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@Viscera:
On March 21 2013 05:32 VisceraEyes wrote:
Whatever I'm ignoring everything everyone says, making supercases and will post them up before the lynch. Hopefully they'll be of use to town when I flip. But please consider lynching into Wiggles, Ryu, Wade Fell, Darth Punk in my absence.
Care to share your "supercases" with us?
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On March 21 2013 09:46 Ace wrote:
Vivax, you aren't going to get support for a Coag lynch right now. Let a vigi handle it or leave it for tomorrow. We need to solve 1 problem at a time, not derail wagons.
Says the guy trying to derail a Wiggles wagon.
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On March 21 2013 09:46 goodkarma wrote:@Viscera:Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 05:32 VisceraEyes wrote:
Whatever I'm ignoring everything everyone says, making supercases and will post them up before the lynch. Hopefully they'll be of use to town when I flip. But please consider lynching into Wiggles, Ryu, Wade Fell, Darth Punk in my absence. Care to share your "supercases" with us?
Later. I'm at work right now.
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On March 21 2013 09:41 Vivax wrote:
It's so easy to find people scummy who contribute when there are guys playing so obviously anti-town or trolling or invisible that you don't want to lynch them.
"The vigs will settle it" is not a valid attitude. Imagine if you have a whole bunch of such guys but not a vig for each one of them, which will likely be the case in most games. It doesn't look like we have vigs anyway,so it's in our hands.
Let's teach this kind of people how to play the game plz
Unvote
Vote: Coagulation
Yeah well unless your going to convince the entire town that im a good lynch (heres a clue its not gonna happen) then your pretty much abstaining from voting with your vote there. I may not "contribute" as much as some of you heavy posters but I sure as fuck dont throw my votes in the garbage.
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On March 21 2013 09:41 Vivax wrote:
It's so easy to find people scummy who contribute when there are guys playing so obviously anti-town or trolling or invisible that you don't want to lynch them.
"The vigs will settle it" is not a valid attitude. Imagine if you have a whole bunch of such guys but not a vig for each one of them, which will likely be the case in most games. It doesn't look like we have vigs anyway,so it's in our hands.
Let's teach this kind of people how to play the game plz
Unvote
Vote: Coagulation
This is actually exactly what I was referring to earlier. You avoid the major candidates of the day and make a case against someone who you know won't be lynched! There's literally no pressure on Coagulation, so why bother voting for him? This entire game you have been pushing unlikely lynch candidates and I am becoming more and more suspicious -> it seems to me like you are trying to appear as if you are contributing to the discussion.
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On March 21 2013 09:19 TestSubject893 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 09:03 DoYouHas wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 21 2013 08:54 TestSubject893 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 08:44 DoYouHas wrote:On March 21 2013 07:59 TestSubject893 wrote:I want to apologize for my inactivity. Since I was last active I was shortly in the hospital and had to unexpectedly drive my sister across the state. I've got some things to say after my 30-page-read-a-thon.
1. So like 30 bajillion people claimed. WoS did so in just about the scummiest way possible and if he is town needs to think a little bit before acting that way next time. It seems to me we have no choice but to believe him for now, but if a scum were going to fake claim to save themselves WoS's claim is about as good as it gets for scum.
2. VE was on the scum list for me before any of this stuff went down, but something about his interactions with "The Mirror" just doesn't add up. I think the most likely scenario if that he is some form of anti-town and we've caught him in a lie. No matter what's actually going on, I don't think we have much choice but to kill him today. ##Vote: VisceraEyes
3. I find the fact that my inactivity caused BH to be less suspicious of me a huge scum tell for him. All game long I was in his top 2 for scum and then all of the sudden the time comes that he has to justify his reasoning and I'm no longer there. Its clear that he chose his targets before he came up with his reasoning and this makes no sense as town. BH is scum. Town BH is too talented to peg someone as scum for disagreeing with them on a single point during day 1. I'm sure BH will rebut this point by pointing out how he's listed me since then and tell us all about how my inactivity is scummy, but none of those are excuses for having me in his top 2 scum all of D1 without being able to back it up. If he were a sincere town player he'd have been able to make a case on me to back those feelings up from D1 alone, but he couldn't even muster a paragraph. 1. - WoS's claim is the scummiest claim possible. 2 sentences later, it is about as good as it gets for scum. Either we have two very different interpretations as to what those things mean, or you just said that WoS's claim is both very bad and very good, barely a breath apart. Not to mention the ridiculously begrudging language you are using to describe believing the claim. Strike 1. Apparently my wording is unclear. "WoS's claim is the scummiest claim possible." and "as good as it gets for scum." both mean the same thing to me. WoS's claim was summy. I use begrudging language, because it reflects my begrudging acceptance.... I'm not sure any of this counts against me in any way.... Show nested quote +2. - VE was on the scum list? Go into that more please. What originally caught your eye about VE? Did you have an opinion on cosmic's case? Who else besides VE and BH are on this scumlist? Does it bother you that the person you are voting for was tunneling your most consistent scumread (BH) for the better part of a day?
You seem to agree with me about 'The Mirror' not adding up. Why would you state your 'most likely' scenario without even referring to the extended conversation VE and I just had about possible explanations. Again you use the phrase 'no choice' as if you want no part in the blame for the VE lynch if it happens. YOU THINK that the most likely scenario has VE as an anti-town role, YOU cast your vote. Justify it, explain your logic, lead us in your thinking. If you have a most likely scenario, that means you considered less likely scenarios. What were they? by what criteria did you dismiss them? Strike 2.
I talk about this a here: Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 12:52 TestSubject893 wrote:
VE made himself look pretty bad and has moved himself to a solid scumread in my book with his comments about town not being able to vote to influence behavior. I refuse to believe he has such a fundamental misunderstanding of the game that he believes that to be true. It took him 40 pages to respond to DP's repeated questioning about that post and his logic has been inconsistent throughout the game. Show nested quote +3. - You have a huge scum tell on BH, this scum tell is that he hasn't been consistently referring to you in his top scum reads while you essentially haven't been playing the game. This is your only reasoning. This isn't a case, this doesn't convince anyone you are right that are not already thinking BH is scum. You want to take the firm stance on BH, but you don't want to do the work, that is scummy. Strike 3.
No, the post I reference happened during night one. I had not been inactive very long at that point. And even if I had, my point still stands. He had me as his top read day 1 and can't justify it. Ok, so I am guilty of the lazy case making in this instance (which by extension I can't get butt hurt about Coag's comment). However, I very much would like you to answer my questions and explain yourself on each of your sections much more thoroughly. Show me just how wrong I am. I can answer the questions, but I'm not sure what else you want. I feel that I already showed you were wrong, lol. I liked it. He makes some good points Zare and GK aren't looking great in my eyes. Geript was on there at one point but has moved back toward null since. Show nested quote +Does it bother you that the person you are voting for was tunneling your most consistent scumread (BH) for the better part of a day? Yes, but there's some a possibility that they are both anti-town but on different factions, so its not the end of the world. I'll reevaluate as new information becomes available, no need to blindly speculate now.
You didn't show me I was wrong, you showed me I made a bad case. The questions are about getting you to explain your thoughts. I want your reasons as much as I want your conclusions. Those lack of details is why I jumped all over you.
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+ Show Spoiler +On March 21 2013 09:48 TranceStorm wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 09:41 Vivax wrote:
It's so easy to find people scummy who contribute when there are guys playing so obviously anti-town or trolling or invisible that you don't want to lynch them.
"The vigs will settle it" is not a valid attitude. Imagine if you have a whole bunch of such guys but not a vig for each one of them, which will likely be the case in most games. It doesn't look like we have vigs anyway,so it's in our hands.
Let's teach this kind of people how to play the game plz
Unvote
Vote: Coagulation This is actually exactly what I was referring to earlier. You avoid the major candidates of the day and make a case against someone who you know won't be lynched! There's literally no pressure on Coagulation, so why bother voting for him? This entire game you have been pushing unlikely lynch candidates and I am becoming more and more suspicious -> it seems to me like you are trying to appear as if you are contributing to the discussion.
It's much easier for scum to look like they're contributing when they make cases on players most of the thread believes to be scum, since others will find it easier to agree with their cases and hence see them positively.
And if scum gets attacked while doing so, the attackers will look like they are attacking the lynch wagon as well, which will attract a lot of attention.
You are putting things backwards here. I am contributing to people that most of the thread doesn't seem to care about, and that's what you need usually instead of a blob of collective confirmation bias on single players.
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today im busy but I want to bring attention to Vivax later, maybe for tomorrow's lynch. I was never alright with his presence and some of the posts like this
On March 21 2013 09:41 Vivax wrote:
It's so easy to find people scummy who contribute when there are guys playing so obviously anti-town or trolling or invisible that you don't want to lynch them.
"The vigs will settle it" is not a valid attitude. Imagine if you have a whole bunch of such guys but not a vig for each one of them, which will likely be the case in most games. It doesn't look like we have vigs anyway,so it's in our hands.
Let's teach this kind of people how to play the game plz
Unvote
Vote: Coagulation
really just sets me off. He was just talking about how VE is scum and he takes his vote off and puts it on coag. Plus, his motive is because coag is being a pile of shit. Ok, but this doesn't line up with your preference of lynching a surefire scum over 3rd party and coag? You dont really say hes scummy, just hes annoying as shit.
On March 21 2013 08:37 Vivax wrote:
Don't think TestSubject is scum, I like his early contributions. But I agree that the read isn't too reliable cause I have to go with so few, that only means that he has just commited himself to posting more in the future.
Please stop spamming the thread and put huge quotes in spoilers thanks. You doing conversation like that only makes you both look like idiots and doesn't get anyone lynched.
/moderation
While I think VE is 3p by now I think we should try to hit scum today, but w/e
also notice how he talks about Testsubject but says nothing about him. "Oh hey guys, Testsubject.. yeah i dont think hes scummy but dont listen to me i might be wrong"
......
Im going to continue some other time.
yeah im busy so sorry for lack of participation, i realize a lot has been said and i can follow up and ill do it for the next day cycle. i have a surprise exam soon also ><
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if someone wants to look into Vivax for me, go for it. I do not have a solid read on BH and VE cause they are incredibly difficult to read (they sway in persona every game from my experiences). However, VE is a better lynchbet cause he does offer a bit of information i'd say.
unvote: goodkarma
vote: Vivax
ps: zarepath, you dont look all too hot with that post you mentioned me ^^
+ Show Spoiler [i bolded this load of crap by mistake…] +On March 21 2013 02:23 zarepath wrote:
Kenpachi has completely disappeared, which is odd considering this:
On March 19 2013 07:08 Kenpachi wrote:
I'm personally not very comfortable not getting any limelight, good or bad lol
TestSubject has been completely AFK ever since he voted for GreyMist, save for this post, so look for his contributions soon:
On March 20 2013 11:28 TestSubject893 wrote:
Hey guys, sorry I've been really inactive. I had a couple of things come up that have been taking up a lot of my time. I'm like 20 pages behind but am going to catch up right now.
glurio's last post is calling WoS scum, and since the Eye claim, glurio's said nothing. I want to know if he believes WoS's claim and who his scum reads are now.
Cosmicomics' last post looked pretty scummy, and his VE case seemed absurd to me:
On March 20 2013 13:47 cosmicomics wrote:
WaveofShadow, could you tone down on the swearing please? It can turn people off (including townies), which will in turn fuel this bandwagon against you, and the worst kind of wagon is one where it is town pushed.
I think it would be most beneficial to everyone if you could consolidate your posting and present your defense against kita's main case. Or build a strong case of your own on somebody. Because right now it is getting more difficult to read you and you are giving scum / good intentioned townies more fuel.
I'll be looking over your meta, the case and the posts in interest in the meantime.
Mr. Wiggles still has no new reads except for WoS, and he hasn't reacted at all to WoS's blue claim.
RyuSuzaku hasn't done anything since his N1 reads on VE, TranceStorm, and glurio.
Of all of these, I like cosmicomics the most as a lynch. He hasn't done much, and the things he's done lack follow-through -- he made the poor VE case and never spoke of it again, he showed up to tell WoS to quit being a baby after everyone else was already on WoS, and hasn't said anything about WoS again after that. He looks like scum to me.
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Kenpachi did you actually read the thread or just the last pages?
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ill admit, i got a general gist of it to stay up to topic so briefly read it but didn't go too much into anything.
Oh ya, wiggles was another hot topic for good reason. He's also a tricky dude to understand when he's scum because he very illusive as an experienced mafia player (Hes mafia every game) and I don't get a particularly good vibe of him. I have very limited experience with him being town so I have nothing to compare my vibe to. However, I don't like that in our conversation, all he proposed was a questionnaire so think about it. I generally think a barrage of questions is a shitty attempt to enter into the townie blend so FoS on him too.
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On March 21 2013 10:07 Kenpachi wrote:
ill admit, i got a general gist of it to stay up to topic so briefly read it but didn't go too much into anything.
Oh ya, wiggles was another hot topic for good reason. He's also a tricky dude to understand when he's scum because he very illusive as an experienced mafia player (Hes mafia every game) and I don't get a particularly good vibe of him. I have very limited experience with him being town so I have nothing to compare my vibe to. However, I don't like that in our conversation, all he proposed was a questionnaire so think about it. I generally think a barrage of questions is a shitty attempt to enter into the townie blend so FoS on him too.
Vote for Wiggles if you feel that way, he's the only other person with a chance of being lynched today. WTF Ken?
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On March 21 2013 09:54 Vivax wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 21 2013 09:48 TranceStorm wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 09:41 Vivax wrote:
It's so easy to find people scummy who contribute when there are guys playing so obviously anti-town or trolling or invisible that you don't want to lynch them.
"The vigs will settle it" is not a valid attitude. Imagine if you have a whole bunch of such guys but not a vig for each one of them, which will likely be the case in most games. It doesn't look like we have vigs anyway,so it's in our hands.
Let's teach this kind of people how to play the game plz
Unvote
Vote: Coagulation This is actually exactly what I was referring to earlier. You avoid the major candidates of the day and make a case against someone who you know won't be lynched! There's literally no pressure on Coagulation, so why bother voting for him? This entire game you have been pushing unlikely lynch candidates and I am becoming more and more suspicious -> it seems to me like you are trying to appear as if you are contributing to the discussion. It's much easier for scum to look like they're contributing when they make cases on players most of the thread believes to be scum, since others will find it easier to agree with their cases and hence see them positively. And if scum gets attacked while doing so, the attackers will look like they are attacking the lynch wagon as well, which will attract a lot of attention. You are putting things backwards here. I am contributing to people that most of the thread doesn't seem to care about, and that's what you need usually instead of a blob of collective confirmation bias on single players.
Let's think of the game from a scum perspective. Scum want to remain 'under the radar' throughout the game. Therefore, you're presumption is incorrect because even though "others will find it easier to agree with their cases and hence see them positively" on the day of the lynch, being on the mislynch train is incredibly suspicious the following day.
Hence, one approach that a mafia player could take is to make lots of cases against a couple of relatively scummy players who don't have much pressure on them and to avoid getting involved in lynches entirely by parking their votes on people who definitely won't get lynched. I'm reasonably certain that you are following this approach.
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also his questions feigned usefulness. They didnt actually provide anything useful despite their objective tone. Also, he revealed halfheartedness when he just strayed away from the questionnaire after my last response so theres a lack of concern in Wiggles which makes me inclined to believe he is suspicious
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VE in the case you're really town: Thanks for screwing the whole day up with your stunts. There's no information whatsoever we will be able to gain from that uniform vote tally, and scum knows exactly what to do and nothing is hindering them from doing it.
Would have preferred you to cut out the "I accept" although it would have been somewhat lying, but I recognize that it's something that actually puts you into more favourable light, I can't persuade people on my own however.
Kenpachi please read the whole thread before you accuse someone of being scum. Your vote on me is completely unreasonable. If you gotta vote for someone while low on information then lynch-vig someone like Coag. Not much you can do wrong, it's win-win for town.
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i think it's pretty reasonable. Ill get you tomorrow!
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Here's my major issue with VE, if I were given the same shot then I would completely be trying to pump the guy for information. I don't see that at all. I can understand trying the 'accept ploy' but there's still too much risk of him being 3P and he's not dropping those cases with enough time for us to pick through them critically. The 'accept ploy' is reasonable but I see no reason not to try to push for a more clear 'offer.' VE is apparently a prolific claimer; the vig claim, this mirror stuff. However the major advantage bringing this stuff forward brings IMO is that if he lasts the day, he likely gets a mostly free pass from town for 2-3 days minimum. That could easily be 8-12 deaths; that's more than enough time to become unlynchable or in the least give him a real upper hand in negotiations. Added to that fact, there was only 1 kill last night. VE claimed a hit and the 3P ability is to have countermeasures for survival. That sounds like an ability to dodge hits. I'm on my phone, but the edits to remove the time stamps make it even fishier in my book. I just don't see he this gets dismissed as 'not a VE' ploy with all the stuff he's apparently pulled.
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It's not a stunt Vivax what the FUCK?! I'm JUST TRYING TO PLAY TRANSPARENTLY AND I GET SHIT ON FOR IT THIS IS FUCKING DUMB
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+ Show Spoiler +On March 21 2013 10:11 TranceStorm wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 09:54 Vivax wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 21 2013 09:48 TranceStorm wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 09:41 Vivax wrote:
It's so easy to find people scummy who contribute when there are guys playing so obviously anti-town or trolling or invisible that you don't want to lynch them.
"The vigs will settle it" is not a valid attitude. Imagine if you have a whole bunch of such guys but not a vig for each one of them, which will likely be the case in most games. It doesn't look like we have vigs anyway,so it's in our hands.
Let's teach this kind of people how to play the game plz
Unvote
Vote: Coagulation This is actually exactly what I was referring to earlier. You avoid the major candidates of the day and make a case against someone who you know won't be lynched! There's literally no pressure on Coagulation, so why bother voting for him? This entire game you have been pushing unlikely lynch candidates and I am becoming more and more suspicious -> it seems to me like you are trying to appear as if you are contributing to the discussion. It's much easier for scum to look like they're contributing when they make cases on players most of the thread believes to be scum, since others will find it easier to agree with their cases and hence see them positively. And if scum gets attacked while doing so, the attackers will look like they are attacking the lynch wagon as well, which will attract a lot of attention. You are putting things backwards here. I am contributing to people that most of the thread doesn't seem to care about, and that's what you need usually instead of a blob of collective confirmation bias on single players. Let's think of the game from a scum perspective. Scum want to remain 'under the radar' throughout the game. Therefore, you're presumption is incorrect because even though "others will find it easier to agree with their cases and hence see them positively" on the day of the lynch, being on the mislynch train is incredibly suspicious the following day. Hence, one approach that a mafia player could take is to make lots of cases against a couple of relatively scummy players who don't have much pressure on them and to avoid getting involved in lynches entirely by parking their votes on people who definitely won't get lynched. I'm reasonably certain that you are following this approach.
No, being on the mislynch wagon with a load of other townies is no risk for them. Each of the townies on the wagon can't accuse them of that without accusing themselves, and outside townies can't accuse them without accusing other townies, it's the perfect example of blending in.
You can be accused of your reasons to switch to it/join it, but not of pushing it or being on it.
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btw, 1 last disclaimer before i leave. If VE is indeed scum by some odd chance (he can be scum i believe lol) Vivax, you're off the hook. I would never buss VE + Show Spoiler +(WELL TOADESSTERN WOULD ........)
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EPT
