EPTGoT Mafia: Lords and Liars - Page 13
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
On August 14 2013 16:15 Mocsta wrote: Rayn. I can go into detail of why ft was a bad lynch. But what does this accomplish for town today? Ultimately he flipped town. So your philosophy is flawed already. I find it interesting again how u r choosing to "pressure" me. Lets play along. U think my reads are "I dunno".. ok.. so how come u r not prodding me to understand my mindset My issue with our discourse this cycle is your need to blindly nitpick irrelevant things and defend chromatically.. nowhere are u trying to understand me Personally. I expect more from u if town than the effort u put in with me so farl Yes this helps me figuring out your alignment. One more question, have you followed the game before replacing in? I'll give my conclusion in ~2 hours, now i need a bit more sleep. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
First of all Jrkirby was really scummy. That is something we all know. To be fair that is also something Mocsta can't do anything about it whatever his alignment is so i am not going to go there more than this. Stance on Sharrant: When Mocsta replaces in what is the first thing he does. He calls Sharrant not a good vigi shot based on that he is a lynchbait in every game. This is entirely incorrect. Sharrant was one of the best & strongest town players in LXI andcaught 2 scum in N1. What is Mocsta's read on Sharrant D2: Lynched yamato. Of course I would have liked more activity from him but you get that. I also liked his post on Kushmaster. I disagree with people saying it was poorly timed. Kush was being attacked at the time. Prob worth re-reading who was slamming into him for that. One thing I don’t like about Sharrant, is that I am used to seeing *massive* walls of text from him that are hard to read. Perhaps time is a contributor to this not occurring. Because of that will relegate from firm town to leaning town. This is one of the reads that's incredibly shady. - Mocsta never explains what he liked in Sharrant's post on kushmasta. Sharrant never even explains why his read on kush is as it is, "it is because PM's and i can't really quote them". - Sharrant plays off from his town meta (no massive walls of text that are hard to read - which is btw incorrect), that makes him town? Seems legit! - No mention of lynchbait anymore? Everyone read the Sharrant reads and does this seem like Mocsta really thinks Sharrant is a lynchbait like he said on D2? His stance on me: Has been bugging me all game. Yet several have a strong town read on him. Some due to PMs which I don’t have access to. Im conflicted. Early game is terrible I think; Mid Day2, is relatively pro-town which balances out. Im not experienced with Rayn, but in Sicilian I felt he was town instantly, and not just because of the pardoner claim. Im not getting that vibe at all; early game he was displayed a lot of “forced aggression” and nitpicking. I think he is scum; but would pick him off last and he is the one I am the least confident about. - Who has said they have a townread on me by PM's? Noone afaik. - Why is my early game terrible and mid Day 2 strong? That's another statement never to be explained. - What was the "forced aggression" he is talking about? He never explains it. - I always nitpick, so do other players, how does that make me mafia? In fact, my whole D1 in Sicilian mafia (where he found me town) was nitpicking over Sloosh's shitty comment about PM's. Why did he find me town there? Contradiction. What does Mocsta do after that when i start questioning him? He calls me bad. Of course, what else would you do. He calls everyone bad for lynching FirmTofu who was "clearly just having RL-business" and that some other guy should have definitely been lynched on D1. That's a really easy thing to do, especially when he was not playing in this game at that time. Discredit people for being wrong. When i ask him who should we have lynched and why FT was clearly having RL-business he does not answer me. If you say this kinda stuff you should fucking tell then what would have been the right course of action (as you clearly implied there was better) and why. The fact is Mocsta can't do it, because he is just saying stuff for sake of discrediting people for a mislynch. Other than that he is aggressively attacking me when i call him out for stuff. And he is not attacking me in a way that i am scum. He is attacking me in a way that discredits me because he does not know where i am heading at. Well here is where i am heading at. Mocsta is mafia. Here are btw his other reads. Let's walk through them and see what he says (i left out the one's i am okay with, and the one's that are dead or null for "i don't have a read yet"): Dandle ion Originally read as firm town. Once Ace joined the game, his tone/attitude changed a lot from cocky to submissive. Hard to say whether the lurking was based on IRL issues //Ace//scum. Will stick with a leaning town read. Some unexplained connection to Ace that might change this read. what does that even mean? Sharrant: Already explained. Xatalos Started off well. Seems to be a good mediator. Also handled the RB fake claim quite well. Towards end of D2, started to go off the rails a touch, but this has been commented in the thread. Firm Town. What is the roleblock FAKEclaim he is talking about? And how did Xatalos handle that well? Towards D2 end seems worse, no explanation given other than "this has been commented in the thread". wtf does this read say? nothing. Vivax I liked his first post on Koshi a lot. As at the time I had a scum read on Koshi. Im stuck on Vivax. Since then, I don’t particularly like his posts HOWEVER, I do know for fact he has been very busy outside the game. Its more, Im not sure why he is posting. He seems to be trying to understand the target more; but is not there to follow up. So it becomes pointless, as he does not call them scum either. Again, I want to see more from Vivax regarding iamperfection Day3. Null "Did some townie things then did some scummy things". And now he is defending him. But Chromatically should defend himself instead of me defending him? Chromatically Someone else said it perfectly. “I know Chromatically is posting, but I cant remember what he is saying”.. agree in full. Massive blender.. latest contributions are purely targeting lurkers.. LOL.. this guy is scum for sure. Whole read is based on what someone else said. Mocsta has just read the game and does not remember what Chrom has said. Townie thing: "go read his filter again". What's the conclusion, he brings up that "Chrom has lately targeted lurkers". Weak. Grackaroni, johnnywup, Kushmasta I am not even going to say anything because the read includes a word lynchbait. Being a lynchbait as town does not make you town in this game. Easy way to call scummy people town if you are mafia. Koshi Had a scum read on him early game. Especially as he maintained his tunnel on oats, which just read as forced points. Long absence; followed by a resurgence in posting late Day2. I actualy don’t mind his recent posting. Willing to give him a chance. Again, I want his opinion on people like chromatically/iamperfection. Null to leaning scum. "Did some scummy stuff, then did some townie stuff". Nothing is explained. Strongandbig I don’t get the early plan role thing. But whatevers. Hard guy to read cos of low give a crap factor. I think hes town personally. Cant really pinpoint why though. Overall; I just don’t feel hes been pushing anything… hence town. "Town, but i don't really know why". Okay! Acrofales Flavour is a bitch to read him him; but hes been consistent and breaks out of it when required. This speaks heavily of town. Another town point is, I feel early game he was severely wrong but still had a presence. This reminds me a bit of ??Not Another Dual Mafia?? I have also played with scum Acro, and know he doesn’t have a problem posting in the thread for filler; and trying to drive home points. Its also hard to get a read on Acro because he is so established in the PM land; that we don’t get full context of his position. Personally I would say one of Rayn/Acro is scum. I would lean with Rayn. So will give Acro: Null to leaning town. Another read that says nothing at all, except "hard to read". The last line of this is just lol. Risen Like Iamperfection this guy pounces on opportunities to belittle ppl by calling out bad play. Risen also delurks to do this in such an uncouth manner. Hes in effect promoting such an antitown atmosphere. His reads are completely shite; but I wont call him scum for that. Its mainly the atmosphere he is providing *AND* the timing of his contributions. Another thing to note is that Risen is an TL Mafia Award holder for best scum play. So I would imagine that faking aggression is not difficiult for him if this is his normal style of play. How does Risen promote anti-town atmosphere? Is sharing your reads anti-town? Who is to say Risen is wrong in his reads. All Mocsta says here is "Risen is wrong". Why is the timing of Risen's contributions anti-town? Another not explained thing. The last sentence is weird and i do not know what Mocsta is trying to say with it. That Risen is a chaotic player regardless of alignment? Well how does this make him scum here? TLDR; [x] Jrkirby [x] Contradicts himself in his stance on players (mainly Sharrant) [x] Discredits people who attack him instead of having a reasonable argument (now with Koshi too) [x] Has reads that at first glance seem legit but 90% of them actually do not say anything or are not explained [x] Discredits people for a mislynch. Is not willing to explain why it was bad and has no conclusions about it (why was it bad, who does it incriminate, why, etc). [x] Mafia | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
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On August 14 2013 23:33 Acrofales wrote: So what? Did you just not want to risk your neck by sticking it out and fighting to be lord. Surely Risen's utterly insane behaviour yesterday showed that he is not fit to be lord (although I don't agree with Ser Strongandbig's assessment). Aiming his longships at Sharrant is a sign of insanity, not Blackfyre sympathy, and insane people are less likely to be part of a rebellion, imho. So if you are in fact a loyalist, you'd draw the conclusion that Risen is insane, and he should be deposed as lord. That leaves you as the only alternative. Is Risen so powerhungry? Why did you admit defeat so easily? It seems like a Blackfyre slinking back into the shadows to me. Lets kill Rayn, the Blackfyre pretender kraken! I don't want to get into a fight with my townreads, especially when there are 2 people left in our house. That accomplishes nothing. Even if Risen is scum this is a far better outcome for the town. Deal with it. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
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On August 14 2013 23:59 strongandbig wrote: yeah agreed this is a more decent reasoning than i'd expected. ofc if scum dont have a framer and acro is scum then you're dead. but that makes two "if your read/setup speculation is wrong" rather than one and i'm more comfortable with accepting this as town reasoning. lol, the whole thing Sharrant is saying relies on the fact that there is a framer, and you don't want to setup speculate??!?!?!? | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
On August 15 2013 00:07 Xatalos wrote: Not completely. If there is no framer (possible), then Sharrant might still have told someone else. That means either that person or Acro is scum if Sharrant dies. Much, much more dangerous for Acro than letting Sharrant live (ESPECIALLY when he thought he knew who Sharrant was targeting and maybe it wasn't scum). Then why was Sharrant not roleblocked? Why would roleblocking Sharrant incriminate Acrofales? What makes you think mafia thought you/Clarity/both were more likely to be blue than Sharrant (in case he is town - he was really... i do not know what the English word is.. i felt like he was not telling everything he knew in thread)? After his one shot cop reveal he has continued to be like that. I would really like to hear who is he PMing with besides his house. And for what reasons. Also Xata, what was the sudden change of mind in your read on Acro, and your bullshit attack on me? Also what do you have to say about my case on Mocsta. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
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On August 15 2013 00:11 Xatalos wrote: I actually came to the same conclusion that scum were probably splitting KP between 3 players. Maybe they underestimated the amount of KP needed to kill someone. Also this is WIFOM. If there is a mafia in your house it would look really bad if someone from your house died. We would use a HP check(s) on D2 start to confirm how much KP scum used and where, and make conclusions. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
On August 15 2013 00:17 strongandbig wrote: thats not what i said sharrant's thing relies on him thinking there was a framer. not that there actually was a framer. christ rayn use your head for once. think about something before you make a big deal about it. it was the same with your stupid attack on onegu right from the start, i'm almost starting to think there is something to you being scum. Okay sorry. I totally misread your post. And btw, my attack on Onegu was not stupid, he contradicted himself (in my mind). When he explained that i have never brought that up after. Because that's a null-tell and could have come from a townie. Christ, why does everyone feel the need to discredit me for something i don't understand at the first place and because i want to question it? | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
On August 15 2013 00:20 strongandbig wrote: rayn why did you say this. before it I see nothing in your filter about a read on vivax. Are you sure, because there should be. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=423047¤tpage=120#2386 | ||
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raynpelikoneet
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raynpelikoneet
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Can you expand on "not focusing on scumhunting"? Show me some examples. Also you did not explain why you agree with your scumread Acro immediately on his case on me (which was btw bullshit). | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
THIS IS WHY I WANNA GET ELECTED! So that i can actually talk with people. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
On August 15 2013 00:49 Xatalos wrote: iamperfection kept telling me that Acro was town (and with some good reasoning). When we started arguing, my read on Acro was closer to a nullread than a scumread. As we kept arguing, I started to think more and more that he might be town after all. His case on you awakened the lingering suspicion I had had on you for much longer, but never actually pushed. I'm not saying that you're likely scum. I'm just saying that you're not nearly as likely town as in NWM. Even iamperfection reduced his strong townread of you close to a nullread after D2. "On D2 as i have explained why i didn't do much, i didn't have to." That has to be the most scummy statement I've seen all game............. You've done some scumhunting, but I doubt I'll have to show you why a disturbing amount of your filter is just utterly useless questioning and arguing. To your bolded statement. I did not offer my conclusions in thread. It's not that i do not have them (something Acro falsely used in his case aswell). There was no way noone else than yamato was gonna get lynched. Why should i tell everything i have figured out in thread? Everyone who knows how i play knowes i will PM my thoughts to Risen before the end of night, and in case i do die, Risen has to publish them. Otherwise he dies. Do you agree? | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
Omfg Ace.. E Well he was somewhat a suspect so. Okay this Xatalos / Acrofales thing is really frustrating. Acrofales clearly does not know how i play if he is town and accusing me of what he is atm. I'll deal with that on D3 in case i am alive. I don't remember if i have played him in any game but in Red Teams Prize, but i'll tell him to look into my play in that game. If he doesn't see how dumb he is he is probably scum. Xatalos just hops on his scumreads case on his townread. lol. And for what reasons, "rayn has been focusing on all the wrong things in this game". Like he knows what's right and what's wrong. How can he even say that. Seems really fucking fishy. I do not understand why iamp is unwilling to comment on that shit. Other than that (based on my interactions with him on D1) he seems really town but this really bothers me. Sharrant / Acro thing is fishy as you pointed out. SnB look a bit better as he actually read your post and actually understood what you were saying. Nothing definitive at least if Sharrant and/or Acro is in fact town. johnnywup/Jrkirby(Mocsta) are still totally useless. The lynchbait thing Acro talked about me is bullshit as i pointed out. If Acro is mafia, it's really likely that johnnuwup is too. Like people are willing to kill jrkirby for being useless but not johnnywup. What's the difference between them? I do not see it. Vivax should be pressured hard on D3. Again, the same thing that happened in D1 end. He made a couple of good posts but other than that he is useless. I'm planning on pressuring him hard from D3 start, now is time to start playing if he is town. Mocsta claimed jailkeeper? lol? His meta defense on Sharrant is totally wrong. He says Sharrant is a lynchbait, that's not true. In LXI we caught 2 scum with Sharrant on N1 with our good play, Sharrant is not showing any of that play here. Maybe he is a JK/roleblocker who blocked Xatalos on N1. In Xata's defense the roleblock looks town on him. If Mocsta is roleblocker it means Xatalos is like likely town and just really stupid. After doing some rethinking i think it´s likely that Oberyn is town. He had very good points in PM's on D1. I am not sure of Onegu yet, although he made sense at the end of D2. Everyone else seems town to me atm. What are your thoughts? Also, can i be the lord on D3? I really need to get into the PM land, i was really frustrated as i had no fucking idea what's going on and all the lords pretty much sat on their asses and didn't interact in thread at all. Are you okay with this? | ||
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