EPTThis Town Ain't Big Enough Mafia - Page 96
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
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Acrofales
Spain18425 Posts
On March 04 2013 02:18 Oatsmaster wrote: Acro, what do you hope to gain out of waiting? So yamato isnt scum, is Hapa scum? Time for discussion. Time to decide. Time for both to put up a fight. Maybe they both convince me they're town and this was a colossal mistake. Maybe someone brings up a good argument that I haven't thought of for one of them being town/scum. Have an open mind and make an informed decision. That's my role here. You want to throw away the open mind and informed part there and just default straight to "make a decision". Why? How are you SO sure that Yamato is scum and Hapa isn't? I haven't seen any actual reasoning out of you in quite a while. You seem to be reading other people's cases and just agreeing with them. What are your own thoughts? | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
Look at Yamato's case, he is twisting Hapa's reasoning. Hapa wanted a double lynch, Yamato expected Hapa to vote for a candidate. Blatantly wrong. Also his really random defense of Snarfs is not what I think a townie would do. There is no point, there was not much pressure on him anyway. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18425 Posts
As for Yamato's case, I really don't want to comment on it too much before Hapa gets back here to address it. I think it has some interesting points and I feel the whole situation merits discussion before we just jump in and lynch someone. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18425 Posts
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Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On March 04 2013 02:43 Acrofales wrote: I get the feeling you're defaulting to Yamato being scum BECAUSE Hapa is town. That makes no sense to me. As for Yamato's case, I really don't want to comment on it too much before Hapa gets back here to address it. I think it has some interesting points and I feel the whole situation merits discussion before we just jump in and lynch someone. On March 04 2013 02:44 Acrofales wrote: Oats: why are you against discussion? "I really don't want to discuss anything, but why do you not want to discuss anything Oats?" | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
Although I realize now that its not all bad, useful discussion can still be obtained. I was just pissed off at yamato for doing what we blatantly said not to do and what he criticized Adam for in the first duel. ##Unvote | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18425 Posts
On March 04 2013 02:45 cDgCorazon wrote: "I really don't want to discuss anything, but why do you not want to discuss anything Oats?" Yeah, lets take cheap potshots twisting my words. I am happy to discuss pretty much everything, but there is a reason I want Hapa to comment on Yamato's case, because I can think of many different reasons for lots of the things he said. If Hapa is scum and we all go around making up reasons why Hapa did what he did, all he has to do is come into the thread and say "yeah, what Jimmy said is what I thought about that at the time". However, Oats seemed deadset on lynching Yamato before Hapa is even back in the thread. THAT is what I meant with avoiding discussion. Cora, what is your opinion of Hapa? And while we're at it, what do you think of Oats? | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
Why is that so Acro? | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18425 Posts
On March 04 2013 02:47 Oatsmaster wrote: Im not against discussion, I just think that yamato is playing anti town with his duel, and with the earlier question marks about him, that makes him scum. Although I realize now that its not all bad, useful discussion can still be obtained. I was just pissed off at yamato for doing what we blatantly said not to do and what he criticized Adam for in the first duel. ##Unvote You were pissed off at Yamato. Do you think his early duel makes him more, or less likely to be scum? | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18425 Posts
On March 04 2013 03:18 Oatsmaster wrote: Im confused as to why Hapa needs to be in the thread for me to make a read on yamato. Why is that so Acro? Where on earth do I say that? I just want Hapa to respond to the case, because it'll help my read on HAPA. If I decide Hapa is scum, then I don't think Yamato can be. | ||
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Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On March 04 2013 03:16 Acrofales wrote: Yeah, lets take cheap potshots twisting my words. I am happy to discuss pretty much everything, but there is a reason I want Hapa to comment on Yamato's case, because I can think of many different reasons for lots of the things he said. If Hapa is scum and we all go around making up reasons why Hapa did what he did, all he has to do is come into the thread and say "yeah, what Jimmy said is what I thought about that at the time". However, Oats seemed deadset on lynching Yamato before Hapa is even back in the thread. THAT is what I meant with avoiding discussion. Cora, what is your opinion of Hapa? And while we're at it, what do you think of Oats? I'm pretty sure my vote shows my opinion of both Yamato and Hapa. Oats is a bit more iffy for me. I've made some earlier posts attacking him earlier (middle of page 3 on my filter), but I pursued my read of Syl and kind of backed off on Oats. I'm thinking that he is a weak town read at best, a weak scum read at worst. However, this lynch is not about Oats. It's about Yamato and Hapa. Yamato has not addressed the arguments I made against him and decided to just go out and duel Hapa. What else can I say without him giving any rebuff to my arguments? | ||
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Adam4167
Australia1426 Posts
Yamato is scum for reasons previously discussed. Hapa is town for reasons previously discussed. | ||
yamato77
11589 Posts
On March 04 2013 03:29 Adam4167 wrote: ##Vote: Yamato Yamato is scum for reasons previously discussed. Hapa is town for reasons previously discussed. And the Hapa = Town reasoning is...? No comment on the case you said I wasn't going to build? This is just lazy. | ||
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Corazon
United States3230 Posts
Explain: -Your 180 on Acro -Your unnecessarily long town read on Snarfs (basically, did you need to do that?) -Your ambiguous read on Zare (is he scummy or not?) -Your feeling to just duel Hapa without allowing him to refute your arguments. Please and thank you. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On March 04 2013 04:28 cDgCorazon wrote: @Yamato: Explain: -Your 180 on Acro -Your unnecessarily long town read on Snarfs (basically, did you need to do that?) -Your ambiguous read on Zare (is he scummy or not?) -Your feeling to just duel Hapa without allowing him to refute your arguments. Please and thank you. Acro's OVERALL play is pro-town. His OVERALL play and appearance is something that looks very town. The doubts I have about him are things that may or may not indicate that he's mafia, but let me tell you, they are very good heuristics that catch mafia. It's those same heuristics I'm using to put pressure on Hapa. My read is not a 180 completely, but I feel that he is more likely town if Hapa is mafia, which I currently think is the case. Town read on Snarfs was going to be part of a longer analysis of every player in the game. It didn't happen because I had other things pop up, and it's not that important that I analyse all my town reads. That said, his name was thrown around as possible mafia, and my points are good ones for why he is not. Should shut that discussion down before it ever begins to catch on. My read on Zare is not ambiguous, you just can't read. On March 03 2013 18:44 yamato77 wrote: ##Duel Haphauli He and Zare probably last two mafia. Everyone else is LIKELY to be town. All of these points could have been addressed with a look at my filter. You guys are lazy, getting worse. I dueled Hapa because everyone sits with the same sheep reads on these days. We've been playing off reads from N0 for two days. It's time to make stuff happen, and I'm pretty sure he's mafia. If he's town, this will almost assuredly motivate him to prove it, but I don't think he will. There's zero reason to call me mafia for any of this anyway. As I mentioned in my case on Zare, the scummiest thing about me is how I handled the D1 lynch, which was odd from an outsider's perspective. I TRULY WAS surprised at Adam's duel, and that muddled my read on the situation. Also, I TRULY WAS seeing the potential for town Keir in his read on Adam. Ultimately, however, I thought about it more and reached the conclusion that Adam probably wasn't mafia. My vote on Keir was a weakly justified one, because I really just wanted to push a lynch through, but would I have pushed the Keir lynch through for the sake of lynching someone if I was mafia with him? I don't think so. I could have sat on Adam and pushed him while implicitly allowing the double lynch as a result. That's the crux of the situation here, and why people are calling me mafia. Anything else is weak, and very shallow. I believe Hapa is by far scummier than me, as I outlined in my case, and this should undoubtedly prove to you all that I am not all talk and no bite. I've only been hesitant so far because of the thread's initial reaction to these propositions in the past, which was overwhelmingly negative. The unfortunate thing is that Adam is attacking me for being hesitant, and everyone else is attacking me for not being that way, so I'm fucked both ways on this. The better thing to do here is to put some real fath in my read on Hapa and see his flip through. If you guys don't agree with me, fine, but lynching me lazily as is happening now is not good for town. If I get lynched, so be it, but it better not be without SERIOUS discussion on why people think Hapa is town. I, for one, know him capable of playing the way he is right now as mafia. Read Dessert Mini, and compare it to this game, it's quite similar. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
Regarding the Yamato Case His case is based on three things: 1) My "Uncommittal" Stance on the Day 1 Duel 2) A "Strange" Quote about the Dieno Duel 3) My lack of presence during the Day 2 Duel 1) My "Uncommittal" Stance on the Day 1 Duel Basically Yamato cherry-picks one of my quotes and points fingers that I was uncommittal about the Day 1 Duel. This is complete garbage. For one, it was very clear that I was committed to voting Kei. Why? Because I was CONVINCED that Adam was town because of his dueling actions. There are many posts in which I make very clear that I had zero intention of voting Adam. A couple of examples: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398360¤tpage=38#748 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398360¤tpage=39#780 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398360¤tpage=40#783 Yamato thinks that because I didn't pick an arbitrary scumread from the two, I was non-committal. That's bullshit - I had strong feelings that Adam was town from the outset of the duel, and if that's not "committal" I don't know what is. Yet Yamato cherry-picked one of my quotes and thinks it's possible that "scum-Hapa" IMMEDIATELY took a stance that would have forced "scum-Hapa" to lynch his scum-buddy. 2) A "Strange" Quote about the Dieno Duel Yamato thinks this quote is suspicious... On March 01 2013 09:29 Hapahauli wrote: Oh Dieno pulled the trigger. That went easier than expected. Anyway, by default I want you both dead. It's up to both of you to indvidiaully convince me that I'm wrong and that you're town. ...because it "seems" planned. Response: lol 3) My lack of presence during the Day 2 Duel He's right about though, I wasn't home for most of Day 2 and didn't get the chance to comment much on it. However, Yamato once again has to explain how Dieno was my scumread on Day 0. Spoilered below for your convenience: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398360¤tpage=26#514 + Show Spoiler + On February 26 2013 08:06 Hapahauli wrote: ... My other scumread outside of the above is Dienosaur. He's been far less active than I remembered him being in Chrono Trigger Mafia. In addition: 1) His response to Adam's case feels very very forced: When Adam calls him out, he's super-confrontational to the max, and wants to create this glorious showdown between him and Adam. However when Adam slightly backs down: The bolded is what gets me. If he thinks Adam is scum (previous quote), why should he give a shit what Adam thinks? In addition, it's a huge emotional 180 from someone who wanted nothing but confrontation only 1 post ago. 2) His "Map" I remember him drawing a Map in Chrono Trigger (as town), but this one feels different. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398360¤tpage=18#343 He draws his map here, but doesn't offer any actual reads until Yamato prods him for it. He then offers a bunch of completely noncommittal reads: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398360¤tpage=18#345 | ||
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Adam4167
Australia1426 Posts
On March 04 2013 04:21 yamato77 wrote: And the Hapa = Town reasoning is...? No comment on the case you said I wasn't going to build? This is just lazy. As you wish. I'm at work for another 4 hours and then I will go over all of these things. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
He called me scum over 48 hours ago, promising all the way to provide a case against me. Since then, he's never given me an opportunity to explain myself, never asked me a single question, and has never attempted to interact with me. Then last night, he plops a case down at 5am and pulls the Duel trigger. That's not a town thought process, much less a town-Yamato thought process. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
WHAT NOW BITCH | ||
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