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On August 19 2013 01:24 raynpelikoneet wrote:
omfg. Am i really this bad expressing myself or waht the fuck is going on here?
Amongst other reasons i think he is scum because he posted the list without acctually putting a single thought on it. Having the list in the first place as you said is an indication that he has been keeping track of in which house do people belong to. He contradicts this behavior by not actually keeping track of something he finds important (by missing Vivax/gumshoe). Posting or not posting the list has nothing to do with that as it was asked to do.
After that you said him missing Vivax/gumshoe makes him more likely to be town, i disagree and showed you what could the scum motivation mean. Him missing them in itself is not alignment indicative, but when you add that with the fact jwup has been keeping track of this important thing and then not actually doing so it is scummy.
He posted the list because someone asked for the list, it's not alignment indicative.
What you're saying is this, yes?:
The fact that he apparently paid enough attention to have constructed the list either makes him caring town or scum.
Since he hasn't done anything other than that, that might be considered scummy.
Here's the thing, rayn, I already said all of this.
Maybe what we can learn from that post though is that either he's a townie that's engaged and was taking notes so basically had the list ready, or he's scum and the list was in his scum qt so he just copy pasted. Johnny hasn't felt engaged in this game, although he's said he has been at least once, so maybe that's scummy?
I don't know how you manage to twist the fact that he's missing vivax and gumshoe on the list into somehow being scum, that's just dumb.
I refuse to dig for the post that says which house gumshoe is in, but I bet it's easy to miss.
As I've said multiple times, I'm not against the lynch. snb asked me what I thought of his case and I explained why most points are null, rather than scum oriented. Why must you always go 10 rounds with everyone rayn, it's so damn annoying.
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On August 08 2013 15:16 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 14:53 iamperfection wrote:
Im going to let my black sheep some time in the thread see if he does anything.
I would love to stay and chat but its late
Doesn't that defeat the purpose of waiting to see if I do anything?  Hello all, I am the aforementioned "black sheep", My house is Lannister- Xatalos Gumshoe Iamperfection Grackaroni So far Xatalos has been very aggressive and has tunneled both me and Gumshoe. he put lots of effort into a very long mayor post and has been pming a lot more than he had to so by effort alone I think he is town. And he has annoyed the crap out of me and I think generally people who annoy you are town. Gumshoe has seemed to have genuine frustration in his responses to Xatalos' tunnel at the start of the game. (from the excerpts I've seen). he pmed me afterwards recommending me to vote for Iamp and was suspicious of Xata during a time when I would have percieved his actions to be more town-like. I don't think he faked his emotion and am leaning town on him. Iamperfection I am null on. We've talked to each other less than I have talked to anyone else and probably less than he has talked to anybody else as well. He believes that I have been apathetic towards the game but quite frankly I think I've been putting in plenty of effort. I voted him in the early phase of the game because he said he wanted to use the lord's pm's to pressure people for reads. Afterwards I tried to tell Xata and Gumshoe that I was less confident in him and would rather elect somebody else but it was clear that neither was interested in switching.
His first post, the first post with house members. Not really hard to miss
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So I am actually up for a Risen lynch.
Clarity, you think Risen is town. Why?
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Because people seem to pay zero attention to why people post what they do rather than what they do post which i think is not the right way to play mafia.
For example Onegu's last post. Hell half of the points don't even say why Grackaroni is scum. What's the point of the post?
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I don't really care.
I feel like rayn's babysitter.
Onegu not doing crap, active lurking, addressing the most useless point in my whole post.
How about we just lynch them?
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On August 19 2013 01:44 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Because people seem to pay zero attention to why people post what they do rather than what they do post which i think is not the right way to play mafia.
Someone asks for a houselist, johnny posts a houselist. snb calls it scummy. I call it null.
Then you say if it was town he would have known where vivax and gumshoe would have been, as if he wouldn't have known as scum.
Here's the town reasoning to post the list: someone asked, so you contribute
Here's the scum reasoning to post the list: someone asked and you might look like you're contributing
UNLESS YOU CAN TELL ME WHY IT'S #2, JUST STFU ABOUT IT
Like, I'm so tired of this discussion holy fuck. I dunno how you can be so logically inept yet still yell at everyone else but "not playing the right way"
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On August 19 2013 01:48 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2013 01:44 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Because people seem to pay zero attention to why people post what they do rather than what they do post which i think is not the right way to play mafia. Someone asks for a houselist, johnny posts a houselist. snb calls it scummy. I call it null. Then you say if it was town he would have known where vivax and gumshoe would have been, as if he wouldn't have known as scum. Here's the town reasoning to post the list: someone asked, so you contribute Here's the scum reasoning to post the list: someone asked and you might look like you're contributing UNLESS YOU CAN TELL ME WHY IT'S #2, JUST STFU ABOUT IT Like, I'm so tired of this discussion holy fuck. I dunno how you can be so logically inept yet still yell at everyone else but "not playing the right way"
rayn his point is that because Johnny knew Vivax is scum, and johnny knew that Vivax was in Stark because it was in the scum QT. Johnny was afraid to put Vivax in house Stark in his list because he could get flak for it if it wasn't said in the thread. But it was said in the thread, and a town Johnny would have seen it.
Something in those lines.
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On August 19 2013 01:51 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2013 01:48 Clarity_nl wrote:On August 19 2013 01:44 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Because people seem to pay zero attention to why people post what they do rather than what they do post which i think is not the right way to play mafia. Someone asks for a houselist, johnny posts a houselist. snb calls it scummy. I call it null. Then you say if it was town he would have known where vivax and gumshoe would have been, as if he wouldn't have known as scum. Here's the town reasoning to post the list: someone asked, so you contribute Here's the scum reasoning to post the list: someone asked and you might look like you're contributing UNLESS YOU CAN TELL ME WHY IT'S #2, JUST STFU ABOUT IT Like, I'm so tired of this discussion holy fuck. I dunno how you can be so logically inept yet still yell at everyone else but "not playing the right way" rayn his point is that because Johnny knew Vivax is scum, and johnny knew that Vivax was in Stark because it was in the scum QT. Johnny was afraid to put Vivax in house Stark in his list because he could get flak for it if it wasn't said in the thread. But it was said in the thread, and a town Johnny would have seen it. Something in those lines.
Which is, I say again, the dumbest thing ever.
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Clarity i do not get your argument.
You are saying johnnywup put effort in the game by keeping notes on who is in what house. That is certainly not true as i have pointed out. Why is this so hard for you?
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On August 19 2013 01:58 raynpelikoneet wrote:
##Vote: johnnywup
Wagon of Justice!
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I don't agree with Rayn's reasoning btw, it isn't alignment indicative. I just think that by now Johnny would show some semblance of an interest towards scum hunting if he was town.
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I cover all angles in one concise post and then rayn shows up and makes the game two pages longer with no gain. Saying things I already covered in my one post, making a dumb statement about johnny being scum for absurd reasons.
I even explain TWICE how there's no fucking reason to continue going on about it, but I guess that message didn't come across.
Congratulations rayn, two games in a row you've made a daycycle completely unbearable.
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So Xatalos is giving the hardest soft defenses I've ever seen. He knows too much. He's either scum defending town for that juicy cred, or scum defending scum buddies who just need one more night of triple kills.
How incredibly interesting is it that every one of my push targets has turned out to be town. Let's look over my pushes this game.
+ Show Spoiler +
Entrance push
Oats, DI, Xata, Grack. Only one is flipped, and he was blue.
Next up we have Clarity. Hasn't flipped.
Then FT, flipped town, though I wanted to shoot him, not lynch him.
I make a post detailing about how town should use their shots at night, get called an idiot, then we use that schedule system.
More Clarity push.
Rayn pushes don't count since I've been trying to keep him alive for a long time now.
I adjust my view on Oats, DI, Xata moving them all to unsure. Grack Clarity stay scum reads.
More Rayn push that doesn't count, was a stupid plan.
Sharrant case, had a hole in it. Thinking back hole isn't so big, why is town cop talking to someone he's unsure of. Sharrant claims it's just a bad play on his part. Red check on green mocsta says otherwise.
I say lynch needs to be yamato ("confirmed" red) shot needs to be Sharrant. Sharrant hasn't flipped.
Xatalos defends Shar with exact logic scum supporting another scum's bus would.
Xatalos asks if he's more wishy washy than Acro, he isn't. He has supriginly strong convictions for someone who's supposed to be town and not know anyone's alignment.
SHAR TUNNEL OF AWESOME
I can't read, so the SHAR TUNNEL OF AWESOME continues chugging along not knowing it's running on tracks made of paper.
Call out Vivax for rehashing my shit. He flips scum. Note I've been pushing Vivax in PM land, I think. Can't remember whether I pushed Vivax there or thread first. SnB gets pushed as well here. He hasn't flipped.
SHAR TUNNEL OF AWESOME turns into RISEN JUST TOPPED PREVIOUS GoT BADNESS LEVEL ABORT THREAD in regards to Xatalos scum slip. Get demoralized, drop pressure on him.
More martyring by me because I was being a little bitch.
I'm not a bully, I just don't trust Rayn 100%. No townie would with someone who's unconfirmed. (See that Shar?)
Call out DI for being useless since early game. Not really a push.
Xata makes pretty bad connection that's really easy to defend against in a thread that has so much useless posting. Xata softest push NA.
Xata makes point about SnB not scumhunting right after SnB makes a case.
I actually had a reason for pushing Vivax, Xata doesn't think I had one, but I said Vivax knows too much and I was right. SnB going apeshit b/c no one will talk to him about his case on me or Vivax. I let him know I'll address his concerns with me and he can sit on my responses.
I explain my read on Vivax. Dude knows too much. He did.
OH GOD SHARRANT TUNNEL OF FAIL WHY. Chrom point out hole in case. Much sorrow is had. I guess I was reading Shar's filter with the mindset of "this guy is scum no town would talk to Acro" and my brain made the shit fit. Reading comprehension 101 classes should be given in TL Mafia.
Talking to Mocsta about rayn.
Call out Koshi because who's supporting my case at that point? It's actually "believable" that town cop went to Acro at this point. Koshi hasn't flipped.
Call out thread for attacking SnB while saying Vivax has way too many apologists. Vote Vivax. He flips red.
Reminiscing on the times I was too crazy as town to be believed to be town and how if I was only better at this game I'd be better. Bads gonna bad, though. vOv
Xatalos has a hard on trying to get me to shoot kush, I tell him I won't. Kush flips green.
I tell thread I want Xata dead. I make a PM land push to get Xata lynched after forgetting about Vivax. Immediately correct it saying Vivax should be the lynch, but Xata really needs to die. Xata hasn't flipped.
Make post about how my reads have been flat out wrong because I've bought into the whole "Risen's reads are all wrong" hype in thread without realizing that just about everyone I push lives.
More Xata call outs.
Grack defends someone like he knows that someone is town.
We come to today.
Flipped town
Oats
FT
Flipped scum
Vivax
Unflipped
Clarity
DI
Xata
Grack
Sharrant
Acro
Koshi
So you want to explain to me how you know who's town on the unflipped list, Xata?
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So not only are you saying he's scum, you're saying he's scum who hasn't lied about a single townread?
Or you're saying that because he has townreads he's scum?
Why are you analyzing your own play midgame? Yes it's VERY interesting that you've pushed townies all game. Pretty sure most of us were aware of that, if you don't recall everyone yelling at you day 1, and all the other days too pretty much.
There's also no such thing as a "hard soft defense". It's just a hard defense. Do you think scum is comfortable giving out so many definitive reads? Xata is town.
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So about Risen:
1) Risen his opening post. Xatalos, DI, Oats, Clarity and Grack were scum.
It was instantly seen as so bad that Risen gained townpoints. But even though everybody saw that it was bad Risen went on bout it for 3 days straight. Only to go soft after Vivax after that.
2) Risen made a case vs Sharrant, went on about it for 2 days while also softpushing Vivax as second candidate.
3) Risen flipflopped on everybody. Yelled rayn was 100% scum, he yelled that Xatalos scumslipped. Voted on rayn, Xatalos and StrongandBig.
4) Risen eventually voted on Vivax saying that it was a good lynch and that people were hardefending Vivax. He said the same thing when he was trying to get Sharrant lynched. However, Risen never followed up. Why? Maybe it didn't follow the scumplan or he didn't want to put himself in the spotlight?
5) Chrom said Sharrant gave Acro 2 choices to pick out and from this point Risen his case was suddenly null, even more Sharrant was suddenly the towniest fucker allive. I got flak for saying the case was still valid, and Chrom was Risen his best buddy for pointing out the mistake.
6) Risen shooting rayn is just trying to get the House for him alone. There is really no good reason to shoot rayn, unless you think he is scum, but then why give him the Lord position? I don't remember if he shot me the first time he was Lord, but I think he did. Like, seriously? Risen has shot me and rayn...
7) Last post from Risen is saying Onegu is scum that is now owning a House. ________________________________________________________
How many really townie things has Risen done? I can't recall any.
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Oh Risen is back. This might be fun!
Comments?
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On August 19 2013 02:19 Clarity_nl wrote:
So not only are you saying he's scum, you're saying he's scum who hasn't lied about a single townread?
Or you're saying that because he has townreads he's scum?
Why are you analyzing your own play midgame? Yes it's VERY interesting that you've pushed townies all game. Pretty sure most of us were aware of that, if you don't recall everyone yelling at you day 1, and all the other days too pretty much.
There's also no such thing as a "hard soft defense". It's just a hard defense. Do you think scum is comfortable giving out so many definitive reads? Xata is town.
Except the point of my post is that how can anyone know who I've pushed all game, there's so much unflipped........ So it isn't very interesting that I've pushed townies all game. As a matter of fact, if we lynched who I wanted lynched every day it would go Clarity lynched d1, Yamato d2, Shar and then Vivax d3. Two unflipped, two scum.
So tell me again about how my pushes have been all town this game. Oh wait, they fuckign haven't been.
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On August 19 2013 02:25 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2013 02:19 Clarity_nl wrote:
So not only are you saying he's scum, you're saying he's scum who hasn't lied about a single townread?
Or you're saying that because he has townreads he's scum?
Why are you analyzing your own play midgame? Yes it's VERY interesting that you've pushed townies all game. Pretty sure most of us were aware of that, if you don't recall everyone yelling at you day 1, and all the other days too pretty much.
There's also no such thing as a "hard soft defense". It's just a hard defense. Do you think scum is comfortable giving out so many definitive reads? Xata is town. Except the point of my post is that how can anyone know who I've pushed all game, there's so much unflipped........ So it isn't very interesting that I've pushed townies all game. As a matter of fact, if we lynched who I wanted lynched every day it would go Clarity lynched d1, Yamato d2, Shar and then Vivax d3. Two unflipped, two scum. So tell me again about how my pushes have been all town this game. Oh wait, they fuckign haven't been.
You're the one who said it. Okay I understand what you're trying to say now.
Apparently xata said you've been pushing townies all game, and you think he scumslipped because he doesn't know the unflipped players' alignment.
I really wish you guys would just say what you mean in a way that's easy to understand.
I think this is a dumb assumption, from where I'm standing you've been pushing townies all game too. When I say that that doesn't mean "you've never pushed scum this game" as much as it means "you've pushed a lot of obvious townies"
Think you're taking it too literal.
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EPT
