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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On May 20 2013 17:13 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2013 17:05 Blazinghand wrote:
I've given completely reasonable explanations, explanations that are in my opinion AS or MORE likely to be true than the various explanations DP has offered for my actions after the "scumslip". For what it's worth, I make one-off comments, asides, wry observations and such ALL THE TIME. I even make ones that make me look weird/scummy (as town OR scum) because that's just my personality. I keep it casual. If you think all my actions after the "scumslip" are scummy BECAUSE all my actions BEFORE the scumslip are scummy, you're privileging the hypothesis-- or in mafia parlance, tunnelling. Actually all you have done is desperately fling meta into the thread to try and prove you do things as both alignments. I don't give a fuck about your meta. This isn't a meta case so stop bringing meta into it.
The fact of the matter is, if you say "BH is doing this, this is something scum does" it's entirely valid to say "well, this is something I do as town" isn't it? Look, imagine if someone said "look how aggressive DP is! he must be scum!" you'd say "uh man I do that as town also, I'm always aggressive" and the person said "this isnt' a meta case so stop bringing meta into it" you'd be like "wat"
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On May 20 2013 17:10 DarthPunk wrote:
OK. Blazinghand is going to kick and scream and talk and talk and talk and argue away the slip.
The fact remains that I am 100% confident he is scum. He slipped. Plain and simple. He slipped whilst trying to become confirmed town via his role.
His mindset Directly after the slip is scummy as shit. He composes himself later and tries to drown out the blatantly scummy posts of his but it is too late. No matter what BH says he can't change those few posts which complete reveal a scum mindset.
Add to that the only reason he is alive today is due to a Mason claim which could be scum aligned just makes this all the more obvious.
Lynch Blazinghand tomorrow. No excuses. No Exceptions. No matter how hard he fights it.
There is no new information here for me to respond to.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
And I'd just like to note, the fact that I'm fighting hard against getting lynched is not a scumtell. I fight hard against getting lynched as every alignment.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On May 20 2013 17:26 yamato77 wrote:
You forgetting about the scum masoner possibility does seem like something a scum player wouldn't do.
I want to know more about your reads before I write you off. For starters, tell me why you masoned marv.
Basically, I came into night 1 with 3 big townreads: DP, Marv, and (to an extent) Iamp. I decided I needed to mason someone who A) is almost certainly town and B) I can work well with. A) is because I want it to be clear I was in fact a masoner. B) is so that, well, I'm using my skill in a worthwhile way.
I decided that since the Iamp read is based on meta, and DP and I rarely interact well, I'd be best off going with Marv. Admittedly there was a risk to it since Marv and I have clashed once or twice recently (LXI), but Marv likes winning games of mafia more than he likes fighting with me, so I figured it was my best bet.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On May 20 2013 17:29 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2013 17:26 yamato77 wrote:
You forgetting about the scum masoner possibility does seem like something a scum player wouldn't do.
I want to know more about your reads before I write you off. For starters, tell me why you masoned marv. Of course he is not going to talk about a scum masoner if he is a scum masoner.
The possibility had already been brought up. what yamato77 specifically is referencing is that my "scumslip" actually has TWO assumptions made in it, not just ONE. Assumption 1) there are 3 scum. Assumption 2) it's impossible that there is a scum masoner. I can tell you why I forgot about the possibility of a scum masoner: I haven't ever seen it as a role in a normal mini game.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On May 20 2013 17:32 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2013 17:31 Blazinghand wrote:On May 20 2013 17:26 yamato77 wrote:
You forgetting about the scum masoner possibility does seem like something a scum player wouldn't do.
I want to know more about your reads before I write you off. For starters, tell me why you masoned marv. Basically, I came into night 1 with 3 big townreads: DP, Marv, and (to an extent) Iamp. I decided I needed to mason someone who A) is almost certainly town and B) I can work well with. A) is because I want it to be clear I was in fact a masoner. B) is so that, well, I'm using my skill in a worthwhile way. I decided that since the Iamp read is based on meta, and DP and I rarely interact well, I'd be best off going with Marv. Admittedly there was a risk to it since Marv and I have clashed once or twice recently (LXI), but Marv likes winning games of mafia more than he likes fighting with me, so I figured it was my best bet. Why do you think Marv is so townie? I do not share that opinion, necessarily.
Well, really it comes from two things.
The first is that Marv decided to pick a fight with me very early D1. Although I ended up having an inactive and unhelpful D1, I am notorious for being very aggressive, tunnelley, etc during my D1s. I've definitely gotten into shitfests with scum and brought them down, and also pulled off last-minute voteswitches (several times!) against scum to catch them. When I'm having an "on" game, if you'll pardon my pride, I fuckin rock at mafia. I don't think scum Marv would go after me D1 just because of the chance I figure out he's scum, turn it around on him and bury him. Now, of course just because it's unlikely doesn't mean it's impossible, but I give Marv credit for going after me.
The second is Marv's push against ST. Now, you might say "ST was a lurker who flipped town, how is this a towntell for Marv?" Well, basically ST was going to be lynched sooner or later. If I were scum I'd probably try to not lynch him for as long as possible, or wait until I needed lynchbait and gone after him. If he's alive at LYLO that's optimal. Scum has no reason to try to get this lynchable player lynched D1. Now, this isn't a sure fire thing, but with point 1 I think it's pretty convincing.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
Like, I guess what I'm saying is that even though ST flipped town, his lynch was still the right call from a town perspective D1. He was a liability; he had to go. The only thing IMO that detracts from point 2 is if GK turns out to be scum later on, in which case, yes, I could see a scum Marv doing it-- there is a scum motive for the actions. That being said, GK is unflipped so it is not yet time to draw associative tells. He could well be town.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On May 20 2013 17:39 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2013 17:31 yamato77 wrote:On May 20 2013 17:29 DarthPunk wrote:On May 20 2013 17:26 yamato77 wrote:
You forgetting about the scum masoner possibility does seem like something a scum player wouldn't do.
I want to know more about your reads before I write you off. For starters, tell me why you masoned marv. Of course he is not going to talk about a scum masoner if he is a scum masoner. How likely is it that a scum masoner has the presence of mind to omit the existence if his own role when considering how to make himself confirmed town to the thread? If he did this, he's better at scum than I thought. It's something I would do when fake claiming.
I certainly would like to think that were I scum and scumslipping, I'd scumslip in a way that was calculated to also have a townslip in it. I'm glad you think so highly of me and yourself, DP. But EVEN IF I'm a canny enough player to think of something like that, it's still an unusual thing to have in a scumslip. This is a mitigating factor.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
Like, DP, it's okay to admit that something is evidence against your case on me. It's not like literally everything I do is going to look scummy, even as scum. I definitely think your case against me has strong points, and I admit that, but at the same time it's wrong. If you feel like you need to automatically say everything I do/say is scummy, I get it, you're trying to push a wagon, but at least in your mind (if not in the thread) weigh what I'm saying here and consider how sure you are that I am scum.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On May 20 2013 17:42 yamato77 wrote:
I guess that's reasonable enough. I disagree with your reasoning, but I'm not pushing for a Marv lynch any time soon so that doesn't really matter.
Talk to me about GK. Any updated thoughts on him?
Honestly I've been entirely tied up with defending myself since the "scumslip" and haven't done the actual filter-diving that I promised beforehand. I'll get right on it.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On May 20 2013 19:13 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2013 19:08 marvellosity wrote:On May 20 2013 19:07 DarthPunk wrote:
So marv. You think he slipped or not? I think so, but I don't have your legendary decisiveness  Given BlazingHand has made a 1000 word case on his confirmed town mason partner before, I don't put it past him as town either. LOL.
MISTAKES WERE MADE OK
I just happened to forget who my mason partner was that one time. It's only ever happened once, I don't know why you people keep on mentioning it. it's not like you've never made a similar-sized mistake.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On May 20 2013 19:28 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2013 19:18 marvellosity wrote:
It's funny, but you rather get my point. Sometimes Blazing catches a bunch of mafia, sometimes he does something so mindblowing you can't even comprehend it.
The problem with it is as you mention; it's actually not mindboggling weird or dumb, it's just 'off' and implies extra information. But could a town Blazing also have gone "derp it's a mini, there's 3 mafia"? maybe too.
I'm going to not think about Blazing's alignment for the rest of night 1 / first half of day 2 (if I'm alive, naturally) and try to find mafia in the rest of the people. It's not just the slip. It's the posts immediately after that. He is scum and needs to die. No question. No excuses. Just lynch the shit out of him. Show nested quote +On May 20 2013 19:19 marvellosity wrote:On May 20 2013 19:18 DarthPunk wrote:
Just as an aside. I'd like a medic to flip a coin and then prot one of myself or marv. yeah, that's how i always end up dying day 1. :< I think the only time i've ever been protected on day 1 was a) when I'm mafia or b) Personality 2. I died in 24 hours in my last game. I want that medic prot. Both you and I are a good save though.
Like the fact that I am pretty chill and casual and also advocate strongly for my beliefs is not imo a scumtell. Everything I've posted has had a reasonable or hilarious explanation that is as or more reasonable than the scum-based explantion you're been pushing. If you want to refute my individual points, I'll be glad to argue this again with you after I get some sleep. But really man I don't think you have a leg to stand on there.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On May 20 2013 19:32 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2013 19:31 Blazinghand wrote:On May 20 2013 19:28 DarthPunk wrote:On May 20 2013 19:18 marvellosity wrote:
It's funny, but you rather get my point. Sometimes Blazing catches a bunch of mafia, sometimes he does something so mindblowing you can't even comprehend it.
The problem with it is as you mention; it's actually not mindboggling weird or dumb, it's just 'off' and implies extra information. But could a town Blazing also have gone "derp it's a mini, there's 3 mafia"? maybe too.
I'm going to not think about Blazing's alignment for the rest of night 1 / first half of day 2 (if I'm alive, naturally) and try to find mafia in the rest of the people. It's not just the slip. It's the posts immediately after that. He is scum and needs to die. No question. No excuses. Just lynch the shit out of him. On May 20 2013 19:19 marvellosity wrote:On May 20 2013 19:18 DarthPunk wrote:
Just as an aside. I'd like a medic to flip a coin and then prot one of myself or marv. yeah, that's how i always end up dying day 1. :< I think the only time i've ever been protected on day 1 was a) when I'm mafia or b) Personality 2. I died in 24 hours in my last game. I want that medic prot. Both you and I are a good save though. Like the fact that I am pretty chill and casual and also advocate strongly for my beliefs is not imo a scumtell. Everything I've posted has had a reasonable or hilarious explanation that is as or more reasonable than the scum-based explantion you're been pushing. If you want to refute my individual points, I'll be glad to argue this again with you after I get some sleep. But really man I don't think you have a leg to stand on there. No. I only want to know who is mafia, another argument about it will achieve literally nothing.
I didn't say I wouldn't write cases and take a look at other players. But DP can't walk around saying there's no reasonable explanation for how I've played without me opposing him. If you were in my position, you'd be doing what I'm doing.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On May 20 2013 19:33 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2013 19:32 marvellosity wrote:On May 20 2013 19:31 Blazinghand wrote:On May 20 2013 19:28 DarthPunk wrote:On May 20 2013 19:18 marvellosity wrote:
It's funny, but you rather get my point. Sometimes Blazing catches a bunch of mafia, sometimes he does something so mindblowing you can't even comprehend it.
The problem with it is as you mention; it's actually not mindboggling weird or dumb, it's just 'off' and implies extra information. But could a town Blazing also have gone "derp it's a mini, there's 3 mafia"? maybe too.
I'm going to not think about Blazing's alignment for the rest of night 1 / first half of day 2 (if I'm alive, naturally) and try to find mafia in the rest of the people. It's not just the slip. It's the posts immediately after that. He is scum and needs to die. No question. No excuses. Just lynch the shit out of him. On May 20 2013 19:19 marvellosity wrote:On May 20 2013 19:18 DarthPunk wrote:
Just as an aside. I'd like a medic to flip a coin and then prot one of myself or marv. yeah, that's how i always end up dying day 1. :< I think the only time i've ever been protected on day 1 was a) when I'm mafia or b) Personality 2. I died in 24 hours in my last game. I want that medic prot. Both you and I are a good save though. Like the fact that I am pretty chill and casual and also advocate strongly for my beliefs is not imo a scumtell. Everything I've posted has had a reasonable or hilarious explanation that is as or more reasonable than the scum-based explantion you're been pushing. If you want to refute my individual points, I'll be glad to argue this again with you after I get some sleep. But really man I don't think you have a leg to stand on there. No. I only want to know who is mafia, another argument about it will achieve literally nothing. I didn't say I wouldn't write cases and take a look at other players. But DP can't walk around saying there's no reasonable explanation for how I've played without me opposing him. If you were in my position, you'd be doing what I'm doing.
Also I consider "avoiding a mislynch" to definitely NOT be "literally nothing". I suspect not getting mislynched tomorrow will be contigent on two factors: defending myself successfully and writing a very cogent case with solid analysis. But I can't let DP just be like "nothing BH has said make sense" here in the thread and let that slide. I just can't. You know that.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On May 20 2013 19:35 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2013 19:31 Blazinghand wrote:On May 20 2013 19:28 DarthPunk wrote:On May 20 2013 19:18 marvellosity wrote:
It's funny, but you rather get my point. Sometimes Blazing catches a bunch of mafia, sometimes he does something so mindblowing you can't even comprehend it.
The problem with it is as you mention; it's actually not mindboggling weird or dumb, it's just 'off' and implies extra information. But could a town Blazing also have gone "derp it's a mini, there's 3 mafia"? maybe too.
I'm going to not think about Blazing's alignment for the rest of night 1 / first half of day 2 (if I'm alive, naturally) and try to find mafia in the rest of the people. It's not just the slip. It's the posts immediately after that. He is scum and needs to die. No question. No excuses. Just lynch the shit out of him. On May 20 2013 19:19 marvellosity wrote:On May 20 2013 19:18 DarthPunk wrote:
Just as an aside. I'd like a medic to flip a coin and then prot one of myself or marv. yeah, that's how i always end up dying day 1. :< I think the only time i've ever been protected on day 1 was a) when I'm mafia or b) Personality 2. I died in 24 hours in my last game. I want that medic prot. Both you and I are a good save though. Like the fact that I am pretty chill and casual and also advocate strongly for my beliefs is not imo a scumtell. Everything I've posted has had a reasonable or hilarious explanation that is as or more reasonable than the scum-based explantion you're been pushing. If you want to refute my individual points, I'll be glad to argue this again with you after I get some sleep. But really man I don't think you have a leg to stand on there. NO.
oh, what a well argued series of points! clearly this is something that will convince people, and that I can respond to. A good use of both of our times!
no wait the opposite of that
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On May 21 2013 03:55 raynpelikoneet wrote:
The problem is if marv is scum nobody has balls to lynch him other than me & yamato.
I have the balls but he's not scum
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
Actually VA I have a question for you if you have a moment. Initially during D1 you had a town->null read on GK. Eventually this evolved into a scumread after GK said he didn't check his role PM. Since then you've been pushing for his lynch. Aside from the role PM shenannies, why do you think GK is scum? What has changed about your initial scumreads on stutters, WoS, and s0lstice that they are not your main pushes (just DI and GK)? I know you've kept the pressure up on s0lstice a little but since changing your vote to GK during D1 you have not mentioned sutters or s0lstice. Where do you stand on them?
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
So quicktopic is totally down for me marv is it down for you
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
Well, I am beginning to think JJD is town. I say this despite having pushed for his lynch yesterday because of his two most recent posts. He came into the thread to try to take credit for me seeming scummy, which isn't really a town move, but he said two things that I don't think he'd say as scum. First, he cops to his initial scumread on DP On May 21 2013 00:30 JarJarDrinks wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2013 23:52 s0Lstice wrote:
JarJar, how did you read DP prior to the BH scumslip and why? Was leaning scum. I wasn't crazy about how he misread my meta or how he was so quick to believe BHs claim. Not sure why he thinks he was "the towniest motherfucker in the game"
and then, and this is important, he decides that he's going to write a case against DP (link) when the easiest thing in the world is to say "yeah, DP is town look how he caught BH". This is not the move of a scum player, imo. A scum player has every incentive to give DP a townread, ESPECIALLY a scum player who has butted heads with DP already and now sees DP going after someone that said player targeted during D1. Why not say something like "ah, looks like you had some good in you after all DP! Yes, you are definitively town"? Why, as a low-activity inexperienced player, pick a fight with DP when it's pretty clear that BH is on the chopping block the next day?
I don't see scum taking a huge unnecessary risk like that. I can see a town player doing it, though, if he really does think DP is scum. I can see him doing it even though it's a dumb idea, because he wants to do what's right and push his scumreads.
JJD could be scum emulating a town player who does that-- but I don't think he is. I think he's town.
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EPT
