EPT[N] Sicilian Mafia Style - Page 15
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
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FirmTofu
United States1956 Posts
On July 16 2013 15:36 VisceraEyes wrote: ##Vote: DocHelvetica Every post he makes (and he's made a full 12 of his allotted 20 posts at the time of writing) makes me vomit inside my mouth a little bit. I don't like anything he's doing. He's not pressuring anyone, he's wasting posts throwing shit at Vayne. I don't even know yet what I think about Vayne, but if the remaining 40% of his posts don't blow me out of the water, I want to kill Doc H today. As much as I dislike DrH, this post has absolutely no substance or reasoning. VE needs to explain his reads or he is as scummy as DrH, if not more scummy. On July 16 2013 17:16 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: I'm on my phone so I can't copy paste but a couple posts up this page FirmTofu reponds the correct way to DrH and VE responds to wrong way. Also yamato's last post was absolutely horrible. I will probably use both my masons D1 on people who I feel are town. I'm going to bed now. This is ridiculous. Why is yamato's last post horrible? I thought it was well reasoned and particularly useful in forming a read on DrH. Explain yourself. On July 16 2013 17:23 Oatsmaster wrote: FT's post is totally bullshit. FT says he isnt defending Vayne but slams DrH for the exact same thing he himself is doing.??? He seems overly concerned about people lying. Scumtell because no one intentionally lies and its easier to attack town on a supposed lie and not actual content. Also, he is saying that vayne and sloosh are saying similar things. They arent by far. Sloosh is saying dont use it if you dont know how to. Vayne is saying he WONT use it. Nope, totally different. One is intentionally playing badly(vayne), One is possibly bad advice but with limited masoning, Im inclined to agree with sloosh. I don't think you understood the purpose of my post. I wasn't defending Vanye. I wasn't "slamming" DrH. You are exaggerating my actions and making it sound as if I have DrH pegged as a confirmed scum read and am tunneling him at the time of writing that post. Please explain what it is that I am doing that DrH is also doing. I am pointing out inconsistencies in his behavior and he is defending slOosh and attacking Vayne. Our actions are not even remotely similar. Vayne and slOosh are saying very similar things but there is a subtle difference between their statements. Vayne is making a personal decision not to use PMs and slOosh is directing inexperienced players not to use PMs. While you may think Vayne's play is inferior, you cannot say he is intentionally playing badly. He could just as easily be town and think that PMs will screw up town more than help. That is a perfectly valid opinion for a town member to have. You may agree with slOosh and disagree with Vayne, but your agreement/disagreement tells you absolutely nothing about their alignment. Analyzing opinions is meaningless and that is exactly what you are doing. On July 16 2013 17:28 raynpelikoneet wrote: I think there is something you should all know. I am a pardoner. I tried to think how i could use my power in combination with PM's to it's full benefit and came into conclusion there is no way not to claim will help town. The pardoning can be done vai PM's to the hosts, i don't need to announce it in thread. There is nothing good coming out from me using it, only confusion and distraction, so i will not use my power ever. This makes me think scum have one too. rayn, can you please elaborate on what a pardoner is? I have no idea because I have never played with that role before. On July 16 2013 17:33 Malongo wrote: I cant believe I am the newbie here. ##Vote: Meapak_Ziphh I dont care if you go to bed, and your post was just too polarized for no reason. Another person who just pops in, votes with little to no justification, and leaves. This is getting tiresome. On July 16 2013 21:16 Oatsmaster wrote: wtf is this bullshit. Total fucking retardness. Malongo, Koshi and kholly, start playing the game. Kholly, why is DrH scum? Also there is a voting thread. Malongo, why is MZ being polarizing a scumtell? Koshi, why waste 5% of your limit on a useless post? Absolutely USELESS. Ok so scumteam is probably, VE, sloosh, FT and other dudes. Everyone else that has posted I think is town. Anyone that has strong disagreements for any of my reads, please explain why. You have not explained why anyone you listed is scum for you. You mentioned that, "FT's post is total bullshit", but that's about it. You even said that you agreed with slOosh's point about pms. How can you justify that scumteam considering I've had a row with slOosh already? It looks like you are just trying to accuse random people to establish some town cred. Some of your questions are hypocritical. You haven't really started playing the game and you waste plenty of posts being useless as well. On July 17 2013 00:54 slOosh wrote: I don't think they shouldn't form around one player, it's too easily countered and dangerous if they are scum. I was thinking wheels of, say three players, and then linking the wheels slowly. Still don't understand how you can build circles by masoning only scum reads though. What? I said if people are unsure, they should avoid it because it can cause more problems than be of benefit. How am I making a "concerted effort to discourage people from using PMs"? Show me where I said no one should mason. slOosh responded well to my question and I no longer wish to pursue him. He seems to speaking from opinion and his statements are not alignment indicative. On July 17 2013 03:27 gumshoe wrote: Drh pressured tofu, tofu responded, dry backed off tofu when he was satisfied with his answer. Regardless of what tofu did after these are the facts of drh's actions, drh could have easily left his accusation hanging in order not to look flip floppy. Instead he closed the matter for the moment. Doing so hurts his individual position but it is a boon for town because we're able to scratch off a pointless(from dh,s perspective) argument. This reads townie to me, does it mean he is 100 percent mega town? No of course not, but dropping the accusation seems silly for scum who want as many plot threads as possible And want to come off as strong. I actually see DrH's backing off as more of a scum move than a town one. Scum would be trying not to cause too much waves. They push people to appear townie, then back off if the pressure mounts to a considerable degree and they know they have no chance of winning a lynch on their target. I think this is exactly how DrH is playing the game right now. After having a bit of an argument with me, he decided that it would be difficult to get town to lynch me, so he backed off. Remember, in his pms to Oats he said "FirmTofu is confirmed scum". It sounds like he still wants me dead, but he is lying about how he feels about me so that I will stop pressuring him. I smell fear. I smell lies. I want blood. I want DrH to respond to all of my points against him now. He has been avoiding me for too long and my suspicion is starting to mount. | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38799 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
FT, here: I PM the hosts ##Pardon: Playername. If they have the most votes at the end of the day, the day ends in no-lynch instead of that players lynch. The power is one-shot. Also how did Sloosh answer your question? I still don't anything from him that says "people should not avoid to use their mason ability" as your original argument was. Also your points against DrH are dumb. DrH is there anything else you see Oats is scummy for? Have you played with him before? If you compare your logs with him and my logs with him, any contradictions? Or rather, can you just post the logs in thread so i can look at them aswell. Koshi do you still think i am scum? Why? Why not? | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
Chain of events: I pressure FirmTofu originally for his traitor talk and his defense/explanation was adequately town. I announce this to the town. After announcing it, FirmTofu attacks me for pressuring Vayne without also pressuring sloOsh. I explain why I didn't feel what sloOsh did was particularly scummy (I use the language "it's more townie than what you've been doing") he then claims that I have a strong town read on sloOsh. At this point I dropped the argument. People are going pretty far back in my conversations with FT, I'm scared of hitting post limit so it's kind of hard to keep the thread informed of my train of thought. My mind moves quickly but I can't really show that in the thread. Yamato/Oatsmaster (my current masonbuddies) would have to vouch for what I'm thinking since they have more immediate access. If I'm going to become a central part of the lynch discussion, people should at least mason me more. Ah, can someone please give me 5 posts? This is going to be really hard for me. It was your post against sloOsh I think (?) that ultimately made me flip back into thinking you were scum. I talked to Oatsmaster about this: DrH: FirmTofu is in a position where he has a direct argument opportunity with me but wants to misdirect attention onto lurkers instead that's bad if he doesn't respond to what I said about sloOsh because somehow kushm4sta is more interesting then I'm absolutely voting for him. You DID respond to what I said about sloOsh, actually quite shortly after I told Oatsmaster how I feel (and he probed me to figure out what I meant first). Oatsmaster says: Explain the Direct argument opportunity, im not seeing that. DrH says: I called him out for misrepresenting sloOsh as a means to attack me AND defend Vayne and in the next post he ignores that and instead talks about lurkers. I think a townies reaction to my post would be defensive or at least expository but he doesn't argue with me OR explain what he was thinking, he just changes the subject. Oatsmaster says: Ok i agree about the firm tofu thing. like posting for the sake of posting and as scum, its hard to have a conversation with someone. DrH says: read his defense he said i have a STRONG townread on sloosh which is not what i said, i was only pointing out how he misrepresented what sloosh was saying. saying that something is non-scummy from a player is not laying out a strong townread. he's panicking. secondly, the fact that he misrepresented sloosh so brashly, it wasn't a misunderstanding he said that sloosh was making a strong effort to stop people from PMing which is ridiculous because in sloOsh's post he's actually encouraging people to PM, just encouraging people to do it in the way he feels is constructive Oatsmaster says: I do think that FT might be scum for the lying bit, no one in mafia intentionally lies and its a good way to get pressure on a townie that is a bit careless. Its a really agressive post by FT that is blatantly incorrect. Is it townie incorrect or scum being bad. I dunno man. I also wanted to call attention to a similar bit of exaggeration by FirmTofu which was calling sloOsh's advice a "consolidated effort" to STOP pming. That's a huge stretch. Ultimately people are going to do what they want to do, but I feel like sloOsh is saying "don't just waste your mason power if you don't know what you're doing". PMs can be a bit risky, so I can actually see where he is coming from even if I disagree in theory? It's hardly a consolidated effort and I hardly ever said I have a strong townread on him either. In fact, I don't have any read on sloOsh cause I haven't been focused on him this game. He hasn't jumped out and grabbed my attention. I actually see DrH's backing off as more of a scum move than a town one. Scum would be trying not to cause too much waves. They push people to appear townie, then back off if the pressure mounts to a considerable degree and they know they have no chance of winning a lynch on their target. What pressure? I got Oats to agree with me in like five seconds. Here's what happened: I think this guy is probably scum but I'm going to back away from the thread to avoid hitting post limit, see what happens the rest of the day and if he continues to be the scummiest in the thread then I'll push him. Because I was just avoiding post limit, I was sharing my thoughts with Oats who then shared them with Rayne who then posted them in the thread which then led people to think that I'm somehow a liar/wishy washy when in reality this is just a game where I can't afford to pop in and talk literally every time a thought crosses my brain. 20 posts a day. DESPITE THIS - I think it's interesting that you chose to attack me after I defended you and the way you did is making me lean that you are town and this is just a bad misunderstanding, actually. Or I did. But your phrasing is odd in your latest post. It makes it seem like the fact that I backed off AT ALL is scummy to you. Why? Should you always tunnel the first person you vote for 100% of the time? Should you ignore a persons defense under every circumstance? If FT Is town, he knows he is town and he perceives his posts likely to be very townie. If FT defends himself from Player X who then says "ah, the way you defended yourself indicates you're town" why would FT then turn around to say "How suspicious that you think I'm town, you must be scum". If FT truly was town, wouldn't he accept that argument? If Player X (Me in this case) decides his defense is town-indicative (assuming FT is town) then player x is CORRECT and FT should feel as though his argument/defense was a success. Implying that it is scummy to defend you implies INHERENT GUILT. Let me reference my argument against Promethelax in LX which was almost proof that he was scum: Attacking his defender is basically impossible logic for town. If prom was town then jj would have been correct, there would be nothing to criticize. If FT is town then I was CORRECT to back off of him considering he put in the effort to defend himself, there can't possibly be anything scummy about that INHERENTLY but in his latest post he's not even referencing the context of my change of heart he's calling it scummy IN and OF itself. ^ a more succinct way of putting it. I'll wait for FT's explanation of this, because there is another aspect to his attack on me that differs from what Promethelax did although it's getting closer and closer to Prom's confirmed scum arguments so I'll just have to wait. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
sooooooo and FT responding to my post immediately after I explain to Oatsmaster why it's suspicious, like 5 minutes or so. conspiracy theory, but hey. someone donate me 5 posts | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
On July 17 2013 07:36 VisceraEyes wrote: I expect more of Wiggles than you (and most in this game.) No offense brah. I never know what to say to people thinking my suspicions are "forced". In what way? Like "Hmmm how can I say I'm suspicious of Wiggles Hmmmmmm...maybe this and this? Ugh I don't know but I just have to say I'm suspicious of Wiggles for X reason"? Because if that's the case, what do you think I have to gain by saying I'm suspicious of Wiggles if I'm scum? Or do you think I just needed to round out my list to include 3 players or something? What exactly are you accusing me of SnB? (6/20) im saying that it looks like you chose wiggles as someone to be suspicious of and then added reasons later, because i dont think given his single post and the reasons you mention it would genuinely make you think he is scum. im saying u scum brah. @DrH if you get a chance can you tell me why im on your scum list? also i want to renew my poke on VA. I'm very much unsatisfied with the extent to which he's talked about setup and policy and not the more important things like reads and interactions. So VA A CHALLENGE can you write a case for why VE is either town or scum? Or replace VE with someone else if you want to but I want you to put some more reasoning into the thread. | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
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FirmTofu
United States1956 Posts
On July 17 2013 08:32 DoctorHelvetica wrote: DESPITE THIS - I think it's interesting that you chose to attack me after I defended you and the way you did is making me lean that you are town and this is just a bad misunderstanding, actually. Or I did. But your phrasing is odd in your latest post. It makes it seem like the fact that I backed off AT ALL is scummy to you. Why? Should you always tunnel the first person you vote for 100% of the time? Should you ignore a persons defense under every circumstance? If FT Is town, he knows he is town and he perceives his posts likely to be very townie. If FT defends himself from Player X who then says "ah, the way you defended yourself indicates you're town" why would FT then turn around to say "How suspicious that you think I'm town, you must be scum". If FT truly was town, wouldn't he accept that argument? If Player X (Me in this case) decides his defense is town-indicative (assuming FT is town) then player x is CORRECT and FT should feel as though his argument/defense was a success. Implying that it is scummy to defend you implies INHERENT GUILT. If FT is town then I was CORRECT to back off of him considering he put in the effort to defend himself, there can't possibly be anything scummy about that INHERENTLY but in his latest post he's not even referencing the context of my change of heart he's calling it scummy IN and OF itself. ^ a more succinct way of putting it. I'll wait for FT's explanation of this, because there is another aspect to his attack on me that differs from what Promethelax did although it's getting closer and closer to Prom's confirmed scum arguments so I'll just have to wait. I wasn't accusing you because you were "defending" me. I was accusing you because I found you scummy. I'm sure you would expect me to back off because you backed off, but I didn't because I still had quite a few problems with your posts. This has absolutely nothing to do with inherent guilt. If you still think that, just read my reasons for WHY I'm accusing you and see if they make any sense from a town perspective. Ask yourself whether a townie who believed those points would simply back off just because the person he was accusing stopped accusing him. You still haven't addressed any of the posts where I ask you if you lied. You ignore a great number of my posts indicating you are uncomfortable with talking about them. I suspect that you DID lie, but I remain unsure as to whether you lied as scum or lied as town. I'm running out of posts, so I don't want to waste too many on a back-and-forth between DrH and myself. DrH, did you or did you not lie? If you did lie, explain why. If you didn't lie, explain why you took this long to respond about the lies. Someone who was innocent would not have avoided the question for this long. What is your view on the lying meta as town? Do you think we should policy lynch liars as town? Your answers to this post will determine whether or not my vote stays on you. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
(7/15) /salute | ||
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Malongo
Chile3472 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
Did you or did you not read them before posting after that? If you did not, why? | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
^ Filter from Nuclear Winter where FirmTofu is town. Let me demonstrate marked differences. On July 08 2013 04:54 FirmTofu wrote: Alright, I've got plenty of time now and I've finally got my computer back. I have skimmed through the thread and I'd just like to point out a few things before posting my mega post(tm). Two main people have been targeted as lynches today. Johnnywup and rayn both look like easy scum redirects. In other words, relatively weak town members that would be easy to lynch if push comes to shove. I think you should be watching any and all players on those respective wagons and see how their votes change over the course of the thread. I'm having trouble understanding this Chezinu guy. Apparently, he's a troll? I'm unfamiliar with his persona so could anyone explain? I've still gotta read his claim in detail so I'll post more about that later. In Nuclear Winter FirmTofu is immediately concerned with reads on players and is working on something constructive. His megapost is also completely concerned with reads: On July 08 2013 16:40 FirmTofu wrote: Sorry I took so long. I got burned out from reading the thread and having to update my reads based on incoming information so I took a long break from the thread. I've completed nearly all my player profiles and am ready to give geript my top three scumreads. VayneAuthority: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=418049¤tpage=17#329 Unjustified reason to vote someone. It could be a poke, but it remains unclear. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=418049¤tpage=25#495 Advocates lynching for information. Acknowledges that he could flip town. A town would push their lynch under the assumption that they were scum. Starting to focus on what will happen post-flip indicating that he doesn't want to take the heat on a town flip. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=418049¤tpage=28#554 Highlighting play that strikes him as PR. Why would town do this? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=418049¤tpage=29#568 Accuses Caucasian, who seems like an easy target considering he only has one post and was drunk. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=418049¤tpage=34#669 Adds Dandel to the list of lynch targets. WaveOfShadow: His fluff extends a bit too far into the day. Most of his posts are non-contributing/restating what has already been said. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=418049¤tpage=19#375 Refers to "town players" as an entity that he is not a part of. Very scummy. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=418049¤tpage=20#383 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=418049¤tpage=20#392 Voices his opinion of Johnny based on a misinterpretation of his post, then waits for someone else to vote him before hopping on the wagon. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=418049¤tpage=24#464 Defensive post. Why is he so worried about a wagon on him if the people voting him have a bad case against him? He should be pursuing his reads, not wasting time defending himself from a "weak" wagon. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=418049¤tpage=25#482 Seems to understand scum methodology and could be trying to WIFOM us with his play. I haven't read many of his newer posts, so I will update my read of him as I continue reading. Nirvana.Gabo: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=418049¤tpage=29#566 Idiotic reason to vote Onegu. Looking for reasons to vote, instead of looking for actual scumslips. Could be a scumbuddy defense of a teammate in Chez. We will need to see the flip to know for sure. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=418049¤tpage=29#576 Mistaking newbieness for scum play. Seems to be a deliberate ploy to accuse Onegu of something that isn't there. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=418049¤tpage=31#619 Has a town read on Ace. Convenient. Reiterating what many others have already stated. I would like to pursue either a Vayne or Nirvana lynch, but would be willing to defer to a lynch of WoS. First, I need to read further into the thread to see whether he has redeemed himself or not. For now, Vote ##: VayneAuthority He breaks down his arguments unemotionally and the argument is composed almost entirely of quotes/support. Let's contrast this with his play in this game: On July 16 2013 13:05 FirmTofu wrote: FirmTofu's MegaKickstarting Post: Hey y'all! I know I've been waiting for this game for a long time and I'm sure you all have as well. This game is somewhat non-standard, so there are a few things I'd like to address before we get started. Because this setup is closed, we have to make sure we do not make any unnecessary assumptions that center around speculation about the roles. Speculation is largely a waste of time given the amount of information provided in the OP, so we should stick to the basics. Additionally, we definitely should not be directing blue roles that we aren't even sure exist. Big Plays: If you think of some mastermind play that you think will fool mafia and confuse them, please don't use it. As brilliant as your plan may be, a closed setup has too many variables to account for and your plan could potentially confuse the town more than the mafia. Lying: If you are town, DO NOT lie. If all of town follows this rule, we can separate town and mafia into two distinct categories, liars and non-liars, respectively. We can lynch liars without fear of them flipping town AS LONG AS every town member strictly adheres to this rule. The Traitor: 5 mafia, 1 traitor. Anyone up for some math? 5/24=0.20833333333 (5+1)/24=0.25 The one traitor adds about 4% to the strength of the team. As the game progresses, the denominator gets lower. Assuming we don't get insanely lucky, the percentage of mafia will increase over time. The influence of the traitor will start to compound and he will become a greater threat. We obviously need to keep an eye out for the traitor, but specifically hunting for him in the early days will be a waste of resources, in my opinion. How to catch the traitor! The traitor might get antsy and try to drop a few hints for mafia to pick up (to try and join them). We need to stay vigilant to find these subtle hints and make sure we call them out as soon as we see them. PMs: I'm thinking that we should choose our best town reads as PM targets. I'm somewhat unfamiliar with this mechanic, so if a more experienced player can give his thoughts about it, that would be great. This goes without saying, but remember to choose your pm targets wisely! This means NOT wasting both of your choices on Day 1 based on weak reads. Post Count Limit: We have a moderately strict 20 post limit during day. This means absolutely NO one-liner posts. Try to make longer posts that include multiple quotes. Respond to multiple points simultaneously. If you want to give your reads, do it all in one post. We need people to also save posts to ensure they can respond to accusations should they be accused. Plan ahead. Most of this stuff should be obvious, so I'm not going to beat a dead horse. Alright, that's all I've got for now. Let's have a good, clean game. GL HF! MegaPost - all fluff - no substance. The attitude is different, he's very flowery and fluffy whereas in Nuclear Winter he more or less gets to the point in every post. Firm Tofu's longest posts in this game so far have been defenses of himself. In Nuclear Winter he addresses other issues/questions towards him quickly and shortly and uses his longest posts devoted almost entirely to his cases against scumreads. This is actually really good town play. On July 16 2013 14:15 FirmTofu wrote: I forgot to finish answering DrH. I'm a bit of a statistics buff, so in a way, yes. I don't see why drawing attention to the role would make me mafia/traitor. If anything, scum would be trying to draw attention away from these types of roles. You make a valid point, but there is a flaw in this reasoning. As I mentioned in my response to DrH, scum would be trying to avoid drawing attention to their own roles. There is a guilt factor that many scum fall victim to. People who are uncomfortable with lying try to avoid any discussion that could potentially link them to their role. This is my why scum generally try to avoid talking to their teammates in thread and generally avoid talking about their roles. I'm hoping we can move away from this speculative discussion and pursue something more meaningful and concrete. The amount of words he uses to clear up suspicion regarding HIMSELF versus the amount of words in Nuclear Winter is distressing. In Nuclear Winter he is almost completely unconcerned with everything but moving on to a scum lynch. When he is asked a question he gets tot he point as quickly as possible or seemingly ignores it to focus on his lynch. In his case against me here: On July 17 2013 07:52 FirmTofu wrote: I'm going to address a few posts that were made after my departure from the thread yesterday. As much as I dislike DrH, this post has absolutely no substance or reasoning. VE needs to explain his reads or he is as scummy as DrH, if not more scummy. This is ridiculous. Why is yamato's last post horrible? I thought it was well reasoned and particularly useful in forming a read on DrH. Explain yourself. I don't think you understood the purpose of my post. I wasn't defending Vanye. I wasn't "slamming" DrH. You are exaggerating my actions and making it sound as if I have DrH pegged as a confirmed scum read and am tunneling him at the time of writing that post. Please explain what it is that I am doing that DrH is also doing. I am pointing out inconsistencies in his behavior and he is defending slOosh and attacking Vayne. Our actions are not even remotely similar. Vayne and slOosh are saying very similar things but there is a subtle difference between their statements. Vayne is making a personal decision not to use PMs and slOosh is directing inexperienced players not to use PMs. While you may think Vayne's play is inferior, you cannot say he is intentionally playing badly. He could just as easily be town and think that PMs will screw up town more than help. That is a perfectly valid opinion for a town member to have. You may agree with slOosh and disagree with Vayne, but your agreement/disagreement tells you absolutely nothing about their alignment. Analyzing opinions is meaningless and that is exactly what you are doing. rayn, can you please elaborate on what a pardoner is? I have no idea because I have never played with that role before. Another person who just pops in, votes with little to no justification, and leaves. This is getting tiresome. You have not explained why anyone you listed is scum for you. You mentioned that, "FT's post is total bullshit", but that's about it. You even said that you agreed with slOosh's point about pms. How can you justify that scumteam considering I've had a row with slOosh already? It looks like you are just trying to accuse random people to establish some town cred. Some of your questions are hypocritical. You haven't really started playing the game and you waste plenty of posts being useless as well. slOosh responded well to my question and I no longer wish to pursue him. He seems to speaking from opinion and his statements are not alignment indicative. I actually see DrH's backing off as more of a scum move than a town one. Scum would be trying not to cause too much waves. They push people to appear townie, then back off if the pressure mounts to a considerable degree and they know they have no chance of winning a lynch on their target. I think this is exactly how DrH is playing the game right now. After having a bit of an argument with me, he decided that it would be difficult to get town to lynch me, so he backed off. Remember, in his pms to Oats he said "FirmTofu is confirmed scum". It sounds like he still wants me dead, but he is lying about how he feels about me so that I will stop pressuring him. I smell fear. I smell lies. I want blood. I want DrH to respond to all of my points against him now. He has been avoiding me for too long and my suspicion is starting to mount. Like 70% of this post isn't even about me and this is the best he can do? He's polluting his information and feels the need to be a part of irrelevant discussions, playing defensively, etc. yeah let's lynch him. And i just now realized you may have been asking me if I was lying about not having read sloOsh's post before I attacked Vayne and no I wasn't lying ?? Idk what you're looking for with that. | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
Can I get posts too? this is my 13th post. I am having trouble seeing the argument DrH is making for me being scum. Because I dont talk the same in PMs as in the thread? I have like 20 posts and I have an annoying tendency to waste posts because I need to post after stuff happens. Ok from what I can see, its that I think yamato's post is bad but I agree with the content. This makes me scum? No it doesnt. Dont be bad. Also I copied the same post about yamato to rayn from my conversation with DrH, I dont see the different reasons for thinking Yamato might be scum. Post a case on me DrH, please do. Rayn and DrH, can you expand the town reads on gumshoe? So guys VE is scum and you should be voting for him. His first post is totally fluff. And is constructed as being useful. Scum have hard time making first post cause it feels weird. This post feels weird. On July 16 2013 12:39 VisceraEyes wrote: Hi guys! I'm going to be keeping a running tally of my posts to try and remind myself that I can't spam in this game as I'm wont to do. Feel free to PM me though, because though the mods can remove my ability to spam the thread, they cannot remove my desire to allow my thoughts on players and their motives to freeflow...though with as many superior scumhunters as are in this game, I wouldn't be surprised or offended if you don't. Just throwing that out there. I will say that I think most players should hold back at least one of their mason choices for past D1. The threat of masoning scum is always there, plus if you just start masoning strong scumhunters you run the risk of them eating it N1. It's probably just best practice to mason people you trust, and though you might think that goes without saying people play this game in a really weird way sometimes. He then votes for DrH with horrible reasoning and then, he says it was a ploy. Nice backtracking there, making a story to cover up your really fucking bad post. I dont buy it. Especially cause he then calls out 3 people which seem to have little to none connection with his vote on DrH, especially Malango who hasnt even mentioned his name the whole game AFAIK. Its a cover up for lurker lynching. Scum VE loves to lynch Lurkers.. He then wastes a post calling out 3 out of like 7 lurkers in the game so far and it isnt even part of another post. He says he is suspicious of Wiggles for not really being useful, but is taking a wait and see approach, doing NOTHING to engage Wiggles or even try and start a conversation to determine his alignment. He also donates posts cause its a townie thing to do most of the time. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
Also yeah DrH, Oats is not scum, at least from what you called him out of. Also also, if some is willing to donate me posts i would be grateful, i'm running out of them soon, and i can't even fucking PM. I dunno about VE, his explanation on his DrH stuff seems fine to me. I still think Sloosh is useless and town!Sloosh is not useless. Nothing he has said can be considered scumhunting. Kholly, malongo, Koshi probably just bad. I would not vote for either of them for now. vayne town. DrH town. yamato leaning town on, would like him to post more. Hapa is a Q-mark, i don't follow his thought process. FT could go either way, i wanna see how he responds to me/DrH. Vivax is just meh.. I don't like "cryptic" posts, as i have limited time and i don't like to double-think what i am even reading. Who else.. I have nothing to say about Wiggles/Kush, MZ, blah, just pops out, calls yamato out and disappears. Could lynch him. SnB seems fine to me, layabout has posted right? Fuck this is retarded when there are no filters in OP. That's all. Could you add filters in OP??? | ||
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
when 20 posts is too many | ||
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Malongo
Chile3472 Posts
On July 17 2013 09:39 raynpelikoneet wrote: It is because he was eager to know my thoughts (he PM'd me many times saying TALK TO ME or something when i was @ work) and he also told me he would claim to me if i told him how my role worked. Why say that if scum are gonna PM.block me? It makes him a suspect. Also yeah DrH, Oats is not scum, at least from what you called him out of. Also also, if some is willing to donate me posts i would be grateful, i'm running out of them soon, and i can't even fucking PM. I dunno about VE, his explanation on his DrH stuff seems fine to me. I still think Sloosh is useless and town!Sloosh is not useless. Nothing he has said can be considered scumhunting. Kholly, malongo, Koshi probably just bad. I would not vote for either of them for now. vayne town. DrH town. yamato leaning town on, would like him to post more. Hapa is a Q-mark, i don't follow his thought process. FT could go either way, i wanna see how he responds to me/DrH. Vivax is just meh.. I don't like "cryptic" posts, as i have limited time and i don't like to double-think what i am even reading. Who else.. I have nothing to say about Wiggles/Kush, MZ, blah, just pops out, calls yamato out and disappears. Could lynch him. SnB seems fine to me, layabout has posted right? Fuck this is retarded when there are no filters in OP. That's all. Could you add filters in OP??? Look for my post on page 13 or just click: Filtered list | ||
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FirmTofu
United States1956 Posts
On July 17 2013 08:56 FirmTofu wrote: DrH, did you or did you not lie? If you did lie, explain why. If you didn't lie, explain why you took this long to respond about the lies. Someone who was innocent would not have avoided the question for this long. What is your view on the lying meta as town? Do you think we should policy lynch liars as town? Your answers to this post will determine whether or not my vote stays on you. On July 17 2013 08:59 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I backed off of you because the only reason I was suspicious of you to begin with was because of your post about the traitor. That is when I backed off. I became suspicious of you later because of your posts regarding sloOsh/other things (this was AFTER I had said your defense about the traitor talk was adequately town) but didn't talk about it in thread because I had already used half my posts. That's not lying. Alright. I think any rational townsperson can see how inadequate DrH's answer is. He didn't answer the majority of the questions. He uses vague terminology like, "other things" to describe why he is suspicious of me. He hasn't even addressed the actual lie(s) that I was talking about. If he wants a chance at redemption, he is going to answer these SPECIFIC questions. Stop avoiding them. 1) Why did you tell Oats, "FirmTofu is confirmed scum." when you backed off of me? We know that you had this conversation after you backed off, but before you started flinging shit at me. I want to know why. 2) Why did you pretend as if you didn't see slOosh's post and then backtrack and defend him as if he was 100% confirmed town? A townie in this position would not be so quick to deduce slOosh's alignment based on one post, so why did you feel the need to defend him so vehemently? On July 17 2013 09:11 raynpelikoneet wrote: Hey FirmTofu, i see a difference in your posting behaviour before and after i posted my logs. Did you or did you not read them before posting after that? If you did not, why? I did not read the logs yet. I am running under a few time constraints so I am trying to choose the posts I read wisely. If I were to read your logs, I would not be able to address DrH's. The logs were rather long, so I figured I would read them later. I am unsure as to what "difference in posting behavior" you speak of, please elaborate. On July 17 2013 09:15 DoctorHelvetica wrote: 100% meta argument citing differences in FirmTofu's townish behaviors in NWM as opposed to this game. I'm not even sure how to respond to this. A good bit of it is just bullshit. I'm not defending myself more than accusing others. That is absolutely false. Just take a leap through my filter to see how many posts focus on accusations and how many focus on defending myself. Even if I were defending myself more than accusing others, I don't see this as particularly alignment indicative. Then he says 70% of a post isn't even about DrH, so it somehow makes me scummy. I fail to see how that's even remotely true. I like to talk about EVERYONE in the game. It isn't scummy to address multiple people in the same post. If anyone takes this meta argument seriously, I will be forced to look into you. This is actually absolutely ridiculous. I will not respond to any additional arguments that center around meta because I am fundamentally against using it to divine alignments. Any good player should know that meta is subject to WIFOM and is nearly always meaningless. | ||
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