EPT(we didnt know this.. but its in the scum QT)
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(we didnt know this.. but its in the scum QT) | ||
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On March 31 2013 11:19 DarthPunk wrote: Yes. It was towns fault for not reading or caring and it was my fault for not being convincing enough or having enough thread presence to push two really obvious scum to get lynched. That I agree with. Scum could be found with just some critical reading; and prejudice removed - which of course is easier said than done. | ||
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On March 31 2013 12:06 ThePeashooter wrote: I like how you quoted "optimal play" as if I ever said something was optimal, or that I somehow represented optimal play. I never made such a claim. Mistakes happen. I'm not going to focus on apologizing for fucking something up. It wasn't just me, we all did it. Apologizing does nothing. If I remember correctly I was specifically responding on the issue of spam. It wasn't a brag, it was a statement of fact and a reiteration of my previous points about spam. If most people put a few thoughtful posts into getting someone lynched and spammed a little less it would make the game better by increasing thread readability and therefore allowing more posts to be thoroughly analyzed by town. In contrast scum couldn't just write anything without repercussion because they would be more heavily scrutinized due to minimized post count. Thus I'd imagine both plays would elevate. What I have observed playing here for many years is that both the town and mafia skill has seemingly decreased as post counts increased. I think you abhor what I said simply because it was focused at people like you who ruin this game. Where not games more PM-centric back in those days? If so, the "rules" of play should/would have evolved for better or worse. I am not going to contest/comment about skill level deviations, as I have no background to the past. Regardless, I did over spam this game; but I actually didnt realise this until I was digging up something in my filter for the ObsQT. I can admit that freely. Fact is, what I thought I was achieving at the time.. I simply was not. Frankly, your comments about spam, then suggesting decreasing levels of play all points in addition to pointing out "ruining the game for others": all points toward your opinion of "optimal play". If you had delivered on the analysis that you berated others for not producing; then I would not think of you as a hypocrite. I stand by you needing to get off your high horse. All town played a part in the failures this game. Myself included. My two biggest regrets this game was letting go of BH because I hadn't read the thread completely; and whilst I was close to stopping the Ace lynch, I had too much spam to secure a viable alternative. In fact IIRC all alternatives were town (Wiggles/GK/VE). | ||
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On March 31 2013 14:00 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Must be a generation gap.This. This is exactly how I felt. I loved Day 1, I felt it was really good and harbored a good environment and there wasn't too much if any spam. Day 2 went to shit insanely fast. What you said is true. When someone has a 12+ page filter Day 2 I don't want to go through it and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Like you, life obligations have taken precedence over the time I can spent playing mafia. I thought Day 1 was terrible. It took me forever to read the 30-odd pages. Why? All of the posts were heavily refined - to the point - emotions had almost been removed. I am a "feel" reader, as I suspect most of the newer players are. We need natural thought processes to gain insight on others alignment. To exacerbate this quandary; the "tells" everyone were working off Day 1, in my opinion were not genuine scum tells. Perhaps the game has changed from 3 years ago. But these days, activity is not an alignment indicator. Nor is a propensity for attempting to guess smurfs; or laying down early pressure votes for stupid behaviour. Yes, town had a consolidated post count Day1; but in my opinion it was not conducive to catching scum - due to improper focus of attention. This was proven throughout the game via the quantity of mislynches, and cases brought forth on scum. TL;DR There are many ways to skin a cat. I am not arguing post consolidation is bad. I am commenting that post consolidation by itself does NOT make a good town make. | ||
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On March 31 2013 14:03 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: This is why I really hated this third party role. I felt like if scum was somehow converted he could never authentically play his new role. Either it would be too broken by posting the mafia team and GGing the game, or he would just float back to his team and try to get the third party killed which went directly against his win condition, but would also be creating a new win condition for him by allowing him to regain his former win condition. Agree in full. I think I commented a similar thing in the obsqt. Im still not sure whether layabout knew he would re-convert though? | ||
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& im shocked, it went so easily i mean.. there wasnt even a sense of concern from layabout? odd, because I thought i read that once layabout converted he lost the mason ability with cosmicomics. Hence? "HOW" could Kitaman mason him; and why was this never questioned? The whole thing is convoluted.. regardless.. well earnt win, and good adaption to the day4 lynch environment. | ||
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On March 31 2013 15:54 RyuSuzaku wrote: not true, but VE really has no ground to stand on here. layabout lost his mason ability with cosmic, but was still able to converse with scum (kita) kita lied and said he had been masoned by cosmic that cycle. Obviously no way for layabout to confirm since mason contact was broken. Thats one of the whole things that is broken about this conversion thing, in my opinion. Officially, if layabout converted and changed win-con.. he should not have access to the QT. Thus, Kita should never have been able to communicate with him. Obviously, scum will know if this is the case. I just think the mechanic is broken. If you can not convert mafia... how do you tell the converter, who he CAN and CAN NOT convert? That breaks the game as well. | ||
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On March 31 2013 16:01 Ace wrote: Recruiter gets notified their conversion failed not knowing why (Priest type roles that block conversion or trying to convert Mafia) or Recuiter dies the night they try to convert Mafia. If this happens they either get a new recruiter picked from the existing ones in the faction (broken for obvious reasons) or the better but more controversial way: everyone in the faction dies when the leader dies. I think that is what sl0osh/cosmi assumed was the case. (star crossed lovers IIRC) If the priest is a one-off blue role, than the chances of failing on mafia >> failing on a priest. So I am not a fan of the failed conversation method. Perhaps this whole situation could have been averted if layabout still had mason access to CC. He could have held off the discourse with kita, to confirm first with CC? Recruiter becomes a bit like zerg then.. continual psionic link  | ||
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This game specifically confirmed my love for Night Cycle - 23hr action submission deadline. Considering the 24hr deadline was "fluid"; it was frustrating that the validity of vig claims be questioned purely due to a moving deadline; or BH final words require to be deleted etc I have only seen the 23hr submission deadline in newbies, so uncertain why it is not apparent in the normal league? Any context I am missing? | ||
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On March 31 2013 16:24 Ace wrote: hmm? If you mean 48hour day/24 hour night cycles I think that was the standard for a long time. its still 48/24 cycle but the submission deadline is 48/23 thus there is a 1hour deadzone, where you can post freely without consequence. (i.e. change to actions both town and scum) Allows "final words" to be made with confidence of not influencing the night actions etc. Also means, ppl can go to sleep 1 hr earlier | ||
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On March 31 2013 16:26 Blazinghand wrote: Oh yeah I had a huge HYOOOOJ post I made 5 minutes before the deadline the night I died, but the second I posted it DrH posted the day post 5 minutes early and he had me edit my post out ;_; That agitated me. I witnissed that post before deletion. And it gave away some leads to follow based on a red flip IIRC | ||
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On March 31 2013 16:29 Blazinghand wrote: It was his decision to make. our posts were made within seconds of each other Ohhh yes, i realised that + it was well within the rules to request a deletion. (based on the NO post after death clause) But it was still frustrating deadlines could be +- 5min. Look @ testsubject vig claim, and how shady that looked in conjunction with your death coming 5 min early. I think deadlines need to be firm, if you dont have a 1hr deadzone period. | ||
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On March 31 2013 16:32 Keirathi wrote: Oh yea. I can't think of a serious reason for night to ever be ended early. I think if the host nor cohost can make the deadline, they should find some impartial third party to make the post. Or, even just delay it. I also hate late posts, but I would 10000% rather have a 3 hour late day post than one 5 minutes early with no warning. In a game I co-hosted All 3 of us couldnt be around at the deadline. So I told the group hours in advance, I would be ceasing the night 30min early. I think as long as notice is given, it can be acceptable, as we all do have social lives But, this can all be alleviated via the 23hr action resolution time frame.  | ||
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On March 31 2013 17:17 RyuSuzaku wrote: if I'm not mistaken, I was the originator of that 1 hour deadline thing (if someone did it before me, then I am unaware) however for whatever reason only my games ever had it. Apparently one of the newbie game hosts decided it was a good idea, I suppose? I guess so? Acrofales is the where I learnt about it. I think its a really solid idea to implement. | ||
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On April 01 2013 09:45 layabout wrote: I also think this set-up was a hard win for mafia compared to others, town had 3 vigis, medic, cop, and it took 2(?) modkills 1 mis vig shot, 4 town mislynches and a 3p lynch vs 1 correct vig shot and a vet hit on town's side, for the mafia team to win. When you add in the 3p there are too many ways for the mafia to lose players outside of the lynch without being able to protect themselves and i think mafia medic would have been a good addition. I was also disappointed that the rolenames had such a small impact on the game. I didnt think too much on this during the course of the obsQT, but I agree in full. Even with the closed setup difficulty, and 5 mafia + 3P in a 25 player game, I think this was stacked in towns favour. Through a combination of good sniping and poor play, all the blues were eliminated first. | ||
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