The Game [N] - Page 6

On March 20 2013 04:53 cosmicomics wrote:
I don't understand why we are scrutinizing Wade Fell and not even glancing over at VisceraEyes.


There is nothing wrong with defending town reads who are potential lynch candidates. To say that "all he's done" is defend goodkarma may be true, but this point doesn't take into full consideration the context of the action. Many people were discussing goodkarma and deciding whether he should be the lynch or not, he himself included.



There should be absolutely no issue with Wade Fell defending whom he thinks is a town read, unless VisceraEyes suspects that both goodkarma and Wade Fell are scum, and that Wade Fell is defending goodkarma using fabricated evidence. Nothing in VisceraEyes' case indicates that he believes this, so there is no town alibi for saying this. Not only that, but a glance at Wade Fell's filter shows his interaction with TestSubject893 and ThePeashooter, which VisceraEyes totally ignores, even though earlier on in the day he acknowledges' one of Wade Fell's posts on ThePeashooter.



You don't say that someone makes an excellent point, and then totally ignore it when evaluating their play. But that is what VisceraEyes tries to do. He sweeps away something that he himself called "an excellent point" and misconstrues Wade Fell as wasting all his time D1 defending goodkarma, which isn't even scum indicative as his posting shows. Additionally you can see in this post that VisceraEyes drops his initial case on goodkarma. The vote switch indicates that whatever point Wade Fell brought up was strong enough to pursue than his original case on goodkarma. Therefore, the magnitude of VisceraEyes' misinterpretation is greater for he is a hypocrite in saying that Wade Fell did nothing, when he himself asserts that Wade Fell made an excellent point.



Again, more misinformation. Here VisceraEyes tries to push the idea that Wade Fell's usage of the mason role is indicative of him being scum. He asserts that the mason role should be used to determine alignment first and foremost. Well that's blatantly wrong. There is nothing wrong, and in fact there is something very valuable with masoning a town read in order to bounce around thoughts and ideas. Wade Fell himself explains his mason choice:


How is that not a sensible response? It helps Wade Fell solidify his read on goodkarma, and also helps direct goodkarma's scumhunting as Wade Fell acted as his coach. There is very good townie motivations to mason a town read. However VisceraEyes tries to push the idea that Wade Fell used his role poorly and therefore must be scum. Let's explore that next.



Ok. VisceraEyes' hypothesis is that Wade Fell is a scum mason trying to manipulate townies. Where in this post does VisceraEyes consider goodkarma as scum? He doesn't. Let me hash that out again. In the starting sections of my post I demonstrated that VisceraEyes considered goodkarma scum. Additionally he disparaged Wade Fell's play in defending goodkarma (another contradiction), but now he is trying to push Wade Fell as scum on the basis that he is masoning goodkarma, which is one of his town reads? How is Wade Fell masoning goodkarma supporting evidence that Wade Fell is a scum mason attempting to manipulate townies? It isn't. VisceraEyes is getting muddled up in his pile of lies. Either you think goodkarma is town and that Wade Fell's mason choice was to manipulate him, or you think goodkarma is scum and that Wade Fell fake masoned a scum partner. What VisceraEyes is doing is calling both goodkarma and Wade Fell scum, and using "town goodkarma" as evidence of Wade Fell scum. Only scum do this.




So VisceraEyes admits himself that his case seems weak without the mason logs. However, once Wade Fell releases the mason logs, he doesn't talk about the content at all! If the strongest body of evidence comes from the mason logs, and they were released, wouldn't you go in and use that as evidence to convince people that Wade Fell is scum? Well VisceraEyes doesn't, because there is nothing that alignment telling in there. He himself says Wade Fell doesn't push his ideas in the QT but he himself presents very flimsy contributions himself. Where is his push of DarthPunk? He called him scummy all D1, left his vote on DarthPunk and checked out, and has picked up some new targets.



No more comments on DarthPunk. No more comments on goodkarma. Just hopping along wagons when he can, and dropping them without explanation. His original case on DarthPunk was very shoddy. Additionally is the nonsense about him taking a hit.

On March 20 2013 08:54 kitaman27 wrote:
Finally have some spare time. I'll respond to a couple relavent issues, but first I wanted to get out a post on one of my strongest scum reads. I may have a second post about another player I'm suspicious of, depending on how much time I have.

WaveofShadow

The first player I'd like to bring up is WaveofShadow. Whenever I try to look at a player, the most important thing to look at in my opinion is motive. During the first few cycles of a game, it can be quite difficult to differentiate a townie post and a mafia post. The easiest way to tell the difference is to ask yourself, what is a player trying to accomplish with these posts and what does this player care most about. When I read through the filter of Wave, I can't help but notice that he is much more willing to play through others, than to put himself out there. On numerous occasions, we can see him prodding other players with questions, but there has been very little follow through. He questions other players reads, but fails to come to significant conclusions.

Wave has approached the first two cycles in a way that shows me that he has little interest in being the guy that gets a player lynched. He is more interested in selecting a bandwagon based on the arguments of other players. In his support for the day one lynch, he posts the following:



This is the first time in the game he actually mentions Darthpunk. He states in a single line that he supports VE's case, yet provides no reasoning for why he agrees. Notice how defensive he gets with his vote. In reference to his disapproval of VE's circle he states "Call that scummy if you wish." At a point where he has selected his preferred lynch candidate, he is still spending more time discussing VE's completely irrelevant circle. For the sake of keeping this post legible, I've edited out the previous part of this quote, but he spends a whole paragraph discussing the deal with yamato. Why is it that he is spending more time discussing events not relevant to his scumread, than the actual vote itself?

It would be one thing if VE's case was so convincing that he had nothing to add. However, when I ask myself, does he care about this lynch, I come to the conclusion that he does not.



DarthPunk is his preferred lynch candidate, but at this point he has put absolutely no effort in pushing his selection. He is more than willing to comment on unrelated issues, but when it comes to the part of the game that should be most relevant, he shows little interest. This post shows me that his scum read is influenced by whether or not he believes the town views it as a viable lynch. When a mafia player selects a bandwagon, they often due it based on where the town's sentiment lies. Once he realizes that DarthPunk isn't going to get lynched, he backs off, simply stating that he has responded well to pressure.









Back to my point about his "defensive" phrasing of his vote, he has been acting quite defensive during the first two cycles. While a town player plays with confidence, Wave seems quite careful with his actions and is quite concerned with other's view of himself. Look how important it is to him for others to realize his meta based scum-hunting skills are sub-par. On four different occasions he makes this statement.



In response to suspicion, he reacts quite strangely. Look how worked up he gets when GM names him as a scum read. There is essentially no pressure or votes on him at this point, yet he is responding as if he is about to be hammered.





These are more examples of how important it is to him that he is seen in good light. Note how he has spent more time talking about his annoyance of getting suspected, than he does about DarthPunk earlier. His vote of GreYMisT also occurred at a time where GreYMisT was suspicious of him.



Finally, I come to this post which is what caused me to look at him further. Look how squirmish he is in his response. This is at a point where he accidentally mentioned to a lynch, rather than a night kill. It was a 100% typo and a non-issue. Yet here is his talking about how his has to be more careful about not making mistakes and coming up with more excuses.

Wave has show that he cares more about himself, than town. He is willing to share opinions on less important issues, while skimping in pushing town objectives when it comes to the lynch. He responds in a mafia manner to suspicion and posts with an attitude that lacks the look of a town player. I think he would make an excellent lynch today.

On March 19 2013 15:59 WaveofShadow wrote:
Because you were talking about the logs and Geript a lot in the same post. Sorry it wasn't clear to me.
If I had to say one way the other I'd lean town on BH. The differences people have been coming up with in the thread don't seem that big to me, and I'm certainly not 100% of VE's scumclaim against him.

On March 19 2013 16:01 sciberbia wrote:
And here are people I think have a decent chance of being scum:
geript
WoS
BH
glurio
zarapeth
trancestorm
cosmicomics

On March 19 2013 16:02 WaveofShadow wrote:
Aside from BH, I see a common theme in your scum list, that is, players who either have barely contributed or could be seen as newbies.

I don't like it, and not just because I'm included.

On March 20 2013 05:26 WaveofShadow wrote:

This confused me a little VE. Do you not know what your role does?
It seemed odd when you were claiming too:

And then right after you state it's because you're Vet. Explain?

On March 20 2013 09:41 WaveofShadow wrote:
Oh and kita, cute case.
I defy you to go through my meta and find something I've done differently this game than any of my others. I have never once lied in a mafia game thus far and have never been anything but town, including this game.
Vivax already gave you one of my typical defenses; hell I'll even add to it to attempt to appease you.
The reason I want to be seen in a good light is because I'm town, and don't want people wasting their time trying to point out my dumb mistakes when they should be scumhunting for REAL scum.

On March 20 2013 09:45 WaveofShadow wrote:
I think I am comfortable enough to vote Wiggle right now though because he really just doesn't appear to give a shit.
Vote: Mr. Wiggles

On March 21 2013 12:07 WaveofShadow wrote:
That was hours ago. I know I read him as town but FUCK. How in the hell are we ever going to win this game if we have townies like this guy??