EPTBoardwalk Empire Mafia: Pick Your Power
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deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
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deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
It's been a while. Also GMarshal is red now? When did that happen. | ||
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deconduo
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Setting predefined picks for the draft order tends to work out well for town. In fact it is a large reason for mafia getting caught out in the last two PYP games I played. However it is massively un-fun, and I feel goes against the spirit of the game. Its also the reason I got rid of the whole drafting phase in the PTP games I hosted. If the majority want to go along with a pre-defined pick order, I'll co-operate. But given that there are almost three times more roles than players, why not have a free for all and play the game like its supposed to be played? | ||
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deconduo
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On April 04 2013 23:47 Oatsmaster wrote: oh deconduo too. So you arent in favor of directing picks even though it wins the game right? Pretty much. This is not a new opinion, I've said the same in every PYP game I've played. On April 04 2013 23:47 Oatsmaster wrote: What is good out of the PYP games that you played previously and want to implement/do in this game since it is also a PYP game? Good question actually. If you take the drafting part out of the equation, the game plays out pretty much the same as any insane type setup. Apart from that, you can start deducing roles from vanilla claims, flips and actions taken. Some roles will be pretty obvious once they are used, such as janitor, PoD etc. Once you know that a role is in the game you can start working out who has it, and if they've used it in a pro or anti-town manner. On April 04 2013 23:56 yamato77 wrote: You removed the draft order because of how you feel the game should be played. BC, then, made an obvious decision to NOT do that. Don't you think he has a reason for doing that? Should we just ignore possible advantages gained from setup just because we feel like it goes "against the spirit of the game"? If BC felt that way, why did he include the draft order? If he doesn't feel that way, why are you not trying your hardest to win? If it isn't against the rules, isn't it presumed by the host that it might happen? You can try your hardest to win without taking advantage of what you consider to be faults in the system. As I said, if people prefer to play to win no matter what, I'll go along with them. I'm just stating my objection in the hopes that other people will feel the same was as I do. If cheesing every game gave you the best chance to win, would you still do it? | ||
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deconduo
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On April 05 2013 00:14 yamato77 wrote: You define it as cheesing. BC did not. There's no reason to needlessly eliminate strategies that are beneficial to your wincon if they are perfectly within the rules, and should have been considered in the balancing of the game. That's why the Koreans were so good at "cheese" early on in SC2, because while the westerners were being idealistic in their play, the Koreans played to win, and did. If mafia can't figure out how to combat this strategy within this setup, then they deserve to lose, because I have specifically talked about counterplay. I think you've misunderstood me. I'm objecting to it because its not fun, not because its unfair to the mafia. That's completely aside from the point I'm making. If I felt it was anti-town I would still be against it. Cheesing is good to throw in every once in a while to mix things up, but if you did it every game it would be boring as fuck. I feel the same way about the picking strats. Why not let everyone pick what they want for once, instead of forcing everyone to pick based on the position they get in the draft. | ||
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deconduo
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On April 05 2013 00:20 yamato77 wrote: Do you want mafia getting all of the ridiculous OP roles and auto-winning the game? I don't. So I plan against that happening. That can only happen if all the mafia get the top positions in the draft. And even then, it wouldn't even be close to giving them an auto win. | ||
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deconduo
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On April 05 2013 00:43 Oatsmaster wrote: Im dumb and stupid  Spell it out for me please Troll Caller vs Legit Caller. | ||
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On April 05 2013 23:18 austinmcc wrote: I am suggesting that town don't use KP. There will be corner cases - DT checks, possibly to keep any heavy lurkers we have out of the lynch discussion later on by shooting them a couple days in, etc. But in general, I don't think town should be firing off KP because, imo, the more quick deaths the better for scum this game. A longer game in which people have roles, we have checks, we have confirmations of role uses and whatnot, is going to favor town. It simply gets more and more difficult to hide that you chose a mafia-favored role or used your role in a mafia-ish manner. So the longer the game goes, better for town, therefore the less KP thrown around, better for town. If someone really wants to hero it up with KP, there's the magical compulsive scum-only vigi in the game. There's the assassin. I think it's BETTER for town to take the normal KP roles and not use them, because of the above paragraph, but if the only thing you're going to do this game is grab a KP role, flop your e-peen on the table, and shoot scum, then use one of those two roles. That way you don't hit townies and we don't need to discuss policy lynching people who shoot townies. This sums up my thoughts on town KP pretty well. On April 06 2013 00:56 VisceraEyes wrote: I just woke up and I have a fucking crazy idea. What if everyone who picks KP roles promises not to use them? I was looking at the role list and it seems that scum KP is fixed at 1? So it seems like scum will be focusing on trying to increase their KP (in a game this size). What if we all just don't use KP roles and lynch the fucking piss out of anyone who does? I mean obviously scum aren't going to claim if/when they do, but if we can get townies into the KP roles this would be a really good way to try and limit mafia KP. Why are you not reading the thread  On April 06 2013 03:07 yamato77 wrote: I thought you weren't reading the thread, Palmy? Why so scum, bro? Shitty post On April 06 2013 09:42 VisceraEyes wrote: VisceraEyes Pre-Dawn Lynch Preference of Wrath Yay, back to reading the thread. No better response than this? Pretty standard scum tactic to try and belittle a case against them rather than actually make a defense against. On April 06 2013 10:15 Restraining Order wrote: More and more people turned out to have picked 8, and more and more of them turned out to look mafia-ish. Suggesting that it's very possible mafia deliberatly picked people into 8. So i decided to scrap that idea and just not think about it anymore. See PYP: Insane as to why this is a shitty tactic and no intelligent mafia would try it again. On April 06 2013 10:51 Bill Murray wrote: Are we reading the same game... Palmar needs to shoot half of this town Yes. Everyone that didn't pick 8 I think. | ||
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deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
On April 06 2013 11:39 geript wrote: Deconduo... do you have any actually important opinions? Not really. Sno is probably scum, but he's probably getting day-vigged 30 seconds into day 1 so it doesn't really matter much either way. | ||
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On April 06 2013 11:43 Bill Murray wrote: DECONDUO WHAT ARE YOUR READS ON WHO ARE WHAT? I like austin's post that I quoted above. I don't think a mafia would push so hard to stop town being stupid. I think artanis is probably town as well. Caller is being Caller, but I think he is town Caller. Palmar is afk, but that's normal. He's still keeping up with the thread a bit so he's probably town, he doesn't even do that much when he's scum. Sno is probably scum cos his posts are terrible, and he got 1,1 unopposed. VE's play has been a bit out of sorts, but he seems to be back to normal now. My read on you is always wrong so I'm not even going to try. So many other new players that I don't know. | ||
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On April 06 2013 11:53 VisceraEyes wrote: I don't know why sn0 getting 1,1 unopposed makes him anything. Enlighten me. My bad. I though scum picked [1,1] in pretty much every single game, but I was remembering previous games wrongly. I went back and checked and its only a few games where scum picked [1,1] I still think sno has been pretty scummy tho | ||
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deconduo
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[QUOTE]On April 06 2013 11:51 deconduo wrote: [QUOTE]On April 06 2013 11:43 Bill Murray wrote: DECONDUO WHAT ARE YOUR READS ON WHO ARE WHAT?[/QUOTE] Palmar is afk, but that's normal. FoS Deconduo[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]On April 05 2013 01:29 Palmar wrote: I always suck at PYP games because I find the role discussion so boring I skip it.[/QUOTE] PTP 1: 3 posts before Day 1 PTP 2: 8 posts before Day 1 PYP Redux: 7 posts before Day 1 PYP Boardwalk: 18 posts before Day 1 Unless you're saying he's less afk than normal, I don't know why you think I'm wrong. | ||
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On April 05 2013 01:29 Palmar wrote: I always suck at PYP games because I find the role discussion so boring I skip it. PTP 1: 3 posts before Day 1 PTP 2: 8 posts before Day 1 PYP Redux: 7 posts before Day 1 PYP Boardwalk: 18 posts before Day 1 Unless you're saying he's less afk than normal, I don't know why you think I'm wrong. | ||
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deconduo
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## Vote strongandbig | ||
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On April 07 2013 10:11 gonzaw wrote: Countdown: 1 Okay, a couple of things: 1) Some of you have "voted" apparently but haven't posted in the voting thread (here) Don't be lazy guys 2) In my next post I'll post my main scumread, make a case against him, etc. Hopefully it can get something more out of you guys (in terms of content), as well as hopefully netting us one scum 3) Wow, BM is putting quite a lot of effort it seems, at least much more than what I remember (specially in contrast with other games of his, like LIII). That's pleasantly surprising  4) Although kind Ignore this post since it's just filler to ramp up the number of my posts >_> Your trully, gonzaw the One I swear that voting thread didn't exist 30 seconds ago. Also what's with the countdown? | ||
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deconduo
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On April 07 2013 23:35 Vivax wrote: Anyone else finding S & B scummy? Why would you make a post like this? | ||
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On April 08 2013 00:24 Vivax wrote: Uh, dunno, let me think. Ah right, to know who agrees with me? You don't find him scummy, I deduce from your post? Either you're not reading the thread at all or you are trying to bandwagon S+B without being blatantly obvious about it. Did you know several people have said he's scummy, and that he's was leading in votes when you posted that? You also gave no reasoning behind the post, it just came out of nowhere. That just screams bandwagon attempt to me. | ||
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deconduo
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On April 08 2013 00:44 Palmar wrote: For the record I think deconduo is town, although I'm not sure I agree with him a lot. Probably right not to, I'm a terrible scumhunter | ||
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deconduo
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On April 08 2013 00:54 Vivax wrote: I didn't take count of those who found S & B scummy, it was just my quick evaluation upon reviewing his filter while looking for his draft numbers. He didn't tell us yet, like Caller and geript. No need for me to get a bandwagon starting when there already is one, apparently. So you didn't catch up on the thread before posting that, you just read S+B's filter? Makes sense, but probably not something you should be doing. Even just a quick skim of the thread is important so you get an idea of where other people are at. | ||
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deconduo
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On April 08 2013 01:28 Vivax wrote: Deconduo I have a question. Since you have S & B as scumread, why did you look so skeptical towards my question? Would expect you to pop in and say: "Yeah I think he's totes scum too, vote him cause bsbsbsb, go read my case and shit, you're on the right track mate". Instead you didn't seem to happy about someone actually liking your own scumread, and even would have FOUND IT SCUMMY if I had been trying to start a bandwagon on him. What gives? I have no problem with you finding S+B scummy. The problem is in the way you phrased your post. 'Does anyone else find S+B scummy?' If you had been reading the thread, or looked at the voting thread you would KNOW this is the case. You are then essentially coming along and saying 'I want to lynch S+B, but lets make it look like I'm not jumping on the bandwagon.' Therefore: 1. You didn't read the thread OR 2. You are doing something incredibly scummy. You came back and verified that it was the first case, so I'm happy for now. | ||
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deconduo
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See above post. | ||
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On April 08 2013 01:29 VisceraEyes wrote: You accuse Vivax of not reading the thread, but somehow you missed the fact that gonzaw was scheduled for an earth-shattering scum-destroying case at the end of his countdown? I knew what was coming at the end of the countdown. I wanted to know wtf was the point of it. Then I realised it was counting down to his 3000th post. | ||
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deconduo
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On April 08 2013 01:38 Vivax wrote: It's weird, decon. Why would you expect scum to casually jump on a bus wagon against a buddy trying to look like they're not doing so? I actually thought that's what scum would attempt against townies, not scum. Your reason for finding me scummy isn't really consistent with you finding S & B scummy. Cause in that mindset, I don't think you would fear scum sneaking onto the bandwagon like you thought I was. You are completely missing the point. Question. If you had read the thread completely, and knew S+B was already under strong suspicion, would you have posted this: On April 07 2013 23:35 Vivax wrote: Anyone else finding S & B scummy? | ||
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On April 08 2013 02:01 austinmcc wrote: Vivax is missing the point, but he's not new and I wouldn't attribute that post to him being scummy. Yes, it shows that he's not following his read throughout the thread there, but it's not like scumVivax should be popping into thread and dropping that question without reading through to see what's happened. gonzaw, thoughts on shelvocke? The reason that post stood out is that it was completely at odds with his posting style up to that point. I just wanted to know if he posted it without reading the thread, and he admitted that he did. Overall its a null read to me as I've never played with him before so I don't know what his meta is. If he admitted posting it knowing S+B was under suspicion, THAT would have been much more of a red flag. I just wanted clarification. | ||
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deconduo
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-I think X is scummy -Y votes for X You seem to think that means I should assume Y is town. This obviously completely wrong. There is nothing stopping Y being scum and X being town. | ||
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On April 08 2013 04:30 strongandbig wrote: hey guys im grading problem sets right now but i took some time off to read the thread (lol 250 new posts) and heres what i got gonzaws artanis case: - accurately attacks his bad case on geript - accurately attacks artanis for "out of place complaints about the town/thread", something that seems like a decent scumhunting heuristic but i hadn't really thought about before - "other people are ignoring him" is a bad point, there hasn't been much reason to focus on him until now - "fake aggression" really is more of a meta point, i would need to see examples of previous cases i really don't like oatsmaster's post (18223749), it's pretty terribad. if artanis is scum i could see oats being scum too. or even if artanis isn't scum. i like how gonzaw is actually trying to get people to pay attention to his big post#3000 case in here is my answer to the case on me obviousone in his post 18223896 makes the correct distinction, what i meant when i said "picking phase strategy" was the actual role picking, all the number picking strategy was stupid. basically, the only reason the attacks on me make sense is because i said that thing about the picking phase strategy being important, and then wasn't around to actually talk about or make plans during the actual picking phase. Well, the reason i wasn't around is that i wasn't around. i have at least three other time-occuping activities (girlfriend-having, apartment-hunting, and homework-doing) that are more important to me than mafia and i was doing those things friday and saturday. now, that angle of attack is legitimate. it's incorrect because just being afk for a few days doesn't make me mafia. but it's legitimate. the people who are attacking me for being off my meta are just ridiculous and/or lazy. if you actually want to look into my town meta, you need to look further back than just one game. criticizing bad posts is something i quite enjoy, and if you think me doing it makes me scum then i lol. lurking on occasion is also something i do, and if you think that makes me scum then i also lol. post 18223971 geript votes for ryan for what appears to be no reason at all, weird because i remember seeing some townie stuff from geript earlier in the game. but this post is, what, an association case between ryan and meapak, without actually saying why he things meapak is scum? and also the fact that ryan doesn't comment on gonzaws artanis case? hmmmmmm, what is geript's comment on that case? oatsmaster wants to lynch vivax why? artanis's response to the gonzaw case - unconvincing but not obviously wrong, not sure here. vivax: "anyone else finding s & b scummy" lol oh my draft numbers were [4][2] visceraeyes 18227911 what a terrible post deconduo had just made a case on me and was following it up with a vote completely different than what vivax did visceraeyes Y U NO PAY ATTENTION gonzaw says vig shot me VIGS DONT SHOOT ME I WILL DO GOOD THINGS FOR TOWN!!!!!!!! Welcome to the game ##Unvote: StrongandBig | ||
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deconduo
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On April 08 2013 04:52 strongandbig wrote: i would think about killing VE because of how bad his vote on deconduo is but it would take some persuading for me to do that. I think he's just trying to pressure me. He hasn't done anything scummy enough to get lynched yet. | ||
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On April 08 2013 04:52 gonzaw wrote: I made that post before you posted s&b. Hye deconduo, what do you think about the Artanis case? You seemed too hung up with the Vivax issue to comment on it. Vivax too. My first impression of artanis was town, but I haven't been following the case as you said. I'll take a look now. | ||
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deconduo
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I've just read over Sno's filter from the 3 Newbie games he was in. First of all, he posted a shitload more in the first two games he played. He was active, he made good cases and generally played well. He was town in both games. In his third game he subbed in as scum about 2/3 of the way through. He posted a lot less than his first two games, and got lynched pretty quickly. However as this was a sub-in I wouldn't put too much weight in this. He also still posted a hell of a lot more than he has so far this game. I'd be almost willing to vote him on this alone, but it could be some RL reasons keeping him from posting. | ||
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On April 08 2013 05:16 gonzaw wrote: Hmm, one quick question guys (please answer): Are you content with the way this D1 is going? As in, how discussion in general is going, how scumhunting is going, how pressure on players is going, how consolidation is going, etc? How players are part of thread/discussions, etc? I personally don't like it that much. Its pretty slow, but that's not unusual for games without a mayoral election. | ||
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On April 08 2013 05:53 ObviousOne wrote: If I could grill and play at the same time I totally would. I see that gonzaw wants me to draw conclusions from my supplement to his meta case (since he done failed at doing it all proper like) so I guess I'll check Artanis' town games too for myself. I know we played together in Fruity. I'll get back with you after I finish grilling and consuming these ribs. Don't hate. Cool. Next on my list: ##Vote: Shelvocke | ||
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On April 08 2013 06:01 gonzaw wrote: Wait deconduo, have you mentioned why you want to kill Shevlocke before? I've skimmed your filter and didn't see anything (I may have missed it though) Nope. Just want to pressure him and see if he appears like OO did. | ||
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Sinani and Shelvocke next please. | ||
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I dunno. If you read his filter it does look like he tries to divert the lynch from VE to Shelvocke. | ||
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On April 09 2013 06:56 Caller wrote: mafia please kill me i am confirmed town and i want to go shake goznaw's hand in the afterlife qt Can't let you do that Dave. | ||
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On April 07 2013 03:15 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Day 1 has begun! Voting thread is going up now and the day will last til monday April 8th at 9pm est On April 09 2013 04:04 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Night 1 You have until 9pm est tuesday night. April 09 0404 KST = April 08 1404 EST | ||
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On April 10 2013 10:58 Mocsta wrote: I shot playe 7 I hope you didn't, but if its true just a heads up. I'm the janitor and now I can't tell you what the flips were. | ||
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