EPTIf we lynch a BG and he is town.. scum still 2 KP and mayor/sheriff have no protection. (assuming 1 bg = town)
The risk isnt worth it.
TL Mafia LIX - Page 98
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Mocsta
Australia9389 Posts
If we lynch a BG and he is town.. scum still 2 KP and mayor/sheriff have no protection. (assuming 1 bg = town) The risk isnt worth it. | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9389 Posts
TL;DR I am confused. When he writes, I like what I read. It feels fluent and natural; I almost feel like its written in my style, so I can associate to that and hence, want to like him. The problem is.. his actions aren’t matching to the words. On January 20 2013 13:58 gonzaw wrote: My candidacy is based on these 2 things: 1)I'll try to establish my innocence as much as I can 2)I'll try my best to hunt scum today, and everyday from now on That's it. After reading his 6 pages of filter, I have noticed a distinct drop in scum hunting since FiveTouch came into the scene. Most of his ramblings are thread status quo related, and his case on continuous read Oats originates after Oats pressures him. There is also the major problem of “kind of saw this coming to be honest” in regards to the NKs. This is just plain odd and has not been addressed satisfactorily (see spoiler for more) So in short, He left a great first impression with me, but is now not living up to the promises he made. I have stronger reads in BKE/Oats though, so I will pen Gonzaw in as: I think he is leaning towards scum.
Analysis + Show Spoiler + This is my general thoughts as I went through the 6 pages of filter. Its barely edited (sorry  )(1) I like his mayor campaign. Points I agree with. I dont think its straight forward to input this, otherwise, all the other candidates would have as well! (2) I like his Day1 questions. They are prods and I think are written to promote discussion. I am taking this as effective scum hunting due to nature of early Day1. (3) Interestingly enough.. gonzaw says he can understand Chez http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=393344¤tpage=15#297 I would very keen to hear Gonzaw insight on Chezinu currently! (4) Once FT comes into the thread, Gonzaw starts to spam his random thoughts. This is weird, especially because prplhz was around; and there were also others around (e.g. Toad etc) (5) He disagrees with the prplhz lynch, but its more just hey im not convinced. its not a hard defense This is reenforced when to me he says On January 21 2013 13:51 gonzaw wrote: Don't really know what to think of debears/grush; they are not making much sense and are kind of "trolling" with their votes and some of their reads, but that's too null to blindly lynch on D1. (6) Asks FT to choose Oats > prplhz I think this is sound.. earlier gonzaw said he agreed with aspects of the oatmaster points Fivetouch raised (7) When he concedes FT as mayor I like the post. Again feels like natural thoughts. I agree that prplhz felt like taking a stab in the dark. but really any day1 lynch is going to be like that. you have to go off a hunch with the limited time to get information. Again pushes for oats by suggestion. hmmm. Also calls out chez for swapping votes ?three? times... i want to know thoughts on this. Austin -> BKE -> Gonzaw) Night 1 Still supports Oats hmmm has blended in.. asks status quo questions.. doesnt seem to be scum hunting (p4) Then says if i die.. take out Oats/Annul.. but hasnt added anything further to them. On January 23 2013 10:36 gonzaw wrote: Kind of saw this coming to be honest (except the sandro kill). Unless some of them were a vig shot. Oats, you seem to be active, why haven't you addressed my response to your "case"? Five, could have scum killed you+Toad last night if both debears+Oats were scum and "subbed in"? This is a really weird post, and I cant wrap my finger around it. im not satisfied with response.. its token. On January 23 2013 10:41 gonzaw wrote: I always see scum doing weird shit with night kills. Every time you expect some guys to be killed they killed others, etc. I didn't really think Jiexian or Djoref were scum, so I'm not surprised they were offed. The problem wasnt that they werent scum.. the problem was that no1 was a vet.. and JX had no impact on the game, and rather was under suspicion.. its fucked up.. why he saw it coming just isn’t satisfactorily answered. He also keeps saying haven’t read for a while all the time.. Also Doesn’t build case on oats until oats pressures him.. really odd, but has kept suggesting his lynch Overall, no major attempts to contribute with scum hunting, even though it was a campaign goal. So in summary he left a great first impression on me.. but as the game has gone, he as kept saying he needs to catch up and is starting to express disinterest in the game. He has contributed minimally to scum hunting, and whilst having 6 pages, most is based about current thread discussions instead of scum hunting. Considering he didnt seriously push hard for the mayor position, I dont think its a case of butthurt causing the decline in interest. I can definitely attribute this behaviour to scum play. But, before outright declaring him scum, I would like his take of what I noticed. | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
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BroodKingEXE
United States829 Posts
On January 24 2013 13:41 Mocsta wrote: So because thread died, I decided to have a looksee @ Gonzaw. - Please share your thoughts. TL;DR I am confused. When he writes, I like what I read. It feels fluent and natural; I almost feel like its written in my style, so I can associate to that and hence, want to like him. The problem is.. his actions aren’t matching to the words. After reading his 6 pages of filter, I have noticed a distinct drop in scum hunting since FiveTouch came into the scene. Most of his ramblings are thread status quo related, and his case on continuous read Oats originates after Oats pressures him. There is also the major problem of “kind of saw this coming to be honest” in regards to the NKs. This is just plain odd and has not been addressed satisfactorily (see spoiler for more) So in short, He left a great first impression with me, but is now not living up to the promises he made. I have stronger reads in BKE/Oats though, so I will pen Gonzaw in as: I think he is leaning towards scum.
Analysis + Show Spoiler + This is my general thoughts as I went through the 6 pages of filter. Its barely edited (sorry )(1) I like his mayor campaign. Points I agree with. I dont think its straight forward to input this, otherwise, all the other candidates would have as well! (2) I like his Day1 questions. They are prods and I think are written to promote discussion. I am taking this as effective scum hunting due to nature of early Day1. (3) Interestingly enough.. gonzaw says he can understand Chez http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=393344¤tpage=15#297 I would very keen to hear Gonzaw insight on Chezinu currently! (4) Once FT comes into the thread, Gonzaw starts to spam his random thoughts. This is weird, especially because prplhz was around; and there were also others around (e.g. Toad etc) (5) He disagrees with the prplhz lynch, but its more just hey im not convinced. its not a hard defense This is reenforced when to me he says On January 21 2013 13:51 gonzaw wrote: Don't really know what to think of debears/grush; they are not making much sense and are kind of "trolling" with their votes and some of their reads, but that's too null to blindly lynch on D1. (6) Asks FT to choose Oats > prplhz I think this is sound.. earlier gonzaw said he agreed with aspects of the oatmaster points Fivetouch raised (7) When he concedes FT as mayor I like the post. Again feels like natural thoughts. I agree that prplhz felt like taking a stab in the dark. but really any day1 lynch is going to be like that. you have to go off a hunch with the limited time to get information. Again pushes for oats by suggestion. hmmm. Also calls out chez for swapping votes ?three? times... i want to know thoughts on this. Austin -> BKE -> Gonzaw) Night 1 Still supports Oats hmmm has blended in.. asks status quo questions.. doesnt seem to be scum hunting (p4) Then says if i die.. take out Oats/Annul.. but hasnt added anything further to them. On January 23 2013 10:36 gonzaw wrote: Kind of saw this coming to be honest (except the sandro kill). Unless some of them were a vig shot. Oats, you seem to be active, why haven't you addressed my response to your "case"? Five, could have scum killed you+Toad last night if both debears+Oats were scum and "subbed in"? This is a really weird post, and I cant wrap my finger around it. im not satisfied with response.. its token. On January 23 2013 10:41 gonzaw wrote: I always see scum doing weird shit with night kills. Every time you expect some guys to be killed they killed others, etc. I didn't really think Jiexian or Djoref were scum, so I'm not surprised they were offed. The problem wasnt that they werent scum.. the problem was that no1 was a vet.. and JX had no impact on the game, and rather was under suspicion.. its fucked up.. why he saw it coming just isn’t satisfactorily answered. He also keeps saying haven’t read for a while all the time.. Also Doesn’t build case on oats until oats pressures him.. really odd, but has kept suggesting his lynch Overall, no major attempts to contribute with scum hunting, even though it was a campaign goal. So in summary he left a great first impression on me.. but as the game has gone, he as kept saying he needs to catch up and is starting to express disinterest in the game. He has contributed minimally to scum hunting, and whilst having 6 pages, most is based about current thread discussions instead of scum hunting. Considering he didnt seriously push hard for the mayor position, I dont think its a case of butthurt causing the decline in interest. I can definitely attribute this behaviour to scum play. But, before outright declaring him scum, I would like his take of what I noticed. Quite honestly I can understand why you think I am scum. The problem I am finding, in my readthrough of filters, I am feeling really disconnected with the thread, due to initial missing the onset of the game. If you have anything you want my opinion or read on you can ask me. I just aren't finding relevant topics for me to post on. Please ask away. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On January 24 2013 12:48 Mocsta wrote: Agreed.. my main rational is.. if we lynch a BG and he is scum... scum still have 2KP (due to rounding up) If we lynch a BG and he is town.. scum still 2 KP and mayor/sheriff have no protection. (assuming 1 bg = town) The risk isnt worth it. if we lynch a BG and he is scum I will offensively jail :3 | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9389 Posts
On January 24 2013 14:11 Oatsmaster wrote: Mocsta, can you succinctly tell me what makes me scum? Rather than just mentioning it every other post. Since you asked nicely, why not. Positives Post 1 You could have taken more advantage of my direct mis-read of your quote.. Prob more of a town tell than scum, but, either alignment could have taken the stance you did. I will consider this more towny though. Negatives (Post 1) (1) He has really turned DOWN the [intentional]aggression. and really turned UP the [emotional] aggressoin. which is odd.. a null tell overall though (but with (2) and (3) gives me concern) (2) Most of his responses are when pressured, and when he does try to pressure the questions are lacking in quality.. having just played a game with Oats as town, I can see a stark contrast (we also MAJORLY butted heads that game) (3) He keeps asking others for scum reads, but is not providing his own. (Post 2) (1) FT references your change in behaviour from classic town oats. I.E. Super aggressive as town and suddenly this game super defensive. This aligns with my read from Negative - Post 1. Please note originally I attributed this behaviour shift due to "vet syndrome" but you yourself have commented you feel confident, so the point I raised to defend you is moot. (Post 3) If I was going to sum up your town play.. its very similar to what Vivax is doing this game.. Just throwing accusations around freely. You are scumhunting in your own way, but it is also wild and reckless. This post here is critical and it points out your lie in regards to being "shy" - you did retract this later and added that you were indeed confident.. if you are indeed confident then your approach this game directly conflicts with your town game of being "balls to the wall" In a nutshell,
I think this all equates to a game style that was premeditated due to role alignment => SCUM. | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9389 Posts
On January 24 2013 14:45 BroodKingEXE wrote: Quite honestly I can understand why you think I am scum. The problem I am finding, in my readthrough of filters, I am feeling really disconnected with the thread, due to initial missing the onset of the game. If you have anything you want my opinion or read on you can ask me. I just aren't finding relevant topics for me to post on. Please ask away. OK. Vivax filter. His last 2 to 3 pages, he created a shit-storm of accusations. (i.e. last 12 to 16 hrs of play) Do you think he is disrupting the play intentionally? If so, is it scum motivated? | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9389 Posts
On January 24 2013 14:48 Toadesstern wrote: if we lynch a BG and he is scum I will offensively jail :3 hhhmmmmm.. that makes things very interesting. do you have a stronger read than Oats currently? Do you think it is worth the risk? | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
Meta read in my 5th game. WHO KNEW? | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9389 Posts
On January 24 2013 14:58 Oatsmaster wrote: So basically it is a meta read and not cause I am scummy in this game. Right. Meta read in my 5th game. WHO KNEW? Take it however you want. You have a very strong (try too hard to be dominant) personality. I think your a perfect candidate for a meta-read; as your strength of character is expressed very vividly. We were also arguing intimately for at least 10-12hrs last game, so I am more than aware of what I can expect from a town Oatsmaster. I was pushing your buttons regardless of whether you want to admit it. Either way, regardless of meta, you have not done much to contribute to the scum hunt. Fair enough you have had to respond to defenses, but you have still gone out of your way to throw jabs here and there. This behaviour just really feels forced to me. Considering I have picked up on the lack of scum hunting.. who is your current scum read? | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9389 Posts
On January 24 2013 14:58 Oatsmaster wrote: So basically it is a meta read and not cause I am scummy in this game. Right. Meta read in my 5th game. WHO KNEW? P.S. I was getting meta'd in my 2nd game by... newbies This is hardly a revolution. We playing with the big boys.. this is part of what they do. Deal with it. | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
Stutters also, but what little activity he is doing is kinda changing my mind, if its not consistant soon though, he is scum I was getting meta'd in my 2nd game by... newbies I meant the meta thing as not being very accurate, not that it was high-level play | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9389 Posts
What did you think of my read of gonzaw play? I felt really conflicted, perhaps you can shed some light. (its at top of page98) | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
[06:58:03] Erik: for all I care if he's scum and that means both palmar and I survive becase they don't want to "out" oats that's fine with me So I really don't see a reason to risk lynching oats today. Yes he's really scummy but more importantly he's a problem that will solve itself sooner or later. Either mafia shoots him because they want to get Palmar / me OR they shoot Palmar / me in which case oats isn't "probably mafia" but confirmed mafia OR they don't shoot Palmar / me which is perfectly fine with me to be honest. So I'd say we lynch someone else. For me that either means lynching into one of Annul / Gonzaw / Chez or lynching BKE. I myself would like BKE the most right now but I'm not done catching up. Mostly because I haven't figured out the Annul / Gonzaw / Chez triangle and while a 1/3 chance to hit mafia is still decent I think we'll get a better read on that one soon enough as well. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
I don't actually care or know if it's really Palmar :p And I'll be gone for now. Hungry. | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
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BroodKingEXE
United States829 Posts
On January 24 2013 14:54 Mocsta wrote: OK. Vivax filter. His last 2 to 3 pages, he created a shit-storm of accusations. (i.e. last 12 to 16 hrs of play) Do you think he is disrupting the play intentionally? If so, is it scum motivated? I'd say scum motivated disruption. The anger is the first thing I notice about his play over the last few hours, there was an unexpected jump in between these two posts+ Show Spoiler + On January 24 2013 04:10 Vivax wrote: Scum Yamato, british empire mm + Show Spoiler + On January 08 2013 11:41 yamato77 wrote: Excuse me for having other things to do in my life besides prove to town that you are scum. Are you going to do anything today besides defend yourself? Poorly,I might add. I bring up plenty of points besides just the useful discussion point. You cannot deny it looks like straight up post-hoc rationale. You didn't intend to look scummy with your shit but now that you do and you realize people see it that way you're making up bullshit excuses for your shit play. I'm dine with reading your useless posts. It is in town's best interest to see you hang. ##Vote: Mr Cheesecake On January 08 2013 07:48 yamato77 wrote: Is your only response to my suspicion of you "lol"? Let's say I vote you tomorrow with case attached, are you going to just lol that too? Fucking useless. On January 06 2013 19:02 yamato77 wrote: Xatalos what the fuck is that post? How is Shiao voting for a lurker who eventually got replaced scummy? He wants him to be more active, and somehow that's scum motivated? His stances are not weak. He's been putting pressure on me since he made the post, and he wants to do so to you. It's not like he's just saying shit to say it. And then this gem "I guess it's about time to finally cast a vote" Or in other words: "I'm going to put this riiiiight here. Hopefully town doesn't think I'm scummy for this!" That shit is weak, bro. Town Yamato + Show Spoiler + On December 21 2012 06:07 yamato77 wrote: I told you why I'm voting for you and your responses didn't help anything. I have plenty of reason. Other people may have read this and thought the same things. Why is sheeping people with good reads a bad thing anyway? On December 21 2012 06:11 yamato77 wrote: Convince me on Vivax then. If he's so scummy make an updated case with more content. All you've done is post your read and then ask everyone else what they thought of your read. That doesn't feel like scum hunting to me. On December 21 2012 06:19 yamato77 wrote: The differ pence is focus. You keep saying Vivax is scum but you've spent a lot more time discrediting Palmer than pushing your read on Vivax. You are not scum hunting. You are throwing shit at a town player. This is my point. I'm not being hypocritical because my focus is squarely set on you. You're scum, I'm voting for you, and I'm pushing my read and defending the case. You are doing none of these things. Wiggles was really mafia in this game when yamato was talking to him. As you see, two different styles of talking to his scumreads. But check his meta for yourself guys. On January 24 2013 04:11 Vivax wrote: Sorry yamato, you still have to improve as scum lol. But I see you're putting a lot of effort into this game, so I feel a bit bad for you. Personal Attacks: On January 24 2013 06:38 Vivax wrote: Oats is a mislynch, don't do it. You're so easily to influence Bugs, scum just plays their games with you. Insinuating he is hiding something: On January 24 2013 07:53 Vivax wrote: Hey FT, who is masoning you? Is there a reason you aren't outing it? | ||
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BroodKingEXE
United States829 Posts
On January 24 2013 15:13 Toadesstern wrote: btw my take on oats right now: So I really don't see a reason to risk lynching oats today. Yes he's really scummy but more importantly he's a problem that will solve itself sooner or later. Either mafia shoots him because they want to get Palmar / me OR they shoot Palmar / me in which case oats isn't "probably mafia" but confirmed mafia OR they don't shoot Palmar / me which is perfectly fine with me to be honest. So I'd say we lynch someone else. For me that either means lynching into one of Annul / Gonzaw / Chez or lynching BKE. I myself would like BKE the most right now but I'm not done catching up. Mostly because I haven't figured out the Annul / Gonzaw / Chez triangle and while a 1/3 chance to hit mafia is still decent I think we'll get a better read on that one soon enough as well. What is the Annul/Gonzaw/Chez triangle? Is it based on setup speculation, or the general likelihood that one vet is scum? | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
Upon closer inspection of his town games listed, and a couple of his scum games, I found that his posting style of convincing someone of their scumminess is a trait of his town games. I only looked a little in the scum ones and I didn't see it I didn't see anything in terms of him defending himself against a scumread's accusations in either That would leave me wanting to lynch Gonzaw based on 1) His running for mayor (scum having to have someone run) 2) Him trying to convince 5touch to lynch oats over prplhz I'm still waiting on an answer over whether the mayor/sheriff can be killed in the same night as a bodyguard. If so, then I agree with not lynching Oats. If the mayor/sheriff can't be killed on the same night, we should take that into consideration of lynching oats | ||
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