Catch 22 Mafia - Page 107

On June 29 2013 12:00 Adam4167 wrote:
Your reads have to be fluid and change in light of what is going on!

Deciding reads on D1 and then lynching into them regardless of any new developments in the thread is just stubborn and shortsighted. It relies entirely on your early game being so exceptional that you can bust the entire scum team from a single flip. I can count the number of times I've seen that happen on one hand and I've been here a damn long time! We've done this exact dance before in Duel, except this time its Oats instead of Sylencia.

On June 29 2013 23:35 slOosh wrote:

Like this is very hypocritical.

What is the most recent thing to happen in thread? GK flipped town. Ok, so we know that the very close D1 DP-GK lynch was between scum and town. Who is the first person that Adam goes after? OO, who was one of the main components of DP.


Oats I need your reviewed read of Adam, or whoever you want to lynch tomorrow.

On June 30 2013 00:28 Adam4167 wrote:


How is that hypocritical. My reads have changed and that evolution process is present in my filter.

With the information that GK was town, and Oats is someone I now have a solid meta read on, I turn and look at everyone else in the game. Because clearly things are not as simple as they seem.

OO cites my lack of confidence in scum reads as a reason why i'm scum. Here's a better explanation: I'm town and all the people I was looking at were town! we've flipped 2/3 of them and they've both been damn town. GEE, no wonder I wasn't confident about finding scum in there.

What is your aversion to me pressing OO? If i'm wrong then his towniness will shine through and ill move along.

On June 28 2013 13:32 slOosh wrote:
OO was one of DP's main lynches of choice D1. Both DP and rayn were willing to park their votes there (and they eventually did). OO was also the main pusher of the DP wagon. Refer to p 38.

p 39~40 show rayn trying to push yamato or OO.

yamato helped out with the lynch (3rd party, no reason why he wouldn't be playing roughly town)

Hapa comes in pg 42 and opposes DP lynch. Hapa is a vocal town player with strong thread presence.
marv comes in a bit later, stuff happens. Discussion moves away from DP.

OO comes back in pg 47 and pushes DP more. Ange and I hop in around here.

pg 48 marv votes GK. Hapa joins next page. They push for GK. They (marv mostly) push for it.
OO at this point has a reasonable out:

And yet he keeps his vote on. Kills DP over GK, which we discussed isn't something we can see scum doing. The only place that it becomes even remotely feasible is if GK was also scum. So the order should be GK first, then OO if GK flips scum and game isn't over.

I don't think there are 4 scum.

Ex-P.F.C. Wintergreen was a snide little punk who enjoyed working at cross-purposes. Each time he went AWOL, he was caught and sentenced to dig and fill up holes six feet deep, wide and long for a specified length of time. Each time he finished his sentence, he went AWOL again. Ex-P.F.C. Wintergreen accepted his role of digging and filling up holes with all the uncomplaining dedication of a true patriot.

'Wintergreen is probably the most influential man in the whole theater of operations. He's not only a mail clerk, but he has access to a mimeograph machine. But he won't help anybody. That's one of the reasons he'll go far.'

That's about the most bias analysis I've ever seen.

Its filled with complete conjecture and speculation. The only concrete thing you have in there is that I had no confidence in my reads, which is something I freely admitted. That does not make me scum in any way, shape or form.

On June 28 2013 12:56 slOosh wrote:
Dude, morale is a huge part of the game. Maybe it's your personality, maybe it's because you replaced in, maybe it's because you are on the chopping block, and maybe it's the vice versa for the rest of the crew, but being lazy doesn't necessitate scum.

And lynching based off activity levels is foolish. And lynching based of arbitrary levels of effort is also foolish.

Since when does something like motivation trump reason? I bet you, if you asked all the players after D2 that if you could choose to win or lose the game by simultaneously lynching into Hapa / Adam / Oats / GK, every single person would have taken that deal. And I bet if you ask each person that same question now, they would still take it.

What's more to give? What's more to do? It's all said and done. If you want to off GK first, honestly, I'm not that adverse to it.

On June 30 2013 13:47 Adam4167 wrote:
Oats, I still have no interest in lynching you. The fact that you're paranoid that I'm going to come after you is disappointing, but not unexpected.

If you guys think that lynching the person that has gone against thread sentiment since the moment he got into the game is a good idea, then you're either scum or stupid. You can check your role PM to find out which. While everyone else was content sitting back doing absolutely nothing, I was still working to solve this game.

I can only conclude that there is some kind of 2nd family or 3rd party at work here to explain why OO and DP went at each other so hard, yet OO still acts scummy as fuck.

##Vote: ObviousOne

Whatever, I am tired of talking to stupid.

See yall in the post game.

On July 01 2013 01:31 slOosh wrote:
Show me

On June 25 2013 17:40 Adam4167 wrote:
Sloosh, here is my solidified post as to why I think Oats is scum. First, look at Oats attitude towards the GK ragequit post.

He goes from:



I don't think its alignment indicative. Add in casting suspicion onto Hapa for a legitimate unvote and also apparently knowing that GK gave up 'as town'. To:



A SCUMCLAIM. In 10 minutes. His justification is:



I don't think a townie would ragequit in a way that makes himself look this townie, therefore its a scumclaim. Read that again if you have to. I do not buy this explanation one bit.


Look at his attitude towards me. He has been hammering me since I got in here, and utterly refuses to listen to anything I put forward about why I am not scum, nor does he listen to why other people think I might be town. I gave a legitimate response for why I was not playing up to my Duel mafia standards, for which he had no rebuttal. He then uses the same argument again as a reason I am scum when discussing with OO. This kind of blatant disregard for anything coming out of your targets mouth is scummy. You know they're making a point that you cant argue, but you keep harping on it anyway. The one time he shows some form of insecurity in his read towards me? The post he votes me in. That is scummy. If you're sure I'm scum, as he damn well appears to be, drop your vote, call me scum and start convincing everyone else of your viewpoint. Instead, its this:



"Last time I tunneled someone to death against what everyone was saying they flipped town. Is that happening again?"

This attitude does not gel with voting someone. He's apparently reconsidering yet voting to kill me in the same post. Inconsistent. Scummy.


I already went over this before but ill go over it again. I called him out for not having a vote for me. He felt insecure and the need to correct that perceived wrong so he slapped his vote down as soon as he could. One minute later, he's saying "Votes dont matter man", so why did he vote in the first place if they don't matter! He realized he made a mistake and tried to downplay it. If he felt votes didn't matter, he would have responded to my first post with "it doesn't matter now, ill vote you later in the day after the discussion is over", but that isn't what happened.

On June 25 2013 11:18 Hapahauli wrote:
No Oats isn't scum.

This is so absurdly inconsistent and spazzy that it has to be town.

Going to look through Shiao/Adam one more time.

On June 25 2013 11:13 slOosh wrote:

Could you rephrase this sentence please Oats? I don't understand.

Right now I'm still finding myself siding with Oats over Adam. Oats is right in that the things that Adam are bringing up aren't that substantive. The only thing against Oats is this GK thing, but I can guess a town motivation which would fit with Oats, so just waiting for him to say it I guess.

In anycase I have to bounce for now.

On June 24 2013 08:51 Coagulation wrote:
yep oats is town. this isnt new.

lets talk about coraz.

On June 26 2013 11:21 Adam4167 wrote:
Piles and piles of WIFOM.

Alright. This is getting us absolutely nowhere. I propose a deal to you. We both came to the same (correct!) conclusion on ShiaoPi. We take one day of the next cycle where we do not attack each other. We go through everyone else in the game and try to come up with SOMETHING that isn't both of us slinging shit at each other.

If after that day we still have nothing, we happily go back to voting each other and then town can flip one of us. Deal?

On June 26 2013 12:31 Adam4167 wrote:


My thoughts exactly. This conversation is actually flowing quite naturally.

So then I consider maybe a traitor that inadvertently bussed DP on D1 without knowing it. But does a roleblocking traitor even make sense?! Someone roleblocked Cora and they're not claiming it.

Something hinkey is happening in this game, I felt it on D2 when Shiao and GK both looked town and im getting it again now.

On June 27 2013 09:16 cDgCorazon wrote:
##Vote: Oatsmaster

We need to lynch one of my targets now.

On June 27 2013 12:12 slOosh wrote:








Jumping around with no consistency, dropping all prior scumreads to pick up new ones with no reasoning, basically going with anyone who might be lynched.

##Vote: Oatsmaster

Adam if you have specific questions, feel free to pick at my brain.

On June 28 2013 02:31 goodkarma wrote:
Before you go "I don't want this guy at LYLO," maybe you should visualize how the rest of the game might transpire first? Like who are you going to lynch and when? Hapa was discussing coming up with a plan (if I recall correctly anyway... filter-diving too much effort.). Maybe that's what scum feared most?

In any case it makes the game much easier if truly scumteam didn't bus day one. That means you lynch Adam, Oats, and me in whatever order you want and you win. I'm still inclined to run with this scenario for the time being though idk maybe it's wrong. Of those the guy who probably would be most likely to not concede in a lost scumgame would be Oats.

##Vote: Oats

On June 27 2013 14:55 Adam4167 wrote:
Cora, I'm pretty sure oats is town.

I need you to keep an open mind today because I've just come across something very important.

On June 27 2013 15:12 Adam4167 wrote:
I'm going to be honest here, as much as I may not gel with Oats playstyle, the discussion that the 3 of us were having yesterday would be very hard to fake as scum. It was freeflowing, and neither of them felt on edge or like they were withholding anything.

I don't think hes it.

On June 28 2013 10:12 Oatsmaster wrote:
Who I want at Lylo?
Me
Adam
Coag
Then I lynch adam for the win.

You see, this is kinda useless.

On June 25 2013 09:53 goodkarma wrote:


Kinda a pain, as that means between Hapa, Oats, Adam, Shao, you need to determine one you absolutely believe to be townie in determining the last scum. Sadly, I would say Adam is someone I like more than the other three right now.

On June 24 2013 15:24 Adam4167 wrote:
Mhmm, this is exactly what I was afraid of.

I do not think a scum ShiaoPi would be giving me a town read of right here. Nor was I expecting GK to do it when he did, if he were actually scum.

Something fucking fishy going on this game.

On June 25 2013 13:36 Adam4167 wrote:
I find ShiaoPi to be more likely town for two reasons:

His interactions with Rayn and his posting on D2.

Rayn shoots down ShiaoPi's case against GK, pretty handily dismisses it because it is poorly applied meta:

.

I don't think this is scum v scum talk. If it were, shutting down his case effectively forces him to go and jump on another bandwagon, increasing the chances he's going to draw attention to himself. Why would you bother? this case may have taken off, it almost did. GK almost died D1.


On D2, ShiaoPi comes in less confident in his read on GK:





Even so far as to say he uses a townie mentality. Put yourself in his position here. There's probably two other viable lynches today other than himself. GK and Me. Oats hes already called town previously. I don't think scum are going to come back into the thread, call their main tunnel all game probably town, then look at the next obvious target (me) and say that he's giving off town vibes. It just doesn't leave you any options.
He freely admits that this doesn't leave him any solid targets, agreeing with my 'being lostness'. What is his endgame with this strategy if he's scum? He's just going to call everyone town and hope they forget about him? We're all probably getting lynched at some point, its just a matter of what order, as GK has pointed out.

His willingness to reexamine Sloosh and OO is townie thoroughness/paranoia after he concludes i'm possibly town and he doesn't like any of the options in this group. As was his paranoia towards hapa.

I think what happened here was both GK and ShiaoPi came into this game with their previous scum adventures fresh on their minds, and got a case of confirmation bias on each other and went tunneling. I did the exact same thing with Cyber_Cheese in Mafia L after our first scum game.

I do not think he is scum.

On June 26 2013 05:07 Hapahauli wrote:
##Vote ShiaoPi

Last scum...
I don't think it's Oats. It's definitely not GK.

It might be Adam, but his posting just sounds so terrible in his scum-games, and he seems interested in figuring out the game right now. Even if he's barking up the wrong tree with Oats, his suspicions are basically what happens when someone plays with Oats the first time.

I think it's Shiao. His recent push on GK (in spite of the towniest martyr ever) is troublesome. Also his transition from "fuck me I'm lost I guess I'll vote GK cause he's my only possible lead" to -----> OMG GK claimed JK he scumscum doesn't strike me as organic.

On June 26 2013 05:14 ObviousOne wrote:
##vote ShiaoPi

Coag, lend me your vote. I know you be readin'.

On June 26 2013 07:37 slOosh wrote:
Bleh, I can't do it. Nothing is satisfying in my head. Going with a gut call, not sure what to expect:

##Vote: ShiaoPi

On June 28 2013 12:56 slOosh wrote:
Dude, morale is a huge part of the game. Maybe it's your personality, maybe it's because you replaced in, maybe it's because you are on the chopping block, and maybe it's the vice versa for the rest of the crew, but being lazy doesn't necessitate scum.

And lynching based off activity levels is foolish. And lynching based of arbitrary levels of effort is also foolish.

Since when does something like motivation trump reason? I bet you, if you asked all the players after D2 that if you could choose to win or lose the game by simultaneously lynching into Hapa / Adam / Oats / GK, every single person would have taken that deal. And I bet if you ask each person that same question now, they would still take it.

What's more to give? What's more to do? It's all said and done. If you want to off GK first, honestly, I'm not that adverse to it.

On June 28 2013 12:53 Adam4167 wrote:
OK, We've gone over that logical line a thousand times and it keeps bringing us back to the same place. The place where our reads conflict with our logic.

If everyone on the apparent confirmed DP wagon is town, then use that 'confirmed' status instead of posting once a day! If everyone on there is town, theyll have nothing to hide about us poking around and asking questions.

Instead I am getting "NO YOUR GETTING LYNCHED SOON, STOP QUESTIONING THE RULING ELITE AND DIE QUIETLY"

Its bullshit.

On June 26 2013 11:58 Adam4167 wrote:
From a setup perspective, SK is extremely unlikely, as is two families of two. There just wouldn't be enough townies in the game with whats already been flipped. I think we keep it simple here and work with 1 scum remaining. Traitor is also a possibility as was earlier proposed.

On June 26 2013 12:43 Adam4167 wrote:
Well the obvious one to take off the table is OO, DP and Rayn both seemingly went to bed with their votes firmly parked on OO. I don't think they bussed their roleblocker on D1.