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Basterd Mini Mafia - Page 23

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Oatsmaster
Profile Joined October 2012
United States16628 Posts
July 01 2013 02:15 GMT
#441
I KNOWWWWWWWWW

Its a subtle thing between knowing and thinking gumshoe. Rayn knows. I think.
No gg, No skill.
Oatsmaster
Profile Joined October 2012
United States16628 Posts
July 01 2013 02:16 GMT
#442
I like people who hop on the rayn train considering its by far not the easiest lynch to happen.
No gg, No skill.
gumshoe
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada3602 Posts
July 01 2013 02:17 GMT
#443
On July 01 2013 11:02 JarJarDrinks wrote:
OK. Rayne's kinda convinced me that he's town over the last few pages. I think he's legit pissed @ oats. I'd prefer not lynching rayn (though if I have to vote him to save myself I obviously will).

I laid out my case against Solstice already. He'd be my preferred lynch today.


Wow, flip flop much? Also a willingness to vote for someone you think is good to save yourself... is towny how?
gumshoe bullshitting at 120%~~Prplz
JarJarDrinks
Profile Joined March 2013
United States1302 Posts
July 01 2013 02:22 GMT
#444
On July 01 2013 11:17 gumshoe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 01 2013 11:02 JarJarDrinks wrote:
OK. Rayne's kinda convinced me that he's town over the last few pages. I think he's legit pissed @ oats. I'd prefer not lynching rayn (though if I have to vote him to save myself I obviously will).

I laid out my case against Solstice already. He'd be my preferred lynch today.


Wow, flip flop much? Also a willingness to vote for someone you think is good to save yourself... is towny how?
Is this a serious question? Because I know for a fact that I am town. If I get lynched, the town is definately 100% losing a townie.
JarJarDrinks
Profile Joined March 2013
United States1302 Posts
July 01 2013 02:24 GMT
#445
I mean, I don't even understand how you can ask that? Are you saying that you'd be willing to stick your head in a noose if it would save someone that you have a town read on?
s0Lstice
Profile Joined August 2009
United States1832 Posts
July 01 2013 02:29 GMT
#446
back and caught up.

Lazer is back to null for me. Few things..I actually like how he treated the Vayne thing. You can see the recognition in his posts that Vayne must be a lightning rod in every game he plays in, and he asked where instead he could have attacked. I like too that he defended Rayn against thread sentiment here:

On June 30 2013 20:29 Lazermonkey wrote:
My biggest problem with Rayn being scum atm is the fact that it seems that he took an unnecessarily hard aproach to the whole Marv being miller thing. Why couldn't he just say something like "you you guys are right" and avoid all this shit at him? Stuff like this is more likely to come from a stubborn townie IMO.


Speaking of Rayn, I do not want to lynch him today. This thing with Marv is being blown way out of proportion. There is easy town motivation for Rayn being comfortable with Marv based on his claim. It literally boils down 'Marv is unlikely to fakeclaim miller 5 minutes into the game.' This is not an unreasonable thought. It's not about whether you agree with the assessment, it's about whether or not it makes sense for town Rayn to think this, or rather, if there is equally plausible town motivation for doing so. I say there is...how many times have you seen a townie give another townie green points for a miller claim?

Now, in regards to Stutters...his response to the Rayn thing:

On June 30 2013 22:46 Stutters695 wrote:
Alright, I'm catching up now. Jesus Christ I didn't expect that type of response. I'll go through and answer people's questions and get my reads out in a bit.

To answer the main question though, it was early d1. I wanted to see how he'd react to an accusation. I did find it weird he was so sure there was 1 miller and there is the possibility he could be scum and assume because he/his teammate got RB he accidentally slipped that town had to have better PRs than miller. Obviously since no one else claimed, it is impossible, but after the triple cop claim and double mason fiasco in Les Mis I'm a bit weary of people who "know"how the setup is supposed to be.

With that said though his reaction and thought process makes him the towniest motherfucker here. Especially after themed, I really doubt he'd be scum.

Now catching up.


The explanation makes sense, but I find myself immediately not caring because of the follow-up on Rayn being the towniest etc. Oats commented on this, and Vivax summed up my thoughts pretty much with this:

On July 01 2013 00:24 Vivax wrote:
I can look it up myself I guess:

Show nested quote +

rofl what's this? An accusation? Now if i was mafia how would i know how many millers there are in the game?
Also could you answer the quesions about Lazer/WoS?


Show nested quote +
Actually no, Stutters' last post makes no sense from town point of view.
##Vote: Stutters


Show nested quote +

What do you think about Stutters? Mainly his posts about the miller thing. They are really really bad.


Show nested quote +
On June 30 2013 07:22 Stutters695 wrote:
Why are they bad?


So basically, what makes Rayn so townie is that he asks a question you don't answer, votes for you, and asks me to look at you.

Then, when so many agree on you looking bad, he switches to WoS, asking us to find the reason, I still don't see him mentioning that reason by himself in his filter.

So basically, you, his first scumread, never answered his question (which you could do now btw). He proceeds to drop a vote on WoS, then is busy defending himself, but nevertheless he doesn't try to find reasons for you or WoS to be decent lynches.

So yeah, I kinda have trouble seeing how his reaction is so townie in your opinion.

Happy birthday by the way.


Also this chain of posts seriously makes my skin crawl:

+ Show Spoiler +



On July 01 2013 03:47 Stutters695 wrote:
You're misunderstanding. I'm leaning scum on him now, that was explaining why I thought he was town when I woke up this morning and did a quick skim.

Although I do think accepting a miller claim isn't unreasonable. It essentially is just having someone say "hey, don't check me because you'll waste your power (pre-parity announcement) and cause a mislynch."

It doesn't in any way confirm Marv, but ensures he is judged on the basis of his actual play. That he's so sure Marv is town is worrisome but I can see where he is coming from to a certain extent. I also don't like how many people are slipping by saying absolutely nothing. Even if we lynch him we should hear his reads and force these hardcore lurkers to post something.


On July 01 2013 03:50 Stutters695 wrote:
I guess part of it is how easy this has been that's concerning me. Scum could be sitting idly by arguing between us but when everyone active is on Rayn we'll get nothing going forward, we should at least look into a couple other people.


On July 01 2013 04:15 Stutters695 wrote:
@WoS Je m'en fous

This is how I always play. My day 1 reads are notoriously bad. I find generating discussion to be a much better use of my time.




I literally have no idea what he thinks of Rayn. Leaning scum, but then offers repeated hedges against the notion? It's filled with trepidation. Yea, I still want to kill this guy.

Also, Vivax is looking town. Don't drink and post I guess, dude.

##vote Stutters
ATOBTTR
gumshoe
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada3602 Posts
July 01 2013 02:32 GMT
#447
On July 01 2013 11:24 JarJarDrinks wrote:
I mean, I don't even understand how you can ask that? Are you saying that you'd be willing to stick your head in a noose if it would save someone that you have a town read on?


My point is you dont sound like your in it to find scum or help town at this point, your just trying to not piss people off and survive the day. And honestly do you think I can treat the old "I'm town so towns gonna get hurt when I die" with any value whatsoever?
gumshoe bullshitting at 120%~~Prplz
gumshoe
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada3602 Posts
July 01 2013 02:38 GMT
#448
On July 01 2013 11:16 Oatsmaster wrote:
I like people who hop on the rayn train considering its by far not the easiest lynch to happen.


Really? At this point it's had more support at one point than another than any other lynch. In fact it was definitely up there as most likely before I pointed out Jar Jar. I view it as an easy lynch over meh reasons, and proper scum lynches are never easy.
gumshoe bullshitting at 120%~~Prplz
gumshoe
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada3602 Posts
July 01 2013 02:38 GMT
#449
Kk Im done for tonight, later all. Gl
gumshoe bullshitting at 120%~~Prplz
JarJarDrinks
Profile Joined March 2013
United States1302 Posts
July 01 2013 02:51 GMT
#450
On July 01 2013 11:32 gumshoe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 01 2013 11:24 JarJarDrinks wrote:
I mean, I don't even understand how you can ask that? Are you saying that you'd be willing to stick your head in a noose if it would save someone that you have a town read on?


My point is you dont sound like your in it to find scum or help town at this point, your just trying to not piss people off and survive the day.
No, that wasn't your point. You asked me how it was townish to be willing to vote someone that I had a townread on to save myself. You were not saying or even implying anything about me not pissing people off. You jumped on a statement I made and tried to call it scummy which it wasn't @ all. Which you are straight up admitting by not answering my question.


And honestly do you think I can treat the old "I'm town so towns gonna get hurt when I die" with any value whatsoever?
And then here you try to twist it around like I'm trying to use it to make myself seem more town when YOU'RE the one who asked the question.
Oatsmaster
Profile Joined October 2012
United States16628 Posts
July 01 2013 02:52 GMT
#451
On July 01 2013 11:38 gumshoe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 01 2013 11:16 Oatsmaster wrote:
I like people who hop on the rayn train considering its by far not the easiest lynch to happen.


Really? At this point it's had more support at one point than another than any other lynch. In fact it was definitely up there as most likely before I pointed out Jar Jar. I view it as an easy lynch over meh reasons, and proper scum lynches are never easy.

nope.
Vote rayn though
No gg, No skill.
s0Lstice
Profile Joined August 2009
United States1832 Posts
July 01 2013 03:00 GMT
#452
Aside from Stutters, I'm getting suspicious of JarJar because meta.

In Les Mis, as scum, he has a laser focus on BH

In one of his newb games, as scum, he has a laser focus on jkirby.

In Roulette, as town, he pushes Oats, but also expresses suspicions towards WoS and Sentinel.

In another newb game, as town, he goes after TheRavensName, and also Frogron almost equally.

Links to these games are in this spoiler, have a look:
+ Show Spoiler +

Les Mis (scum)
NMM XL (scum)
Roulette (town)
NMM XXIX (town)


I'm typically not a fan of including newb games in a meta argument, but it's definitely enough to make me nervous of JarJar.

I want to know who is scum outside of me, JarJar, and why.



ATOBTTR
JarJarDrinks
Profile Joined March 2013
United States1302 Posts
July 01 2013 03:13 GMT
#453
On July 01 2013 12:00 s0Lstice wrote:
I want to know who is scum outside of me, JarJar, and why.
Glad u asked .


pretty sure gumshoe is scum

All gumshoe has done is look for miniscule things that he can label piggybacker/flip-flopper/etc...

And he's calling people out a bunch because of activity issues just because they leave the thread for a bit. Look @ all of these posts:
On June 30 2013 13:04 gumshoe wrote:
My issue is he takes off after pressure turns on him, he stops contributing in hopes of saving himself, that strikes me as a noob scum messing up and trying to wait out the pressure.
On July 01 2013 04:34 gumshoe wrote:
Thats because the pressure put on Stutters wasn't necessarily meant to secure a vote on him, it was there to push Stutters to react and force sides. Instead Stutters backed off until the heat blew over, I dont believe for a second that he just happened to leave for half a day right after people started putting pressure on him,this is what I find inherently scummy about his play. The town move would be to stay in chat, confront accusations and attempt to contribute and redirect town discussion, which Rayne has done (albiet somewhat unsuccessfully considering everyone and they're mom wont let the miller thing drop for an hour even).
On July 01 2013 05:02 gumshoe wrote:
I also am not dropping the case on you not because your generaly inactive, but because of a certain period in which you were inactive, a stretch of time wherein we could of used you to clarify things, contribute and clear your name, instead you vanished at a critical moment and that felt to me like you were trying to regroup with scum and wait things out. Which worked, nobodies really mad at you anymore, so of course your here now eager to help.
On July 01 2013 06:13 gumshoe wrote:
Lastly, isn't it funny how Jar Jar's been gone all day then jumps in once the heat builds? Hes either actively not contributing or someone gave him a heads up .
I mean, look @ this last post. How are those the only options? How about "He's doing something unrelated to the game on a Sunday Afternoon"? He's trying to cast suspicion based on stuff that are outside the realm of the game. Like what does he mean by someone gave me a heads up once the heat built up? Is he implying that I wasn't following the game thread but I was following the scum thread and someone there told me I need to go post?

Also look @ that 2nd post where he says "the pressure put on Stutters wasn't necessarily meant to secure a vote on him, it was there to push Stutters to react and force sides.". But that wasn't really what he said when he was supecting stutters earlier
On June 30 2013 12:37 gumshoe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 30 2013 12:25 Oatsmaster wrote:
He instantly buddied marv after his miller claim which doesnt 100% confirm marv as town.

Its was like
'Miller claim please'
'im miller'
'k lets win game together marv'

Does anyone else not see that something is wrong?


Pretty much my reasoning a little whole ago XD but actively looking for miller as a bud isn't scummy, its neutral, I would rather see what stutters pops, because he's less of an asset. If he flips red I cant see Ryan being scum, if we blindly lynch Rayne and he's town that'll just suck. Basically I rather risk stutters before Ryane XD. And yes this game is about hunting scum, not doing risk assessment but Rayne looks suspicious because he's in to good a manufactured position and stutters looks suspicious because he's made a mistake. I find the latter usually more damming so I swing more scum on him at the moment and it doesn't hurt that were risking less.

It only became about pressuring stutters after the fact because gumshoe was pushing his "Stutters left the thread because he was scum and couldn't handle the pressure" agenda.


And lastly, since I know I'm town (I know that no one else can know this but I'm giving my own reasons) and there are 3 people voting me. Odds are that 1 of em is scum since I'd imagine they'd want to spread their vote around.

vote: gumshoe
s0Lstice
Profile Joined August 2009
United States1832 Posts
July 01 2013 04:02 GMT
#454
wow that was quick service lol.

its pretty clear you were writing that while I was reading your past games. if the meta doesn't hold, it doesn't hold.

I'm very frustrated in regards to you JJ. I feel like the combination of you suspecting me for bad reasons and misreading you in Les Mis is really fucking with me. I think the wise thing is to wait and see a bit.

I definitely need to read gumshoe. I haven't had time to look hard at his filter after a feel based town read, so he's a bit of a blindspot for me.

ATOBTTR
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43268 Posts
July 01 2013 04:40 GMT
#455
On July 01 2013 10:58 Oatsmaster wrote:
JJD will not flip scum.

Can i devote the rest of the game telling how Oats is scum because he knows JJD is town and nothing he ever says after this can change it?
table for two on a tv tray
Oatsmaster
Profile Joined October 2012
United States16628 Posts
July 01 2013 04:42 GMT
#456
On July 01 2013 13:40 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 01 2013 10:58 Oatsmaster wrote:
JJD will not flip scum.

Can i devote the rest of the game telling how Oats is scum because he knows JJD is town and nothing he ever says after this can change it?

sure you can
No gg, No skill.
Vivax
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
21972 Posts
July 01 2013 07:57 GMT
#457
Stutters works for me, s0lstice. In fact he's very compatible with a Rayn + LM scum theory given their early aggression towards each other and the suspicious backpedaling. It gave me the impression of scum distancing.

The posts you mention I also noticed earlier, especially the part with the "I see where he's coming from". Not only is he giving out a quite half-assed, unclear defense, but matter of fact is that him arguing for marv being town wasn't really related to my reasons for thinking that Rayn is scum, cause that was for being too sure too quickly about marv and with reasons that seem fake in my opinion.

It makes me curious to know why he thinks that marv is town though. So far the only reason that have been used were "He doesn't have the balls to do it as scum early", when I clearly posted evidence that he does.
Marv should have been obviously a null for his actions, but stutters then found him townie as well as another argument for defending Rayn.

Anyhow, this is how Rayn is pushing his scumread, "flip-flopping" and "buddying" are his arguments without further clarification:

On July 01 2013 04:49 raynpelikoneet wrote:
JarJar makes also a good lynch for what he has said so far.


On July 01 2013 05:06 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Oats why don't you look at JarJar if i flip town? The guy is flip-flopping around and buddying you about his read on me and has pretty much.. no actually.. none other thoughts.


Appeals to emotion, thinks about his flip:

On July 01 2013 04:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Oats if you by some miracle get me lynched i will laugh at you so hard post game when marv dies N1 and you just lost, not only your whole D1 in analysis and two townies that are amongst the strongest players here.


______________________________________________________________________________________________________

On July 01 2013 10:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I'm kinda done here.

##Unvote:
##Vote: JarJarDrinks


Lynch me if you want to, when i flip lynch JarJar and when he flips red lynch Vivax.
Look closely into WoS and Fuba.

I may post something tomorrow if my schedule is not too tight. I was planning on doing some scumhunting today but Oats/Vivax effectively shut me down, and i don't know how much i can be online tomorrow.

Sad thing is that Oats is town. Stutters is probably town aswell. I think marv is still town. I think Lazer is probably town, as i think Vivax is scum. It could be the other way around though. I think solstice is town. I have no idea about Vayne, but PoE says town. Oh and gumshoe is definitely town.


Goes all badass like "lynch me if you want to", but whines that he has to defend himself and can't scumhunt.
He clearly doesn't think that voting his scumread for those semi-reasons can be considered scumhunting.

At last, he gives out all those townreads, effectively leaving me: Me, fuba, WoS, JJD for possible scum.
But yeah, apparently poor Rayne has to defend himself and doesn't think that arguing for someone being more likely
scum is a form of defense as well.

Hence I'll be expecting him to deliver on this front.
Lazermonkey
Profile Joined June 2011
Sweden2176 Posts
July 01 2013 08:00 GMT
#458
So, I'm going to be quite busy today. I will be able to phone post a tiny bit but hats about it. Maybe I'll have more time closer to deadline though that is not certain.

For the love of god, don't kill Rayn. His posting has been extremly towie recently!
Vivax
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
21972 Posts
July 01 2013 08:03 GMT
#459
On July 01 2013 12:13 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 01 2013 12:00 s0Lstice wrote:
I want to know who is scum outside of me, JarJar, and why.
Glad u asked .


pretty sure gumshoe is scum

All gumshoe has done is look for miniscule things that he can label piggybacker/flip-flopper/etc...

And he's calling people out a bunch because of activity issues just because they leave the thread for a bit. Look @ all of these posts:
Show nested quote +
On June 30 2013 13:04 gumshoe wrote:
My issue is he takes off after pressure turns on him, he stops contributing in hopes of saving himself, that strikes me as a noob scum messing up and trying to wait out the pressure.
Show nested quote +
On July 01 2013 04:34 gumshoe wrote:
Thats because the pressure put on Stutters wasn't necessarily meant to secure a vote on him, it was there to push Stutters to react and force sides. Instead Stutters backed off until the heat blew over, I dont believe for a second that he just happened to leave for half a day right after people started putting pressure on him,this is what I find inherently scummy about his play. The town move would be to stay in chat, confront accusations and attempt to contribute and redirect town discussion, which Rayne has done (albiet somewhat unsuccessfully considering everyone and they're mom wont let the miller thing drop for an hour even).
Show nested quote +
On July 01 2013 05:02 gumshoe wrote:
I also am not dropping the case on you not because your generaly inactive, but because of a certain period in which you were inactive, a stretch of time wherein we could of used you to clarify things, contribute and clear your name, instead you vanished at a critical moment and that felt to me like you were trying to regroup with scum and wait things out. Which worked, nobodies really mad at you anymore, so of course your here now eager to help.
Show nested quote +
On July 01 2013 06:13 gumshoe wrote:
Lastly, isn't it funny how Jar Jar's been gone all day then jumps in once the heat builds? Hes either actively not contributing or someone gave him a heads up .
I mean, look @ this last post. How are those the only options? How about "He's doing something unrelated to the game on a Sunday Afternoon"? He's trying to cast suspicion based on stuff that are outside the realm of the game. Like what does he mean by someone gave me a heads up once the heat built up? Is he implying that I wasn't following the game thread but I was following the scum thread and someone there told me I need to go post?

Also look @ that 2nd post where he says "the pressure put on Stutters wasn't necessarily meant to secure a vote on him, it was there to push Stutters to react and force sides.". But that wasn't really what he said when he was supecting stutters earlier
Show nested quote +
On June 30 2013 12:37 gumshoe wrote:
On June 30 2013 12:25 Oatsmaster wrote:
He instantly buddied marv after his miller claim which doesnt 100% confirm marv as town.

Its was like
'Miller claim please'
'im miller'
'k lets win game together marv'

Does anyone else not see that something is wrong?


Pretty much my reasoning a little whole ago XD but actively looking for miller as a bud isn't scummy, its neutral, I would rather see what stutters pops, because he's less of an asset. If he flips red I cant see Ryan being scum, if we blindly lynch Rayne and he's town that'll just suck. Basically I rather risk stutters before Ryane XD. And yes this game is about hunting scum, not doing risk assessment but Rayne looks suspicious because he's in to good a manufactured position and stutters looks suspicious because he's made a mistake. I find the latter usually more damming so I swing more scum on him at the moment and it doesn't hurt that were risking less.

It only became about pressuring stutters after the fact because gumshoe was pushing his "Stutters left the thread because he was scum and couldn't handle the pressure" agenda.


And lastly, since I know I'm town (I know that no one else can know this but I'm giving my own reasons) and there are 3 people voting me. Odds are that 1 of em is scum since I'd imagine they'd want to spread their vote around.

vote: gumshoe


On July 01 2013 08:35 Vivax wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 01 2013 08:22 JarJarDrinks wrote:
On July 01 2013 06:38 Vivax wrote:
JarJar, question for you.

Rayn gave Lazer a townread as reaction to me doing the same.
Why did you call Rayn out but not me?
Good point. I just didnt notice anything else scummy from you nor was I really looking. I only noticed it from rayn after I went back into his filter.


Who do you think could be scum outside of s0lstice?

As you may have noticed I'm for Rayn and Lazer scum atm. Their explanations become increasingly dangly, hence I'd like you to take a look at the matter and comment on it.

If you don't think they're worthy of the noose, please give me a rundown on why I should be voting s0lstice instead of them.


This question is kinda old now but you left it unanswered.
You didn't comment on the Rayn/Lazer/Me matter at all.

New question: What happened to your s0lstice scumread?
Oatsmaster
Profile Joined October 2012
United States16628 Posts
July 01 2013 08:11 GMT
#460
On July 01 2013 17:00 Lazermonkey wrote:

For the love of god, don't kill Rayn. His posting has been extremly towie recently!

Expain
No gg, No skill.
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