EPTTitanic Mini Mafia! - Page 42
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43188 Posts
On July 29 2013 06:34 FirmTofu wrote: I'm voting exarezee. You have no case. You just said you think I'm scum because exarezee is town to you and my points against him are bad. Now, you can hold that stance. That's fine. However, you can't accuse me of not defending myself from it. Like I said, I'm looking into a possible Malongo/Koshi/Paper scum team. I'll be back soon. Until then, hold off on your bullshit. Your case on exarezee is bullshit that hinders on him being wishy-washy and you assuming the rest of the stuff in the case. After your case you yourself do the same thing you are accusing exarezee of -> your stance on JAT. That's the case. Why you call exarezee scummy for stuff you yourself do right after? | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38797 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On July 27 2013 17:21 hzflank wrote: First impressions: I do not like how much discussion there has been about lurkers. The first post was palatable, but the fact that so many people decided to focus the conversation on it created an environment that benefits scum more than town. To talk about lurking policy properly would require a conversation about mafia-theory and philosophy, which is a conversation that allows scum to both hide easily and setup town-town wagons on day one. Paperscraps is the scummiest player to have posted so far. That does not mean that you should find a fence to sit on. There are many pro-town things that you could be doing on day 1 even if you have a hard time forming good scum reads. This post is so scummy, as it is just throwing mud for no good reason. I did not like this post by Tofu as I cannot tell whether he is actually prodding or looking for a soft target. The bolded part is what puts a scummy tone on the post. Exarzee is almost as town as anyone can be at this stage of the game. The only thing I did not like was: There are good town reasons for withholding a read for a few hours or until a particular person has posted, however the reason given above by Exarzee is not a good town reason. I am willing to let it slide due to some of his other posts being very town. This post by Rayn is not scummy, but I want to point it out because I do not think that anyone should be encouraged to sheep. Sheeping generally helps scum more than town. To finish, I liked the way that a lot of votes were thrown around early and I see benefit in continuing to do this, as it will provide extra information in the future. Since I think that Paperscraps is the scummiest player so far: ##vote: Paperscraps Now to me those first posts of Paper (read the paper filter not only the posts hz quotes) are pretty much null, or maybe even leaning town as he is playing this game and not taking it too serious yet. After a couple posts paper even apologizes for making the joke posts and is willing to make more serious posts, which he did. Now, after this one would remove this vote on paper in case it was a pressure vote right? Nope, hz doesn't. Why not I ask you? In the spoiler below hz says that he would change his opinion on Paper, But let's be honest hz is not going to to that. He even puts a scumvote out of the fucking blue on oats because oats defends paper. But then decided to not posts a case on oats because it wasn't a good case. (as if this ever stopped hz) + Show Spoiler + On July 28 2013 00:02 hzflank wrote: I think that Paper is scum. However, that read may possibly change (If I am given reason to change it), and if it does change then there is every possibility that they are both town. Their interactions with you in no way preclude them from both being town. Another remarkable thing is how hz interacts with me. It's gut but it's not towny for me. I don't have the time to provide the quotes but it comes down on hz saying that I am a null read. It obviously isn't that simple but meh. Something else that bugs me is that hz does treat anybody the same as paper. hz does not tunnel anybody else, but hz makes sure he has conversations/discussions with everybody. Hz steps on clarity his toes a bit, maybe a bit on vayne, maybe a bit on oats. But is it on the same level as paper? Not even close. There is a lot of thread control coming from hz, but is it is rarely about finding scum outside the paper case. Obviously hz asks a lot of questions and makes comments on other people their cases. But is it really pushing to find other scums? I would say no. Not at all. | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38797 Posts
Something else that bugs me is that hz does not treat anybody the same as paper. hz does not tunnel anybody else, but hz makes sure he has conversations/discussions with everybody. Hz steps on clarity his toes a bit, maybe a bit on vayne, maybe a bit on oats. But is it on the same level as paper? Not even close. | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38797 Posts
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Malongo
Chile3468 Posts
On July 29 2013 00:20 hzflank wrote: The Paperscraps came from a Scum-Tree Paper rejoins the game with a big post that is basically just a list of town reads. He does not provide particularly good reasons for his town reads. This is scummy through and through. I dont care about a list of his town reads, I want to know who he thinks is scum. + Show Spoiler + On July 28 2013 10:24 Paperscraps wrote: I have finally caught up! I wrote down some reads as I was catching up. First off I need to say some stuff about my play early on. I get why people would find me scummy so far, tone and sarcasm are hard to convey in text. This is why I will play a more standard game from now on. It isn't helping people find scum, if they are looking at me for joking and being sarcastic and not understanding that is all it is. hzflank leaning town - The more and more I read hz, the more I begin to like him. Not afraid to be abrasive and stand his ground. exarezee null - The argument of either Tofu or I having to be scum strikes me as odd. I don't see any interactions between FT and I, that would merit this stance. I would like a more in-depth analysis of this pairing. One thing that bugs me about exarezee is that he has reacted in a "noob" fashion to the two early votes on him. With his 100+ games played on the poker forums, which I have no reason to doubt, I just can't see why he would react so defensively. I am probably over thinking my read on exarezee, but I don't see him flipping scum at the moment, due his push on me which holds no substance and his reaction. Oats leaning town - I am really hoping Oats is town, his reads and post so far have been great. His comprehension of what is going on is probably the best so far. Clarity leaning town - Nothing really to elaborate on Clarity so far, I doubt most of the players would disagree. One great interaction I found so far was this. This interaction seems genuine. If either of hzflank or exarezee were scum, I would say the other isn't. CapJackSparrow null - I totally dig his RP gimmick so far and I am biased toward him in a good way. I want to say I lean town on him, but I would hold judgement on his alignment for now. Tofu null - I don't think his push on exarezee is the best. It seems to be grasping. The thing with making cases in general is you can always twist and skew people's filter to whatever you think is right. Initially I leaned town on FT, but after his case I retract that some what. Vayne leaning town - not sure what to think of vayne as of yet, he comes in every so often and drops some knowledge. I think his vote on clarity is pretty bad though. His filter strikes me as town though. Koshi leaning town - Koshi is a odd ball so far. I like that he town reads me, haha. I mostly agree with the lists he has made so far. I am going to read some filters more in-depth and meditate on what I have come up with so far. I don't have a strong scum read at the moment. Also I realize I haven't commented on some people who have posted, the reads above were what stuck out to me most on my initial read through. How can that be mafia if the game had just started? You expect something like a paper on who is mafia based on 10 pages of posts? guy addressed one by one each player and you get angry because he doesnt respond directly to you I already pointed out a specific thing that I did not like about this, which can be seen in this exchange. I encourage you all to read it from post 493 to 503. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=422720¤tpage=25#493 Paper's excuse for the inconstancy was that he did not read properly, but it was not one of those moments where you can tell that he was obviously being truthful. Paper refused to answer any of my questions. How am I possibly supposed to get a town read on him when he does not answer my questions? If Paper were town then he would of answered them as honestly as possible. Also, what does this actually tell us? It's pure fluff in an attempt to pad a post that contains zero useful information for town. This is a lie as proof you can actually find the exchange that he actually answers you directly: On July 28 2013 18:25 Paperscraps wrote: Maybe I am missing something, but reading through Oats' filter he doesn't push on you. He doesn't even directly call you scum. I am not sure what you are looking for here. I believe what he has said about you so far is decent. I really don't see how it contradicts my read. Stepping on toes = abrasive. Is your gripe with him calling you defensive? On July 28 2013 10:24 Paperscraps wrote: This interaction seems genuine. If either of hzflank or exarezee were scum, I would say the other isn't. In general I have no idea how Paper even arrived at the useless town reads in that post because he did not explain them in a townie way. So actually you are telling that you dont understand Paper so he is not town. See the logic flaw? In addition, when Paper is pushed and finally gives us a scum read it is this: He gives us a single sentence as to why he wants to lynch Vivax. A single sentence in a game with 400+ posts to use for information. Then he adds a second scum read. He never actually pushes either of these reads at all. Not once does he even direct a post at Vivax or JAT. Well actually his one sentence makes more sense to me than these case. He calls Vivax directly lurker because there was no reason behind his vote. Paper later says that he has changed his mind about me and thinks I may be scum. I engage him in conversation (linked above) and he does not even try to push his read on me at all. If Paper actually had a scum read on me then why did that conversation go as it did? How is that in any ways indicative of mafia? if something he liked your own way to be abrasive. How is any of this not scummy? How can people be saying that Paper's filter looks town? What? most people look at Paper as null towards townie, I dont see anyone calling him town. What I am sure is your post is really forced towards Paper | ||
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43188 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43188 Posts
On July 29 2013 06:44 Clarity_nl wrote: He wants to push HIS wagon over other peoples wagons? The scummy bastard. yeah, just because of that. That's so dumb it can't be scum. :D | ||
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Stutters695
2610 Posts
Just so the vote count will be accurate. | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38797 Posts
On July 29 2013 06:44 Clarity_nl wrote: He wants to push HIS wagon over other peoples wagons? The scummy bastard. That's not the point. The point is he is not interested in finding other scums and is controlling the thread to make sure the atmosphere is not ideal to find other scums. How many people here don't lean scum on paper? Oats exarezee Malongo Myself. hz keeps shooting everything down and pushes 1 fucking wagon. Who of us is so fucking certain about 1 wagon that he is almost blinded towards all other wagons. | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38797 Posts
Before you all go crazy and stuff. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43188 Posts
On July 29 2013 06:48 Koshi wrote: That's not the point. The point is he is not interested in finding other scums and is controlling the thread to make sure the atmosphere is not ideal to find other scums. How many people here don't lean scum on paper? Oats exarezee Malongo Myself. hz keeps shooting everything down and pushes 1 fucking wagon. Who of us is so fucking certain about 1 wagon that he is almost blinded towards all other wagons. Koshi you can't lynch more than 1 scum / day. There is no reason to push multiple lynches by yourself. | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38797 Posts
On July 29 2013 06:50 raynpelikoneet wrote: Koshi you can't lynch more than 1 scum / day. There is no reason to push multiple lynches by yourself. You want to find them don't you? If you can? | ||
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hzflank
United Kingdom2991 Posts
If anyone does want me to fully defend myself now then let me know. | ||
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Malongo
Chile3468 Posts
On July 29 2013 05:58 Clarity_nl wrote: + Show Spoiler + Malongo Let's take a journey, a journey through the posts of Malongo On July 28 2013 14:29 Malongo wrote: Sparrow pfff another smurf. So far in the inactive players I see 5. raynpelikoneet 7. Malongo 9. Stutters695 In the hyper-activity side I see: 1. Oatsmaster 4. IMCaptainJackSparrow 10. hzflank 14. exarezee Everyone else is meh-activity wise. So far my best pick is hzflank I really didnt like this post from hzflank: The think about starting the day lynching a lurker is to force the players to post and force the mafia to make mistakes. I rather start the day forcing lurkers to post than "looking for 2/3 wagons" earlier. Earlier wagons are more likely to be town (in my experience) and the lurker lynching stays aside. Trying to get early wagons is also a good way to close the fence early wich help the mafia more than the town. His vote so far on Paperscraps is really weak and when I read his filter I found it really reactive (or defensive as he put it). ##Vote: hzflank Id be happy to lynch CJS for no reason too ( I just hate attention-smurfs ). Let's just ignore the random list of activity, even though no one asked him. Malongo starts his case by admitting that he has no strong reads, or more specifically, that this is his strongest read. He makes this read based off a single post, despite there being a wealth of information on hz, including my one-on-one time with him. The posts he picks is very early in the game and rather than explaining why it is scummy he explains why it is wrong, and then votes for him. Much later on day 1 he repeats how the reason he's on hz (he's still on hz btw, and hasn't contributed about anything that's been going on in the thread other than a couple of 1-liners) On July 29 2013 05:24 Malongo wrote: And it doesnt help me either that when I wake up I have to read 10 or more pages (and honestly didnt read with high proficiency). Our biggest problem right now is the lack of leads 3 hours to lynch. Thats why hz is still my prime suspect, I found it really bad when he posted about "consolidating 1 or 2 wagos early instead of pushing the lurkers". Clearly he wants to push Paper (wich is null to me atm) and every time he gets into an argument with someone his defence or case is slightly helped by other player around uninvolved. Read what other people has to say about him. "Guys, we have no big leads, if he had big leads, I wouldn't be on hz!" This is basically saying he doesn't believe in his own vote. Now he repeats his case, which is the exact same, and still about the same post in the early hours of day 1. Take a look at the bolded line again. What is he saying? Well let's assume he's town first: Malongo: Guys we should get more information, I'm not too certain about things right now. Okay, that's fair, but then why is his vote still on hz and in posts after this he still claims hz is scum? Malongo: Guys I don't believe in my case, but since you guys are so scattered I'm just gonna leave my vote parked riiiiiiiight here. This makes sense to me, the scum perspective. As town it does not. Low post count, low content, implying he's wrong yet pushing for it anyway. He scum yo. ##Vote Malongo You are actually dodging the point when I called out the post of hz being inconsistent with the town benefit to lynch lurkers day1. When I said *no leads* I was clearly calling this post in mind On July 27 2013 21:46 hzflank wrote: Yes I would lynch a lurker today. However, I dislike beginning the day with the thought of lynching a lurker. I think the best thing on day 1 would be for at least 3 wagons to form before we even thinking about consolidating (or lynching a lurker). If enough cases are made then there is more chance that one of them is a case against scum and the scum team may react to that. It is hard to make a good case against a lurker, so I would prefer cases against active people to be discussed first. | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38797 Posts
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
Mainly to consolidate and because I'm getting a bit sleepy, will be around still though. | ||
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
On July 29 2013 06:55 Malongo wrote: You are actually dodging the point when I called out the post of hz being inconsistent with the town benefit to lynch lurkers day1. When I said *no leads* I was clearly calling this post in mind What? You're saying when you said there were no leads you were talking about that post by hz? I really don't understand what you're saying. | ||
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hzflank
United Kingdom2991 Posts
On July 29 2013 06:55 Koshi wrote: Why are we ignoring Malongo? Do you want me to fully answer him now? His problem with me stems from philosophical differences regarding lynching lurkers. After that he clutches at straws. He seems to genuinely think that I am scum, though. I never responded to him earlier because until this page he talked about me and not too me, and since I have spent a lot of time replying to people doing that this game there was no town benefit to messing up the thread discussing philosophical differences. Do you want me to fully answer every point that you and Malongo just made? | ||
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