EPTCatch 22 Mafia
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Adam4167
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Adam4167
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Understanding we're short on time here, who should I filter dive QUICKLY. | ||
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Adam4167
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Hardly fair for me to start playing without a role PM, although i'm sure some of you would have loved that. | ||
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Of the two, DP looks more invested and I venture ill have a better chance at figuring him out on later days when we're the only two awake talking in the thread. | ||
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On June 23 2013 07:54 slOosh wrote: Well you know if GK continues to not do anything he will be instantly lynched. There is much more pressure on GK to perform if he survives than if DP survives. Threatening an AFK with a lynch generally amounts to nothing. I KNOW DP will be here and being on the same timezone, Ill be able to pick his brain thoroughly. I don't know when ill have the chance to do this with GK as his activity can be sparse. | ||
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In light of that, ill actually go read the thread proper. | ||
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On June 23 2013 08:00 Ange777 wrote: So to you they are both equally scummy and this is the only reason that made you vote goodkarma? I had all of 10 minutes to read both filters and get a grasp on where both of them were coming from. Not being able to get a reliable read on either, I went with voting against the one that I knew I would be able to interact less with. In light of that flip, I chose poorly. | ||
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On June 23 2013 12:47 raynpelikoneet wrote: I asked you why you were dropping off your suspicions on your MOST SCUMREAD, GK. That is fucking relevant as we just know DP flipped scum and you did not vote for him. Obviously you are full of shit. kthxbye. What point are you trying to make with the underlined if not that Hapa wasnt on the DP wagon? | ||
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On June 23 2013 13:01 Hapahauli wrote: This is why I'm the 2nd hardest player to mislynch on TL btw. (the first being iamperfection) Kitaman would beg to differ. | ||
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Adam4167
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Convince me of what you see Oats. I've seen you make coherent cases before, make a case against Hapa so I can get a better read on you both. Just saying "hapa is scum" over and over isn't very convincing or helpful, and you're not kush, despite what DP said. | ||
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Its the sound of Adam groaning. I hope to hell that you are not town, because if you are, your play has slid severely. | ||
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On June 23 2013 13:52 Hapahauli wrote: Sure why not. Team effort bro. Though in seriousness, I'm constantly thinking to myself if scum would actually be this bad at answering questions pertaining to scum-reads. I'm done with 'too scummy to be scum' after smurf mafia. He wants to not play the game, he can die. | ||
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On June 23 2013 14:03 Oatsmaster wrote: Kush flipped town in smurf. I dont get where you are going with this. So far, in the examples you gave, bad people were town. Where do you get the idea that I would flip scum then? I'm well aware what he flipped. He made himself intentionally unreadable, as you are doing now. I'm done with unreadable. If you don't want to play the game, don't sign up. | ||
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On June 23 2013 14:05 Hapahauli wrote: We're not lynching Oats unless we think he's scum. Period. Do you think Oats is scum? Also presumably you caught-up with the thread now that you're posting - who are your other scum-reads? I am reasonably caught up. Right now I want to see more out of GoodKarma, ShioaPi and Raynpelikoneet. Oats would be on this list as well if he weren't playing like a dick. I consider everyone on the DP wagon to be out of the question for tomorrow. Those of us that were on GK yesterday, I actually have some of my better townreads on: Cora, Marv and yourself (in that order). | ||
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On June 23 2013 14:19 Hapahauli wrote: So presumably you find each person scummy to some degree. Can you elaborate your thoughts on each? I'm most interested in your thoughts on Rayn. I actually like Rayns interest on D1, he seems to be trying to figure people out and push along his agenda. What I don't get is his push on you, and part of that being that you weren't on the DP vote. He says its not a factor, yet he brings it up twice. Now I understand hes been drinking tonight, so I want him to come along tomorrow and make some more sense. Basically his reads stand at odds with my own and id like a better insight. GK and ShiaoPi tunneling each other is interesting. ShiaoPi just went AWOL instead of trying to push his scum read and GK did much the same after they had both voted each other. I want to see if they continue pushing each other and how they go about doing that. Oats has been thoroughly useless, as discussed. I hope that he decides playing like an imbecile is boring soon and actually puts forward a decent case against you so I can get an idea of what he is actually thinking. I am reacting strongly towards oats on this because he had a box seat to Smurf Mafia being a co-host of that game. He clearly saw what kind of an effect a player like Kush can have on the town, yet hes choosing to mimic that here. What i'm starting to think is that he saw a towns reluctance to lynch an objectively scummy looking player and decided to replicate that here to his benefit. | ||
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I still want to hear more from him though. He was on me in a flash in Mexican Standoff and saw through my bullshit when most of the playerbase just accepted it outright. If he sees something in Hapa that I've missed, I want to hear it. | ||
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On June 23 2013 14:24 goodkarma wrote: I mean it's possible that literally the entire scumteam was inactive, but I find it highly unlikely. And the scumteam would not be trying to form up two scum bandwagons, so I don't understand how after the lynch today anyone can genuinely think that I'm scum... GK, what are you trying to say with this? specifically "And the scumteam would not be trying to form up two scum bandwagons". If there were two scum being pushed yesterday, why would we even consider that both (or either) of them were also being pushed by scum? | ||
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Ill let you know when I have a scum read I actually feel confident in. I want you to stop dicking around and make a real case that consists of more than a single line against someone. If thats me, then so be it, but make yourself useful. | ||
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On June 23 2013 20:27 Ange777 wrote: @Adam: Can you please clarify on the subject of your townreads? Are you saying that Cora, Marv and Hapa are your stronger town reads among the people who voted on GK or in general? What makes you so sure about them being town? They're my strongest townreads in the game, bar Yamato who would sit either first or second behind Cora. It still blows my mind that DP actually flipped scum, because when I compare both wagons side-by-side I see most of the towniest people all apparently on the wrong side of this lynch, and seemingly a hoard of semi-lurkers got together and offed the mafia godfather. To say i'm perplexed is an understatement. Cora is town to me because of his general attitude. He isn't afraid to be himself, even if it gets him lynched. Constantly trying to redirect people onto more productive endeavors - trying to get coag to stop tunneling marv who hasn't even posted in the thread yet, for example. He feels exactly the same way he did in Duel mafia, except his reasoning is stronger, which probably stems from playing a few games since then. Marv is town to me because we seem to be thinking along the same train of thought. The fact that his reads seem to echo most of my own fills me with some confidence that he is probably town. Hes been trying to figure people out from what I can tell and he seems to share my confusion with the current state of the game - that someone I've given a town read on probably has me tricked. His meta read on me is another plus. Hes probably the person most familiar with my scum play after our escapades in Hero mafia and hes got me nailed dead-to-rights - my scum play is wooden, not fluid and I am literally petrified of posting for fear of being accused. Hapa feels town because hes actually posting and engaging people. In duel I defended scum hapa for over a cycle before common-sense finally set in that I was defending him even when he wasn't defending himself. His willingness to engage me as soon as I joined the game, and again tonight, was more than I ever got out of him in Duel. Bottom line is if his post count drops off and he becomes withdrawn in the thread, hes scum - I don't see that from him here. He has one of the biggest filters in the thread and hes quick to interrogate people if he doesn't understand what they're saying. | ||
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Adam4167
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Ill ignore you until you don't make my piss rise to a boil. | ||
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I've just been privileged to play in a town that imploded after pushing 2 scum on day 1, due to the faulty logic "he wasn't on the scum lynch D1, therefore scummy" so i'm hesitant to make that call again here when I see objectively townie play from them, at least in my opinion. If either Marv or Hapa were scum with DP, they'd have rolled over this town and we'd have lynched OO for sure. Their thread control would have been enormous. No way they'd have let him get lynched if he was their teammate. | ||
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As per this post: On June 23 2013 14:15 Adam4167 wrote: I am reasonably caught up. Right now I want to see more out of GoodKarma, ShioaPi and Raynpelikoneet. Oats would be on this list as well if he weren't playing like a dick. I consider everyone on the DP wagon to be out of the question for tomorrow. Those of us that were on GK yesterday, I actually have some of my better townreads on: Cora, Marv and yourself (in that order). I don't consider anyone on the DP wagon to be a viable lynch for tomorrow, so I strike them off my list. I then take out the people I feel are town who were on the GK wagon - Cora, Hapa, Marv. This leaves me with 4 names: Yourself, ShiaoPi, GK and Oats. I liked your hustle on D1, so I feel most confident that you're town out of this bunch, so you come off. Oats is being a right shit, but most people seem to think hes town for it, so I move him to the maybe category. This leaves me with either GK or ShiaoPi. I doubt they're both scum together due to their actions on D1, so unless we're dealing with a 3 man scum team of DP, Oats and one of these two, I've already messed up somewhere in my logic. This leads me to conclude that either my town reads on the GK wagon are wrong, or that the scum are on the DP wagon and bussed him yesterday. I sincerely do not think the scum team bussed yesterday, for that they threw away an exceptional scum player with probably the best role to suit his play style. So I take a look at the 3 people I called town on the GK wagon with me... and all I see is town. I cant manufacture scum reads that I don't have. So this is where i'm at. I hope to have a better understanding of what actually happened D1 after the KP starts flying around the place. Where to tomorrow? Resolving the GK and ShiaoPi situation looks as good a place to start. I don't get a strong scum read off either of them by examining either of their filters. I don't find the cases that either of them put forward yesterday to be all that compelling either. Hence my comment on seeing what they did and how they did it. | ||
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Adam4167
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And apparently I was wasting my breath with Rayn. | ||
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With so many 3rd parties, it may even be a 3 man scum team. | ||
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Adam4167
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I was about ready to eat my words on you, because that did look pretty bad. :X | ||
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You saved me a day of talking to a brick wall. | ||
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I feel like we resolve this GK/SP situation and the endgame credits roll. | ||
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Where should we head today GK? | ||
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That's usually a town role, but we'll see. | ||
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Plus Cora claimed blue also. | ||
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On June 24 2013 10:07 Oatsmaster wrote: marv and yamato werent town. ha. GK saying he is obvtown instead of town is rubbing me the wrong way. Its like obv town is your appearance to the thread, town is your actual alignment. Im only inclined on lynching Adam/GK/Hapa today. I dont know what its about but hapa's play d2 has felt really off, like posts for the sake of it and stuff. So.. you want to lynch the two people Rayn was attacking when he died... when he didn't know he was going to die. Yeah. OK. | ||
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Anti-town? sure. Doesn't make it any less true. | ||
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Rayn was calling me scum right before he died. He was going to try and push me today. I am yet to comment on GK and SP because SP is yet to return to the thread. I want to hear them both out before I decide which way I want to go. I have zero reason to think you're anything. You post no justification for 95% of your 'reads'. I'd rather kill you than sit here and bash my head against a wall trying to figure out what you are. | ||
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Use. Your. Brain. | ||
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I'm town because i'm being exceptionally open with all my thoughts. People think you're town because you're irrational and useless. I know which I prefer. | ||
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I do not think a scum ShiaoPi would be giving me a town read of right here. Nor was I expecting GK to do it when he did, if he were actually scum. Something fucking fishy going on this game. | ||
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ShiaoPi felt genuine when we were discussing things earlier. I am reasonably certain I do not want to lynch him today. His desire to trade himself seems crazy at first glance, especially if hes not certain that GK is scum, but its town crazy By contrast, GK was certain that ShiaoPi was the last scum, but also left himself an out 'in case ShiaoPi somehow flipped town for some really odd reason' (then he would reconsider his town reads). Going by vote analysis alone, it would make sense that GK is also scum, as Rayn let his vote waste on OO rather than swing it over to GK after I threw mine on to get that wagon over the line and save DP. Granted, its entirely possible Rayn was AFK for the lynch. | ||
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On June 24 2013 18:48 Oatsmaster wrote: You played in Duel mini mafia, I am getting TOTALLY different vibes from that game. I replaced into this game with 50+ pages to read in 40 minutes, made what looks like a bad vote and am feeling frigging lost Oats, put yourself in my place for a minute. | ||
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Adam4167
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I do not get the same feel reading a game that I wasn't in than when I do playing in one. It clouds my reads. My obs reads are notoriously shit as a result. Trying to form legitimate scum reads was difficult this game, made especially difficult by the caliber of the players that rolled scum. So I focused on what I could do, find town reads, be as open and clear with my thought process as I could. I have been extremely upfront with the fact that my scum reads were lacking this game. | ||
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The second Dieno stepped into the thread in Duel, I had him bagged, Kierathi soon after. I was confident almost to a fault, I led a crusade against two reasonably townie looking players because I was running on such a high from dragging down two scum. No one was anywhere near that obvious this game, at least not to me. | ||
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If you're going to take everything I say and turn it around from a scummy perspective, then there's really not much else we have to say to each other. | ||
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It was a hypothetical look at how the end of day 1 played out. If GK were town, wouldn't Rayn have tried to save his scum teammate by voting GK off? Now if two scum were being pushed, Rayn would be better off saying nothing and just letting the lynch play out. The caveat is that the lynch seems to be in the middle of the night for him, so its entirely possible that he was asleep when this all played out and that is the reason he never moved his vote. Going by GK's current posting, hes looking town, so this is all moot. Oats, you've called me scum to the point of harassing me every time I step into the thread. You ask for everyones read on me, when they give it, you disagree and try to talk them out of it. You've clearly already decided that I am scum, so I want you to tell me why you are yet to vote me this entire cycle. Explain. | ||
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On June 25 2013 10:39 slOosh wrote: It would also be pretty nice if the people we are discussing would give (updating) reads on each other. That way, even if we mislynch it makes it invariably more difficult for scum to secure future mislynch targets. In case it wasn't clear: ShioPi is town. Goodkarma is town. I had the sneaking suspicion in the back my head that this was the case. I could not form a decent scum read on either of them, yet seemingly by process of elimination they were all I had to work with. Their posting today has confirmed that to me, that I was right to not just launch into lampooning either of them. Oats on the other hand has been badgering me since I got here, continually redirects discussion onto me and yet now only votes me after I call him out for not having done so already. Nah, hes our last scum. Now i'm confident. ##Vote: Oatsmaster | ||
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Hapa is ODD for unvoting GK - Possible scum? GK is scum claiming with his final post - So scum? I am scum and you vote me because I called you out for not having done so - Scum. You are floundering under pressure here. All 3 of us cannot be scum. | ||
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Hapa and Sloosh's unvote is not weird in light of that post by GK. If you cannot get how town that post makes him look, which you apparently cannot, since you said its a scum claim, then you are not looking at it properly and trying to figure out his alignment. It has genuine town frustration for yet again being the subject of discussion, despite his best efforts stamped all over it. | ||
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Why did he feel the need to instantly vote me when I called him out for not doing so? because he knows he should have had his vote in there a long time ago. I called him out for an inconsistency, and he quickly tried to correct that, while saying that 'votes don't matter man'. If he truly believed they didn't matter, why did he vote me? | ||
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It is both. I called you out for an inconsistency and you tried to cover it up, brushing it away with the logic "votes don't matter". | ||
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God you make no damn sense. | ||
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On June 25 2013 12:40 Oatsmaster wrote: lynch Adam hapa. Lynnnch. Go ahead. You'll be exposed for what you are after I die. | ||
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His interactions with Rayn and his posting on D2. Rayn shoots down ShiaoPi's case against GK, pretty handily dismisses it because it is poorly applied meta: On June 22 2013 00:37 raynpelikoneet wrote: . My problem is that you are voting for GK based on meta, because he once made a bad case against someone as scum. Guess what? Townies make bad cases too, especially early on in the game. I am not saying i think GK is town, but you seem to be so sure he is scum because of this meta you are describing, especially when you are under attack from some people now. If you are going to make a meta case at least get your facts straight. Look at Les Mafia, look at GK's case on me and tell me that the case GK made can only come from a scum!GK. I don't think this is scum v scum talk. If it were, shutting down his case effectively forces him to go and jump on another bandwagon, increasing the chances he's going to draw attention to himself. Why would you bother? this case may have taken off, it almost did. GK almost died D1. On D2, ShiaoPi comes in less confident in his read on GK: On June 24 2013 14:31 ShiaoPi wrote: Ok I am caught up now. But mostly just skimmed the thread.Will be doing some rereading/filterdiving next. let me just post this on GK right now, since it looks like most of you want to lynch either him or me. On Goodkarma: I am really really torn on him right now. On Day 1 I was pretty sure that he was scum. Currently not so much anymore, there are still posts, which make me go, well that's scumGK, but there is also stuff that makes me want to think him town. First off on the sucm tally we got his entire scumhunting effort. I don't remember playing a game with him where he was town, but I kept hearing from several people in I swear and here that he needs time to get started but is then a good townplayer in his own right. I just do not see it here. His cases have been pretty fucking trash. But posts like these: Also exist. They are pretty townie (even if wrong on me) on the mentality side of the game. Because largely based on elimination I also ended up with only him left, if we just go with face value of how things went down so far. Ergo if we do not assume some crazy plays with bussing on d1 for no reason etc. Having said this I am perfectly fine to trade with GK, so just lynch me first to get my town flip and then go kill him. Just wanted to post this before I go rereading Even so far as to say he uses a townie mentality. Put yourself in his position here. There's probably two other viable lynches today other than himself. GK and Me. Oats hes already called town previously. I don't think scum are going to come back into the thread, call their main tunnel all game probably town, then look at the next obvious target (me) and say that he's giving off town vibes. It just doesn't leave you any options. He freely admits that this doesn't leave him any solid targets, agreeing with my 'being lostness'. What is his endgame with this strategy if he's scum? He's just going to call everyone town and hope they forget about him? We're all probably getting lynched at some point, its just a matter of what order, as GK has pointed out. His willingness to reexamine Sloosh and OO is townie thoroughness/paranoia after he concludes i'm possibly town and he doesn't like any of the options in this group. As was his paranoia towards hapa. I think what happened here was both GK and ShiaoPi came into this game with their previous scum adventures fresh on their minds, and got a case of confirmation bias on each other and went tunneling. I did the exact same thing with Cyber_Cheese in Mafia L after our first scum game. I do not think he is scum. | ||
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He goes from: On June 25 2013 10:45 Oatsmaster wrote: I dont think gk's post is alignment indicative, hapa immediately unvoting is REALLY FUCKING ODD. Martyring isnt alignment indicative, and if gk stays alive to lylo, is he benefit to town? no because even as town he gave up. SO KILL HIM. I don't think its alignment indicative. Add in casting suspicion onto Hapa for a legitimate unvote and also apparently knowing that GK gave up 'as town'. To: On June 25 2013 10:55 Oatsmaster wrote: Hapa, I just saw what I feel is a scumclaim. A SCUMCLAIM. A SCUMCLAIM. In 10 minutes. His justification is: On June 25 2013 11:04 Oatsmaster wrote: I changed my mind hapa, I currently think that town would not have martyred in the best way to not get himself lynched. Like all the other people selfvoting havent been so thought through. I don't think a townie would ragequit in a way that makes himself look this townie, therefore its a scumclaim. Read that again if you have to. I do not buy this explanation one bit. Look at his attitude towards me. He has been hammering me since I got in here, and utterly refuses to listen to anything I put forward about why I am not scum, nor does he listen to why other people think I might be town. I gave a legitimate response for why I was not playing up to my Duel mafia standards, for which he had no rebuttal. He then uses the same argument again as a reason I am scum when discussing with OO. This kind of blatant disregard for anything coming out of your targets mouth is scummy. You know they're making a point that you cant argue, but you keep harping on it anyway. The one time he shows some form of insecurity in his read towards me? The post he votes me in. That is scummy. If you're sure I'm scum, as he damn well appears to be, drop your vote, call me scum and start convincing everyone else of your viewpoint. Instead, its this: On June 25 2013 10:53 Oatsmaster wrote: ##vote adam Because the last time as you have quoted I tunneled people, against many people, they flipped town. Is it like that again? "Last time I tunneled someone to death against what everyone was saying they flipped town. Is that happening again?" This attitude does not gel with voting someone. He's apparently reconsidering yet voting to kill me in the same post. Inconsistent. Scummy. I already went over this before but ill go over it again. I called him out for not having a vote for me. He felt insecure and the need to correct that perceived wrong so he slapped his vote down as soon as he could. One minute later, he's saying "Votes dont matter man", so why did he vote in the first place if they don't matter! He realized he made a mistake and tried to downplay it. If he felt votes didn't matter, he would have responded to my first post with "it doesn't matter now, ill vote you later in the day after the discussion is over", but that isn't what happened. | ||
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Oats, if you don't plan on pushing for my lynch, and you sure as hell didn't defend ShiaoPi, someone you just called town, from being lynched - what DO you plan on doing this game? I refuse to believe GK is scum. If he has to resort to these kind of shit tactics to win as scum, he can have it, but I wont be signing up to play with him again. GK, if you're town then get in here and give us your new perspective since your scum read just flipped town. Otherwise, replace out. | ||
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ShiaoPi wasn't really in danger of getting lynched...... you do realize hes DEAD right? You were clearly here at the lynch, yet you said nothing. | ||
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BOGGLES! | ||
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Alright. This is getting us absolutely nowhere. I propose a deal to you. We both came to the same (correct!) conclusion on ShiaoPi. We take one day of the next cycle where we do not attack each other. We go through everyone else in the game and try to come up with SOMETHING that isn't both of us slinging shit at each other. If after that day we still have nothing, we happily go back to voting each other and then town can flip one of us. Deal? | ||
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His interactions with Rayn looked pretty good to me, maybe that's bias from being on the receiving end of his shit also. Does this feel like Hapa from Duel? it took him 3 full cycles to get an 8 page filter there, he shit that out in half a day here. His scum play in that game was very.. hands-off and reserved, he largely sat back saying nice things while we all went at each other. That is about the opposite of what I see out of Hapa this game. | ||
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Go look at any of Hapa's scum games, they're all really low filter count compared to his town games. All of his town games are in excess of 20+ page filters unless he dies early. Hes well on track for that again here. I can see the frustration and confusion in his text, I feel more confident that Hapa is town right now than just about anyone else. | ||
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Me and you also played together briefly in... LX... or possibly LXI, where I replaced in, did nothing except sheep supermarv. So no, this isn't the first time we've played together at all. | ||
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Why would he want to downplay my tunnel on you? | ||
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Who did the SK shoot last night? | ||
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I caught Z-Boson red handed and then he replaced out and I spent 3 cycles smashing my head against a wall over his horrible cases while getting called scum the whole time. | ||
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Thats that KP accounted for. Coag shot Rayn, no one is disputing that. That leaves 1KP, on the target of the person that lead the lynch on the scum GF, so scum factional is a safe bet here. From a setup perspective, SK is extremely unlikely, as is two families of two. There just wouldn't be enough townies in the game with whats already been flipped. I think we keep it simple here and work with 1 scum remaining. Traitor is also a possibility as was earlier proposed. | ||
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On June 26 2013 12:26 Hapahauli wrote: It's not even that I think you're scum at this point. It's that I have such a hard time believing that anyone else could be scum. Like on behavior, this conversation gives me town vibes with both you and Adam. If so, then who's scum? Do we spite-lynch GK tomorrow then cross our fingers? My thoughts exactly. This conversation is actually flowing quite naturally. So then I consider maybe a traitor that inadvertently bussed DP on D1 without knowing it. But does a roleblocking traitor even make sense?! Someone roleblocked Cora and they're not claiming it. Something hinkey is happening in this game, I felt it on D2 when Shiao and GK both looked town and im getting it again now. | ||
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What good is a townside roleblocker when you cant roleblock factional KP and the one scum powerrole we have seen launched during the daytime? | ||
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What friggen good is a town RB in this setup? A town JK I can see, for stopping damage potential. But a flat town RB is dogshit here as it does zero except interfere with other town roles. I don't think we have two townside JK's. | ||
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Adam4167
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Adam4167
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Giving an extra vote to the mafia is borderline broken. The mafias sole objective in this game is to increase their voting power to the point where it overwhelms the town. Giving them a hidden vote brings them one step closer to that objective (LYLO), without the town knowing it. It almost serves as having another mafia player, without having someone saying shit in the thread to get caught. | ||
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Adam4167
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On June 26 2013 12:49 Hapahauli wrote: Even sloOsh - he hammered DP and has shown many times more the engagement in scumhunting and posting than I've ever seen him do as scum. If not sloosh, then we've come full circle and we're back to a complete crapshoot with GK, whos rage-quit the game. I'd like to here more out of Sloosh today, hes been reasonably quiet and I know hes a capable player. When i'm catching him in filter after he had a 48 hour head start, I raise an eyebrow. | ||
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Adam4167
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There's a handful of people that all have more reasons to be dead tonight than Hapa, this was a night kill aimed at shutting down discussion. I want everyone posting. The last 36 hours was predominately me, oats and Hapa, I want to see more out of the rest of you. Write cases on who you think is scum. No one is off the table. OO, I look forward to reading more fleshed out reads from your last paragraph there. Still no sloosh and its been 24 hours since his last post. | ||
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Adam4167
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Adam4167
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I posted one minute after you, where the flipping shit did you go? | ||
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Did the conversation last night between me, oats and Hapa change your opinion on any of us? | ||
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Adam4167
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I need you to keep an open mind today because I've just come across something very important. | ||
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Adam4167
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Continue going about your business. | ||
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Adam4167
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I don't think hes it. | ||
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Adam4167
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On June 27 2013 15:19 cDgCorazon wrote: So Adam, are you going to tell us what you found? Nah, I was jumping at shadows. I miscounted the votes on D1, leading me to a false conclusion. | ||
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Adam4167
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The more i read, the more I just keep coming back to him. If we don't hear about him being replaced soon, then I want him to be the default lynch today. We're coming up on a full cycle without him now and i'm starting to get irked by this. | ||
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Adam4167
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There's WIFOM and then there's just plain stupid. I sincerely doubt a Scum Oats would back himself to close out this game on his own when he could have got a step closer with Hapa barking at everyone that called Oats scum. Nope. nope. nope. I would have been overjoyed to be in this situation 72 hours ago, but no, this isn't right. | ||
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Adam4167
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On June 28 2013 02:14 ObviousOne wrote: Adam, this makes sense to me but how do you reconcile that inconsistency from Oats is scummy when Oats is by definition inconsistent? Can you see a case for Oats literally spending this entire game reaction fishing (my term for it, not sure what to actually call it)? I believe it could be possible, however unlikely, for him to adapt his town style to this game if he's the last remaining scum. That means his agenda will always be his own and not of his teams, so being his town self (random, inconsistent, scummy-looking) would be to his benefit here. The problem with this theory is that he's been doing it the whole game. I can't identify a transition from team mentality to solo-Oats mentality in his filter. Yeah. Oats reactionary play style this game pissed me off initially, hence why I said I was happy to see him die (and I was still sour from smurf, if you couldn't tell). I'm not all that familiar with Oats scum play, having only played half a game with him when he was scum. In regards to specific scum tells, I don't know that he has any glaringly obvious ones. I default to Hapa in regards to Oats meta, his meta reads are usually very solid. Also, hes just not... careful enough. His justification for why he panic voted me was 'because its funny', for example. | ||
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Adam4167
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On June 28 2013 02:31 goodkarma wrote: Before you go "I don't want this guy at LYLO," maybe you should visualize how the rest of the game might transpire first? Like who are you going to lynch and when? Hapa was discussing coming up with a plan (if I recall correctly anyway... filter-diving too much effort.). Maybe that's what scum feared most? In any case it makes the game much easier if truly scumteam didn't bus day one. That means you lynch Adam, Oats, and me in whatever order you want and you win. I'm still inclined to run with this scenario for the time being though idk maybe it's wrong. Of those the guy who probably would be most likely to not concede in a lost scumgame would be Oats. ##Vote: Oats OK, great. So you were reading the thread this whole time. Who did you jail last night? Why? | ||
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Adam4167
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A single vote, a townie does not make. You guys made your DP vote on D1 and have sat back and done SFA since. I feel like i'm sitting here talking to Oats and myself there rest of the time. | ||
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Adam4167
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I asked for reads on all 3 of us in the apparent 'lynch pool of death' and I got nada. Some waffle about Oats antagonizing Cora on D1. If you're town, do you think the level of activity and effort in this game has been acceptable in the last 72 hours? There's only one answer here. | ||
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Adam4167
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If everyone on the apparent confirmed DP wagon is town, then use that 'confirmed' status instead of posting once a day! If everyone on there is town, theyll have nothing to hide about us poking around and asking questions. Instead I am getting "NO YOUR GETTING LYNCHED SOON, STOP QUESTIONING THE RULING ELITE AND DIE QUIETLY" Its bullshit. | ||
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Adam4167
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I HATE losing as town. HATE. This attitude of "Oh we're done here, lets just clock out", is exceptionally weak. I ask you this: You lynch Oats today, Lynch GK tomorrow, they both flip town. You're going to lynch me after that, in spite of everything I have said and done in this thread. That one vote was the only defining action in my play and now i'm destined to my fate regardless of anything I say? Is that correct? | ||
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On June 28 2013 13:29 cDgCorazon wrote: Your only defense is meta? You realize that a good scum player can change his meta to look town? I'm reading Oats scum game in LIX now. Not being offensive here, but a good scum player is not what I would define him as. Hes too helpful, non-confrontational, and he gives off zero reads. That's about the polar opposite to Oats here. Seriously, go take a look at that game, then come back and look at this one. | ||
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Adam4167
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He doesn't even call his 'targets' scum. Just implies they were doing nothing. Granted he did that a bit to me here, but he was very happy to call me scum several times. As opposed to this game, hes calling DP and Hapa scum after about... 6 hours game time and has already voted Cora for 'being stupid'. Night and day difference. | ||
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On June 28 2013 13:45 slOosh wrote: The easy way to do it is argue that GK is more likely scum than we thought due to his attitude shift. But I don't know if cora wants to listen to me (or anyone) anymore due to the shiaopi switch last cycle. Then hopefully Cora can see that this is a good chance to correct the mistake of last cycle. | ||
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Adam4167
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On June 28 2013 14:41 cDgCorazon wrote: You've done almost zero to look town this game. That's why you are going to die. Town, you have 2 options: 1. Convince Coag to vote GK 2. Follow my lynch preference. It's that simple, have fun. Holding the town hostage and being completely closed off to reason is pretty shitty. | ||
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Adam4167
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On June 24 2013 10:10 HiroPro wrote: In regards to the role PMs posted after flips: The non-mafia that have flipped have had their complete role PMs posted. The mafia that have flipped have information removed from their PM that has nothing to do with their individual role. Sloosh, this is why I want more out of everybody, even the so-called confirmed. Something was told to the mafia that the rest of us aren't getting told. If there was some kind of traitor that joined the scum team on D2, then a single vote on DP counts for nothing. We're in a closed setup, anything is possible. | ||
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Adam4167
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I don't know if hes scum, but this is a better choice than Oats. | ||
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On June 29 2013 10:15 cDgCorazon wrote: Idiots. What the fuck is your problem, seriously? You gave the town two options, bow down to your bullshit or convince coag to switch. We succeeded in the latter and now you're throwing a hissy fit over it AFTER WE LYNCHED ONE OF THE TWO PEOPLE YOU HAD MARKED AS PROBABLE SCUM. Grow up. | ||
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Adam4167
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Deciding reads on D1 and then lynching into them regardless of any new developments in the thread is just stubborn and shortsighted. It relies entirely on your early game being so exceptional that you can bust the entire scum team from a single flip. I can count the number of times I've seen that happen on one hand and I've been here a damn long time! We've done this exact dance before in Duel, except this time its Oats instead of Sylencia. Back on point: what the fuck is OO doing. Again I call him useless and he doesn't even respond, he comes in, drops his vote on GK and then bails out - completely avoiding contribution. He still hasn't delivered anything resembling a read that I asked him for. On June 27 2013 02:36 ObviousOne wrote: Oats, Sloosh, and Adam are all the furthest from town on the spectrum so I will probably have to take a look at each of them again. Oats I've written off as town based mostly on his town meta, Sloosh I originally gave a town read for because I could see exactly where he was coming from regarding my slot among other things, Adam had a super strong start outside of his vote but I don't hold the vote against him as it was made in haste so I need to do a comb-over for his content. Somewhere in here that has to be a motive for blocking Cora. There you go, that's where I'm headed. His last post of any substance he says that Oats, Sloosh and Me are all the furthest from town on the spectrum, yet we never hear back about why sloosh is not so town anymore, nor does he comment on me. He throws out some random post on Oats and Cora from D1 and then he jumps on a GK vote. So OO, time to step up. You are just plodding along with thread sentiment this game and doing absolutely nothing constructive. Your egregious lack of scum hunting and general effort this game has run its course. Put your apparent confirmed status to work, get in here and make a case on all 3 of those players you consider the furthest from town. | ||
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Adam4167
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Its filled with complete conjecture and speculation. The only concrete thing you have in there is that I had no confidence in my reads, which is something I freely admitted. That does not make me scum in any way, shape or form. | ||
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Adam4167
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Why does this case on me only appear after I badger you for half a cycle to produce something. | ||
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I've had to provoke you into actually scum hunting, and then when you finally come to the party, you deliver a very biased and speculative case full of 'what ifs' on the person provoking you. My reaction is completely justified. I look forward to seeing what you have to say on Sloosh and Oats. | ||
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Adam4167
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On June 29 2013 23:35 slOosh wrote: Like this is very hypocritical. What is the most recent thing to happen in thread? GK flipped town. Ok, so we know that the very close D1 DP-GK lynch was between scum and town. Who is the first person that Adam goes after? OO, who was one of the main components of DP. Oats I need your reviewed read of Adam, or whoever you want to lynch tomorrow. How is that hypocritical. My reads have changed and that evolution process is present in my filter. With the information that GK was town, and Oats is someone I now have a solid meta read on, I turn and look at everyone else in the game. Because clearly things are not as simple as they seem. OO cites my lack of confidence in scum reads as a reason why i'm scum. Here's a better explanation: I'm town and all the people I was looking at were town! we've flipped 2/3 of them and they've both been damn town. GEE, no wonder I wasn't confident about finding scum in there. What is your aversion to me pressing OO? If i'm wrong then his towniness will shine through and ill move along. | ||
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Adam4167
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If you guys think that lynching the person that has gone against thread sentiment since the moment he got into the game is a good idea, then you're either scum or stupid. You can check your role PM to find out which. While everyone else was content sitting back doing absolutely nothing, I was still working to solve this game. I can only conclude that there is some kind of 2nd family or 3rd party at work here to explain why OO and DP went at each other so hard, yet OO still acts scummy as fuck. ##Vote: ObviousOne Whatever, I am tired of talking to stupid. See yall in the post game. | ||
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Adam4167
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On July 01 2013 01:31 slOosh wrote: Show me My stance on Oats D2/N2: On June 25 2013 17:40 Adam4167 wrote: Sloosh, here is my solidified post as to why I think Oats is scum. First, look at Oats attitude towards the GK ragequit post. He goes from: I don't think its alignment indicative. Add in casting suspicion onto Hapa for a legitimate unvote and also apparently knowing that GK gave up 'as town'. To: A SCUMCLAIM. In 10 minutes. His justification is: I don't think a townie would ragequit in a way that makes himself look this townie, therefore its a scumclaim. Read that again if you have to. I do not buy this explanation one bit. Look at his attitude towards me. He has been hammering me since I got in here, and utterly refuses to listen to anything I put forward about why I am not scum, nor does he listen to why other people think I might be town. I gave a legitimate response for why I was not playing up to my Duel mafia standards, for which he had no rebuttal. He then uses the same argument again as a reason I am scum when discussing with OO. This kind of blatant disregard for anything coming out of your targets mouth is scummy. You know they're making a point that you cant argue, but you keep harping on it anyway. The one time he shows some form of insecurity in his read towards me? The post he votes me in. That is scummy. If you're sure I'm scum, as he damn well appears to be, drop your vote, call me scum and start convincing everyone else of your viewpoint. Instead, its this: "Last time I tunneled someone to death against what everyone was saying they flipped town. Is that happening again?" This attitude does not gel with voting someone. He's apparently reconsidering yet voting to kill me in the same post. Inconsistent. Scummy. I already went over this before but ill go over it again. I called him out for not having a vote for me. He felt insecure and the need to correct that perceived wrong so he slapped his vote down as soon as he could. One minute later, he's saying "Votes dont matter man", so why did he vote in the first place if they don't matter! He realized he made a mistake and tried to downplay it. If he felt votes didn't matter, he would have responded to my first post with "it doesn't matter now, ill vote you later in the day after the discussion is over", but that isn't what happened. On June 25 2013 11:18 Hapahauli wrote: No Oats isn't scum. This is so absurdly inconsistent and spazzy that it has to be town. Going to look through Shiao/Adam one more time. On June 25 2013 11:13 slOosh wrote: Could you rephrase this sentence please Oats? I don't understand. Right now I'm still finding myself siding with Oats over Adam. Oats is right in that the things that Adam are bringing up aren't that substantive. The only thing against Oats is this GK thing, but I can guess a town motivation which would fit with Oats, so just waiting for him to say it I guess. In anycase I have to bounce for now. On June 24 2013 08:51 Coagulation wrote: yep oats is town. this isnt new. lets talk about coraz. Poll: Coraz - Bad or Scum? Bad (8) Scum (1) 9 total votes Your vote: Coraz - Bad or Scum? After persisting for a while longer, I step off my oats tunnel because its starting to shit up the thread and get senseless. On June 26 2013 11:21 Adam4167 wrote: Piles and piles of WIFOM. Alright. This is getting us absolutely nowhere. I propose a deal to you. We both came to the same (correct!) conclusion on ShiaoPi. We take one day of the next cycle where we do not attack each other. We go through everyone else in the game and try to come up with SOMETHING that isn't both of us slinging shit at each other. If after that day we still have nothing, we happily go back to voting each other and then town can flip one of us. Deal? My read on oats D3 onwards: On June 26 2013 12:31 Adam4167 wrote: My thoughts exactly. This conversation is actually flowing quite naturally. So then I consider maybe a traitor that inadvertently bussed DP on D1 without knowing it. But does a roleblocking traitor even make sense?! Someone roleblocked Cora and they're not claiming it. Something hinkey is happening in this game, I felt it on D2 when Shiao and GK both looked town and im getting it again now. In the above, I start to consider that he is legitimately town and my tunnel was completely wrong. Day 3 starts, Hapa dies. Then oats gets bumrushed by the entire thread. On June 27 2013 09:16 cDgCorazon wrote: ##Vote: Oatsmaster We need to lynch one of my targets now. On June 27 2013 12:12 slOosh wrote: Jumping around with no consistency, dropping all prior scumreads to pick up new ones with no reasoning, basically going with anyone who might be lynched. ##Vote: Oatsmaster Adam if you have specific questions, feel free to pick at my brain. On June 28 2013 02:31 goodkarma wrote: Before you go "I don't want this guy at LYLO," maybe you should visualize how the rest of the game might transpire first? Like who are you going to lynch and when? Hapa was discussing coming up with a plan (if I recall correctly anyway... filter-diving too much effort.). Maybe that's what scum feared most? In any case it makes the game much easier if truly scumteam didn't bus day one. That means you lynch Adam, Oats, and me in whatever order you want and you win. I'm still inclined to run with this scenario for the time being though idk maybe it's wrong. Of those the guy who probably would be most likely to not concede in a lost scumgame would be Oats. ##Vote: Oats On June 28 2013 03:07 Coagulation wrote: ##vote oats To which i've now flipped my opinion, due to my discussion with oats the night before: On June 27 2013 14:55 Adam4167 wrote: Cora, I'm pretty sure oats is town. I need you to keep an open mind today because I've just come across something very important. On June 27 2013 15:12 Adam4167 wrote: I'm going to be honest here, as much as I may not gel with Oats playstyle, the discussion that the 3 of us were having yesterday would be very hard to fake as scum. It was freeflowing, and neither of them felt on edge or like they were withholding anything. I don't think hes it. If I were scum and he were town, why would I dig my heels in over this? I'd sell him up the river for calling me scum earlier in the game. Furthermore, I spent a majority of this cycle trying to move the vote from Oats who posted this: On June 28 2013 10:12 Oatsmaster wrote: Who I want at Lylo? Me Adam Coag Then I lynch adam for the win. You see, this is kinda useless. To GK, who's had previously said this: On June 25 2013 09:53 goodkarma wrote: Kinda a pain, as that means between Hapa, Oats, Adam, Shao, you need to determine one you absolutely believe to be townie in determining the last scum. Sadly, I would say Adam is someone I like more than the other three right now. What possible scum motivation could I have for trying to defend someone who's just openly declared that they'd lynch me at lylo as opposed to the inactive who's flirting with a modkill that's just called me the most townie of the lynch bait. There isn't one. As scum, I'm taking GK to the next round there every day of the week. I pushed to keep Oats alive (YOURE WELCOME), because I wanted ACTIVE posters that were still here and playing the game. My read on ShiaoPi: On June 24 2013 15:24 Adam4167 wrote: Mhmm, this is exactly what I was afraid of. I do not think a scum ShiaoPi would be giving me a town read of right here. Nor was I expecting GK to do it when he did, if he were actually scum. Something fucking fishy going on this game. On June 25 2013 13:36 Adam4167 wrote: I find ShiaoPi to be more likely town for two reasons: His interactions with Rayn and his posting on D2. Rayn shoots down ShiaoPi's case against GK, pretty handily dismisses it because it is poorly applied meta: . I don't think this is scum v scum talk. If it were, shutting down his case effectively forces him to go and jump on another bandwagon, increasing the chances he's going to draw attention to himself. Why would you bother? this case may have taken off, it almost did. GK almost died D1. On D2, ShiaoPi comes in less confident in his read on GK: Even so far as to say he uses a townie mentality. Put yourself in his position here. There's probably two other viable lynches today other than himself. GK and Me. Oats hes already called town previously. I don't think scum are going to come back into the thread, call their main tunnel all game probably town, then look at the next obvious target (me) and say that he's giving off town vibes. It just doesn't leave you any options. He freely admits that this doesn't leave him any solid targets, agreeing with my 'being lostness'. What is his endgame with this strategy if he's scum? He's just going to call everyone town and hope they forget about him? We're all probably getting lynched at some point, its just a matter of what order, as GK has pointed out. His willingness to reexamine Sloosh and OO is townie thoroughness/paranoia after he concludes i'm possibly town and he doesn't like any of the options in this group. As was his paranoia towards hapa. I think what happened here was both GK and ShiaoPi came into this game with their previous scum adventures fresh on their minds, and got a case of confirmation bias on each other and went tunneling. I did the exact same thing with Cyber_Cheese in Mafia L after our first scum game. I do not think he is scum. I call ShiaoPi town. Firstly, I highlighted this in this paragraph that ive quoted already, but what the heck reason would I have to do this as scum? I've just called every other lynch bait mislynch around me town. That only serves to limit my options for later potential mislynches. Then..: On June 26 2013 05:07 Hapahauli wrote: ##Vote ShiaoPi Last scum... I don't think it's Oats. It's definitely not GK. It might be Adam, but his posting just sounds so terrible in his scum-games, and he seems interested in figuring out the game right now. Even if he's barking up the wrong tree with Oats, his suspicions are basically what happens when someone plays with Oats the first time. I think it's Shiao. His recent push on GK (in spite of the towniest martyr ever) is troublesome. Also his transition from "fuck me I'm lost I guess I'll vote GK cause he's my only possible lead" to -----> OMG GK claimed JK he scumscum doesn't strike me as organic. On June 26 2013 05:14 ObviousOne wrote: ##vote ShiaoPi Coag, lend me your vote. I know you be readin'. On June 26 2013 07:37 slOosh wrote: Bleh, I can't do it. Nothing is satisfying in my head. Going with a gut call, not sure what to expect: ##Vote: ShiaoPi The town turns on him and kills him anyway. The general state of the game: On June 28 2013 12:56 slOosh wrote: Dude, morale is a huge part of the game. Maybe it's your personality, maybe it's because you replaced in, maybe it's because you are on the chopping block, and maybe it's the vice versa for the rest of the crew, but being lazy doesn't necessitate scum. And lynching based off activity levels is foolish. And lynching based of arbitrary levels of effort is also foolish. Since when does something like motivation trump reason? I bet you, if you asked all the players after D2 that if you could choose to win or lose the game by simultaneously lynching into Hapa / Adam / Oats / GK, every single person would have taken that deal. And I bet if you ask each person that same question now, they would still take it. What's more to give? What's more to do? It's all said and done. If you want to off GK first, honestly, I'm not that adverse to it. On June 28 2013 12:53 Adam4167 wrote: OK, We've gone over that logical line a thousand times and it keeps bringing us back to the same place. The place where our reads conflict with our logic. If everyone on the apparent confirmed DP wagon is town, then use that 'confirmed' status instead of posting once a day! If everyone on there is town, theyll have nothing to hide about us poking around and asking questions. Instead I am getting "NO YOUR GETTING LYNCHED SOON, STOP QUESTIONING THE RULING ELITE AND DIE QUIETLY" Its bullshit. The fact that I have continually challenged the idea that the scum was in the initial pool of 'non confirmed' and have been fighting against this idea since about day 3. I can tell you exactly what I would be doing right now if I were scum. I'd have been feeding you guys mislynch after mislynch of all of these lynchbaits, not calling them town. I don't think I have taken an easy position since I got here. Its tiring and frankly I'm spent. Sick of arguing that someone is town only to be proven right with each successive mislynch. Add on top of that, the complete lack of critical thinking or ability to reconsider what everyone is taking for granted. Hence why I peaced out. | ||
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Sloosh, the fact that you're still asking me to put content in the thread rather than just laying dormant until my death means that you're probably town, among other things I liked in your filter. Assuming this game even goes another cycle after I die, have a complete reread of my filter before the end of the night phase. | ||
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Being on the wrong side of that lynch was not awful, especially considering the company around you (Hapa, Marv). That and half the town had you as town still just through your meta and attitude. Was a bit of an overreaction but considering your role, nothing really changed. If you are going to claim, do it during the day, when you've already got half a dozen votes piled on you, but there's still at least 12 hours until the lynch. Anything before that is premature in my opinion. | ||
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On July 05 2013 12:25 ObviousOne wrote: Btw oats was town as fuck all game I don't know what you guys have against him =\ I kind of just wanted to see what happened. Plus I wanted him dead before LYLO. Turns out, I wasn't out of line with that thinking. Then I decided to actually start playing the game. | ||
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I was killed for having an unpopular opinion. That's what 'got me killed'. | ||
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I spent the whole day campaigning to keep you alive, managed to convince sloosh to switch, then coag followed suit. Then you voted me the next morning anyway :S. I didn't want to prevent my death. I was HOPING that after I died, that might legitimize my reads so you guys might take another look at OO. Wishful thinking on my behalf. | ||
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You being insane would cancel his godfather, still giving a red check. Yeah, id feel pretty ripped off dying to a cop check as godfather. | ||
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