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On March 29 2013 01:37 Hapahauli wrote:
You 'b repeating all my arguments 'n jazz marv.
You're all rehashing mine actually:
On March 28 2013 01:50 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 01:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Why smurf over OO? I get Nisani and i agree. I think OO is way more scummy than Smurf (who i think is scummy too). Much of the case you have against OO revolves around bad play but not necessarily scummy play. I also talked before about how I viewed his meta, so I won't rehash that. I don't necessarily see the problem with bringing up multiple targets. I wish he'd come back to the thread though. Smurf for the Dandel town-game stuff, and a rather overactive defence of prplhz. Has prplhz really played (or by then had played) a sufficiently townie game for Smurf to defend him so strongly? In addition that blue snipe comment is really off. Reminds me of a comment syllo made in Personality obsQT: + Show Spoiler +syllogism posted
03-17-2013
08:34 AM ET (US)
What Foolishness says is very useful whether his reads are correct or not. I mafia hunt by searching for posts that in some way "feel" off (it's often difficult to convincingly describe why they are off). Then I look at the rest of the filter to see if there's evidence reinforcing that idea or pointing the other way. Posts can also be suspicious because I know that the person in question isn't likely to actually believe that; this is easier if it's someone who I know well and even easier if it's someone who thinks like me.
I'm rarely confident in someone being mafia unless I can point to something specific. Contradictions, lack of in-thread mafia hunting and wrong reads can be evidence of someone being mafia, but if that's all I have, it feels basically a coinflip at best for me. I agree the Planting the Seed thing is somewhat weird too, I just don't think it's as weird as the blue snipe comment.
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Given that I was the guy arguing with Yamato at the time he posted his Dandel/Prplhz stuff... doubt it.
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Anyway, I wasn't aware this was some sort of competition. It can be "your" argument, if you'd like it to be <3
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w/e stupid argument
Talk to me about someone other than Yamato.
You said SnB is your other guy. What's scummy about him behaviorally? Anyone else you have an eye on?
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On March 29 2013 00:11 InsertSmurfHere wrote:Hey Acro, now that you're here, and I'm here, I want to talk to you about some things that I don't like in your "case" on me. Show nested quote +1. On March 26 2013 12:37 InsertSmurfHere wrote:
Is he an idiot as town, too?
From your filter, that is what I surmise is your opinion of him already. If that's the case, I guess you're content to let him lurk away the rest of day 1 as he intends?
Or...? If Smurf is Yamato, he has played at least 2 games with a town DI (British 1 and Personality 2) and thus cannot simply claim ignorance of how DI plays as town. Even if he can be forgiven the remarkable oversight of not looking at DI's townplay, his excuse of ignorance here is a lie. This is bullshit, and quite obviously evidence that you're not reading my filter. I specifically mentioned that I have not played with Dandel from the very beginning of the game, and that my experience with town Dandel is not that he's an idiot. If you looked into either of those games, you would realize that he was a replacement in both, and a troll in neither. Given this, how do you think that I'm lying? Show nested quote +2. His scumreads:
All 3 of his scumreads throughout the game:Grackaroni, Cora and Nisani. I painted Cora green, because I doubt this is a power play by the scumteam to claim mason. This is bullshit. By this metric, I could easily call Hapa or Palmar mafia, but I don't because it's fucking stupid. You're not this bad.
Except that Hapa has played about the towniest game out of anybody in the thread and I can't match the way Palmar is playing with the disinterested trolly Palmar when he's scum. Also, Hapa DIDN'T want to lynch Nisani, so why is he in this list. Rather, Marv should be there, and I have him on my scumdar.
Show nested quote +So... the MOST concerting part of the prplhz case is how easily Nisani jumps on the wagon. So suddenly Nisani has been bombarded to scum, as part of the whole prplhz = town crusade.
From that point onwards he never even questions anything else and just blindly wants to lynch Nisani. Yes, it was concerning. I openly questioned Hapa's motives with the prplhz thing, because I don't see how one who had done his research could see prplhz as mafia. But I give Hapa slack, because he's been wrong before. However, I won't give Nisani slack, even now as confirmed town, for mindlessly sheeping on the wagon without a second thought. That SEEMS to be what you're accusing me of, even though it wasn't, yet you can't seem to understand why I found it scummy from Nisani? Bullshit.
But he came out of nowhere. You suddenly bombarded him to your primary scumread. You didn't question him about it, you just instantly bombarded him to scum for ninjavoting. It feels like it was all a ploy to give extra weight to your whole prplhz defense thing, which still makes no sense.
Show nested quote +Irrational defense of prlhz. I would quote posts, but it shat up the thread for about 3 pages. I don't even think this says anything about prplhz's alignment. I can see a scum doing this for a townie (defend the innocent for townie points, when no scumbuddy is in danger of being lynched) or a scumbuddy (given that the alternative at the time was my push on Nisani, which he promptly sheeped he could have been defending his buddy), but the whole thing feels like Smurf had made up his mind before even starting to post on what prplhz's alignment was and was going to defend that stance to the death. And while some of the points he made make sense, when I looked at prplhz's filter at the time, it just read like a scum filter, so it's the complete lack of DOUBT about the alignment that strikes me. That is not the critical mindset of a townie. Total bullshit. "It just read like a scum filter"? What kind of "critical mindset" is that? You don't even bother to address the meta point that you say "make sense", you just blow them off as nothing, when in reality, THAT WAS THE WHOLE ARGUMENT. Yes, it shat up the thread. No, it gave me ZERO town cred, and how would it anyway? Most of town was null or against prplhz at that point, so who is giving me town cred for it besides prplhz, and how much is that town cred even worth? Really, this is pathetic. What's even more pathetic is that these are the arguments that people have against me, and that they're all based upon ridiculous assumptions like the ones you've made here.
Addressed in full in my previous post.
But really, I want to talk about you, Acro, because this case is just a little too perfectly timed. What about the Nisani flip makes you any more ready to call me mafia than before? Why didn't you bring this up before the lynch, when it was all still relevant? Or are you just using the pathetically stupid and lazy idea that my being on Nisani's wagon is evidence of me being mafia? Because if that's the case, THERE ARE TWELVE OTHER PEOPLE who voted him with me, you included, and most of them after me.
One such person is Marv, but I'll get to him when I'm done with you.
The timing is quite obvious: my prime scumspect was lynched and flipped town, so I was obviously wrong and had to reread filters. I started with yours, because you had been floating around my scumdar the whole game. I simply had to reread it to realize why you were scum. Also, your vote on Nisani was pretty terrible. I trust that out of the 12 other people, all of your scumbuddies are there too, but not all votes are equal and yours sticks out as particularly scummy. You hadn't mentioned him before, you never pressured him, or pushed him afterwards, you just voted and then continued your prplhz is town diatribe. You question people about Nisani and say you want to "convince" them, but not once do I see anything ever again that convinces anybody about anything. Never once do I get the feeling you even really thought about Nisani, rather than just deciding he was scum at a time it was convenient for you.
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On March 29 2013 01:43 Hapahauli wrote:
w/e stupid argument
Talk to me about someone other than Yamato.
You said SnB is your other guy. What's scummy about him behaviorally? Anyone else you have an eye on?
I had s&b as null because there was one thing I liked - his decent activity.
There are three things I dislike about his play, the third being his apathy towards the lynch. The other two are:
1) his repeated, and I mean oft-repeated, insistence that prplhz was spamming up the game with contentless posts in literally the first 4 posts of the game. At first I thought he was just being silly, but the fact he stuck to it when it was so patently ridiculous makes me think of it as a mafia sticking to his guns stupidly.
2) his attack on Dandel for being spammy. It served absolutely no purpose whatsoever. It was lecturing for "pro-town" purposes while doing absolutely jack for town. It was really out of place and unnecessary. Does anyone really feel Dandel is preventing them from reading the game properly? I don't think so.
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Anyone else null/scummy right now? Normally I'd be alright with you waiting until the deadline, but it doesn't seem like you're a likely NK.
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sinani looks worse by default.
Palmar looks bad for his apathy towards the lynch. It's something else I'd have to check, but I don't actually recall a single reason he gave for thinking sinani was mafia while Nisani was town. They were just reasonless reads pulled out of thin air.
Plus I have townreads on you & Acro which makes me think worse of him automatically.
I need to re-look at reyn/prplhz/OO I guess, but they're all getting more useful as the game goes on, and not less useful, so I don't know where that will take me.
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On March 29 2013 01:56 marvellosity wrote:
sinani looks worse by default.
Palmar looks bad for his apathy towards the lynch. It's something else I'd have to check, but I don't actually recall a single reason he gave for thinking sinani was mafia while Nisani was town. They were just reasonless reads pulled out of thin air.
Plus I have townreads on you & Acro which makes me think worse of him automatically.
I need to re-look at reyn/prplhz/OO I guess, but they're all getting more useful as the game goes on, and not less useful, so I don't know where that will take me.
How does a town-read on Acro have anything to do with Sinani? Acro was one of the guys championing the Nisani lynch.
Also... Palmar. You've played with him more than most, so why is he scummy rather than lazy? He was thinking incredibly similarly to me around the deadline, which makes me lean town on him. Also I don't get the sense that he's faking contribution or trying to appease the town, which is more normal with his scum-games.
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Also SnB is kinda in a weird boat for me. Generally his scum-play is more constructed, and his town play is a lot more random and spammy. In this game, he's kinda in the middle.
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On March 29 2013 02:00 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2013 01:56 marvellosity wrote:
sinani looks worse by default.
Palmar looks bad for his apathy towards the lynch. It's something else I'd have to check, but I don't actually recall a single reason he gave for thinking sinani was mafia while Nisani was town. They were just reasonless reads pulled out of thin air.
Plus I have townreads on you & Acro which makes me think worse of him automatically.
I need to re-look at reyn/prplhz/OO I guess, but they're all getting more useful as the game goes on, and not less useful, so I don't know where that will take me. How does a town-read on Acro have anything to do with Sinani? Acro was one of the guys championing the Nisani lynch. Also... Palmar. You've played with him more than most, so why is he scummy rather than lazy? He was thinking incredibly similarly to me around the deadline, which makes me lean town on him. Also I don't get the sense that he's faking contribution or trying to appease the town, which is more normal with his scum-games.
It has nothing to do with sinani, that's not what I said.
And I just said why I find him suspicious. I disagree with your interpretation. He just didn't care. He decided to question Kei on his mason mechanics at a really weird time. I got incensed with it, and
On March 28 2013 06:16 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 06:15 marvellosity wrote:On March 28 2013 06:13 Palmar wrote:
So they're masons that are confirmed town to each other. Can you recruit into your mason circle? hell explain your role in detail now that it's out there anyway
no, that's totally irrelevant right now. We have 45 minutes to decide the lynch. chill out dude we'll just lynch one of the nisinanis
who gives a shit which we lynch right?
You gave actual reasons over a sustained period of time why you wanted to lynch sinani. Can you say the same about Palmar?
I actually characterise your play and his play around the lynch as diametrically opposite.
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On March 29 2013 02:03 Hapahauli wrote:
Also SnB is kinda in a weird boat for me. Generally his scum-play is more constructed, and his town play is a lot more random and spammy. In this game, he's kinda in the middle.
yes, I thought so during the first Day or 2 of Chrono as well (I was using literally that metric) and I was proved wrong. Of course that's mostly because his activity dropped off a cliff in that game past a certain point.
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Oh I forgot about Chrono. That's a really good point.
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Can you talk about your town-read on Acro a bit? I'm giving him some activity points no doubt, but I haven't read any of his scumgames.
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On March 29 2013 02:10 Hapahauli wrote:
Can you talk about your town-read on Acro a bit? I'm giving him some activity points no doubt, but I haven't read any of his scumgames.
I played mafia with him in Personality and he was very measured throughout. He's both more active here and has better thought out points. Most of all, though, he had what I view as a really really stupid, sustained argument whenever it was on Day 1, which was the very opposite of measured. Frankly I think he was being silly, and when he's silly (e.g. Adam is 3P in Duel, his relentless attack on me in MTG 2) he's more likely to be town. There wasn't one occasion like that argument in Personality.
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EBWOP *stupid, sustained argument with me
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Can you give me some context about scum-Acro's said "stupid, sustained argument"?
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On March 29 2013 02:10 Hapahauli wrote:
Can you talk about your town-read on Acro a bit? I'm giving him some activity points no doubt, but I haven't read any of his scumgames.
I've played a fair bit of scum. The most recent is probably the most relevant (Personality 2), but LVI is probably also fairly representative, although it was before quite a long streak of town games, in which I think my play generally improved.
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On March 29 2013 02:16 Hapahauli wrote:
Can you give me some context about scum-Acro's said "stupid, sustained argument"?
no, you mis-read, or I mistype. When Acro is silly (MTG, Duel) he's town. When there's a complete absence of such emotion and only measuredness, he was mafia (Personality). Here he had a massive long argument with me over OO's meta, which I've put in the silly thus town column.
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EPT
