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Newbie Mini Mafia XLII - Page 83

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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fferyllt
Profile Joined April 2013
United States317 Posts
June 17 2013 02:08 GMT
#1641
Onegu did play this really well. Atmospheric noise was unkind to the scum team. Unless Firere is an experienced player, all the ringers were playing for town.
Onegu
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States9699 Posts
June 17 2013 03:08 GMT
#1642
Havent said it completely yet but thanks to the hosts, players and coaches, you did an amazing job and made enjoy myself a ton and lose alot of sleep.
Try TL Mafia!!!
Xzavier
Profile Joined January 2013
United States393 Posts
June 17 2013 03:11 GMT
#1643
On June 17 2013 12:08 Onegu wrote:
Havent said it completely yet but thanks to the hosts, players and coaches, you did an amazing job and made enjoy myself a ton and lose alot of sleep.


all the same <3

it gave me something to mull over while bagging groceries/doing carts for 8 hours straight!
Mafia :D
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
June 17 2013 10:47 GMT
#1644
On June 17 2013 09:45 Acrofales wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 17 2013 01:06 fferyllt wrote:
hedging vs waffling.

Hedging is taking an ambiguous stance on a player. "X looks scummy because reason, but I'm not sure yet." Or asking questions. "Do you think X looks scummy because reason?" rather than taking a stand on your own.

Waffling is flip-flopping on a player, thinking they are scummy and then thinking they are town.

Town players do both of these things, but are usually more willing to take a stand and say "So and so is scummy looking because reason", even though they may change their mind later.

You did more hedging than waffling, especially asking leading questions.

In scumhunting I like to ask open-ended questions so that i give the player I am asking fewer clues about what sort of answer I will find townish.


I agree. I think Onegu played one heck of a game, for being stuck as a one-man scumteam, but if there's one criticism on your game it's that it was quite clear you had only one interest: you were deadly scared of being lynched yourself, which became obvious at some points during N2 and D3. You didn't try to really find scum, but rather hopped on whatever opportunity came along to ensure you yourself survived.

Town is not as scared of dying as scum (particularly a 1-man scumteam), so when the only reason for posting is to complain that someone else looks scummier and should be voted for, sets off alarm bells. That's more looking for a reason to vote someone, than looking for actual scum. Be careful with that.

But I reiterate, Onegu, you played an awesome scumgame, and were hit by quite a bit of bad luck, and some also excellent play by town JK.

I also haven't mentioned iVlosk! yet. While somewhat abrasive, there were two things instantly apparent in iVlosk's play: he was town, and he was setting himself up as town sheriff. While Xzavier was (needlessly) thrown to the wolves, in general iVlosk was good for town, and between him and fferyllt, it was very hard for any (let alone a 1-man) scumteam to get away with anything.


Corazon did this repeatedly in Personality 2 and it fucked me up :/
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25563 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-17 23:57:00
June 17 2013 23:52 GMT
#1645
On June 16 2013 15:16 s0Lstice wrote:
xzav,

a good example of what to do as town when you are getting lynched is what Blazinghand did in Les Mafia: link

He still ended up getting lynched, but his last 24-36 hours are exactly what should be done. Your objective is to help the town as much as possible before you die. You win with town whether you are alive or dead, so your own survival takes a back seat to infodumping the thread with as much quality analysis as you can manage before you die.

That said, if you do this right, it's very possible town will reconsider your lynch. Your best weapon is being useful, and doing the gruntwork to provide solid analysis. Do this, and the rest should(!) take care of itself. It's possible that a derpy town will still lynch you despite doing everything right though ;D

In your specific case, you probably could have stopped your lynch by being more active. It was a close vote (one of the votes on you was Onegu, who was voting you for self preservation) It's much easier for the wagon to stay on track if you aren't there looking consistently not scummy.


Yeah basically just do what I did and hope your town is good instead of the town i had in leas mafia huehuehuehuehu

Edit: seriously though with the exception of at LYLO, getting mislynched should be considered an opportunity and not an obstacle. I mean, obviously it's an obstacle, since you don't want to get lynched, but if you think you probably will, use this thought process: "after I flip, I am a confirmed townie. I'll put in some good thoughts so we can still win after I'm dead". A lot of what makes playing mafia hard is you see seemingly helpful players who turn out to be scum, so it's hard to trust people. A lot of people say things like "this guy is confirmed town" or whatever but really the only players who are confirmed town, who you can 100% trust, are players who are dead.

and even then, a dead player is just honest, not right. So you can't just dump reads, you have to dump explanations as well. if you spend your final hours alive stating a read without backing it up, people will say "oh i guess he was just mad he was getting lynched, we can ignore him" or similar. You want to lay out a case that's SO GOOD that the only reason they're not lynching your target is they think you're scum. Then you flip town and they're like "oh shit my mind is blown" or in the case of the town in Les Mafia, "oh yeah I thought BH was town but lynched him anyways cause i'm bad and BH is literally the best"
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
s0Lstice
Profile Joined August 2009
United States1833 Posts
June 18 2013 00:33 GMT
#1646
Ohhh bh you are a saucy one
ATOBTTR
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
June 18 2013 09:29 GMT
#1647
BH neglects to mention that his dying awesome case was on a townie after all
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25563 Posts
June 18 2013 09:33 GMT
#1648
I had 3 scumreads and two were correct, and I even detected that something was off about DP's play by the end of it. Marv neglects to mention that he's infinitely not-as-cool as me.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
June 18 2013 09:44 GMT
#1649
I am incredibly jelly of your 11-18 record, I must admit.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25563 Posts
June 18 2013 09:48 GMT
#1650
It's not about winning, it's about winning with style. Eccleston, for example, has style.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
ObviousOne
Profile Joined April 2012
United States3704 Posts
June 18 2013 09:48 GMT
#1651
On June 18 2013 18:48 Blazinghand wrote:
It's not about winning, it's about winning with style. Eccleston, for example, has style.

He mad, you stylin'
Fear is the only darkness. ~Destiny Fan Club operator~
ObviousOne
Profile Joined April 2012
United States3704 Posts
June 18 2013 09:50 GMT
#1652
Sign-ups are open for the next game, btw: newbies click here and sign up!
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=417692
Fear is the only darkness. ~Destiny Fan Club operator~
Dandel Ion
Profile Joined November 2010
Austria17960 Posts
June 18 2013 09:50 GMT
#1653
If we're already equating winrate to skill in a team game, we might as well give out ELO ratings to people.
A backwards poet writes inverse.
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25563 Posts
June 18 2013 09:51 GMT
#1654
omg valve plz stop matching me with low elo ppl

mmr so bad
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Dandel Ion
Profile Joined November 2010
Austria17960 Posts
June 18 2013 10:18 GMT
#1655
dw, my next game will be accesible only to people who are at least 1500 elo in every matchup
A backwards poet writes inverse.
Xzavier
Profile Joined January 2013
United States393 Posts
June 18 2013 14:55 GMT
#1656
On June 18 2013 18:51 Blazinghand wrote:
omg valve plz stop matching me with low elo ppl

mmr so bad


Then stick to playing ranked, you get less feeders and instalockers.
Mafia :D
fferyllt
Profile Joined April 2013
United States317 Posts
June 18 2013 16:57 GMT
#1657
One thing I really liked about this postgame is that I received some useful feedback about my play, and also from reading the QT. As a blue, finding that I was seldom mentioned on the QT and never really featured as a strong town read was a relief since I thought I'd made a serious slip on day 1.

AxelGreasersDog's QT post #15 was one of the most insightful commentaries I've read in a long time, particularly:


I like first posts in games. While basing anything off small data sets is unreliable so is extracting information from noisy data sets.
Thus even though first post in games is a small amount of data it is "clean"

That is one of the whys that scum like to shit up a thread by making it loud and noisy and emotional.
If there is emotive crap flying around it is much more likely that the townies will mis-attribute the off/scummy behaviour to personal non game related reactions to the crap.

In first posts, the townies, come out of vacuum of knowledge, scum come out of the scum QT.
To me at that point the amount of difference in what the (scum vs town)players think they know is greatest.

At this point in the thread the thread acquires a dead baby seal. Everybody scum or not, playing or not, reacts to the seal.
I may be able to tell what kinds of human they are from their reactions, but after this point I don't get any more first post reads. Oh well.


I'm not sure specifically what I will modify yet, but this will change my future first posts, and will also affect what I look for in first posts. I told Prome in one of our PM exchanges during the game that playing with TL players at MS has changed my approach to getting players sorted, with an emphasis on more quickly, more decisively and more vocally.

Thanks to all the folks who have provided feedback. Game-improving feedback doesn't always grow on trees.
Onegu
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States9699 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-18 17:32:02
June 18 2013 17:30 GMT
#1658
Ffer really enjoyed playing with you hope to see you in the new noob mafia. iVlosK and spicy hope to see you there also playing with you three really inspired me to pick up my game and thought process.
Try TL Mafia!!!
fferyllt
Profile Joined April 2013
United States317 Posts
June 18 2013 18:01 GMT
#1659
Thanks! I really enjoyed playing with you, too. I probably won't play another newbie game. Mostly I wanted to get better with the user interface and the game thread layout.

I'm overextended in mafia games at MS at the moment, with 8 games in progress where I am still alive. Playing a game with 48 hour days right now would seriously impact my efforts in those games. I plan to save some bandwidth for TL games once a couple of these games finish or I die, whichever comes first.
Hurricane Sponge
Profile Joined March 2010
868 Posts
June 18 2013 21:30 GMT
#1660
On June 19 2013 03:01 fferyllt wrote:
I'm overextended in mafia games at MS at the moment, with 8 games in progress where I am still alive.


When the 'newbie games' have players in them that are currently playing 8 SIMULTANEOUS games of mafia, it makes me nervous about signing up.
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