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I have to rewrite this because my computer crashed, so I'm just going to c/p the parts that hz wrote (without the quotes from Super). Original case is here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=420227¤tpage=28#549
The Super Case
Super introduces himself as a player who understands that people cannot always respond to posts quickly and as a player who thinks that applying pressure on other players is a good thing. His later posts do not exhibit these traits at all.
Before even starting to scum-hunt, Super is concerned with self-preservation. He is not even interested in getting good conversation flowing to produce information. Self-preservation comes first.
This isn't scummy. I've already talked about this at length, but everyone's first priority is to stay alive. If there was suspicion on me, my first priority is to remove it.
Ask yourself: what would you do if you walked into the thread and there was a case on you? You'd defend yourself.
One of the first things that Super says comes to his mind is that Cloud has not posted yet. Why is this the next thing that Super thinks of, after self-preservation? He later gives a reason but I cannot understand how he arrived at that train of thought.
? His reason makes sense. He didn't have time to do anything more than skim, so he called out someone he thought was lurking. Not particularly townie, but not at all scummy.
Next Super says that he has not yet scum-hunted, but so far I was his biggest scum read. That would be fine if his reads were fluid after he actually did some scum-hunting. As we will see later though, his read on me persists until I really hammer home the point that there is no good town motivation for his read on me.
This isn't scummy. Bad reads =/= scum, bad townies make bad reads all of the time. You say there's no town motivation, but there's really no scum motivation. Scum know that they won't get a mislynch on you, so they have no reason to scumread you.
Also, why is he so worried that posting this early read might push him to being lynched? I think that it is because he already knows that he cannot actually justify his read on me.
I didn't really understand what he was saying in that sentence.
Next, Super calls me a lurker but says that the other Europeans should be excused for not posting much. I had already made several posts at this point and am a European myself.
This isn't scummy. This is bad reasoning. Bad reasoning often comes from bad town. If anything, this is overzealous scumhunting.
He says that he wants to see more from me, but does not give any indication of what he wants to see. When I later make posts directed towards him he completely ignores then as though they are invisible. If he had a scum read on me and wanted to see more, why does he not reply to my posts?
This, once again, isn't scummy. If I say that I want a scumread to post more, that does NOT mean that I'm planning on replying to them. All it means is that I want them to post their reads and reasoning more often. I'm probably NOT going to reply to them, most of the time, unless I have something in particular to say. I cannot understand why you think this is bad.
Next Super says that he still thinks I am scum. His reasons are that I have not posted anything which contributed to finding scum. I may be biased on this point, but I do not see how a town Super could say that I had not been contributing. Note that I stopped playing at around 2 AM my time last night, but Super seems to think that it was scummy of me to stop posting. Why would a town player think that?
Once again, bad logic =/= scum.
Now, Super is still more concerned with self-preservation that with finding scum. He also gently suggests that we should consider a no lynch. If a town player was under pressure at this point they would push a scum-read as hard as they could, but they would not try for a no lynch. Super switches his primary scum read from me to Xzavier, without ever saying why I suddenly became less scummy or Xzavier became more scummy (as Xzavier has not posted in a long time). This is still self-preservation without pushing a scum target with any significant force.
Why would a scum player say that they were just giving reads in self defense? I'll admit that this is a decent point though.
So almost all of hz's case is stuff that isn't scummy. When I look at Super's filter, I see someone who's at least trying to find scum and share their reads freely. This is way more than you can say for Kirby.
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On July 15 2013 05:27 Hurricane Sponge wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 13:31 Chromatically wrote:I just reread hz's case, and I really don't like it. He calls out a lot of things that aren't actually scummy. Look at the summary:
To conclude, Super's priorities seem to be
1) Stay Alive
2) Find a person to vote for
3) Find justifications for voting
This is literally a list of objectives as either alignment. Town obviously wants to stay alive. Finding a person to vote for with reasoning is also town. The difference between the alignments is that town want to find scum, and mafia doesn't actually want to. Super looks like he's honestly trying to find scum. In particular, I really like these two posts: On July 14 2013 04:29 Superfluous wrote:Going back through the posts, I'm a little alarmed at Hurricane Sponge's change of tone. In this post he disagrees with my opinion and says it casts suspicion on me, but doesnt state that I'm a huge scumread or anything. Here I interpreted his post as acknowledging that while we disagree, I was still trying to state my opinion and reasons for having that view. He then says some weird things here though. For instance, he says that he agrees with others' view of me who had semi-defended me, and in the same list puts me as the only scum read. I realize his view may have changed, but it strikes me especially considering in the second post I listed he acknowledged the possibility of a bandwagon on me just because of differing opinions. We also have a mutual disagreement on reads as well. I don't see how hzflank and xzavier have contributed substantially more than me. While knowing everyone's scum reads is good, I don't like it when people show up, say their scum reads, then expect other people to act on them. As for Stim I think he's more likely bad town then mafia. Then again everyone else is saying the same thing, so could be mafia excuse for not lynching him. On July 14 2013 04:37 Superfluous wrote:
Also, idk what is up with jrkirby. If there was a third party that'd be my guess for him, right now just null read I guess though. This is because his play has been somewhat erratic with no clear goal to me other than tunneling on Sponge, which didn't really do much. He strikes me as the type of player who could be dangerous late game for us because he seems hard to read. Im curious jrkirby, what has been your goal with your posts thus far? Super wasn't under any pressure when he posted these. He's actively reading the thread, looking for scum, and most importantly sharing his thought process with the thread. This is very, very genuine and townie. Basically: Super is trying to find scum, even if it doesn't look like it at first glance. Kirby is NOT trying to find scum, but he's trying to look like he is. He wasn't trying to find scum. He only posted that because I issued a list of my reads and he was the only one in bright red on the list. That was a 'Defend Thyself' reaction post, nothing proactive about it, Chrom.
Why would you think that? There's no reason to think that. You weren't even voting him.
Kirby has only issues scumreads when someone has SPECIFICALLY ASKED him for them, so he had no choice. No one was asking Super specifically about his reads. It was proactive.
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All of my points against Kirby still stand. He has only posted a case under HEAVY suspicion, and he puts it on lynchbait.
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On July 15 2013 05:36 jrkirby wrote:
How can you say I'm not trying to find scum? I put pressure on hurricane sponge early game, maybe not as much as you like. I pointed out something I thought might be a scumslip by rainbows. I've put a case on gotard. These are all scumhunting. Maybe I didn't follow through on these as much as I should have, but I was hunting.
The pressure on Sponge was nonexistant. Kirby asked him for his post a few times before dropping it.
The "scumslip" on Rainbows was absolutely nothing, there was no pressure at all. It felt like Kirby were really grasping at straws for something to post.
The case on Gotard only came when you were a leading lynch candidate, and you practically had no other choice. Cases are actually really easy to post as scum, especially if there are lurky players like Gotard in the game. It's townie interactions, attitudes, and motivations that make someone town.
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Xzavier, what did you not like about my case?
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The three scummiest people in the game (Kirby, Koshi, Xzav) are on the Super wagon.
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On July 15 2013 05:13 Xzavier wrote:
him [super] sticking to his "gut-read" is damning the town. he needs to vote on a bandwagon or we run the possibility of a no-lynch which by far benefits scum the most, we NEED to get a lynch off.
jkirby also throwing his vote away is worrying me, but atleast hes made a case on the person he has voted for.
I don't understand this.
You think that Super is scummy for not being on a wagon.
You are willing to ignore Kirby not being on a wagon. The fact that he's made a case is irrelevant, he's still "benefitting scum" just as much by not being on a wagon.
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On July 15 2013 05:56 hzflank wrote:
If you look at Chrom's defense of Super, almost every point was that it was bad play rather than scum play. When you make that many consecutive defenses and call them all bad play then alarm bells should be ringing.
Why would this make you think that he's scum?
Is your entire reasoning for him being scum that he's bad?
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On July 15 2013 06:05 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 05:59 Chromatically wrote:On July 15 2013 05:56 hzflank wrote:
If you look at Chrom's defense of Super, almost every point was that it was bad play rather than scum play. When you make that many consecutive defenses and call them all bad play then alarm bells should be ringing. Why would this make you think that he's scum? Is your entire reasoning for him being scum that he's bad? No, I have made it clear why I think he is scum. Your entire reasoning for him being town is that he is bad. I do not buy it. The way that he writes makes him come across as a reasonable player. He has even made a couple of good posts recently, but he did not make them until he very much had to do so. If I could understand a reason for his early play that does not rely on him being bad then I would be willing to strongly reconsider my vote, but no matter how many times I go over it I just cannot get there.
MY ENTIRE REASON FOR HIM BEING TOWN IS THAT THERE'S NOT A LOT SUGGESTING THAT HE'S SCUM
EVERY ONE OF YOUR REASONS FOR HIM BEING SCUM IS JUST SAYING THAT HE'S BAD
What in particular makes you think that he is scum and not bad town?
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On July 15 2013 06:12 Xzavier wrote:
chrom, didnt you kinda say one of his reasons checked out and made sense for him being scum?
Yes, one of them was okay, compared to the large number of good reasons on Kirby,
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On July 15 2013 06:14 Umasi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 06:08 Chromatically wrote:On July 15 2013 06:05 hzflank wrote:On July 15 2013 05:59 Chromatically wrote:On July 15 2013 05:56 hzflank wrote:
If you look at Chrom's defense of Super, almost every point was that it was bad play rather than scum play. When you make that many consecutive defenses and call them all bad play then alarm bells should be ringing. Why would this make you think that he's scum? Is your entire reasoning for him being scum that he's bad? No, I have made it clear why I think he is scum. Your entire reasoning for him being town is that he is bad. I do not buy it. The way that he writes makes him come across as a reasonable player. He has even made a couple of good posts recently, but he did not make them until he very much had to do so. If I could understand a reason for his early play that does not rely on him being bad then I would be willing to strongly reconsider my vote, but no matter how many times I go over it I just cannot get there. MY ENTIRE REASON FOR HIM BEING TOWN IS THAT THERE'S NOT A LOT SUGGESTING THAT HE'S SCUM EVERY ONE OF YOUR REASONS FOR HIM BEING SCUM IS JUST SAYING THAT HE'S BAD What in particular makes you think that he is scum and not bad town? CHROM WHAT IS STOPPING KIRBY FROM BEING BAD TOWN TOO? WHAT IF HE DIDN'T PRESSURE CORRECTLY BECAUSE HE'S BAD AND DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO PRESSURE YOU CAN'T JUST SAY THAT THEY'RE BAD AND CALL IT QUITS NO ONE WOULD EVER GET LYNCHED THEN BECAUSE WE'RE ALL FUCKING AWFUL
Because Kirby isn't being bad, he's being scum. He's trying to look like he's contributing while doing nothing.
No one "doesn't know how to pressure". It consists of saying what you're thinking. If he was really town, and really had a scumread on Sponge, he would have brought it up to the thread.
He didn't have any scumreads at all (before the wagon on him). If he was town, he would have at least some suspicions, even if they're bad, because he's trying to scumhunt.
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What don't you understand?
Here's another way: Kirby's posting has scum motivation, Super's doesn't. Kirby has been posting a lot of fluff and "light pressure". This makes him look active and contributory while doing nothing. Super has been posting bad reads and defenses, which can just as easily come from bad town as scum. Kirby's been wishy-washy in his reads, showing that he's not really scumhunting and that he's leaving himself an out. Super has mostly stuck to his reads.
There's still the situation of Kirby's attitude towards Stim, which is still incriminating.
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On July 15 2013 06:23 jrkirby wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 06:19 Chromatically wrote:On July 15 2013 06:14 Umasi wrote:On July 15 2013 06:08 Chromatically wrote:On July 15 2013 06:05 hzflank wrote:On July 15 2013 05:59 Chromatically wrote:On July 15 2013 05:56 hzflank wrote:
If you look at Chrom's defense of Super, almost every point was that it was bad play rather than scum play. When you make that many consecutive defenses and call them all bad play then alarm bells should be ringing. Why would this make you think that he's scum? Is your entire reasoning for him being scum that he's bad? No, I have made it clear why I think he is scum. Your entire reasoning for him being town is that he is bad. I do not buy it. The way that he writes makes him come across as a reasonable player. He has even made a couple of good posts recently, but he did not make them until he very much had to do so. If I could understand a reason for his early play that does not rely on him being bad then I would be willing to strongly reconsider my vote, but no matter how many times I go over it I just cannot get there. MY ENTIRE REASON FOR HIM BEING TOWN IS THAT THERE'S NOT A LOT SUGGESTING THAT HE'S SCUM EVERY ONE OF YOUR REASONS FOR HIM BEING SCUM IS JUST SAYING THAT HE'S BAD What in particular makes you think that he is scum and not bad town? CHROM WHAT IS STOPPING KIRBY FROM BEING BAD TOWN TOO? WHAT IF HE DIDN'T PRESSURE CORRECTLY BECAUSE HE'S BAD AND DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO PRESSURE YOU CAN'T JUST SAY THAT THEY'RE BAD AND CALL IT QUITS NO ONE WOULD EVER GET LYNCHED THEN BECAUSE WE'RE ALL FUCKING AWFUL Because Kirby isn't being bad, he's being scum. He's trying to look like he's contributing while doing nothing. No one "doesn't know how to pressure". It consists of saying what you're thinking. If he was really town, and really had a scumread on Sponge, he would have brought it up to the thread. He didn't have any scumreads at all (before the wagon on him). If he was town, he would have at least some suspicions, even if they're bad, because he's trying to scumhunt. Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 09:22 jrkirby wrote:On July 13 2013 09:14 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 09:10 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 08:57 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 08:54 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 08:42 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 08:33 Chromatically wrote:On July 13 2013 08:03 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
The following was written on the contingency I got Town in my role PM. I generally don't like early Day 1 town conversations because it's 100% fluff and teasing and clouds the filters. Necessary evil? Perhaps. But let's try to kick this game into overdrive early, shall we?
Why did you include this? Are you saying you wouldn't have posted this if you were scum? Correct. I would not have posted this particular post as scum. On July 13 2013 08:46 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 13 2013 08:43 Rainbows wrote:On July 13 2013 08:41 Umasi wrote:On July 13 2013 08:33 Chromatically wrote:
[quote]
Why did you include this? Are you saying you wouldn't have posted this if you were scum?
[quote]
I'd be very interested in hearing your explanation as to why you honestly think this is scummy. I certainly wouldn't post that if I were scum, it is nothing but a good thing for town. Why WOULD he want to post that as scum? to look town. Scum love to spew general pro town thingsvto get ez town cred.. This is correct. In general, these sorts of posts should result in a null read in a veteran game. But Early Day 1, when it's generally assumed nothing interesting is happening, seemed like a good time to get PSA's out of the way for a newbie crowd. The info is valuable, but it should not get me town cred. It's more important to me that there's a town consensus on the actual content of the post, not my alignment. (Plenty of time for that later.) You obviously think that your post was pro town, right? That's why you shouldn't have posted it as scum. But then you say that you shouldn't get town cred from it, indicating that you don't think it's pro town. ? Pro town in a newbie game, yes. Probably wouldn't have posted it in a Veteran game unless I really felt the Day 1 conversation stagnating early. I think all my posts are pro-town. Otherwise, why would I post them? (That should apply to everyone but those with a severe inferiority complex.) That doesn't answer the point. The point is that your logic is inconsistant. You say that you wouldn't have posted this as scum. Why? You think that the post is valuable enough to town that scum wouldn't want to post it. You think that only a townie would post it. However, you say that you shouldn't get a town read for it, even though you think that only town would post it. I'm not in the business of telling people I'm town. I'm going to scumhunt and try to win this game, and a byproduct of that should be that people will view me as town. Put another way: I don't believe posting specifically with the goal of acquiring towncred is particularly helpful in anything but circumstances where I could be mislynched. I'm prioritizing getting the Town ducks in a row here in the early going so we can move on to the scumhunt, not establishing my Townie-ness. Interestingly, people (Chrom and jrkirby) have seemed more interested in analyzing why I posted rather than what I posted. Can I infer by this that we largely agree with what I have said? Pretty much what you said was: meta is bad, this is the meta that I might accidentally do. That's fine, neither particularly good nor bad imo. But you claimed that you would only post it on the condition that you were town. You admit to having a post that you would post on the condition that you're scum (which I think is foolish), but you won't show it to us, and that's just a tiny bit suspicious. You aren't even reading my filter, man.
I actually quoted that in my case, if you were reading mine.
Saying something is a "tiny bit suspicious" doesn't constitute a scumread, it constitutes a weak suspicion that you can go with or back out of at any time.
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On July 15 2013 06:32 Koshi wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On July 15 2013 06:07 Koshi wrote:
Superflous timeline
Why the fuck Xzavier? Super his first and second post are about not lynching on the first day and now he starts a vote train. I think because he thinks days take 24hours?
Conclusion: This isn't town play. this is surviving. Surviving because he is blue or scum? I say scum because of that last vote. Comments on this Chrom? Isn't this exactly what Super did? Read his filter after reading this.
I think it's misrepresenting Super's play to make it sound worse than it is.
Entrance with post that no lynch is an option. 1h20m laterApologizing for being gone, defending his previous post in 8 lines. Mentions he has no reads, but cloud didn't post anythinh 2h20m laterapalogising for saying cloud was afk. (in 4 lines) Biggest scumread is HZ, because Umasi is town and HZ commented on Umasi. the read was because he thought hz was using bad logic AND because he posted fluff in the early gameMentions NightCat to be town, Xzavier is scum because Xzavier says Super is scum (Remember Umasi was allowed to do so) he didn't call nightcat town, he didn't like xzavier for lurking and then jumping on him11hours later3rd time sucking up to Umasi. mentions Koshi and Gotard are town. apparently explaining a townread == sucking up now4h 30min laterSuper is alarmed that H.Sponge is disagreeing with him. But maybe Sponge is scummy? Super not making a case but he mentions some things. Eventually a couple times apologizing as well. this is bringing suspicions to the thread and is townieSuper goes to a concert and votes Xzavier. his top scum readyou also leave out all of the posts where he is explaining his reads on hz and Xzav
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On July 15 2013 06:53 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 04:45 Superfluous wrote:
Maybe I didn't make it clear enough in my posts, but my reasons for Hzflank and xzavier were not only because of association. I am suspicious of Hzflank because he had posts which didn't contribute or add anything (he defended it by saying it's his style of getting discussion started) and because he posted early on then didn't post much afterwards. Xzavier didn't post at all, then showed up and basically agreed with what had been said. He also said I was his biggest scum read but wasn't ready yet to vote for me. It struck me the wrong WAY, and I interpreted it as he was waiting for a reason to lynch me, not that he wasn't going to at all. Again, my interpretation here, but I already listed these reasons in previous posts just want to make it clearer. Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 04:51 Superfluous wrote:
I'm pointing out Sponge as a possibility as he has seemed to be clear from suspicion after jrkirby's early pressure. Xzavier is my biggest scum read atm for the reasons listed. I have a gut feeling and really have not liked the tone in his posts. Look at ALL THE REASONS SUPER GIVES. WOOOOWWWWOWWW
You sure suddenly have very strong feelings about Super when he wasn't even a scumread not too long ago. There's no way you honestly believe that those are his only reasons.
I control-F'd "Xzavier" in his filter and here's the reasons I found:
1) Xzav lurked before suddenly jumping on him
2) Xzav read him as scum
3) Xzav hasn't contributed
4) Xzav lurked and then sheeped thread sentiment by voting for him
5) Gut read
I personally agree with points 3 and 4, that's why I don't like Xzav. I find it hard to believe that you honestly missed all of these posts.
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I can link you to every post where he says each of those. I wonder how you missed them all.
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On July 15 2013 07:06 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 07:01 Chromatically wrote:On July 15 2013 06:53 Koshi wrote:On July 14 2013 04:45 Superfluous wrote:
Maybe I didn't make it clear enough in my posts, but my reasons for Hzflank and xzavier were not only because of association. I am suspicious of Hzflank because he had posts which didn't contribute or add anything (he defended it by saying it's his style of getting discussion started) and because he posted early on then didn't post much afterwards. Xzavier didn't post at all, then showed up and basically agreed with what had been said. He also said I was his biggest scum read but wasn't ready yet to vote for me. It struck me the wrong WAY, and I interpreted it as he was waiting for a reason to lynch me, not that he wasn't going to at all. Again, my interpretation here, but I already listed these reasons in previous posts just want to make it clearer. On July 14 2013 04:51 Superfluous wrote:
I'm pointing out Sponge as a possibility as he has seemed to be clear from suspicion after jrkirby's early pressure. Xzavier is my biggest scum read atm for the reasons listed. I have a gut feeling and really have not liked the tone in his posts. Look at ALL THE REASONS SUPER GIVES. WOOOOWWWWOWWW You sure suddenly have very strong feelings about Super when he wasn't even a scumread not too long ago. There's no way you honestly believe that those are his only reasons. I control-F'd "Xzavier" in his filter and here's the reasons I found: 1) Xzav lurked before suddenly jumping on him JEEZ THIS IS SCUMMY2) Xzav read him as scum SO DID UMASI3) Xzav hasn't contributed YES HE DID? READ THE ENTIRE XZAV POST WHERE HE ALSO MENTIONS SUPER 4) Xzav lurked and then sheeped thread sentiment by voting for him SHEEPED WHO? UMASI? 5) Gut read CRAZYYYYYYYYY I personally agree with points 3 and 4, that's why I don't like Xzav. I find it hard to believe that you honestly missed all of these posts. I capslocked my response. I quoted all 3 posts of Super about Xzavier You were able to find 5 points? I am having a feeling that you are all-in on this Kirby vs Super lynch? Chrom, you are going to look very bad when Super turns red. You realise that?
Why are you suddenly defending Xzavier? We're discussing Super, not Xzavier. It doesn't even matter if his points are good (even though 3 and 4 are), it just matters that they exist and come from a town POV.
Super has 7 posts about Xzav. Here are the two:
On July 14 2013 04:29 Superfluous wrote:Going back through the posts, I'm a little alarmed at Hurricane Sponge's change of tone. In this post he disagrees with my opinion and says it casts suspicion on me, but doesnt state that I'm a huge scumread or anything. Here I interpreted his post as acknowledging that while we disagree, I was still trying to state my opinion and reasons for having that view. He then says some weird things here though. For instance, he says that he agrees with others' view of me who had semi-defended me, and in the same list puts me as the only scum read. I realize his view may have changed, but it strikes me especially considering in the second post I listed he acknowledged the possibility of a bandwagon on me just because of differing opinions. We also have a mutual disagreement on reads as well. I don't see how hzflank and xzavier have contributed substantially more than me. While knowing everyone's scum reads is good, I don't like it when people show up, say their scum reads, then expect other people to act on them. As for Stim I think he's more likely bad town then mafia. Then again everyone else is saying the same thing, so could be mafia excuse for not lynching him.
On July 14 2013 04:45 Superfluous wrote:
Maybe I didn't make it clear enough in my posts, but my reasons for Hzflank and xzavier were not only because of association. I am suspicious of Hzflank because he had posts which didn't contribute or add anything (he defended it by saying it's his style of getting discussion started) and because he posted early on then didn't post much afterwards. Xzavier didn't post at all, then showed up and basically agreed with what had been said. He also said I was his biggest scum read but wasn't ready yet to vote for me. It struck me the wrong WAY, and I interpreted it as he was waiting for a reason to lynch me, not that he wasn't going to at all. Again, my interpretation here, but I already listed these reasons in previous posts just want to make it clearer.
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On July 15 2013 07:16 Koshi wrote:Then why is Chroma defending him so hard? He is even making up fucking reasons.
Show nested quote +1) Xzav lurked before suddenly jumping on him
2) Xzav read him as scum
3) Xzav hasn't contributed
4) Xzav lurked and then sheeped thread sentiment by voting for him
5) Gut read I am laughing so hard when I read these reasons after reading the super log over and over.
WHAT
WHAT
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On July 15 2013 07:22 jrkirby wrote:
Yeah, if super flips scum, which I hope, I'd be really suspicious of chrom. But I don't think you should vote him if I die tonight.
Chrom: If I died tonight and flip town, who would you want next? If I hypothetically flipped scum, what then?
Anyone else who wants to answer these questions would be appreciated, But I'd specifically like it from chrom, because he's been pushing my lynch the hardest.
I haven't thought about you flipping town, I'd have to see how the voting goes. I don't really want to devote thought to it
I'd like to see how the voting goes if you flip scum too, but Koshi would pretty much be a for sure lynch.
It's not particularly relevant at all now, it can be discussed after the flip.
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On July 15 2013 07:26 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 07:20 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 15 2013 07:16 Koshi wrote:Then why is Chroma defending him so hard? He is even making up fucking reasons. 1) Xzav lurked before suddenly jumping on him
2) Xzav read him as scum
3) Xzav hasn't contributed
4) Xzav lurked and then sheeped thread sentiment by voting for him
5) Gut read I am laughing so hard when I read these reasons after reading the super log over and over. Because he believes very strongly in his read. This is the towniest thing since Lord Patrick Townington went to townville. He doesn't have a self-preservation instinct because he's town, and not under suspicion. He can throw himself around with abandon like this because he has mental freedom scum does not possess. Attacking Chrom will get you nowhere with me. Focus on the subjects. Chrom's whole defense of Super was that town should put self-preservation first.
You're not this bad.
You were calling Super scum for wanting to stay alive. I am saying that that's not scummy.
It's even in a guide posted at the top of the forum.
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EPT
