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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
/in Czesć Kurumi. Mowimie po Polsku! | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
On March 25 2013 04:07 InsertSmurfHere wrote: /in Coward | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
On March 25 2013 06:16 iamperfection wrote: I have to out Bye for now PerfectOne. | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
Since some of us are strangers I think we should get to know one another a little better. Let's introduce ourselves to each other! List three things, only let two of them true! 1. I have a list of my games in my profile. 2. I have played newbie games on TL. 3. I have read my role PM. | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On March 26 2013 10:42 raynpelikoneet wrote: The problem with meta in this prplhz case is that it's the easiest thing in the world to fake. Even the dumbest idiot could probably fake their "town meta" by posting some general advice as their first post. Other than that part, you are right. Broken out, preserving the interaction above: On March 26 2013 10:29 raynpelikoneet wrote: And given that you don't (at least you should not) know prplhz's alignment how exactly is it not beneficial to see how he reacts to the case first? I thought about this sentence for a while. I probably thought about it for too long. It might even be nothing. I thought about what a Rayn might be implying here, assuming town: If we emphasize the "don't" and following parenthesis, the implication here is that Rayn is calling out Kei for shutting down a potentially useful avenue of information. Okay, I get that. I thought about what Rayn might be implying here, assuming mafia: If we emphasize the "given that you" portion, we get a scum claim. I don't know Rayn, and I can't reference the only other recent game since it's ongoing, so I want to say it's believe from a town mindset as an accusation against Kei derailing SNB's poorly constructed case. The alternative is a tired mind, ready for sleep, just posting for the sake of posting and literally claiming scum in the thread. So this interaction took me to Keirathi's filter where I found myself in a land of opinion-less posts and pseudo-random votes. This is not the town voice of Keirathi I remember from the Hydra game we played in together. It reminds me more of the safer and more timid Keirathi of 6 months ago, which was a safe way to play... the only town points in his favor IMO are that he derailed SNB's case for the right reason. (An addendum for later--) It's demonstrably fact that Keirathi has essentially defended prplhz by attacking SNB's case which says nothing now about them individually but should be remembered in the late stages of the game if it's still pertinent. Right now based on signal-to-noise ratio of Keirathi's filter, I'm calling him scum. What do you guys think? | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
On March 26 2013 14:57 Oatsmaster wrote: Wait wait wait what? How do you propose we catch this 'scum' who hasnt read his role pm? If you say that he acts like a townie, what differentiates him from the other townies? How does him having no KP make it easier? Wtf acro. I read my role PM before I started writing my last post. Just so you know. That seems to be a sticking point and you can put it to rest. First post was just for fun. If you don't recognize the flavor: + Show Spoiler + On February 26 2013 10:25 Chezinu wrote: Hello everyone. Before we began, I think it is important for everyone to get to know one another. As an ice breaker, I would like everyone to state their name and post three things about themselves which may not be known to the others people here. Two are true and one is not. I will start. My name is Chezinu I have read my role I never played a newbie game I am not The Scribe! | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
On March 26 2013 15:13 Acrofales wrote: USE YOUR BRAIN FOR ONCE. IN. A. MAFIA. GAME. EVER. PLEASE. We lynch scum. We lynch another scum. We lynch another scum. KP stops. Golly, I wonder who could be the last scum? Maybe that dude who still hasn't read his role PM and therefore doesn't know he should be sending in nightly hits! Also, if he does read his role PM in time to send in the NKs and you reach 2-1 lylo with someone who looked townie all game and someone who has looked townie, but claimed not to read his role PM, LYNCH THE FUCKING GUY WHO HASN'T READ HIS ROLE PM UNTIL LATE IN THE GAME. If town has people left who failed to look properly townie alive after a minimum of 5 lynches, in which 3 scum were nailed, then I don't know what to tell you. Townies failed miserably. lol | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
On March 26 2013 15:15 Keirathi wrote: Acro/OO: Thoughts on Grack? Grack reads like he's ready to become an echo of thread sentiment. By admission this is a return to the game and he may be a bit rusty for that. I liked: On March 26 2013 11:17 Grackaroni wrote: For the record Hapa: When I say that I don't like Sinani using the fact that OO didn't read his role PM to say that he is scum. I mean that Sinani is using scummy logic. (he is misconstruing something that should not be alignment indicative and using it against OO to say that he is scum.) This is my first game in a long time and I am having some trouble finding where I need to focus. But I am giving reads and I will continue to do so. Lack of forthcoming reads about people he's asking questions about is kind of weird, him espousing as much is highlighted here: On March 26 2013 12:56 Grackaroni wrote: No..... I know what you dislike. I didn't say anything about what I think of Dandel Ion or ISH in that post. But I wasn't intending to because I haven't drawn any conclusions on them from it. All i am saying is that I dislike the case and for good reason. Calling out sinani for tunneling on my meaningless hello post: null We can find out a lot more about him when there are some concrete bits mid-day besides his interactions with sinani. Looking at it again, there's a kind of nugget in the middle there with the interaction between him and Palmar. (BTW I've never played with a D1-talkative Palmar before, this is kind of surreal.) He flat out gave Palmar a town read instead of proposing a better lynch target. Okay, that's weird. Scum points and town points, I want to see more. More red than green. Are you picking up what I'm putting down? | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
On March 26 2013 15:49 Keirathi wrote: Honestly, no.  Your whole post is kind of ramble-y. No thoughts on my case?They say it don't be like it is, but it do. I don't know about your case. I probably only skimmed it once. Need sleep as well. Remind me later. | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
On March 27 2013 02:02 raynpelikoneet wrote: How the fuck i'm supposed to follow up my accusation on OO when he has not answered it yet? Noone has pointed out why the case is bad so i'm waiting on OO to answer it first. If you can't find out why i think Oats & Smurf are scum by reading my filter then it's your fault not mine. Anyways your case is total bullshit. Whatever your bullshit question was got buried. CBA to find it until I get to a desktop computer. But you're wrong about me being mafia. I don't feel bad about not answering your case because I feel no need to defend myself from you. I'd rather discuss Grack since he is using me as an opportunity to sheep town sentiment on a player who (and you're going to love this) always looks scummy D1 (me!) | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
On March 27 2013 02:43 raynpelikoneet wrote: I had no questions. I was telling why you are scum. Oh. That's cool. Carry on then. You don't have to try to convince me I'm scum. While you're here, summarize your feelings about Grack for me, 'kay? | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
On March 26 2013 21:19 raynpelikoneet wrote: Palmar: I don't like the Grack case as much as i do like the OO one. Both fall into the same category of being non-commital but on top of that OO gives people some catches. If someone bases a case on me influenced by OO's post he can't be held accountable for it but he actually was the one who gave the thought out in the first place. I don't like wishy-washyness but even more i dislike wishy-washyness that leaves an open door for stupid townies to push a mislynch which you in fact caused in the first place. So this is saying the Grack is more town than me but doesn't say If you think he's town or mafia. Are you still trying to discredit me based on making one post before reading my role PM? Is Grack town or scum? | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
On March 27 2013 03:01 Acrofales wrote: What makes you say OO is not timid? He has not really done anything that stands out except to not read his role PM, when he had, probably, not read his role pm, which makes that completely non-indicative of alignment. Since then he has shared 2 rather vague and meaningless association cases... and a meandering post about Grack that left me with the feeling that he didn't actually have an opinion either way. Where are the reads? Where is the scumhunting? Where is the townie activity? You just don't have a handle on how I play. Marv understands me better. This is how I do. When I talk about something, it's typically because it's either worth replying to or the person I'm talking about is a scum-read of mine or someone I'm interested in getting a better read on myself. There's no reason to talk about townies except in passing and/or when referring to cases. I thought Kei was scummy yesterday but he's looking better today and I have dropped it. I'm hedging my bets on Grack being scum - responded to Palmar's pressure by giving Palmar a town read instead of an alternate lynch proposition - no substantial positions taken outside of calling Nisani's train of thought scummy - a lot of posts but little of any intent - seems to have known better than discuss my meaningless intro post but continues to talk about it for several posts instead of simply shutting down the conversation as pointless | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
On March 27 2013 03:14 Keirathi wrote: His case against me wasn't an association case. I mean, the top part of the post was some association bullshit, but the rest of it was just some (badly done) meta comparison to my last game. :o The top part was my read on Rayn (which stemmed from thinking the sentence could have come from a scum mindset) ending up as likely town and followed into getting a read on you based on your interaction. There was no intentional association except for the caveat at the end of the post before the last line. Sorry if it came off that way. | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
Is Oats town or scum to you? | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
On March 27 2013 03:44 Oatsmaster wrote: I dont think that Grack is scum. This post in particular He actually read the cases, didnt back down and say that he wont do it again or whatever. Especially this point, He knows that OO's attack is bullshit and calls him out for it. I strongly believe that Grack is town Except the part where I hadn't read the thread, implying I had not read it at all, which is false. Pointing out inconsistencies, play that does not behoove town, and bullshit in general is scummy now? Are you calling me scum without saying I'm scum? I disagree with your read on Grack and I will not be swayed by arguments made by others until Grack shows me that he is town. | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
On March 27 2013 03:50 Acrofales wrote: This still holds: I would have to take a closer look at LIX to see whether a blatant 180 like he took on his SnB read is something he might do as scum. However, first I'm going to look at your town meta. I don't really see what Marv does in your scum meta that is so very different from your play this game. But I admit I only know you from NMM37, which is not very representative at all for any kind of meta. I signed all my posts in Hydra if you're interested in my one and only scum game so far, but D1 in that game I basically posted less than a handful of times and lurked behind VE's interactions with the thread, and on D2 attacked one of the towniest players in the game who wasn't Marv trying to save my hide. After not being able to shake suspicion (and a lack of backup from VE as noted) I simply stopped posting to try to save my team from having to respond to new material I added to the thread. Here in this game, I am under some suspicion for shennanies on D1 but here I am presenting cases, giving my reads, and I'm still participating in the thread. I am used to being a player of interest D1 but that's not going to stop me from looking into people because I have nothing to hide and nobody's future interests to look out for except the town's. Take this for what you will, this is how I understand my meta and you may argue that in knowing general characteristics of my meta I can seek to avoid matching it (granted, one scum game does not really make a meta especially given it was a hydra game) but really I couldn't give less of a shit if you think I'm scummy as long as you agree that my reads have merit. Other players in all the games I was town have a tendency to ignore what I say unless it's obviously scummy (something I've been trying to improve in my town play, hopefully this game will be a testament to that) and if you think my cases are wrong please point out which facets and why those are incorrect or bad. | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
I'm happy to be wrong about you if you would just do something more useful than tunnel me all day. You're just staying the course though and it bothers me. | ||
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ObviousOne
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ObviousOne
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On March 27 2013 04:29 raynpelikoneet wrote: OO: What makes Grack more scummy than Cora? Cora's seemingly trying to get you to settle on a target with his tunnel and I don't have a good handle on his alignment since he could be serious about lynching you (which I disagree with doing). If I take his vote as intent to lynch then he's looking scummy to me for tunneling my town read. Maybe all you have to do is focus a bit more. He said in the following post that you have attacked 6 people, but that's actually stretching it a bit; perhaps that's how you get your information, via attack rather than discourse. If I assume you do it all via attacks then his argument is that you are being town you. If I assume you combine the two I would really like to see some more general discourse (such as asking me this question) On March 27 2013 00:11 cDgCorazon wrote: Hi. Thanks Mr. Smurf for calling me lurky when I was asleep. If you're going to make silly meta reads on me, it's not going to get you anywhere. In all honesty this thread has still been ridiculously chaotic. After the tragedy that was Personality Mafia, I'm trying to only post when I have thoughts and cases to make. Right now we are just switching from one lynch target to the other and not really getting anything done besides calling each other scum. As much as the hosts love to troll, I don't think that they made everyone scum. Sorry guys. To add my thoughts to the ring, I'm still convinced that Rayn is scum. He's following the thread sentiment to the letter. He's just attacking whoever has the heat at the time. Less than 24 hours into the game, he has already attacked the following people: Prphlz (voted) Me Marv Keir OO (voted) Oats + Show Spoiler + That's 40% of the people in the game... The other problem I have with this is that Rayn is not following through with any of his arguments (besides the OO vote). He's quite content to go after multiple people and not back his sentiments up. It's scummy because he's just trying to look like he is scumhunting, when in reality he is just shitting up the thread and sheeping on whoever is the flavor of the month (or by this thread's standards, flavor of the 10 minutes). That's not town-motivated behavior, it's scummy behavior. ##Vote: Raynpelikoneet If there's any questions for me I'd love to hear them. See if you can change his mind with your actions, he might just be a good candidate for tomorrow if this continues. Whereas Grack is literally making shit up about me to get me lynched. | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
On March 27 2013 04:53 Palmar wrote: I think reyn is town  Why the long face? Who else do you want to lynch other than Grack? | ||
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ObviousOne
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On March 27 2013 04:56 Keirathi wrote: Why do you not think that he believed it when he made it? That's the part I'm confused about. Literally everything his has said about it after-the-fact points to him believing it when he said it, then changing his mind after people pointed out how terrible it was and him doing a bit more research. Following on this, if he didn't believe the case when he made it, as town he should not have posted it. Especially when, as a smurf, he is attempting to bypass meta support against him-- we have to take what he says at face value. Smurf knew this and yet still BS'd in the thread. | ||
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ObviousOne
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Why did you ask me about him being scum if he wasn't a scum read of yours? | ||
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ObviousOne
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To add, it reads to me like you are potentially looking for support on lynching people who are suspicious of you without calling them scum. You are also indirectly defending Grack by having me consider him as a candidate today. | ||
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ObviousOne
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To finish the thought, you're really just defending Grack outright without giving me a proper alternative and I don't like it. | ||
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ObviousOne
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On March 27 2013 05:06 raynpelikoneet wrote: No, i will not support lynching Cora. Because i think he is town. K then garner your support elsewhere or provide a scummier target; I'm set on Grack for now. | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
On March 27 2013 05:08 Acrofales wrote: So... you have gone from having me as a scumspect for a terrible reason to throwing out some town reads. Who do you think is scum? There are a bunch of people I think could be scum as well. Cora, Sinani and OO are currently vying for second spot. I just looked over OO's town meta in Fruity and LX and it is very different from his play this game. Far more engaged and discussing things with people, less over-analysing and vague reads. Please clarify what you are saying here about me. The sentence structure lends itself to misinterpretation. | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
On March 27 2013 05:18 prplhz wrote: @Keirathi @strongandbig I voted Grackaroni for all the reasons presented by Palmar, Hapahauli and Keirathi. I liked them all. He's also the best lynch. I haven't been around much so far which is the explanation for why I didn't post a lot. Just got up to date on the thread. My Grackaroni vote was around page 16 and nothing has changed my mind since that. Cool. Now we need a second scum read from you, so take a few minutes to digest the thread and tell us one other player you would lynch today and a few brief reasons why. | ||
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ObviousOne
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On March 27 2013 05:20 strongandbig wrote: Nisani can you go into more detail as to why you think Grackaroni is town? I feel like that's kind of too important a point to just throw out like that without any explanation or discussion, given that he's the vote leader at the moment (i think). SNB: unless I'm misremembering which is entirely possible given this headache, the only two people who think Grackaroni is town and have expressed as much are Nisani and Rayn? Do you think this is a good sign that the lynch is indeed mafia or is their resistance to his lynch coming from a town mindset? I feel like that's where you're going with this question so I would like to hear the answer to it as well. | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
Original post regarding Grack: + Show Spoiler + On March 26 2013 15:39 ObviousOne wrote: Grack reads like he's ready to become an echo of thread sentiment. By admission this is a return to the game and he may be a bit rusty for that. I liked: Lack of forthcoming reads about people he's asking questions about is kind of weird, him espousing as much is highlighted here: Calling out sinani for tunneling on my meaningless hello post: null We can find out a lot more about him when there are some concrete bits mid-day besides his interactions with sinani. Looking at it again, there's a kind of nugget in the middle there with the interaction between him and Palmar. (BTW I've never played with a D1-talkative Palmar before, this is kind of surreal.) He flat out gave Palmar a town read instead of proposing a better lynch target. Okay, that's weird. Scum points and town points, I want to see more. More red than green. Are you picking up what I'm putting down? Dot points outlining why I think Grack is scum: + Show Spoiler + On March 27 2013 03:13 ObviousOne wrote: You just don't have a handle on how I play. Marv understands me better. This is how I do. When I talk about something, it's typically because it's either worth replying to or the person I'm talking about is a scum-read of mine or someone I'm interested in getting a better read on myself. There's no reason to talk about townies except in passing and/or when referring to cases. I thought Kei was scummy yesterday but he's looking better today and I have dropped it. I'm hedging my bets on Grack being scum - responded to Palmar's pressure by giving Palmar a town read instead of an alternate lynch proposition - no substantial positions taken outside of calling Nisani's train of thought scummy - a lot of posts but little of any intent - seems to have known better than discuss my meaningless intro post but continues to talk about it for several posts instead of simply shutting down the conversation as pointless My vote is currently on Grackaroni. | ||
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ObviousOne
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On March 27 2013 07:33 Palmar wrote: prplhz's entrance was shittier than I expected. I'm still not sure but I went back and compared his early efforts in nomination to this, because in nomination I mistook him for scum for a while. I'm not sure if I want to move the lynch off Grack to him, but whatever, I think he'll get a pass for today. marv you're still sort of meh in this thread. Sort of agreeing with this, at least initially. I didn't like that he voted and then spent the next hour catching up on the thread instead of catching up first and then voting. He also states he's pretty much blatantly sheeping several people's cases on Grackaroni and his own initiative in scum hunting has been less than stellar. I was more inclined to vote for him between his vote and his explanation but I'm not precisely convinced he's scum just for the vote-post delay. It's interesting that you choose him as a target when he's been a detractor of yours: On March 27 2013 05:33 prplhz wrote: Aren't you worried that Palmar is making bad cases and people are just sheeping them? It kinda seems like you think it's a bad thing but you're perfectly fine with it. What precisely about his entrance are you saying is scum motivated? | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
I commented on this earlier, which lends itself to Palmar's proposed policy lynch and gets us back on the track of analyzing smurf for what he presents to the thread: On March 27 2013 05:01 ObviousOne wrote: Following on this, if he didn't believe the case when he made it, as town he should not have posted it. Especially when, as a smurf, he is attempting to bypass meta support against him-- we have to take what he says at face value. Smurf knew this and yet still BS'd in the thread. | ||
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ObviousOne
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On March 27 2013 07:50 Palmar wrote: I did not say his entrance was scum motivated, I said it was shitty. This can be either lazy town or lazy scum, but the lack of concrete opinions in his posts make me lean slight scum on him. But again, I'm not sure right now. I'll know better how to proceed tomorrow. Okay. I am aware that you have a sort of policy where you will lynch stupid as hard as you lynch scum so I just wanted to see where you were coming from on that. Correct me if I am wrong on this statement, but that's where I'm working from. | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
On March 27 2013 08:23 Palmar wrote: I don't have any policy of the sort. In fact I consider one of the main objectives of mafia to be learning how to seperate stupid from scum. Maybe I misremembered your Hero mini clean read video or you just made it as a flippant comment. In either case, what do you make of Cora right now? He seems to WANT lynch votes on himself. | ||
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ObviousOne
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On March 27 2013 10:15 marvellosity wrote: Ugh - I retract what I said about over-explained town-read. Palmar actually asked for an explanation about it like that. Yeah... thanks for pointing this out, this actually runs counter to one of my points against Grackeroni. I am going to take another look at my stance because that was the major reason why I decided to tunnel in. Need to re-evaluate, I'm going to unvote for now and I'll be back in a few hours after raid night is over. | ||
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ObviousOne
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On March 27 2013 10:34 Grackaroni wrote: and seriously..... reallly.... Do you even read my posts? I pointed this exact thing out in my post. I said that you didn't read the thread closely or didn't filter Palmar because you would have known that my post on Palmar didn't come out of the blue. and then you came back with "Whereas Grack is literally making shit up about me to get me lynched." But now when Marv says it all of a sudden you notice. And people wonder why I've been less than motivated this game. Meh I was mostly right. You haven't mentioned anyone else you think is a better lynch. You didn't quote Palmar in the interaction which would have been useful for when people read your filter. Try to quote people when you respond to them and this will be so much easier to avoid. It's really easy to see that random town read/case on Palmar in your filter without the context of his question and be like "wow, fuck, that's random". Anyway, like I said, back in a few hours. | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
On March 27 2013 11:53 Acrofales wrote: Well, do you agree that his D1 in Fruity is NOTHING like his D1 here? It's called trying to be less bad. You should try it sometime. | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
On March 27 2013 11:58 Acrofales wrote: Yeah. I'm not making a meta case on you. I never said you were scum because your meta doesn't match up. I just said it wasn't a reason to call you town, and THAT is the point I am trying to make. Don't you find it weird Marv has this magic meta town read on you when you are apparently busy changing your meta? Unless I misunderstood, his meta read on me was that I was fearless here/previous town games and I was afraid to post in Hydra (my only scum game and therefore his only scum game to draw from) which is spot on. If you understood his meta case on me differently then that may be where the malfunction is occurring. | ||
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ObviousOne
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On March 27 2013 12:01 Acrofales wrote: It was a DIRECT response to your META town read on OO. I am not calling OO scum based on that. I was calling him not-a-town-read. You answered how he was not playing at ALL like his scum meta in Hydra. So I looked at his town games and found that your meta case is bollocks. Fruity was included there because those were the games I looked at and any numbskull can see that OO is not playing a similar game at all. So once again. How did you have a meta read on OO? Now answer the damn question and stop deflecting. I believe I also mentioned in one of my posts in Hydra that I intended to up my game. I cut the spam. I cut most of the trolling (sorry can't resist it all the time). My goal is to step up my play every game, as everyone's should be; where the problem begins is how low I started. If I matched my old town meta completely I would be ashamed. | ||
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ObviousOne
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On March 27 2013 11:16 Grackaroni wrote: lol see what the hell is this. I thought he was town but nobody is going to listen to me so now I'll just vote for town. Yeah I'm actually starting to lean scum on Rayn myself. The seed was planted earlier in my second post when I said that it was possible a tired Rayn could have scum slipped. I don't recall a response to that particular sentence I pointed out, but then again I didn't phrase it as a question. For reference: On March 26 2013 14:08 ObviousOne wrote: ==Some thoughts on today's action== + Show Spoiler + On March 26 2013 10:42 raynpelikoneet wrote: The problem with meta in this prplhz case is that it's the easiest thing in the world to fake. Even the dumbest idiot could probably fake their "town meta" by posting some general advice as their first post. Other than that part, you are right. Broken out, preserving the interaction above: I thought about this sentence for a while. I probably thought about it for too long. It might even be nothing. I thought about what a Rayn might be implying here, assuming town: If we emphasize the "don't" and following parenthesis, the implication here is that Rayn is calling out Kei for shutting down a potentially useful avenue of information. Okay, I get that. I thought about what Rayn might be implying here, assuming mafia: If we emphasize the "given that you" portion, we get a scum claim. I don't know Rayn, and I can't reference the only other recent game since it's ongoing, so I want to say it's believe from a town mindset as an accusation against Kei derailing SNB's poorly constructed case. The alternative is a tired mind, ready for sleep, just posting for the sake of posting and literally claiming scum in the thread. -snip irrelevant portion- Moving forward in the filter, I see him having scum reads on me and several other people I would consider town at this point.: On March 27 2013 09:41 raynpelikoneet wrote: PALMAR LET GO OF CORA AND GRACK AND FOCUS ON SCUM LIKE OO/OATS/SMURF/NISANI PLZ! Don't you see thye have disappeared when townies call out other townies and laugh in the background. Man, you should be able to see that. Who of those guys are mafia? I'm more null on Nisani but the rest are more town than scummy to me right now. So let's look at what he's brought up against his proposed alternate lynches: On March 27 2013 05:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: Okay, here is your fucking reasoning: Oats: Oats is calling S&B scum for his bad case and Smurf he is leaning town on for equally bad case. Both of the cases are based on same (apparently false/bad) meta-reads. After being called out does a full 180. Has no scum reads other than slightly leaning scum on Smurf (in that 180). Smurf: Smurf is leaving out stuff that does not speak in favor of his DI case. Stuff that he should have obviously checked. Does defend the case later on when people call him out on it. Can't be any sort of reaction test (rofl Nisani). Other than that this is all he has done: Called Cora out. How is he allowed to tell Cora to do something other than go after me when he hasn't done shit other than an scummy case? Look at the bolded/red sentence above, in particular. He's giving his full reasoning but he's doing it BEGRUDGINGLY. In what game do we begrudgingly give scum reads? That's pretty scummy to me on its own. Not demonstrating a town mindset IMO. The reads themselves are pretty meh. The only possible original thought I see is his stance on Oats but that's not a difficult thing to do given how easy of a target I feel Oats has made himself. Finally, resignation: On March 27 2013 11:12 raynpelikoneet wrote: Nobody is going to vote OO/Oats/Smurf either way whatever i say. And Grack has not dona anythig useful. I would be okay switching into one of those three or Nisani/prplhz, but nobody is going to listen to me anyways so what the hell. Better to trust people i trust are town then. 5, count them, five possible targets for today's lynch. That's a whole lot of suspicion for so little build-up. "Let's just lynch anyone!" How about no. | ||
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On March 27 2013 13:17 Hapahauli wrote: A lot of what you posted against Rayn is explained by him being an active, paranoid townie. Even the final note? I remember being like "let's lynch for information" long ago but if you say it on TL people will kill you outright because it's bad form, but that seems to be what the last post I quoted suggested. Even the part where he begrudgingly gives reads? I know that those two points alone don't make him super scummy but they point to a mindset that doesn't exactly have town's best interest in mind. | ||
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ObviousOne
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On March 27 2013 13:34 Hapahauli wrote: It reads more as frustration than anything sinister to me. Aaaaanyway I'll let him speak for himself. My sole objective right now is to get prplhz lynched - thoughts on him? -P16 delayed-reasoning vote was sheeping Palmar -Calling Palmar's cases bad. You guys seem to be spot on. On March 27 2013 05:33 prplhz wrote: Aren't you worried that Palmar is making bad cases and people are just sheeping them? It kinda seems like you think it's a bad thing but you're perfectly fine with it. Prp is a good lynch IMO. | ||
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If it's between Kei and Sinani I'll go with the former Keirathi laughed off my suspicions of him early game and I thought that was related to a conversation we had pre-game where he told me to make silly cases. His response was "I've created a monster" and to me it looked like he was simply laughing it off in an offhandedly way -- as if my suspicions were just completely unfounded and terribly reasoned -- which later convinced me to drop it when nobody really commented on it. As for Sinani I'm okay with lynching him based on participation level this game, the meta stuff doesn't fascinate me too terribly much in his case when I can barely remember he's even playing the game. Again, I want to lynch Keirathi over Sinani. | ||
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On March 28 2013 05:05 Hapahauli wrote: Fuck me I need to do a podcast on meta. All y'alls have no idea what you're doing when it comes to it. Meta is fantastic for highlight broad/general differences in mentality. In Nisani's case, he has very two different mindsets between his scum and town games wiht a HUGE sample-size to back it up. While he's a lurker in all his games, his town games are markedly more productive. He pushes cases, and tries to scumhunt, and all his posts are towards an objective purpose. When he's scum, he's "chatty," "trolly," and barely contributes. And this is consistent over MANY MANY of his games. 4 scumgames, and many more town games. You want me to sheep you? I can. You've got me here before I've had any coffee. Just say the word man. I need to get that coffee going... | ||
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On March 27 2013 05:58 ObviousOne wrote: In the interests of having meaningful discussion about today's candidates, I would like to see everyone take a stand on who they think should be up for lynch today so we can talk about the candidates and not miss out on the opportunity to hear from people who are in opposite time zones or not able to be in the thread at various points during the day. We're coming up on the halfway point of the day portion and this is the optimal time to switch gears and makes for a good opportunity for any lingering cases yet to be made to get posted in the thread before votes are stuck in useless places due to not being around. Not a fan of this scenario we are in right now. Of course nobody listens to me. Standard. | ||
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On March 28 2013 05:48 strongandbig wrote: "i told you so guys if you'd listened to me we would be so much better off right now guess i'm the towniest townie around" just like that case from before. Instead there was a fucking argument about Marv's read on me that felt like it went on for five pages. So yeah. Dubs Tee Effs. | ||
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On March 28 2013 06:18 Palmar wrote: Didn't Grackaroni have some kind of a mason role too, with this "circle of friends" stuff? The exact specifics of the role were not really in the role description but yes, it looked like a mason circle thing that could grow. | ||
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On March 28 2013 06:18 sinani206 wrote: OO ninja vote with 40 minutes left in the day ok. I just posted, relax son. | ||
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On March 28 2013 06:20 Keirathi wrote: The OP specifically mentions an expanding Mason Circle of people of any alignment. I read the OP like whenever I signed up-ago, it is kind of light on setup though. | ||
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On March 28 2013 06:32 Nisani201 wrote: I don't really know who else is mafia. I was thinking Cora was suspicious but he's probably not scum. I'll have to look things over. Guys Guys Lol this is the right person to lynch. | ||
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On March 28 2013 06:39 Hapahauli wrote: Since when the hell are you suspicious of Nisani? Does this not read to you as he's still suspicious of Cora There's no reason, NONE, right now, if you've read the thread, to worry about Cora. Zero. | ||
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On March 28 2013 06:40 strongandbig wrote: anyone want to try and lynch obviousone in the next 20 minutes? Did someone hear something? | ||
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On March 28 2013 06:42 Hapahauli wrote: I don't know what you're reading at all. He says he was suspicious of Cora. So he literally brought NOTHING new to the table. And you are okay with this? | ||
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On March 28 2013 06:45 Hapahauli wrote: So you're all over him now and convinced he's scum (despite supporting Sinani/Kei earlier) because all of a sudden he makes one post that brings nothing new to the table? uhhhhh. Not sure what your beef is. It's the right lynch for D1 based on what is possible right now. If you're unhappy about the candidates maybe you should have brought it up, oh, I donno, anytime before the final hours before the lynch. Nisani is the better choice between Sinani and Nisani right now, especially with Keirathi now definitely not getting lynched. That's my updated opinion. They are calling each other scum and any insight we might gain from one on the other is bunk. | ||
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On March 28 2013 06:49 Keirathi wrote: Bolded implies that you still want to lynch me. Discuss? No, I'm trying to type fast and that's not the implication, sorry if it came off that way. | ||
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On March 28 2013 06:49 Hapahauli wrote: My beef is how you magically pulled this Nisani lynch out of your ass because one of his posts "brought nothing new to the table." That's my beef. And it's a big beef. Then you can have your beef and eat it, too. | ||
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On March 28 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: Based on what he will flip we find a lot of new information. Like about OO who does a weird sinani -> nisani thing with no apparent reason. Nisani is dying It was almost guaranteed However Instead of like Giving some reads He just does nothing Nothing Zero Nada Zilch That's not town. That's scum. | ||
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The Nisani <---> Sinani thing should probably be given less weight if it was pure OMGUS / survival. More thoughts in a bit. | ||
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Comments about people taking OO role PM business seriously Calls out Acro for it + Show Spoiler [calling out acro] + On March 26 2013 13:52 Nisani201 wrote: Acrofales seemed to be making a lot of sense at the beginning of the game and now he's looking really bad. He said this: The joking stage of the game is over and he's still trying to drag it on into seriousness. And looking back at his filter, he said a lot of things about how people should be interpreting OO's words without putting in his own opinion. And in general there isn't much real content in his filter. I think he's scum. ##vote acrofales Acro OMGUS votes + Show Spoiler [omgus from acro] + On March 26 2013 14:08 Acrofales wrote: You are terrible. I made a lot of sense in the beginning of the game. My VERY FIRST serious post was my opinion on OO's claim. The rest of my filter has my opinion on DI, prplhz and Marv. Off the top of my head. Probably anything else that has been discussed in the thread too. This game gonna be easy. Lynch the liar! ##vote Nisani201 Calls out Acro for the OMGUS + Show Spoiler [calls out acro] + On March 27 2013 04:28 Nisani201 wrote: Good morning everyone. The case on Grack is really weak, and if it were made by someone other than Palmar it probably wouldn't be getting nearly as far as it is now. Just because Smurf made a bad case doesn't mean he's scum. He looks town now and there shouldn't be any suspicion on him. Acrofales is making a bit more sense but his case on me is just a bunch of OMGUS. Acro, who is your secondary suspect? Starts to change his mind on Acro + Show Spoiler [changing mind on acro] + On March 27 2013 06:18 Nisani201 wrote: I just read through Acro's filter again and I could be wrong about him. I want to believe Palmar is scum but I've been wrong about him in the past which is why I'm not pushing against him. I don't really know who else is scum. All of the current candidates are pretty bad. I'm gonna look into Cora. Converses with Marv, Marv sort of defending Sinani + Show Spoiler [marv commentary] + On March 28 2013 06:53 Nisani201 wrote: Just because he's posting more in this game or "cares more" about this game doesn't mean he's scum/town. He has been apathetic as both scum and town, so that's indicative of nothing. So I'm going to think out loud into the thread so we can discuss whether or not Sinani versus Acrofales was either something or nothing. Acro's vote on Sinani is a professed liar lynch vote. The lie, according to Sinani, was a lack of content in Acro's filter outside of his commentary on the Role PM situation. Looking at Acro's filter, there's plenty of chatter in there and some reactions to things in the thread, so this is pretty much a false case. Looking at it in retrospect, given the flip and Nisani's few final posts, we can see that Nisani was probably feeling kind of overwhelmed (as evidenced late in the day) but was able to remain composed given his imminent death. IMO Maybe the most important thing to come of the lynch was the interaction with Marv, in the final spoiler. Nisani's just pretty much told us that sinani's activity is usually not alignment indicative. As far as I can see, Nisani was null on Sinani until very very late into the day where he called out Sinani for a bullshit case on him. Sinani's vote on Nisani looks like a survival vote based on how one-sided the interaction was. Hapa's pressure could have been successful in garnering more votes and swaying things towards Sinani. For some reason I remember explicitly that Palmar stated he was okay with lynching either one. The one absolutely confirmed (flipped) town we have a read on Sinani was null for most of D1 and only near the end called Sinani scum for making bullshit up against him. So some questions I think we should consider for night phase: - Who was adamantly opposed to a Sinani lynch, and why? - Review of Sinani, are we still considering him a candidate for tomorrow's lynch? - How did the Nisani bandwagon form and who were the major factors in getting it started? - Why did we have a shit-fest midway through the day that derailed any kind of consolidation discussion? | ||
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On March 28 2013 15:13 Keirathi wrote: And, OO, since you're here: You were so willing to hop on my bandwagon because I laughed off your post about me earlier in the game. Why did you run off and leave the thread instead of engaging me and trying to actually figure out if I was scum or not? For reference: You just completely ignored me. That doesn't seem like someone who cares if the person they are voting for is town or not. Run off and leave at what point? In the hours before the lynch? I'll flesh out my mindset on this while you clarify that point. | ||
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On March 28 2013 15:13 Keirathi wrote: And, OO, since you're here: You were so willing to hop on my bandwagon because I laughed off your post about me earlier in the game. Why did you run off and leave the thread instead of engaging me and trying to actually figure out if I was scum or not? For reference: You just completely ignored me. That doesn't seem like someone who cares if the person they are voting for is town or not. So you were my first scum read in the game. Clearly it wasn't very well founded, and nobody else seemed to agree with me or respond to any of my points at all. You even laughed at my comments regarding you, and I wasn't sure if you were laughing because a) of our pre-game conversation where you said to make trolly cases (which I thought your response indicated that you believed that was what I was doing or b) because the case was just bad in some way. Being my first case and coming in at around, what, 6-8 hours into D1, it was the best I had to go on at the time and I was willing to let it drop as I started to dislike Grackaroni. I think part of the reason I'm still letting things drop is that most of the time I feel like I'm either not getting feedback or not even making good enough points for people to expound upon. This I attribute mostly to my relative lack of skill in identifying "proper" mafia traits, but getting feedback on them is really the only way I'm going to improve and when I get ignored as often as I do I don't get that opportunity to really develop anything. It would have been a lot simpler to have had one or two people say "obvious that case is shit, find something else" than to just let me bandy about on my own. So since nobody talked about it, I just went with it. I owned that scum read on you, it was mine. I let it go to see how things would develop, and I instead targeted Grack (seeing how I'd traded one townie for another, that's not really reflecting well on me). You were still in the back of my mind, actually both you and Cora seemed slightly off to me. I didn't do do anything regarding Cora yet and now that won't even be necessary. Here's what I'm thinking about right now, in response to this and while we're chatting. When I read interactions between you and Marv, I don't get the feeling that you're both playing for the same side. I also don't like that Marv concealed his case (he apparently was developing something for about a day and delayed releasing that information towards the end of the day cycle - his case on you). Marv is currently a person of interest to me. | ||
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On March 28 2013 15:44 Keirathi wrote: No, you're right. Saying "I've created a monster" was totally a reference to our pre-game conversations. I thought you would realize that I was implying that I thought your points were bullshit. But, that's not what I'm asking. When the wagon started rolling on me, you just sheeped your old bogus read because I didn't respond to it. But, I did give a response when you said thats why you were sheeping onto me. A response that you could have easily validated for yourself by looking back at Hydra (and maybe asking me which posts were mine and which were marv's, since I tended not to sign my posts like...ever...and marv forgot sometimes too). I refuted your entire reasoning for jumping on my wagon, but you didn't reconsider your vote nor even talk with me and tell me why I was wrong. That's a fair assessment of what I did, yes. I feel if it had been brought up hours before that I would have been more willing to talk about it, but can you fault me for thinking it was possible that you, as scum, might say anything to get out of a lynch? I was around but I was paying less attention than I should have been. It doesn't excuse it but I also jumped on Niasni for not giving a better alternative so at least I was consistent in that regard. Not sure there is a good answer to this question that doesn't involve me being terrible at arguing (IRL I don't argue often, I tend to let what is, be). (phone posting sorry it was slow) | ||
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On March 28 2013 15:52 cDgCorazon wrote: By the way OO, I just want to let you know that coming in and saying that you haven't read your role PM is a pretty terrible way to get people to take you seriously. Words whispered on the chopping block have a lot less power than when you're not on the chopping block. The whole role pm crap did not help your case, and that's why people weren't as receptive to your reads. I really do like your post on page 66 (analyzing the lynch). It's definitely a point in your favor from me, and I will sleep on your questions and answer them in the morning, plenty of time before the deadline. I think a lot more thought needs to be given on Marv's timing of the Kei case and I can't wait to hear what Yamato is brewing up for tomorrow. + Show Spoiler + He has no clue what he's talking about. Sorry that was me just blatantly trying to be Chezinu. I'm sure nobody is a fan of that type of thing but fuck it, it was a throwback to appease our host because Kurumi <3 Chezinu. | ||
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On March 28 2013 16:00 ObviousOne wrote: Sorry that was me just blatantly trying to be Chezinu. I'm sure nobody is a fan of that type of thing but fuck it, it was a throwback to appease our host because Kurumi <3 Chezinu. To add, this is a game based on TL Mafia personalities among other things so it fit with the theme of the game even though there wasn't any flavor to draw from. | ||
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I'm just looking at the timeline for when this conversation was happening to see if there's anything else I can describe about what was going on and mostly it's On March 28 2013 04:59 ObviousOne wrote: Just woke up and caught up. On March 28 2013 05:01 ObviousOne wrote: ##Vote: Keirathi On March 28 2013 05:17 ObviousOne wrote: Brb after coffee | ||
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ISH purports that prplhz' scum meta suggests not reading the thread and making up bullshit cases when people think he is mafia. I'm not seeing that here. I am getting the same general feeling about his play that I had in Nomination before I knew he was town there. I'm not going to pretend I'm any good at meta but it I go by feeling and ISH's description then prp's filter supports a town read. Towards the end of what is there he's even trying to keep things cool in the thread, and presents an interesting tidbit about Sinani. On March 28 2013 05:24 prplhz wrote: sinani206 is showing some classic illusion of grandeur in his "I know Nisani201 so just sheep me" post. That's how I remember town sinani206 while scum sinani206 doesn't want to do much and just tries to get other player's sympathy. | ||
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On March 28 2013 16:20 ObviousOne wrote: In the interests of participating in this conversation, I'm filtering prplhz. ISH purports that prplhz' scum meta suggests not reading the thread and making up bullshit cases when people think he is mafia. I'm not seeing that here. I am getting the same general feeling about his play that I had in Nomination before I knew he was town there. I'm not going to pretend I'm any good at meta but it I go by feeling and ISH's description then prp's filter supports a town read. Towards the end of what is there he's even trying to keep things cool in the thread, and presents an interesting tidbit about Sinani. I note this because it's semi-related to one of the questions I brought up earlier regarding whether or not Sinani is on the block tomorrow. | ||
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On March 28 2013 16:24 Keirathi wrote: We are talking about prplhz before this post: Everything after that is what I expect from town prplhz and why he wasn't a lynch candidate later in the day. Okay, so above that he just asks a bunch of questions for the most part, one comment about Rayn being frustrated. I'll take a look at Nomination. Early D1 nomination [town] features a lot of paragraphs and looks like real interest in the thread (genuine interest). Trying to get Oats/Moc to stop throwing shit on eachother (peacekeeping). Overall he looks committed to hunting scum right off the bat even as he catches up with the thread. That game looks a lot tighter in terms of being town than this game, but it's not out of the question. I wouldn't give him a green stamp just for his early D1 contributions but D1 looks OK to me right now looking back at it as an entire day. It feels similar to me, but his pokes in this game (again, for the early portion of the day) are much more brief and he pokes quite a few people with not a lot of followup except about Acrofales. Is Acro a person of interest for any of you guys, as well? | ||
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On March 28 2013 16:40 Keirathi wrote: Ding ding ding. You hit the nail on the head. Why was Smurf 100% absolutely positively sure that prplhz was town last night, before all the rest of what prplhz posted after the one I quoted? I don't particularly want to talk about Acro right now. But feel free if you have some thoughts. We can talk about Acro later, preferably with prplhz as part of the conversation if he's going to be picking up that torch again. Also, it looks like "questioning people's town reads" is going to be the general theme for this game. Before with Marv's town read on me, and this with ISH on prplhz. | ||
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On March 28 2013 16:45 Keirathi wrote: EBWOP: And for that matter, you aren't even my STRONGEST scum read. In my top 3, though. I get the feeling I am on this list =[ Guess I better work on that. Before you go sleep which of the things I mentioned I wanted to talk about earlier will get us further towards the right track tonight in your opinion? | ||
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He (we, as in Palmar and I) were already wrong on Grack. It could be a fatal disease for both of us. In re-reading the thread (I'm up to p21) I'm leaning town on Rayn btw. You still leaning town on Rayn, Palmar? That's the last I remember of you mentioning him off the top of my head. | ||
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On March 27 2013 23:28 Oatsmaster wrote: Dudes are stupid in mafia, shit happens. If you were a JOAT with a dayvig and you wanted to kill Grack.(I have extra info ^_^) WHY IN THE WHOLE WIDE WORLD WOULD YOU CLAIM?? If you are scum with anonymous dayvig, WHY WOULD YOU SHOOT LYNCHBAIT INSTEAD OF MARV. WHAT THE FUCK PALMAR. WHY IS YOUR DEFENSE HINGING ON THE GRACK SHOT. You have extra info... Please share. | ||
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Notable mentions of Nisani (chronologically if I copy/pasted correctly) + Show Spoiler [Hapa] + On March 26 2013 12:12 Hapahauli wrote: @ Nisani Where'd ya go? You offered us two pointless comments then dropped out of the thread: What are your thoughts on some of the suspicions in the thread so far? Particularly on Grack and prplhz? + Show Spoiler [Acro familiarity with Nisani's p…] + On March 26 2013 12:20 Acrofales wrote: Nisani is lurking and Dandel is spamming. Amazing. Who woulda thunk that would happen. + Show Spoiler [Acro votes] + On March 26 2013 14:08 Acrofales wrote: You are terrible. I made a lot of sense in the beginning of the game. My VERY FIRST serious post was my opinion on OO's claim. The rest of my filter has my opinion on DI, prplhz and Marv. Off the top of my head. Probably anything else that has been discussed in the thread too. This game gonna be easy. Lynch the liar! ##vote Nisani201 + Show Spoiler [Acro] + On March 27 2013 02:38 Acrofales wrote: Some updates. I like Smurf's more recent participation. Pressure on Cora feels good. Still don't like his stance on DI, and it depends on how good a player Smurf is, whether this is something that can be excused, or is an obvious scumtell. I want to know who he is. Raynpelikoneet does not look particularly scummy to me. There are some posts I don't like: + Show Spoiler [this one] + On March 26 2013 10:15 raynpelikoneet wrote: S&B: I never said i wasn't serious with my vote. I asked marv why does he assume i am serious. Something he also failed to answer. the way he phrased the initial question, he inherently claimed he wasn't actually very serious. A vague answer that feels like it's part of a larger backpedal regarding prplhz. However, having a very serious vote a few hours into D1 is an oxymoron. + Show Spoiler [and this one] + On March 26 2013 10:42 raynpelikoneet wrote: The problem with meta in this prplhz case is that it's the easiest thing in the world to fake. Even the dumbest idiot could probably fake their "town meta" by posting some general advice as their first post. Other than that part, you are right. However, neither of these are particularly concerning... and while his case on OO was somewhat OMGUS, I think he picked on some good points and OO's case really was just a bad association case based on unflipped players. Mostly, however, I like that he does not seem concerned to speak his mind or share his reads, and I don't get the feeling that he is just throwing suspicion around to see where it sticks. In closing: he's not a scumspect at the moment. I'm not really liking what I see in Cora's filter. In particular this post: came at a time when I was NOT talking about OO at all (except to answer Oats' stupid question). In fact, I only directly talk about OO in two posts, the rest is all using it as a springboard to analyse OTHER players' reactions to it. At the time, I had specifically singled out two reactions as feeling off: Nisani's and Cora's own. Trying to flip it back just reaks of panicked OMGUS. However, given how Cora was a rather easy mislynch in Personality 2, I am hesitant to just outright call him scum for this behaviour. While I don't agree with his read on Rayn, his posts about it are reasonable and he seems forthcoming with his opinion. My main scumspect is still Nisani. His case was a pack of lies and he has disappeared from the thread again. Lynch him. Here is his case on me: My first few posts were where I gave my opinion about OO's claim. How can those be my most sensible posts when he has clearly not even read them properly?! It's because he is scum and needed to contribute, so jumped on something without thinking it through, that's why. ##revote Nisani201 for emphasis. + Show Spoiler [Obvious] + On March 27 2013 03:41 ObviousOne wrote: Acro, I think your case on Nisani has some merit, though it may have roots in his relative inactivity up to this point. Do you have a second scum read? We seem to agree on Rayn looking town for now so I will ask for your opinion on Oatsmaster. Is Oats town or scum to you? + Show Spoiler [Grackaroni] + On March 27 2013 04:27 Grackaroni wrote: lol how many people have given multiple scum reads so far. I find it ridiculous that I'm still some major suspect because I made 3 posts without stances at the start of the game. I think Nisani and Sinani are both people to look into and both could be scum as well. Nisani wrote a case about acro and seemed to ignore all of the other things that Acro has done in the thread and just said he's too focused on you not reading your role pm. Once again I don't like Sinani's original contribution and he hasn't added anything since then. + Show Spoiler [Sinani] + On March 27 2013 04:32 sinani206 wrote: How can you say such a huge blanket statement. It's day 1, what evidence do you have that Smurf is for sure town? + Show Spoiler [Hapa again] + On March 27 2013 06:09 Hapahauli wrote: Can you outline the reasons for Acro being scum? All I see is an active townie. He's contributed a ton this game. It seemed like you were backing off Acro last night too... ... so I'm not sure how you're so confident in your read. + Show Spoiler [More hapa] + On March 27 2013 06:58 Hapahauli wrote: @ Nisani Why do you "want to believe" that Palmar is scum? If you think he's scum, then go after him. Furthermore, I don't understand why you think the Grack case is bad. These are your stated reasons: ...and they're pretty inadequate. I especially don't understand the bolded segment. The Grack case is primarily based on precisely that - that his reactions are completely objective, ungenuine, and purposeless in the context of the thread. How are his reactions not scummy? Furthermore, what in his filter to you suggests that he's town? + Show Spoiler [Acro] + On March 27 2013 07:10 Acrofales wrote: Fine. I nominate Nisani to be shot, hanged, drawn and quartered. After that we can burn him and end it all with a good old-fashioned drowning. I suggest sensibe people get their vote on him stat. Currently looking back into Smurf given the new insights into who he is and whether he could actually do all that crap as town, and then will look into Grackaroni. I was not convinced by the cases and didn't see anything particularly scummy about him, but his continued absense isn't doing him any favours. Deadline is still like 20 hours away, right? So plenty of time. + Show Spoiler [Sinani] + On March 27 2013 15:54 sinani206 wrote: OK, Nisani is scum. He's been using soft reads all game to make it look like he's contributing, saying people "look" or "feel" some way or another. He uses words like "possible" and "likely", phrases like "not really." Asking others useless questions to fill up his posts. Nisani is not acting as a townie should ask. He is hesitant and incomplete in his "analysis" and has been trying to deter discussion (here and here). Not to mention voting prplhz with no reasoning and only 2 sentences mentioning him, asking for a vote count before voting. Nisani's play is not townlike. There are no third parties. Therefore he is scum. So just looking at the list of names there, a few of them come up several times. Let's look at their reasons for mentioning Nisani. Hapa filter - Unsatisfied with Nisani's contributions in the early game - Did not like Nisani's lack of confidence his scum read on Acro - More about contribution / Nisani's wanting to believe that Palmar is scum Hapa's interactions with Nisani look town motivated to me. He looks like the first to bring up anything negative towards Nisani. Acro filter - Mentions Nisani is lurking (and doesn't mention if it's suspicious) - Rather blatant OMGUS vote on Nisani - Accusation that Nisani is feigning contribution, emphasizes vote - Brings up Nisani again after my call to start the consolidation process Acro's intentions are rather clear. They also seem to match Sinani's below. Why Nisani in particular? Was it because Nisani was talking about him being scummy? That's what it looks like to me but I might be wrong, I'm getting tired trying to finish this before I sleep. Sinani filter - Attacks Nisani for Nisani's defense of ISH - Claims Nisani has given nothing but soft-reads and feigned contribution More attacks for feigning contribution, lines up with Acro's read. Okay, so Nisani in retrospect was clearly making himself an easy target, and was not quite up to the task of providing us with multiple reads. He was under attack directly or indirectly by several people from nearly the beginning of the game based on his comments regarding the conversation about my Role PM post. I didn't see any point at which anyone was like "well, he looks like a tilted town" or anything like that in my re-read but I may have missed it. One of the possible reasons I can see this being the case is that he seems to have been brought to attention by Hapa. For the most part I've had a town read on Hapa the whole game and I'm sure I'm not the only one so I can see how it would lend itself to becoming part of "thread sentiment." The further tunneling by Acro kept Nisani on the back foot. Even I had a few words in regarding the situation (agreeing with Acro's case). Overall, the lynch happened rather easily, but I think everyone shares the blame on that. Nisani's play did not look like strong town play. We didn't question whether or not he seemed capable of coming up with something new under pressure. The most questionable candidate of the three people who addressed Nisani is Acro because it essentially boils down to OMGUS. Acro insisted multiple times that Nisani was scum. But that could just be Acro being Acro, I don't know him. I'm just looking at thread action here. Follow up questions that I really hope someone else will take a look at: - Were these tunnels / solitary reads / the only prudent cases made the the above players or were they actively seeking out more than one target for Day 1? - What other "targets of opportunity" did these players pass up in favor of Nisani? Was there any motivation to NOT vote for certain players who were exhibiting similar characteristics? (i.e. prplhz) - Feel free to add your own thoughts... | ||
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On March 28 2013 21:22 Palmar wrote: I'm almost always wrong on my initial day 1 read, which is why I always revise the read before lynchtime. As for rayn, I don't think he's town. I liked his initial contributions but I feel some of the things he said since have been pretty strange. I will elaborate later. Then again, I don't think he's our number 1 scum lynch for tomorrow. I still haven't decided where I want to take that. Yeah I saw later somewhere after p50 he was in your list of people you wanted to lynch. Was that after your re-read as you describe here? | ||
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Can you share this info? If you can't why even tell us you have it. If you can, why haven't you? Unless have you done it already surreptitiously? Hi. Please respond. I'm finally ready to pass out. I will read it later. Thanks. I'll respond to your whatever thing later Acro not sure what the fuss is I did some research and spoke my mind. We can have a good healthy fight about it later if I don't die. | ||
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On March 29 2013 06:06 strongandbig wrote: as for who I want to lynch tomorrow, I'm thinking obviousone. Forget the retarded backandforth about his meta, here's why: (1) the case on ryan was super scummy, both the tone and the reasoning. (2) he's been grubbing for towncred, going back in his own filter and pointing out where he's been right to make sure we all know it, and doing things that are typically "townie looking things that don't help town." example: he posted that big block of bold text about consolidation, then completely dropped it when no one but me responded, then when we were looking at the last minute for someone to lynch, he quoted his own big block of text and was all like "this town sucks right now" (3) most suspiciously - just look at the amount of effort versus content. He's putting a lot of text in the thread about how he's filtering this guy and that guy, how he's doing so much analysis, etctera. He's written all that text, and what cases or arguments has he actually made? A couple bullet points on Grack, and that terrible scummy case on Ryan. That's it. So yeah that's who I want to lynch tomorrow. This one wanted to literally last-minute vote switch to me 10 min to night post. Just a reminder. Is that what he always or just for the players he is incapable of discerning awful play from versus scum play from? | ||
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My iPod ate a word | ||
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On March 29 2013 06:15 Hapahauli wrote: Why are you insinuating that your play was bad? What are you referring to? It's objectively bad in hindsight. I wanted to lynch Grack. He was town. I wanted to lynch Rayn. I've since changed my mind. I wanted to lynch Kei. Mason claim lends itself to being town. I've tunneled poor targets for poor reasons all of D1. I call it bad because it was wrong and especially when I disregarded Kei's request to talk it out. | ||
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On March 29 2013 06:21 Hapahauli wrote: Yeah but SnB is attacking you for none of those reasons. SNB wasn't even on my radar for D1. I'm not questioning his reasons for voting me I'm questioning doing it 10 min before deadline. | ||
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On March 29 2013 06:06 strongandbig wrote: as for who I want to lynch tomorrow, I'm thinking obviousone. Forget the retarded backandforth about his meta, here's why: (1) the case on ryan was super scummy, both the tone and the reasoning. (2) he's been grubbing for towncred, going back in his own filter and pointing out where he's been right to make sure we all know it, and doing things that are typically "townie looking things that don't help town." example: he posted that big block of bold text about consolidation, then completely dropped it when no one but me responded, then when we were looking at the last minute for someone to lynch, he quoted his own big block of text and was all like "this town sucks right now" (3) most suspiciously - just look at the amount of effort versus content. He's putting a lot of text in the thread about how he's filtering this guy and that guy, how he's doing so much analysis, etctera. He's written all that text, and what cases or arguments has he actually made? A couple bullet points on Grack, and that terrible scummy case on Ryan. That's it. So yeah that's who I want to lynch tomorrow. 1) how was my tone scummy? I wanted to push a lynch I believed in. Wade Fell is my hero in this regard, I want to be the BH someday. 2) grubbing for towncred? - pointing out where i'm right? please tell me how the D1 lynch could have went more poorly if we had started consolidating and making the late D1 cases halfway through the day instead? - did I say this town sucks? I don't recall insulting everyone in the game 3) effort versus content? - well since my early reads were bogus and I never talked them out, I've taken Keirathi's advice to heart and am willing to TALK ABOUT SHIT before I go full throttle on someone - calling my cases bad right at the end (there's your "bad play versus scum play" response from me) He's essentially claiming that my tone makes me scummy. That's what this boils down to. | ||
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On March 29 2013 06:27 Acrofales wrote: So who do you want to lynch now? As I said earlier. I have no clue who you think is scum... and I don't like that at all. You want my suspects? Now? Can you wait for like just before deadline? | ||
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On March 29 2013 06:35 Hapahauli wrote: I mean it's not like you have a high chance of getting shot. I'd rather have the extra time to discuss your reads. I'm writing it up, list of names with some bullet points, hope that suits your fancy. Give me a few | ||
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1 sinani206 - Outside of Acro, was the second champion to the Nisani lynch. - Ostensibly should have had a better handle on Nisani's alignment, was completely wrong, so either a poor use of meta or intentionally using Nisani's lurky habits to push the agenda. - Sinani's voting reason claims that Nisani was pushing soft reads all game. This is hilarious because Nisani is his own first push. The rest of his filter before that is questions and looks like pretending to be involved. 2 Acrofales - I'm seeing dislike for my word choice and tone and how those cannot be linked to a town mentality. He admits he doesn't know me so how can this even be a thing if he's not comparing it to anything I've done before? - My activity within the time before the deadline is already explained within my filter during my conversation with Kei, somehow it's still an issue - Conversely gives me some credit for effort, but calls it null - that's fine and all but you could say that about anyone. Is time expenditure a town or scum tell for certain? - Strange reaction to my points about how the lynch came about. What's wrong with pointing out how the bandwagon got started? 3 strongandbig - Dislikes my "tone" ? Okay - Last minute vote-switch attempt (half-hearted at that) - Felt like mostly a non-entity D1 maybe not town, not sure yet Oatsmaster Palmar InsertSmurfHere | ||
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On March 29 2013 06:49 strongandbig wrote: this doesn't actually answer my points. 1- I explained why the ryan case was scummy in an earlier post and my filter isn't so long - the weird "seed" thing aka the "look guys i'm so self-consistent" stuff is the thing that stuck out to me the most. 2 - that's not what i'm referring to. 3- this point isn't something i can really learn more about by talking to you, it needs other people to read over and see what they think of my interpretation. Well, then use some fucking quotes because otherwise I have to guess what the hell you are talking about. Jesus. | ||
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On March 29 2013 06:51 sinani206 wrote: He's asking people to claim and post all their reads at night. Who does that help? It was within an hour to lynch are you casting doubt on Hapa???? | ||
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I called in the thread first so people don't lose their shit again like when I vote first LOL | ||
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On March 29 2013 07:10 strongandbig wrote: I would like some people to read OO's filter and tell me if they agree with me re: his effort to content ratio. What's your read on Marv? | ||
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I know but sinani did it end of day yesterday so it made ME lol | ||
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On March 29 2013 07:12 cDgCorazon wrote: Well there is explanation for Palmar kill: Scum afraid of him being good analyzer, kills his scumread to try and discredit him. It doesn't lead to him getting lynched, so they take him out. Unless there is a town vig that didn't call their shot, can we assume it was a scum vig? Alright Yamato, the clock is ticking. ##Vote: Yamato/Smurf I don't think we should jump to the conclusion that it was definitely a scum vig if there is the possibility it was a town JOAT. | ||
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On March 28 2013 06:18 sinani206 wrote: OO ninja vote with 40 minutes left in the day ok. | ||
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On March 29 2013 07:17 strongandbig wrote: well the fact that scum shot hapa and palmar obviously makes me wonder if marv is scum but other than that I always have a hard time reading him, and it's especially hard to tell whether or not he's town now because if he is town he would be behaving differently from normal anyway because of the personality stuff. so basically, null but def on my list of people to look more closely at. Okay, I was mostly asking because he pretty much hard defended me as town D1 and he has had absolutely zero reason to do that in this game when I was clearly a person of interest. Do you think a scum Marv would do that, and why? | ||
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On March 29 2013 07:26 Keirathi wrote: Scum marv would definitely do that. Go read this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=16497364 Scum marv hard defended town kush, then VE came in with a red check on kush. I explained why I thought that kush was still probably town and just framed. Marv commented to me in irc that that analysis was one of the few ever on TL that actually made him think about how he plays scum. That's pretty clever. Actually thinking about how that situation applies to me, it's a good bet to hedge that I'll survive to end-game if I don't get lynched D1. Look at my town record: 1st newbie game: lynched d1 as town 2nd newbie game: NK night 4 3rd newbie game: win at endgame 4th normal game: lynched d1 as town (marv was in on that one and later admitted he did it for the lulz) 6th normal game: win at endgame (d2 in this case) 7th normal game: died by 3p N4 A scum Marv would know if I'm town. It's a crazy and unpredictable move unless someone was aware of it and brought it up in the thread. Do you think he's using the same trick twice? | ||
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On March 29 2013 07:32 Palmar wrote: looks like I got shot. GG! GG Palmar <3 | ||
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On March 29 2013 07:39 Keirathi wrote: It's irrelevant because I don't know if you are town or not. That's fair. | ||
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On March 29 2013 07:49 strongandbig wrote: Nah we should be lunching obviousone I am delicious | ||
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On March 29 2013 07:45 Keirathi wrote: Anyways, someone walk me through why Sinani is so scummy that he should bet he lynch today. I'm just not seeing it. Like I said in my post, I have him pretty firmly in the null category. Biggest thing to me is that he seems extra concerned about his survival, but I don't think that is strictly 100% a mafia trait, it's just more likely to be mafia than town. I don't see what makes him the best second target for the day at all. iPod posting so I'm not quoting my reads from a little while ago but we can talk about the points regarding Sinani if you wish. | ||
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On March 29 2013 07:59 Keirathi wrote: I read your reasons but....I dunno, they don't really feel like such black-and-white-SLAMDUNK-we-got-scum reasons. Why him over Smurf/marv/s&b? I'm voting for SNB as well with the double lynch Marv has today to get his groove back, definitely Sinani over him. As for smurf, he does deserve a second look because his D1 was mostly spend arguing with people about his town read on prp and retaliating against Cora. By elimination I came up with the 6 players I felt were on the probably-not-town end of the spectrum. Palmar has since flipped town so I'm down to 5. Marv can go on that list if he isn't going to push harder today. ISH is spending a lot of time on the defensive but he seems to also find Acro suspicious and I agree with that notion. | ||
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On March 29 2013 09:02 Acrofales wrote: So those 5 are SnB, Smurf, Sinani, Marv and me? How about you give some reasons for these... or if it's elimination, explain your town reads. Marv is not in there. Oats is. Why do you want town read?. I gave scum reads. We can discuss my read on you if you want. Let's hash out why we each suspect the other. Was my assessment that your read of me boils down to disliking my tone and word choice for the most part accurate? That's how I read your representation of me so lets see if we're on he same page with this. | ||
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On March 29 2013 09:30 Acrofales wrote: Ah, I completely missed this post. That explains why I was confused. I don't see where you say why I'm scum. You say why you disagree with my points for calling you scum. But why does that make ME scum? Or, in fact, a similar thing for SnB. These reads seem to be pretty much pure "you made a case on me, so I think you're scum". The only case that actually contains a reason for someone being scum is Sinani. As for the points: 1) I don't "dislike" your word choice. I explain it pretty well. Why are you bothered with when your read started ("planting the seed") or what target a scum might have lynched if they didn't lynch Nisani ("target of opportunity")? These are things that should not be occupying a townie. I don't have to know you to know that townies should not be worried about that. 2) So what? I still think it's scummy. 3) No. Time expenditure is not a real tell, although scum tends to have a harder time being active. 4) Nothing. You just didn't do it properly. The utter lack of Marv in that list was remarkable. The inclusion of Hapa, one of the greatest opponents of the Nisani lynch was also strange. And your analysis of it was focused on all the wrong things. The purpose of the gigantic post was to discern how the Nisani bandwagon began, not to call everyone who was on it scummy. I spent about 4 hours in the thread talking to myself anyway so it was something to do in the down-time. And now we're all on the same page when it comes to how the bandwagon was formed and we can make conclusions from it. Mine was that the town all share blame for how it went down, but that Nisani's play wasn't doing him any favors either. | ||
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On March 29 2013 09:30 Acrofales wrote: Ah, I completely missed this post. That explains why I was confused. I don't see where you say why I'm scum. You say why you disagree with my points for calling you scum. But why does that make ME scum? Or, in fact, a similar thing for SnB. These reads seem to be pretty much pure "you made a case on me, so I think you're scum". The only case that actually contains a reason for someone being scum is Sinani. As for the points: 1) I don't "dislike" your word choice. I explain it pretty well. Why are you bothered with when your read started ("planting the seed") or what target a scum might have lynched if they didn't lynch Nisani ("target of opportunity")? These are things that should not be occupying a townie. I don't have to know you to know that townies should not be worried about that. 2) So what? I still think it's scummy. 3) No. Time expenditure is not a real tell, although scum tends to have a harder time being active. 4) Nothing. You just didn't do it properly. The utter lack of Marv in that list was remarkable. The inclusion of Hapa, one of the greatest opponents of the Nisani lynch was also strange. And your analysis of it was focused on all the wrong things. Furthermore, looking for people who resisted joining the Nisani bandwagon - i.e. scum would know he would flip town and thus might not be willing to pile on it willingly - and their reasoning for doing so can help us analyze the votes. For instance, how Marv brought up Keirathi close to the end of day. Let's check where his vote was parked before that: Rayn Me Nisani Kei Nisani If you have a scum read on Marv then this concept makes sense, Marv distancing himself from a Nisani lynch by bringing up Kei towards the end of the day. This is, by itself not enough information to call Marv scummy, but also reflect on how he's been mostly withholding his reads while still engaging in the thread. It speaks to a certain amount of calculation that I don't think anyone would put past the skill of Marv. Then again it could be coincidental and that's why I'm waiting to see what he's going to push today and how. As far as "planting the seed", I spoke colloquially and in reference to how it seeded the concept of Rayn being mafia in my mind based on a possible slip during a tired moment. It was a reflection on myself, and not on how I perceived the thread's reaction to it. Instead of storing the idea away, I posted it in the thread. or what target a scum might have lynched if they didn't lynch Nisani ("target of opportunity")? These are things that should not be occupying a townie. I don't have to know you to know that townies should not be worried about that. Because it's information that can be gleaned and analyzed and I see nothing wrong with considering it? | ||
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Rayn why did you have a TOWN read on SNB during day 1? You said "leaning town" so now I want to hear why you did not find him scummy yesterday. Full disclosure, go. | ||
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On March 30 2013 09:06 raynpelikoneet wrote: I just posted two posts directed to marv where i explain it. :D I only saw one and it was a question of why a mafia SNB would do something. Before when I asked this question about Marv, Kei corroborated a scenario in which a scum Marv would, as mafia, defend townies. He even just admitted as much. Scum SNB would do that if scum SNB knew I was town. It's an easy as balls case to make and ultimately hinges on my word choice to describe what he perceives to be my "mental state". I'm going to just he blunt here and say that this method is fallible agains me because I do not have my "writing voice" set in stone. If it was judging who I said it against and if those claims we're valid it would be a better post. ( for example, was the concept that I pointed out a possible major scum slip a viable option ). That didn't seem to be discussed. Mafia can use anything they find to get town lynched. The difference is understanding why and sometimes that doesn't become clear until a flip. I'm inclined to believe SNB is town for the original claim that he medic protected Hapa. | ||
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Mafia VE shutting chaos down http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=395690¤tpage=13#246 | ||
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On March 30 2013 09:39 raynpelikoneet wrote: EBWOP: I think at that stage of the game chaos is the best kind of distraction. Not the only one though. If anything you were doing what you claim to be a mafia tell - trying to start a big fight in the thread with me to create that large disruption. You corroborate that this is a tactic you feel is viable for scum and you may have attempted to draw me into a large argument over it. | ||
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Where are you on Acro right now? He was my third scum read N1 and you can find the reasons in my filter. Later when we started talking about it he disappeared and I felt that I remained on the right track with him. | ||
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On March 30 2013 09:59 marvellosity wrote: Give me your 4 best bets for mafia. You don't have to be sure or anything, just your impressions. On the quick, not in any special order: Sinani Acro Smurf Oats is a wildcard still I Haven't set down to figure him out | ||
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I will filter oats and dandel when I get around to my computer | ||
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What I did not like about Acro's action N1 was questioning why/what was to be gained from looking at how the D1 lynch wagon came about. Funny that he wouldn't want that to be discussed when he was 100% absolutely no-question certain that Nisani was mafia for most of D1. How better to shut down that conversation than to discredit the only person willing to put in the work to do it? | ||
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On March 30 2013 10:21 raynpelikoneet wrote: I have to agree with Acro on this. A lot of your reads (even your case on me from D1) is full of "might or might not be". I don't like that, because as mafia you are already giving yourself an out by saying "i might be wrong but...". I agree with Acro on this also. I think most of your N1 "plan" was based on that sinani is mafia (which town can't know). That would be a lot of discussion worth nothing (or needed to be revisited) if sinani in fact is town. The plan was to look into it and try to draw conclusions from it. Why are people so thick about this? Fuck-all else was happening in the thread anyhow. Seriously. I did some leg-work. During night phase. When people were sleeping. I drew my own conclusions from it. This is simple shit. Mountains from molehills up in this piece. | ||
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Nobody should want to lynch Marv yet. Wasn't the Marv rule invented for a reason? Please stop trying to lynch Marv. Lynch scum. Marv is not more scummy than Acro or Sinani. Lynch Acro and Sinani. They are scummers. Do it. Kill the scum! Cut their throats! Spill their Blood! | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
This is not a joke, this is for serious. If I could tell you exactly why, I would, but my role does not permit it. In other news, you just pointed out that Acro was pushing on Smurf, and I had a moment of clarity. There was no reason for a scum Acro to push a scum Smurf D1. I am dropping Acro for Smurf. You brought up his having a bullshit townread on prp. Let's talk about Smurf. | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
On March 30 2013 12:20 Keirathi wrote: But....Acro didn't push smurf on day 1. At all. :o He only started pushing him n1, after everyone had already started calling Smurf scum (and by everyone, I mean me, marv, and Hapa specifically because I didn't go back and read who else had started). Fuck, this is what I get for hitting the all button on his filter. | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On March 29 2013 03:55 InsertSmurfHere wrote: Town: Prplhz Hapa Palmar Oats OO Null: Rayn Marv Sinani SNB Mafia: Acro Dandel Ignore: Cora/Keir Yes, I'm going to ignore them. I'm suspicious of them, but do you really want me going around tomorrow making cases on Corazon, the claimed mason? Waste of time, even if I am right. No one is going to listen to me. The difference between Acro and prplhz is that you don't read prplhz by how "objectively scummy" he is, while you can certainly do that with a more active and engaged person like Acro. Meta matters more in prplhz' case. And yes, Dandel is possibly mafia. While it apparently isn't "satifying" to you, it's how I view him at this point, because of how little he's done since all of what went on. Did I not specifically tell you this might happen, should he not be put under pressure? Rayn did push OO, and that's about it. It was a hard push, but I'm nowhere near convinced that the guy is mafia. As you guys have been pointing out, a look into the last game he played as mafia gives you the impression that he struggles to post as mafia, which is nothing like the impression I get from his filter here. He is giving a clear effort, and is actually looking into objectively good things to be looking at, like the Nisani/Acro ordeal. | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
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ObviousOne
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ObviousOne
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+ Show Spoiler [acro case on ISH] + On March 28 2013 07:34 Acrofales wrote: Smurf: 3 particular things make him scum: 1. If Smurf is Yamato, he has played at least 2 games with a town DI (British 1 and Personality 2) and thus cannot simply claim ignorance of how DI plays as town. Even if he can be forgiven the remarkable oversight of not looking at DI's townplay, his excuse of ignorance here is a lie. 2. His scumreads: All 3 of his scumreads throughout the game:Grackaroni, Cora and Nisani. I painted Cora green, because I doubt this is a power play by the scumteam to claim mason. However, most strikingly, look how easily he jumps onto the Nisani is scum wagon. He never even mentions Nisani as a scumread until his completely irrational defense of prplhz (see point 3), when this suddenly happens: + Show Spoiler [prplhz town] + On March 27 2013 15:04 InsertSmurfHere wrote: It's quite easy. Read yamato's analysis of prplhz's meta from Nomination. When you look at his filter from LIX, it is blatantly antagonistic with town and completely uninvolved. Do these posts read trollish to you? Here he's clearly following a line of thought with a few people. While his interaction is minimal, it is far from being distant. This does not read like the mafia prplhz I know. What concerns me about all this is how lazy you are with this push on prplhz. I really think you don't know him well if you think low activity = scum in his case. What is MOST concerning, however, is how easily Nisani jumps in with you. Observe: Two posts, barely mentions prplhz, and he's on the wagon. Regardless of prplhz's alignment, this looks terrible. He's even less concerned with figuring out the game than prplhz appears to be. So... the MOST concerting part of the prplhz case is how easily Nisani jumps on the wagon. So suddenly Nisani has been bombarded to scum, as part of the whole prplhz = town crusade. From that point onwards he never even questions anything else and just blindly wants to lynch Nisani. 3. Irrational defense of prlhz. I would quote posts, but it shat up the thread for about 3 pages. I don't even think this says anything about prplhz's alignment. I can see a scum doing this for a townie (defend the innocent for townie points, when no scumbuddy is in danger of being lynched) or a scumbuddy (given that the alternative at the time was my push on Nisani, which he promptly sheeped he could have been defending his buddy), but the whole thing feels like Smurf had made up his mind before even starting to post on what prplhz's alignment was and was going to defend that stance to the death. And while some of the points he made make sense, when I looked at prplhz's filter at the time, it just read like a scum filter, so it's the complete lack of DOUBT about the alignment that strikes me. That is not the critical mindset of a townie. TLDR: lied to excuse his shoddy case, no critical mindset when analysing players and has only wanted to lynch townies. Verdict: scum. Now lets move onto everybody else. (okay, it's technically not d1) | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
On March 30 2013 13:13 Keirathi wrote: Neither of them were attacking each other day 1. Not sure what you're talking about Acro mentioned Smurf a few times early in day 1, but never followed up on it and never even called him scum, just questioned him a couple of times. Then during night 1, Acro made his case on Smurf, and then Smurf countered it and started pushing Acro. Yeah he was more certain on Nisani, so that looks like why he waited to move on to Smurf. + Show Spoiler [some quotes from smurf after D1 ended] + On March 29 2013 03:38 InsertSmurfHere wrote: Still don't like Keir/Cora, but whatever, Cora tunnels me all fucking day every fucking game, so I'll ignore them for the time being. It's lylo-type stuff anyway, with their claim and all. Acro smells like mafia. You can say his play is different from Personality, but his read on me is simply an echo of things people have said before at an opportune time to throw all kinds of suspicion on me in the midst of you calling for my head tomorrow. I want to look more into the Nisani/Acro ordeal and actually figure out what was going on there, because his town flip makes me more inclined to think Acro might actually be mafia who OMGUS'd a townie. You guys are talking a lot about SNB, and it is true that he is far less townish than I read him at a similar point in time during personality. I've never experienced scum SNB, but I'll take my look at some of those games out of curiosity when I have time later, and make my own decision. I am also taking an interest in rayn, because I'm not sure where his reads are at right now, and I feel like he's in a group of players who really didn't do a whole lot day 1 but push a single read and then consolidate with town in the end. Dandel looked better to me earlier, but his general disinterest in town's affairs and his lackadaisical mafia read of me concerns me. At first it felt like he was just OMGUSing me out of surprise, but he's stuck with it and not done much else, which is quite bad. Under no pressure, he fails to even engage in the thread beyond one-liners and calling me/snb scum, so the possibility exists that he is just lurky mafia riding off the back of everyone calling him likely-town in response to my case on him. And the one from before: On March 29 2013 03:55 InsertSmurfHere wrote: Town: Prplhz Hapa Palmar Oats OO Null: Rayn Marv Sinani SNB Mafia: Acro Dandel Ignore: Cora/Keir Yes, I'm going to ignore them. I'm suspicious of them, but do you really want me going around tomorrow making cases on Corazon, the claimed mason? Waste of time, even if I am right. No one is going to listen to me. The difference between Acro and prplhz is that you don't read prplhz by how "objectively scummy" he is, while you can certainly do that with a more active and engaged person like Acro. Meta matters more in prplhz' case. And yes, Dandel is possibly mafia. While it apparently isn't "satifying" to you, it's how I view him at this point, because of how little he's done since all of what went on. Did I not specifically tell you this might happen, should he not be put under pressure? Rayn did push OO, and that's about it. It was a hard push, but I'm nowhere near convinced that the guy is mafia. As you guys have been pointing out, a look into the last game he played as mafia gives you the impression that he struggles to post as mafia, which is nothing like the impression I get from his filter here. He is giving a clear effort, and is actually looking into objectively good things to be looking at, like the Nisani/Acro ordeal. Acro's post comes shortly after the flip, Smurfs a few hours before night was over. So let's look at Smurf's line of thinking on Acro. Distilled down he claims that Acro's vote can be summarized as OMGUS. Is that necessarily a mafia tell? Doesn't this also read like OMGUS? Smurf's read on prplhz in that second post is also wishy-washy on Dandel. So... I'm not convinced he believes either one is mafia. | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
And yes, Dandel is possibly mafia. While it apparently isn't "satifying" to you, it's how I view him at this point, because of how little he's done since all of what went on. Did I not specifically tell you this might happen, should he not be put under pressure? | ||
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ObviousOne
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ObviousOne
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ObviousOne
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On March 30 2013 13:50 Keirathi wrote: Ah okay. That makes sense. So you don't think Acro and Smurf are scum together, but you think Smurf is scum? Also, you still didn't comment on what I said about sinani, and since you're still voting for him I assume you still think he is scum. Replying from iPod so this will be short and I can embellish later. Your conclusion is that Sinani and Acro can't both be scum. Is that the crux of it? Between the three of them, why can't Acro just have lucky/smart reads and be the only town among them? Acro more likely to be town than Smurf. Unless I missed more of your case and that's not on purpose, it's because Apple product. | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
On March 30 2013 13:56 Keirathi wrote: EBWOP: Also, ignoring Smurf for a minute, what do you think about the points I laid out for why I think Acro is scum? I thought he was mafia since N1 up until something you wrote that caused me to reply and muck up the thread a bit when I confused the timeline on their accusations. I'm not saying he's definitely town but of the three he looks the least red. | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
1. He's been prodding at prplhz since the vote thing. On March 27 2013 04:30 sinani206 wrote: Really? Generally I wouldn't bring suspicion back this far, but if you have a three post filter at the beginning of day 1 and then ninja-vote halfway through the day, that's pretty suspicious. You could be in the middle of writing some really long analysis, but it's already been 40 minutes, so that's doubtful. What's up, man? prplhz responds to it reasonable: On March 27 2013 06:22 prplhz wrote: @Nisani201 How do you feel about that sinani206 guy? Somehow translates into some kind of fatal attack on sinani: On March 27 2013 06:28 sinani206 wrote: Question for you: what's your problem with me? Why blow this simple question out of proportion? Then he attempted to start a nothing-fight with me, like he's more interested in keeping tabs on the voting thread than in keeping up with the game: On March 28 2013 06:18 sinani206 wrote: OO ninja vote with 40 minutes left in the day ok. I did in fact post in the thread immediately after, and he dropped it just as quickly. Discouraging people discussing things at night... I just disagree with this completely and maybe it's the meta here that talking at night "gives mafia more information"? Maybe that should change. On March 29 2013 06:48 sinani206 wrote: Hapa, please stop encouraging people to post vital information at night time. We have 48 hours to discuss the next lynch. Like shit, it was what, 12 minutes to night post. Why even comment on it at this point? Day 2, back on the prplhz train. Calling him trolly. His insinuation that prplhz is somehow being useless to town is the epitome of hypocrisy. | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
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ObviousOne
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What about Acro? I still don't think that both Acro and Smurf are mafia together. | ||
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ObviousOne
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On March 30 2013 15:33 Hapahauli wrote: Fwiw, acro made his case after I expressed very strongly that Yamato needed to die today Am I wrong in thinking that both Acro and Smurf can't both be mafia? I'm opening back up to the idea they could be. | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
On March 30 2013 15:52 Keirathi wrote: I'm not trying to "win". I just want you to recognize the point that I was making. So, you looked over the filters. Now, where did Acro get the "I had a quick look at Sinani's town meta (think I only ever played with him as scum) and he seems more useful" sentiment from? Because I just don't see it. As far as Acro and Smurf being scum together...that's a harder one to answer. Yea, a mutual double bus is uncommon. But it is not completely unheard of (in recent memory, VE and Snarfs went after each other hard on day 1 of Nomination, iirc). There are some mitigating circumstances that make me think it is a possibility here, though. **  isclaimer: everything I'm about to say is in a hypothetical land where Acro and Smurf are both mafia.***So day 1 ends and night 1 starts. Thread sentiment is turning pretty heavily against Smurf. How should Acro react? Does he try to save his buddy, or does he hard bus for the town cred? Remember, Acro hasn't really been under any major suspicion up until this point. The biggest thing against him was how hard he was pushing for the Nisani mislynch, which isn't alignment indicative in itself. So, lets say Acro decides to bus. He throws the case out there after everyone is already calling Smurf mafia. Now, if Smurf realizes that he is more than likely going to die (hell, he has me, marv, Hapa, and now his scumbuddy Acro all pushing his case), what should he do in reaction? What helps the scum team out the most? Attacking the townies who are attacking him, attacking a random townie, or attacking his scumbuddy? It seems to me that it wouldn't be a bad play at all for him to OMGUS onto his scum buddy, because when Smurf does flip mafia, the people he spent a ton of time attacking inherently look better because of it. ***End disclaimer*** I'm not saying that is 100% how it happened or anything, but I think it is a reasonable line of thought. The alternative is so take one of them out of the vote today and wait for flips, but I'm honestly not sure which one I would take out, and who I would replace in. And I'm almost positive that there is at least one scum between the two of them. IF anything, Sinani looks "more useful" as scum in those few games he rolled mafia. | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
There's no way smurf is Vivax, I haven't once questioned his sanity. | ||
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ObviousOne
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ObviousOne
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I'm re-reading from after the Nisani lynch to see what sticks out to me so I'll get back to it eventually. Where in the sweet tits is Dandel? | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
I mean while we're entertaining stupid thoughts like lynching Marv we should take it to the max. Lol | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
On March 30 2013 22:02 Oatsmaster wrote: Also whats with all these confirming townies..... OO confirmed marv. Dandel confirmed OO. What. You just jelly I had no way to confirm you yet. | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
On March 30 2013 22:04 raynpelikoneet wrote: Maybe they are all scum? Haters. They gonna hate. | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
Fun game, lots of interesting roles. Probably could bump this up a few players and make it even more chaotic/fun! Thanks to Kurumi for being Polish and hosting. Thanks to everyone for an interesting game. | ||
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