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EBWOP: It was inevitable. Read if you have time, or if it applies to you. Basically, if you think Onegu or Spicy are scum, I gave you homework regarding their defenses of fyfy. You can use the filters or control-F 'fyfy' if you want to break it down on your own.
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Ugh, it wasn't a Case on Tofu. Tofu did what a lot of other players would do: Poke the Lurker. If you're seriously considering Tofu as scum, read his filter and make a proper case.
The juice of my abortion of a post is that Onegu and Spicy defended fyfy almost immediately. And this is not scum-play to me.
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They also cited StiM (a scum suspect in my eyes for much of the game) as a better target. At face value, these things are mutually exclusive.
Either Spicy OR Onegu are town and thought StiM's lurking deserved more pressure than fyfy (<----- MOST LIKELY SCENARIO)
OR
Spicy OR Onegu are scum, defended an early Town poke, AND StiM is not Mafia (<----- That's a lot of leaps)
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On June 26 2013 15:58 Alakaslam wrote:
Dude I am in stitches hurricane's post is so awesome and clean and typical of his helpfulness and then...
IT COMES
Dude my laughing is going to wake up my family I need to put down the phone, see you all in about 16 hours XD
I'm so sorry hurricane it's just like when you've tipped a canoe and everyone laughed and then you see it happen to someone else and you get it and its so much funnier, that empathy funny stuff rofl
If we lose, I'm blaming that damnable missing [/QUOTE].
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I have not reviewed Spicy's filter yet. I'm going through hz's right now. My current read on Spicy is town.
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(Quick note, Spicy definitely defended fyfy from Tofu for WAY longer than any sane person would have, much less a mafia. Based on that encounter, Spicy is supertown. I didn't manage to quote the entire exchange in the broken case post, but if you don't believe me, it's pretty easy to find. Just control-F 'Hitler' and work your way backwards.)
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On June 26 2013 11:02 Chromatically wrote:
I am very surprised that both of them flipped as town. I have a lot of strong town reads, but I clearly need to rethink some of them as a) there was probably scum on the Xzav lynch and b) there's not enough people left that are in my null-scum area.
hz looks pretty town despite his wierd logic because there's really no reason for scum to draw suspicion to themselves by switching that late as the lynch was already secure.
Same thing for Alaka, less confident on that.
I don't follow. hz looks town because he did something suspicious? We can save this discussion for Day 2 if you think the information is sensitive, but don't let me forget this point, Chromatically.
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Just finished hz's filter. The town consensus is that he's very pro-town. I don't see it as quite that clear-cut, but I will defer to the town's judgement. He had some pro-town stuff leading up to the Xzavier lynch, but he's also had a couple of real head-scratchers. I won't quote them unless asked, because I want to reiterate that I don't think he's scum and I don't think investigating hz is a productive use of our time right now.
I have yet to go over Onegu's filter, but his upcoming morning mega-post will go a long way in helping me decide his alignment. I'm not ready to crucify him JUST for saying he thinks Alakaslam is the scummiest player on the board while Xzavier and Aqua were also Top 3 (which is what his apathy regarding the Day One vote boiled down to). His reads will help me decide.
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On June 27 2013 01:48 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 01:29 hzflank wrote:
Chrom, is there anyone besides Spicy whose actions around the lynch seemed scummy? Show nested quote +On June 26 2013 11:59 Chromatically wrote:I think that Onegu comes off worst after this lynch. He blatantly didn't care about whether Aqua or Xzav was lynched: On June 26 2013 02:23 Onegu wrote:On June 26 2013 02:22 Chromatically wrote:
You don't care who is killed? Between xzavier and Aqua. Except just a few posts earlier, he says that he has a null read on Xzav and a scum read on Aqua: On June 26 2013 02:19 Onegu wrote:On June 26 2013 02:01 FirmTofu wrote:
Even now, it is still possible that Xzavier lives because we only have 5 votes. We should try convincing hzflank or Alakaslam to switch their votes.
As I suspect the Mafia team is as follows...
Xzavier
SpicyDinosaur
Onegu
They are trying not to make it obvious that they want to keep Xzavier alive. You can see how they are frantically looking for other scapegoats to shift attention off of Xzavier, but don't have much of a case.
Furthermore, my preliminary assessment of Alakaslam speaks to an SK mindset. I will go into further detail when it becomes applicable on Day 2. To be honest I dont care who is killed if Xzavier flips town my vote will go on aquanim and if he flips scum I will vote Spicydinosaur. My current read on Xzavier is null with scum reads on alakaslam and aqua. With every post Alakaslam makes he looks more and more like noob scum to me. So he doesn't care about the lynch, even though he thinks that Aqua is scummier. Why wouldn't he vote Aqua, and why doesn't a townie care about the lynch in the first place? If Onegu was scum, however, he wouldn't care whether Aqua or Xzav are lynched as he knows that they're both town. He also wouldn't want to have his vote on one of them when they flipped because it would draw suspicion to himself. Side note: this works just as well if Aqua is scum. Onegu wouldn't want to vote Aqua because they're scumbuddies and doesn't want to be on the mislynch wagon. Thoughts?
@Onegu
Please address the bottom part of this post. A clear, honest answer would really help your case right now.
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On June 27 2013 02:36 Spicydinosaur wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 02:14 FirmTofu wrote:On June 27 2013 01:47 Chromatically wrote:On June 27 2013 01:31 Spicydinosaur wrote:On June 27 2013 01:23 Chromatically wrote:
Spicy, I think that Tofu's actions around the lynch were fine.
He thought that you were scummier, but after pushing you he saw that no one else was willing to vote you.
Instead of wasting his vote on someone who wouldn't be lynched (you), he moves to his second-best scumread (Xzav). please look at what i wrote again. It is clear he said his second best read was stim On June 26 2013 01:03 FirmTofu wrote:
I've skimmed through the thread to get a handle on where people are leaning.
Scenario 1: Xzavier is town
Mafia should be distancing themselves from the lynch and somewhat defending him.
Scenario 2: Xzavier is mafia
Mafia should be vehemently arguing in his defense while also trying to distance themselves from him. It's a balancing act that is hard to do.
Keep an eye out for people who fall into the latter category for now.
On another note, I agree with Hurricane that StiM is the best lynch for today. However, letting Aqua die is simply not an option. We only lynch StiM if we know we can get enough votes. He then does nothing with trying to get stim lynched and just sheeps onto xzavier. Oh yeah, that's a good point that I missed. Just a few posts later he says: + Show Spoiler +On June 26 2013 02:01 FirmTofu wrote:
Even now, it is still possible that Xzavier lives because we only have 5 votes. We should try convincing hzflank or Alakaslam to switch their votes.
As I suspect the Mafia team is as follows...
Xzavier
SpicyDinosaur
Onegu
They are trying not to make it obvious that they want to keep Xzavier alive. You can see how they are frantically looking for other scapegoats to shift attention off of Xzavier, but don't have much of a case.
Furthermore, my preliminary assessment of Alakaslam speaks to an SK mindset. I will go into further detail when it becomes applicable on Day 2. Stim isn't even in his proposed scumteam. Tofu, can you clarify this situation? Ah, of course. What happened was that I wanted Hurricane to switch his vote from StiM to Xzavier so that Aqua(who i had a stong town read on) wouldn't die. I was also very wary of StiM regardless because he was lurking hardcore. To win Hurricane over to our side, I got on his level. Obviously, I wasn't bein completely honest when I said StiM was the best lynch, but I knew that Aqua couldn't be allowed to die and this was my tactic to save him. So you admit you are a liar. Scummy as hell.
This can be explained as a difference of playstyle. You have been recently accused of not doing everything in your power to save Xzavier from lynch when you thought he was town. Tofu is demonstrating what he's willing to do to save someone he thinks is Town from a lynch.
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On June 27 2013 02:59 Onegu wrote:
I had no qualms about voteing aqua and was planning on voteing him today until the firmtofu case came up. As I said it didnt matter to me who was killed because I had a scum read on Aqua and a null read on xzavier but depending on how he fliped would focus my day 2 targets, I have said all along I want to lynch Aqua and still do. I cannot make a good case on him but I am trying and keep looking things over. But saying I didnt vote him because I am scum buddies is dumb, If not tofu today and it is between anyone and aqua my vote will go on aqua. But at this point firmtofu I can make a much stronger case on him.
I don't think you're scumbuddies. I think Aqua is town. I'm confused by your actions. If I saw two wagons forming, one on a Townie and one on someone I thought was Scum, I'd get on that Scum bandwagon no matter what it looked like to make sure the right man dies. I can say this with confidence because it's exactly what I did. If you were town, that's the behavior I'd expect. I could see how maybe if you thought both xzavier and aqua were town or both were scum you could justify your apathy. But having different reads on the two main wagons, and just letting them roll by you baffles me. In a bad way.
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On June 27 2013 03:03 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 03:00 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On June 27 2013 02:36 Spicydinosaur wrote:On June 27 2013 02:14 FirmTofu wrote:On June 27 2013 01:47 Chromatically wrote:On June 27 2013 01:31 Spicydinosaur wrote:On June 27 2013 01:23 Chromatically wrote:
Spicy, I think that Tofu's actions around the lynch were fine.
He thought that you were scummier, but after pushing you he saw that no one else was willing to vote you.
Instead of wasting his vote on someone who wouldn't be lynched (you), he moves to his second-best scumread (Xzav). please look at what i wrote again. It is clear he said his second best read was stim On June 26 2013 01:03 FirmTofu wrote:
I've skimmed through the thread to get a handle on where people are leaning.
Scenario 1: Xzavier is town
Mafia should be distancing themselves from the lynch and somewhat defending him.
Scenario 2: Xzavier is mafia
Mafia should be vehemently arguing in his defense while also trying to distance themselves from him. It's a balancing act that is hard to do.
Keep an eye out for people who fall into the latter category for now.
On another note, I agree with Hurricane that StiM is the best lynch for today. However, letting Aqua die is simply not an option. We only lynch StiM if we know we can get enough votes. He then does nothing with trying to get stim lynched and just sheeps onto xzavier. Oh yeah, that's a good point that I missed. Just a few posts later he says: + Show Spoiler +On June 26 2013 02:01 FirmTofu wrote:
Even now, it is still possible that Xzavier lives because we only have 5 votes. We should try convincing hzflank or Alakaslam to switch their votes.
As I suspect the Mafia team is as follows...
Xzavier
SpicyDinosaur
Onegu
They are trying not to make it obvious that they want to keep Xzavier alive. You can see how they are frantically looking for other scapegoats to shift attention off of Xzavier, but don't have much of a case.
Furthermore, my preliminary assessment of Alakaslam speaks to an SK mindset. I will go into further detail when it becomes applicable on Day 2. Stim isn't even in his proposed scumteam. Tofu, can you clarify this situation? Ah, of course. What happened was that I wanted Hurricane to switch his vote from StiM to Xzavier so that Aqua(who i had a stong town read on) wouldn't die. I was also very wary of StiM regardless because he was lurking hardcore. To win Hurricane over to our side, I got on his level. Obviously, I wasn't bein completely honest when I said StiM was the best lynch, but I knew that Aqua couldn't be allowed to die and this was my tactic to save him. So you admit you are a liar. Scummy as hell. This can be explained as a difference of playstyle. You have been recently accused of not doing everything in your power to save Xzavier from lynch when you thought he was town. Tofu is demonstrating what he's willing to do to save someone he thinks is Town from a lynch. Tofu was one of the people on the wagon. Go back and read how the votes went down. Look at exactly who voted when and the reasons given. If Tofu is town then at least one other person on that wagon is scum. Why is Tofu wasting so much time on people who were not on the wagon?
Speak plain. Do you have a point?
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On June 27 2013 03:10 FirmTofu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 03:03 hzflank wrote:On June 27 2013 03:00 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On June 27 2013 02:36 Spicydinosaur wrote:On June 27 2013 02:14 FirmTofu wrote:On June 27 2013 01:47 Chromatically wrote:On June 27 2013 01:31 Spicydinosaur wrote:On June 27 2013 01:23 Chromatically wrote:
Spicy, I think that Tofu's actions around the lynch were fine.
He thought that you were scummier, but after pushing you he saw that no one else was willing to vote you.
Instead of wasting his vote on someone who wouldn't be lynched (you), he moves to his second-best scumread (Xzav). please look at what i wrote again. It is clear he said his second best read was stim On June 26 2013 01:03 FirmTofu wrote:
I've skimmed through the thread to get a handle on where people are leaning.
Scenario 1: Xzavier is town
Mafia should be distancing themselves from the lynch and somewhat defending him.
Scenario 2: Xzavier is mafia
Mafia should be vehemently arguing in his defense while also trying to distance themselves from him. It's a balancing act that is hard to do.
Keep an eye out for people who fall into the latter category for now.
On another note, I agree with Hurricane that StiM is the best lynch for today. However, letting Aqua die is simply not an option. We only lynch StiM if we know we can get enough votes. He then does nothing with trying to get stim lynched and just sheeps onto xzavier. Oh yeah, that's a good point that I missed. Just a few posts later he says: + Show Spoiler +On June 26 2013 02:01 FirmTofu wrote:
Even now, it is still possible that Xzavier lives because we only have 5 votes. We should try convincing hzflank or Alakaslam to switch their votes.
As I suspect the Mafia team is as follows...
Xzavier
SpicyDinosaur
Onegu
They are trying not to make it obvious that they want to keep Xzavier alive. You can see how they are frantically looking for other scapegoats to shift attention off of Xzavier, but don't have much of a case.
Furthermore, my preliminary assessment of Alakaslam speaks to an SK mindset. I will go into further detail when it becomes applicable on Day 2. Stim isn't even in his proposed scumteam. Tofu, can you clarify this situation? Ah, of course. What happened was that I wanted Hurricane to switch his vote from StiM to Xzavier so that Aqua(who i had a stong town read on) wouldn't die. I was also very wary of StiM regardless because he was lurking hardcore. To win Hurricane over to our side, I got on his level. Obviously, I wasn't bein completely honest when I said StiM was the best lynch, but I knew that Aqua couldn't be allowed to die and this was my tactic to save him. So you admit you are a liar. Scummy as hell. This can be explained as a difference of playstyle. You have been recently accused of not doing everything in your power to save Xzavier from lynch when you thought he was town. Tofu is demonstrating what he's willing to do to save someone he thinks is Town from a lynch. Tofu was one of the people on the wagon. Go back and read how the votes went down. Look at exactly who voted when and the reasons given. If Tofu is town then at least one other person on that wagon is scum. Why is Tofu wasting so much time on people who were not on the wagon? He meant to say Aqua, not Xzavier. I already explained why I'm "wasting" time with people that weren't on the wagon. People on the wagon are more likely to be town than people not on the wagon. Remember that scum KNEW that Xzavier would not flip mafia. Why in the world would they get on a wagon that they knew would not flip mafia? Logic dictates that their best course of action would be to say they think Xzavier is town, but NOT ACTUALLY TRY TO PREVENT THE LYNCH. Who are the people who did that? Onegu SpicyDinosaur Alakaslam You This is why this group of people is high on my scum list.
No, I meant what I said. I was addressing Spicy. Spicy is under suspicion because apparently he didn't defend Xzavier hard enough when he was a town read and one of the leading wagons:
From Chromatically: "What I don't like (and this is a general statement about Spicy, Stim, and Onegu) is that when your vote is not on a leading wagon, you should be doing your ABSOLUTE BEST to push your read. This is especially true if you have a town read on the leader. A townie would do everything that they can to prevent a mislynch.
Spicy defends Xzav a little, but then drops it"
Tofu defended Aqua using every weapon available because he thought Aqua was town.
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hz in general is not making sense to me right now.
If he thinks this constitutes a real lynch defense of a wagon subject, he's dreaming:
On June 27 2013 03:15 hzflank wrote:If you think I was not trying to prevent the lynch then you have not read the thread. I tried, and you stopped me. Show nested quote +On June 26 2013 08:26 FirmTofu wrote:On June 26 2013 08:17 hzflank wrote:
I will try another angle:
LoneMeow was the first to vote on Xzavier. I think that LoneMeow is town. He has never looked scummy to me and he thought that Xzavier was scum for the start. It makes sense that LoneMeow would be the first to vote on Xzavier.
Next to add their vote was Chromatically. Despite my earlier attack, Chrom has been looking more and more town to me. The only reason that I can see a scum Chrom voting Xzavier when he did is if Aqua is also scum, and everyone thought that idea was ridiculous. Therefore, I expect most of you see Chrom as town and the first two people on the wagon as town.
Aqua was the third to vote. Most of you think Aqua is town. That means most of you must think that the first 3 people on the wagon are town.
Is that not odd to anyone? If three townies jump on a scum wagon then there should of been a counter play by the scum team by now. And yet I started the Aqua wagon and I am posting this. It does not make sense. There was a counter play! The scum saw that you had already started a vote on Aqua and used that as an opportunity to draw attention away from Xzavier. While I strongly believe you are town because you were the one to start the lynch with some pretty good analysis, I do not believe that the other people pursuing the Aqua wagon are free from blame. The fact that they jumped on Aqua right after Xzavier's bandwagon was gaining momentum is indicative of this fact.
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On June 27 2013 03:24 FirmTofu wrote:
hzflank, you keep repeating that someone on the wagon must be scum. Why do you believe that is the case? Does it necessarily have to be true, or do you think you are assuming it should be true because Xzavier flipped town?
Because if everyone on the Xzavier wagon was town, then the mafia team is Onegu, Spicy and Stim.
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On June 27 2013 03:27 FirmTofu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 03:25 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On June 27 2013 03:24 FirmTofu wrote:
hzflank, you keep repeating that someone on the wagon must be scum. Why do you believe that is the case? Does it necessarily have to be true, or do you think you are assuming it should be true because Xzavier flipped town? Because if everyone on the Xzavier wagon was town, then the mafia team is Onegu, Spicy and Stim. Well, I don't think he was referring to the last few tag along votes. I think he means one of the first few votes must be scum.
First few? Let's try to be as specific as possible. I hate treating individuals under suspicion as a collective. Hz suspects one or more of the following people is Scum:
LoneMeow, Chromatically, Aquanim, FirmTofu, Hurricane Sponge.
(After my vote, and Onegu's declaration that he will not be moving his off Alakaslam, the wagon reached maximum velocity)
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I wish Onegu had better reasoning for his vote apathy. If he's town, that's a stupid stupid stupid play. (Much like Xzavier's town play was really really stupid.) I went through Onegu's filter last night and he's generally town, but a townie's one power is their vote, and this play is really bad. I'm trying to separate myself from bias because he keeps making cases on people I think are town.
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On June 27 2013 03:53 hzflank wrote:
I wanted to give you a chance to look into it yourselves to earn some town cred, but everyone went straight for Onegu, then when that did not get enough support some of you also poked at Spicy.
I don't want to make any sort of case yet, because I want to be sure who the case will be against, if and when I make it. So i dont want to walk you through it.
I wont be on until the end of the night now.
You're using a lot of generalizations. Your arguments become much stronger when you stop using words like 'everyone' to describe individual actions. If you can find instances of each person's attack on Onegu and pokes on Spicy, they will be forced to respond. This post in its current state is very ignore-able (not because it lacks merit, but because there's little pressure being exerted due to the wording).
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For what it's worth, I do not hold it against FirmTofu for misleading me to get me on the Xzavier bandwagon. I'd expect anyone who was trying to lynch their Scum read to do whatever it takes at a crucial time in the vote to secure the win. For context: the vote was tied, and there was reason to believe Onegu would join the Aqua bandwagon. By getting one vote up FIRST, Xzavier's bandwagon would win the time-sensitive tie-breaker.
You can see this fits FirmTofu's aggressive playstyle later when he bullies Alakaslam into committing to the Onegu bandwagon. Is it dirty play? Yes. Would I have done it? No. Did it cross my mind? Yes. But I can TOTALLY see it as legitimate town play. If you are confident in your reads, you make these plays.
This should not read as a defense of FirmTofu as town. I equate this playstyle issue to people getting on Aqua for revealing his opinions on the NN reveal. It's a difference of opinion, but has no bearing on alignment. These issues are both null to me. I'll seriously consider cases against FirmTofu that don't center on 'well he lied and manipulated two floaters into voting for his wagon'.
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On June 27 2013 04:03 FirmTofu wrote:
StiM and LoneMeow are going to decide which way the lynch goes because I believe that:
Spicy, Onegu, Alakaslam, and hzflank will vote together no matter what
AND
Chromatically, Hurricane, Aqua, and I will vote together no matter what.
We should work on convincing the two deciding votes at this point. I'm going back to making my defense against Onegu's accusations.
This is an extremely stupid thing to say before the NK.
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EPT
