case on me was based on my connection to DI. 2) Even if it wasn't the other way around, it wasn't possibly ONLY because of DI's connection to me. There were many other reasons but nothing about a connection. It made me think his original case was all made up, since he couldn't even grasp the logic of his own case HIMSELF. What town would decide their reads, then justify them with bad logic, then not even understand the logic behind their reads? That's right, only scum would do that. (After witnessing Risen's total failure in thinking on several occasions, I've had to admit that maybe he's just incapable of logic altogether.) On August 15 2013 02:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:
[quote]
- Your posts before Acro's case imply that he is your scumread. Tell me when did you drop your suspicion on him.
- Explain this: "He didn't say "Sharrant isn't playing his town meta and thus is town", he said several points and counter-points and concluded town... " because that's exactly what Mocsta said. If not, why did you not say this in the first place?
- About the rolename thing (is this all you are going to bring up - i thought you had more things as you implied so). I talked about it with Solstice, i do not agree with him, and i think it's not alignment indicative. I am not calling johnny scum because of it, I AM SAYING HE IS NOT TOWN BECAUSE OF IT!!!! wtf?
- You didn't explain the "forced aggression", where is it? Gimme quotes?
You are calling me scum for things you don't even know what they mean. Do you see how retarded that is? I still suspected Acro somewhat when I was arguing with him, and I still do have some very slight suspicion. But iamperfection's strong belief in Acro being town and the townish feeling of the argument between us made me stop pursuing him as potential scum. If he's still alive at LYLO, there would be reason to revisit him. I think you misread his post. He had several points for Sharrant being town or for being scum. He said something like "Sharrant isn't playing his town meta, but he's been AFK so that might explain it. Overall leaning town". Just reread it with an objective mind. The rolename thing = the "forced aggression". At least I think so, you should go ask him. I can't know what he's thinking. I was just trying to say that he's not necessarily scum and he's not a good lynch for today. Maybe for later, but not at the moment. I'm not going to restart the argument about the rolenames, it already buried countless pages for no gain. And it wasn't the only thing I mentioned, I also mentioned that you had apparently wasted iamperfection's time with pointless questions and had tons of useless filler one-liner posts. where have i wasted iamps time with pointless questions? your other answers fall into the category: You are calling me scum for things you don't even know what they mean. Do you see how retarded that is? From iamperfection's last will: "Asked some pointless questions to me wasting time and therefore posting without a point would still guess he is town though." I'm not even calling you scum. Just that you're scum much more likely than in NWM and more likely than Acro. So do you know what these pointless questions are? Because i sure do not. Why are you bringing them up if you don't? To me it seems like you are trying to throw shit on someone who a now confirmed town was suspicious about. And to strengthen your D2 read, which was full of shit. Why did you say i "was focusing on wrong things"? You have never explained that. I guess he means Lord PM's. Impossible to prove that though. I won't make the mistake of "confirming" someone and let them do whatever they want. I did that with Ace and Koshi in NWM, for example, and it was ugly. If there's reason for doubt, I will point it out. Have you considered that "wrong things" might mean things such as the rolename spam, pointless one-liners and whatever iamperfection meant? I find it pretty damning that all of snb's contributions come under pressure. His play is completely reactive and passive. It's time to increase the pressure. ##Vote strongandbig seriously? what do you want from me? should i ignore the fact that people are calling for me to be killed? You could start scumhunting instead of finding reasons for why you could be town. (1) I already have a scumread that I want people to lynch. no one is engaging my case. I'm not sure how you think I could be more effective just saying the same things about Risen that I've already said. (2) how can i start scumhunting if people are assuming i'm scum, they're not going to listen to anything i say or else will say "i'm just attacking someone else to defend myself." (3) everyone so far has been ignoring everything i've said about risen and just used it as reasons to find me scummy (4) i honestly believe that it is more important as a townie not to get lynched than it is to find scum. I have consistently said this both in and out of games for the past year. I am not going to ignore the fact that I am the number one lynch candidate and that people are voting me for bad reasons, if I can show them why their reasons are bad and persuade them not to vote me then that is way more important to me than persuading them to vote for someone else. So tell me. What do you think about the "reasons why I could be town." Care to tell me why you think I'm scum despite the reasons given being all either based on activity or untrue? Why you suddenly decide that I'm the number one person who should be killed? oh also HOW ARE MY ATTACKS ON RISEN OR VIVAX REACTIVE OR PASSIVE? YOU ARE MAKING SHIT UP!!!!! This post sounds like the dying cry of a wounded animal for some reason. I think yamato's push on you is pretty null. He could have chosen to softly bus you (not going to get you lynched in any case). Or you're town and he just chose some townie. Actually the bussing theory makes more sense, but it's pretty null. Reactive: posting under pressure. Not doing anything meaningful while not under pressure. Scumhunting is the most important attribute of a townie. It's the most important part of defending yourself. If you can't provide that, even under pressure, you're not showing a town mindset. The problem is that when you're under pressure, you "can't focus". When you're not under pressure, you choose to just be passive. Why is Vivax scum? Do you have any other scumreads besides him and Risen? What do you think of Risen's failure attack on me?
yamato's pressure was not soft, he was the one who started the arguments and themes that are currently getting me killed.
i was not passive on day two, i put together a large case on risen, and i was not passive earlier this morning when i started posting about vivax.
vivax is scum because he gave up his reads so easily when lords didn't agree with him, which is absolutely nothing like the town vivax i've played with, who shouts his reads at the mountains until the end of time and just rages when people don't listen to him. that's the main reason
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i've wasted way too much time at work already. i'll be back in a few hours or something, idk. i'm not sure if i can keep this up, maybe it would be easier just to say fuck it.
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On August 15 2013 05:40 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 05:36 strongandbig wrote:
i've wasted way too much time at work already. i'll be back in a few hours or something, idk. i'm not sure if i can keep this up, maybe it would be easier just to say fuck it. Just keep in mind that martyring means auto-lynch. It creates a terrible meta where scum can martyr and stop posting whenever they're pressured. Even if you are genuinely frustrated, it's not acceptable.
i'm not martyring
just expressing my frustration is all, i'll be back.
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On August 15 2013 06:30 Clarity_nl wrote:
@ Acro, it really was the fact that he pushed yamato so hard in pms. He tried to get snb to shoot yamato as well and he had good arguments and reasoning. As I said in my deathpost it was his only redeeming quality, although with vivax' recent posts I actually feel more comfortable that if one of snb/vivax is scum, it's snb.
@snb, stop saying you're not scum and scumhunt. Make a list. Do something that makes you look townie. Screaming that you're town accomplishes nothing, and blaming the lack of scumhunting on pressure is what I did in my first scumgame.
You think risen and vivax are scum. Who else?
please respond to my answers to you or else unvote me
On August 15 2013 04:42 strongandbig wrote:
Clarity, I also like how you're telling me I had no presence in pms on d2 when the reason for that was that YOU told me you wanted to keep things more in the thread!
On August 15 2013 04:43 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 04:41 Clarity_nl wrote:On August 15 2013 04:35 strongandbig wrote:
why would i want to be lord d2 when i knew i wouldn't be active on sunday.
how am i supposed to prove that i'm townie when idiots keep calling for me to be shot and i have to spend all my time defending myself.
and it's straight up not true that everyone thought that list post was terrible. for example, iamperfection told me that risen was town just because of that post, because he thoguht scum risen would never put that much effort into a post. i had to explain why that post was scummy so i could counteract that argument.
and of course my case is comprised of risen's day one he posted like three one-liners on day 2!
Your case boils down to "you disagree with my case on risen and you don't like that I've had to defend myself all the time after I got back."
Well let me ask you a few things.
(1) What happened to your "strong town read" on me after day 1? Do you think I would have been that active as scum in PMs and then suddenly decided I didn't care anymore?
(2) I was practically yamato's ONLY REAL PUSH. Do you think if we were on a scum team together he would have been pushing me, for the EXACT SAME REASONS you are pushing me for now - inactivity and "not caring", when he would have known I would be away and not defend myself for several days? Seriously? 1) it.. like... went away or something, I dunno. 2) He was pushing you d1. You were around d1, nor were you under any threat of being lynched. He didn't push you d2 he was too busy posting baby seals and shit. So you're misrepresenting stuff now. he was pushing me after i went camping. I was camping friday through sunday aka the second day of D1 (when he started pushing me and if we were scum he would have known I wouldn't be able to respond), the night phase, and the first day of D2
On August 15 2013 05:21 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 05:13 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:12 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 05:09 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 15 2013 04:54 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 04:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 15 2013 04:45 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 03:42 Vivax wrote:Look, Xatalos. My question regarding your (suddenly not any more?) scumread, of which you fail to understand why he would attack you like that (although he's your scumread you don't see scummy intentions?). Can you answer this or will you post some more insults, lols and rofls, great lord of house shitvotes? On August 15 2013 00:55 Vivax wrote:
I don't see what you mean with contradictory statements from Risen. You posted that he was wrong about you and Dandel, afterwards you posted this:
[quote]
So I wonder now, why do you mention something that is supposed to make him scum when in the past it wasn't reason enough and you gave him a townread in spite of what you call a contradiction now.
I think it's pretty null to make such a stupid mistake. How would scum benefit from doing that on purpose? It looked more like he was overjoyed about finding a scumslip and went with it, not like he tried to justify a scumread on me or anything like that. It was so sudden and weird. Could still be scum motivated, just seemed more like null or even townish to do that. I think you're just not reading the thread. My suspicions for Risen had already started before I noticed his inconsistent thought process. Then he posted that he had only suspected DI because of his connection to me. That's just 100% false. 1) It was the other way around, a big part of his case of his case on me was based on my connection to DI. 2) Even if it wasn't the other way around, it wasn't possibly ONLY because of DI's connection to me. There were many other reasons but nothing about a connection. It made me think his original case was all made up, since he couldn't even grasp the logic of his own case HIMSELF. What town would decide their reads, then justify them with bad logic, then not even understand the logic behind their reads? That's right, only scum would do that. (After witnessing Risen's total failure in thinking on several occasions, I've had to admit that maybe he's just incapable of logic altogether.) On August 15 2013 02:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 15 2013 02:31 Xatalos wrote:
[quote]
Indeed. Buddying up? Or what? rayn is never lurky. At least looking at NWM, Titanic and Catch 22, he was always spammy and active as scum or town. What I'm trying to distinguish is townish activity and scummy activity. He's going to be active regardless.
[quote]
I've explained why I went along with Acro in detail already. It had to do with my increasing townread on Acro, my bad gut feeling regarding you, your useless spam posts and me believing that one of you (rayn, Acro) was probably scum (I'm not as sure about that one anymore). Go read my filter please, it should be clear at this point.
Onwards to the Mocsta case.
- I agree that jrkirby was scummy
- You twist some of what Mocsta said... He didn't say "Sharrant isn't playing his town meta and thus is town", he said several points and counter-points and concluded town... Dunno about the lynchbait thing
- At least iamperfection has said that he has a townread on you in PMs, your terrible early game might refer to your spam about the rolename thing, "forced aggression" might also mean the useless spam, lastly hard to talk about a game I haven't played in (and meta shouldn't be overused)
Overall I'd say Mocsta is slightly scummy (counting jrkirby's scumminess), and a pretty reasonable lynch, but he has been very active today and I'd like to give him a bit more time (like I said earlier). - Your posts before Acro's case imply that he is your scumread. Tell me when did you drop your suspicion on him. - Explain this: "He didn't say "Sharrant isn't playing his town meta and thus is town", he said several points and counter-points and concluded town... " because that's exactly what Mocsta said. If not, why did you not say this in the first place? - About the rolename thing (is this all you are going to bring up - i thought you had more things as you implied so). I talked about it with Solstice, i do not agree with him, and i think it's not alignment indicative. I am not calling johnny scum because of it, I AM SAYING HE IS NOT TOWN BECAUSE OF IT!!!! wtf? - You didn't explain the "forced aggression", where is it? Gimme quotes? You are calling me scum for things you don't even know what they mean. Do you see how retarded that is? I still suspected Acro somewhat when I was arguing with him, and I still do have some very slight suspicion. But iamperfection's strong belief in Acro being town and the townish feeling of the argument between us made me stop pursuing him as potential scum. If he's still alive at LYLO, there would be reason to revisit him. I think you misread his post. He had several points for Sharrant being town or for being scum. He said something like "Sharrant isn't playing his town meta, but he's been AFK so that might explain it. Overall leaning town". Just reread it with an objective mind. The rolename thing = the "forced aggression". At least I think so, you should go ask him. I can't know what he's thinking. I was just trying to say that he's not necessarily scum and he's not a good lynch for today. Maybe for later, but not at the moment. I'm not going to restart the argument about the rolenames, it already buried countless pages for no gain. And it wasn't the only thing I mentioned, I also mentioned that you had apparently wasted iamperfection's time with pointless questions and had tons of useless filler one-liner posts. where have i wasted iamps time with pointless questions? your other answers fall into the category: You are calling me scum for things you don't even know what they mean. Do you see how retarded that is? From iamperfection's last will: "Asked some pointless questions to me wasting time and therefore posting without a point would still guess he is town though." I'm not even calling you scum. Just that you're scum much more likely than in NWM and more likely than Acro. So do you know what these pointless questions are? Because i sure do not. Why are you bringing them up if you don't? To me it seems like you are trying to throw shit on someone who a now confirmed town was suspicious about. And to strengthen your D2 read, which was full of shit. Why did you say i "was focusing on wrong things"? You have never explained that. I guess he means Lord PM's. Impossible to prove that though. I won't make the mistake of "confirming" someone and let them do whatever they want. I did that with Ace and Koshi in NWM, for example, and it was ugly. If there's reason for doubt, I will point it out. Have you considered that "wrong things" might mean things such as the rolename spam, pointless one-liners and whatever iamperfection meant? I find it pretty damning that all of snb's contributions come under pressure. His play is completely reactive and passive. It's time to increase the pressure. ##Vote strongandbig seriously? what do you want from me? should i ignore the fact that people are calling for me to be killed? You could start scumhunting instead of finding reasons for why you could be town. (1) I already have a scumread that I want people to lynch. no one is engaging my case. I'm not sure how you think I could be more effective just saying the same things about Risen that I've already said. (2) how can i start scumhunting if people are assuming i'm scum, they're not going to listen to anything i say or else will say "i'm just attacking someone else to defend myself." (3) everyone so far has been ignoring everything i've said about risen and just used it as reasons to find me scummy (4) i honestly believe that it is more important as a townie not to get lynched than it is to find scum. I have consistently said this both in and out of games for the past year. I am not going to ignore the fact that I am the number one lynch candidate and that people are voting me for bad reasons, if I can show them why their reasons are bad and persuade them not to vote me then that is way more important to me than persuading them to vote for someone else. So tell me. What do you think about the "reasons why I could be town." Care to tell me why you think I'm scum despite the reasons given being all either based on activity or untrue? Why you suddenly decide that I'm the number one person who should be killed? oh also HOW ARE MY ATTACKS ON RISEN OR VIVAX REACTIVE OR PASSIVE? YOU ARE MAKING SHIT UP!!!!!
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On August 15 2013 07:15 Clarity_nl wrote:
Pretty sure we're finishing you off unless you become useful today, kush.
@ snb, I'm not quite sure when I said you weren't active in pms d2 specifically.
Yamato pushing you could mean anything, doesn't prove you town.
3rd post isn't even me, that's xata...
Risen however is an easy target, and vivax has been a popular person to push this game, so it's not hard seeing scum going for those two.
Really though, scumhunt please. Make a list post.. anything but more posts of you saying "but I'm town"
nah, i'm going home soon. i'll post more tomorrow.
PS my posts aren't "but i'm town", they're "your reasons for thinking i'm scum are stupid and you should feel bad." big difference.
PPS
On August 15 2013 04:19 Clarity_nl wrote:
3) d2 he didn't do much, that's simply how it is. He had no presence in the thread at all, nor im pms.
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im back omg
ima try not to get so mad again. apparently reasoned argument from an emotional position isn't enough to convince people.
On August 15 2013 17:29 Mocsta wrote:
Snb.. shoulda realised this earlier. But a town snb always pushes oats as a lynch. Didn't get that this game.. I need to do another read on him too but I don't think yamato pushed him that hard. U could argue he pushed snb as hard as he pushed acro.
its cause oats was in my house so i could pm him. i talked to him quite a lot on n0 and got a town read on him because his reads on the clarity situation seemed reasonable and made sense to me, and because he seemed to be putting more thought into the implications of vivax's and clarity's actions to their alignments (and more thought in general) than I would have expected from scum-oats. Also because of a general feel of townieness I got from him, like he was really trying to work through things instead of just trying to seem like he was working through things. Once the day started and I was starting from a position of "probably town" his general fumblings reinforced that read, so I never felt like he was scum.
also you should realize, scum snb also always pushes oats as a lynch. it's an easy way to follow my town meta.
On August 15 2013 22:35 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 22:29 Mocsta wrote:On August 15 2013 22:24 Xatalos wrote:
By the way.....
"Strongandbig
I don’t get the early plan role thing. But whatevers. Hard guy to read cos of low give a crap factor. I think hes town personally. Cant really pinpoint why though. Overall; I just don’t feel hes been pushing anything… hence town."
WHAT? Scum SnB in my experience, is always trying to push something. Thats where that came from. Town often dont give a shit, and live by the 80/20 rule. Everyone talks about model townies that are transparent and scum hunting; but fact is.. most townies are filled with sheep lurkers, and its the minority that carry the game. Its a heuristic. Reads change; and based on how SnB has handled his pressure this cycle, my read changed and the heuristic was discarded. Bad play isn't always scum play, but it's more likely scum play than good town play. Especially if the player is good as town. I don't know snb's meta though so it's hard to comment.
apparently im not very good
On August 15 2013 22:37 Acrofales wrote:
I have found that talking to Kush is an utter waste of time. He says one thing, and 10 seconds later he says something entirely different. I feel he has made it his sole purpose to be as useless as possible this game and throw it in our faces.
I don't see any reason why a townie would play like that, so he must be scum. I was asked to compare this to Kush in Smurf. There I get the feeling he is trying to find scum. Here he isn't. He was also about 5 times as active in a smaller, shorter game.
Shoot on sight.
blegh terrible.
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btw i was gonna be like "lynch dandelion instead of me because he's stopped giving a fuck and that's his scum meta".
He has 6 pages of filter day 1, followed by 2 per cycle after that. Steep dropoff in activity.
I still think that's a decent argument but it looks like the only scum games he's had since newbies where he didn't either replace in or replace out d1 were nuclear winter, where he did fit that pattern (only 2pp of filter per cycle, replaced out) and british empire, which was instant majority and so you can't compare filter lengths.
That said I only saw one town game of his where he played like this (red team, 5pp of filter d1, 1pp d2 then lynched). Other than that I went through bastard mini (6pp d1, 5pp d2 then game ended), themed game (9pp of filter d1, then 12pp between d2 and d3), and ptp4 (9pp d1, 7pp d2, then got dayvigged d3) all of which show a much smaller dropoff in activity than this game.
so he's matched this rule in 1/1 scum games that i looked at and only 1/4 town games, odds are pretty good here but it's not the slam-dunk numbers argument that i think it would be if his scum games had a larger sample size.
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On August 16 2013 02:02 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 01:58 Acrofales wrote:
@Mocsta: you have no fucking clue how SnB's scum meta works, so why are you giving him a town read based on meta. Your meta read is entirely wrong... and I want you to either explain it in detail with examples, or I will assume you just made it up. Scum-SnB is timid and doesn't push his reads AT ALL. The only exception I can think of is how we went up against Oats in Sicilian (think it was Sicilian), which he almost certainly did to emulate his town meta at the time of policy-calling-Oats-scum. Wouldn't you say he's been pretty timid and not pushing his reads this game...?
nope
#killrisen2013
i'll push something.
Risen day 1 chose easy targets, entered the thread with a scummy-as-fuck post that made a huge list of reads based on bad arguments and attacking bad play instead of scum play, and spent the rest of the day not pushing anything and shooting one-liners all over the place. clearly scum.
Risen after day 1 made a case on sharrant that had one decent point. he then proceeded to spend the rest of the day tunneling sharrant and attacking acro and myself for connection cases with sharrant, while ignoring sharrant's responses to his case and anything other people said about it. clearly scum.
he's a much better lynch than i am.
On August 16 2013 02:02 Clarity_nl wrote:
Acro, especially his d3 and onwards is just a shitstorm. The major similarity is the questions he asks. Maybe from reading his filter it doesn't come across, but most of them were completely useless. Either the answer was readily available for those who looked or the answer was gonna be useless regardless.
That is your main problem with rayn is it not?
btw, snb just said his scum meta is to push oats, and now acro just said his town meta is to push oats.
I don't believe in either one since that would be a terrible thing to do, push one person consistently as a particular alignment, but why the difference?
when i'm town i tend to think oats is scum because he asks stupid questions and does a lot of things that don't contribute to the thread's finding scum, but he posts a lot and pays a lot of attention. it always makes me think he's just doing it to have useless thread presence.
when i'm scum i tend to say oats is scum because it's an easy way to match my town meta.
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On August 16 2013 02:22 Mocsta wrote:
SnB.. gimme a read on johnnywup pl0x
k
1. he's posted way less than i have. does he have a meta that lets him get away with this? cause i'm pretty sure that i've had some of the lurkiest town games in recent tlmafia history but everyone still wants to kill me fore it.
2. 1.25 pages out of his 4 are trivia talk. excitement/activity disparity before getting his alignment? maybe not, cause being excited about trivia doesn't necessarily mean being excited about playing mafia. still, worth thinking about and means he only actually has 2.75 pages of real filter.
3. rest of page 2 of his filter is talking about setup stuff, specifically whether or not to reveal house names. quick glance at the context of this post reveals that the rayn/onegu and me/clarity things had already been well underway, but he doesn't comment on them at all. okay, he says he's reading the thread, maybe he will comment later?
oh wait no. his next post is defending himself after he was attacked for talking about third party or something. As is the rest of page 3 of his filter. okay, i am focusing on defending myself as well, maybe he also was a leading lynch candidate and thought he should, as a townie, do his best not to get mislynched? oh wait no, he had zero votes, one person said he was scum.
4. for bonus points:
On August 09 2013 06:48 johnnywup wrote:ok bookmark this post if you want + Show Spoiler [list of house members] +
House Tyrell:
Kushm4sta
johnnywup
Sharrant
Acrofales
House Greyjoy
raynpelikoneet
FirmTofu
Nachomamma8
Risen
House Stark
strongandbig
Clarity_nl
Oatsmaster
Vivax
House Lannister
iamperfection
Xatalos
Grackaroni
Gumshoe
House Baratheon
Chromatically
Koshi
S0lstice
Dandel Ion
House Martell
Oberyn
jrkirby
yamato77
Onegu
note, this is on the third page (out of 4) of his filter, it's not starting the game out. he's doing this instead of reads, not before good reads can be made.
5. Oh then on page 4, he starts martyring? Sorry bro you don't get to martyr when you don't even have votes on you, and when you haven't made a single scumread. You get to martyr when you've spent two hours arguing with people attacking you while they ignore your cases and reads.
6. for more bonus points:
On August 12 2013 18:13 johnnywup wrote:
Oh yeah can I remind people to vote yamato77 and not yamato. There was a situation in NWM where an action didn't go on because the name was misspelt, and i don't want that to happen here.
7. okay now we have some reads finally, on the last page of his filter, for the first time all game:
On August 13 2013 11:46 johnnywup wrote:
i am indeed here and think that ace, jrkirby, yamato, kush, sharrant are scum. ace is being useless and town ace is never useless. jrkirby seems pretty obvious. yamato basically claimed scum. kush is either trolling as town or scum.
on sharrant: he PMed acro that he was a cop during d1 it sounds like. makes no sense as town, obviously. but lets just say that town sharrant has a huge town read on acro...except for the fact that he lied who he was going to check in case acro was scum. you wouldn't do that if you had a town read on acro...so sharrant must have been thinking acro was null/scum. if sharrant thought acro was scum/null, why would he PM him at all? it makes no sense from town, like others have said. If sharrant was scum then he would know acro was town (or scum, I guess...). The problem here is he doesn't know acros role...but since they're agreeing on a target he doesn't have to worry about being blocked or anything, I guess. I dunno, it just seems to make a bit more sense as scum, but I really think it's just stupid from sharrants part as either town or scum >_> still think he's scum though. was an ez bus for sharrant to gain cred from, but somewhat scumslipped. acro doesn't think he's scum I think and he's the one who exchanged PMs with him, but from an outsiders POV it looks bad for sharrant @_@ I know I'm not saying anything new but this is the main reason why I think sharrant is scum.
also for the record I haven't received any PMs from kush or sharrant since forever. I haven't been sending any to anyone besides acro.
oh wait, we have ace (lurker) jkirby (lurker) yamato (redcheck) kush (lurker) sharrant (basically rewrites risen's case). yeah it would be nice if these were real reads that could make me think you are town.
8. later that page:
On August 14 2013 17:42 johnnywup wrote:Sorry my Internets being really dumb. mocsta, i had a post that I was going to post about why I thought risen/Koshi is scum, but it boils down to this: Sharrant has a good case on Koshi, I'll let him post it himself. Risen is trying to lynch the guy that gave us scum for free. It seems unlikely to be a bus to me because Yamato wasn't even really in the limelight and no one would give their scum buddy away when they're not even being scrutinized (I think..I've never played as scum). Like, sharrant is the one person who actually gave us scum on a platter, and risen wants to lynch him. What? And if any of you want to point out me agreeing with risens case, yes I changed my mind because I actually thought about it more and I liked it less and less. I'm pretty convinced sharrant is town. Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 16:21 Mocsta wrote:
Clarity
Regarding onegu
Here's a stupid thing.. take it as u want
That house list before the night post. He was meant to pm that to me.. instead he posted in the thread.
Anyways. He pms going sorry. I'm going to be modkilled what do I do.
I suggested apologise to Dr.p and edit out.
Anyways. If this guy was a scummer. I imagine first course of action is to go to qt... Not pm me.
Weak heuristic I know. So take it as u want.
Disagree that first action would be to go to qt. what would that accomplish at all? If anything the fact he wasn't mod killed makes me think he's more likely scum because mods would be less likely to modkill scum. I know that's not a case but it's something to maybe consider.
lol. lynch risen for wanting to lynch sharrant. okay you totes didn't call for that the day before.
9. COUNTERPOINT: he says
On August 10 2013 06:39 johnnywup wrote:ok im gonna reply to stuff directed at me as I'm going through the thread but literally lol rayn you can't be serious Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 01:25 raynpelikoneet wrote:
johnnywup - There are two things why i think johnnywup is mafia. The first one is his overly defensive stance on his 3p thing. When being questioned about that in thread, his first comment is "other people did not find that scummy". That´s really going overboard if you are town, why would you be more interested to tell people that other people did not find you scummy rather than if they thought you were right or wrong and how did you end up in the conclusion? Another thing that stands out is johnnywup´s house member list. In itself list posts are bad, but this is worse. He hasn´t even put a single bit off thought into the lise (notice him not realizing in which house Vivax/Gumshoe are). Scummy as fuck.
I'm defensive. Especially day 1. You should know that from NWM. Literally every single game I've played of mafia I've been accused of being mafia day 1. It's just what I'm used to at this point so of course I'm defensive. I care what people think about me because, well, I don't want to be lynched? That should be obvious. 2nd part is literally lol. It took a bit of effort trying to consolidate that. I had to look through almost everyones filter and try and find connections. When it was all done I couldn't find any connection for Gumshoe and Vivax. Go through everyones filter yourself and try and find what house they're in before the time that I posted that list. I literally couldn't find it. It was difficult putting together that list. And you say list posts are bad, yet people were literally asking for one because they wanted to know who's in what house at a glance. So I put one together. How do either of those things point towards me being mafia, at all?
So I looked at nuclear winter, like he said. it's true that he was under attack day 1. However, there are a few differences:
(1) people were actually voting him. this one is pretty important, there's a difference between being defensive when you're a realistic lynch candidate and being defensive when one or two people call you scum.
(2) he didn't only defend. He also attacked - he made a case on waveofshadow and tried to get people to vote wos instead of him. he didn't just quibble with people attacking him.
(3) He did other stuff too - he asked people questions that were relevant to scumhunting, and there was none of this filler/policy/rules posting he's been doing this game. he talked much more about game-related items.
Seriously, read his nuclear winter filter and compare it to his play this game, there's a clear difference imo.
And for more bonus points, well after the end of his "defensive" day 1 and after the pressure (which was super weak to begin with) is turned off, we get this:
On August 11 2013 16:50 johnnywup wrote:
im not very useful right now tbh.
another reason I thought acro would be a good lord is because of lord PMs. Since a lot of people are thinking acro is scum I thought that being able to PM him directly would help people get stronger reads and be able to make stronger cases against him.
lol
TLDR
Here's what I see in johnnywup's filter:
1. very bad filler to content ratio. he posts a lot without much evidence that he's trying to figure out peoples' alignments.
2. no reads until day 3! lol
3. spending an inordinate amount of time defending himself against very weak attacks. i know this might seem hypocritical but there are two differences: he wasn't at risk of dying to the lynch that he was defending against, whereas I very much am, and defending himself was all he had done in the game whereas I have at least made cases and pushed people.
4. clear difference between how he defends himself and how he interacts with the thread in this game and in his previous game, nuclear winter mafia. That game there were clear posts in the thread that you could point to and say "this is a read" or "this is a legitimate attempt to figure out someone's alignment." This game, not so much.
So mocsta, thanks for getting me to read his filter. I think he's scum.
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On August 16 2013 02:51 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 02:38 Risen wrote:
I'd rather kill Vivax over SnB, folks. Too much willingness to kill SnB and he has literally had like 0 defenders the entire game. Lot of Vivax apologists, though. Might be a product of the game format. I think 5 of the 6 lords currently are likely town. That doesn't mean I think one of them specifically is scum but the votes are all town. The reason I've defended vivax a bit really is because his n1 pushing of yamato. At one point he told me he had convinced snb that yamato would be a good shot, and he wanted me to ask snb who he'd think was a good shot, to see if he'd mention yamato. When I did, snb said "I'm just going along with iamp's plan of shooting gumshoe" without giving his own opinion. When I pressed and said something like "so you're claiming no responsibility in the outcome? btw vivax told me you agreed on yamato" snb said "yeah, I do agree with the plan, can't change it now since it's night so am shooting gumshoe, but yamato wouldn't be a bad shot" Lots of paraphrasing to hopefully that made sense. I'm not saying it because I believe that makes snb scummy, I'm saying it because I believe it makes vivax more likely to be town. I have had a bunch of interactions with both players and I believe that they can't both be scum together. I think snb is scummier than vivax. I wanna kill snb. If snb keeps contributing like he has today (I liked the dandel post) I might be willing to yolo lynch dandel, though.
i'll quote my own pm that you're referring to about the NKs.
I was gone when they were deciding on the plan so I just went along with it. (1)
There is more to their plan than just shooting gumshoe (2)
I'll take responsibility though, I read his filter before I shot him and I decided that he was a good target. (3)
I still think Yamato is a decent be for scum btw.
Also: I don't want to be lord tomorrow. I will run again to be lord d3 but I will not be active tomorrow and need to re-earn the obvitown-ness I showed n0 (4)
Who else would you want to be lord?
Commentary:
(1) i didn't want to not follow the plan when I hadn't said anything about it before the night phase started. Fucking up something that town had decided could have confused the town, screwed with the intention of the plan, etc
(2) Here I was referring to the part where we each have specific time slots to shoot during. The idea was to see who died after how many shots, and i thought people might be basing later decisions off of the assumption that i had gone along with the plan.
(3) I stand by this part. I read his filter and decided, if we're using house KP for lurker shots then he was a very good target.
(4) obviously i failed at re-earning town reads TT.
One other thing: during n2 the only PM vivax sent me about Yamato was basically "what do you think of my case on koshi and oberyn's case on yamato." then in the same PM he asked me a few other questions about my reads on acro and onegu. But he didn't actually try to persuade me at all. IDK what he told you about that exchange but what actually persuaded me on yamato were the points other people made in the thread about how we had to drag reads and contribution out of him like pulling teeth, plus the fact that I thought his push on me was very bad and made me angry at him.
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EPT
