EPTPersonality Mafia 2
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slOosh
3291 Posts
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slOosh
3291 Posts
a) yamato uses mod-confirm check day one on kurumi b) yamato then day vigs mod-confirmed town kurumi c) people complain and call yamato bad but don't vote him d) yamato is getting away with shooting mod-confirmed town e) yamato is getting away with shooting mod-confirmed town f) yamato is getting away with shooting mod-confirmed town srsly if anybody doen't realize this and considers themselves good, well, maybe you need to bend over to see just how low you really are. ##Vote: yamato | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On March 11 2013 13:06 Oatsmaster wrote: Tell me why scum would modconfirm a townie? Please? cuz he can shoot him, and people like you let him get away with it why would town use super mod check on kurumi of all people? less posting more sheeping me SHEEP SLOOSH A CHANGE YOU CAN SHEEP IN MAYBE WE COULD SHEPE | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
From Personality I find it amazing that You people just dont think at all. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On March 11 2013 18:08 yamato77 wrote: Don't go too deep thinking about this, it's really simple. I used my role on Kurumi knowing that he might die, because him dying might have actually been a good thing for town today. Thread atmosphere was extremely anti-scumhunt for a good part of the last day. It is now pro-scumhunt. Mission accomplished. Blatant misinterpretation: yamato is taking credit of shifting the anti-scumhunting atmosphere to pro town as justification when it clearly wasn't the case. He just shot Kurumi only 15 minutes after he checked his PM and started martyring, and there was nothing that made Kurumi exceptionally trollish compared to other players like he makes it out to be. He doesn't claim straight up with the shot, but is incredibly vague and only gives up information slowly when people pressure him. If he is town, there's no reason to straight up explain how his role works BEFORE sending in the PM. Not to mention the role is suspect as hell - someone gets mod-confirmed when they are gonna get flipped 2 hours later anyways? The more likely explanation for these two thoughts is that yamato is bsing about his role as he goes along. And since most of you guys are buying this bs claim up nothing, you can't see blatant contradictions like this. On March 11 2013 17:49 yamato77 wrote: Suspicious, and completely mafia motivated. VE gets some more points in his scum hunting favor with this read, along with Bugs. Gonna have to unvote that guy. On March 11 2013 18:08 yamato77 wrote: Also, I think that Foolish needs to die. One useless post calling a weak player scum is basically a mafia claim for him as far as I'm concerned. He uses Vivax as justification for giving VE a townish read, and then at the same time uses him to call Foolish scum. Total contradiction. yamato77 is scum and you should all feel bad for not bothering to read properly | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On March 12 2013 02:55 marvellosity wrote: slOosh, just tell me why yamato would claim the kill at all if he's mafia. I don't get it. Cause he can get massive towncred for it and use it as a platform of pushing mafia agenda and blind you guys from seeing blatant contradictions like the one I just pointed out. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On March 12 2013 02:56 Stutters695 should have wrote: | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On March 12 2013 03:04 marvellosity wrote: I'm certainly not giving yamato's opinions any more weight than I was previously. Is anyone else actually doing so? I don't think so. lol dude stop sidestepping yamato shot modconfirmed town Be clear with it: do you think he is town? Cause right now all you are doing is theorizing on how viable of a mafia move it is, not how scummy yamato actually is. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On March 12 2013 03:03 yamato77 wrote: Your "contradiction" quickly unravels when you realize Foolish gave no real good reasons for Vivax being mafia while VE did. It's not the read, it's the explanation. That's not what you said. You call Vivax scum, then give VE favor for "scumhunting favor with this read" and then call Foolishness scum for calling a "weak player scum". No mention of explanations at all, just the stances. And to note, you think Vivax is "Suspicious, and completely mafia motivated" and a "weak player" and then get all pissy that a reputable town player came to the same conclusion. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On March 12 2013 03:26 Stutters695 wrote: I'm aware of that sloosh but here's what I take issue with: you haven't pushed him at all until recently (outside of one post) and you haven't said anything else. If you had spent all your time pushing him I'd understand but you haven't, you didn't weigh in on my blatant trolling, bugs noncommittal posting or Crossfires useless posts. Please tell us what you think about anyone but Yamato instead of coasting on something anyone reading v the thread noticed. If I think yamato is scum and that he is getting away with it, why wouldn't I want discussion centered on him? I only have a limited time to play so obviously I can't juggle everything. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On March 12 2013 03:16 marvellosity wrote: how is that sidestepping in the slightest? I don't understand why mafia would claim shooting a mod-confirmed town when the other option was not to claim it and not receive any heat at all for it. So yes, I think he's probably town. Cause he can get away with it that's why. I don't know the restriction on his role, I don't know if personality DTs exist or whatever. I don't buy "oh he could have done this instead" when it doesn't at all excuse the nature of how he did it. He has been very vague about his role and only commented when attention was swinging his way, the role itself stinks of fabrication, his explanation of his shot is poor and was on a mod-confirmed town as far as I can tell. How are these all explained away by "he could have done this instead" when it is clear that he barely receiving heat for it now? | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=281403¤tpage=75#1492 how is this situation any different? | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On the most basic of levels, a town yamato means there is a role that checks someone and if they are green they get shot some time (2 hours) later. Clearly the shot did not immediately follow the check, cause if it did Kurumi would have died right then and there. I mean, you caught me with this kind of bs in bureaucracy when I pretended to be vig right? How is this claim so easily believable? As for "is yamato a good enough scum to pull it off" - there are many experienced players in this game and it's not too hard to see some on being scum team. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On March 12 2013 04:21 marvellosity wrote: so in your little theory yamato makes the choice to shoot the one mod-confirmed townie? No need to be condescending. Is "yamato couldn't pull this off" the sole reason for your town read on him? Big enough to excuse any and everything scummy about his play? | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On March 12 2013 04:23 Promethelax wrote: why not believe his role confirms who it shoots no one else has popped up to claim Kitaman's toots If no one else claims the announcement I see no reason for your denouncement of Yam besides that his shot was poop. I'm not saying that the modconfirm ability isn't his, I'm saying on the most basic of levels that a role that says "you modconfirm the player and then 2 hours later they get shot" is fricken suspect. Add onto that the suspicious elements of his play that I've pointed out, then "is yamato a good enough scum to pull it off" isn't a good reason to give him a pass. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
The time between Kurumi voting himself and the shot is 15 minutes. His trolling prior wasn't anything beyond what other players were doing too. On March 11 2013 06:46 Kurumi wrote: okay so it seems I got a scum role and I am town burn me because if I ever fucking turn mole I will throw something heavy out of my room ##vote Kurumi On March 11 2013 06:59 yamato77 wrote: i'm at work you asshat it's in my filter What I will do is solve this Kurumi problem right now. @marv, http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=400204¤tpage=49#970 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=400204¤tpage=51#1008 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=400204¤tpage=51#1015 Stop calling it a theory please. I came to the conclusion with behavioral analysis and not some paranoia as your word choice seems to imply. On March 12 2013 04:33 yamato77 wrote: Your tunnel of me does nothing but confirm the fact that you're red. What do you do if you're successful in getting me lynched and people realize your reasoning was total ass? I see a lot of "confirmed reds" in your filter. Good job pushing none of them. Oh, also good job trying to convince a red that his reasoning is "total ass". @Prom I don't have to know exactly how his role works - that's not important. Maybe the check is a prerequesite for the shot. Maybe a scum member had an ability in this. I don't know and I don't care, because it's just one independent point in my total case. I've presented why I think yamato is scum (refer to posts above to marv and my filter). No one but supersoft has engaged in honest discussion of this. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On March 12 2013 04:50 marvellosity wrote: I've been extremely open in my discussion of this, slOosh, you just don't like what i have to say. cuz you still haven't mentioned anything about my behavioral analysis points so yea, not honest | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
People think otherwise about the role usage: I invite those people to look into his filter (aside from the role stuff) and tell me what they think. Marv I think you mentioned his meta - I'm most familiar with town yamato from Nomination, where he carried town at the end. Dunno his scum meta, but clearly he can play decent town (posting wise and whatnot). I'll be taking this night to review stuff I missed during the day. Still gonna tunnel yamato though unless people can provide more than "yam's balls too small for that". If you want opinions on specific things ask and I'll address them when I can. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
Rereading for the past 3 or 4 hours ... and yea maybe I got my tunnel on too hard ... probably because I researched too much into personality mafia 1 and subscribe under the Ace / L school of thought. Still don't like yamato but it's probably destructive for me to continue play like this. ![[image loading]](http://media.playdota.com/hero/58/skill-0.jpg) + ![[image loading]](http://www.dotastrategy.com/images/skill/suicidesquad.gif) Anyhoo, I'm gonna remedy this as best I can tonight cuz I'm the Warlock Techies, and I'ma blowing up (lolol) all the baddies with me. Of course the hosts don't know anything about balance (lolol) so it's not so simple as ##suicide: baddies, but I hope to take a couple down with me. Hopefully they turn out scummers, but in worst case I take out mislynches and lurkers. I need to regen some mana but everything should pan out by midcycle (24 hours) into day 2 - if not you can feel free to try to lynch my charred remains :D And of course+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.qkme.me/3otxuf.jpg) | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
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slOosh
3291 Posts
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slOosh
3291 Posts
You guys also seem keenly aware of my weak scum meta. Well then take advantage of it. Talk to me - either I'm town and I provide good insight as "very good town slOosh" or I'm scum and I expose my weakness and frailty as "noob sauce scum slOosh". I don't have the spread of time that I used to have, and instead have blocks, so I can't play as I usually do. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On March 13 2013 11:59 marvellosity wrote: the only thing that makes Foolish look a little less bad is that Ver looks bad as well. that isn't much to go on. Could you expand on this please? Are you making loose relations around vet balance? | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On March 13 2013 13:01 Mocsta wrote: I am going back to HotS As much as I would love to support Cora right now (or Fool with his play) I think it is unwise if we all consolidate right now. In Mafia LX we did that (consolidated vote as in EVERYONE within teh first 12 hrs) and it killed off all discussions and dropped motivation levels as well. It also gave no information on mafia, because everyone voted the same person. I am struggling with this game enough as it is - because its such a shitfest; I think it would be good to avoid those type of repercussions (from consolidating early) So I would like to hear more thoughts from lurkers like Crossfire99 and Risk.Nuke in regards to their top scum reads whilst we have "spare" time. .... consolidating early is a good thing. It forces stances and focus' town attention. Trying to determine lynches last minute never works out for town. What do you make of crossfire's "will post"? | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
This next point is open to anyone: BC flipped town, and is one of the best players in TL Mafia. What do you glean from his filter? | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
The Plan Give various people NUKEs. Two reasons a) See how people use it. Do they treat it carefully? Do they trust it? Do they just shoot whatever? b) If multiple scum members received it, there will be information leak. They know that multiple NUKEs were given. Information pump yea? c) My last night post was designed in a way where it seemed like they had to fire the NUKEs or it blows up on themselves. Dunno how well this worked or not, but there is more information if people use it rather than if people don't. d) I have ANTI NUKE countermeasures so it doesn't matter if I hand them to scum - in fact it is better because we see true motives come out. e) (for him who knows) You town. I'm glad. I'm saying this all now because enough information has passed and we need time to properly look over it (I'm still doing it myself). p.s. Vivax please cut back on the spam. I understand where you are coming from, I really do, but it is disrupting what we are doing here. The way that marv is handling this NUKE business is one of the most sensible of the lot. Leave him alone for this day cycle please. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
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slOosh
3291 Posts
I have ANTI NUKE countermeasures. Proper discussion of player behavior and actions and justification does not require me to explain further. Deciding who to lynch of course does, so I'll explain clearly at like, midday or something. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
Crossfire, explain clearly what you thought when you received your NUKE and the thought process leading up to deciding how to use it. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On March 14 2013 03:40 slOosh wrote: If you honestly think I ruined it I apologize, but I think I brought about a wealth of useful information. I have ANTI NUKE countermeasures. Proper discussion of player behavior and actions and justification does not require me to explain further. Deciding who to lynch of course does, so I'll explain clearly at like, midday or something. I still think there is a wealth of information in how people respond to my claim. But I think you are smart enough to figure out how they might work. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
If you are concerned about consolidating votes. I can move it earlier if you think we can't do it in 24hrs. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On March 14 2013 03:46 Acrofales wrote: This. Please state clearly: you can choose which nukes are going to land and kill their target? Can you cancel just one? Or any number of them? If you don't cancel, will they kill their target? lol. Talk about the people who used the NUKEs and how they responded. I already said multiple times I'll explain, so you don't have to worry about voting stuff, and I don't see how knowing more helps anyone but scum in forming their plan. Also, On March 13 2013 22:47 Acrofales wrote: So if the nuke is real, then Yamato dies at the end of the cycle. I think we should leave Foolishness for tomorrow: I see no reason for scum to nuke a scumbuddy right now. If Yamato flips red, then Foolishness is probably town. How does this make sense? | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On March 14 2013 03:47 austinmcc wrote: slOosh, if you want to go ahead and play the game, I'd like to know what you think about strongandbig. If the person who is controlling prplhz's vote is town and can say so without giving away a ton of information, then that person should state that they're responsible for the vote. Vote controlling not the most townie looking action, and this is information that would be important in figuring some things out. Politician is in no way a town move unless you intentionally take a scum's vote to decide a close lynch. Clearly the way that it was used today was not that. I'll give you a blurb on my thoughts on SnB soon but I'd rather focus on the NUKErs the NUKEees and surrounding conversation. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On March 14 2013 03:52 Acrofales wrote: If yamato is scum, then why would foolish have nuked him? It would be a monumentously stupid thing to do as scum. So if yamato is scum, foolishness isn't. It really is that simple. Why wouldn't you lynch Foolishness today? | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On March 13 2013 22:47 Acrofales wrote: So if the nuke is real, then Yamato dies at the end of the cycle. I think we should leave Foolishness for tomorrow: I see no reason for scum to nuke a scumbuddy right now. If Yamato flips red, then Foolishness is probably town. On March 13 2013 23:46 Crossfire99 wrote: ##NUKE: Foolishness I'm glad I can read the thread. People - is this a scumslip or people who can't read? | ||
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slOosh
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slOosh
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On March 14 2013 04:00 Crossfire99 wrote: Dude it's like a minute after my post. He probably didn't refresh. That makes absolutely no sense and you need to spend more time reading. There is an hour gap between the two posts, and you can't gain information by not refreshing. He assumed that Foolishness will be NUKED before it was posted that he would be NUKED. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On March 14 2013 03:47 austinmcc wrote: slOosh, if you want to go ahead and play the game, I'd like to know what you think about strongandbig. Honestly was one of the players I put off reading because his filter is too long for close inspection. I don't like him, given that he isn't trying to figure stuff out as everyone should be. Fricken NUKEs flying around and you casually sit back and enjoy the view? For my turn I pick anyone concerning the NUKE discussion. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On March 14 2013 04:08 marvellosity wrote: how about you don't tell me how to play ever again. deal? Until slOosh explains exactly what's going in with nukes, I don't see much point in engaging with him. He's made what is quite clearly an anti-town move in giving nukes to volatile, lurky, or suspicious players. If slOosh genuinely had KP to give out, why wasn't he giving it out to his strongest townreads? I know slOosh respects my judgement, why wouldn't he give me a KP to kill mafia with? This whole plan stinks, and his inability just to say "yes" to my clarification is very concerning indeed. Guh ... fine. All the NUKES are fake. Of course if they were real KP I would give them out to my townreads cause dead scum is superior to finding scum. If the last guy doesn't believe me he can shoot me. Way to ruin another trap. I thought you'd be able to figure it out. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On March 14 2013 04:38 HiroPro wrote: sloosh did you send the message. No, I'm guessing mafia Plexa hoped I wouldn't be here to clear it up and make a bigger mess out of thread. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On March 14 2013 07:04 Promethelax wrote: sloosh, you scum? look at viv's crumb is clear he knew nukes = at least two whats this gambit you're trying to run? I don't understand your question - everyone knew nukes >= 2 at the time of his post. On March 13 2013 22:35 kitaman27 wrote: A nuclear missile has been launched targeting yamato77. The missile will detonate at the end of the day cycle. On March 14 2013 00:03 kitaman27 wrote: A nuclear missile has been launched targeting Foolishness. The missile will detonate at the end of the day cycle. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
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slOosh
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The proper quote is On a side note, I find marvellosity to be less abrasive when he's town than he's mafia. Whereas he misconstrued that what Foolishness said wasmarvellosity is more abrasive when he's mafia than when he's town It's misrepresentation on a side point. In fact, if Foolishness is scum and marv is town, then marv should be glad to destroy and totally wreck Foolishness' case. If you bothered actually reading it, there are good explanations for his motives and his alibi checks out to a degree that everyone should be giving it an honest read. Town Foolishness is known for trolling around and busting out super cases anyways. NOBODY CARES should not be the response.I asked everyone this before, about what do you notice in BC's filter: On March 13 2013 06:48 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Its prpl and austin. Both are experienced enough to know better. Also, marv has outright lied about how he garners reads on me. As he was unsure of my alignment in LX and was basing my alignment on if I got shot n1 or not. Given his tried and true method is not neccesarily in play this game given that there are so many big names to shoot him outright saying I have a tell for him d1 is an outright lie. Now the only reason I mention it is he made a huge deal of foolishness lying yet does it himself. Hypocritical actions make BC sad. People should give it a serious read. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On March 14 2013 08:41 supersoft wrote: sloosh I LOVE it! good job. You gave to nukes to the right people. Really well played. Seriously. Okay my new circle of trust: Prom, sloosh, Foolishness, vivax, cDgCorazon. You don't vote each other. AWW YSS THE GANGS IN TOWN | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On March 14 2013 08:55 Acrofales wrote: Okay, so tell me about Yamato. I disagree that his early game was scummy. I think his shot was terrible, but can't think of a reason for scum to do it, other than incredibly wifom shit (which I talked about with BC). However, he is dropping off in play. I am okay backing off from Foolishness for now. My strongest scumspect is still Cora, and what I said during the night still stands. Additionally, his case against me was so biased, cherrypicking posts out of my filter to paint me as scum, rather than considering the whole thing... why do you think he's town? Why the crap are you still talking about Cora? Clearly the issue is between Foolishness and marv. You should be spending time on that. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On March 14 2013 09:01 strongandbig wrote: yeah i kind of feel like we should be lynching one of them today, because if one of them is scum he will kill the other one tonight and then probably persuade us all to lose Ok. Who? | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On March 14 2013 09:04 Acrofales wrote: Sloosh, was that a voluntary use of your power and if so, why in god's name Cora? Of course not, who the heck would give their vote away? It was not compulsory either, i.e. someone used it on me. And again, why are you getting distracted about little things? | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On March 14 2013 09:07 Acrofales wrote: I still think Marv is town, and am uncomfortable voting Foolish as well after that giant post. Why the hell does it have to be between them? I think Cora is scum. And you trying to shut down discussion is pretty fucking suspicious too. Because scum get off 2~3 more shots off today, confirmed town supersoft is no longer here to help us and clearly there's not that much in the rest of town that inspires confidence. That's why we talk about them today. I'm not shutting down discussion, I'm shutting down irrelevant talk. It's like if someone started talking about lynching lurkers. | ||
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slOosh
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slOosh
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I want to lynch marv first because we have the most clout today and he is hardest to lynch today, but I assume Foolishness has a good reason to go in that order. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
Instead of pointing out the (what should be) obvious gaping logical holes of scum Foolishness' "case" in determining the three reads, you go after something inane. C'mon - rip it apart marv! There is actually plenty of reason to lynch yamato first - him flipping red does a lot to the current playing field, which is why I'm waiting on supersoft / Foolishness. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On March 14 2013 10:00 marvellosity wrote: The most important thing of all is this. This is the most important part of Foolish's post. And this is obviously not true. If Foolishness is obv scum as you makes him out to be, then his whole case should scream it. Not the little footnote conclusion. Sick of your cherry picking marv. Sick of it. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On March 14 2013 22:20 marvellosity wrote: One other thing. slOosh is either very very bad or mafia. Witness. slOosh saying... we should lynch marv today! yes! Now I make my post about how absolutely Foolish should be wanting to lynch me first, and for good reasons. I spelt them all out well enough. slOosh's response: Just absolute bullshit. slOosh thinks himself, before I posted, that I should be lynched first. I proceed to spell out the many reasons Foolish should want to lynch me first (mafia leader, shitting up thread, etc.) and that he's scared to take me on. slOosh responds to me saying it's a null point. Having just said HIMSELF why we should lynch me today! Fucking wow. I want to lynch marv and give my reasoning. supersoft and Foolishness and want to lynch yamato. I think about it, and then reason that there are good reasons for lynching either. THEREFORE IT IS A NULL POINT THAT FOOLISHNESS WANTS TO LYNCH YAMATO FIRST, BECAUSE THERE ARE GOOD TOWN MOTIVATIONS TO DO SO marv is twisting and misinterpreting the situation here, trying to throw crap on me and using this NULL point to push for Foolishness' lynch. On March 14 2013 08:07 Foolishness wrote: Is there anything else you want to come clean about since everyone wants to kill you? Yes, last night I shot yamato77, but my bullet turned out to be a dud. According to the notification I received, the role lied to me and I did not actually have a one-time vigi shot. Thus I do not think anyone interfered with my shooting last night (I wasn't roleblocked or anything of the sort). When I was notified that I didn't actually have a vigi-shot, I thought that the nuke was the replacement for that. That is, my role ability is actually "may shoot someone at night with a dud bullet. If this ability is used the player gets a nuke the following day which he may use at anytime." He never said he was a vig. If you are trying to solve the game with role spec, then at least be honest with all the roles. Because you have a role that checks someone and shoots them later if they are town and you have a role that says he protected syllogism but the real syllogism died. Srsly. On March 14 2013 23:17 austinmcc wrote: I like this ^ slOosh especially, can you try dropping a vote on someone else? ##Vote: marvellosity On March 15 2013 00:10 austinmcc wrote: The above post is meh. It's not the third thing, the wanting to look townie, that gets me. It's the way he was concerned about looking townie. He wanted to use his vig shot to look townie. He wanted to use his nuke to look townie. He doesn't seem to realize that he could use his UNLYNCHABILITY to look townie. He wanted to use his role/actions to look townie, but not the giant, neon sign, HEY LOOK GUYS I'M TOWN part of his role. To do that he has to waste a town lynch. Waste a town lynch. When the town lynch is the most reliable important tool for scumkilling. Looking townie is important if scum has been shoveling doubt on you all day, because even if you have all the right reads, it doesn't matter if people don't listen. I think there are good town motivations for his actions. On March 15 2013 01:03 marvellosity wrote: I'll make it quite clear now. If I am alive at LYLO, then lynch me. Quote this post against me later. I plan to have all the mafia dead before LYLO. This is BS - you can make that argument for any vet. In fact, marv is a good enough scum player to know that him lasting till endgame is not necessary. Even if he gets lynched tomorrow after Foolishness flips town, he will have done his job, and 3KP goes through tonight. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On March 15 2013 02:19 marvellosity wrote: austin made the very specific point that I could be concentrating on Foolish to avoid a policy lynch later. That was me welcoming a policy lynch. And you're accusing me of twisting, slOosh? Ok. Let's not lynch Foolishness. If he is alive at LYLO we can lynch him. That's the logic in that statement which I called out BS. You continue to point out and inflate minor points as an excuse to ignore the major pertinent ones. Marv, if I had a gun right now I would shoot you. Either: 2) my reads are woefully wrong (potential) 3) you are scum Why does marv keep dodging? Why does he cherry pick at small things and inflate them? Why doesn't he address the main points and accusations? Cuz he scum. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On March 15 2013 12:15 marvellosity wrote: also hi slOosh. we need to talk. I'm here - just totally lost on how to proceed because it seems like all my reads are in the wrong places. But yea, here to talk nevertheless. Just need direction that's all. I haven't had a chance to read your 2 mega posts on Foolishness, but his followup actions inspire no confidence, as does his nonchalant explanation of his role. Seems weird that they would choose to reveal the nature of their roles clearly - I haven't checked the votes but cora could have easily left his votes on yamato, and assuming he is town would have gotten him lynched and kept 3KP for scum this night. Uhh ... but yea that's WIFOM, which doesn't hold up to Foolishness' actions themselves indicating he is scum. Also his ability reminded me of this post. On March 11 2013 01:21 prplhz wrote: I have a one shot ability to become immune to the lynch next day at the expense of my own vote. Any votes on me, and by me, will simply not count. @Mocsta plan point e) " (for him who knows) You town. I'm glad." I think risk.nuke handled his nuke in a very townlike manner. When thread chaos was a possibility he calmly said (soon after the first mod launch) On March 13 2013 22:38 risk.nuke wrote: Yeah, it can still be a dud. I didn't bother exposing him because I saw his usage (or lack thereof) of the nuke a very town like thing to do. The point of the Nukes was to help get reads on difficult to read people (from my perspective). I went through multiple iterations of deciding the group, and I chose to give Vivax, Foolishness, risk.nuke and crossfire99 the nukes because they were people I wanted a better read on. I forgo talking about nukes later on because it's not nearly as clear cut as straight up behavioral analysis that occured (and thread moves way too fast for me so I don't always follow up on stuff) | ||
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slOosh
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On March 15 2013 21:19 marvellosity wrote: Three things here. 1) The last time I remember slOosh making constant excuses about being absent and not having time was Dwarf fortress, where slOosh was mafia 2) given slOosh was so eager to talk about "the nukers", it seems almost impossible that he wouldn't want to talk about the non-nuker too. 3) This is the worst - "I haven't had a chance to read your 2 mega posts on Foolishness". Let's be clear here. slOosh came in to the thread yesterday, ranting like a prize buffoon, accusing me of this that and the other, saying I'd not done this or that, and this came after my first large response to Foolishness. This is unassailable proof that slOosh is throwing down his vote without actually reading the thread, without reading what i have to say. I should say, slOosh (not so confident to use the bold fond on him.... yet.) 1) Dwarf was a total of about 30 pages for 5ish cycles. This thread has 100 pages by day 2. I also missed the first half of D1 and I got the same crap in Nomination. Could I be scum for using this as an excuse to lurk? Yea. Could I be town who is genuinely busy, having trouble keeping up with a post heavy thread? Yea. 2) There's no reason for me to expose the non-nuker, because it gives a clear town read that scum would shoot (because they want to keep people alive for mislynches, and lurker risk.nuke is one such possibility). 3) Yes - I did not have time to read your first large response and posted even though having seen it (but not reading it) because I had no time. If you are arguing that I had I spent my time poorly, that may be true, but that is from your perspective. I still thought Foolishness was town and I still didn't like how you initially handled the case, and so I posted what I thought would help point it out. I still think that your initial points were pretty weak and if you want to tell me why I'm wrong in post-game that's fine. Like, it really does boil down to how much meta are you using. What can I do if I'm, for some reason or another, unable to play at the "level" I used to last year? Look at nomination mafia and bad I was there. You have to go back to ... uh Mad Men I think, to see my last "good" game. If you did honest research into my town meta, you would realize I always get shot early. The only good game I had past n1 was PYPoison, but that's because Radfield carried. You know of GM's mini II. Conversely my scum meta is very weak play. I understand that, and you understand that, having played Liquid City together, and the shadowing stuff. So the question is, when you use meta, are you simply comparing to townslOosh and deciding that since I'm different that I'm scum, or are you also looking at scumslOosh and concluding that I look enough like that that meta is valid? Because if I look like neither town or scum slOosh, then how is meta valid? But at the end of the day, this is really a roundabout way of going about things. Give me direction marv. Ask me to look at something and give my opinion on it, because you know that scum slOosh can't throw off the "burden of knowledge" that mafia have. Test me. | ||
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slOosh
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On March 15 2013 23:57 Vivax wrote: SlOosh you seemed sure yamato was scum why didn't you give him a nuke? Uhhh ... let me see ... 1st PM) yamato, HiroPro and risk.nuke 2nd PM) add Foolishness 3rd PM) prplhz, Foolishness, risk.nuke and HiroPro 4th PM) prplhz, Foolishness, risk.nuke and crossfire99 5th PM) Vivax, Foolishness, risk.nuke and crossfire99 I think it was because I was considering that I could just be paranoid and that it wasn't marv / yamato scum but instead Foolishness scum, because Foolishness' big post came sometime in day 2, and prior to that I was letting go of my marv / yamato scum idea. Then I gladly picked it back up when Foolishness came in with his big post and supersoft kinda backed it up. Yea I'd have to check precisely times and stuff but this is from memory. | ||
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slOosh
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Guh I'm getting paranoid again. | ||
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On March 16 2013 00:18 marvellosity wrote: Why would mafia death frame a townie as mafia just to reveal him as town later ? That makes absolutely no sense. 12 hours of discussion based on incorrect information? A townie would never use a death frame? 3rd party wouldn't even know how to use it? | ||
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slOosh
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On March 16 2013 00:23 marvellosity wrote: My point is this. If Corazon flips townie with the nightpost, I look awful immediately. We can agree on this yes? There's no arguing with the hosts, there's no speculation on any abilities, I simply look awful. In this scenario, there's a lot of doubt about what happened, enough in fact that I'm still pretty convinced Corazon was mafia. Why do it in a manner that makes me look less bad than if Corazon had simply flipped townie in the nightpost? Are you trying to argue that Corazon is scum? | ||
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On March 15 2013 07:51 Foolishness wrote: Also, I just found this out, but apparently instead of me not getting lynched the person with the second most votes gets lynched instead. I don't see how an interpretation of a post is overriding a mod post. Not just an announcement but something reflected in the OP. | ||
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On March 16 2013 00:39 HiroPro wrote: i think marv is right. caller role from personality 1: except this time, they gave us some warning. What are you suggesting? Is cora scum or town? | ||
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On March 16 2013 00:40 Promethelax wrote: You all are stupid Cora was scum Just count the deaths thatwiththe night come All townies claim shots The topic is hot We'll know if we killed the right one. That doesn't work because scum can fake getting shot if this goes through. Or they can doublestack. They have ways of disguising it. | ||
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slOosh
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So cora and Foolishness are making an elaborate ploy where they deflect a scum lynch onto another scum when they had the power to lynch whomever they chose (given that cora had 2 votes and people weren't aware of Foolishness' deflection). And absolute certainty means they planned this out, so they can do a fake message that implicates marv as scum. And they do all this instead of just last minute voting you. Wow. Just no. | ||
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On August 23 2011 13:18 flamewheel wrote: The planting ability was amazingly powerful, and sadly that's all I contributed to this game. Kudos to my team; you guys did a good job. On August 23 2011 13:27 GMarshal wrote: Looking from an outside perspective the mafia roles look really, really strong, especially the death framer. The tratior getting a free town kill when lynched is also... odd, I mean he lynches BC in his place, gets a free kp and forces the town to have to somehow kill him? That seems really, really strong. Not to mention the bomberman being a free extra kp, or the suicide bombers destructive potential. Mafia seems stacked. On August 23 2011 13:30 Mig wrote: Yea the mafia roles are godlike. A bomb kp every single night. A role thief. A scum doctor. A puppetmaster. Pandain is gf + can permanently remove town powers. Syllo was fucking rber and admiral ackbar combined into one role, so anytime he was about to be lynched he could always suicide and kill the best town player. And then to top it off death framer is unreal good. On August 23 2011 19:40 Curu wrote: Overall from scum I think the Bombmaker + Flip Framer were too ridiculous. Not to excuse Town's shoddy play and it's understandable that they neeed strong roles to compensate for everyone in Town having a power, but some of them were so ridiculous that they weren't ever going to be used - Vig that dies to a mishot, Vig that dies if he guesses role/alignment wrong, my own ability was purely luck based, and so on. On August 24 2011 04:09 Ace wrote: Maybe you should take that up with Ver and Incog. Death Millers, or any role that flips the opposite alignment on death is generally a bad thing as the Town is going to have incorrect reads for the rest of the game in relation to that player. Mafia of course gets a free pass. Bull. I call bull on all of you. The fact that people are using this to push me as red is ridiculous, because I never used cora's alignment as a determination of another players. All the vets of TL Mafia agree that the death framer was too strong, and you guys think that kita and grey would decide to put it back into the game untouched. Wow. No. | ||
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If town aren't critical enough and just eat up bullshit after bullshit they don't deserve to win. I don't care if all my reads are wrong. This is fundamentally retarded. STUPID DANDELION CLAIMED MEDIC AND SANDROBA IS PROTECTING SYLLO BUT HE DIED AND SUDDENLY MARV IS SYLLO WHAT THE CRAP IS THAT? | ||
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On March 16 2013 00:54 marvellosity wrote: IT wasn't untouched, it was tweaked with this Announcement thing. Otherwise we wouldn't have the opportunity to be talking about it now.. Keep squirming, slOosh. Ah yes. Scum Cora & Foolishness pulled an elaborate ploy to lynch himself to fool everyone's reads, and had it not been for your keen insight we would have been deluded into thinking he could have been town. Why, even the mods were fooled! Why, you exposed my dastardly plot to use corazon's alignment to draw false conclusions, before I even made any such posts! Bravo marv, you are the hero that this town needs. ![[image loading]](http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/images/smilies/applause.gif) | ||
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On March 16 2013 02:57 Oatsmaster wrote: sloosh, think about it. What use is a role that conceals alignment 12 hours after death only? On August 24 2011 04:09 Ace wrote: Maybe you should take that up with Ver and Incog. Death Millers, or any role that flips the opposite alignment on death is generally a bad thing as the Town is going to have incorrect reads for Scaling back to 12 hours is a sensible and possible nerf. Hinting that it may be false while the OP remains true and the hosts both confirming multiple times it is true is not a sensible nerf. | ||
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On March 16 2013 03:23 Oatsmaster wrote: What is your problem with Marv's explanation? The other game the OP was changed too. What are the hosts supposed to say if it was a 'real' death framer as you seem to think that it isnt? In personality 1, the frame wasn't revealed until the end of the game. All the vets agreed that it was too powerful a role. Marv's interpretation of the role. You may have the hosts announce and modify OP to reflect that a person is of a different alignment 12 hours after their death. My interpretation of the roleYou may frame someone's death so they flip the alignment of your choosing. In 12 hours a message will be released revealing the frame Marv's interpretation is possible, but requires a rock hard conviction that corazon was scum, and that his death was planned, and that a scum cora - foolish team, when they could have last minute lynched anyone of their choosing (and get more night KP and use up the next day's lynch), instead chose to lynch cora and use this ability. And the hosts have to lie until endgame, and to properly catch it we would have had to ask the hosts of his alignment in the 12 hour window. I find it highly more likely that my explanation is the true one (primarily based on the hosts lying issue). It could be that I'm wrong - but do you think my reasoning itself is unsound? If not, should I be called scum for holding a different perspective? | ||
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On March 16 2013 03:53 Oatsmaster wrote: Ok if your explanation is true. WHAT IN THE WORLD IS THE POINT? There is a point to the other way, because we may still assume that there are 5 mafia alive and that cora flipped town. There is no point to conceal role for 12 hours only. Its not a nerf, it makes it USELESS. I think you have it mixed up. I think that cora is town and assume that 5 mafia are alive. Marv thinks the opposite. 12 hours of information denial is pretty strong. And it's better than information denial, it's misinformation. If you don't think that working off misinformation is not that big of a deal for town, I don't know how to ... yea I don't know. | ||
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On March 16 2013 03:54 prplhz wrote: i think that kita was vague so that we would never know for sure what actually happened. that's a decent spin on a hidden flip and it's not as OP and annoying as a straight up wrong flip. with everything that's happened i don't really see why we should trust either the town or the scum flip so i'm just going to go with what i believed before all these shenanigans - cora was scum. On February 25 2013 08:38 kitaman27 wrote: 22. cDgCorazon as Palmar, lynched day two There are 5/5Mafia Remaining The current mafia kp is 3 (5/2 rounded up) How is that vague? | ||
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On March 16 2013 04:13 prplhz wrote: it also seems dumb with a fool/cora/sloosh/vivax/whatever scum team because they're simply all quite vocally opposed to marv and scum usually spread out and keep a relatively low profile, instead we have a bunch of posters who are all very active in opposing marv who has this thread pretty much under control. it's silly. So what's your conclusion? Are we scum? | ||
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slOosh
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On March 16 2013 04:27 marvellosity wrote: why don't you, I don't know, read the two posts I made about Foolish, read his response, read the various things about Corazon - i.e. his blatant survival instinct, his awful tunnel, his refusal to comment on Foolishness, his 100% surety that he was going to die when the rest of the thread had no idea if Foolishness was telling the truth. Go back and do those things, and tell me what's happening in this game. I think ... I figured out why I'm so bad ... the themed games screw with me. Nomination, PYPower, Liar Game ... all of it fits together... anyways, Yea so I shut up and did some serious reading. It seems like different play fueled my paranoia of you into a scummy interpretation. For instance, upon rereading you are right that cora's behavior around lynch is strange, but I would say that it is knowing that he has the power to control the lynch but choosing to instead martyr that gives himself away, not the he knew he was gonna die (probably because I've seen plenty of townies pull this "kill me so with my flip you realize player X is scum", which it seemed like what he was doing). Upon reading your two big posts I agree with and it was the kind of thing I was initially looking for when Foolishness initially made the case. When you picked out the kill order, I really believed that is a null point, because I saw a reason why I would want scum yamato flip first, and I think supersoft also said he wanted to flip yamato first (but didn't explain until later I think). What saw as scummy on review is that he went yamato => crossfire => marv, not yamato => marv => crossfire, because there would be no point in putting crossfire before marv. Again, same conclusion but using different information. I apologize the undue stress placed upon you marv. It's just the misfortune of having a new category of player I call themedtownslOosh which seems to play pretty poorly. Yea. Foolishness scum. My bad. If I'm still unreadable and you still want to lynch me that's totally understandable. In the meantime I'm just gonna have to build my reads from base up, unless you want me to focus on something neutral / less talked about to see if we come to the same conclusions. | ||
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We should lynch stutters695 tomorrow. On March 07 2013 07:45 Stutters695 wrote: Any start date works for me. Stoked for this. Let's start by looking at his pregame post. Pregame? Yes. I've learnt from the amazing Qatol that it is possible to use pregame material as information source. Take note of his enthusiasm as we dive in his filter. "Pushing Crossfire" On March 12 2013 01:42 Stutters695 wrote: Well I was going you'd guys get who I received but apparently not. I rolled Kenpachi. I'll take it more seriously though. I want joking about XFire though, nearly everything else was worthless trolling since that seemed to be his MO. On March 12 2013 02:00 Stutters695 wrote: Right now crossfire. This feels just like his mtg2 play without the scum claim due to different mechanics. I did miss the last ten pages or so due to sleep so I'm going to catch up on those now but I'd vote cross 100% right now. On March 12 2013 02:56 Stutters695 wrote: I don't think either are as sure as Crossfire but I'd definitely go Sloosh if people can't be convinced of Cross. Bugs I think we can definitely get something if value out of. On March 12 2013 03:26 Stutters695 wrote: I'm aware of that sloosh but here's what I take issue with: you haven't pushed him at all until recently (outside of one post) and you haven't said anything else. If you had spent all your time pushing him I'd understand but you haven't, you didn't weigh in on my blatant trolling, bugs noncommittal posting or Crossfires useless posts. Please tell us what you think about anyone but Yamato instead of coasting on something anyone reading v the thread noticed. And there's contradiction #1. He seems very certain that crossfire is scum, but he never pushes it himself. In the third quote he speaks as if he has put in effort and people aren't listening, which isn't true. He has put no effort in trying to convince people. The fourth quote indicates he is aware of how someone should play, that you should be pushing scumreads, and that if I were pushing my scumread then my scummy behavior would come out townie. So he knows that townies should be pushing reads. Funny, because he is accusing me of the exact same thing he is doing and calling me scum for. In light of his pregame excitement there is a total mismatch on finding such a surefire scum but not doing anything about it. "High level play" On March 12 2013 02:56 Stutters695 wrote: Sloosh I've never played with period but his few posts are so safe it's unreal. If he's wrong about Yamato he's fine because it still makes sense to lynch and if he's right he gets huge town cred for nothing. I saw someone said this is what he does so I wouldn't be adverse to a policy lynch or vig shot. I don't think either are as sure as Crossfire but I'd definitely go Sloosh if people can't be convinced of Cross. Bugs I think we can definitely get something if value out of. I've never played with stutters, or if he has he never made an impression on me, but from general feel of his filter and his post count it seems like he is a newer player getting his feet wet. He makes a comment that my posts are safe - very strange because if I recall correctly, I was the first and only one to shout this out when it happened. If by safe he meant lurking, trying to slip by undetected, it would be demonstrably wrong. It would be the way I would think a newer player uses the word safe. Instead, look at how he uses it. If I'm wrong, then I get away with it because I'm punishing bad play, so I'm culpable of high level scum play. If I'm right, then I am getting town cred for doing nothing. So ... the conclusion is I'm either really good scum lynching town, or scum bussing a friend scum, or town who got scum lynched but doesn't deserve any credit? What kind of logic is this? It's twisty logic that wants to push the idea that I am scum without the proper evidence / thought process to back it up. That's something mafia do. They try to make up stuff about why someone is scum, but because of the burden of knowledge, they can't do it naturally, as we see in this case. Unnatural ... everything On March 15 2013 02:07 Stutters695 wrote: Foolishness: I'm going to read some of his past games but I'm not sure I buy his trap. It's really his only post of value (aside from his meta analysis on Vivax based off of one of his scum games). He makes decent points but essentially all he said on Yamato was the vig shot was anti-town and so was the disappearing. His crossfire case is a bit better but again his whole case is based around an action and associations. If Yamato or cross flips town then everything in that post is random conjecture without any proof and he'll still have contributed nothing. He might make these types of cases all the time but I need to check it. I'm leaning scum but not my first choice. My gut tells me town on Marv. He saw the same things on Cross that I saw d1 and really seemed to be the only other person really pushing for Cross when it was headed towards WBG around 24h in. Through his filter I don't see nearly as much jumping around as people say (he's jumped between his top targets which i don't remember him doing quite so much but he's got reasoning behind it). What? Doing a ctrl+F on marv's filter, there was no use of meta in his analysis of crossfire. So why the heck is Foolishness' case poor because it is based on action and associations, but marv's case good? It's not like marv used meta in his case, so I'm assuming it would file under actions? And if a big name player came in with a case on crossfire, wouldn't you be glad? Instead stutters casually dismisses it as if he understands what's really up, as if he knows what constitutes a good case and what doesn't. I'm trying to type this paragraph and I can't even put into words how unnatural this is. He says Foolishness is not his first scum choice (not a conclusive but a reinforcing tell), and it's not marv either. So by conclusion it must be crossfire right? Well why is he starting to undermine Foolishness' case based on cross flipping town? What kind of zen level play is he pulling off? The more simple explanation is that scum Stutters wants to be on the right side of the lynch but has to make up stuff to try to do that. Unnatural. Scum. p.s. He reinforces the idea that he was "really pushing for cross" when my first point shows that he doesn't really. Inconsistent role usage On March 16 2013 01:46 Stutters695 wrote: only issue with that list is I'm not scum. I can see where you're coming from though. Anyway since I told the person I have to agree with in order to use the 1kp this cell has, looks like you picked a good target in your message, let's go with that ##vote: Vivax On March 16 2013 05:21 Stutters695 wrote: Town cross post count usually does seem really similar to mine. His complete lack of any content is what makes him scum, he's just more involved as town. On March 16 2013 05:51 Stutters695 wrote: The quality should show you something is wrong. I'd rather lynch sloosh over him just because if sloosh is scum it essentially confirms Cross as scum since the nuke would be his only saving grace. Still thinks crossfire is scum, still doesn't push the idea, chooses to shoot vivax first (why not crossfire?), and only when focused upon becomes very complaisant and switch it to Foolishness. And then there is some ... excuse that it might not work out because his buddy needs to vote otherwise. On March 16 2013 02:56 Stutters695 wrote: Votes are done via PM. First time he votes vivax in thread, but doesn't do it with foolishness. Some inconsistency to his fake story. So yes. There is my final case. If I'm wrong then my reads are probably worthless at this point. If I'm right I have a good follow up lynch candidate (someone people think is town!). The end. | ||
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I characterize stutters as a newer player, excited pregame but no excitement after game starts, whose thought processes' fit more aligned with a very mature mafia player, i.e. is unnatural. | ||
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On March 16 2013 07:42 Promethelax wrote: his meta you do not know his thoughts from a townie do flow his play is crap but he gets a bad rap just because he is a little slow ? If he is more of a newer player than it is more disturbing the things he says. | ||
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On March 15 2013 01:03 marvellosity wrote: I'll make it quite clear now. If I am alive at LYLO, then lynch me. Quote this post against me later. I plan to have all the mafia dead before LYLO. It's really easy guys. We are at LYLO. If marv is town, then mafia did nothing and all the vets played like retards and imploded while mafia lurked. Or marv is scum, the whole town got played hard, and we should lynch him today. ##Vote: marvellosity | ||
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The biggest information from the night kills was that Foolishness is town and that the bulk majority of his effort was directed at marv, and that cora was almost certainly town given the high KP. Marv admits himself that he looks terrible if cora flips town. Well cora did flip town but marv made up stuff to say otherwise. I felt strongly against that, but again, everyone else in town thought so too. | ||
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On March 17 2013 01:35 Oatsmaster wrote: What are you saying here? That everyone sheeped marv so his play is invaild? huh? I'm not commenting on marv's play here, I'm commenting on my own. | ||
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On March 17 2013 01:40 Oatsmaster wrote: So how in any way is this related to marv alignment? You want to get him lynched, you got to put in the work. Lol ok Oats is scum too. I was never using the explanation to push marv. He wants me to put in work to get marv lynched but he himself isn't pushing for anyone's lynch. At LYLO. Lazy scum busted. | ||
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On March 17 2013 01:51 Oatsmaster wrote: OMGUS. Put your vote on me then? I want a multitude of people lynched. Currently thread sentiment is in the way of cross. And im happy. So that works, no? If you think we are gonna lose the game. What are you gonna do? sit and whine? Maybe next time Oats you will remember to cover all your bases. Maybe. | ||
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I am open to talking to anyone else. Also don't let yamato's case get buried. Have nice day. | ||
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Hiro here chose to use it on SnB, someone in whom he barely shows interest at all. Liar. Lynch him tomorrow. | ||
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On March 10 2013 16:51 HiroPro wrote: are you Palmar corazon? feels to me like you're trying to imitate someone you're not. He could have checked yamato? Of all the checks he could have made, he chose SnB, someone who he barely mentions at all in his filter. He is a liar. GG. @austin scum only need 1 mislynch in the game to win. They can do whatever they want without fear of repercussions if it means they get the final mislynch. Would townHiro do what he did? | ||
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Only me and Vivax have been active this game, so between the two of us we fooled everyone and put us in LYLO at D3? The marv problem isn't going to go away for the exact reason you stated - he can just WIFOM and say "oh scum wanted to do this", and it will get progressively more difficult to land the correct lynch as days go on, because a single misplaced vote can => last minute voteswing victory. Please reconsider. | ||
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3rd party I'm assuming you guys are the last hope for town given we didn't get end gamed yet. Get the shot right. see you dudes at daybreak / endgame. | ||
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