EPTTL Mafia LIX
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Mocsta
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On January 17 2013 14:59 Oatsmaster wrote: Policy lynch Mocsta if he plays horribly. Well now I get to change my game the way I intended to, pre-game.. Once I rolled what I did, I had to stay the same  | ||
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Enjoy the game. | ||
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(for mayor) | ||
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On January 18 2013 13:47 AxleGreaser wrote: But to err is human to make habit of it Kush. And that... gentleman.. is why I am voting AxleGreaser for MAYOR. | ||
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This is my first game with the big boys. So i will not run for mayor. In my head i do not understand.the commotion behind an incorrect lynch day1. I thought this was normal based on probability? Obviously the role holds great game changing power so i am looking for transparency in play and rationality in thought. Best of luck to all candidates | ||
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On January 20 2013 18:25 Oatsmaster wrote: So what are you gonna do about the fact that everyone agrees with Toad? They do?? Last I checked, there was 4 votes for Chezinu, and 1 for Toad. Either way, I am not interested in forming the town - lets all jerk each other off - vet circle that Toad is trying to lubricate us towards. @yamato77 (1) If you were in pole-position for the "job".. is your Day1 lynch target Toad? On January 20 2013 13:50 yamato77 wrote: I've already been scumhunting. I don't like what Toad wants to do today, & (2) Are you satisfied with sandroba response? (i.e. made a decision not to campaign prior to game start) On January 20 2013 13:51 yamato77 wrote: Which makes sandroba's "I'm not running for mayor" post a huge fucking red flag in my eyes. Why would any town player not want the chance at being mayor, especially someone with his reputation? It offers protection, something he sorely needs if he is town. | ||
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On January 20 2013 20:28 Djodref wrote: @ Mocsta Why are you interested in yamato ? He has declared himself running for the mayor role; I have a due diligence to inquire further regarding motivations. Personally, I have concerns Vivax comes in and has sheeped Sandrosa so openly. I am actually even moreso concerned that Vivax is pushing others to bandwagon him, without pressuring his read.. what type of mayor candidate is this? I know I am off the training wheels & now in the big boys league.. but even in the newbies we know to ask pressure questions before campaigning for a lynch. @Vivax Start living up to the promise.. I expect more from you. Vivax I will use my vote aggressively. My major influence in steering the outcome of a lynch will be applied to pressure people. No passive play with me, no feeling comfortable in easy bandwagons. You are scum? I will pursue you! You are town? I will test you. | ||
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On January 20 2013 21:36 FiveTouch wrote: ##Vote: austinmcc 2 posts to your name.1 post to the thread. & 1 mayor vote with 0 justification. Let me guess, your voting austinmcc due to this meaningful contribution? On January 20 2013 12:52 austinmcc wrote: greetings, wank-fiend! | ||
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Since your here.. regards: JieXian..
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On January 20 2013 21:56 Djodref wrote: @ Mocsta Answer my question please  http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=393344¤tpage=17#330 I assume you did your due diligence and read that before commenting; so the synopsis: You put shit in.. you get shit out. Would you like to ask a more defined question to me? | ||
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On January 20 2013 13:24 grush57 wrote: Hello everyone. I am town. I am running for mayor, FOR STARSENSES! ##Vote: Grush57 @Grush57.. I have a problem, and your the man to fix it. STARSENSES... Why are you unleashing your "famed" town breadcrumb so early. 1 Post in, and going for the trademark. This is scummy as fuck to me. + Show Spoiler + On January 15 2013 05:32 Promethelax wrote: But I think he is town, at first I thought the green starsenses was different than his usual bread crumb but I went and looked. LVII Hero LVIII so I'd say he is town. Just annoying not here town. | ||
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On January 20 2013 22:11 Djodref wrote: @ Mocsta Sorry, I didn't see your answer. Do you really think yamato is going to be elected today ? I personally don't think so becauset yamato didn't "officially" campaign, and he is not known to have good reads so... If not, I'm curious to know what raised your attention in his posts. It doesnt matter if i think yamato is a candidate with a chance to win, I represent one vote out of 22. I thought yamato campaigned passive-aggressively; just like Toad. Its an approach I am oft in favour of when attempting to look squeaky-clean whilst attempting to manipulate. Having said that, its not pertinent to determining alignment. At least not with the information we have currently. | ||
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On January 20 2013 22:29 Djodref wrote: Fair enough. Just one last question, are you familiar with yamato ? Have you played with him or read some games of him ? Do you think that you can have a better read on him than on the other players here ? I have played with yamato before.. I suspect others would have had significantly more game time with him than I. No; my meta is very poor reads; I am sure you have read the commentary associated with my name in the obs qts. Its nothing I can hide from, hence, why I am being candid about it. My rebuttle to the above is that... whilst my reads of tells have been incorrect, I have nonetheless been able to identify the tells. With more experience, the tells will become more accurate. Thus, I do still think my opinion should be valued, regardless of reputation/non-vet status. | ||
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On January 20 2013 22:31 Vivax wrote: @ Mocsta Can you tell me why asking for a JieXian lynch isn't pressure? Do you want me to direct a question at him before asking for a lynch? Ok fine. Why it isn't pressure? You are attempting to dodge the crux of what I raised. Why are you getting others to do the dirty work? This is scummy as fuck 12hrs into Day 1, and further compounded with your mayor campaign. I just came off a game as scum, and my tactic was identical to what you just did. I was constantly asking what others thought, to determine the status quo of who to lynch. So yes, as you answered for yourself, I want to see direct pressure, and hands getting scum-fucking hunting dirty. | ||
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your reason for voting yourself are the same reasons all 22 of us can regurgitate. So the point is moot. By elimination, your best judgement so far is Toad. Noted. @Austinmcc I would like your take on Vivax/JieXian i.e. Do you support the pressure/vote campaign Vivax instigated against JieXian?; Regardless of whether you support the vote campaign, can the action that Vivax took be attributed to town motive? & Please share your current top scum read, so that I can get a feel for your judgement in general. | ||
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I agree on chezinu. He needs to input more to the thread. I was expecting a lot more from him considering the reputation and kneepad job debears gave. But i dont like at all voting austin off that 1post. To me either u fling your vote with wild abandon .or. Know something special i dont.. Cause for concern either way. Having said that. I liked austinmcc answers to my questions BUT this came after you voted. fivetouch The other strong candidate .at least in toads eyes. Is gonzaw. Assuming both are town. Whose reasonings so far are u going to stick with for a vote and why.. | ||
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That is the easiest time to buddy up to people as far as i am concerned. I think the q is valid. Between gonzaw and austin u have chosen austin thus far.. The reasoning being 1 post that made u feel like cuddles afterwards. Is that how u vote for your politicians too? Fact. Both have shared scum read insight since.your.vote. I want to know which candidates insight aligns best with you and why. | ||
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On January 21 2013 10:08 Djodref wrote: Does yamato look town enough for you ? I could see him sherrif right now. Why? I haven't seen anything that sticks out as specifically pro-town. Perhaps you can enlighten me. | ||
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On January 21 2013 10:31 Djodref wrote: You aren't necessarily pro-town when you are town  Yamato sticks out, has strong opinions, looks emotionally involved and his main concern is to find scum. That makes him town in my eyes ^^ I have yet to see a sound reason to enlist yam as mayor/sheriff from your list. Has strong opinions? That doesnt mean they are right, and certainly does not indicate if motivated to aid town. Looks emotionally involved? So is susceptible to formal/informal fallacies Main concern is to find scum? Is that not all our perceived concern Day1 - caveat: if playing active For me, I like Austinmcc so far the best. I like his approach to answering my questions, and felt some of the points he raised mimicked my thoughts. Having said that, I am still waiting for more information to digest before issuing a vote. | ||
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I am going to read his filter in more detail when I have time, and see if I agree with him as a lynch candidate; Overall, I am not sure why we are pushing a guy with some posts (Oats) instead of the 1/2 posters like Debears though? | ||
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On January 21 2013 11:34 Toadesstern wrote: I wasn't talking about right now but in general. I do know that it's 3:20 CET. About why me or Vivax: Because those two are pretty much confirmed town. I'm a bit more so than vivax but the paranoia is too strong in people. I look at my opinion as impartial. I am not familiar with your meta, and read it directly as I see it. Your methods in the first 12hrs boded well with me, but not enough I felt compelled to say anything. However, your approach now, that you have seen a smidgen of light is off-putting. I cant tell if its because you are excited at a chance you didnt think you had though.. all i know is, it leaves a odd-vibe with me. @all Those with better meta-reads of Toad than me.. what do you make of him buddying up with Vivax? I thought Toad was adamant on not sharing town reads, because it was easy for scum to do? Now he is declaring Vivax as a top town read? Thoughts? | ||
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On January 21 2013 11:58 yamato77 wrote: This game has turned into exactly what I didn't want it to. A bunch of useless campaigning, some dumb town reads and a bunch of people sitting on an easy scum read. Are all of you convinced scum are just sitting on their asses not trying to get themselves or others elected? Keep up that attitude, and you will get my vote. | ||
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Having the two towniest fuckers voted in? Or having a towny guy known for good reads? I thought we were banking on #2? If its #1 its a whole diff ball game, and I would contest we don't need to consider Vets for the role.. if anything those are the guys who KNOW how to be perceived as town, especially Day 1. | ||
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Vote for mayor.. I can see why you thought it was sarcastic, but it was serious. | ||
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On January 21 2013 12:10 Toadesstern wrote: There's reasoning behind it and noone of importance has an issue with it for a reason :3 I presume you are referring to vets as being the only people of importance. Just remember, theres 22 votes and 2 spots. My vote means something; whether you want to acknowledge that or not. | ||
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It wasnt that he pressured his read (JieXian).. it was the method chosen to enable this pressure. He did not qusetion JieXian at all (giving him the opportunity to mount a defense as you yourself just said is critical).. rahther he used him for his mayor campaign.. and was getting others to do the dirty-work for him.. This whilst directly sheeping sandrosa comment on JieXian.. it was fuckn suspicious behaviour. Im not sold on oats play.. but i see nothing wrong with him pointing this out either. I dont see his butting heads with Oatsmaster as indicative of shit.. I was butting heads with oats last game.. he was town.. i was mafia. If you want to play soggy-biscuit with all the vets fine.. but I want substantiated reasons why I should vote for *YOUR* recommendations..not just.. im a vet, do what i say...OR.. im a vet.. your opinion is not relevant. | ||
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On January 21 2013 12:18 Djodref wrote: But I think we should privilege a player looking obviously town than a good player for sheriff. Hence my candidature Noted that you followed up on Clarity not once, but twice. Please indulge your scum read/lynch candidate if you were instated. I would like to see some detailed insight too pls. | ||
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that listing was stupid, and contains all the active vets. your trying to canabilize active players for whatever fallacies you choose. I am suspicious of Toads motives currently; but there are also a bunch of people who have posted SWEET FUCK ALL in over 24hrs.. How convenient that we are canibalizing.... As for oats being scum.. I said I would read his filter. When I get home from work, I will do so. Djo's points on oats, on first glance read well... but will make up my mind after filter check. | ||
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Are any of you willing to lynch Grush? He is my best scum read so far, and i WILL share my vote with you, if you are willing to lynch him first. His filter is full of fluff. And his response to my question is still scummy as all fuck. | ||
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On January 21 2013 13:51 gonzaw wrote: Don't really know what to think of debears/grush; they are not making much sense and are kind of "trolling" with their votes and some of their reads, but that's too null to blindly lynch on D1. Awesome next time i roll scum. I can troll and post fluff. Knowing im safe to day2 guaranteed. Cheers... | ||
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K sorry for sarcasm | ||
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On January 21 2013 14:03 grush57 wrote: Mocsta would you rather lynch someone who is acting scummy or someone who posted "fluff". People are discussing lynching me and if no one was scummy then I would definitely get lynched. I just hate day1 Preferably someone fluent in both. I dont think its black and white. Playing scummy can fluff. E.g kush playing scummy can not be fluff etc etc and the only one raising your name to the bar is me. Dont know why u think ur up for contention. | ||
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On January 21 2013 14:03 gonzaw wrote: EBWOP: Oh well nevermind. Speaking of which Mocsta, what do you think of Stutters and Clarity? I don't remember you mentioning them in your filter. Thats because i didnt. When reading the filters was pretty empty. Perhaps thats a sign. Will re read when i get home and share maybe 6hrs time | ||
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toad gave reasons for vivax being town. I thought they were subjectve as fuck. From memory the stand out reasoning was howw he could post his campaign and be active in qt if scum there is no fcuking way vivax typed that first post afyer the game started.. It was premade and in no way is indicative of alignment. If toads disagrees wit this then his reads overall should be put into question. Btw with a premade case...it might make sense to take a breather if u rolled scum and needed to plan. But.. Why listen to me. Im not a vet and so to toad my opinion doesnt matter | ||
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(i.e. posting a [pre-made]campaign is indicative of town play) Now you are using meta to make your judgement. I obviously don't share that experience with you. From my perspective its an informal fallacy. Im not saying Vivax is scum; Im saying Toads rational for declaring him openly town to me is weak at best, and contradictory at worst | ||
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Im very close to handing you my vote for Mayor. Overall I like the vibe I get when reading your filter. I think your approach has been reasonable, I don't agree with everything but that is also to be expected. Before I hand over my vote, I would like to know "Out of the current candidates with a fighting chance, who would be your choice for Sheriff?" (& why) | ||
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In short: I don't like what I see. Austinmcc really said it all; theres nothing of substance in there. The other concern is that he said he was catching up on the thread 15hrs ago, and hasn't commented since. Stutters695 Who are you voting for mayor; and who do you want the mayor to lynch (i.e top scum read) & why. | ||
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TL;DR: I would prefer to pursue other scum targets, but will accept Oatsmaster for the lynch. I still think people are "cherry picking" his filter to suit their interpretation though. I had to read his filter about 4 times, because each time I kept changing my mind. My problems with Oats is that: (1) He has really turned DOWN the [intentional]aggression. and really turned UP the [emotional] aggressoin. which is odd.. a null tell overall though (but with (2) and (3) gives me concern) (2) Most of his responses are when pressured, and when he does try to pressure the questions are lacking in quality.. having just played a game with Oats as town, I can see a stark contrast (we also MAJORLY butted heads that game) (3) He keeps asking others for scum reads, but is not providing his own. Perhaps its due to the vet factor (i.e. trying to find his place in the scheme of things) I know I am a bit more reserved this game; if this was the case, point (3) would make sense due to lower confidence.. but (2) is still not explained and even (1) to a lesser extent is not explained To me Oatsmaster has not been obviously scummy in his play, but due to his changes in aggression from what I know familiarly of him, I am comfortable with his lynch - on the proviso of no better target. In regards to cherry picking: the items raised for his scumminess is due to him wanting to run for mayor and defending JieXian.. personally I find both tells null. (a)Fuck, I would love to be mayor but I have enough common sense to know I dont have the respect of the majority so don't see a point. perhaps Oats is the same, in fact I suspect he would be in that regard. So for me the tell is null. (b)As for JieXian, I have already said this prior, I took fault with how Vivax approached his 'scum read' pressuring. I am not really sure why Oats copped heat and I didn't. I see this action as null as well, as its easy for scum to break up fights and stick up for others; but also beneficial to town to prevent mislynches etc. | ||
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On January 21 2013 17:50 Oatsmaster wrote: EBWOP: Fucked up the formatting. First bolded, how is that aggressive? Looks like you are nitpicking on my opening post. Second Bolded, I was reacting to 5touch who was pissing me off. 3rd Bolded, Vivax said that, not me. read the whole post in context so you actually find scum and not town. Seriously.. your BBCode is more fucked than Axle.. you did the same thing last game. When you quote, you remove the name, and assume people will know who your talking about. Fuck me, the bolded part is under "gonzaw" but YOU ARE ONE who said it.. ffs | ||
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What you extrapolate specifically what I am "oversaucing" when it comes to aggression? Considering i put forth the hypothesis of vet syndrome, I don't really know what you are implying here. And why are you even talking about LYLO.. its Day 1... and lastly.. "dont like lies".. what is the lie? | ||
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You say Vivax intentionally lied about Oats quotes. (Some of) The vets say Vivax is town. Where does Vivax lie for you? (pun intended) -i.e. Is Vivax a scum or town read for you? If he is scummish in nature, I would like to see you pressure him for information. | ||
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If my vote went your way... Will u lynch jimi hendrix over oats? Are u concerned that mr.brown bear could be sheriff and has barely inputted to the thread? | ||
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Nice hit on jimi hendrix FTIts been a real pain in the ass to catch up on this thread.. most of it has been mayor/sheriff posturing so I don't have anything significant to comment on even though 12-15 pages went by; Other than I need to re-read the Vivax interactions in that period. Im not sold on him being town, so need to seriously ponder if I think he is scum. | ||
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On January 22 2013 10:57 DearestSnot wrote: Mocsta why is it that you never once mentioned prpl before this: Because I had nothing to contribute further on purplehaze. 5Touch points sounded convincing, and IIRC everyone else was bantering about his meta. I said myself before, I went through Oats filter and found aspects questionable so whilst comfortable with his lynch, I would have preferred someone else. Lastly, it was clear 5Touch was becoming mayor, and I wanted to know if he would lynch prpl instead of oats. he did. and the right choice was made. | ||
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On January 22 2013 11:23 austinmcc wrote: I believe it was mocsta who voted me in the thread but not in the voting thread itself? Wasn't me. | ||
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On January 22 2013 11:36 grush57 wrote: Hooray d1 is over an a scum got lynched. Grush. your still my #1 read. Maybe I am tunneling because of your insta-insert of ya "Starsenses" tag line; however, your filter history since that post has done nothing to persuade me otherwise. All I see in your filter is:
To me, nothing of note, otherwise known as flying under the radar. Whilst town may fly under the radar to avoid NKs or watever; I find it very peculiar you are tying in lurking in the shadows with your "STARSENSES"/ I AM TOWN first post. @Grush57 I want to know your read on Oatsmaster and why. | ||
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On January 22 2013 13:22 yamato77 wrote: Mocsta I don't think grush is scum, and I don't think accusing him is going to make it more evident even if he is. I would spend your time looking at other players. Funny, coming from me, but Grush plays like this often. Only time will tell with him. Yamato, Something you are well aware of.. You pressure your read until either: (1) Convince you they are innocent or (2) Convince you they are scum Grush has not convinced my he is innocent, and has given me no reason to even consider him as innocent. Maybe for everyone else there are better reads, but for me he is my best until (1) or (2) is satisfied. | ||
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I can agree with (4) completely. In regards to (3) I would stop if a suitable reason is given. I respect the vets, and do not have a problem listening to them if the reads are substantiated with proof. Telling me.. "Grush is town because I am a vet, no more needs to be said " doesnt cut the mustard for me and is my my opinion an "appeal to authority". A fallacy I choose not to indulge in. BTW. I don't recall anyone actually sticking up for Grush i.e. (3)? Im happy to be corrected on this one though... Unless of course if you meant vets ignoring my stance on Grush, as indication they disagree. | ||
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) | ||
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lol twas @ yamato.. i probably shouldnt have just admitted that, but made me laugh too hard | ||
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The vets obviously know more about the game than we do.. they can use that experience to aid us, or abuse us.. I think they keep saying.. "vet says do it this way" to test if we have the balls to think for ourselves. if we capitulate and give in, we are just useless townies that town/mafia vets can exploit as needed. If vets provide substantiated reads; at least I can make a judgement on whether they are trying to help town or not. | ||
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On January 22 2013 14:31 yamato77 wrote: What he means, Mocsta, is that he was aiming those two points at me. My appeal to you to discontinue your pursuit of Grush is that I don't think anything he is going to do in response to your accusations is going to change your mind. Disagree. Why are you stepping in for Grush before he has even responded? If you think he is town from his filter, I would prefer you to direct me to what I am missing. If you think I am being a hypocrite for asking why you interjected, note, I called out Vivax because he was campaigning for others to dig up dirty of JieXian at that point in time, and potentially sheeped Sandroba. Grush is my read, and Im doing the followup work. Completely different situations. | ||
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On January 22 2013 14:44 yamato77 wrote: I'm not discouraging your read, I'm just telling you that spending your time trying to make Grush do stuff probably isn't going to work. Noted, and that is the case in point. The more he resists, the stronger the evidence. | ||
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I woulda thought at this stage with the pressure on him, he would be working to exonerate himself? | ||
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In his first post, he already attempts to associate himself (subtlety) as town. Not because he said "I am town" -everyone says that - but because of the breadcrumb. Which he can conveniently play later in the game as "I am town, this is my trademark". I took action to remove the card up his sleeve. If he wants to be considered town, he needs to prove it through his actions.. not token trademarks. Either way, what directed me his way was the early breadcrumb. But why I have continued to call him out is due precisely to his play. If you are telling me that after doing a filter check on Grush he is seeping town through his pores, then it makes clear sense why you are a top lynch candidate for Day 2. | ||
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On January 22 2013 15:00 Toadesstern wrote: I fully agree with what Bugs said about Grush. Furthermore you have to distinguish between people you want to be shot and people you want to be lynched when looking at people you want to see dead. That is if you have the luxury of doing that. Lynching Grush would be an awfully terrible idea right now. Because of what bugs said. If that guy ends up flipping town we gave mafia the easiest time looking like they're doing something for an entire cycle because all there is to him is that he's lurkish, useless and ... well grush. Everyone can easily attack him for that and look like he's doing something. Analyzing what happened afterwards would be really hard as well because there's no reason not to want Grush dead, so I couldn't possibly held people accountable on their actions when choosing to vote Grush or not to vote him. That's the kind of guy you want to have vigged if you want him dead and not lynched. Not saying he looks townish at all, he doesn't. He's unreadable right now, which is a bad sign considering that I've got at least 50% of this game down as preeeetty certain town right now. So process of elimination works fine with him sometime later as well, which tells me to ignore him again. You want to lynch people who are looking scummy while not being easy to take a stance on. That's literally everyone who's not a policy lynch because even if it fails, you get something out of that. Now THATS the vet type insight im looking for, even though its elementary for you guys. Noted; I have said my piece to the vigis out there and will move on. | ||
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On January 22 2013 14:53 Oatsmaster wrote: Also, why are you so butthurt that Toad keeps spouting that 'vets' reads are more important? Do you want to feel important? Join a mini then :D Just in case you didnt realise. When I said speak of the devil it was in reference to you. As for this, its nothing to do with being butthurt. I will presume you posted that before reading this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=393344¤tpage=56#1113 If I was a vet, I would be doing exactly the same thing: emotional blackmail of sorts. Its fucking effective too. | ||
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On January 22 2013 15:10 Oatsmaster wrote: Useless post Mocsta. Ok so who would you be willing to lynch at this point? Why dont you tell me the flaws in my approach if you think it is useless? Noone else is standing here saying they think Grush is town, yet you feel the need to step in. Why is this the case? | ||
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On January 22 2013 11:02 FiveTouch wrote: Honestly, prplhz's mafia flip just makes Oats look even worse than before. You asked me to look into an alternative scum read.. This comment from FT piqued my interest. I did a filter search on you with "prplhz" and found little content other than asking Toad to follow up on mr.hendrix (as he said he would). I also happened to notice this... On January 21 2013 22:21 Oatsmaster wrote: Ok on to FiveTouch, He is leaking town through his pores, but I dont want to vote for him because day 1 lynch will be a mislynch. Me. However, if he changes his target, I would think about voting for him based on his reads. Now I know that you later responded to FT by saying you dismissed the case.. but... I find your declaration of prplhz being a mislynch to carry too much conviction for me. Considering I already thought youe had scummy qualities about your play (Mocsta summary of Oats) The prognosis is NOT looking good for you being town. So Oatsmaster.. still a useless post?  | ||
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On January 22 2013 15:47 Oatsmaster wrote: Mocsta Apparently you stopped reading after you found something that substantiated your point about me thinking that prp would be a mislynch. Must be an honest mistake and not you trying to misquote me right? Really? On January 22 2013 15:39 Mocsta wrote: I also happened to notice this... Now I know that you later responded to FT by saying you dismissed the case.. but... I find your declaration of prplhz being a mislynch to carry too much conviction for me. ... If that is an honest mistake of yours.. then your a moron.. | ||
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On January 22 2013 16:06 Oatsmaster wrote: Mocsta. L2R. [b] Must be an honest mistake and not you trying to misquote me right? [b] Going on to the might be scum read due to the fact that you dont want to admit your mistake. You can read me however you want. But I added in your reasoning you gave to FT.. it was not relevant to what I pointed out which was that the conviction in your post reads as if you knew 100% who is mislynch and who isnt. That type of certainty is either over-confidence, or you have information others don't. Considering this game in general your aggression has been toned down, I can not attribute the read to over-confidence.. that leaves us you have information others don't. In fairness, I did not consider you could be a mason .. but I cant see a reason for you to mason prplhz, so this again becomes moot. | ||
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On January 22 2013 15:49 DearestSnot wrote: Mocsta you should read more carefully. Oats was against electing FT because FT wanted to kill him. Upon rereading and looking back at things I actually think Oats is town. Anyone agree? As soon as FT is back perhaps he can explain further why he thinks Oats actually looks worse, because I disagree on that. Noted on what you are saying. I re-read.. I did not think my critique of Oats was related to him being against FT election however? It was related to his conviction in saying prplhz was a mislynch. Perhaps you realised this so if you went out of your way to pointing it out prob means Im missing a piece of the puzzle?!? | ||
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On January 22 2013 16:24 Oatsmaster wrote: Mocsta, last time I am mentioning this, its fucking stupid. I am saying that his mislynch WOULD BE ME, cause thats who he said he was gonna lynch at that time. I have no idea how you twisted it into prp would be a mislynch. Read the quotes properly next time so you dont accuse someone on a made-up argument based on misreading a quote. Fuck sorry man.. your right Thats embarassing. I apologise and will go back to work. Obviously I cant multi task. | ||
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On January 22 2013 16:31 Mocsta wrote: Noted on what you are saying. I re-read.. I did not think my critique of Oats was related to him being against FT election however? It was related to his conviction in saying prplhz was a mislynch. Perhaps you realised this so if you went out of your way to pointing it out prob means Im missing a piece of the puzzle?!? Bugs pls disregard.. i misread.. which was teh piece of the puzzle. | ||
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Man. Still feel like an idiot. Gonna come back after work. Maybe 6hrs | ||
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How come me and axle would be safer mason choices? | ||
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On January 22 2013 22:38 AxleGreaser wrote: EBWOP On the basis of Lynching Scum D1 I take it? I know its uber ballsy as a scum Bus for Mayor to Lynch a team mate but..., but doesn't the 3 vote situation kind of level that? Are there any conditions under which you would no longer be "guaranteed to be town, these are both really out of place." Just asking for your reasoning and any limits you have on your new status. Axle, I know you inherently complicate matters. FYI, I thought about the bus situation for town cred as well.. but... I dunno I just get this feeling from FiveTouch. He's what I was trying to be in the Newbie games but obviously knows what hes doing. I also know all the newbs wouldnt vote me, but kept saying I was this scum mastermind when I was just trying to be pro-town. (bit like yourself in this game to FT). so im willing to concede if he scum hats off to him I just got schooled majorly; and thus the conclusion: to me the best course of action is to go hes fuckning pro-town as and accept it and support him. Theres better scum targets out there to use your time on. | ||
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On January 22 2013 22:12 FiveTouch wrote: I would like everybody to read Vivax's case on JieXian, made shortly before the deadline. Please tell me why you agree or disagree, and what conclusions you have. I read the filter first. Cliff Notes
Thoughts on Vivax Case
Overall
If he was trying to be useless/inactive townie, he could have taken a much more subdued approach. Whilst not all these points are indicative of scum play individually; together, they sum to what I think is scum play. | ||
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Its hard, they know each other obviously, which does remove a lot of formalities out of the equation. As for guaranteed comments; its about consolidation, you need trust in the mayor, and using those comments is meant to be subtle confidence booster for you that the right decision was made. I wouldnt read too much into . Your not meant to judge the guy off one line in a post. Your meant to judge by his actions. Hes dead right in what he said before. He was one of the (few) vets to broach the vet/non-vets; and I think has been transparent in his reads that he has shared. Couple that with the confidence boosters, and we have a leader who knows how to lead Axle. | ||
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On January 23 2013 10:36 gonzaw wrote: Unless some of them were a vig shot. That just blew my mind, didnt consider it.. Woulda still like to see Grush added to that list though His running into the thread and declaring himself Mason doesnt cut it for me - as if he didtn see Yamato post- doesnt cut it for me. (Not that I assume he lying.. just its complete WIFOM so I am discarding the post from my judgement) | ||
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I would consider lynching you right now, regardless of if your town. You make me not want to read your posts, which in fact could be an EXCELLENT strategy if you were scum. I tend to drag my points as well, so now I try and create a base in notepad of what I want to say before I start typing in the thread. This might help you, dunno? | ||
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I am struggling to determine whether its genuine or WIFOM (i.e. setting traps) I ask because this behaviour is very new to me. | ||
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I had a pretty major day at work, so don't have formalized reads to push right now. But to promote some discussion, what do you make of the (lack of) activity from Chezinu? I know that is has been discussed as *very* unreadable, but we are now ~8hrs into Day2, and he is on a 2page filter. Is that normal for him? Especially considering he campaigned for mayor? | ||
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I dunno I just didnt like the way Annul got pissed at Bugs. I know Bugs was antagonising, but I seen only one other town ragequit before, and he still tried to be helpful before quitting. When i get home tonight will have a read of Brood and Annul and Gonzaw since those 3 seem to be the higher profile targets for Day2. | ||
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On January 23 2013 21:18 Vivax wrote: Scum hit 3/3 despite the huge insecurities in play. Especially the hit on sandroba was super risky. If they took that risk they should have taken the risk of hitting Bugs just to be sure, but they didn't. They went in precisely like a swiss clock. They took two players that weren't particularly threatening for them and that weren't particularly threatened by a lynch. Vivax.. why do you know scum hit 3/3? | ||
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Not disinterested, just IRL stuff.. these are the thoughts in my head without reading filters.. take it as you want.. im more a gut feeling player anyways (which is prob why my reads are so fucked) Toad: Hes probably town for me; when he speaks freely/quickly I find him a bit erratic but its prob more to do with frustration. But every once in a while he says something that just makes me want to cast doubt. Regardless, if I was to judge his actions overall, off a whim, I think town motives. Gonzaw: I was about to start reading his filter, but since you asked, my impressions as of now are: made a good impression on me at first, and was one of the only vets responding to me.. as FT came about, he has really faded. AND IIRC he hasnt followed up on his promises (reads etc). My other issue with Gonzaw is association with prplhz... b4 prplhz had heat on him, Gonzaw was one of the ppl he was soft "buddying" to. ATM null, need to confirm if the (lack of) follow ups are correct. Yamato: hes got a pretty hot-head.. I *Assume* as scum would be hard for him to control the emotion.. so far he has swapped gears quite a lot; has tried to contribute here and there; but i dont think he ever followed up on u.. perhaps due to Toads insistence.. i would say leaning town. Annul: I haven't paid attention to him Day1, just the interplay between him and bugs today.. even with bugs persistence, i thought his ragequit was over the top; have to read the filter, but off that ragequit i would say leaning scum. Vivax: No fucking idea.. somethings you do just put so much public attention in my head only a VT would do that.. but then, some of the your actions just dont agree with me so I think scum.. but thats a gut feeling and prob just means i don't (personally) like your style.. one thing i learnt was, if a guy is really pissing you off, hes prob town... so based on that heuristic, i will say town Grush: Even though you didnt ask, and i dont want to sound like im tunneling. I really dont like whats hes doing. Hes ignored my pressure (what ever) but coming in with the yamato mason stuff was just foreplay..im still waiting for the good stuff.. I cant even see a reason to have masoned yamato anyways, the whole thing is as odd as the NKs .. i mean.. djo was making some sense at the end.. but fuckn JX? Im going to read Annul/Gonzaw filter now, and hopefully dont fall asleep. | ||
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I didnt like him day 1, a lot of him game IIRC was prodding and asking others for assessment. Night1 he came back with his own reads. They didnt appear far fetched, so to me, he was making sense. Noted on those 2, will look at it shortly, still doing other stuff. Vivax.. whats your take on yamato? | ||
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If you dont want to talk about Yamato.. how about share some vet insight on the grush/yamato mason. I dont care if the mason is scum/town at this point.. why would a mason want to contact yamato at that point in the game? | ||
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On January 23 2013 23:33 annul wrote: who didnt see this coming please dont smurf next time, or if you do, tell me its you, so i can /out before the game. Annul sorry this is important for a guy like me who doesnt have context. You and Palmar seem to have a history? Whats the cause for the /out? | ||
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On January 23 2013 23:41 Oatsmaster wrote: Anyway, just to give some context, my last game was almost a month and a half ago, Im going to return the favour, and take this as an honest mistake. We just played in a game together last week... NewbieXXXV... FiveTouch even referenced you and me bickering in it. | ||
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On January 23 2013 23:40 Toadesstern wrote: palmar kind of did a hitler video about Annul and me once :3 OK. so nothing to do with Palmar has super reads on Annul? | ||
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On January 23 2013 23:47 annul wrote: the context is palmar has yet to play a game with me where he did not push for my lynch. he has done so in games where i have been green, where i have been red, and where i have been blue. it doesn't matter -- there literally has not been a single game i have played with him in it where he did not push for my death. in fairness he is much less aggressive with it this game but i sense it is because he figures others are doing the work for him Annul... there are still 20 players that have a vote Please dont give up just because you assume FT may be Palmar. Im going to read your filter soon, and will have some questions ( I hope).. I would appreciate if once they are ready you could take the time to address them. Thanks, | ||
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On January 23 2013 23:48 FiveTouch wrote: What counts is that you were immediately suspicious of Mocsta in the game you just finished playing, and in general you were suspicious of many players Day 1. Which is the complete opposite of your attitude this game. Oats I have to agree with FiveTouch completely on this one, and its NOT sheeping Night 1 I I raised points about your character: even a guy like me with bad reads noted the complete drop in aggression. The games I seen you play prior, you were fast and loose and would go after anything and everything. Perfect example is your reaction in NewbieXXXV during the Day1/Night 1. You made cases/voted on like 5 people in a couple hours. This game, I have noted you have picked and chosen when to display your aggression. Quite often I notice you make an aggressive post,and then back down. There is a distinct lack of follow through (which was also noted in my points about you). I had a quick check of your filter, and still see nothing that directly indicates your scum reads. If you want to take it further, the FT quotes comparing you talking to CC and JX, are a complete change in style. Considering I just played a game with Town oats, I feel confident that you accusing CC as scum from 2 posts *IS* your standard way to think. | ||
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On January 24 2013 00:20 Oatsmaster wrote: Ok, the difference was with CC I was the one pushing the lynch JX, I was a bystander and felt that it might snowball. I dont think its that straight forward.. lets take a look @ Oats uber aggression in Newbie XXXV His 1st post in the game On January 13 2013 00:52 Oatsmaster wrote: Mocsta stop being useless and repeating what other people have already said. This is after 4 or 5 posts. On January 13 2013 08:58 Oatsmaster wrote: Mocsta, you are looking awfully scummy. In fact, im gonna vote you. After I show how you are scum On January 12 2013 16:38 Mocsta wrote: BUT.. you are almost sounding "paranoid" - I know this, because after my last game, many assumed I was "paranoid". What is wrong with sounding paranoid? Do you instantly believe what the other person says? This is scummy because Town wants paranoid players to find scum and scum want believing players to manipulate. ... Mocsta, either shape up or die. ##Vote: Mocsta Ironic, as town you think paranoid is good. In this game you are against JX because you thought it might snowball? This doesnt match up to me and this game was ONE WEEK ago. Here is another example of Oats tunnel aggression. On January 13 2013 19:37 Oatsmaster wrote: Instead you focus on somebody who has been active, playing his previous town meta, and has been trying to promote activity while defending himself from you. I think he is scum. Is that not a good enough reason? So again.. if this is his standard play.. why is he trying to jump in and randomly defend people all the time? This is a complete contradiction in his normal play. And heres the cincher FiveTouch missed On January 14 2013 21:19 Oatsmaster wrote: Which game? My first newbie game was fucking horrible and I was town, My chrono game was different because there were 20-30 people, I was one of the few newbies, It was my first actual game. So yeah, since then, I have become more confident to pressure people. Question to Oats Why did you change your playstyle from your previous game if you won there as town Are the differences scummy? or just different? Oats admits hes confident since Chrono ( a game with vets)....; stark contrast to this. On January 23 2013 23:51 Oatsmaster wrote: ... Here, I shy. Please share thoughts people. | ||
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On January 24 2013 00:40 Oatsmaster wrote: Mocsta, I have become more confident to pressure people. Uhuh, so other than the start of the game, which was poor play which I already addressed, Wouldnt you say im more confident than in my Chrono game? Well the game I know intimately is Newbie XXXV as that was one week ago. I also know we butted heads majorly. You were town. Either way, what has poor play got to do with anything? You quoted directly before you were shy. I found evidence specifically stating since Chrono you feel confident in your play. FiveTouch comments on your change in aggression regarding nominating people as scum within 2 posts.. and you respond by saying you are now suddenly shy. Why are you lying Oats? | ||
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I know this is a lot of a non-vet to ask of vets, but can you please put your discussions on hold. I feel like you two are discussing semantics - i am not saying the discussion is invalid or inappropriate.. just : Concurrently we have a case mounting on Oats, based on facts in this game and meta from a game I just played with him. I would really appreciate if you could share your thoughts on what FiveTouch and myself have raised over the past 2 pages. | ||
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On January 24 2013 00:50 Oatsmaster wrote: Cant a guy try to make a joke and be cute about it? Apparently not. Anyway, gonna sleep now. Vivax, please think before you post. [Insult intended] Scum qt suggested that was the best course of action? | ||
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On January 24 2013 00:52 Vivax wrote: Where's the analysis of gonzaw and Toad you promised? Now that Oats has conceded/gone to bed. I am about to read annul/gonzaw filter (i dont remember saying i would read toads) Still, I would appreciate your thoughts on Oats with what was presented. P.S. I really meant no offence with my comments, just, i didn't want to detract from what I thought was solid evidence (and still do) | ||
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On January 24 2013 01:04 Vivax wrote: I already said Oats is town. I said it when I read he's your bodyguard, I said the same about debears. Nothing has changed about that, go read. I'm not talking about why I think he's town. That's his own job. This is also in answer to Mocsta. Vivax, with respect I dont agree with what you just said (not the oatsmaster part). The way you phrased your answer, its as if, you think oats is town and have not not read the points raised. If you have indeed read the points raised, can you please point out the flaws in my logic. At least that way i can better focus my scum hunting, and as town we all want that - right? | ||
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On January 24 2013 01:22 Vivax wrote: I'm not defending Oats. You're not getting my vote for lynching him and that's all, I'm not going to pick your points apart in an attempt to convince you that he's town, I'd much rather convince you to lynch scum. Im not asking you to pick everything apart. FYI I am 50% through my write-up on Annul. If you could answer one thing though please. what do you make of the whole oatsmaster quoting he is "shy" and the quote I found regarding his confidence since Chrono. Do you recognise the same thing I do? Oats is lying about feeling shy, as a cover for his premeditated drop in aggression. | ||
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I have spoilered it, because I dont want to de-emphasise from Oatsmaster + Show Spoiler + TL;DR I think he is probably scum (I also think Oatsmaster is probably scum)
I apologise for the cluster of text.. as I was writing it, more thoughts came to the fore. | ||
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My first choice is Oats, then Annul I haven't gone through Gonzaw, sorry for being so slow.. its 1am here, and with now 2 ppl i feel strongly about, i dont see the point in reviewing Gonzaw + Im stil awaiting you commentary on Oats with the shy/confidence lying. | ||
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On January 24 2013 01:57 Vivax wrote: That you could be scum I mean. Right.... Are you always this disruptive in play? I cant help but feel, your pissed I asked (politely) to put on hold the chat with Toad. Regardless, what do you think of my points about Annul? | ||
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On January 24 2013 02:07 Vivax wrote: The huge CAPSLOCK parts you put in there also suggest you wanted to achieve some show/omg-effect by pointing out various things like that. But you seem to not be too convinced yourself by these oh so thrilling revelations since you don't want to lynch him before annul. Really bad acting there. You love delving into semantics dont you? Did you consider, CAPS LOCK is a lazy way to bold Anyways, i dont understand what your problem is? I was firm on Oatsmaster before reviewing Annul; I dislike Annul but we can only lynch one person a day. I still rate oatsmaster higher than Annul, so wheres the communication breakdown? | ||
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On January 24 2013 02:12 austinmcc wrote: I'm still under the assumption that both our elected folk are town. If that's the case, scumoats as a BG gives him a little bit of cover when he was under pressure D1 and would probably be under pressure D2. Mafia risks outing scum BGs ONLY if they want to kill FT/Toad before the bodyguards have been outed as mafia, and they gain some towncred for the mafia BGs so long as those two are alive. I don't see a lot of downside to scum BGs, or a scum BG, in that case. If your bodyguards live, that's a day or two holding onto 2 KP, and maybe you think being a BG gives them a better chance to survive than not-BG. If town still kills them, well, by installing mafia BG(s), you made it easier to shoot the elected folk. Regardless of any other strategy involved, installing mafia BG(s) just makes it easier to get at the officials, whether they out the BGs or not. That sounds very reasonable to me. Nicely thought out conclusion, agree fully. | ||
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On January 24 2013 08:58 DearestSnot wrote: stop assuming things about the number of mafia masons, the number is unclear according to the language in the OP. I was about to say the exact same thing. Ninja'd | ||
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On January 24 2013 09:05 Chezinu wrote: 5touch if you did get the logs, you should totally read my thread. There is a special number there. Its in bold. Chezinu.. I like this game | ||
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On January 24 2013 10:39 DearestSnot wrote: Also on a somewhat related note, he has received next to no suspicion all game. prplhz and Chez attacked each other but beyond that I don't recall anyone calling out Chezinu for trolling or anything of the sort. That's pretty strange, given that he's usually mafia bait. On January 21 2013 08:08 Mocsta wrote: I agree on chezinu. He needs to input more to the thread. I was expecting a lot more from him considering the reputation and kneepad job debears gave. On January 23 2013 17:38 Mocsta wrote: Toad/WBG But to promote some discussion, what do you make of the (lack of) activity from Chezinu? I know that is has been discussed as *very* unreadable, but we are now ~8hrs into Day2, and he is on a 2page filter. Is that normal for him? Especially considering he campaigned for mayor? LOl, was even addressed to you | ||
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On January 24 2013 11:05 DearestSnot wrote: I don't know how it works, actually. I simply assumed that if the BGs are dead then you can shoot the mayor/sheriff (even on the same night) Yeah, I figured if 1 BG is scum.. mafia need 1 Kp on the town bg, and then can use remaining KP on mayor or sheriff during the same night cycle. Either way this Day2 lynch is 1 vote.. so i see the logic in not touching the bodyguards.. if there is ony 1 town BG, and we lynch him my accident.. there is no more protection... So even though Oats is my top read, the associated risk is too high. I think best plan is to find an alternative target, whether Annul, BKE etc etc and reduce the mafia to 3 ppl.. they still will have 2 KP tonight.. BUT!!... if we lynch scum with the double vote Day3, we drop their Night 3 KP to 1... so can afford to use a double vote on a BG (i.e. Oats) | ||
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who would you prefer I have a look into. BKE or Gonzaw? Annual seems to have points for/points against, so there seems to be a hesitance in general. P.S. The shit-flinging one-track tunnel nature of Vivax over the past 24hrs.. that how I associate Oatsmaster play when he is town. He was doing the same thing.. just hitting up anyone that had an opposite thought.. Very stark contrast now... but yes i agree with the BG rational and think we should leave him today. | ||
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damn that was short. I think the host might have more posts than him... lol I compared the way BKE/Clarity handled their almost modkill activity levels (1) BKE On January 22 2013 09:57 BroodKingEXE wrote: I'm doing you guys a favour, Modkills are way worse. (2) Clarity On January 24 2013 10:59 Clarity_nl wrote: As far as I'm aware I have not been replaced yet, I apologize to everyone in this game. Had some irl trouble and I'm currently not willing to read 70 pages of mafia so I hope I get replaced soon. If I somehow missed it... errr, sorry for that too. Have fun all. Even though this was posted after modkill the apology feels genuine... contrast this to BKE who just says "ohh guys my bad" thats an "I dont give a fuck" attitude. Now of course, being only IDAF does not imply scum... but it is typically scum who have these attitudes. Lets see if he vindicates this attitude in his subsequent posts.
Conclusion BKE has an extremely low post count, but it is clearly evident he doesnt care about this game... The question is bored VT or scum. It hink even a bored VT has incentive to provide insight on reads, or just sheep votes blatantly. BKE does neither. When he does provide a reads, its just a Play by Play summary of actions; and when he votes, he provides very very weak justifications (again just actions).. This really does negate a bored VT attitude. I am fully comfortable with BKE as my vote this game. | ||
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im at work, so will look into Gonzaw & austinmcc prob when I get home, so like 10-12hrs time. The reason im looking into austin is due to the theory of one vet being a mayor candidate. I have to read gonzaw in detail but his posts about 5-6hours IIRC read genuine to me, I felt like it flowed and was the ramblings/musings of someone speaking their mind in haste... so without a detailed read i still get a townie vibe from him. So I think that leaves Austin?? | ||
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@ http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=393344¤tpage=97#1922 I think your overcomplicating things, the posts read as I said. Vivax was pushing me for commentary (IIRC multiple times) so I gave him my impressions off-the-cuff. To you: Gonzaw, Annul and Toad may have been central to the thread and been your focus. But they weren’t to me. My focus has been mainly on Oats/Grush, and just keeping up with the thread in general. I actually thought what I said about Vivax was solid.. i.e. usually if a guy is repeatedly pissing you off he is town.. scum generally cant afford to agitate people that much, survival is easier if you are forgotten. Im not sure why you seem to disagree with this? As for your other comments, Toad Don’t see how you are misinterpreting this? I find his fast-posting style coupled with direction he giving to be indicative of town. Everyone once in a while he says something that just makes me facepalm. So I am leaning town instead of probably town.. thought this was clear? Gonzaw Again. Don’t see how you are misinterpreting? I like his flow when he writes. Gives me a good feeling without any analysis. I said NULL, because I need to do an analysis of the actions to confirm motivations. Gut feeling isn’t enough. Your welcome to read my filter and ask me more questions, but I really think your over-reading this specific post. I even stated at the start of it that it would be off the cuff? And I feel like your targeting me with this post because my priority filter reads do not align with yours. I don’t think that is indicative of alignment, its indicative of different experiences and thought processes. | ||
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On January 24 2013 12:18 DearestSnot wrote: The only player who has made any strong arguments for lynching Oats is FT. Everyone else is simply parroting and spouting nonsense about how they find him scummy when they probably don't even know what the case is to begin with. The simple fact of the matter is this: FT is dead if we lynch Oats or if Oats is scum. Either way. The only way FT and Toad are safe is if we DO NOT lynch Oats. Just think about it. Is it worth lynching a BG if we're going to lose a jailor and a triple voter for it? Is it worth lynching Oats, who COULD be scum, when we could lynch him at almost any point in the game? What the hell is the hurry with lynching Oats? If he's town and he's alive, that's a huge benefit for us because he's a BG, he protects our mayor + sheriff and it forces scum to use suboptimal shots to kill them. They cannot take down core players of town without first going through him and debears. If Oats is scum, in order to kill those players, they have to out Oats anyway! I find it pretty stupid to lynch Oats today, given that if he is scum he either gets outted in the near future, or if he doesn't get outted, his teammates will die and then he has a snowball's chance in hell of winning anyway, since FT is a triple voter. (1) I personally find it insulting what you just said. I am very aware of the reasons put forth by FT. I also think I genuinely added further contributions. Considering you did not input (even when asked) I am not surprised you throw me into the sheeping category. (2) I dont know why your repeating this BG stuff over and over again. I already said I agree Austin already said we agree. This is verging on becoming spam now. The point you raised the first time, was raised really clearly and made me realise something I didtn think of prior. Repeating it over and over again isnt changing that fact. | ||
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On January 24 2013 12:27 DearestSnot wrote: Chezinu and BKE lynches are taking resistance despite the fact that they have not done anything. In BKE's case it's actually quite scary because the resistance isn't direct, and people almost universally agree that he's pretty likely to flip scum. FYI I am behind a BKE lynch as per http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=393344¤tpage=97#1921 | ||
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On January 24 2013 12:28 Mocsta wrote: (1) I personally find it insulting what you just said. I am very aware of the reasons put forth by FT. I also think I genuinely added further contributions. Considering you did not input (even when asked) I am *NOW* . | ||
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If we lynch a BG and he is town.. scum still 2 KP and mayor/sheriff have no protection. (assuming 1 bg = town) The risk isnt worth it. | ||
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TL;DR I am confused. When he writes, I like what I read. It feels fluent and natural; I almost feel like its written in my style, so I can associate to that and hence, want to like him. The problem is.. his actions aren’t matching to the words. On January 20 2013 13:58 gonzaw wrote: My candidacy is based on these 2 things: 1)I'll try to establish my innocence as much as I can 2)I'll try my best to hunt scum today, and everyday from now on That's it. After reading his 6 pages of filter, I have noticed a distinct drop in scum hunting since FiveTouch came into the scene. Most of his ramblings are thread status quo related, and his case on continuous read Oats originates after Oats pressures him. There is also the major problem of “kind of saw this coming to be honest” in regards to the NKs. This is just plain odd and has not been addressed satisfactorily (see spoiler for more) So in short, He left a great first impression with me, but is now not living up to the promises he made. I have stronger reads in BKE/Oats though, so I will pen Gonzaw in as: I think he is leaning towards scum.
Analysis + Show Spoiler + This is my general thoughts as I went through the 6 pages of filter. Its barely edited (sorry )(1) I like his mayor campaign. Points I agree with. I dont think its straight forward to input this, otherwise, all the other candidates would have as well! (2) I like his Day1 questions. They are prods and I think are written to promote discussion. I am taking this as effective scum hunting due to nature of early Day1. (3) Interestingly enough.. gonzaw says he can understand Chez http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=393344¤tpage=15#297 I would very keen to hear Gonzaw insight on Chezinu currently! (4) Once FT comes into the thread, Gonzaw starts to spam his random thoughts. This is weird, especially because prplhz was around; and there were also others around (e.g. Toad etc) (5) He disagrees with the prplhz lynch, but its more just hey im not convinced. its not a hard defense This is reenforced when to me he says On January 21 2013 13:51 gonzaw wrote: Don't really know what to think of debears/grush; they are not making much sense and are kind of "trolling" with their votes and some of their reads, but that's too null to blindly lynch on D1. (6) Asks FT to choose Oats > prplhz I think this is sound.. earlier gonzaw said he agreed with aspects of the oatmaster points Fivetouch raised (7) When he concedes FT as mayor I like the post. Again feels like natural thoughts. I agree that prplhz felt like taking a stab in the dark. but really any day1 lynch is going to be like that. you have to go off a hunch with the limited time to get information. Again pushes for oats by suggestion. hmmm. Also calls out chez for swapping votes ?three? times... i want to know thoughts on this. Austin -> BKE -> Gonzaw) Night 1 Still supports Oats hmmm has blended in.. asks status quo questions.. doesnt seem to be scum hunting (p4) Then says if i die.. take out Oats/Annul.. but hasnt added anything further to them. On January 23 2013 10:36 gonzaw wrote: Kind of saw this coming to be honest (except the sandro kill). Unless some of them were a vig shot. Oats, you seem to be active, why haven't you addressed my response to your "case"? Five, could have scum killed you+Toad last night if both debears+Oats were scum and "subbed in"? This is a really weird post, and I cant wrap my finger around it. im not satisfied with response.. its token. On January 23 2013 10:41 gonzaw wrote: I always see scum doing weird shit with night kills. Every time you expect some guys to be killed they killed others, etc. I didn't really think Jiexian or Djoref were scum, so I'm not surprised they were offed. The problem wasnt that they werent scum.. the problem was that no1 was a vet.. and JX had no impact on the game, and rather was under suspicion.. its fucked up.. why he saw it coming just isn’t satisfactorily answered. He also keeps saying haven’t read for a while all the time.. Also Doesn’t build case on oats until oats pressures him.. really odd, but has kept suggesting his lynch Overall, no major attempts to contribute with scum hunting, even though it was a campaign goal. So in summary he left a great first impression on me.. but as the game has gone, he as kept saying he needs to catch up and is starting to express disinterest in the game. He has contributed minimally to scum hunting, and whilst having 6 pages, most is based about current thread discussions instead of scum hunting. Considering he didnt seriously push hard for the mayor position, I dont think its a case of butthurt causing the decline in interest. I can definitely attribute this behaviour to scum play. But, before outright declaring him scum, I would like his take of what I noticed. | ||
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On January 24 2013 14:11 Oatsmaster wrote: Mocsta, can you succinctly tell me what makes me scum? Rather than just mentioning it every other post. Since you asked nicely, why not. Positives Post 1 You could have taken more advantage of my direct mis-read of your quote.. Prob more of a town tell than scum, but, either alignment could have taken the stance you did. I will consider this more towny though. Negatives (Post 1) (1) He has really turned DOWN the [intentional]aggression. and really turned UP the [emotional] aggressoin. which is odd.. a null tell overall though (but with (2) and (3) gives me concern) (2) Most of his responses are when pressured, and when he does try to pressure the questions are lacking in quality.. having just played a game with Oats as town, I can see a stark contrast (we also MAJORLY butted heads that game) (3) He keeps asking others for scum reads, but is not providing his own. (Post 2) (1) FT references your change in behaviour from classic town oats. I.E. Super aggressive as town and suddenly this game super defensive. This aligns with my read from Negative - Post 1. Please note originally I attributed this behaviour shift due to "vet syndrome" but you yourself have commented you feel confident, so the point I raised to defend you is moot. (Post 3) If I was going to sum up your town play.. its very similar to what Vivax is doing this game.. Just throwing accusations around freely. You are scumhunting in your own way, but it is also wild and reckless. This post here is critical and it points out your lie in regards to being "shy" - you did retract this later and added that you were indeed confident.. if you are indeed confident then your approach this game directly conflicts with your town game of being "balls to the wall" In a nutshell,
I think this all equates to a game style that was premeditated due to role alignment => SCUM. | ||
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On January 24 2013 14:45 BroodKingEXE wrote: Quite honestly I can understand why you think I am scum. The problem I am finding, in my readthrough of filters, I am feeling really disconnected with the thread, due to initial missing the onset of the game. If you have anything you want my opinion or read on you can ask me. I just aren't finding relevant topics for me to post on. Please ask away. OK. Vivax filter. His last 2 to 3 pages, he created a shit-storm of accusations. (i.e. last 12 to 16 hrs of play) Do you think he is disrupting the play intentionally? If so, is it scum motivated? | ||
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On January 24 2013 14:48 Toadesstern wrote: if we lynch a BG and he is scum I will offensively jail :3 hhhmmmmm.. that makes things very interesting. do you have a stronger read than Oats currently? Do you think it is worth the risk? | ||
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On January 24 2013 14:58 Oatsmaster wrote: So basically it is a meta read and not cause I am scummy in this game. Right. Meta read in my 5th game. WHO KNEW? Take it however you want. You have a very strong (try too hard to be dominant) personality. I think your a perfect candidate for a meta-read; as your strength of character is expressed very vividly. We were also arguing intimately for at least 10-12hrs last game, so I am more than aware of what I can expect from a town Oatsmaster. I was pushing your buttons regardless of whether you want to admit it. Either way, regardless of meta, you have not done much to contribute to the scum hunt. Fair enough you have had to respond to defenses, but you have still gone out of your way to throw jabs here and there. This behaviour just really feels forced to me. Considering I have picked up on the lack of scum hunting.. who is your current scum read? | ||
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On January 24 2013 14:58 Oatsmaster wrote: So basically it is a meta read and not cause I am scummy in this game. Right. Meta read in my 5th game. WHO KNEW? P.S. I was getting meta'd in my 2nd game by... newbies This is hardly a revolution. We playing with the big boys.. this is part of what they do. Deal with it. | ||
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What did you think of my read of gonzaw play? I felt really conflicted, perhaps you can shed some light. (its at top of page98) | ||
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Can I please have your take specifically on Gonzaws post regarding the NK deaths. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=393344&user=237527¤tpage=5 search "vig" | ||
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Is there any discussions that can be had over Chezinu random vote swapping towards the end? (Chez -> Austin -> BKE -> Gonzaw) | ||
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On January 24 2013 16:16 yamato77 wrote: This post of Oats, along with other things like his willingness to give out reads, his overall activity level, and his fairly unnecessary (if mafia) case on Gonzaw, makes me believe that he is town. The fact that he's continued to pursue his read on Gonzaw today is quite telling to me. When he posted the case at night, I believed he would have done so with the idea that it was cheap town cred to do something like this at night when there was no lynch on the line. However, today I see that he's fairly invested in the idea that Gonzaw is mafia, something that I feel a lot of people are at the moment. Basically, if you think Gonzaw is mafia, Oats is far likelier to be town. I can agree that one of Gonzaw/Oatsmaster is mafia, not both. However, I still want to hear Gonzaw take on my read before committing to a stance. | ||
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On January 24 2013 16:21 BroodKingEXE wrote: ... So in short BKE, right now after pointing you in the direction of Vivax, and one post of Gonzaw; Based on the replys you gave, I assume the reads would be: Vivax - Probably scum? Gonzaw - null? | ||
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(2) With Chezinu is this guy your actual #1 read currently? Im asking cos everyone keeps saying he is hard to read, and I definitely feel the same after reading his filter, its very self-centric. Im just curious why you would prefer Chezinu over BKE? | ||
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theory crafting. Vigilante You may, only once during the game, kill a player of your choice during the night. Considering its 1-shot, is it correct to assume there is no reason for the vig to not have claimed a kill last night? So are we running off the pretense for 3 KP, either Mafia Jack fired, or Town Jack fired or both and someone was protected? | ||
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Hes not doing himself any favours with that last post | ||
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On January 24 2013 19:02 Toadesstern wrote: I forgot that you don't get a notification if you save someone by jailing because he's not targetable instead of being saved. I just assumed he didn't get shot because of that. Ooo. Didnt know that. So to confirm if medic saves someone from kp. I get a notificatiin saying i was saved. Gotcha | ||
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(like i did with BKE when he was online) | ||
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want to ask me anything whilst I am here? | ||
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I am Mocsta from the land of green Anything else you care to ask? | ||
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Lets play a game. I answered your question, so perhaps you can Reciprocate Are you willing to vote Oatsmaster for Day2 lynch? | ||
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On January 24 2013 21:41 Chezinu wrote: Mocsta, your totally #1 btw. Oh and I think you could potentially be reading my list wrong. maybe. Your my #1 too <3 u Chezinu the brown... Prob is theres #4 mafia, and me no likey Anyways.. in your list im clumped with Oatsmaster; so i assumed that meant you were suspicious of me. Considering you just said you would consider voting Oatsmaster, that indeed confirms you have suspicions of him (and im lumped in that group ) | ||
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On January 24 2013 20:48 Oatsmaster wrote: I said I played badly at the start, but got better as the game went on. Seriously, Get comfirmation bias out of your head. Oatsmaster,
##Vote: Oatsmaster Your posts are full of out-of-place aggression You pick on zero town cred players, and then once they are influential you conveniently do a full 180’ + Show Spoiler + Im going to post 3 consecutive posts from your filter (this is nothing new) (1) On January 21 2013 17:50 Oatsmaster wrote: Your some random smurf, regardless, what sandro said was that he would be gone for 15 hours. So you need to fucking read the thread. In response to Gonzaw querying you over this post Second Bolded, I was reacting to 5touch who was pissing me off. So you feel comfortable lunging into a low post smurf with zero town cred. When Gonzaw calls you out for the over the top aggression; you brush it off saying he pissed me off.. This is the oatsmaster Im used to. (2) On January 21 2013 17:51 Oatsmaster wrote: Who is currently running for mayor other than the retards who want to lynch me? This is a direct reference again to FiveTouch Again more flames of a zero town cred smurf. (3) On January 21 2013 22:21 Oatsmaster wrote: I dont think that Gonzaw is scum necessarily but I wouldnt want him as my mayor Day 1 Ok on to FiveTouch, He is leaking town through his pores, but I dont want to vote for him because day 1 lynch will be a mislynch. Me. However, if he changes his target, I would think about voting for him based on his reads. Firstly, you back down on Gonzaw who has been questioning you about your behavior. Then you do a full 180’ on FT based on what? There is no progression of read, it’s a direct jump from quote (2) Retard to quote (3) leaking town. Now for the analysis.. lets say Oats is not dumb and recognize FT held influence. Because FT wanted to lynch Oats, you say. OK oats is going to get the kneepads out and massage FT gently… BUT.. is this really the style of an ultra-aggressive (town) player? The answer is no… I had a similar situation with Oats last game. Lets look at his response when Im becoming influential. (My comments are bolded) – from Newbie XXXV (finished 23/01/13) On January 13 2013 20:44 Oatsmaster wrote: The situations are not identical, but I was voting Oats just like FT was. And Oats recognize the town was siding with me, so he caves in.. but look at the difference in how it is achieve. With FT he fully capitulates. With me, he is saying, you won this battle, but Im still watching you. Let it be known, I will not be intimidated by you. I stand for an open environment, not the dictatorship that you seek. Looks like you are trying to create a dictatorship to me. Also, how did you brainwash all these people? HOW? feel Oatsmaster will just try to derail it So you dont have confirmation bias, right. Also, with your current level of activity, and the way you defended yourself. ##Unvote HOWEVER I really dont like the way you are going around buddying everybody and keep referring to yourself as an excellent town player. yet at least 1 individual is yet to post with 24hrs expired. Are you not concerned with this behaviour? What do you want me/everyone to do? Knock on his door and wake him up? I agree that the lurkers are lurking away, what do you propose the town, led by you, do? Which is EXACTLY what a town ultra-aggressive person is going to do. Oats is not doing this in this game. You list Stutters as a top scum read, but barely follow up + Show Spoiler + Believe is every post in your filter regarding Stutters… On January 21 2013 17:42 Oatsmaster wrote: I wouldn't mind lynching him, as I wouldn't mind lynching Stutters. Stutters hasn't shown up yet, specially with his "catching up" post; which doesn't make things any easier. On January 22 2013 12:12 Oatsmaster wrote: I dismissed the case cause I didnt think that the changes in meta were particularly scummy. Although his random WIFOM vote for you without any explaination probably put the nail in his coffin. I didnt want a mayor lynching a lurker like BroodkingEXE and Clarity. See the difference between them and Stutters? reason. On January 22 2013 15:44 Oatsmaster wrote: Regarding Gonzaw Testing the waters on whether he should push a stutters or clarity lynch. On January 22 2013 23:41 Oatsmaster wrote: Stutters was scum because: My d1 reads are almost always wrong, so I'm not nearly as active. This post seems scummy to me because its not a reason not to be active. Day 1 reactions are good because its a time where you can see who is proactive and who isnt. On January 24 2013 15:09 Oatsmaster wrote: Gonzaw, is that not clear? Stutters also, but what little activity he is doing is kinda changing my mind, if its not consistant soon though, he is scum I don’t see the difference between BKE/Clarity and Stutters. And you never provide detail on what the specifics are either. If Stutters is your 2nd scum read: Where is your pressure to Stutters? There is no aggression here? You say his little activity is changing your mind, how? Its never explained. This is I don’t give a fuck attitude, never seen before in town oats. And, if hes your scum read.. why..do you accuse Gonzaw for being scum because he “tested the waters” with Stutters? Shouldn’t you be supporting Gonzaw with this? Overall, You have not addressed a single question to Stutters. I call bullshit on you. You list Gonzaw as a scum read, but its all OMGUS, your always replying to his criticisms… + Show Spoiler + You were the first to call out Gonzaw, but its hardly a scum read. You are just stating concern. On January 20 2013 19:39 Oatsmaster wrote: So far, Gonzaw has a lot of activity but ima wait and see if its town motivated or scum motivated. After this, when you start calling Gonzaw scum, it is ALWAYS after gonzaw says something to you. You are the one being OMGUS. E.G. Gonzaw then calls out your aggression on FiveTouch: On January 21 2013 17:50 Oatsmaster wrote: ...how is that aggressive? Looks like you are nitpicking on my opening post. Gonzaw calls out Oats first & on top of that speaks about oats 2nd scum read Stutters… yet Oats later says Gonzaw is OMGUS him? Wat the. Oats then says On January 21 2013 22:21 Oatsmaster wrote: I dont think that Gonzaw is scum necessarily but I wouldnt want him as my mayor Day 1 Then after Gonzaw pressures him more, we get this: On January 21 2013 23:56 Oatsmaster wrote: You needed some time to think about that answer eh? Get out. I dont have to answer to you what im doing at all times. I think that using meta clinches a case but using meta solely isnt a good reason cause players change the way they play. Stop nitpicking. Gonzaw is a light shade of red, I think that scum need to have someone to control the mayoral elections or at least participate and I dont think that 5 touch is scum so by virtue of association and optimal play, I think gonzaw would flip red. Complete OMGUS from here it just sinks worse and worse. Oats follows up with another OMGUS case later on. Yet he doesn’t recognize it? On January 24 2013 10:18 Oatsmaster wrote: Gonzaw. Also, please tell me how my case on you is OMGUS and not you being scum? Your followup points/cases on Gonzaw are all single posts interspersed between status quo conversation. You never attack Gonzaw in a barrage of aggressive posts which is typical Oatsmaster style; or even typical style of anyone actively scumhunting their target. + Show Spoiler + e.G. You call out your favourite scum read On January 24 2013 10:18 Oatsmaster wrote: Gonzaw. Also, please tell me how my case on you is OMGUS and not you being scum? And then 1 minute later.. you post this. On January 24 2013 10:19 Oatsmaster wrote: Debears, willing to share your 'nail in the coffin' now? Complete change in thought process. You have already moved on.. that’s not the motives in a person head when seriously scum hunting, they focused. Your dabbling in and out of conversation like you don’t care. Another example On January 23 2013 10:47 Oatsmaster wrote: Gonzaw, Overall, it seems like Gonzaw thinks that im bad, OMGUS, and just discredits my case that way. A few minutes later On January 23 2013 10:55 Oatsmaster wrote: ##Vote: Double Lynch And a few more minutes later On January 23 2013 11:05 Oatsmaster wrote: Isnt this all the possible scenarios? How does this helps us to find scum? He is completely removed from this scum read.. wat the? You lie about your behavior, categorizing yourself as shy due to playing with vets. Then again do a full 180’ saying you were trying to be cute and were joking + Show Spoiler + On January 23 2013 23:35 Oatsmaster wrote: I played really really bad in the town game that you quoted 5touch, as you said i wouldve gotten lynched until my claim. Trying to play better, IE not be so fucking stupid about people. Follows up with why he is playing bad when FT puts pressure On January 23 2013 23:51 Oatsmaster wrote: More players/better players. I can honestly say I thought that in the Newbie game I would be one of the town leaders Here, I shy. Shy.. that’s the equivalent of saying im a newbie (Classic scum tactic)… I then post this On January 14 2013 21:19 Oatsmaster wrote: Which game? My first newbie game was fucking horrible and I was town, My chrono game was different because there were 20-30 people, I was one of the few newbies, It was my first actual game. So yeah, since then, I have become more confident to pressure people. This completely catches him out on the lie of being shy… he then retorts with On January 24 2013 00:40 Oatsmaster wrote: Mocsta, I have become more confident to pressure people. Uhuh, so other than the start of the game, which was poor play which I already addressed, Wouldnt you say im more confident than in my Chrono game? What the hell, a complete 180 and blatant lie. With more FT pressure he adds On January 24 2013 00:50 Oatsmaster wrote: and then follows up the next day with:Cant a guy try to make a joke and be cute about it? Apparently not. Anyway, gonna sleep now. On January 24 2013 10:09 Oatsmaster wrote: The reason why I put the 'shy' bullshit, was that I completely forgot why I defended JX. Conclusion Blatant lies and making excuses for poor play. Classic scum tactics. Then flips in behavior is a guy going into damage control.. This coupled with his contributions to thread status quo (straight after pressuring a scum read) indicate he just doesn’t care.. odd, because of the ultra aggression he shows (to the people with low influence).. Definitely scum. | ||
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On January 24 2013 23:11 Oatsmaster wrote: Mocsta, tell me why 180s are scummy? Man, out of all that, your defense is 3 points. (2). You dont like how Gonzaw is going about addressing Stutters? At least he did... Again if Stutters is your top scum read, why have you not addressed anything his way? Seriously.. go to your filter and ctrl+f "stutters" the 5 or so posts I added is *IT* in a 7 page filter.. (3) Thanks for the grammar correction. Your obviously focused on making a townie defense.... You respond to my questions, with questions.. The fact is, when you have a top scum read and are scum hunting, the mind tends to focus to one objective. The ability to make a case/raise points to your TOP SCUM READ, and then follow up with questions to randoms within 1minute, demonstrates your mind was never 100% focused on Gonzaw. Considering he is your top scum read.. as town. .this is very very unlikely to occur. (1) Why are the 180s scummy? For me its a variety of reasons, but the main one for me is because your adjusting what you believe in, according to whats hot in the thread at the time. Its a way to blend in. I also know from my game with you, your one track focus as I demonstrated with our game and you dropping your vote on me, but throwing in you felt everyone was brainwashed... its clear its hard for you to let go.. but this game, you change your opinion with reckless and wild abandon... thats politician play, trying to blend in with the hottest shit at the time. Thats scummy Oats. Straight up, and you have done it on multiple occasions. As I proved earlier. The vote remains. | ||
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With Chezinu.. any reasons you think he has been speaking coherently the past couple posts (i.e. not in Chez the brown riddles?) | ||
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On January 24 2013 23:36 Oatsmaster wrote: Ok 5touch, these 2 statments are mutually exclusive [b] Cause you wanted to see how you could manipulate town? Scum Or cause you are lazy and wanted other town to have the responsibility? Town. Also, I think being lazy is bad play cause you are lazy Are you now intentionally quoting like a retard? Preview the BBCode dude.. your quotes are so confusing. What FT said is on the money.. other town in that phrasing infers you included him as town... thsu contradicting you. your just digging the hole deeper. [b]So do you want us to follow up on Grush or BKE Day 3? | ||
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so you build up quotes for FT to then conclude with "I'd like Mocsta lynch" Vivax. grow a pair of balls and build a case against me if you want to campaign for my lynch. | ||
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On January 24 2013 20:48 Oatsmaster wrote: I said I played badly at the start, but got better as the game went on. Seriously, Get comfirmation bias out of your head. Oatsmaster,
##Vote: Oatsmaster Your posts are full of out-of-place aggression You pick on zero town cred players, and then once they are influential you conveniently do a full 180’ + Show Spoiler + Im going to post 3 consecutive posts from your filter (this is nothing new) (1) On January 21 2013 17:50 Oatsmaster wrote: Your some random smurf, regardless, what sandro said was that he would be gone for 15 hours. So you need to fucking read the thread. In response to Gonzaw querying you over this post Second Bolded, I was reacting to 5touch who was pissing me off. So you feel comfortable lunging into a low post smurf with zero town cred. When Gonzaw calls you out for the over the top aggression; you brush it off saying he pissed me off.. This is the oatsmaster Im used to. (2) On January 21 2013 17:51 Oatsmaster wrote: Who is currently running for mayor other than the retards who want to lynch me? This is a direct reference again to FiveTouch Again more flames of a zero town cred smurf. (3) On January 21 2013 22:21 Oatsmaster wrote: I dont think that Gonzaw is scum necessarily but I wouldnt want him as my mayor Day 1 Ok on to FiveTouch, He is leaking town through his pores, but I dont want to vote for him because day 1 lynch will be a mislynch. Me. However, if he changes his target, I would think about voting for him based on his reads. Firstly, you back down on Gonzaw who has been questioning you about your behavior. Then you do a full 180’ on FT based on what? There is no progression of read, it’s a direct jump from quote (2) Retard to quote (3) leaking town. Now for the analysis.. lets say Oats is not dumb and recognize FT held influence. Because FT wanted to lynch Oats, you say. OK oats is going to get the kneepads out and massage FT gently… BUT.. is this really the style of an ultra-aggressive (town) player? The answer is no… I had a similar situation with Oats last game. Lets look at his response when Im becoming influential. (My comments are bolded) – from Newbie XXXV (finished 23/01/13) On January 13 2013 20:44 Oatsmaster wrote: The situations are not identical, but I was voting Oats just like FT was. And Oats recognize the town was siding with me, so he caves in.. but look at the difference in how it is achieve. With FT he fully capitulates. With me, he is saying, you won this battle, but Im still watching you. Let it be known, I will not be intimidated by you. I stand for an open environment, not the dictatorship that you seek. Looks like you are trying to create a dictatorship to me. Also, how did you brainwash all these people? HOW? feel Oatsmaster will just try to derail it So you dont have confirmation bias, right. Also, with your current level of activity, and the way you defended yourself. ##Unvote HOWEVER I really dont like the way you are going around buddying everybody and keep referring to yourself as an excellent town player. yet at least 1 individual is yet to post with 24hrs expired. Are you not concerned with this behaviour? What do you want me/everyone to do? Knock on his door and wake him up? I agree that the lurkers are lurking away, what do you propose the town, led by you, do? Which is EXACTLY what a town ultra-aggressive person is going to do. Oats is not doing this in this game. You list Stutters as a top scum read, but barely follow up + Show Spoiler + Believe is every post in your filter regarding Stutters… On January 21 2013 17:42 Oatsmaster wrote: I wouldn't mind lynching him, as I wouldn't mind lynching Stutters. Stutters hasn't shown up yet, specially with his "catching up" post; which doesn't make things any easier. On January 22 2013 12:12 Oatsmaster wrote: I dismissed the case cause I didnt think that the changes in meta were particularly scummy. Although his random WIFOM vote for you without any explaination probably put the nail in his coffin. I didnt want a mayor lynching a lurker like BroodkingEXE and Clarity. See the difference between them and Stutters? reason. On January 22 2013 15:44 Oatsmaster wrote: Regarding Gonzaw Testing the waters on whether he should push a stutters or clarity lynch. On January 22 2013 23:41 Oatsmaster wrote: Stutters was scum because: My d1 reads are almost always wrong, so I'm not nearly as active. This post seems scummy to me because its not a reason not to be active. Day 1 reactions are good because its a time where you can see who is proactive and who isnt. On January 24 2013 15:09 Oatsmaster wrote: Gonzaw, is that not clear? Stutters also, but what little activity he is doing is kinda changing my mind, if its not consistant soon though, he is scum I don’t see the difference between BKE/Clarity and Stutters. And you never provide detail on what the specifics are either. If Stutters is your 2nd scum read: Where is your pressure to Stutters? There is no aggression here? You say his little activity is changing your mind, how? Its never explained. This is I don’t give a fuck attitude, never seen before in town oats. And, if hes your scum read.. why..do you accuse Gonzaw for being scum because he “tested the waters” with Stutters? Shouldn’t you be supporting Gonzaw with this? Overall, You have not addressed a single question to Stutters. I call bullshit on you. You list Gonzaw as a scum read, but its all OMGUS, your always replying to his criticisms… + Show Spoiler + You were the first to call out Gonzaw, but its hardly a scum read. You are just stating concern. On January 20 2013 19:39 Oatsmaster wrote: So far, Gonzaw has a lot of activity but ima wait and see if its town motivated or scum motivated. After this, when you start calling Gonzaw scum, it is ALWAYS after gonzaw says something to you. You are the one being OMGUS. E.G. Gonzaw then calls out your aggression on FiveTouch: On January 21 2013 17:50 Oatsmaster wrote: ...how is that aggressive? Looks like you are nitpicking on my opening post. Gonzaw calls out Oats first & on top of that speaks about oats 2nd scum read Stutters… yet Oats later says Gonzaw is OMGUS him? Wat the. Oats then says On January 21 2013 22:21 Oatsmaster wrote: I dont think that Gonzaw is scum necessarily but I wouldnt want him as my mayor Day 1 Then after Gonzaw pressures him more, we get this: On January 21 2013 23:56 Oatsmaster wrote: You needed some time to think about that answer eh? Get out. I dont have to answer to you what im doing at all times. I think that using meta clinches a case but using meta solely isnt a good reason cause players change the way they play. Stop nitpicking. Gonzaw is a light shade of red, I think that scum need to have someone to control the mayoral elections or at least participate and I dont think that 5 touch is scum so by virtue of association and optimal play, I think gonzaw would flip red. Complete OMGUS from here it just sinks worse and worse. Oats follows up with another OMGUS case later on. Yet he doesn’t recognize it? On January 24 2013 10:18 Oatsmaster wrote: Gonzaw. Also, please tell me how my case on you is OMGUS and not you being scum? Your followup points/cases on Gonzaw are all single posts interspersed between status quo conversation. You never attack Gonzaw in a barrage of aggressive posts which is typical Oatsmaster style; or even typical style of anyone actively scumhunting their target. + Show Spoiler + e.G. You call out your favourite scum read On January 24 2013 10:18 Oatsmaster wrote: Gonzaw. Also, please tell me how my case on you is OMGUS and not you being scum? And then 1 minute later.. you post this. On January 24 2013 10:19 Oatsmaster wrote: Debears, willing to share your 'nail in the coffin' now? Complete change in thought process. You have already moved on.. that’s not the motives in a person head when seriously scum hunting, they focused. Your dabbling in and out of conversation like you don’t care. Another example On January 23 2013 10:47 Oatsmaster wrote: Gonzaw, Overall, it seems like Gonzaw thinks that im bad, OMGUS, and just discredits my case that way. A few minutes later On January 23 2013 10:55 Oatsmaster wrote: ##Vote: Double Lynch And a few more minutes later On January 23 2013 11:05 Oatsmaster wrote: Isnt this all the possible scenarios? How does this helps us to find scum? He is completely removed from this scum read.. wat the? You lie about your behavior, categorizing yourself as shy due to playing with vets. Then again do a full 180’ saying you were trying to be cute and were joking + Show Spoiler + On January 23 2013 23:35 Oatsmaster wrote: I played really really bad in the town game that you quoted 5touch, as you said i wouldve gotten lynched until my claim. Trying to play better, IE not be so fucking stupid about people. Follows up with why he is playing bad when FT puts pressure On January 23 2013 23:51 Oatsmaster wrote: More players/better players. I can honestly say I thought that in the Newbie game I would be one of the town leaders Here, I shy. Shy.. that’s the equivalent of saying im a newbie (Classic scum tactic)… I then post this On January 14 2013 21:19 Oatsmaster wrote: Which game? My first newbie game was fucking horrible and I was town, My chrono game was different because there were 20-30 people, I was one of the few newbies, It was my first actual game. So yeah, since then, I have become more confident to pressure people. This completely catches him out on the lie of being shy… he then retorts with On January 24 2013 00:40 Oatsmaster wrote: Mocsta, I have become more confident to pressure people. Uhuh, so other than the start of the game, which was poor play which I already addressed, Wouldnt you say im more confident than in my Chrono game? What the hell, a complete 180 and blatant lie. With more FT pressure he adds On January 24 2013 00:50 Oatsmaster wrote: and then follows up the next day with:Cant a guy try to make a joke and be cute about it? Apparently not. Anyway, gonna sleep now. On January 24 2013 10:09 Oatsmaster wrote: The reason why I put the 'shy' bullshit, was that I completely forgot why I defended JX. Conclusion Blatant lies and making excuses for poor play. Classic scum tactics. Then flips in behavior is a guy going into damage control.. This coupled with his contributions to thread status quo (straight after pressuring a scum read) indicate he just doesn’t care.. odd, because of the ultra aggression he shows (to the people with low influence).. Definitely scum. | ||
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I thought you were going to reason, its retarded because he said Oats is likely to be town | ||
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Vivax this is for you regarding your concerns. + Show Spoiler [Present for Vivax] + On January 25 2013 00:13 Mocsta wrote: Writing this post to not be forgotten (by Vivax): Oatsmaster,
##Vote: Oatsmaster Your posts are full of out-of-place aggression You pick on zero town cred players, and then once they are influential you conveniently do a full 180’ + Show Spoiler + Im going to post 3 consecutive posts from your filter (this is nothing new) (1) On January 21 2013 17:50 Oatsmaster wrote: Your some random smurf, regardless, what sandro said was that he would be gone for 15 hours. So you need to fucking read the thread. In response to Gonzaw querying you over this post Second Bolded, I was reacting to 5touch who was pissing me off. So you feel comfortable lunging into a low post smurf with zero town cred. When Gonzaw calls you out for the over the top aggression; you brush it off saying he pissed me off.. This is the oatsmaster Im used to. (2) On January 21 2013 17:51 Oatsmaster wrote: Who is currently running for mayor other than the retards who want to lynch me? This is a direct reference again to FiveTouch Again more flames of a zero town cred smurf. (3) On January 21 2013 22:21 Oatsmaster wrote: I dont think that Gonzaw is scum necessarily but I wouldnt want him as my mayor Day 1 Ok on to FiveTouch, He is leaking town through his pores, but I dont want to vote for him because day 1 lynch will be a mislynch. Me. However, if he changes his target, I would think about voting for him based on his reads. Firstly, you back down on Gonzaw who has been questioning you about your behavior. Then you do a full 180’ on FT based on what? There is no progression of read, it’s a direct jump from quote (2) Retard to quote (3) leaking town. Now for the analysis.. lets say Oats is not dumb and recognize FT held influence. Because FT wanted to lynch Oats, you say. OK oats is going to get the kneepads out and massage FT gently… BUT.. is this really the style of an ultra-aggressive (town) player? The answer is no… I had a similar situation with Oats last game. Lets look at his response when Im becoming influential. (My comments are bolded) – from Newbie XXXV (finished 23/01/13) On January 13 2013 20:44 Oatsmaster wrote: The situations are not identical, but I was voting Oats just like FT was. And Oats recognize the town was siding with me, so he caves in.. but look at the difference in how it is achieve. With FT he fully capitulates. With me, he is saying, you won this battle, but Im still watching you. Let it be known, I will not be intimidated by you. I stand for an open environment, not the dictatorship that you seek. Looks like you are trying to create a dictatorship to me. Also, how did you brainwash all these people? HOW? feel Oatsmaster will just try to derail it So you dont have confirmation bias, right. Also, with your current level of activity, and the way you defended yourself. ##Unvote HOWEVER I really dont like the way you are going around buddying everybody and keep referring to yourself as an excellent town player. yet at least 1 individual is yet to post with 24hrs expired. Are you not concerned with this behaviour? What do you want me/everyone to do? Knock on his door and wake him up? I agree that the lurkers are lurking away, what do you propose the town, led by you, do? Which is EXACTLY what a town ultra-aggressive person is going to do. Oats is not doing this in this game. You list Stutters as a top scum read, but barely follow up + Show Spoiler + Believe is every post in your filter regarding Stutters… On January 21 2013 17:42 Oatsmaster wrote: I wouldn't mind lynching him, as I wouldn't mind lynching Stutters. Stutters hasn't shown up yet, specially with his "catching up" post; which doesn't make things any easier. On January 22 2013 12:12 Oatsmaster wrote: I dismissed the case cause I didnt think that the changes in meta were particularly scummy. Although his random WIFOM vote for you without any explaination probably put the nail in his coffin. I didnt want a mayor lynching a lurker like BroodkingEXE and Clarity. See the difference between them and Stutters? reason. On January 22 2013 15:44 Oatsmaster wrote: Regarding Gonzaw Testing the waters on whether he should push a stutters or clarity lynch. On January 22 2013 23:41 Oatsmaster wrote: Stutters was scum because: My d1 reads are almost always wrong, so I'm not nearly as active. This post seems scummy to me because its not a reason not to be active. Day 1 reactions are good because its a time where you can see who is proactive and who isnt. On January 24 2013 15:09 Oatsmaster wrote: Gonzaw, is that not clear? Stutters also, but what little activity he is doing is kinda changing my mind, if its not consistant soon though, he is scum I don’t see the difference between BKE/Clarity and Stutters. And you never provide detail on what the specifics are either. If Stutters is your 2nd scum read: Where is your pressure to Stutters? There is no aggression here? You say his little activity is changing your mind, how? Its never explained. This is I don’t give a fuck attitude, never seen before in town oats. And, if hes your scum read.. why..do you accuse Gonzaw for being scum because he “tested the waters” with Stutters? Shouldn’t you be supporting Gonzaw with this? Overall, You have not addressed a single question to Stutters. I call bullshit on you. You list Gonzaw as a scum read, but its all OMGUS, your always replying to his criticisms… + Show Spoiler + You were the first to call out Gonzaw, but its hardly a scum read. You are just stating concern. On January 20 2013 19:39 Oatsmaster wrote: So far, Gonzaw has a lot of activity but ima wait and see if its town motivated or scum motivated. After this, when you start calling Gonzaw scum, it is ALWAYS after gonzaw says something to you. You are the one being OMGUS. E.G. Gonzaw then calls out your aggression on FiveTouch: On January 21 2013 17:50 Oatsmaster wrote: ...how is that aggressive? Looks like you are nitpicking on my opening post. Gonzaw calls out Oats first & on top of that speaks about oats 2nd scum read Stutters… yet Oats later says Gonzaw is OMGUS him? Wat the. Oats then says On January 21 2013 22:21 Oatsmaster wrote: I dont think that Gonzaw is scum necessarily but I wouldnt want him as my mayor Day 1 Then after Gonzaw pressures him more, we get this: On January 21 2013 23:56 Oatsmaster wrote: You needed some time to think about that answer eh? Get out. I dont have to answer to you what im doing at all times. I think that using meta clinches a case but using meta solely isnt a good reason cause players change the way they play. Stop nitpicking. Gonzaw is a light shade of red, I think that scum need to have someone to control the mayoral elections or at least participate and I dont think that 5 touch is scum so by virtue of association and optimal play, I think gonzaw would flip red. Complete OMGUS from here it just sinks worse and worse. Oats follows up with another OMGUS case later on. Yet he doesn’t recognize it? On January 24 2013 10:18 Oatsmaster wrote: Gonzaw. Also, please tell me how my case on you is OMGUS and not you being scum? Your followup points/cases on Gonzaw are all single posts interspersed between status quo conversation. You never attack Gonzaw in a barrage of aggressive posts which is typical Oatsmaster style; or even typical style of anyone actively scumhunting their target. + Show Spoiler + e.G. You call out your favourite scum read On January 24 2013 10:18 Oatsmaster wrote: Gonzaw. Also, please tell me how my case on you is OMGUS and not you being scum? And then 1 minute later.. you post this. On January 24 2013 10:19 Oatsmaster wrote: Debears, willing to share your 'nail in the coffin' now? Complete change in thought process. You have already moved on.. that’s not the motives in a person head when seriously scum hunting, they focused. Your dabbling in and out of conversation like you don’t care. Another example On January 23 2013 10:47 Oatsmaster wrote: Gonzaw, Overall, it seems like Gonzaw thinks that im bad, OMGUS, and just discredits my case that way. A few minutes later On January 23 2013 10:55 Oatsmaster wrote: ##Vote: Double Lynch And a few more minutes later On January 23 2013 11:05 Oatsmaster wrote: Isnt this all the possible scenarios? How does this helps us to find scum? He is completely removed from this scum read.. wat the? You lie about your behavior, categorizing yourself as shy due to playing with vets. Then again do a full 180’ saying you were trying to be cute and were joking + Show Spoiler + On January 23 2013 23:35 Oatsmaster wrote: I played really really bad in the town game that you quoted 5touch, as you said i wouldve gotten lynched until my claim. Trying to play better, IE not be so fucking stupid about people. Follows up with why he is playing bad when FT puts pressure On January 23 2013 23:51 Oatsmaster wrote: More players/better players. I can honestly say I thought that in the Newbie game I would be one of the town leaders Here, I shy. Shy.. that’s the equivalent of saying im a newbie (Classic scum tactic)… I then post this On January 14 2013 21:19 Oatsmaster wrote: Which game? My first newbie game was fucking horrible and I was town, My chrono game was different because there were 20-30 people, I was one of the few newbies, It was my first actual game. So yeah, since then, I have become more confident to pressure people. This completely catches him out on the lie of being shy… he then retorts with On January 24 2013 00:40 Oatsmaster wrote: Mocsta, I have become more confident to pressure people. Uhuh, so other than the start of the game, which was poor play which I already addressed, Wouldnt you say im more confident than in my Chrono game? What the hell, a complete 180 and blatant lie. With more FT pressure he adds On January 24 2013 00:50 Oatsmaster wrote: and then follows up the next day with:Cant a guy try to make a joke and be cute about it? Apparently not. Anyway, gonna sleep now. On January 24 2013 10:09 Oatsmaster wrote: The reason why I put the 'shy' bullshit, was that I completely forgot why I defended JX. Conclusion Blatant lies and making excuses for poor play. Classic scum tactics. Then flips in behavior is a guy going into damage control.. This coupled with his contributions to thread status quo (straight after pressuring a scum read) indicate he just doesn’t care.. odd, because of the ultra aggression he shows (to the people with low influence).. Definitely scum. | ||
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(1) I disagree with Yamato defense of Oats; I will address this during Night phase due to point (2) (2) This Vivax stuff is doing my head in.. I have PM the host to confirm if DT give out role information or just alignment check. awaiting response (i doubt I will get one in time) I do not like the way Gonzaw handled the accusation; and has disappeared as well since. Doesnt matter if he is lazy, normally town put up a fight if mislynched (and he certainyl didnt rage quit)... and if it is heading to mislynch I thought they provide reads etc to aid town post-mislynch. None of this is happening. I am swapping my vote to Gonzaw due to Vivax claim... and will address yamato during night phase. | ||
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On January 25 2013 09:12 Vivax wrote: Toad said there is another DT, since that DT is unknown and his check is supposed to "go off", he can just jail me and there will still be one DT working right? For now I'm the only 100% confirmed town (after the gonzaw flip) . Your not confirmed town in my eyes. If you hit a second mafia then I will reconsider.. With your play so far im not ruling out a bus. | ||
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On January 25 2013 03:25 gonzaw wrote: If this was a "legit" frame/attempt to misslynch me it's weird as fuck because "jack mason" doesn't make any sense. So gonzaw throws in the frame stuff to potentially play some WIFOM (In my last game (played scum).. we had already discussed if any of us was cop checked, we would play the frame card.. just like Gonzaw did now.. its a WIFOM bomb and very hard to dispute with the information in the thread) Whats interesting however is his initial response to being under the pump On January 25 2013 03:24 gonzaw wrote: WTF? That's so obviously bullshit. I didn't mason anybody at all that doesn't make sense? Wow holy shit let me think about this On January 25 2013 03:40 gonzaw wrote: I am also a VT, which doesn't matter at all anyways so might as well claim. If I was VT. I would know straight away I been framed.. “hey guys I didn’t mason anybody.. im a vt” It takes him 15 min to post he is a VT.. this is suspect (if he was framed) Now, if we assume the frame is debuffed. This is interesting too On January 23 2013 10:36 gonzaw wrote: Kind of saw this coming to be honest (except the sandro kill). Unless some of them were a vig shot. Oats, you seem to be active, why haven't you addressed my response to your "case"? Everyone was shocked ppl like JX were killed.. and his response is “I saw this coming” and immediately has the clarity of mind to assume vig… This is fishy as, and to me, with the jack check, makes sense.. he was already prepared to throw out vig before the kills occurred. | ||
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On January 25 2013 09:19 Vivax wrote: LOL Mocsta. If you are town you should go play tetris. A bus, right. Considering the accusations you have been throwing around the past 36hours - by your standards- my consideration of bus is tame and safe. | ||
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I said I havent ruled it out, thus you are not confirmed town to me.... its pretty clear As for the slips; I dont base too much on those, its usually town who falsely slip due to not proof checking; whereas mafia are much more inclined to proof-read and re-read. So I was looking at behaviour;and he was the one who threw out being framed, and he was the one who threw out a vig hit..very curious, and considering he never followed it up or set any questions to follow up with it; I can only interpret it as non-town motivated information designed as WIFOM. | ||
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On January 25 2013 09:33 Vivax wrote: This way, when someone checks your filter and skims it ignoring the context, they will think you posted a good point about gonzaw (cause it is) and it makes you look less suspicious. Thank you for having the balls to admit that Vivax. Regardless of your behaviour this game, that means something to me (no sarcasm intended) And I disagree.. I been asleep the past 6 hours, caught up the thread, and made my own decision to swap to gonzaw.. i didnt sheep. the information i provided was original thought... thats a huge different. | ||
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On January 25 2013 09:37 Oatsmaster wrote: Mocsta, why do you feel that its important to express your non-sheepiness? Because im trying to contribute.. Sheeping is an easy way to mafia to blend in - i think. if i provide original thought at least that goes some way to show im trying to critically think. it also gives ppl an opportunity to debunk my logic... and get a better read on me..(for better or worse) | ||
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On January 25 2013 09:40 Vivax wrote: This is bullshit. This happens purely based on player skill. Town can slip, mafia can slip. Every slip has to be treated individually, that's why I'm not after annul any more for his earlier one, which was rather him looking nervous after a mistake. As for the slip, it has nothing to do with proof-checking. It has to do with gonzaw calling yamato a mafia mayor when he's arguing why he thinks yamato is town And yamatos hostile behaviour towards the claim when he announced that he thought gonzaw is scum in the post just before. And yamatos clearly different meta. But that's not the slip. It's all in my filter. OK, that was written coherently for me. I think Gonzaw stake is sealed... *IF* Gonzaw flips red. .i will look into Yamato as next target *IF* Gonzaw flips red it also goes a long way to proving Oats innocence (after Day 1 scum.. there was no reason for mafia to bus Day2 throughout Night1/Day2).. but we need to wait for flip. | ||
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Im saying its all hearsay until we see teh flip.. Then we can build the associations. I can wait 7min before making up my mind | ||
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Oats, I already explained your answer.. i express because i feel its important... | ||
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I dont have a problem you think I could be scum.. I want to know why 2 out of 4 *have* to be town? | ||
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On January 25 2013 10:17 Oatsmaster wrote: Because im trying to contribute. This doesnt tell me anything about why you mention that you are not sheeping. Maybe im stupid and dumb, but explain it again please :D I am against sheep voting; have been in all the games I played (including as scum).. votes need justification. I was asleep when most of the action happened regarding the DT check on Gonzaw. I could have sheeped due to the red check.. but frankly I still wanted you on the table. I needed to prove to myself that Gonzaw was a better lynch than you; and the stuff I found personally made Gonzaw a better target than you. TL;DR I am trying to be transparent in my play, and share my critical thoughts. | ||
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On January 25 2013 10:28 Oatsmaster wrote: Transparent = GUYS IM NOT SHEEPING, HERE IS THE PROOF!? Mocsta. Im not saying that you were sheeping/why you are against sheeping, Im just wondering why you feel the need to TELL the rest of the thread? Its like scum caring about appearances. Fair enough. i can see why you took it that way. I still think I have answered your questions and don't see a need to repeat my feedback again. And FYI, town do care about appearances, just in a different way to scum. Why.. because if you dont have town cred, its very difficult to get traction on your reads/cases. But these are elementary musings I am more than sure you are aware of. | ||
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On January 25 2013 11:11 Oatsmaster wrote: Yeah deadline was 1 hour ago, Why.. because if you dont have town cred, its very difficult to get traction on your reads/cases. I agree with this statment, but you dont have to mention that you are townie/express townie behaviour to get town 'cred' Fivetouch was pretty much unanimously read as town without having to mention all that stuff, and just being logical and playing well. Yeah fair point, but I dont have the experience of FiveTouch, nor the experience of the other vets. However, I think your missing the point. The only way for the vets to respect our opinion, is by sharing our thoughts and reasoning - and hopefully they agree with the critical thought; otherwise we are just a vote to them. I want to be more than just a free vote this game. | ||
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On January 25 2013 11:09 FiveTouch wrote: It's quite confusing, because it seems like it should have been quite possible to get gonzaw into second, yet they didn't. It suggests a lack of organisation, at least. Thats a good point. if prplhz swapped over to gonzaw.. gonzaw woulda been sheriff.. but do you think it would have been worth the heat of a last minute vote swap/association? I dont think so. Especially considering it was already clear that there was a minimum 50% chance you would be lynching prplhz. | ||
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With this double lynch. Is the intention to try and hit 2 top scum reads... or 1 top scum read and one on the fence (e.g. a guy like Chezinu sits on the fence for me) | ||
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On January 25 2013 11:44 DearestSnot wrote: Chezinu is up there for me. Gonzaw was pretty high too for me, especially after how he responded to the NKs. That's why I pushed them both over Oats today, but the town resisted both. Stop resisting good lynches :p Thanks for replying but not sure if you addressed the question? Day 3 I believe we have a double lynch (as 12 voted for it) I am asking, with a double lynch is the best play to put up the two top scum reads, or to put on the table the 50/50s (to me Chez is a 50/50) | ||
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I voted Gonzaw for mayor. I also called him (leaning) scum due to his actions Day 2 On January 23 2013 23:12 Mocsta wrote: Gonzaw: I was about to start reading his filter, but since you asked, my impressions as of now are: made a good impression on me at first, and was one of the only vets responding to me.. as FT came about, he has really faded. AND IIRC he hasnt followed up on his promises (reads etc). My other issue with Gonzaw is association with prplhz... b4 prplhz had heat on him, Gonzaw was one of the ppl he was soft "buddying" to. ATM null, need to confirm if the (lack of) follow ups are correct. & then On January 24 2013 13:41 Mocsta wrote: So because thread died, I decided to have a looksee @ Gonzaw. - Please share your thoughts. TL;DR I am confused. When he writes, I like what I read. It feels fluent and natural; I almost feel like its written in my style, so I can associate to that and hence, want to like him. The problem is.. his actions aren’t matching to the words. After reading his 6 pages of filter, I have noticed a distinct drop in scum hunting since FiveTouch came into the scene. Most of his ramblings are thread status quo related, and his case on continuous read Oats originates after Oats pressures him. There is also the major problem of “kind of saw this coming to be honest” in regards to the NKs. This is just plain odd and has not been addressed satisfactorily (see spoiler for more) So in short, He left a great first impression with me, but is now not living up to the promises he made. I have stronger reads in BKE/Oats though, so I will pen Gonzaw in as: I think he is leaning towards scum.
Analysis + Show Spoiler + This is my general thoughts as I went through the 6 pages of filter. Its barely edited (sorry )(1) I like his mayor campaign. Points I agree with. I dont think its straight forward to input this, otherwise, all the other candidates would have as well! (2) I like his Day1 questions. They are prods and I think are written to promote discussion. I am taking this as effective scum hunting due to nature of early Day1. (3) Interestingly enough.. gonzaw says he can understand Chez http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=393344¤tpage=15#297 I would very keen to hear Gonzaw insight on Chezinu currently! (4) Once FT comes into the thread, Gonzaw starts to spam his random thoughts. This is weird, especially because prplhz was around; and there were also others around (e.g. Toad etc) (5) He disagrees with the prplhz lynch, but its more just hey im not convinced. its not a hard defense This is reenforced when to me he says On January 21 2013 13:51 gonzaw wrote: Don't really know what to think of debears/grush; they are not making much sense and are kind of "trolling" with their votes and some of their reads, but that's too null to blindly lynch on D1. (6) Asks FT to choose Oats > prplhz I think this is sound.. earlier gonzaw said he agreed with aspects of the oatmaster points Fivetouch raised (7) When he concedes FT as mayor I like the post. Again feels like natural thoughts. I agree that prplhz felt like taking a stab in the dark. but really any day1 lynch is going to be like that. you have to go off a hunch with the limited time to get information. Again pushes for oats by suggestion. hmmm. Also calls out chez for swapping votes ?three? times... i want to know thoughts on this. Austin -> BKE -> Gonzaw) Night 1 Still supports Oats hmmm has blended in.. asks status quo questions.. doesnt seem to be scum hunting (p4) Then says if i die.. take out Oats/Annul.. but hasnt added anything further to them. On January 23 2013 10:36 gonzaw wrote: Kind of saw this coming to be honest (except the sandro kill). Unless some of them were a vig shot. Oats, you seem to be active, why haven't you addressed my response to your "case"? Five, could have scum killed you+Toad last night if both debears+Oats were scum and "subbed in"? This is a really weird post, and I cant wrap my finger around it. im not satisfied with response.. its token. On January 23 2013 10:41 gonzaw wrote: I always see scum doing weird shit with night kills. Every time you expect some guys to be killed they killed others, etc. I didn't really think Jiexian or Djoref were scum, so I'm not surprised they were offed. The problem wasnt that they werent scum.. the problem was that no1 was a vet.. and JX had no impact on the game, and rather was under suspicion.. its fucked up.. why he saw it coming just isn’t satisfactorily answered. He also keeps saying haven’t read for a while all the time.. Also Doesn’t build case on oats until oats pressures him.. really odd, but has kept suggesting his lynch Overall, no major attempts to contribute with scum hunting, even though it was a campaign goal. So in summary he left a great first impression on me.. but as the game has gone, he as kept saying he needs to catch up and is starting to express disinterest in the game. He has contributed minimally to scum hunting, and whilst having 6 pages, most is based about current thread discussions instead of scum hunting. Considering he didnt seriously push hard for the mayor position, I dont think its a case of butthurt causing the decline in interest. I can definitely attribute this behaviour to scum play. But, before outright declaring him scum, I would like his take of what I noticed. | ||
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On January 25 2013 12:20 debears wrote: I have been masoned. Apparently 24 hours ago Thanks BC! Lol by gonzaw? haha | ||
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On January 25 2013 12:35 debears wrote: 5touch I have to talk to you about said mason and figure out whether he contacted you already or not and why he masoned me I will think of encryption Impossible. FT said his mason spoke to Chezinu yesterday, and FT today. mason lasts day + night cycle (as Toad log with sandroba continued into night 1 IIRC) | ||
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He has been an active participant in town discussion, and even built a decent profile on why he thought Gonzaw was scum (which came about way before Vivax released the DT check info). @Yamato77 I would like to know some insight into why you were keen on Chezinu. I didnt think it was clear from your filter; and you have continued to defend him past Day 1. On January 21 2013 09:14 yamato77 wrote: You seem ready to discredit Chezinu on a moment's notice, when I see him as a valid candidate. On January 21 2013 09:34 yamato77 wrote: You have yet to address any of that. All you did was repeat yourself and do all of it some more. Another silly justification for voting Sandroba. Another attack on Chezinu. On January 21 2013 09:41 yamato77 wrote: The main thing is that I don't think Chez is trying to be unreadable this game. Most games he is trying to be that way because he doesn't want mafia to shoot him, but this game he seems to be playing straight up which makes him way easier to read and understand. So the attack is baseless and scummy to make. Chez is not a bad candidate for mayor. Whats interesting here you recognise the divergence in standard play.. is there not the possibility he doesnt have to worry about mafia KP, because he could be mafia? On January 21 2013 10:02 yamato77 wrote: I find your attack on Chezinu scummy. I didn't say anything about anyone else, nor do I necessarily agree with the "Chezinu Rule" concept. The way you dismissed everyone I consider to be a candidate worth voting for just to justify your useless vote on Sandroba was scummy. The fact that you took extra special attention to blowing off Chezinu makes me think you simply want to discredit his candidacy for reasons I have yet to hear from your mouth. Comprende, hombre? On January 21 2013 11:51 yamato77 wrote: The only people I'm interested in voting for are Austin, Gonzaw, Chezinu, and maybe FiveTouch (but he's a special case). I am not voting for Vivax, Toad, Djo, or any other random person running. On January 23 2013 00:47 yamato77 wrote: The question is, why do you think Chez might be scum? I don't. Please explain why? Chezinu barely contributed and you have a "not scum" read? On January 23 2013 00:56 yamato77 wrote: What do you think a question about Chezinu is going to reveal about Djo's alignment? Again soft-defending Chezinu; why? | ||
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A lot of that makes sense, especially focusing on Gonzaw; I am now very curious what he has to say. | ||
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On January 25 2013 15:07 DearestSnot wrote: I'll give you a 7/10 for effort but I'm willing to upgrade it to 9.5 if you can figure out my reasoning for why I disagree with you STARSENSES! | ||
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On January 25 2013 14:55 DearestSnot wrote: I'd like to hear from anyone who wants to speak with me. Talk to me. Mocsta, interested? Talk to me about who can be scum in your opinion and why. Perhaps even who can't. In WBG's advice corner for tonight, remember that at this stage of the game, townreads can be just as useful, if not even more useful, than scumreads. Perhaps it's best to keep those to ourselves for now, though. Happy scumhunting! My heads in work right now (some major shit happened) but to promote some discussion this is the best I can do right now.
Will prob take you up on this offer later tonight when I have a chance to clear my head. | ||
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On January 25 2013 15:17 Toadesstern wrote: Gonzaw just flipped mafia mason. Yeah there can be multiple masons but with 5 mafias in a 22 player game, with mafia having a jack as well I really doubt it. On top of that mafia can choose who ends up being what role for them. Here's a bunch of questions: Do you think they would give Grush that role? (okay... wifom) If he's a mafia he got in his QT telling people "DUDES I TOTALLY WANT TO BE A MASON" because he masoned early. Do you think he'd get in a game with that attitude as mafia and then just not use his mason powers as all? I mean look at the "conversation" lol. Damn it.. thats actually compelling. so...STARSENSES was true again FFS | ||
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On January 25 2013 15:21 Mocsta wrote: Damn it.. thats actually compelling. so...STARSENSES was true again FFS Im not fully sold on the guy though , but what you did present was compelling. The guy has made an effort not to get modkilled, but has done sweet fuck all. i havnt played with him before.. maybe this is his style IDK, but AFAIK he is optimal lurking. | ||
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curious what makes stutters confirmed townie for u did i miss something? Also, could u check on teh previous page, I had some questions regarding Chez directed to u. (mroe out of curiosity) | ||
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After this game I would love to know how u guys make notes etc i just read the thread, and get a gut feeling.. if i dont like someone, i read the filter and then makes notes as im reading the filter you guys seem to make notes as you read the thread; and seem to have detailed noted on all players is that correct? | ||
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On January 25 2013 15:42 Chezinu wrote: mommy dearest and the "nonconfirmed" towns on this list. 6. oatsmaster 7. debears 11. axlegreaser 17. Grush - innocent if mocsta is mafia 20. mocsta - innocent if grush is mafia 21. Broodkingexe have Fun! That list is hillarious... wheres mkfuba? hes confirmed town for Chezinu? I love the setup between me n Grush as well. Nicely played Chez | ||
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If you had a peg one mafia between Toad/DearestSnot, who is the mafia? Before you referenced someone caleld "masta" was this FT? | ||
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On January 25 2013 16:22 Chezinu wrote: If you asked me earlier, I would have said toad. But now, I would say mommy dearest cause he no likes me since day 1. Though I liked him day 1. But its already over if that's the case. You of all people should know who masta is....mocsta Chezinu (1) Do you think Grush still likes Yamato? (2) Do you really think Bugs is scum; even though he was a driving force behind prplhz lynch? Are you suggesting Bugs took a bus approach to get town cred for Day1 gambit? | ||
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On January 25 2013 16:32 Chezinu wrote: Is 5touch bugs? I thought he was palmar... Masta = me mommy Dearest = DearestSnot?? = Bugs? | ||
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On January 25 2013 16:33 Chezinu wrote: question 1 #1.. well i think u already answered it.. something u want me to answer instead perhaps? | ||
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On January 25 2013 16:35 Chezinu wrote: Was he really the driving force? To me, 5touch was more of the driving force. Its ok you prob read in haste On January 25 2013 16:28 Mocsta wrote: he was a driving force behind prplhz lynch? Are you suggesting Bugs took a bus approach to get town cred for Day1 gambit? Chez.. do you think Bugs who contributed in lynching prplhz would be scum? I.e. playing a gambit to get town cred? | ||
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When the game started, you held a lot of authority. Supplementing this, many seemed to like you. As the game progressed your contributions became scarce. I think you blamed the lack of commitment due to midterms. Now that 2 mafia have been lynched, your activity has spruced.. coincidence? What are you planning to reciprocate back to town, now that your activity has increased? | ||
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At the same time with ur style i actualy dont want to pressure u either. Seriously though. If u think 5T was elected due to mason circle. U r not reading the thread from over 40hrs ago. 5T was a voice of reason. Thats why he was elected.. He summarises it all in a post addressed to oats. Stop being lazy and read the game.. | ||
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On January 25 2013 17:24 Chezinu wrote: I wasn't planning on reciprocating. I have to entertain the Great Observers you know. oh and it was a single midterm not midterms. "many seemed to like you." Really? the votes said the contrary. Knowing that I couldn't get mayor and finding out it wouldn't be best for town if I was, I decided to play the brown. Chezinu. If u dont reciprocate how else do u plan to influence our read on u? Also can u pls share your thoughts on axlegreaser. P.s. Many liked u d1. U barely posted and received several votes. U also said 2 ppl masoned u. So there must have been some attraction. | ||
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On January 25 2013 18:05 Toadesstern wrote: Ok I'll put this out here for possible vigs and medics I'll flip a coin tonight. If it's heads I'll jail BKE. If it's tails I'll jail Vivax. Just don't want vigs to shoot BKE when I'm jailing him and I don't want medics to waste protection on Vivax when there's about 0 chance he's getting shot because mafia will just RB him, assuming they have an RB like in 99% of every game on TL that isn't a pure vanilla game. One interesting thing to remember for possible medics: I can medic a person only ONCE per game, so if you're not sure what to do just protect WBG. I'd still say he's likely to be shot and there's exactly 0% chance for me to change my mind and protect him tonight. This logic doesnt make sense to me. If mafia RB vivax, why would they burn KP on him? Its one or the other, either way he doesnt get a DT check. You jailing him, he still doesnt get a DT check. Wheres the value? The only value i can see is if you think he will add value to scum hunting day3 without DT information. | ||
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On January 25 2013 19:03 AxleGreaser wrote: Ok. Yam that might be true but what is the effect on our ability to find scum if the wagon on Annul Starts early in D2 gathers a lot of momentum. Is that likely to be good for the amount of information scum is forced to give away or not? Even if Annul is scum, an early fast wagon will lead to less effective scum hunting that can act as resource for subsequent days? Would you agree with those statements? Axle, I see the point you are raising, but this is normal play. Annul was a weak scum read. You pressure on, and determine if he comes null to town; or strong scum read. I dont see a problem with this move. Axle.. i see you questioning many people over their behaviour and direction they are trying to give. Could you please indicate who your top scum read is, and why. | ||
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On January 25 2013 19:37 Toadesstern wrote: the value is that I think someone might be stupid enough to think vivax needs a protection. I'm forcing medics to protect something else with that statement :p I roleblock townies while protection so IF someone is going to waste protection on vivax let it at least be me in case I get tails that is. hmm OK, I have faith in your experience and decision making. | ||
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On January 25 2013 21:22 AxleGreaser wrote: On January 25 2013 17:29 Mocsta wrote: Axle ur a null to leaning scum read for me. At the same time with ur style i actualy dont want to pressure u either. Seriously though. If u think 5T was elected due to mason circle. U r not reading the thread from over 40hrs ago. 5T was a voice of reason. Thats why he was elected.. He summarises it all in a post addressed to oats. Stop being lazy and read the game.. Given that you appear to be responding to post where i did not suggest what you claim I did please stop being lazy and read my post. Are you being serious? On January 25 2013 17:15 AxleGreaser wrote: In the end it seemed to me that Five touch got elected for reasons that I simply am not privy to. Dont like mason games..... Are you telling me those two sentences are not directly related? | ||
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I thought ad-hominem only applies if instead of attacking your argument, he attacks your character. Hes just pointing out a statement "I cant believe how bad you're at this game" Its not used directly to debunk your argument So technically speaking, its not ad-hominem | ||
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its very effective in persuading others not in the argument to join a side; But.. usually its also indicative of conceding the argument; all good at least your in a better mood today Vivaxthats what matters | ||
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On January 25 2013 22:53 Oatsmaster wrote: What is with the sudden spike of the phrase, ad-hominem? like a month ago it was nowhere, now it is everywhere. Like whats wrong with personal attacks? Lol you used fallacy this game, its no diff | ||
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I guess because it implies authority (via education). So using the word becomes condescending for the recipient. but this is all post-game talk, so thats the last im speaking of it. | ||
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I dont have any spreadsheets to share. If I am around Day3, I would vote BKE and 2nd vote split between Chez & Axle, depending on how questions go. Ciao. | ||
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(1) To all doubters of BKE... compare him to Annul and the activity difference when questioned about lurking.. Annul has been helpful since Day2 IMHO - even if its focussed only on his areas of interest... BKE completely different (2) To all doubters of Chez being town due to PM because he may have convinced the masons he was town... before that post, everyone was saying Chez is unreadable, hence its VERY unlikely he convinced anyone he was town... so considering that, it doesnt make sense to me for the mafia to have kept the two masons alive (or at least one of them instead of JX) when they had two masons that most likely thought NULL of Chez (3) Axle, Im OK leaving him for the next day.. though his activity level dropped it actulaly COULD be because we are at 135 pages (and the newbies would be 50 pages) its a big difference in commitment. But he really needs this Day3 to prove himself (4) Someone mentioned AustinMCC I think, I agree with this, hes null on the verge of either side for me. Somethigns he says are helpful, but IIRC its all setup speculation (and we all know what DjoDref did with setup speculation).. he needs to be questioned regardless of whether you think he is town/scum. Peace out and best of luck. Wont be back for like 12hrs (if I am alive) | ||
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look at what he speculated, vs'd what I raised about Gonzaw and the framing issue (in particular the VT timing) Im a newbie.. Austin is a vet.... why am I picking up on the points I did? On January 25 2013 09:25 Mocsta wrote: So gonzaw throws in the frame stuff to potentially play some WIFOM (In my last game (played scum).. we had already discussed if any of us was cop checked, we would play the frame card.. just like Gonzaw did now.. its a WIFOM bomb and very hard to dispute with the information in the thread) Whats interesting however is his initial response to being under the pump If I was VT. I would know straight away I been framed.. “hey guys I didn’t mason anybody.. im a vt” It takes him 15 min to post he is a VT.. this is suspect (if he was framed) Now, if we assume the frame is debuffed. This is interesting too Everyone was shocked ppl like JX were killed.. and his response is “I saw this coming” and immediately has the clarity of mind to assume vig… This is fishy as, and to me, with the jack check, makes sense.. he was already prepared to throw out vig before the kills occurred. | ||
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How'd I go from probably town to null Gotta go | ||
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wat THE | ||
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jailed BKE took KP to 1 OR if someone got saved by medic SPEAK UP | ||
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And im severely disapointed toad agrees with that list. E.g why is axle <1% scum....that is stupid. Bugs was jailed n1 so its not like he was a green check. Right now im for bke. As for 2nd vote. I would go annul. If annul is mad hatter we take out chezI who could be scum if annul is bullshitting than we take out a scum looka like win win to me. P.s. If u think im scum e.g fuba build ya case. find it convenient fuba calls me and yam svum AFTER bugs lidt comes out listing me and yam as 50/50. Very convenint. Fuck it. My 3 for scum is bke mkfuba chez or annul im voting bke plus fuba. I got more bbq tomorrow so dunno how active i will be. Bye gaiz | ||
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(1) Fuba On January 27 2013 01:02 mkfuba07 wrote: Anyway, I've decided that neither of you feel like scum to me, mostly based on general activity as well as voting (yamato) and something Chezinu said (mocsta). That might change if Chezinu doesn't flip red, but I'll get to that when I get to it. Explain what Chezinu said.... (2) Annul vs Chez On January 26 2013 22:19 Mocsta wrote: As for 2nd vote. I would go annul. If annul is mad hatter we take out chez who could be scum if annul is bullshitting than we take out a scum I thought the whole point of mad hatter was to become a thread influence and risk being shot; thus taking out someone... if Annul play is aimed at being a thread influence, I might as well give up on playing mafia cos I must be the retard.. (This is my assumption on how to play mad hatter, I am happy to be corrected on this) | ||
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On January 27 2013 04:31 Chezinu wrote: I just discovered what starsenses means. What? | ||
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On January 26 2013 11:09 annul wrote: toad: how many town masons do you know of right now? Are you doubting someone that contacted you? Maybe FT is worth asking, he has been contacted by others? | ||
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I dont get why him contacting one person and never again as indicative of town play; nor why it rules him out being scum? Yes, as scum it would be poor play; but why can't that be the intention? Hes signfiicantly more active in the ongoing Dessert mafia, why is he excused in this game from exhibiting signs of life? Im trying to improve, so would really like an answer to this please (whether here or in obs qt), as I am definitely missing a piece of the puzzle. | ||
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Importantly i appreciate the addition of he needs to be engaged, just not a priority for today. I can work with that. | ||
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Hence the being coy | ||
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A few have put me as 50/50. What is ur take. | ||
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disagree on heuristic though. Any alignment can break up a fight. Adam. Pls share thoughts on annul. As in if assumed town. Why! | ||
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On January 27 2013 12:15 debears wrote: yamato is the red check obviously I only havr phone access today. But i dont recall vivax stating he got a red check.. Hence i assume he got green and wants to pressure to determine if godfather. | ||
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You called me town before, lets reverse the situation. You say "Mocsta felt town, but now Im leaning scum" I say to you "well Adam... we have nothing left to discuss" what is your read on the situation? | ||
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you spoil all the fun.. why o why could you not wait for the answer from Adam? its not like I implied you directly in anything.. how curious your motives. yes I am a mason.. but why o why do you need to interject in this manner.. curious motives INDEED. | ||
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you spoil all the fun.. why o why could you not wait for the answer from Adam? its not like I implied you directly in anything.. how curious your motives. yes I am a mason.. but why o why do you need to interject in this manner.. curious motives INDEED. | ||
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As for Chez... Im surprised with your vet insight that you have not put two and two together: I am the mason that suggested to FT that Chez may be town due to the knowledge he possessed of me during night 1. I still think I would have been a better candidate than JX for a NK. Nothing said by Bugs persuaded me away from this. So moral of the story is.. if you want to continue pretending to scum hunt - keep thinking I am red. If the above post is all your justification, the riposte above is weak at best and a waste of time to read at worse. | ||
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I thought it was scum who was too lazy to filter search? My approach has stayed consistent.. yours on the other hand.. well theres a fair bit to say. You are over-reacting to small situations, now even going OMGUS into a vote. Thats not consistent with town motives Annul. Not in my book at least. On January 26 2013 09:58 Mocsta wrote: (2) To all doubters of Chez being town due to PM because he may have convinced the masons he was town... before that post, everyone was saying Chez is unreadable, hence its VERY unlikely he convinced anyone he was town... so considering that, it doesnt make sense to me for the mafia to have kept the two masons alive (or at least one of them instead of JX) when they had two masons that most likely thought NULL of Chez As for your random insert of Mad-Hatter On January 26 2013 22:19 Mocsta wrote: Right now im for bke. As for 2nd vote. I would go annul. If annul is mad hatter we take out chezI who could be scum if annul is bullshitting than we take out a scum looka like win win to me. I still think this is the best course of action all The way Annul has reacted to my prodding, is completely over the top. If he isnt lying we take out Chezinu potential, and if he is lying then we have taken out scum. AND.. if you want the PM I sent to FT regarding Chez before Night 2 ended here it is to confirm my thoughts on Chezinu Mocsta: Subject: chezinu innocence Date: 1/25/13 23:49 Hey. Last pm from me before cycle finishes. I had a brain wave and wanted to pass it by u. If u agree with logic and i die tonight u r welcome to post this in the thread. Day1 two masons contacted chez. Day2 the same two masons contacted u. U think both masons are town... If chez was mafia. Why werent me and the other mason killed? Neither of us would have a chance to communicate we contacted chezinu.. So would be easy one or two blue kills... I thought of this because someone suggested jx may have been an attempted blue snipe. If chez was scum it would make sense in my mind to hit me instead of jx...hence i think chezinu is now innocent. P.s thanks for listening to my rambles on the pm . I enjoyed this cycle a lot. Good luck with day 3 | ||
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(Sorry for the rant below, but this is kind of an issue that has been ongoing outside of this game) Look, the post I issued to Oats said it all. (that you pasted above) I wanted to change my meta after all the flaming I was getting. Last game I rolled scum, so stuck with my old meta (lots of text walls, and low contribution) This game, being town, I have been able to try something different. Maybe that is why you feel the language is different. Either way, you are welcome to make meta judgements on me.. but, please keep in my what I have tried to drive and achieve this game.. If you think that is town related, think of me as town... if you think I have tried to drive issues that benefit scum, than think of me as scum. Maybe not *Everything* I have done this game has been useful, but I would like to think I have a better post/content ratio than before. Lastly, i dont think newbie meta should be held accountable for ppl outside newbie games.. those 3 games are a chance for people to experiment with what works, and what doesnt. my newbie game style didnt work, so now im trying something different. [Yes I realise this is ironic to say considering I used meta against Oats.However, his character/style seems deeply entrenched already, still in hindsight I should have avoided taking that perspective and focus on the game at hand] | ||
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On January 27 2013 22:34 Vivax wrote: Chez post all your PMs please. I still want more opinions about yamato before I reveal the check. I know Adam's, FTs, but not Toad's. Toad wanted to discuss him at the start of the day but is not disinterested in doing so. Vivax, sounds like you checked Yamato. Considering your check would show role + alignment; I assume you got green check. The question is, did you receive a role other than vanilla; is that where the hesitation to reveal originates from? | ||
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Palmar is dead on. Im going to bed in 1 hr, and probably wont be awake at the deadline (its a public holiday tomorrow).As for yamato, all you do is talk about him, why else would I think it was someone else. As for green check, thats the only reason i can think of you requiring discussions prior to release. | ||
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You sprout so much stuff i have no reason to believe you received a red check as you have shared nothing since your declaration. Explain why this is scummy in nature to think? | ||
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I just did a filter search on you since Day 3 started (i.e. pgs 15-19) (ctrl+f: red) There is no mention you got a red check, so stop bullshitting like you told us what your check is. Second of all, all you have done is ask EVERYONE what they think of yamato77. Dont try and bullshit your way out of this one, the filter doesn't lie. | ||
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apologies. So can I assume your voting BKE + your red check? | ||
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As I said before, the only thing I could thing of, you get a green check and due to confirmation bias you were dead set on your check being the godfather. Hence instead trying to promote discussion around the check. To me that makes sense as a valid play. | ||
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I dont think Yamato is town to that degree, but based on a filter read on him, I thought his posts have driven town in a good direction. so yes, i think he is town (i just wouldnt say 99%.. i dont have that type of confidence in my reads in general).. you on the other hand have been campaigning for him to be lynched all game, it wouldnt surprise me if you got a green check and said.. ohh.. he must be the godfather. the actions you have taken all game support that you would make this move. | ||
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your check on gonzaw was a good play. he was kinda out of the spotlight at the end of Night 1, so you had great foresight to make that check. as for the second check, i doubt there was a framer involved. only because who you checked to me seems unpredictable. The chance of a framer connecting is (literally) 1/16. If i haphazard a guess, I would think you cop checked Clarity/Adam. But thats the move I would do as a cop (and I havnt been a cop before) | ||
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(1) Axle has nothing to do with it.. im saying.. some players have the confidence to say.. player x is 99% town... im saying i do not have that confidence. .. I think yamato is town, but i wouldnt bet my life on it (i.e. 99% confidence) | ||
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Half your game has been hammering yamato, the other half is demanding FT give up his two masons. Anyways, I didnt notice you would check yamato, to be frank, most of your posts I ignore/skim. I apologise for posting opinions without reading your posts in full detail, but you write so convoluted you make me think of AxleGreaser...the difference is with you I think it is intentional. | ||
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BTW... nob head isnt being ad-hominem, im not attacking your argument with that statement. im quoting fact. | ||
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I suspect Vivax put 22 names in a hat (including his own) and plucked out Gonzaw to determine Night1 check. | ||
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I'll bite. Indulge me on why. | ||
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P.S. I rescind the use of "good play" in association with your name, due to the below. On January 28 2013 00:32 Mocsta wrote: Its obvious now the check on Gonzaw was a fluke. I suspect Vivax put 22 names in a hat (including his own) and plucked out Gonzaw to determine Night1 check. | ||
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Im comfortable with mkfuba07, Oats summarised him quite well. The guy is a master blender. Im not sold on clarity being town, the excuse that scum wouldnt lose a guy whilst valid, is not a 100% heuristic. He needs to be scrutinised, but I think with 12hrs to go and him being at midnight (or close to it) we have to leave him for Day 4. So im BKE + mkfuba07 | ||
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On January 27 2013 05:08 Mocsta wrote: Day3 ##Vote: BKE ##Vote: mkfuba07 | ||
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Vivax was in my opinion one of the most challenging aspects to being town leader, but I think the situation has been handled as best it could. I definitely feel more comfortable/confident this game, than any of my previous ones. I agree, a lot is to do with the leadership. | ||
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whilst your here.. what do you make of austinmcc "ninja" vote and his declining presence in the thread? | ||
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Or mine regarding austin? | ||
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see u on the flip side. | ||
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DID YOU MASON VIVAX! | ||
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On January 28 2013 08:19 Mocsta wrote: Chezinu DID YOU MASON VIVAX! On January 28 2013 08:20 Vivax wrote: Nah All My vote is going on Chezinu + Vivax On January 25 2013 09:17 Mocsta wrote: Your not confirmed town in my eyes. If you hit a second mafia then I will reconsider.. With your play so far im not ruling out a bus. I never ruled out a bus from Vivax, due to the consistent anti-town play. This sparked my curiosity over night. (It is clutching at straws a bit, but the release is just too convenient not to ride with considering all of Vivax actions this game) On January 28 2013 02:04 Vivax wrote: Reciprocity This is specifically something, Chezinu raised to me via mason PM (and I assume Chezinu and his other masons) Its from the 6 weapons of influence: #1 Reciprocity, #2 Consistency, #3 Social Proof, #4 Liking, #5 Authority, #6 Scarcity Check this out. On January 24 2013 09:29 Mocsta wrote: Chezinu.. I like this game See why now I used the word Liked.. its due to Chez saying #4 The below is me antagonising Chez using his own "code words" On January 25 2013 16:56 Mocsta wrote: Chezinu When the game started, you held a lot of authority. Supplementing this, many seemed to like you. As the game progressed your contributions became scarce. I think you blamed the lack of commitment due to midterms. Now that 2 mafia have been lynched, your activity has spruced.. coincidence? What are you planning to reciprocate back to town, now that your activity has increased? I never thought he was town, but I didnt have anything to directly suggest he was scum. The problem is.. again.. Vivax release of jsut the word "reciprocity" it has brought me back to Chezinu.. Vivax said they didn't mason, so now im thinking scum qt... (had to rush this to get it out b4 lynch deadline) | ||
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##Vote: Chezinu ##Vote: Vivax | ||
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im trying to highlight a relationship between Chez (whose fate is also sealed) and Vivax mainly because its apublic holiday today, and I really doubt I will be present for the first half of Night3. So I am trying to raise attention. if you think the "case?" is strawman, fine... but.. its a fuckn weird coincidence. | ||
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you have to try harder than that | ||
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On January 28 2013 08:26 Mocsta wrote: The below is me antagonising Chez using his own "code words" On January 25 2013 16:56 Mocsta wrote: Chezinu When the game started, you held a lot of authority. Supplementing this, many seemed to like you. As the game progressed your contributions became scarce. I think you blamed the lack of commitment (Commitment = Consistency) due to midterms. Now that 2 mafia have been lynched, your activity has spruced.. coincidence? What are you planning to reciprocate back to town, now that your activity has increased? That uses 5 code words out of 6... and was posted WAY before you posted receiprocity with no mason link to Chezinu as i said.. very odd behaviour and the way your going out of cahracter to defend it is odd as well... havent seen you respond like a normal person in this game before (yet you do it now) | ||
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sudden change in tact Vivax; want to share why. | ||
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Im still waiting fora response On January 27 2013 16:16 Mocsta wrote: Adam.. just a general question to figure out your mind set now that you have settled in. You called me town before, lets reverse the situation. You say "Mocsta felt town, but now Im leaning scum" I say to you "well Adam... we have nothing left to discuss" what is your read on the situation? (This now has nothing to do with Annul, i want your insight) | ||
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On January 28 2013 10:00 Adam4167 wrote: Mainly just his initial interaction with Prplhz. If he is indeed scum, would he have gone through with lynching prplhz for 'breaking the chezinu rule'? He has a rule, he has to follow through. It is certainly not alignment indicative & Your town read on me due to On January 27 2013 13:36 Adam4167 wrote: Town. Telling vivax and toad to put their stupid sadfest on hold was very town. That again is easy to do, and certainly not alignment indicative. I dunno how many games you played though, so not sure whether its scum sitting on the fence with easy calls.. or you genuinely are not sure. | ||
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at least mafia on 1KP now | ||
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and have lost 2 masons.. what are the chances they would have >2 masons on a 5 man team? | ||
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The original post It says they have to distribute jack, GF, framer, roleblocker between themselves "you also must choose the Godfather, Roleblocker, Jack, and/or Framer from among yourselves. These [potentially] four Mafia power roles must be separately distributed, meaning one Mafia member can only possess one of these powers." There can only be one of each role... why chose goon over framer? | ||
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On January 28 2013 10:07 Oatsmaster wrote: Scum on 1 KP, town is almost definitely gonna win. What is with this post? Due to On January 26 2013 22:19 Mocsta wrote: As for 2nd vote. I would go annul. If annul is mad hatter we take out chezI who could be scum if annul is bullshitting than we take out a scum | ||
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On January 28 2013 10:10 Mocsta wrote: The original post It says they have to distribute jack, GF, framer, roleblocker between themselves "you also must choose the Godfather, Roleblocker, Jack, and/or Framer from among yourselves. These [potentially] four Mafia power roles must be separately distributed, meaning one Mafia member can only possess one of these powers." There can only be one of each role... why chose goon over framer? Ohh ok I interpret that as.. 5 players, choose the roles you want out of this pool. Remember gonzaqw "prince of bel air jack rhyme" he goes he PM host to take jack... | ||
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maybe there is no medic.. but im just saying how i interpret the OP | ||
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i.e. as soon as I called him scum.. he instantly cut off communication. he didtn even ask why i thought he was scum or tried to argue being town he didnt post the PM logs UNTIL I asked Adam for his take on the situation, then he freaks out and posts everything; putting out that I was a mason (something FT went out of his way not to release) So yes I was suspicious of him, ande made that point about him bullshitting being mad hatter | ||
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I read this like 20min ago in Normal Mini mafia (Was bored so started reading that) On January 26 2013 09:46 Vivax wrote: [If you are town, my attacks aren't just a bit odd, they should be stupid. Somes up his game to a tee atm in my opinino. | ||
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I thought the way the roles went was that the letter for mad hatter had to come up multiple times, to get multiple characters. therefore, the chances of 1 mad hatter >>> chances of 2 mad hatter (Statistically) same reason its unlikely to have 3 detectives | ||
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its from the wiki mafia site | ||
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On January 28 2013 10:36 FiveTouch wrote: like, you seem to be accepting the existence of 2 detectives... Do i? Didnt think I was following Vivax around blindly And the 3 Dets vs 2 mad haters, was due to me thinking it was letter rolling. (as all the games i played have been like that) austin/adam already cleared that up. i said i apologised for confusion. I obviously shoudl have shut up when im not familiar with how all this stuff works. I realise that now and am avoiding any setup talk, its clear i dont know it. | ||
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On January 28 2013 10:39 Adam4167 wrote: If you are the detective you claim to be, you can prove it tonight by providing a non-bullshit check on someone that doesn't die. How do you prove this? (non-bullshit check) He can choose any number of players to say "is town" and to make it easier.. can just say a mason is town, as he knows who is mason, and he knows who is town.. if he misses scum its convenient.. theres what 12-14 players left, 2 scum? 1/6 chance to hit scum by lottery. | ||
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On January 28 2013 10:40 FiveTouch wrote: but you said 3 DTs was unlikely, which implies that 2 is likely, whereas 2 mad hatters was extremely unlikely. This is kinda curious. Nope your over reading it im saying I thought the probablities are 1 same role >>> 2 same role >>> 3 same role I used DT as a quick counter example, but applies to any role. | ||
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(1) we have no idea the # of mafia power roles - stop guessing (2) we have no idea the # of mafia masons - so all masons need to be scrutinised (yes including me) QUESTION. If medic was on bugs... and mafia used 2KP to shoot bugs.. would he have died (i.e. first bullet saved by medic, 2nd bullet kill shot?) | ||
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hence the question. | ||
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On January 28 2013 10:51 Oatsmaster wrote: Why does it matter whether there was a medic on Bugs? Do you want him to out himself? Nope.. not @ all i want to know if a medic can save 2KP BKE wasnt mafia.. so Night 2.. scum had 2KP.. | ||
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the question is clear.. @austin. yes i know we discussed double stack.. ohh wait.. night 2 there was 4 scum players, so 2KP.. if BKE was jailed as scum, the KP would still be 2. kk so musing is pointless.. got it.. sorry im feeling slow today.. gonna take a break | ||
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On January 28 2013 11:01 Oatsmaster wrote: No Mocsta, I dont have reading comprehension issues, you have explanation issues. Why do you want to know if a medic saves 2kp? On January 28 2013 10:52 Mocsta wrote: BKE wasnt mafia.. so Night 2.. scum had 2KP.. QUESTION. If medic was on bugs... and mafia used 2KP to shoot bugs.. would he have died (i.e. first bullet saved by medic, 2nd bullet kill shot?)[/QUOTE] The answer was yes.. 2KP on bugs with 1 medic = dead bugs.. thats all i wanted to know i havent asked if medic was on bugs, nor do I care. get over yourself, you are constantly trying to inflate a direct question. there is no hidden agenda with that question. | ||
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On January 28 2013 11:08 Oatsmaster wrote: No Mocsta, that question makes no sense cause bugs is already dead. It is an absolutely useless question, which makes me wonder why you are defending it so hard. it might be useless to u that doesnt make it useless we all have our own heuristics and i havent defended it u have asked for continual clarification without directing what u want clarified. u ask shit questions, u get shit answers its not my problem u dont like what im saying.. but that certainly does not make it useless | ||
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The only major thing iirc is he asks my opinion on yamato and says he thibks he is more town than me. O.s. He doesnt refer to yamato by name. I only found out it wsd yamato later | ||
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Mocsta Welcome mr. Brown. I have taken the bait you laid. You have been masoned. I await your feedback. Chezinu Hello there. I mentioned in the thread that masons should mason the mayor. I am not the mayor....yet. So, perhaps you think I will be. Well good! For I will need trusted masons to give some top secret information too. Ah, but townie masons may not be the only ones who will be talking to me. For mafia could have masons too! The most trusted of the masons shall receive the information that could save the town in case of disaster! The disaster being of someone's death. It would also be good if masons would contact the sheriff as well. To gain my trust. What do you think of yam? And I'm not asking about food. I'm asking about a player.. Mocsta This is very different to the newbie games. Love it. For your question: Yamato Null. From what I have seen with him in the past, he is hot-headed and overtly aggressive, but nonetheless is a discussion promoter, if not controversial one. From his play so far, nothing he has said is specifically town motivated. But overall the early day contributions for me are lacking. As you are aware of. The land of the brown is an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth. To gain my trust. What do you think of Grush? And I'm not asking about 'When a straight girl has a non-sexual "crush" on another girl'. I'm asking about a player.. Chezinu Ah, your mirroring me. That's a great way to gains ones trust. So, that's what grush means? I though it was just a random user name. Interesting... grush - I've seen him play mafia a lot. He is usually the first to go. As townie, I don't know. Toad no like grush Grush like yam! As for the trade, null! muhahaha You say the land of the brown. Pshh... When it comes to the Chezinu the Brown. His servants usually obey. Look at the bear. Nice and obedient little bear... So, I will give you more information. Your not the only one talking to me...What do you think about multiple masons? Mocsta Interesting. Toad no like Grush. Grush like yam! Syllogism: Toad no like YAM! Multiple masons speaking to you. it is conceivable. Perhaps they communicated with you for the same reasons as I.. but.. lets not lead to non-sequiturs. Others are talking to you.. Perhaps mafia has communicated with you, but as you pointed out earlier, there would be no value to this,as mayor Chezinu is currently not. Perhaps you are mason, but then, by choice, or by role. The wine is indeed strong. P.S. "His servants usually obey." Luckily I am not the status quo. Next!! Chezinu Would you like to speak to the other? I can get in an IRC with you and then get in an IRC with the other. I can talk to you in one and copy paste your comments in the other. I can then copy paste the other's comments in the IRC that you are in! Brilliant isn't it!?!?!? The other hasn't replied back to my recent pms.. So we may have to do this later. But what do you think? Mocsta Not interested... I am concerned Chezinu. You want to run for Mayor; and you blatantly ignore the WIFOM I phrased earlier?!?!? How do you choose to address this matter? Chezinu "WIFOM" I ignore that word. Bad players use that word. We are in PMland! This is a friendly land full of fun! There is no need to get mad.... for explosions will go off by themselves! Just sit back and watch the fireworks! Mocsta OK. Lets play a game. Peek-a-boo.. I see you. So now that you have multiple admirers, peeking at you. What is your take on me. Chezinu I no like you! You no listen. You no play my game. Yet you want me to play your game. Mocsta So.. why do you think I masoned you. Chezinu I was thinking for the very same reason the other did. I was just waiting for you to ask the question. The other asked and I told. Mocsta Please extrapolate Chezinu I was guessing you misread my post in the thread? Mocsta misread intentionally? that is the question i ask Chezinu .... you know, we could be having a productive discussion like I am with the other mason... All you have to do is act a bit more sane. Mocsta Lead the way pls, and follow I may. Chezinu Ok, both of you masons are currently talking to me. Do you guys want to talk through me? We moved to IRC.. i dont have the logs saved, He then PMs me this stuff Chezinu - Title: Trust Granted + Show Spoiler + Note: its kind out of date. I made some changes since then. Oh and this was directed to the other mason - plz ignore the weird. You were suppose to mason the mayor! Unless... you are choosing me to be the mayor ))). OR are you mafia? Trying to obtain my secret plans to destroy you! Well well... Guess someone has to take some risks.. To say or not to say? That is the question. OK RISK TIME! Going to assume that you are townie. If you are, great things can happen. If you are not, well it will only spoil one of my plans, but it won't hurt it that much as you will soon know. Here it is: I realized that the mayor would not be completely safe from mafia. The mafia will be able to substitute town bodyguards with mafia ones. How many bodyguards will there be? I don't know. But we do know that mafia can substitute 0-2 bodyguards. These bodyguards will be covering the elected officials. Are they assigned specifically to mayor or sheriff? I'm not sure. They could be divided or act as a cover for both. At minimum, I'm hoping we will at least have 4 bodyguards. I think it would be too imbalanced if mafia could substitute all of the bodyguards. That would mean, the mayor could die right after election. So, where am I going with this? The town will not know who is selected as bodyguards, but the elected roles will. This is why it is essential that the masons contact the mayor/sheriff. The mayor can give the lists of bodyguards to the most trusted masons. If everything goes extremely well and masons happen to find the medic, well the medic can protect the bodyguards. If the mayor dies at night and not all the bodyguards are dead. The masons with the bodyguard lists shall announce the list to town. All bodyguards on that list will be mafia. Now, for the hard part. The mafia have masons too. This is where the mayor has to be discerning. Not only does the mayor have to earn town trust, but the masons need to gain the trust of the mayor. I'm sure there will be more than one mason for town and at least one mason for mafia. If not, this game would be all too easy. This mayor stuff will get messy and will get nasty. It has happened every single time in the past that I played the game with elected officials. If I get elected, this will be the first time I will be in the inside (never had a blue role in those games). Now, the mayor will be safe with the masons if he tells them the bodyguard list (if they are town). It will just cause disaster if he releases the list to the mafia. So as mayor, I will not release the list until at least some of the bodyguards die. Don't want to kill innocent bodyguards just in case mafia doesn't sub. However, if it turns out there are only 2 bodyguards defending me -- I will have to give a list to a mason. Then complain that the game is imba. As I mentioned in the thread, masons aren't the only solution to save the mayor. If the mayor himself is a veteran and the mafia sub bodyguards, well we just get free mafia lynches! Or perhaps a medic could protect the mayor (but this would only work if medic is quiet about it and mafia don't know. The medic shouldn't protect mayor until some bodyguards die). As for who I will lynch, I'm thinking the Chezinu Rule. What do you think about that? Later sends this Chezinu You may not choose a person you have already Masoned with for the remainder of the game. So, does this mean that I shouldn't become mayor? Seeing that two people already masoned me, if I'm mayor I won't be able to tell anyone who the bodyguards are... So by talking to me, your kind of eliminating my chances to become a good mayor. And when I hadn't voted 4 hrs to the deadline. sends me this. Chezinu - Title: Vote!! Save yourself! | ||
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I do not have the IRC stuff, but that is where we discussed the 6 weapons of influence etc (i.e. #1 reciprocity etc) Anyways, of note.. Chezinu says: On January 28 2013 19:13 Mocsta wrote: Chezinu grush - I've seen him play mafia a lot. He is usually the first to go. As townie, I don't know. Toad no like grush Grush like yam! Chez is now confirmed mafia, and says he not sure if Grush is town. WHAT is weird. is.. Chezinu says "Grush like yam!"... this was WAY before yamato came out and said Grush mason him. Im not sure what to make of this... just got home from another bbq, so not in the mood to think. | ||
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Day 1 Yamato -> (masoned) -> Chezinu Mocsta -> (masoned) -> Chezinu Grush -> (masoned) -> Yamato Toad -> (masoned) -> Sandroba Chezinu -> ??? Gonzaw -> ??? Day 2 Yamato -> (masoned) -> FiveTouch Mocsta -> (masoned) -> FiveTouch Grush -> ??? Toad -> ??? Chezinu -> ??? Gonzaw -> ??? Day 3 Yamato -> ??? Mocsta -> (masoned) -> Annul Grush -> ??? Toad -> FiveTouch Chezinu -> FiveTouch | ||
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On January 28 2013 21:04 annul wrote: was there a four way chat going on on day 1 among the grush - yamato - chezinu - mocsta chain? Nope On January 28 2013 19:38 Mocsta wrote: twas yamato, but i didnt find that out until Night 2. and I didnt know Grush was mason till Yamato gave that information out. | ||
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(1) I took his bait about having information and wanted to satisfy my curiosity. I also didnt think he would be mayor so was willing to burn a mason cycle on him (it was as I posted to him in the PM) (2) His first response to me was @ " 1/20/13 22:31" (3) No, he said he had another mason linked to him. I didnt want to know anything about it (refer to logs). When we shifted to IRC, it was just me and Chezinu. I dont have those logs available. The quote you highlighted was written before we moved to IRC. | ||
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If you want to ask me questions, now is the time. | ||
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Keeping tunneling me all you want (Im assuming your finally off Yamato) | ||
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In my first post I will write starsenses and subsequently i will make one post per cycle. The outcome: Vivax will think I am town. Awesome heuristics there Vivax. | ||
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Im going to bed now. Last wishes: mkfuba is still my #1 he has added some token posts into the fray, but nothing is really contributing, its just agreeing with status quo and in my opinion trying to blend in. I dont recall any original thought within his posts either. | ||
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On January 26 2013 10:00 Mocsta wrote: OOOO.. the other thing with Austin is him developing the framer informatoin. look at what he speculated, vs'd what I raised about Gonzaw and the framing issue (in particular the VT timing) Im a newbie.. Austin is a vet.... why am I picking up on the points I did? On January 25 2013 09:25 Mocsta wrote: So gonzaw throws in the frame stuff to potentially play some WIFOM (In my last game (played scum).. we had already discussed if any of us was cop checked, we would play the frame card.. just like Gonzaw did now.. its a WIFOM bomb and very hard to dispute with the information in the thread) Whats interesting however is his initial response to being under the pump If I was VT. I would know straight away I been framed.. “hey guys I didn’t mason anybody.. im a vt” It takes him 15 min to post he is a VT.. this is suspect (if he was framed) Now, if we assume the frame is debuffed. This is interesting too Everyone was shocked ppl like JX were killed.. and his response is “I saw this coming” and immediately has the clarity of mind to assume vig… This is fishy as, and to me, with the jack check, makes sense.. he was already prepared to throw out vig before the kills occurred. | ||
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Grush mason you and u keep your mouth shut this entire time. And have the tenacity to ask me for logs. Thats a big fuck you right there. P.s. Yamato after mafia LVIII u said u were going to try to tunnel less. Regarding austin. U said "i refuse to believe ....." that sounds pretty tunneled to me. We need to be willing to hear both sides of the story before making a conclusion. | ||
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What r u doing to contribute to the scum hunt? Who r your reads..where is your pressure. U ask for more logs but dont even give an opinion on the currently presented ones... Wtf p.s. It takes a long time to collate them. So the answer for u. Is no at this stage | ||
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Why am i out here giving u and town information. And ur just shutting your mouth. U r the only person that may have had a meaningful interaction with grush this gamr. And we dont even know if u think he is town. | ||
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Either 1. Ur bad at this gamr and dt check bugs or 2. U lied about bugs to make u look an idiot to keep u alive longer Either way. U have been anti town this whole game and ur back on the auto ignore list o let me guesd to. Im scum now as well | ||
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On January 29 2013 08:40 mkfuba07 wrote: Chill out mocsta. I'm trying to get a handle on the thread. Anything specific you'd like me to talk about? On January 29 2013 08:15 Mocsta wrote: What r u doing to contribute to the scum hunt? Who r your reads..where is your pressure. U ask for more logs but dont even give an opinion on the currently presented ones... Wtf All of the above would be a good start I think. | ||
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Mocsta
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I take it as a compliment I was offed GO TOWN! | ||
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Swapping Oats for Gonzaw still wasn't a bad return @ all Well done to everyone, GG Marv/Toad. | ||
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Mocsta
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On February 02 2013 17:24 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: I can only speak for the N1 shot. Also, there were 3 reasons for not shooting ...Mocsta (I said so in the previous post but whatever): 3)That "unexplained" thing I mentioned before. Awww.. how cute. I made such a good impression on Chez he wanted to keep me alive | ||
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