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I Swear This Is Normal Mini Mafia 2 - Page 23

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
July 25 2013 17:43 GMT
#441
You mean my case on GK? I would have done that as town aswell, dude was so scummy.
But i ended up distracting Hapa/marv with my Hapa case in the end. Before Coag shot me.. :/
I don't like to make "easy cases" as scum. Far more beneficial to make strong players doubt each other and look good at the same time.
table for two on a tv tray
Ange777
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Germany1164 Posts
July 25 2013 17:45 GMT
#442
VOTE COUNT:

FirmTofu (2): Lazermonkey, ShiaoPi, Dandel Ion
Malongo (1): Stutters695
ShiaoPi (0): raynpelikoneet
Stutters695 (1): Lazermonkey
Artanis[Xp] (2): Rainbows, Dandel Ion, Koshi
Koshi (1): Malongo
Lazermonkey (1): Sylencia
Sylencia (1): raynpelikoneet
raynpelikoneet (1): FirmTofu

Deadline is in ~10 hours. Currently FirmTofu is set to be lynched!

Reminder: Voting is mandatory! Please use the correct voting format ##Vote cDgCorazon.


♥ Sen - 台灣之光 ♥
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
July 25 2013 17:46 GMT
#443
On July 26 2013 02:42 FirmTofu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2013 02:36 ShiaoPi wrote:
rayn ie actually reminding me of his play in catch 22. but I suck at meta cases and i dislike using them, so i did not mention it until now.

@FT: can you expand your read on rainbows?

I'm feeling town from his filter. I echo some of his sentiment on Artanis and I can see where he is coming from as town. His move to attack Artanis when there is a wagon on me is also quite bold. It draws attention to himself and off of a townie(in me). I don't think it's a move scum would make.

What is this? Assuming you are town why is it not beneficial for scum to create another town wagon?
You need to elaborate on this.
table for two on a tv tray
ShiaoPi
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
July 25 2013 17:47 GMT
#444
On July 26 2013 02:43 raynpelikoneet wrote:
You mean my case on GK? I would have done that as town aswell, dude was so scummy.
But i ended up distracting Hapa/marv with my Hapa case in the end. Before Coag shot me.. :/
I don't like to make "easy cases" as scum. Far more beneficial to make strong players doubt each other and look good at the same time.

I cannot pinpoint it. Just as i said it's a feeling of familiarity in general
LiquidDota Staff@TW_ShiaoPi
TL+ Member
ShiaoPi
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
July 25 2013 17:49 GMT
#445
On July 26 2013 02:42 FirmTofu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2013 02:36 ShiaoPi wrote:
rayn ie actually reminding me of his play in catch 22. but I suck at meta cases and i dislike using them, so i did not mention it until now.

@FT: can you expand your read on rainbows?

I'm feeling town from his filter. I echo some of his sentiment on Artanis and I can see where he is coming from as town. His move to attack Artanis when there is a wagon on me is also quite bold. It draws attention to himself and off of a townie(in me). I don't think it's a move scum would make.


what abiut the entire policy thing he brought up?
LiquidDota Staff@TW_ShiaoPi
TL+ Member
FirmTofu
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1956 Posts
July 25 2013 17:50 GMT
#446
On July 26 2013 02:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2013 02:42 FirmTofu wrote:
On July 26 2013 02:36 ShiaoPi wrote:
rayn ie actually reminding me of his play in catch 22. but I suck at meta cases and i dislike using them, so i did not mention it until now.

@FT: can you expand your read on rainbows?

I'm feeling town from his filter. I echo some of his sentiment on Artanis and I can see where he is coming from as town. His move to attack Artanis when there is a wagon on me is also quite bold. It draws attention to himself and off of a townie(in me). I don't think it's a move scum would make.

What is this? Assuming you are town why is it not beneficial for scum to create another town wagon?
You need to elaborate on this.

That is a fair point, but I think scum would be more likely to jump on an existing wagon on a townie than form one themselves. Scum doesn't want to be associated with starting the wagon. It draws unnecessary attention to themselves after the flip.
I lie a lot when I'm town. I never lie when I'm scum.
Lazermonkey
Profile Joined June 2011
Sweden2176 Posts
July 25 2013 17:51 GMT
#447
On July 26 2013 00:02 Sylencia wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 25 2013 19:56 Lazermonkey wrote:
Sylencia, you are basically voting my based upon a single post, correct? And the reason you do this is because you agree with my logic, correct? I don't feel like explaining why I am right and you are wrong for the seventh time. If you really are town, check my filter and you will understand that I have already answered your questions and suspicions. But disregarding that, how does me disagreeing with you make me scum? You don't explain this at all.

Also, there are alot of guys agreeing with my logic here which you even point out yourself. Why is it that I am scummy but not them? Do you seriously think scum would be the one to start the "suicidal and very stupid plan" and that a bunch of townies just sheeped it. Because I would actually argue its the other way around. Scum are very afraid of saying stuff that could cause them to look bad, like a "suicidal and very stupid plan", however if a plan like that is started by a townie then they could very well be sheeping that.


I've already read it, and I explained how the post is literally setup to help scum. The reason why people agree is because it sounds sensible. Someone's about to die, and so they'll take the shot because they think their partner is scum. Sounds great in theory, but if you think about how it's done in practice it's a crappy idea.

Also, plans aren't about how suicidal they are, it's about how well you can sell the idea. It's the same with pushing for a lynch - if you're convincing enough you'll push the wagon all the way and everyone will hop on. In any case, completely brushing off the possibility that one team can perform an action because it's high risk is silly, I prefer to keep an open mind about things.

Show nested quote +
On July 25 2013 20:03 raynpelikoneet wrote:
##Vote: Sylencia
Only setup speculation. He has not done anything else in the whole game. ANYTHING ELSE, and it's been over a day since the game started. He is not interested in finding mafia. Only thing that comes even close to scumhunting is his case against Lazer, which is one big assumtion and bad.


Great, you know this happens in most of the games I'm in already having played with me a few times, where I find it difficult to properly find reads. Rather than rehashing the same argument over and over again, how about you target someone you know isn't lynchbait every game.
You just went full retard, never go full retard...

Like literally everything in this post is just so fucking BS I cannot even believe it. Its mind blowing really. Take a step back and look through everything and try to have an open mind. Its clear at this point that you are either scum panicing or town in super-tunnel-bias mode. Let me brake this down for you.

I'm not even going to comment on the policy thing. I heavily disagree with you as you know but its not even relevant at this point. As I said before, you must understand that those types of policies really requires everyone to accept in order to actually be valuable. This is simple logic. Right now, you'll have to convince alot of guys to do that. And you aren't trying. So this policy really means nothing whether you like it or not.

The second part. Well, your are being super dumb once again. I never said scum couldn't be doing something like this. Let me summerize our conversation really fast

You: Lazer is scum because his idea helps scum
Me: Well, even if we ignore the fact that it doesn't help scum, why does this mean that just I am scum? What about the other guys on the wagon? In my experience scum are more likely to be sheeping a bad idea of a townie that to be the one who is starting a bad idea that THEN gets sheeped by townies.
You: Just because its high risk for scum doesn't mean they cannot do that.


So what are we left with? Well I STILL DON'T HAVE A FUCKING CLUE HOW YOU COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT I AM SCUM! Please explain why I am scum, why those who aren't on the wagon aren't scum. How does any of your arguments show that I am scum instead of missguided townie? Disagreeing with someone doesn't mean that that person is scum...

Also if you think that what convinces people that a plan or a lynch is correct is just the amount of time and dedication you put into it, then you are really really stupid. A bad argument should never ever convince a whole town no matter how much you try to convince everyone.

The last part Rayn already talked about. You can't argue yourself out of all suspiciouns just by saying you are a lynch bait because if you did, you would win every time you were scum...
FirmTofu
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1956 Posts
July 25 2013 17:53 GMT
#448
On July 26 2013 02:49 ShiaoPi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2013 02:42 FirmTofu wrote:
On July 26 2013 02:36 ShiaoPi wrote:
rayn ie actually reminding me of his play in catch 22. but I suck at meta cases and i dislike using them, so i did not mention it until now.

@FT: can you expand your read on rainbows?

I'm feeling town from his filter. I echo some of his sentiment on Artanis and I can see where he is coming from as town. His move to attack Artanis when there is a wagon on me is also quite bold. It draws attention to himself and off of a townie(in me). I don't think it's a move scum would make.


what abiut the entire policy thing he brought up?

IDK. My read on Rainbows is not very strong so I don't want to lead you astray if I'm wrong. I personally don't think the policy thing is very alignment indicative. If you want to bring up something in particular, go ahead.
I lie a lot when I'm town. I never lie when I'm scum.
Stutters695
Profile Joined July 2012
2610 Posts
July 25 2013 18:02 GMT
#449
On July 26 2013 02:36 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2013 02:32 Stutters695 wrote:
If you want to vig him I'm totally behind it.

No, that's stupid. He'll come back and contribute or we lynch him. He doesn't seem very townie atm other than his "shot" on me. I have been trying to think why would that make sense from him as either alignment and i can't understand it (assuming he actually shot and then asked for cancel). Usually it's townies tat do stupid stuff like this so atm i am inclined to lean town on hm, but i would really like him to answer me at least in our QT.

I disagree. It would be stupid if he demonstrated a town mindset behind it in any way at all.

Shooting "for the lulz" does not in any way demonstrate a town mindset. Neither does cancelling the shot solely because it's on you. If you believe he actually fired the shot and cancelled it based off of his overall lack of any contributions and his failure to demonstrate a town mindset behind the shot makes him pretty likely scum in my book and definitely a good vig.
ShiaoPi
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
July 25 2013 18:03 GMT
#450
alright. I am currently satisfied with FTs answers to my questions therfore ##unvote
unfortunately i am now at a state where I can be happy to lynch like half the players ~.~

Its 2am so I am heading to bed now. Will be back before the deadline to check on new developments and put down my vote. let me leave a couple of notes to you before sleeping:
dandel might be a disruptive annoying little bitch but he is most probably town.
sylencia is indeed a lynchbait, however in later cycles he is able to give out great reads(see I swear mafia1) so I would advocate waiting on him
rainbows is now nullish to me. liked his recent posting. maybe I made too big of a deal out of the entire policy thing.
rayn is weird. If i were to vote now it is him. but i have a couple of doubts so i will decide after sleeping on it.
koshi currently strikes me as ixncredibly stupid/noobie town. Its as said before too scummy for scum.
on artanis i did not want to lynch him earlier since he is a vet. while i have not played with him before I think he miht be worthwhile to keep around for at least another day to see if his posting gets better.
on malongo: the shot thing is the redeeming factor, otherwise he looks not too good. dunno abiut him

thats more or less the jumbled stuff I got now before sleeping see yiu all tmr!
LiquidDota Staff@TW_ShiaoPi
TL+ Member
Ange777
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Germany1164 Posts
July 25 2013 18:35 GMT
#451
VOTE COUNT:

FirmTofu (1): Lazermonkey, ShiaoPi, Dandel Ion
Malongo (1): Stutters695
ShiaoPi (0): raynpelikoneet
Stutters695 (1): Lazermonkey
Artanis[Xp] (2): Rainbows, Dandel Ion, Koshi
Koshi (1): Malongo
Lazermonkey (1): Sylencia
Sylencia (1): raynpelikoneet
raynpelikoneet (1): FirmTofu

Deadline is in ~10 hours. Currently Artanis[Xp] is set to be lynched!

Reminder: Voting is mandatory! Please use the correct voting format ##Vote cDgCorazon.

♥ Sen - 台灣之光 ♥
Lazermonkey
Profile Joined June 2011
Sweden2176 Posts
July 25 2013 18:52 GMT
#452
On July 26 2013 00:56 FirmTofu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2013 00:51 Dandel Ion wrote:
I'm leaving for today and will 99% miss the deadline and shit.

Throwing my substantial abilities of premonition into the future, I predict a lynch on Firmtofu, so I'm preemptively sheeping a wagon that's not being consolidated yet, but should be, because CONSOLIDATE YOU MORONS

thanks.

##Unvote
##Vote FirmTofu

We don't necessarily need to consolidate because it's plurality lynch. You should be voting your biggest scum read, not sheeping a wagon.
We really realy should consolidate though. If we split our votes up more then every scum vote will be relatively stronger. Also, if you just vote your biggest scum read but that read happend to be someone who isn't gaining alot of votes, you are indirectly voting for the player with the most votes at the time. You might have to go for a guy thats not your top scum read but rather your second or third to prevent guys you don't think are scummy to get lynched. We should aim to pin the pynch between 2 players or at tops 3. Everyone should comment on ALL of the candidates and say in which one they want to lynch the most, second most etc. And we really should do it ASAP as alot of guys will not be able to attend at the deadline. I will try to be there but I can't really promise and I have full respect, especially for the europeans, if they are unable to attend.

For me the list is currently: Stutters
Sylencia
FT
Artanis or maybe Koshi
Rainbows
Profile Joined March 2013
Germany1217 Posts
July 25 2013 18:58 GMT
#453
ill be home hopefully 2 hours pre-lynch to flesh out some reads. In short I think Artanis is a decent lynch today. If not him, dont lynch an active dude.
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
July 25 2013 19:12 GMT
#454
So lazer, we need to consolidate on 2/3 players and you bring up 5. rofl, what's that?

Currently:
Sylencia
Koshi
table for two on a tv tray
Koshi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium38799 Posts
July 25 2013 19:21 GMT
#455
On July 26 2013 04:12 raynpelikoneet wrote:
So lazer, we need to consolidate on 2/3 players and you bring up 5. rofl, what's that?

Currently:
Sylencia
Koshi

You want to keep Artanis alive over me? Why not lynch Artanis and I will take over his role.

[Image loading]
I had a good night of sleep.
Lazermonkey
Profile Joined June 2011
Sweden2176 Posts
July 25 2013 19:42 GMT
#456
On July 26 2013 04:12 raynpelikoneet wrote:
So lazer, we need to consolidate on 2/3 players and you bring up 5. rofl, what's that?

Currently:
Sylencia
Koshi
There is a diference though. I would really want to kill stutters but I don't see him as a realistic lynch for today. Sylencia might not be optimal either, at least if what ShiaoPi writes is correct i.e. that he ups his play the longer the game goes. I think todays lynch is between Firmtofu or Artanis.
Z-BosoN
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Brazil2590 Posts
July 25 2013 19:43 GMT
#457
good day
Catching up
Stutters695
Profile Joined July 2012
2610 Posts
July 25 2013 19:44 GMT
#458
I honestly don't get Lazer's hard on for lynching me. Whatever, I really doubt that will happen.

Now in terms of what can happen today:

Malongo (vig or lynch plz)
Lazer: Despite saying his reason for lynching me over Syl was bad still wants to lynch me first. He's also failed to demonstrate how my actions are scummy outside of policy talk early on. Combined with him deciding his lynch choice off of who is less lynch bait rather than demonstrably scummy is concerning.
Not really sure on a third yet.
Rainbows
Profile Joined March 2013
Germany1217 Posts
July 25 2013 19:47 GMT
#459
everyone is so butthurt about people finding them scummy. lol.
Lazermonkey
Profile Joined June 2011
Sweden2176 Posts
July 25 2013 19:59 GMT
#460
On July 26 2013 04:44 Stutters695 wrote:
I honestly don't get Lazer's hard on for lynching me. Whatever, I really doubt that will happen.

Now in terms of what can happen today:

Malongo (vig or lynch plz)
Lazer: Despite saying his reason for lynching me over Syl was bad still wants to lynch me first. He's also failed to demonstrate how my actions are scummy outside of policy talk early on. Combined with him deciding his lynch choice off of who is less lynch bait rather than demonstrably scummy is concerning.
Not really sure on a third yet.
I didn't say my reasons for lynching you over Syl was bad though. I said that my reason BESIDES the lynch bait point was bad. But the lynch bait point isn't bad. Look at Sylencias profile, http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/profile.php?user=Sylencia. He really has been lynched ALOT as town. And as a player that actually led the lynch on him, I can say that his play this game isn't extremly different from the other.

Also, why am I scum for attacking you with "bad" arguments? Are scum more inclined to use "bad" arguments?
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