• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 00:09
CEST 06:09
KST 13:09
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Ascent8Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview12[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt2: Take-Off7[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt1: Runway132v2 & SC: Evo Complete: Weekend Double Feature4
Community News
LiuLi Cup - September 2025 Tournaments2Weekly Cups (August 25-31): Clem's Last Straw?39Weekly Cups (Aug 18-24): herO dethrones MaxPax6Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris64Weekly Cups (Aug 11-17): MaxPax triples again!15
StarCraft 2
General
Production Quality - Maestros of the Game Vs RSL 2 #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy Geoff 'iNcontroL' Robinson has passed away Heaven's Balance Suggestions (roast me)
Tourneys
Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 490 Masters of Midnight Mutation # 489 Bannable Offense Mutation # 488 What Goes Around Mutation # 487 Think Fast
Brood War
General
BSL Polish World Championship 2025 20-21 September [ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Ascent BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ The Korean Terminology Thread Pros React To: herO's Baffling Game
Tourneys
[ASL20] Ro16 Group A [IPSL] ISPL Season 1 Winter Qualis and Info! [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Is there English video for group selection for ASL
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine UK Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 2024 - 2026 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s)
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale
Blogs
Collective Intelligence: Tea…
TrAiDoS
A very expensive lesson on ma…
Garnet
hello world
radishsoup
Lemme tell you a thing o…
JoinTheRain
RTS Design in Hypercoven
a11
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
INDEPENDIENTE LA CTM
XenOsky
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1026 users

Catch 22 Mafia - Page 9

Forum Index > TL Mafia
Post a Reply
Prev 1 7 8 9 10 Next All
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
June 23 2013 11:53 GMT
#1280
Unless something absolutely amazing comes up, there's not a chance we're lynching Hapa tomorrow
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
June 23 2013 12:14 GMT
#1283
Not really, not quite sure how you read it that way. Corazon didn't try very hard to move the lynch off mafia (DP) even though he'd earlier professed a strong townread on him. This is with the caveat that the reasoning only holds up if goodkarma is actually town.

Tell me what you're thinking about him, then?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
June 23 2013 12:16 GMT
#1285
On June 23 2013 21:14 Ange777 wrote:
Just to be clear, I had Cora as town until that halfhearted push on goodkarma. But take that push and his seemingly opportunistic (blue) role claim or not claim (why even mention it? Mentioning it can only be in order to make people doubt their scum read on him and will make him prone for possible roleblocks) and I don't see how you can so happily put him on your town list.


If he is indeed mafia, then mafia will have to waste their roleblock on him now, rather than searching for 'real' blues. I'd argue the blue-claim is more him being a dejected arse.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
June 23 2013 12:38 GMT
#1292
On June 23 2013 21:28 Ange777 wrote:
Well if he is indeed mafia, then I believe he has sucessfully made town worry about killing off their blues. I assume you meant "if he is indeed blue"?

I am racking my brain but I really have difficulties to understand what you are trying to explain to me. Is it this?

Cora has a town read on DarthPunk (flipped scum). He says he doesn't want his town read DarthPunk dead, therefore votes goodkarma. Only if we know that goodkarma is green and Cora tried to push the lynch from a scum player to a town player, we can peg him as scum?

What if - speculations incoming - goodkarma is a mafia goon. Losing their mafia goon instead of their godfather would certainly be a better trade, especially as DarthPunk is considered a better scum player than goodkarma by a lot of us. If the above really is what you wanted to tell me, than I don't think it's logic is as sound as you think it is.


No, I meant if he's mafia fakeclaiming, then they're gonna have to hide their roleblock on him otherwise he's gonna have to answer some tricky questions. So they won't be roleblocking other, potential blues.

Also no, that's not what I was getting at at all. Sigh. That's not what I've written either, I guess it's a language barrier thing. I'm trying to say that Corazon would look signifcantly *worse* if GK was also scum rather than if GK was town (because in this scenario Corazon barely tried to get the lynch off DP).
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
June 23 2013 12:45 GMT
#1294
Oats, he was asked specifically about them.

What the fuck is wrong with so many people this game going "why u talk about x" when every single time it's because the person was asked about x. Christ.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
June 23 2013 15:43 GMT
#1316
On June 23 2013 22:28 Ange777 wrote:
Marv, I remember you being pretty active and vocal and pushy. You feel very reserved in this game. And I don't like that.

How did you go from here ...

Show nested quote +
On June 23 2013 01:58 marvellosity wrote:

People I think are town to varying degrees:

Corazon
Oats
rayn
yamato

People I have reason to think they're both town and mafia:

ShiaoPi
goodkarma

People I'm unsure about but I think they're bad lynches:

Hapahauli
Sylencia
DarthPunk
Coagulation

People that I'd like to kill:

Ange
slOosh
Obvious


... to here ...

Show nested quote +
On June 23 2013 06:24 marvellosity wrote:
On June 23 2013 06:21 Hapahauli wrote:
Marv, where do you stand in all of the consolidation talks btw? Who do you want to lynch?


I dunno :/ Basically waiting for slOosh / Ange to report their findings. coag's just a crapshoot. Obvious sounded better but now he's disappeared again. I'm just browsing GK's filter since you mentioned him. What's the strongest point(s) against him would you say?


... to here in the end?

Show nested quote +
On June 23 2013 06:55 marvellosity wrote:
##Vote: goodkarma

Screw him being absent and screw his terrible case on Oats. I don't buy his explanation about the meta thing very much, because he *was* bringing him up on that basis and that basis was bad. I'm also still failing to understand why he was so shocked that Oats wanted to kill yamato for having backflipped reads after being suspicious of Hapa and DP. I was flicking through gk's filter in I Swear (I understand that he was mafia) but GK does seem to be pretty aware of Oats' meta in general. I simply don't get how he could be so suspicious of Oats at that stage for what Oats had done.


You were willing to lynch Sloosh or me in your first post. Later on, both of us had only posted a "I am back." post and you seem to have forgotten about wanting to lynch one of us. What is missing as well is commenting on goodkarma between the first post and your vote post. In your list post, you had three possible lynch candidates. Even if you take away Obvious after your conversation, you still had two other candidates. And you gave both of them a pretty easy way out because neither of us was really pressured when we came back. Instead you vote someone who you said could possibly be town as well.

If we assume that you had put Sloosh and me on the To Kill List because of inactivity, nothing really promised that we would be more active just by the "I am back post".

Combine the above with you trying to soft push for a goodkarma lynch instead of DarthPunk repeatedly (which goodkarma himself already pointed out as possibly scum motivated), I am very suspicious of you right now.


I don't really see the problem? Unless you currently have a scumread on yourself or on slOosh? By that point Obvious had already started making me re-evaluate my read on DP from leaning town-do not lynch to these are valid points-how comfortable am I lynching him. Although neither of you had posted much since you got back to the thread, what you'd posted seemed reasonable enough and that was borne out by how the time leading up to the lynch developed.

I don't really understand what I'm supposed to be answering for here. There were literally no strong wagons at all until late in the day, and your contention is that I was mafia just crossing my fingers and hoping we lynched a townie without doing anything about it? Are you serious?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
June 23 2013 15:59 GMT
#1320
On June 24 2013 00:54 ObviousOne wrote:
Holy shit Oats has one solitary scum game in his profile and it's Ego? I'm fucked.


He was scum in Dr Who
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
June 23 2013 16:11 GMT
#1324
On June 24 2013 01:01 slOosh wrote:
Hey marv, could you do me a favor and reread Hapa's filter concerning his stance on DP / GK? I want to see if you come to the same conclusion as I did.


Not really interested in doing that, I've got a pretty decent townread on Hapa.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
June 23 2013 16:12 GMT
#1326
My prevailing memory of Hapa as we came up to the lynch was that his thoughts mirrored mine very closely.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
June 23 2013 16:33 GMT
#1330
Why would I look? I know what happened, and it's already factored into my read on him. I'm not going to waste my time on something that's already happened that I already have a view on just to satisfy your anxiety, dear.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
June 23 2013 16:38 GMT
#1332
On June 24 2013 01:35 slOosh wrote:
>.> Please comment on the main content of my post rather than the little blurb.


There's not a great deal to say about it. I agree, objectively it doesn't look great. In an extremely similar fashion to how my actions around the lynch don't look great either. I can fully empathise with his stance. This 'objectively' not looking great stuff is, for me, easily trumped by the meta read and feels I have on Hapa, and his extremely clear interest in the game and in constructive dialogue with other players.

Further I'd note that at least a couple of your quotes deal with him saying that assuming DP was the secret voter was stupid, and he was right, DP wasn't the secret voter. I'm not sure what you're trying to make of that.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
June 23 2013 16:41 GMT
#1334
I also rather think you have some causality mixed up, or at least I read the post differently.

You said he was using the secret vote to lynch into the lurkers, I understood it that he wanted to lynch into the lurkers anyway, and he was stating that there was a decent chance the secret vote came from them.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
June 23 2013 16:45 GMT
#1336
See my post above for why I don't think Hapa was saying that.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
June 23 2013 16:47 GMT
#1338
On June 24 2013 01:46 slOosh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 24 2013 01:41 marvellosity wrote:
I also rather think you have some causality mixed up, or at least I read the post differently.

You said he was using the secret vote to lynch into the lurkers, I understood it that he wanted to lynch into the lurkers anyway, and he was stating that there was a decent chance the secret vote came from them.

Perhaps the order was flipped, but it should stand as a point against, not for, voting lurkers, based on his previous post no?


The two are distinct.

1) hapa wants to lynch into lurkers

---

2) the secret vote could well have come from lurkers

---

1 isn't because of 2, 1 and 2 are just co-existing. I think you're reading WAY too much into what he said about his assumptions of where the secret vote came from.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
June 23 2013 16:49 GMT
#1339
Anyway we could back and forth on this until the cows come home, but it's probably easier if Hapa tells us what he meant My bet is that I understood it correctly, naturally ^^
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
June 23 2013 16:54 GMT
#1342
On June 24 2013 01:52 slOosh wrote:
You may very well be correct - if you think it's a null point, that's fine, not worth hashing out another page to clarify a small part of the larger case.

pg 57~60 when you can please!


I just browsed it and you're going to have to be very specific about what you're looking for. Maybe I'm confirmation biasing because I think Hapa looks pretty town, but Hapa comes out of that looking better than rayn does imo, and I believe I've stated similar already.

The main thing I took from that is him neglecting to name me in people who are hard to mislynch, when my ratio is better than his. Curses.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
June 23 2013 16:56 GMT
#1343
I'm going to say this right now.

The thing we must absolutely not do is let players like gk and ShiaoPi slink by through lynches as town wonderfully lynches into active players.

Any of you who played or watched Smurf, think about that game and why I'm saying this.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
June 23 2013 17:10 GMT
#1345
On June 24 2013 02:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:
marvellosity do you think my case on Hapa boiled down to him being asleep and him and yamato both being scum and nothing more when you read it?


The three main points as I see them are

1) his suspicions on you are dodgy (which I agreed with at the time)
2) he was taking yamato's answers at face-value and accepting them
3) he wasn't being town-leadery
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
June 23 2013 17:24 GMT
#1347
On June 24 2013 02:17 raynpelikoneet wrote:
And 4) He suddenly went off from questioning GK, his top scumread and focused on completely different things.

Now, how does Hapa's answers to me last night make sense again?


Shrug, he wasn't being 100% reasonable but to be honest neither were you. The dialogue was all kinda useless.

If you're interested in some supplementary reading, go check out Palmar's smurf game from last autumn. Hapa was playing under the smurf Douglas Quaid and was at various points not particularly reasonable to suspicions directed at him. The way I read the exchanges with you is that he felt your suspicions on him weren't justified and he was just shutting them down arrogantly.

The issue with this is that it doesn't really help the person with the scumread on him stop having a scumread on him (you can see that in the game I referenced too), but on the other hand in the situation I think that Hapa is town, I can understand him doing that.

In all honesty I'd much rather Hapa talked about this with you rather than me talking about this with you, because this is only my interpretation. If you / others in the thread perceive how he dealt with your case as a problem, then he needs to deal with it himself.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
June 23 2013 20:26 GMT
#1391
On June 24 2013 04:24 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Marv

Can you explain your reads on sloOsh (seemingly null) and Coag (strong town) respectively?

I have sloOsh at very strong town given how much sense he's making. Also regardless of GK's allignment, he was the hammer vote on the Godfather, which makes me incredibly skeptical of any sort of suspicion on him.

As for Coag, I'm not sure what his behavioral tells are, but his vote on DP actually isn't that important. It wasn't made in the last minute scramble, and almost seemed like a throwaway vote made in the middle of D1 when DP had virtually no chance of getting lynched.


coag actually voting for mafia is one of the strongest tells you're going to get out of him probably. And he still seems more interested than I think he would be as mafia.

And yes, I already conceded slOosh should have been greener than I put him.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
Prev 1 7 8 9 10 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 5h 52m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft571
NeuroSwarm 125
Nina 93
ProTech60
StarCraft: Brood War
sSak 164
Bale 84
Icarus 9
Dota 2
LuMiX0
League of Legends
JimRising 631
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K815
semphis_39
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King100
Other Games
summit1g9315
shahzam855
C9.Mang0489
Maynarde126
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2307
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta52
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Rush1413
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5h 52m
Afreeca Starleague
5h 52m
Soulkey vs Barracks
EffOrt vs Rush
Monday Night Weeklies
11h 52m
Afreeca Starleague
1d 5h
BeSt vs Alone
Queen vs Bisu
The PondCast
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Cure vs SHIN
Reynor vs Zoun
RSL Revival
4 days
Classic vs TriGGeR
ByuN vs Maru
Online Event
4 days
BSL Team Wars
4 days
Team Bonyth vs Team Dewalt
BSL Team Wars
4 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
5 days
Maestros of the Game
5 days
Cosmonarchy
5 days
Bonyth vs Dewalt
[BSL 2025] Weekly
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Maestros of the Game
6 days
BSL Team Wars
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Copa Latinoamericana 4
SEL Season 2 Championship
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21: BSL Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1

Upcoming

2025 Chongqing Offline CUP
BSL Polish World Championship 2025
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
EC S1
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.