EPTwill try less tunneling this time..
Newbie Mini Mafia XLIII
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StiMaDDict
Korea (South)313 Posts
will try less tunneling this time.. | ||
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StiMaDDict
Korea (South)313 Posts
On June 20 2013 04:31 FirmTofu wrote: /in You, sir, has one of the best name I've ever seen. I just find it entertaining :D | ||
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StiMaDDict
Korea (South)313 Posts
On June 20 2013 10:40 fferyllt wrote: /obs What's up, fferyllt. Good see you again around TL Mafia :D | ||
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Korea (South)313 Posts
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Forgive her for me this once. Please? Is there a way to change the account name? else I will tell her to make another account. | ||
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Korea (South)313 Posts
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Korea (South)313 Posts
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StiMaDDict
Korea (South)313 Posts
On June 23 2013 08:02 StiMaDDict wrote: Is SK's KP compulsory? If it's on OP, sorry.. Oh fuck me.. "First, you may shoot someone every night." | ||
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Korea (South)313 Posts
 On a unrelated note.. LoL community is fucking stupid and rude. Love Starcraft community, much more matured and polite <3 | ||
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Gosh, this is so bandwagoning.. Will elaborate in couple of hours. | ||
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StiMaDDict
Korea (South)313 Posts
1) NN is useless and do more harm to town than good if left unclaimed. + Show Spoiler + This role is similar to a Miller in that it isn't useful for town at all, and could seriously backfire if they are watched/tracked/whatever by a townie. 2) There is no drawback for town from NN claim. + Show Spoiler + I don't see any downside to a Nosy Neighbour claiming, the worst case is that they play obvtown, get shot, and draw a shot away from actual town power roles. 3) Mafia can't fake claim NN later on if they are caught visiting later in the game. + Show Spoiler + The biggest reason a Nosy Neighbour should claim now is that it eliminates the possibility of a scum fake-claiming it later if he is caught shooting/using a PR on someone. I have no problem with proposing an idea and giving proper reasonings, however assuming certain things, contradicting logics, and planting a wrong idea to others, are things which I see as scum behaviors. First, he goes ahead and pronounce to the world that NN is useless. Furthermore, NN will harm town by confusing our blues. Sidestepping from the argument whether NN should claim or not, he plants an idea that NN is bad. It is town's goal to get as many advantages as possible from what we are given, not to eliminate certain role as useless right on. Second, he assumes that watcher or tracker will not be able to figure out who the mafia is. Think about it for a second. It is very rare that NN will visit the same target mafia will visit. Even if it is the case, it is two out of one. They can incorporate that information to their scumreads. Third, why would it be a good thing if NN get shot for playing good town. It would be good for mafia of course. Fourth, this is the most bothering thing. Mafia can't fake claim NN if they are caught visiting. How would we find out mafia was visiting? Unless tracker/watcher claims (not a good thing) telling the town that they saw it. Basically Also if there aren't more than 1 person visiting the victim, isn't it obvious that he is mafia regardless of what he says? Incorporating his later posts.. + Show Spoiler + That's certainly a possibility, but I think it's more important that we deny scum the opportunity to fakeclaim Nosy Neighbour later. + Show Spoiler + It's more likely that town (with two possible track/watch roles) will be misled by an unclaimed Nosy Neighbour than scum. I'd prefer to know that anyone claiming it later is scum than to have scum know that one particular person does not have a PR. Scum generally prioritize shooting strong townies over blue-sniping anyway, and if a claimed Nosy Neighbour (who is thus likely town) plays a strong towngame they are FAR more likely to be shot. His main concerning is trying to catch mafia fake claiming later BUT why the fuck do would you say it out so loud and clear so even the mafia can hear all our plan. Aquanim's so called "plan" could have worked if only town knew about it and agree to it but, hello, we are playing this game where we don't know who the mafia is. This bit is little nip picking but here he sounds like he himself is mafia now. + Show Spoiler + Scum generally prioritize shooting strong townies over blue-sniping anyway, and if a claimed Nosy Neighbour (who is thus likely town) plays a strong towngame they are FAR more likely to be shot. This one sums up why he is contradicting himself. + Show Spoiler + What. Just... what. If somebody claims Nosy Neighbour day 1, they aren't counterclaimed, and they aren't scummy, there is NO REASON to lynch them. If somebody is a Nosy Neighbour, they are MUCH MORE LIKELY to harm the town if the town doesn't know they are (likely to be) the Nosy Neighbour. Making scum claim Nosy Neighbour day one (which would be brave) or not at all is the optimal play. + Show Spoiler + Obviously, scum can claim Nosy Neighbour so whoever claims it isn't confirmed town by any means. So we don't lynch whoever claim NN Day1 but we are not sure whether he is town or mafia and a scum wouldn't fake claim Day1 unless he is brave but again whoever claimed or fake claimed NN Day1 is shouldn't be lynched unless he is suspicious? Can someone explain this to me.. But in all seriousness, Aquanim is just trying to somehow magically make it sound logical and get NN to claim Day1. THAT really looks like scum play. Convincing town to do what he wants without making sense. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Aquanim's case and voting on Chromatically was both strange and suspicious as well. 1) If it was semi-serious case, then it went on longer than I should have. 2) If it was a serious case, it was way too weak without enough evidence. 3) If it was a pressure vote, then it did not accomplish anything useful. I would even say that it came down too easily. + Show Spoiler + Regarding scum Current scumread is Chromatically for two reasons. 1) I don't like the feel of his initial posts. Making troll-cases to get the game rolling is fine, I have no objection to that in as of itself, but there's a certain nit-picking quality to his posts that feels wrong to me. On June 24 2013 11:13 Chromatically wrote: Show nested quote + Well, it's hard to decide whether the "hey" part or the "everyone" part is scummier. Really a toss up. What could you possibly expect me to explain? You're taking this awfully seriously. Why did you take so long to reply if you were in the thread? Trying to read something into someone not posting for five minutes is ludicrous. 2) He's been doing a lot of asking other people for their reads while offering nothing even approaching one of his own. ##Vote: Chromatically Rather than guessing what was his purpose, I will save time by referring to one of his post. + Show Spoiler + tl;dr I had uneasy feelings about you but I feel a lot better after reading this post. My vote was fundamentally to draw reactions from you (to clarify my read) and other people, and to start some meaningful discussion (I don't think anything is accomplished in a thread until somebody's thrown down a vote). Go find some scum. ##Unvote So if he was pressuring voting, why did he take it off? You were satisfied with this? + Show Spoiler + Aqua, are you scum? Both of these things are towntells. Explain to me the scum motivation in getting discussion rolling early day 1, which was OBVIOUSLY the reason that I pressured Spicy (and it worked). Sorry, if you thought that it was "ludicrous", but it doesn't make me scum and you know it. If you wanted to know about someone, you could just asked me. I'm not just going to randomly post reads if I'm not going to push for their lynch, but I'll definitely tell you what I think of someone or who my scumreads are. Why wouldn't you ask me for my scumreads if you wanted them? Probably because that's not actually what you want at all. Someone else asked me for scumreads, and I posted mine right below your post, but you haven't reacted to that at all. Does this point still stand even after I've posted my scumreads? Or did your opinion not change at all for some reason? You also said: On June 24 2013 17:04 Aquanim wrote: This doesn't feel to me like the town Chromatic which I played with in Newbie XXXIII. Oh, this feels more like the scum Chromatic from XXXI? I am very, very uncomfortable with you, Aqua, because you are usually very town from your first post. This game, you've done a lot of shitting up the thread with stuff about claims and NNs. Furthermore, you didn't ask a scumread from Chromatically. He himself said that Aquanim should ask him if he wants to know. This seems as if Aquanim wanted, not something, but anything from Chromatically. And as soon as he gets a reply, comment oneliner to each of the paragraph, boom, vote comes off. Lastly, a small thing. "Go find some scum" would not be something I would say to someone I tried to pressure. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Next few posts are null. I will not try to make everything Aquanim said as my evidence. His response to hzflank's case was actually very town like, I will admit. He explain his action and nothing more. He did not try to defend Chromatically or anything. + Show Spoiler + I've tried to pull out the parts of hzflank's case which are primarily about me. Aquanim hopes that he can get a few town to agree that the NN should out themselves. Then his scumbuddies can also agree and the NN might claim, giving an advantage to the scum team. Since Hurricane did not get a hard time, Aquanim does not think that he will be lynched for being the first to make the suggestion. Aquanim is fairly sure that when the time comes he can rely on Hurricanes vote for NN to claim, so he really only needs two more town votes, which makes it worth a try. Has it even crossed your mind that I might think I'm right about the Nosy Neighbour? The rest of the case on me is primarily related to the nature of my case on Chromatically. Remember that when I made that case it was (by a long way) the first vote of the game - nobody had any significant cases at that time. I took my case more seriously (despite its flimsiness, which I admit) because in my experience a game of Mafia only starts to progress significantly when somebody has put down a vote and is pushing, in some way, for a lynch. The reason why I backed off my case so fast is because I'd previously had only vague feelings that Chromatically was scum, and his replying post felt a lot like aggrieved town to me. You can come up with convoluted reasons as to why I would ask people about their opinions on my case, or you can accept the simpler and correct explanation that I wanted to draw reactions and make other players express their ideas and thinking about the game, which is a strong tool for finding scum. But he does not explain what exactly he got out of his pressure vote. What about Chromatically's response was appropriate and what desired response did he get from other players. Next few posts.. (getting real tired of referring..) + Show Spoiler + On June 25 2013 11:00 Aquanim wrote: Is there anything in particular that makes you want to lynch Xzavier over Onegu? Their posting to date seems to be of a similar character to me, except that Onegu has been in the thread while interesting things have happened and still hasn't contributed much. On June 25 2013 11:44 Aquanim wrote: I'd prefer to see Xzavier's reply before I comment on either of these in detail. I don't see any reason to believe he's town from his posts so far, though. On June 25 2013 12:36 Aquanim wrote: I'm not interested in lynching any of those three today, if that's what you're asking. I can see the thought process of all three and I can easily see all of it coming from a town mindset, even if I don't agree with a lot of it. My current suspicions lie with Onegu and Xzavier, since they have posted a fair bit but actually said little to nothing of value. On June 25 2013 12:54 Aquanim wrote: I have to admit I've been having trouble understanding what Alakaslam has said so far... but I'm having difficulty seeing his thing about "spamming up the thread with bad bbcode -> scum" (link) coming from a scum player. It just feels too... enthusiastic. I get the overall impression that he is trying. I'd love to see more from him but I'd prefer to lynch Xzavier or Onegu at this point. (A quick note: LoneMeow did say pregame that he would be on vacation until the 27th, so I'm inclined not to lynch him today.) Maybe it's just me but it sounds to me as if he is trying to find a lynch target rather than an actual scum. He keeping going on about how Onegu and Xzavier haven't contributed to the scum that he himself hasn't really contributed either. All he did was pressure vote Chromatically for a little and backed off. Nothing more. Also he seems not concerned about lurkers at all (me, yeah..). Finally he puts his vote on Xzavier, because Xzavier made the first move. It is more of a response like, "uhh, I'm torn between Onegu and Xzavier. What?! You bit me, Xzavier? Alright, bring it!" (exaggerated, I know). Some more bullshitting after that.. It is an irony that his so called case on Xzavier apply to himself. + Show Spoiler + 1) some useless talk in the first 12 hours 2) a vote on me with poor justification 3) some unconvincing defence 1) Aquanim really haven't said much after first 12 hours. 2) A vote on Xzavier with poor justification. 3) Aquanim's unconvincing defence. Conclusion: My vote is on Aquanim for now. To me he seems to be a frustrated little man who is trying to make it sound as other people are not making sense while he himself is not really making much sense. His NN policy definitely smell like mafia. Lastly, why are you trying to choose lynch targets rather than putting out a solid case on someone and back that up with evidence and analysis rather than just general "not contributing" or "not making sense." Quote and point towards exactly where is scum rather than tied down by lynch. | ||
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StiMaDDict
Korea (South)313 Posts
I didn't even fucking finished writing everything.. @Chromatically: Dude, calm down. Why are you going around asking everyone what their read is on you? I'm not just going to give you my gut feel or a couple of short paragraphs pretending I know who you are. I would rather post something that is of some substance with proper analysis. To put it simply, I refuse your request. | ||
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StiMaDDict
Korea (South)313 Posts
I don't know how I am not dead yet. I played terrible for both town and scum. Hard to get back into the game at this point to be honest. On June 28 2013 15:04 FirmTofu wrote: Alakaslam claims Onegu visited Hurricane. Onegu claims his "strongest town read" visited Alakaslam. These actions are incompatible. Onegu claims he visited Alakaslam and Alakaslam claims Onegu visited Hurricane. We can deduce that Alakaslam and Onegu are NOT of the same alignment. So this is what Day2 discussion has been based upon? That two people claimed contradicting things? | ||
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Korea (South)313 Posts
On June 29 2013 09:13 Aquanim wrote: Oh, and even if Hurricane doesn't know where he visited, that does not contradict Onegu's claim in any way. In fact, I don't think it affects its likelihood at all. One way or another, Onegu correctly knows where Hurricane visited. (Scum would not have fakeclaimed seeing Hurricane visit somewhere he didn't on the offchance he might be Nosy Neighbour and not know.) I agree that unless it is necessary to decide the lynch one way or another there is no need for Hurricane to claim. Explain this to me? I thought Alak claimed Onegu visited Hurricane and that he himself visited Alak. Since we are lynching Alak, I'm assuming that he is most likely telling a lie, therefore it is correct that Onegu visited Alak. How is it that Onegu knows where Hurricane visited? Still trying to catch up. What am I missing? | ||
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On June 28 2013 14:34 Alakaslam wrote: This is so appropos I am green!! XD why do you think I was suspicious of you? We are both town you just confirmed Ty so much Onegu, see 1)had work all day today 2)was thinking you visited hurricane to role lock possibly or something DO NOT VOTE ONEGU HE IS TOWN! will catch up bear with me!! Find this finally.. So it was more of a slip up. | ||
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StiMaDDict
Korea (South)313 Posts
On June 29 2013 09:59 hzflank wrote: @Stim: How did you get from To That bit about roleblock? What I understand so far.. Onegu was leading in vote so claimed Watcher. He watched Alak and his strongest townread (Hurricane) visited Alak. In response, intentional or not, Alak said that he saw Onegu visit Hurricane. My thoughts.. If I was believe Onegu's claim, then why did Hurricane visited Alak? I was wondering if Hurricane was either a jailkeeper or roleblocker. | ||
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StiMaDDict
Korea (South)313 Posts
Did Onegu actually claimed Watcher? It could've been that he tracked Hurricane to Alak. | ||
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On June 29 2013 10:11 Hurricane Sponge wrote: Do you think I should claim which role I am at this time, StiM? Remember my public service announcement, everyone. You shouldn't. But I would consider your vote more informed than the others. You know if Onegu is telling the truth or not. + Show Spoiler + or rather if you are NN, then you know what Onegu said could be truth Furthermore, I don't think your claim will necessarily benefit town at this point. | ||
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Does that make sense? | ||
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I know you had a scum read on me and if I remember correctly FirmTofu was on Onegu.. | ||
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If Alakaslam flips red, then I'm probably next on lynch but my gut tells me Onegu playing this. ##Vote: Onegu | ||
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On June 29 2013 11:16 FirmTofu wrote: No. You don't get to be lazy. You are going to help us find out who the mafia is. If you are town, you need to stop playing terribly. :| Dang.. Yes sir, as you wish. My reads? Onegu = Scum Tracker FirmTofu = non PM town Aqua = null LoneMeow = no comment + Show Spoiler + my last game.. Hurricane = Town (NN probably) Spicy = don't know, he was great town last game. Not getting the same feel. hzflank = null uhh who else is there? Me = lazy fucking bastard that doesn't do shit.. | ||
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Korea (South)313 Posts
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Korea (South)313 Posts
One of us dies tonight. We lynch Onegu tomorrow. Another dies Night 3. That's 5 left. If we lynch correctly, that's 4. One dies that night.. oh fuck So we have to pretty lynch scums 3 days straight to win? We are so fucked.. | ||
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StiMaDDict
Korea (South)313 Posts
On June 29 2013 12:55 Aquanim wrote: If I were scum, trying to mislynch Alakaslam (who I would, as scum, know to be a townie and soon to be confirmed) would indeed be the correct play. As town, who did not know which of the two were scum but believed that Alakaslam was scum and that Onegu would be confirmed town in that case, trying to lynch Alakaslam (who I did not know was town) is STILL the correct play. I swear.. is it just me or does Aquanim sounds like he's CHOOSING who the lynch target would be rather than actually lynching scum. It might just be me but it was like this Day1 as well. He was like, "Who should I vote, hmm... Xzavier!" | ||
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/iJ4vKtG.gif) | ||
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Korea (South)313 Posts
On June 29 2013 13:49 hzflank wrote: Stim, posting that Gif really hurts the town more than it helps. This game is confusing enough without having to look at that Gif while playing. Sorry, I was bored.. and I thought the mood little bit too serious. I won't do it again. | ||
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As for Spicy, I can't really tell if he is or he is not a scum, because he is playing a very much thought out and careful game. There is nothing solid of evidence that I can point to as a proof. I will this though, in the last game he played an excellent townie but I'm not getting that same feel in this game. Can elaborate further if you request. As for Aquanim, only looking at votes, cases and interactions, he is a scum. He voted for Xzavier and Alakslam. He has a bizzare relationship with LoneMeow. However he fucking talks a lot and he has strong opinions. So that's that.. | ||
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StiMaDDict
Korea (South)313 Posts
4th line second sentence - *I will say this though,... | ||
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You are dead. Stay dead >: ( | ||
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The reason I voted for Onegu day 2 comes down to this. At the time, everyone were too caught up in either-or. Either Alakaslam was lying or Onegu was lying. After reading Alakaslam's post, I didn't think he was lying at all, but then I questioned why would Onegu have claimed? It is way too risky to fake-claim in case he get busted. So I began thinking, "what if they are both telling the truth?" Maybe I missed it but if I remember correctly, Onegu never claimed Watcher. He only claimed that he knew Hurricane visited Alakslam. He could have Watched Alakaslam OR he could have tracked Hurricane. If we assume that Onegu is a Tracker rather than a Watcher, it all makes sense. From Onegu's point of view, what he claimed IS truth, he just let others assume how he knows the truth. + Show Spoiler + Well played, Onegu. I really don't want to do this but here are some of my posts from Day 2. + Show Spoiler + On June 29 2013 10:13 StiMaDDict wrote: hzflank, could you help me a bit here? Did Onegu actually claimed Watcher? It could've been that he tracked Hurricane to Alak. + Show Spoiler + On June 29 2013 10:25 StiMaDDict wrote: What's bothering me at this point is that this "Alakaslam enthusiastically tandem-claimed Tracker (with no public intent of countering Onegu's claim)" doesn't look like it was intentional. So what I'm was thinking is that Onegu is scum tracker and he tracked Hurricane. He knows Hurricane visited Alakaslam. So he pretends to the town watcher by telling what he knows. Lastly, Hurricane will defend Onegu. Does that make sense? + Show Spoiler + On June 29 2013 10:26 StiMaDDict wrote: If what I suggest is true, then what Alak claimed makes sense. + Show Spoiler + On June 29 2013 10:29 StiMaDDict wrote: I wasn't here at that time so you will have to fill me on it. Obviously, Onegu couldn't have anticipated Alak claiming. I will have to check but was Onegu under vote pressure at that time? + Show Spoiler + On June 29 2013 10:37 StiMaDDict wrote: Then I don't see why Onegu would claim.. I know you had a scum read on me and if I remember correctly FirmTofu was on Onegu.. + Show Spoiler + On June 29 2013 10:43 StiMaDDict wrote: I'm going to vote Onegu at this point. If Alakaslam flips red, then I'm probably next on lynch but my gut tells me Onegu playing this. ##Vote: Onegu Oh btw, Hurrican voted Alakslam, so that means that he DID visit Alakslam + Show Spoiler + or he is NN. SOOooooo, that's that. What I have here is pure gut and instinct. Why did Aquanim emphasize Onegu is a Watcher.. On June 29 2013 09:22 Aquanim wrote: Onegu has claimed Watcher. He claims to have watched Alakaslam, and to have seen Hurricane visit Alakaslam. But then this bothers me.. On June 26 2013 02:19 Onegu wrote: To be honest I dont care who is killed if Xzavier flips town my vote will go on aquanim and if he flips scum I will vote Spicydinosaur. My current read on Xzavier is null with scum reads on alakaslam and aqua. With every post Alakaslam makes he looks more and more like noob scum to me. | ||
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On July 03 2013 05:32 hzflank wrote: Still reading, but Onegu did absolutely claim watcher. He did? Then I guess what Aquanim said shouldn't be suspicious. | ||
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On July 03 2013 05:34 hzflank wrote: Also, we all knew that Hurricane was NN who accidentally visited Alakaslam. We had deduced this at the time of the vote. Then why the fuck did he ask me whether he should claim or not... *making me look stupid and shit *grumble *grumble | ||
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Korea (South)313 Posts
On July 03 2013 05:44 hzflank wrote: @Stim There are 2 scum. Your options are: hzflank, Aquanim, SpicyDinosaur and LoneMeow. Who are your picks? LoneMeow and SpicyDinosaur. btw, if Lone flips town, I'm going to super fucking pissed. | ||
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I already stated that I'll vote LoneMeow and Spicy. | ||
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##Vote: Spicydinosaur | ||
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I played a pretty terrible town and I thought scums would have jumped on me by Day2. It was a lot of fun playing with you guys ^^ | ||
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Since now everyone think I'm a hardcore lurker, regardless of my ailment in future games, even if I'm active in forum, I'll be suspicious? Dang.. | ||
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What exactly did people see in me that made them think I was town? It's my play but even I'm not so sure XD Only thing I can think of is when asked questions and voted Onegu at the end of Day2. | ||
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On July 06 2013 08:58 ObviousOne wrote: To those who reached out to me for coaching: would you like to see me coach town again? Could you coach Survivor if I become one? | ||
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Korea (South)313 Posts
On July 06 2013 13:31 AxleGreaser wrote: In my experience. + Show Spoiler + (which is short in this game)(so dont listen to me, but do think about what I say.) It is very very hard for a person(you) to see why other people(us) see person(you) as town or scum. When most people I have played with say, " but I was townie town I did X" , then its usually true that doing or not doing X actually had very little weight in my decision/guess about what PM I thought they received. People seem to think its concrete things, like, asked questions voted this or that. (which are easily observable and changeable behaviours, hence for me often poor WIFOMY scum tells. Though they do have weight too.) IIRC voting for onegu when you did looked townie, but one possible (less likely) scum story for it ... if the scum QT had wifomed themselves into thinking he(onegu) was dead meat and they wanted to seriously pencil in the three man lylo play if it came down to Stim then they might be willing to risk something to buy Stim some townyness now. Note: I don't actually care if that is or is not a good idea for a scum, it is always possible scum are not making good plays.... Also scum often split their votes on a scumVtown lynch. As for what made you look town, if I could just tell you then you(and everyone) could just do that as scum, _unless_ it was something that is hard to do as scum. My current best guess is that if you try to write this post http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=19007111 when you actually have a scum PM, it will look different. It will look different in ways you will find very hard to avoid. That the game is hard like that is why it is fun and challenging. That the post would have disagreed with my personal interpretation of the events is not as important, as me believing that is you trying to work that out. + Show Spoiler + Why was you green? it was green because IMO there are players on the forum that can make that post or its equivalent as scum. For them merely making that post is not a significant town tell. Thank you for your kind explanation and advice ^^ I'll make sure to read, understand, and keep what you wrote in mind while playing Mafia. It's a big help when a veteran player share his/her wisdom. A side note: From what I hear, is ObviousOne like a god of TL mafia? XD | ||
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