EPTThe Game [N] - Page 4
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DoYouHas
United States1140 Posts
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DoYouHas
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DoYouHas
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DoYouHas
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On March 21 2013 07:59 TestSubject893 wrote: I want to apologize for my inactivity. Since I was last active I was shortly in the hospital and had to unexpectedly drive my sister across the state. I've got some things to say after my 30-page-read-a-thon. 1. So like 30 bajillion people claimed. WoS did so in just about the scummiest way possible and if he is town needs to think a little bit before acting that way next time. It seems to me we have no choice but to believe him for now, but if a scum were going to fake claim to save themselves WoS's claim is about as good as it gets for scum. 2. VE was on the scum list for me before any of this stuff went down, but something about his interactions with "The Mirror" just doesn't add up. I think the most likely scenario if that he is some form of anti-town and we've caught him in a lie. No matter what's actually going on, I don't think we have much choice but to kill him today. ##Vote: VisceraEyes 3. I find the fact that my inactivity caused BH to be less suspicious of me a huge scum tell for him. All game long I was in his top 2 for scum and then all of the sudden the time comes that he has to justify his reasoning and I'm no longer there. Its clear that he chose his targets before he came up with his reasoning and this makes no sense as town. BH is scum. Town BH is too talented to peg someone as scum for disagreeing with them on a single point during day 1. I'm sure BH will rebut this point by pointing out how he's listed me since then and tell us all about how my inactivity is scummy, but none of those are excuses for having me in his top 2 scum all of D1 without being able to back it up. If he were a sincere town player he'd have been able to make a case on me to back those feelings up from D1 alone, but he couldn't even muster a paragraph. 1. - WoS's claim is the scummiest claim possible. 2 sentences later, it is about as good as it gets for scum. Either we have two very different interpretations as to what those things mean, or you just said that WoS's claim is both very bad and very good, barely a breath apart. Not to mention the ridiculously begrudging language you are using to describe believing the claim. Strike 1. 2. - VE was on the scum list? Go into that more please. What originally caught your eye about VE? Did you have an opinion on cosmic's case? Who else besides VE and BH are on this scumlist? Does it bother you that the person you are voting for was tunneling your most consistent scumread (BH) for the better part of a day? You seem to agree with me about 'The Mirror' not adding up. Why would you state your 'most likely' scenario without even referring to the extended conversation VE and I just had about possible explanations. Again you use the phrase 'no choice' as if you want no part in the blame for the VE lynch if it happens. YOU THINK that the most likely scenario has VE as an anti-town role, YOU cast your vote. Justify it, explain your logic, lead us in your thinking. If you have a most likely scenario, that means you considered less likely scenarios. What were they? by what criteria did you dismiss them? Strike 2. 3. - You have a huge scum tell on BH, this scum tell is that he hasn't been consistently referring to you in his top scum reads while you essentially haven't been playing the game. This is your only reasoning. This isn't a case, this doesn't convince anyone you are right that are not already thinking BH is scum. You want to take the firm stance on BH, but you don't want to do the work, that is scummy. Strike 3. Vote: TestSubject893 PS. Sorry to hear about your RL issues, but you are scum. | ||
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DoYouHas
United States1140 Posts
On March 21 2013 08:54 TestSubject893 wrote: Apparently my wording is unclear. "WoS's claim is the scummiest claim possible." and "as good as it gets for scum." both mean the same thing to me. WoS's claim was summy. I use begrudging language, because it reflects my begrudging acceptance.... I'm not sure any of this counts against me in any way.... I talk about this a here: It took him 40 pages to respond to DP's repeated questioning about that post and his logic has been inconsistent throughout the game. No, the post I reference happened during night one. I had not been inactive very long at that point. And even if I had, my point still stands. He had me as his top read day 1 and can't justify it. Ok, so I am guilty of the lazy case making in this instance (which by extension I can't get butt hurt about Coag's comment). However, I very much would like you to answer my questions and explain yourself on each of your sections much more thoroughly. Show me just how wrong I am. | ||
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DoYouHas
United States1140 Posts
On March 21 2013 09:00 Vivax wrote: Glurio VE is a confirmed liar. I have shown that his timestamps weren't from the last night like he claimed, and he stopped posting since then. You not reading the thread is concerning. I give you the timestamps of the first three posts in the log. All of which happen the last night. You used the last 2 timestamps. 3 The Mirror 03-19-2013 11:52 PM ET (US) 2 VisceraEyes 03-19-2013 08:23 PM ET (US) 1 VisceraEyes 03-19-2013 08:17 PM ET (US) | ||
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DoYouHas
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On March 21 2013 09:13 Coagulation wrote: doyouhas... what is your conclusion | ||
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DoYouHas
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DoYouHas
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On March 21 2013 09:19 TestSubject893 wrote: I can answer the questions, but I'm not sure what else you want. I feel that I already showed you were wrong, lol. I liked it. He makes some good points Zare and GK aren't looking great in my eyes. Geript was on there at one point but has moved back toward null since. Yes, but there's some a possibility that they are both anti-town but on different factions, so its not the end of the world. I'll reevaluate as new information becomes available, no need to blindly speculate now. You didn't show me I was wrong, you showed me I made a bad case. The questions are about getting you to explain your thoughts. I want your reasons as much as I want your conclusions. Those lack of details is why I jumped all over you. | ||
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DoYouHas
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The reason everyone starting jumping on VE is because he left his acceptance line in the logs, right? That means that everyone who initially jumped on VE is accepting that the 3rd party recruiting mechanic is based off getting players to choose an option that is against their current faction's win condition. I can't be the only one that finds that ridiculous in general and not at all likely for a 'normal' game? In fact, can anyone give me a 3rd party recruitment mechanic that doesn't involve standard press-ganging of people from their current faction that actually makes sense in the context of what was in those logs and isn't ridiculous to the point of not possibly being in a 'normal' game? And if the recruitment mechanic is in some way a press-gang mechanic, how is that supported at all by the log or the context? But what if VE was recruited from the start and they faked the logs? Not possible, if VE was recruited from the start we never would have gotten the initial post where he says he has been contacted by The Mirror. There are only 2 explanations that actually work with the given information. 1. VE is scum and fabricated the whole thing. I don't think this is true because it would be a high effort, high risk, low reward move. He had just claimed Vet, adding this on top doesn't make sense. 2. The Mirror is a mafia mason, and used that power to spread misinformation. It explains why the recruitment mechanics don't add up. It explains why VE was chosen, he had just outed the first person who masoned him. It explains why The Mirror didn't seem to care after VE outed him. I still have my couple points that don't add up pre-3p that pointed to VE being scummy, but if I am right about the 3p situation, and I think I am, it trumps all of my earlier suspicions. VE is town. I'm moving my vote to Wiggles, who seems to be the only other viable option. Unvote: TestSubject893 Vote: Mr. Wiggles | ||
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DoYouHas
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On March 21 2013 10:43 geript wrote: DYH you really need to listen to the podcast. What part? the part about how DrH want to find a way to make recruitment roles a thing again? | ||
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DoYouHas
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DoYouHas
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Unvote: Mr. Wiggles Vote: Ace To add to your point of him trying to get us to talk about fruitless subjects here is an exchange that could very well have been exactly that: + Show Spoiler + On March 19 2013 16:05 DoYouHas wrote: Gotta say, that instantly makes me like a zarepath lynch much less. On March 19 2013 16:06 Ace wrote: why? On March 19 2013 16:12 Ace wrote: How does Keirathi's death paint zarepath as innocent? On March 19 2013 16:26 DoYouHas wrote: Yes, my thinking could be reduced to WIFOM but here it is anyways. Scum priorities for NKs tend to fall along what threatens them the most balanced with a risk/reward assessment. If zare is scum, then the people threatening him right now are myself, Scib, and Vivax (off the top of my head). Vivax might be slightly less of a threat, as people have repeatedly ignored some of the things he says. But both Scib and I are extremely hard lynches at the moment, being considered townie by practically all of the thread (if I have read correctly). This makes Scib and I, and to a lesser degree, Vivax, logical targets IF zarepath is scum, and IF he was feeling the pressure. BH is another logical target if his roleclaim is true (I think it is, but can't be 100% sure). Now consider possible Medic protections. BH has claimed blue which could likely pull a medic's attention. Scib is probably the most townie and biggest threat in general, also a good chance of protection. But that still leaves myself and Vivax as pretty safe targets. Yes, this is WIFOM, but if I was scum this is how I would sift possible targets IF I was worried about zare getting lynched D2. Instead we get a Keirathi kill. A good kill because he is a solid town player, but by killing a replacement player who had very little time to put forth his opinions my guess is that scum is less worried about the track town is currently on, and more worried about a new voice providing a course correction. Ace tried to get responses from scib and I that lay out WIFOM thinking that is generally unhelpful, and could potentially waste the time of town if it hadn't been shut down quickly by BH and Moc after I indulged. There are other explanations, but for any of them to work Ace would have had to follow through with his questions in one form or another, he does not. | ||
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DoYouHas
United States1140 Posts
As for the rest of you, I spent most of day2 trying to figure out what was actually going on with VE. He was the central topic of the day and that is where I spent my time. One of the results of that was that when I eventually decided I thought VE was town, I was lacking in scum reads elsewhere. My biggest frustration this game is that apparently people view my contributions as crap, as helping the scum team. Even to the point of calling me the 6th scum member. Yet NONE of you choose to interact with me when I'm espousing what are now seen as clearly bad ideas. One person has legitimately tried to talk to me when I wasn't talking directly at them or about them, and that is Scib. If I was such a big town read for everyone day 1, WHY WOULDN'T YOU TRY TO WORK WITH ME? Why am I not considered one of the votes you are particularly trying to court? Why, if I am toiling away in scumland and it seems obvious to people, but you still have me as a townread, would you not try and correct me? Screw you guys, I'm going back to day 1 with all the flips in my head, and I'm going to find scum. When I finish and I present my cases tomorrow, agree or disagree, we are going to work together to decide the best lynch. I'm tired of this. I'll see you in day 3. | ||
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DoYouHas
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I think I have greatly narrowed the number of suspects. -Testsubject: Claimed the vigi hit on BH, no reason to disbelieve. Town. -VE - At this point he is as close to guaranteed not-mafia as we are ever going to get, town or 3p. -Zarepath - Very likely to be town. The quality of his posts has been going up as the game progresses and I just don't see how scum zarepath posts this about me. -WoS & TPS: I believe WoS's claim, but even if I didn't I would take him off the table for today's lynch because of it. Also, TPS seems cleared both by WoS's check and the fact that he was BH's first choice of tunnel. -kitaman27: Seems quite townie to me. I don't know if anybody would disagree with me on this point. -layabout: Similar to kita in my mind, if a little less verbose, town or 3p. -Coag and Kenpachi: I read both as town, possible 3p. It should be noted that in my mind the lynching objectives of the 3p, if it exists, should be the same as the towns, given how horrendously fast we are losing this. Because of this I consider VE off the table for today. That is 10/17 people who's opinion I think I can trust (including my own). This narrows my field of search to just 7 names: DP, Trance, glurio, CC, geript, Ryu, and Wiggles. Some of which I find scummy, some of which I am null on currently, and some of which I just haven't looked into enough. And no, I'm not going to say which is which. I've shot myself in the foot using this kind of reasoning before when I thought I had the whole scumteam pegged. But really I was 2/4, and in my attempts to convict them all I alienated the 2 townies in the group, lost their votes and had the lynch manipulated to the wrong target. If you disagree strongly with the people in either of these groups, I want to hear it. But if I am not completely out of touch with this game, and I correctly identified most of the townies, and those same townies also see it this way, we just created a majority, so long as we can actually work together to pick the best lynch candidate. Remember, if you are in my second group, I'm not calling you scum yet, and clearly I would be wrong about at least 3 of you. I want your comments too. I want to refine this list of reads until scum have nowhere left to hide. Hopefully I will be able to sleep now that I have gotten this out of my head. Gnight. | ||
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DoYouHas
United States1140 Posts
I also think that CC and Wriggles are a great place to look for scum, and that is exactly what I will do when I get back from work in ~4-5 hours. | ||
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DoYouHas
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I think it is reasonable to assume that if there is a third party, their win condition would require them to prolong this game. If we keep mislynching, the game ends quickly, the 3rd party doesn't have sufficient time to recruit, less likely they will win. Therefore, I think if there is a 3rd party, their win condition and towns currently line up and so lynching into suspected third party would be a bad idea. What are your thoughts/reads on Geript, DP, and Ryu? | ||
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DoYouHas
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On March 23 2013 05:42 Kenpachi wrote: hot damn this changes everything Are your top two scum reads Wiggles and DP? Right now that is the way I am leaning, I'm currently reading Wiggles' filter and I'm moving to DP after. | ||
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DoYouHas
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DoYouHas
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On March 23 2013 05:47 WaveofShadow wrote: You guys are playing mafia, I don't really understand where this sentiment of people making you want to quit is. You signed up to play, you know how people are, now live with it. When I have the chance later I'll reinforce my case on glurio but activity is real shit today. What's the deal, is it between CC/Wiggles for now? I don't think it has been decided yet exactly which candidates are going to be consolidated on yet, but CC/Wiggles are both on the table for it. | ||
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