EPTGoT Mafia: Lords and Liars - Page 2
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
i've been camping with my girlfriend for the weekend. the limited activity was because (1) bad cell reception and more importantly (2) lack of interest in mafia when camping with my girlfriend. I see that people are calling me scum because my activity dropped off, all i'll say to them for now is that if you think occasional inactivity is something I only show in scum games then you're either scum or lazy as fuck. I want to talk specifically to what vivax said about my pms during night 1. It's true that I was very malleable as regards where to send the KP. The plan from iamperfection and rayn was made while I was gone, and I hadn't read the thread at that point. I sent in the KP after reading gumshoe's filter and deciding that he was a good enough choice for a lurker shot, and I sent it as soon as I finished reading the thread because I was something like half an hour late for my assigned time slot, and didn't want to fuck up their plan for sending in the KP sequentially. But anyway, it seems the reason most people have been calling me scum isn't for anything I did, but for stopping paying attention to the game over the weekend. So the best way to shut that down is to start caring/paying attention, no? | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
(1) The big entry post - I talked some about this before, but it's total bullshit. He attacked Oats, Yamato, and DI for playing anti-town, shitting up the thread, fighting over nothing, etc. The problem is, this is exactly what they do EVERY GAME. Oats argues over stupid things, Yamato is touchy as fuck, and DI is the most anti-town town player possible. They are the very definition of easy targets for scum to attack exactly like Risen did - but Risen should have known better than to call them scum and push for their lynch off of it. (aside: On August 09 2013 03:27 Risen wrote:Oats is scum, Yamato is null The funny thing is that prior to looking into the filters I thought Yamato would come across as more scummy than Oats, and gave kush a pass while reading through because of that. Connection theory! Reads like scum not wanting to either attack their buddy or directly defending them. Although Yamato is super touchy, it is more out of character for him to take a fight so far in the fucking-the-thread direction than it is for Oats to do so, and Risen doesn't actually give any reasons why he thinks Yamato is a better scum target than Oats, he just asserts that his filter looks better.)In that post, he also calls Xatalos scum based on what boils down in part to a connection theory with his bullshit read on DI. Connection theories with unflipped (or un-scumclaimed) players? Okay, can be done by town, but shouldn't, another easy way for scum to generate reads. Another thing - just look at that post in general. It's huge, so he must be town right? (just ask austinmcc!) Nope, wrong! A large part of the post is stream-of-consciousness, much easier to write than an actual structured case. Also it's a list-post, shorter reads on large numbers of people, easy for scum to do and looks big. Most of the reads in the post are "easy reads" for scum to make, attacking people for playing in an anti-town fashion rather than for actually being scum and attacking other people for invented reasons. A lot of sound and fury, signifying nothing. The rest of his posting shows much less effort put into analyzing the game. An example is how Clarity is still his preferred lynch target in his final posts before N1, despite a lot more information being put into the thread and a lot more public discussion among the principals of that situation. He hasn't made any real cases since his first post, and he hasn't actually followed up on his DI, xatalos, or grackaroni reads. From the clear and huge difference in effort between his first post and the rest of his filter, it's clear that his first post was very much constructed and careful, which imo is a scum thing to do; additionally, the fact that he was careful and put effort into just writing that post makes it even more suspect that his reads in it were so obviously bad in such a specifically scummy way. So yeah, what I want to hear next is from people who've been in PMs with Risen, whether he's given more to them in terms of reads, cases, and indications that he's actually thinking carefully about the game than he has been in the thread. | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
On August 13 2013 01:41 Acrofales wrote: Yet another paragon of useful contribution. After reading 45 pages you must have something to say about the CONTENT of those pages, no? The Redwyne fleet is ready to sail north and stab you in the face. typing bro i see no reason to talk abotu the yamato situation since he claimed scum and we're killing him. cool that sharrant chose a good target. i thought some about shooting yamato but since i didnt do it and didn't actually push him it doesn't matter. if you're trying to decide whether i'm scum, make sure you think a little bit about his push on me, also, and explain how we could be teammates before you shoot me. i mean obviously its possible that he was trying to bus me, but i would argue scum would be unlikely to bus their teammate who won a lordship and then was not going to be active enough to defend himself until after a full round of vig shots. i see no real reason to talk about the oberyn fakeclaim situation either. actually, here's something - i would say that the scum roleblocker may not have claimed because he knew oberyn and onegu were lying (either onegu or oberyn being scum in that case) but it's also possible that they were inactive. it seems unlikely that they would have called their bluff completely, given that jk is such a good fakeclaim for that scenario and that it was mentioned in the thread, but that can't be ruled out either. so i don't think we can be like "omg someone leaked the plan lynch into oberyn and onegu". That said, it does make them deserving of some extra scrutiny as compared to any random person in the game, i guess. so yeah there you go, a paragraph where i don't really say anything, happy? | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
On August 13 2013 01:07 Oatsmaster wrote: He didnt discuss the shot with me as far as I can see through our PMs. He did say 1 interesting thing though, he said he didnt want to be lord because he needed to get his obv town status back. And that he wants to be lord day 3. thats not actually what i said, i said i didnt want to be lord because i wasn't going to be active enough during the day phase (aka, i was going to be gone yesterday). otherwise that's pretty much correct though. | ||
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strongandbig
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strongandbig
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strongandbig
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On August 13 2013 03:20 Oberyn wrote: You might want to edit out that PM if it is a direct quote. you can quote yourself right? | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
On August 13 2013 03:26 raynpelikoneet wrote: Do you really think his first reads post could come from scum!Risen? Basically because of that. yes i do and i said why did you read my post? | ||
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strongandbig
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strongandbig
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On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: not for calling out anti-town behavior. For calling people "scum" because they're playing badly as town, not because of actual behaviors that indicate they are scum. Yes i read your post. First you say Risen is scum for calling out anti-town behavior (Oats/yamato/DI). On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: Sounds good. You are also saying he should know their meta. Afaik the guy has had a long break from mafia (correct me if i am wrong here). People (aside me) tend to forget how people play in games, just look at Titanic where i was trying to confirm Oats in a way or another from the game he played a couple of weeks ago. Didn´t work. So calling out anti-town behavior without looking into players last games makes him mafia? well, if he really had forgotten everything about those players then my "should have known better" point wouldn't be correct. I don't think it's that easy to forget things like "this player gets in fights" or especially to forget dandel ion. but anyway, even if that is the case - there's still the fact that an experienced player would, if they were town, know that townies get in fights and fuck up the thread too, and that spamming doesn't make you scum. Come on rayn, making cases against bad play rather than scum-motivated play is scum 101 and that's what risen was doing here, whether or not he knew anyone's meta. On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: that's why this was a minor point, it's something that both town and scum do but scum are more likely to do it than townies are. Then there is a connection case. You said townies can do that too. That´s right. Did you check if Risen does that as town? As scum? At least you didn´t tell that in your case. If you are gonna tell Risen is scum for something both town/mafia do, at least provide some evidence. On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: i never said it did, i was trying to explain why it doesn't make him town. Huge post - makes him scum how? On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: duh. if someone is choosing easy targets and making easy cases against them, it's because that person is not actually trying to find real scum but just trying to look like they are. "Easy reads" for anti town behavior - makes him scum how? On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: compare it to the entire rest of his filter. he obviously spent more time on that post than on anything else he's done - it's much longer, but also (for example) he uses quotes more (the only place he uses quotes as examples rather than things to respond to). and yet he spends all that effort making terrible, scummy reads. How is Risen´s post "constructed and careful"? On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: The only thing that holds water in your post is that he has not explained / pursued his reads. Fuck, a half of the playerbase doesn´t even seem to have reads. If you think Risen´s reads are bad, why don´t you question him on them? Instead you want to hear from people who have been in contact with him?? Why? Why not from him? i want to hear from people who have been in contact with him because maybe he's been putting more effort into his reads and the game outside of the thread. those people can give me information that i can't get from reading his filter. i fully expect him to answer my case but i shouldn't have to ask for it specifically, should i? | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
On August 13 2013 04:59 Acrofales wrote: Oh, I'm suspecting him. There's just no point in jumping the gun and yelling HE'S A BLACKFYRE and waving my arms when there are still a minimum of 80 hours before we can do anything about it. the point is persuading the lords who to lordshoot, that is less than 80 hours away right? thats why im still going on about risen atm anyway | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
On August 13 2013 05:42 Risen wrote: this is actually a decent point imo, by far the best point in this post and something we should actually make sharrant explain.... How this reads to me... "Oh, I wasn't expecting to be revealed as a cop even though I told someone I couldn't possibly know was town I was a cop thereby potentially opening myself up to a kill from scum negating my entire role! In case he was mafia I lied and said I would target kush right after explaining to the thread that kush was initially a target and could possibly be scum and as I don't know acro is town he could very well have mafia kill me for that!" If that isn't the worst explanation of something I have ever seen in a mafia game I don't know what is. He later says a scum Acro might have been trying to push him off Kush, but why not just kill you instead? Why doesn't scum look at that and say, "Well he claims to be one shot, but what if he can actually reuse the ability?" then kill him. A town cop doesn't not see this possibility. This only comes up when a scum team member trying to emulate a cop slips up. | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
2. Vivax misstating the case against him. When I get to my computer I'll explain or maybe copy some pms I sent to clarity and oats. 3. Risen! Kill with fire. Just cause he had one food point on sharrant doesn't make him town, read my first case on him for the reasons why his filter makes him scum. @onegu fuck you how have I disappeared. It's been night phase when we were not allowed to post. Derplord. @vivax read the thread koshis argument is that when mocsta calls koshi scum for attacking jrkirby's filter, it's a scummy chainsaw defense because mocsta should be able to see how onjectively scummy jrkirby's filter looks regardless of what mocsta/jrkirby's actual alignment is. | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
at least 1 of those people (oats) were not going to be lords today cause we elected clarity. It seems likely scum was finishing off the people they split KP onto night 1. Makes me think they did not know the hp check before choosing their KP. Killing lords a possible scum tactic to produce confusion among town, disrupt "town circle" of lord pms. Possible that kill on gumshoe really did come from town vig instead of mole giving scum the hp checks. | ||
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strongandbig
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strongandbig
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strongandbig
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On August 14 2013 23:36 Onegu wrote: Grow up you were gone 8 pages before night post, and 8 pages since day post, you havent been around much. Also your overreaction to clairity passing your role name along. And your random vote on me for no reason day one made me feel scum on you. And you got active after people started tomcall you scum, sure it maybe random chance, but with everything else you are scummy to me. the causal connection is that people started calling me scum after i left. obviously once i came back it was going to be after people started calling me scum. and we have like 50 page days, so i missed 8 pages, boo hoo. | ||
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strongandbig
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On August 14 2013 23:57 Xatalos wrote: I agree with this logic actually. Acro as scum wouldn't probably expect to be fooled with the check target (since you already told him you were a Cop) and it would be so much better to frame your target than kill you. In addition, if you told anyone else that you were going to tell Acro, it would cast too much doubt on Acro to kill you then (since there wouldn't really have been any other reason to kill you). yeah agreed this is a more decent reasoning than i'd expected. ofc if scum dont have a framer and acro is scum then you're dead. but that makes two "if your read/setup speculation is wrong" rather than one and i'm more comfortable with accepting this as town reasoning. | ||
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