EPTNewbie Mini Mafia XLIV - Page 2
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jrkirby
United States1510 Posts
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jrkirby
United States1510 Posts
On July 13 2013 09:30 StiMaDDict wrote: Seriously man.. this is the best you can do? If he has scum post, big deal. For all we know THIS could be his scum post. Who knows. Is this your first game jrkirby? "For all we know, THIS could be his scum post." That's exactly what I was trying to get information on. Here was my reasoning: if this is his scum post, then he won't HAVE a real scum post. But it's been long enough that he could've written another one by now, so no point in pushing it anymore. No, this is my second game, kinda. | ||
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jrkirby
United States1510 Posts
On July 13 2013 09:41 Umasi wrote: Why is there no point in pushing it? There's no reason to not push it if you think it was scummy, and if you were pushing it for the sake of having something to do, just go do something else. Still, more people, what do you think of Superfluous post and then disappearance? Me - "It's been long enough that he could've written another one by now." If he had posted one immediately after I had asked it means something different than if he posts one an hour or two after I asked. Superfluous's post & lurk is bad, but give him a bit, he might show back up. | ||
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jrkirby
United States1510 Posts
On July 13 2013 09:53 Superfluous wrote: To address some things, especially umasi I guess. I apologize for not answering sooner, the other forums I have played on move much slower and there arent 2 and a half pages of posts after being gone for just 3-4 hours. I would be annoyed at your pushing but I think in general its a good town move as it forces information out of people. All I was saying is that, to me, we have a higher chance of lynching town than mafia. We may also end up outing a role prematurely by pushing for a day one lynch. The games that I've played/followed where mafia has 1 kp it's standard to not lynch day one. Here there is no guarantee of cop so it's different, that's why I was asking about others' opinions and not saying we 100% should do it. Sorry if you felt my post was irrelevant but no one else had even pointed it out as an option. I feel like I'm just re stating what I already said in my previous post, not sure what else you want. I think it's foolish to PLAN to not lynch day one. But if I have a choice of lynching someone that I townread, and lynching no one, I will try to lynch no one. I hope other people would follow suit. | ||
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jrkirby
United States1510 Posts
Xzavier Nightcat99 Gotard cloud-9 These players haven't posted anything/enough in my opinion. It's only been a couple hours, so you might be asleep/ at work. But just a PSA, these are currently "lurkers". | ||
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jrkirby
United States1510 Posts
On July 13 2013 10:18 Umasi wrote: Does it really matter if we haven't seen things from other players at this point? It's been two hours since the game began, some people could still be working, etc. The way you popped in, said one thing kinda suspicious, then popped out is what really irks me. Don't apologize and talk about other forums as an excuse, excuses are bad. Reasons are fine, but that didn't feel like a reason to me. We don't need to point out no lynching as an option, because it's BAD No lynching is something that scum would LIKE. I think I said it in the last game I played (too lazy to dig it up,) but the only tool a townie has is their vote, so don't waste it on something like a no lynch. There should always be someone who is objectively "scummiest" that you'd rather vote for than no lynch, have a little confidence. Well, this game is majority lynch, so voting for the "scummiest" person could be what causes a lynch not to happen. I'm pretty sure scum wouldn't mind lynching town either. | ||
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jrkirby
United States1510 Posts
On July 13 2013 10:23 Chromatically wrote: Kirby, who do you think is scum? Honestly? I have real trouble seeing scum until I see voting patterns. I'm slightly more suspicious of Sponge, Umasi, and Rainbows than the rest. Sponge I've stated my reasons for. I don't really trust my read on Rainbows because [meta here] I thought he was scum last time I played with him and he wasn't. Umasi just reads a bit ornery, so that could be the reason for my weak read. My vote on hzflank was kinda a combo of joke/pressure as you guys pointed out. It got a bit of discussion, but didn't get much of a rise out of hzflank, who I currently have null read on. I guess I should unvote him now, since the pressure obviously didn't do too much. ##unvote: hzflank | ||
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jrkirby
United States1510 Posts
On July 13 2013 10:25 Umasi wrote: wait, what do you mean kirby? am I misunderstanding how the lynch works? If two players have five votes on them, the first one to five gets lynched, am I wrong? Have I horribly misunderstood something? It's majority lynch, so if we have 13 players, 7 of them need to agree to secure a lynch, I believe. This is correct, right? | ||
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jrkirby
United States1510 Posts
On July 13 2013 10:42 Rainbows wrote: I play exactly the same as scum and town imo. Last game was just me being frustrated and correct :p lol. You should fear the Rainbows. Anyone think this could be a scumslip? He seems the kind that might want to subtly brag about it if he were scum. | ||
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jrkirby
United States1510 Posts
On July 13 2013 10:56 Umasi wrote: He came in, emphasized his newness to the game, and it felt like he was giving excuses for not posting, not reasons. (I realize that they're extremely similar, but I think it's a matter of tone) the timing he came in at (right when we brought up lurkers) to be like "I'm trying not to lurk" is just kind of......weird? I think it's out of place and scummy. He said he couldn't be in here at the beginning before the game started, right? No real reason to have suspicion on the lurkers yet, just note that they're lurking. | ||
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jrkirby
United States1510 Posts
On July 13 2013 13:14 StiMaDDict wrote: Apparently I'm the scummiest fucking bastard in this game. Jump on board the StiM wagon and earn easy town cred! You know, I'm done. Contribute? Yeah fucking right. Sit in front of the computer for 6 fucking hours refreshing and trying to god damn contribute and what I get is "so you weren't angry but you pretended to be angry?" Town shouldn't lie about that. I wasn't fucking lying. Jesus. w/e. Cool it dude. For all you know, the people voting for you could be scum trying to get you riled up. Just calm down, post reads, question things, and have a good game. You won't play your best when you're tilting. You're in no way doomed right now. | ||
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jrkirby
United States1510 Posts
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jrkirby
United States1510 Posts
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jrkirby
United States1510 Posts
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jrkirby
United States1510 Posts
On July 14 2013 05:56 Chromatically wrote: + Show Spoiler + Kirby Stim's case on Kirby takes a lot of stuff that's not scummy and says it is, but it also has good points (some of which are probably repeated here). Here's what I don't like: a) fluff about Sponge's first post b) wishy-washy reads c) lurker list d) Stim interactions a) fluff about Sponge's first post A large amount of Kirby's early posting is talking about Sponge's pregame post and trying to get him to post it. He only starts doing this light pressure AFTER I start it. On July 13 2013 08:33 Chromatically wrote: Why did you include this? Are you saying you wouldn't have posted this if you were scum? Scum are always looking for some way to post so that they seem town without actually doing anything. This pregame thing is something VERY easy for scum to comment on and lightly push. He notices that I'm a little suspicious and seizes on it so that he can post something at all. Notice how very lightly he's pressuring: On July 13 2013 08:48 jrkirby wrote: So then show us the post that you would have posted if you rolled scum, eh? On July 13 2013 09:03 jrkirby wrote: You ought to post it anyway. Having something that you'd post on the condition that you're scum is foolish in any respect, even if no one knows what it is. Ideally, a scum player would want to post the same way as scum as they do town in almost all situations. The first one is a conversational question, the second one is a suggestion. When I pressure someone I think is suspicious, I don't "suggest" things to them and tell them "what they ought to do". He doesn't actually care about getting the post, he just wants to look like he does. b) wishy-washy reads On July 13 2013 09:22 jrkirby wrote: Pretty much what you said was: meta is bad, this is the meta that I might accidentally do. That's fine, neither particularly good nor bad imo. But you claimed that you would only post it on the condition that you were town. You admit to having a post that you would post on the condition that you're scum (which I think is foolish), but you won't show it to us, and that's just a tiny bit suspicious. On July 13 2013 09:46 jrkirby wrote: Me - "It's been long enough that he could've written another one by now." If he had posted one immediately after I had asked it means something different than if he posts one an hour or two after I asked. Superfluous's post & lurk is bad, but give him a bit, he might show back up. On July 13 2013 10:32 jrkirby wrote: Honestly? I have real trouble seeing scum until I see voting patterns. I'm slightly more suspicious of Sponge, Umasi, and Rainbows than the rest. Sponge I've stated my reasons for. I don't really trust my read on Rainbows because [meta here] I thought he was scum last time I played with him and he wasn't. Umasi just reads a bit ornery, so that could be the reason for my weak read. My vote on hzflank was kinda a combo of joke/pressure as you guys pointed out. It got a bit of discussion, but didn't get much of a rise out of hzflank, who I currently have null read on. I guess I should unvote him now, since the pressure obviously didn't do too much. ##unvote: hzflank This is just generic wishy-washiness and unwillingness to commit to reads. Townies have at least some scum reads that they provide to the thread and push, at least a little. Kirby hasn't pushed a scumread all game. Kirby hasn't even had a scumread that he couldn't easily back out of. As scum, Kirby can easily justify a vote on anyone now because he doesn't have any reads out there. c) lurker list On July 13 2013 10:13 jrkirby wrote: Koshi Xzavier Nightcat99 Gotard cloud-9 These players haven't posted anything/enough in my opinion. It's only been a couple hours, so you might be asleep/ at work. But just a PSA, these are currently "lurkers". This should be pretty obvious, but lurker lists are scummy in general. Everyone knows who hasn't posted. There's no reason to post something like this as town, it's totally useless. Scum sometimes do stuff like this because they really really want to look useful. Scum think that lists like this will look pro town and give them something to post about so that they seem active. d) Stim interactions On July 13 2013 09:32 jrkirby wrote: Keep your cool stim, rainbows just misinterpreted your post, that's all. On July 13 2013 13:21 jrkirby wrote: Cool it dude. For all you know, the people voting for you could be scum trying to get you riled up. Just calm down, post reads, question things, and have a good game. You won't play your best when you're tilting. You're in no way doomed right now. Kirby consoles Stim twice during the game. Read both of these (especially the second one), and ask yourself why does it seem like Kirby KNOWS that Stim is town? Look at that second quote. "You won't play your best when you're tilting." There's not a HINT of doubt in that post that Stim is town. That's not something that you post to someone that you're even slightly suspicious of. "Well this makes sense if he has a town read on Stim, right?" On July 13 2013 13:38 jrkirby wrote: I don't think he's town. I think he's stupid, and have a nullread. Apart from the simple fact that he's trying to leave his options open to switch on the wagon later, this is COMPLETELY at odds with his subconscious attitude toward Stim in the previous conversation. ##Unvote ##Vote: jrkirby a)"fluff about Sponge's first post" That wasn't "fluff." Yes, I wasn't downright downright accusing Hurricane of being scum. But I explained all the reasons for what I was doing, and why. Hurricane didn't blow up, or take the bait too hard, so I'm still not convinced he's scum. But he did have something he claims he wrote on the condition he rolled scum that he wasn't willing to post. And you should all be wondering if maybe there's a another reason why he wouldn't post it. My goal wasn't to get the post, necessarily. It was to see his reaction, and judge whether he was telling the truth. Besides, to continue pushing him much further would be pointless, because as I said, a scum hurricane could have just written another one by then. I showed something of value: hurricane wasn't willing to post something that he had written for this mafia game. Unfortunately, that by itself is not damning, so there wasn't much I could do but let it drop. If I had continued the pressure, you'd be on my case for how I was "hard core tunneling hurricane sponge." b) wishy-washy reads I said this before, and I'll say it again: I have real trouble seeing scum until I see voting patterns. Fortunately, I have seen a bit of voting now, so right after this post, I'm gonna dive some filters, read some scum, and give a vote. Anyway, who can really give confident scum reads halfway through day one? Anyone one who pretends that they can is either overconfident and bullshitting themselves, or actually scum. c) lurker list Yeah, I posted a list of people who hadn't posted. Wait, that's scummy? I don't get that. Why don't we say everyone who scumhunts is scummy, because "Scum sometimes do stuff like this because they really really want to look useful." I'm not gonna say that you should give me kudos for posting a list of lurkers. You're right, it takes 30 seconds and anyone could do it. But that doesn't make me scum. d) Stim interactions I tend to think that people who get voted a lot day one tend to be town, simply because scum can defend themselves easily day one with no previous associations. But no, I don't "KNOW" stim is town. And when I'm talking to someone to try to help them calm down, I'm going to phrase it from a "we're both town" perspective. Doing it any other way is going to backfire. Seems like he's calmed down now, took him long enough. Stim: if you get riled up like that again, well, just don't. Ok, In 15 minutes I'll have a post with scumreads. I already have someone in mind. I can answer more questions and should be here till day end. I might not have answered all the accusations on me, and if you have more to point at me, ask it again, I probably read it but didn't stop to specifically address it (but I'm sure I have an answer for you). I know Hurricane Sponge had a post on me, I'll get to that after some scumreads. | ||
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jrkirby
United States1510 Posts
Jrkirby looks like a better lynch than Superfluous right now. What? You think that you can just sheep me because of the two biggest bandwagons, you like this one better? You think you don't need to do anything, and it's just fine to jump on whatever BW you see fit? Because that is NOT ok. You better pick up your play, because that is scum. He reiterates a couple of things other people have said, and doesn't even get all of it, and misinterprets even basic things: His post claiming that hzflank is mafia was awkward and then he defended himself saying that it was only a joke/pressure combo. That was like the third post of the day, and I was quoting things that happened before the game even started. If you thought there was a chance that it was completely serious, then you weren't paying much attention. On top of that, he's barely posted, hasn't posted an original scumread, and has pressured no one. Guys, I think we found scum. Vote: Gotard | ||
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jrkirby
United States1510 Posts
On July 15 2013 01:59 StiMaDDict wrote: @jkirby: I know you said you are working on your reads right now, just reminding you to elaborate and explain this. Elaboration: What is the real scumtell at the end of the day? Who they voted for, when and why. Any scum can say anything they like, for example, they could choose to post a list of lurkers or choose not to post a list of lurkers. While some people might think that what they say is the scumtell, for example, Chromatically thinks anyone who posts a list of lurkers is automatically scum, in the end, scum can choose either way, and act as townish as they possibly can. Where the scum CAN'T hide, is their vote. Scum always vote with another reason behind it. They might buss each other, they might sheep, might spread out, might vote together. But at the end of the day, they vote with a different reason than town. And looking at how they vote is how you can find that. If no one has voted, I really don't think that you can find scum better than chance. | ||
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jrkirby
United States1510 Posts
On July 15 2013 02:14 Chromatically wrote: LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL Not quite sure why you'd feel the need to blatantly and obviously misrepresent my case on you if you're town. That wasn't my defense, that was just a pit of satirical exaggeration. | ||
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jrkirby
United States1510 Posts
But right now super & jkirby both blink bright red on my scumdar. Soon after it's clear we both have a BW on us. Pretty much sheeping to me. And it's only a couple hours for the deadline, so I wouldn't be surprised if he BW's someone without much discussion or reason. Also most of his posts have been about his schedule, instead of about the game. If THAT isn't fluff, what is? | ||
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jrkirby
United States1510 Posts
On July 15 2013 02:28 Chromatically wrote: He gives this as the purpose for the posts: Well what has he gotten? Nothing! His read on Sponge was totally unaffected. He was pressuring Sponge for no reason, which is scum. What? Pressuring someone with no reason at the beginning of day 1 is scum? Why? It only gets town more information. If done properly (maybe better than I can do it) on a poor player (maybe a player worse than Sponge) who is actually just so happens to be scum, then you'll be able to get a very good scumread. Just because I wasn't successful with flying colors doesn't mean that a) we didn't get any information, or b) it was scummy. | ||
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