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On February 28 2013 07:53 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2013 07:46 VayeshMoru wrote:On February 28 2013 07:45 Toadesstern wrote:On February 28 2013 07:40 VayeshMoru wrote:On February 28 2013 07:37 Toadesstern wrote:On February 28 2013 07:34 VayeshMoru wrote:On February 28 2013 07:32 Toadesstern wrote:On February 28 2013 07:30 glurio wrote:
I actually really don't wanna vote for VE, all his comments about possibly not lynching prom based on whatever mood he has?
Why are you pushing for VEs election toad? There is a chance that he'll just lynch you, he already said that before. I don't get it. he's kind of stupid and emotional but there's no way he's stupid enough to lynch me. He knows that'll get him instalynched if he's mafia and it has to be a joke trying to make me rage if he's town, though I don't really see the reasoning for that one... Anyways, if Prom comes in 2nd there's literally no way any mayor we elect can pull bullshit on us. I like the idea and we can just ignore VE once he becomes mayor. At least that's my plan for d2. VE has day vigi'd people who he knew were town (as town) to attempt to get someone he wanted lynched. He has revenge killed people for getting him lynched on bad play. He has countless number of examples of this style of play. You pushing for him this hard after his flip flopping of who he'd lynch compared to the steadfastness of Bh and drH baffles me. I think I'm more safe if Prom comes in 2nd. As I just said there's literally no way anyone can not lynch that way. VE comming in 1st while prom is not 2nd is kind of scary to be honest. He's incredibly volatile, incredibly emotional, as you just said but there's no way he could just not lynch prom if prom's the pardoner. As I said, VE being mayor isn't what I want at all but when I said it he was at 10 votes and the 2nd guy was at 5 votes... I'm trying to make the best out of it. I don't want VE in either position to be honest but we'll have to work with him I guess. Seriously stop dude. This entire play of yours is extremely anti town. I like VE. When hes on the ball he is a beast. Its getting him to that zone though and personally I find he works better at it with less pressure on him instead of more. However you just said "him for mayor isn't what I want" and then describe him as volatile, and emotional" after calling him stupid. If you were town you would not want this man in office. Toad is scum / third party I don't want him in office. I have to deal with him being in office though. That's the issue. Straight up lie. given how many votes have been swapped getting drH or BH into office would have been easily possible. We also have both seen vote swings done in the past that put people into power or into being lynched no one thought would happen in the last few hours / minutes. if you wanted someone else you would have pushed for it. I don't really feel like it given that I asked to be replaced out or I'll ragequit this game because of VE. I'm sadly not allowed to do either so again, I'll have to deal with his stupidity and the way I do that is by flaming back everytime he shoots at me and trying to ignore him as much as I can in the meantime. Yeah I know completly ignoring him would be better but it doesn't work that way for me. For references something from 2 (? or 3?) games ago. Talking with syllo (he wasn't in the game): + Show Spoiler +Original Message From syllogism: Okay, I just hope you won't do that when I'm playing =P Show nested quote +Original Message From Toadesstern: because the dude keeps calling me a retard and a liar and I'm fed up with him... can't believe they haven't seen the DT and medic claiming. The medic actually claimed 3 times in the thread ... I'm actually considering to out the medic because there's no way that mafia hasn't seen that at least once. Original Message From syllogism:
Why are you drawing attention to a DT? Perhaps you are assuming mafia reads carefully, but usually if town fails to notice something, mafia certainly will as well.
(I don't know anything about the game, just trying to figure out if you actually have a reason for wanting to out a DT)
You could try defending yourself reasonably and not letting him get to you. If he's going to act that way, let him be the only one. Don't let it be a cancer to the town.
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I'll be making a case later for vigilantes to nightkill layabout, if my reads are correct. JungleJorge must be the next to die by the lynch or from a dayvig. I can think of absolutely no other reason for his behavior.
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I don't give a shit who is claiming credit. Everyone can ignore Toadesstern's bloviating about confirmed townies or whatever he thinks is going on. For now, there is no reason for us to be patting ourselves on the back and handing out town awards to anybody. Already we're talking about sheeping? Get a grip, town. What matters now is who dies next, not who gets credit for this.
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I missed the explanation of your change of thought on Promethelax. My question is why didn't you see the martyring in his post? He had an opportunity to defend himself against my pressure before he went AFK before his farewell and he chose not to. Even without the time to properly do so, a townie would definitely be more aggressive in defending himself against the accusations. It was emotionless, deflated, that's what I'd expect.
On February 26 2013 18:25 JungleJorge wrote:
I believe promethelax is innocent and I may expand on that if necessary, but it should be painfully obvious to anyone reading this thread how much traction this wagon got based on very poor reasoning by most of you. Much of the "scummy" behavior you have been pointing out is exactly the opposite of what scum normally tries to accomplish when they post. I suggest you revisit prom's filter and think about why he would post some of the stuff he has posted if he was indeed scum. I plan on being more specific later, but I'll give you guys some time to figure it out by yourselves.
I would also like you to take a look on The Macho Man, as he is my best guess for scum amongst the "active" posters. Again, I'll come back to expand on this as well. See you guys in a few hours.
MachoMan is the easy choice. A trolly player who has been mostly unclear about his intentions. Surprised he wouldn't go for Vivax, but I think Vivax is scum anyway so that would explain it. But first, let's deconstruct this gem:
Promethelax is likely scum. I made that post specifically to see how he would react (as you noticed I didn't provide any reasons). Mostly my concerns were that too many people were pushing for his lynch and there was no opposition to it. Also the main reasons for the suspicion on him was some sudden change of mind or some controversial behavior, and those are normally townie traits.
The thought begins by establishing that JungleJorge thought Promethelax was scum all along. He then claims the point of his defense toward Promethelax was to get a reaction out of him.
1. Why would a townie looking to pressure someone they think is scum do so by defending them?
2. Why would a townie ever intentionally defend someone they suspect of being scum?
3. Imagine you are scum being assaulted by town. Along comes a townie to defend you. In what way does this illicit a reaction or response from you? Would you thank him? Why wouldn't you just focus your response on your accusers to try to get free? The fact that Promethelax even responded is INCREDIBLY canned and staged. After all those people hammering him, the person he suspects is the single person defending him? Idiotic. This was a staged argument imo.
"Now onto his reaction to my post: as town he would never come to the conclusion that I'm scum in that spot. What would be my interest as scum in defending a player everybody else thinks is scum? For town cred?" - This is absolute nonsense. If you are scum, you would know who is confirmed as town. The reasoning is simple, defend the mislynch then reap in the cred when the person flips green.
"I'll refrain from expanding my thoughts on macho man from now as to not derail this lynch." - Great.
Vig JungleJorge. Out of everything happening before Prom left the game, he chooses to focus his response on JJ's defense? I don't think so.
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On February 28 2013 09:41 The Milkman wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2013 09:36 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
I'll be making a case later for vigilantes to nightkill layabout, if my reads are correct. JungleJorge must be the next to die by the lynch or from a dayvig. I can think of absolutely no other reason for his behavior. Well, JungleJorge's plan reminds me about one of my crapshoot plays in my early days but... Well, it was too abstract and wrong. Like I am not going to stop you, but I think we might have better alternatives. Just a gut I feel somewhere. As for layabout, as a person who played with him and things did get tense in the past in the games we played I am not that sold he is Mafia, but I'd be glad to read your case and talk about my doubts then, so we have something concrete to talk about.
My read on layabout was based on a misunderstanding which I corrected upon reading his filter. I feel that he's likely town after doing that. He didn't appear nervous or eager to distance himself from me after I attacked him, so that's good too.
Having gut feelings is ok, use those to guide you when you decide where you're going to look and use your brain. Then you make a decision.
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EBWOP - Layabout - I missed the explanation of your change of thought on Promethelax. My question is why didn't you see the martyring in his post? He had an opportunity to defend himself against my pressure before he went AFK before his farewell and he chose not to. Even without the time to properly do so, a townie would definitely be more aggressive in defending himself against the accusations. It was emotionless, deflated, that's what I'd expect.
Vigilante - shoot JungleJorge tonight.
On February 26 2013 18:25 JungleJorge wrote:
I believe promethelax is innocent and I may expand on that if necessary, but it should be painfully obvious to anyone reading this thread how much traction this wagon got based on very poor reasoning by most of you. Much of the "scummy" behavior you have been pointing out is exactly the opposite of what scum normally tries to accomplish when they post. I suggest you revisit prom's filter and think about why he would post some of the stuff he has posted if he was indeed scum. I plan on being more specific later, but I'll give you guys some time to figure it out by yourselves.
I would also like you to take a look on The Macho Man, as he is my best guess for scum amongst the "active" posters. Again, I'll come back to expand on this as well. See you guys in a few hours.
MachoMan is the easy choice. A trolly player who has been mostly unclear about his intentions. Surprised he wouldn't go for Vivax, but I think Vivax is scum anyway so that would explain it. But first, let's deconstruct this gem:
Promethelax is likely scum. I made that post specifically to see how he would react (as you noticed I didn't provide any reasons). Mostly my concerns were that too many people were pushing for his lynch and there was no opposition to it. Also the main reasons for the suspicion on him was some sudden change of mind or some controversial behavior, and those are normally townie traits.
The thought begins by establishing that JungleJorge thought Promethelax was scum all along. He then claims the point of his defense toward Promethelax was to get a reaction out of him.
1. Why would a townie looking to pressure someone they think is scum do so by defending them?
2. Why would a townie ever intentionally defend someone they suspect of being scum?
3. Imagine you are scum being assaulted by town. Along comes a townie to defend you. In what way does this illicit a reaction or response from you? Would you thank him? Why wouldn't you just focus your response on your accusers to try to get free? The fact that Promethelax even responded is INCREDIBLY canned and staged. After all those people hammering him, the person he suspects is the single person defending him? Idiotic. This was a staged argument imo.
"Now onto his reaction to my post: as town he would never come to the conclusion that I'm scum in that spot. What would be my interest as scum in defending a player everybody else thinks is scum? For town cred?" - This is absolute nonsense. If you are scum, you would know who is confirmed as town. The reasoning is simple, defend the mislynch then reap in the cred when the person flips green.
"I'll refrain from expanding my thoughts on macho man from now as to not derail this lynch." - Great.
Vig JungleJorge. Out of everything happening before Prom left the game, he chooses to focus his response on JJ's defense? I don't think so.
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Don't care for the summaries of what we already know. I look forward to hearing your real thoughts after reading through it all.
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I take particular issue with the wording of "Why would I as scum defend a player everyone else thinks is scum. For town cred?" Aside from the obvious answer being, yes, you're not defending him at all since you just admitted in that same post that you thought he was mafia all along. Secondly, "everyone else thinks is scum" implies some sort of division between your thinking and the thinking of the actual town. You are included in that group by the logic of your own post, so why not "We"?
The other obvious answer there is to defend a teammate, but WoS actually pointed out something I was thinking earlier. I think Promethelax's bus was decided very early by scum due to his activity issues. I need to take a close look at Toadesstern. I'm less confident about JJ than I was before, his interaction with Prom is way way way damning for Promethelax (he essentially claims scum in his last post) but I might be hitting a bad townie here. Either way, it's a fair shot and wasting a vig bullet on a problem player is better than wasting a lynch in my opinion.
I'll be rereading the filters of JJ and Vivax in the meantime since Vivax plays into this as well. I'll try to roll out my final thoughts before N1 is over incase I'm hit, otherwise I'll save my next big push for Day 2. For now, I want to discuss the nuances of JungleJorge's logic. Let's give the metareads on grush a rest for right now. At least JJ should be able to defend himself.
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ANYWAY ABOUT JJ AND THE RECENT FLIP
I can not see the motivation for scum to respond to and attack his sole defender unless that sole defender was inserted as part of a mafia bus. It's too entirely convenient that JungleJorge got just the response he was looking for when he went about applying pressure in a completely backwards way. I need a much more comprehensive explanation of your reasoning JJ.
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On February 28 2013 11:16 The Macho Man wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2013 11:11 MilkSuckler wrote:On February 28 2013 11:08 The Macho Man wrote:On February 28 2013 11:02 VayeshMoru wrote:On February 28 2013 11:01 VisceraEyes wrote:
It's explicit in my posts, I have nothing to fear. geript is scum so fear him you should not why do you say that? i see no super scummyness in his filter he attacks some of the huge names in the threads for whatever reason and seems to have no fear On February 27 2013 11:17 geript wrote:
Fine then Dr. You think I'm scum. Bring the case. looks like a misguided townie to me Macho... I asked Milkman before to tell me who your top 2 reads were. he couldnt find ithem. Frankly. i dont care who you think is (misguided) town, cos scum know who is town. Please be all macho and provide your top two scum reads. when i feel like it brah i lik mye town reads they are easier and almost always right.
Your town reads are worthless to us and you're going to get lynched down the line if you play like this.
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On February 28 2013 11:17 JungleJorge wrote:
My light went out right after I proposed to elect prom pardoner, so I was unable to be more useful with my vote. I will be glad to be lynched/vigged whenever I'm wrong about someone. Until then I ask you to bare with me. And stop calling me bad because it's irritating and most of you doing it suck. I did conclude that prome was mafia and ended up voting to lynch him. Now, you may believe I'm scum and was bussing, but until then I'd like to have my posts read and not dismissed.
I am reading your posts, help me understand them. I wrote quite a bit, feel free to respond to it in detail if you would. Why would you be glad to be lynched for being wrong? When is a person being wrong ever a justification for a lynch of vig shot?
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I just want to understand why you chose defense as pressure. How did you anticipate prom would respond like he did?
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On February 28 2013 11:45 JungleJorge wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2013 11:39 DoctorHelvyetica wrote:
I just want to understand why you chose defense as pressure. How did you anticipate prom would respond like he did? I actually didn't. I was honestly leaning town on him until he made such response. Some aspects of his play looked suspicious, while others were too loose and carefree, thus town looking. I opted to make a defense without stating my reasons to get responses mostly from other players who were not commenting on his lynch. I suspected that if I started the trend and he was scum soon enough other players would join me and provide their own reasons. Obviously what I got was much better, basically a scum claim from prom in my eyes.
That helps me a lot. Thanks. I'll be reading elsewhere tonight then.
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On February 28 2013 11:48 MilkSuckler wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2013 11:45 JungleJorge wrote:
Obviously what I got was much better, basically a scum claim from prom in my eyes. Please expound
Attacking his defender is basically impossible logic for town. If prom was town then jj would have been correct, there would be nothing to criticize.
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On February 28 2013 11:54 MilkSuckler wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2013 11:49 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On February 28 2013 11:48 MilkSuckler wrote:On February 28 2013 11:45 JungleJorge wrote:
Obviously what I got was much better, basically a scum claim from prom in my eyes. Please expound Attacking his defender is basically impossible logic for town. If prom was town then jj would have been correct, there would be nothing to criticize. Yes; but JJ talks as if the reaction was intentional. Maybe hes a super duper mafia player or whatever, but yeah, I dont see how that action is claimable for town cred. If anything the action of prome, sealed his fate.. but also leaves JJ as null/leaning scum (I outlined reasons before)
I thought so too but apparently I misunderstood.
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BC, how have you done nothing so far except for buddy me? You're better than that and you know well enough that those kind of things tend to throw me off.
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I think we should lynch Vivax. Go look through his post, he started off by saying the best way to find scum is to find people that take the game seriously instead of trolling. After putting a bunch of people in that category, he was only willing to point a finger at JJ. Not actively interested in the Prom case but spends a ton of time only to slap a null read on there.
The way he reacted to me initially calling me out is troubling. He didn't OMGUS but did have a bunch of insults and mockeries to throw my way.
I'm getting kinda woozy and doubtful, I hate night 1 because I start rolling over in second guesses. I need to reset my head. I'm nowhere near ready to start reading Toades' filter, I'll need at least 2 more beers before I attempt that.
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On February 27 2013 11:05 ObviousOne wrote:
Take another look started where I began posting ~9 hours ago or whatever and tell me what issues you have with that outside of me asking people questions that I want answers to. If it's still "seeming interested" then yeah, maybe you're right. I'm actually pretty bored with D1 right now.
I'm contributing of my own volition, not because you're asking me to. I could lurk like fuck and skate by like the other cats who have decided to not play on D1 much or at all, but here I am bearing my thoughts and I am mostly getting shit on for it.
Yeah, that's about the end of it I guess. Vig ObviousScum.
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I apologize for my lack of critical thinking after the Prom flip. I'm gonna try to get my shit together today. I'll be looking at Toades most closely.
Geript's fourth point against you makes enough sense that you should at least explain yourself, VE.
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Geript, I ran for mayor when I didn't even want to be mayor. Am I a liar too? Do you think both me and VE are scum? You accused both of us of wanting pardoner. What better way for scum to secure pardoner than to have two scum in the frontrunning?
VE, I only meant that I'm curious why you would step down if you had confidence it would be okay to just push Prom Day 2. Just fear of a nightvig for not killing Prom or what?
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EPT
