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I don't read him as town but I don't really read him as scum either really, similarly to annul atm. I have better targets. I'm interested in BKE and Chez mostly.
I feel like Gonzaw, Oats, and annul are all really coinflippy lynches. I don't think the arguments to call them scum are all that strong, and there are reasons to consider them all town too but none of them are strong either.
On the other hand both Chez and BKE fit what I would expect from scum this game. BKE avoided modkill, which is pretty huge. He avoided the modkill and he is continuing to actively lurk. At least when he is town he looks bad and takes lynch attention but he doesn't lurk this hard. He responds to accusations and instead of dealing with them by disappearing and hoping the suspicion fades. That's what bad scum do, and I'm pretty confident if BKE rolled scum that's what he'd play like.
Chezinu on the other hand has two pluses to him, which are both relatively minor, and then a whole bunch of stuff that really does not make sense from a town perspective. I'll go over the pluses first, I guess:
He supported the prplhz lynch.
He was apparently active in mason-land and seems to have a valid excuse for his thread inactivity.
However, what doesn't make sense at all is why he ran for mayor d1, why he did not support electing myself or FT despite us wanting to kill prplhz and having a better chance of being elected than him, why he answered yes to this:
On January 24 2013 08:39 Chezinu wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 05:30 DearestSnot wrote:
Vivax, I'm going to put this nicely:
you are being a moron.
Go take a break from the thread if you are town and come back when your head isn't so full of shit.
Chezinu:
Why did you swap your vote from yourself to Austin, to gonzaw with less than a minute remaining in day 1? It seems like you wanted to get them elected over Toad, is that right? Yup
and why he still has no reads.
He hasn't even commented on the lynch today and he had no real comment on it yesterday either, other than saying he was fine with prplhz. He even acknowledged BKE's last minute vote, but didn't express any sort of suspicion of it. He has had no real impact on the game at all, and that is incredibly strange from a (trolly) town Chezinu. Chezinu might troll as town, but he at least provides reads, no matter how cryptic. He has not done that this game.
Also on a somewhat related note, he has received next to no suspicion all game. prplhz and Chez attacked each other but beyond that I don't recall anyone calling out Chezinu for trolling or anything of the sort. That's pretty strange, given that he's usually mafia bait.
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Bugs, one last try please:
I really liked your meta guessing games in past games, so I guess you're going to find interesting reading yamato based on his meta. He's newb as scum.
Thanks for putting the effort in though.
There's not enough info on BKE to push him reliably. Killing him is like a vig shot. That is coinflippy.
Same as Chez until we get information from this mason mess.
Let's watch this town mislynch Oats for today I guess.
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On January 24 2013 10:39 debears wrote:
Upon learning of my bodyguard status as town, I realized one thing immediately:
I only have this lynch left in the game
Thus, I will very very likely be killed tonight.
So, debears, why the sudden spike in activity?
Because I have one more lynch I can help town with in this game
Now, look at Oatsmaster's posting. What has his psychological mindset been since learning of being bodyguard?
Nothing. No urgency. No realization that he will be nked soon. No great effort to help town out one last day
Why? I think it's because he's scum.
1) He's focusing on defending himself instead of giving reads
2) If he was town, he would realize that he would die in the night, and that giving reads is priority over defending yourself
3) Most of the town has agreed that lynching into the bodyguards isn't a great strategy since we will either 1. die or 2. be found out once the mayor dies. Thus, it would only take real effort in a focused manner to ward off his lynch
Are you kidding me.
Im gonna summarize Debears filter after day 1.
NK speculation
Posts scummy stuff about Gonzaw.
Posts casual 1 liners
Justifies double lynch
and nothing much else besides calling Vivax bad.
How is this urgency? You have barely 3/4 page of useful filter.
My psychological mindset on being bodyguard has not changed because I think that its futile to guess scum's nk's. If I die tmr
at least I didnt waste town's lynch and soaked up a kp.
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Also debears, this DOES NOT explain why your day 1 was the epitome of a lurker/newbie scum who doesnt want to post.
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ok, here's the thing.
I hesitated earlier to use this argument, but I think it's strong. First suppose Oats is scum.
Because he's a BG, we know that if he's alive and FT or Toad die then Oats is outted. Thus at any point in the game we can safely lynch Oats if FT or Toad die. We only have a problem if we lynch a multitude of townies while FT and Toad survive and get into a multiple scum lylo situation. I don't see that as being very likely. If Oats is scum, mafia have to sacrifice one of their own in order to kill Toad or FT. As long as FT/Toad are alive we have a massive advantage. We have a jailer who can stop mafia KP in two different ways and a triple voter who is almost certainly town.
If Oats is town, and we lynch him, then tonight debears and FT or Toad will be dead, almost certainly. We basically simply shoot ourselves in the foot for no gain.
Even if Oats is mafia, we don't gain much by lynching him. He's a BG, if scum want to win the game in lylo they have to at some point out Oats. They can't feasibly win at lylo with FT alive because FT has 3 votes.
So, either Oats is mafia and we force mafia to out him in order to kill two of our best townies, or Oats is town and we leave FT and Toad protected until oats/debears get shot. The mafia team in either position is basically fucked as long as we can catch the remaining members.
So why focus on Oats? I don't see the rationale behind this right now.
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On January 23 2013 13:01 Oatsmaster wrote:
Debears, what prompted the change in activity? Was it because day 1 you had no chance of getting lynched and upon receipt of the role of bodyguard, scared you into contributing? Or something else?
So you're a bodyguard, yet your only mention of bodyguard is this post
You never even bothered to participate in the bodyguard discussion.
That's odd
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On January 24 2013 10:52 Oatsmaster wrote:
Also debears, this DOES NOT explain why your day 1 was the epitome of a lurker/newbie scum who doesnt want to post.
I explained this last game and earlier this game to djo. Unfortunately, you don't read
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On January 24 2013 10:52 DearestSnot wrote:
ok, here's the thing.
I hesitated earlier to use this argument, but I think it's strong. First suppose Oats is scum.
Because he's a BG, we know that if he's alive and FT or Toad die then Oats is outted. Thus at any point in the game we can safely lynch Oats if FT or Toad die. We only have a problem if we lynch a multitude of townies while FT and Toad survive and get into a multiple scum lylo situation. I don't see that as being very likely. If Oats is scum, mafia have to sacrifice one of their own in order to kill Toad or FT. As long as FT/Toad are alive we have a massive advantage. We have a jailer who can stop mafia KP in two different ways and a triple voter who is almost certainly town.
If Oats is town, and we lynch him, then tonight debears and FT or Toad will be dead, almost certainly. We basically simply shoot ourselves in the foot for no gain.
Even if Oats is mafia, we don't gain much by lynching him. He's a BG, if scum want to win the game in lylo they have to at some point out Oats. They can't feasibly win at lylo with FT alive because FT has 3 votes.
So, either Oats is mafia and we force mafia to out him in order to kill two of our best townies, or Oats is town and we leave FT and Toad protected until oats/debears get shot. The mafia team in either position is basically fucked as long as we can catch the remaining members.
So why focus on Oats? I don't see the rationale behind this right now.
Mafia can't target the mayor and sheriff until the night after all town bodyguards are dead correct?>
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You protect the elected roles. After the election concludes, two Bodyguards are randomly chosen from amongst the pool of Townies. Before Townies are randomly selected as bodyguards though, Mafia may elect to substitute any of their members in for Bodyguards. That means there may be 0, 1, or 2 Mafia acting as Bodyguards instead of townspeople. The town will not know who is selected as bodyguards, but the elected roles will. As long as you (the bodyguards) remain alive, elected roles cannot be killed during the night. However, Mafia bodyguards do not protect town-aligned elected roles! This means that if there are no town-aligned bodyguards left, town-aligned elected roles are in danger of death during the night phase. Town-aligned bodyguards chosen from the pool of Townies will show up as Bodyguards to role checks, and Mafia-aligned bodyguards will show up as Bodyguards regardless of any other powers they might possess.
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On January 24 2013 10:39 DearestSnot wrote:
Also on a somewhat related note, he has received next to no suspicion all game. prplhz and Chez attacked each other but beyond that I don't recall anyone calling out Chezinu for trolling or anything of the sort. That's pretty strange, given that he's usually mafia bait.
On January 21 2013 08:08 Mocsta wrote:
I agree on chezinu. He needs to input more to the thread. I was expecting a lot more from him considering the reputation and kneepad job debears gave.
On January 23 2013 17:38 Mocsta wrote:
Toad/WBG
But to promote some discussion, what do you make of the (lack of) activity from Chezinu?
I know that is has been discussed as *very* unreadable, but we are now ~8hrs into Day2, and he is on a 2page filter. Is that normal for him? Especially considering he campaigned for mayor?
LOl, was even addressed to you 
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As far as I'm aware I have not been replaced yet, I apologize to everyone in this game.
Had some irl trouble and I'm currently not willing to read 70 pages of mafia so I hope I get replaced soon. If I somehow missed it... errr, sorry for that too.
Have fun all.
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Lynching Chez is not coinflippy at all, and actually lynching him might be even better than lynching BKE. It's much better than Oats, for sure.
His inactivity excuse explains his inactivity, but it certainly doesn't explain his lack of reads or his change in demeanor since LVII. In the previous game he trolled and was cryptic, but he put in a lot of effort into actually putting forth his opinions on players. He made posts like this:
On January 03 2013 16:39 Chezinu wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2013 16:19 thrawn2112 wrote:
the only person in the thread i don't have any concerns about is grush, go figure
chezinu a way better policy lynch than grush Don't you know the alignment statistics for players who play with Chezinu for the first time and tries to get him lynched? It's like almost 100%. This trend was confirmed by Chezinu himself the after blazinghand flipped mafia. This does not put you into a good position at all. I am a behavior reaction reader. I can't just sit back and figure most people roles. I have to poke them first, get a reaction, then diagnose their role. However, doing this causes me to have to act somewhat scummy...which is not bad at all. For it is not the mafia I fear, but the town. Mafia likes me as a safety net and I like being that safety net. mafia should know that you should keep Chezinu around for a while for the laughs and safety. You just got to kill me before I create my lists. But even then, do you think Chezinu can even convince the town? Conclusion, mafia should not lynch Chezinu. Town should not either, for Chezinu can make good list. For Everyone, Chezinu should not be lynch because he can provide you with entertainment. So thraw, pointing at me was a bad mistake. I would however like to give you props for scumhunting Y-man. Mafia Beware, The Brown Brotherhood is being founded. Join us or we will have to join you....in death
Look at how he talks: he's actually talking about game-relevant material and he's actually calling someone out for suspecting him and then giving him props in the same sentence for scumhunting.
He also puts forth lots of effort in LVIII into being understood, something I'm not seeing here. I don't think the playerbase has changed all that much--if he thought his audience couldn't understand him in LVIII I don't see why he would feel any different here.
Secondly, look at his tone and attitude in LVIII, his willingness to put forth opinions about other players, even if he thinks they are merely town and should be sheeped:
On January 05 2013 05:03 Chezinu wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 04:59 Promethelax wrote:
Hey chez, I haven't had time to translate your posts into English. Wanna help? I agreed with the majority of what Palmar says. If he and Iamperfection are both mafia, I think they should both live for the laughs and for taking great efforts to fake a tremendous feat! Either way, Palmar is awesome!
On January 05 2013 08:04 Chezinu wrote:
Well, this was not a marvelous lynch, but quite the opposite. I am disappointed that people did not follow the Brown. Now we know what happens when one opposes the Brown. Fortunately, the faculty only murdered one of our fellow classmates. I would like to thank SloOsh for organizing the lynching. Now that the scribe is dead, we will need someone else to step up and take his duties.
On January 06 2013 04:19 Chezinu wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2013 16:19 thrawn2112 wrote:
the only person in the thread i don't have any concerns about is grush, go figure
chezinu a way better policy lynch than grush Sometimes the color of the individual does not matter. If one poses a threat to the Brown Brotherhood. They must be dealt with...
Now, what has he done this game?
Not much. Look:
This is about the only thing I could find that Chezinu has said all game that was close to calling people out, outside of his prplhz business.
On January 22 2013 07:05 Chezinu wrote:
you know who is awesome? Prplhz, Clarity_nl, mocsta, and Broodkingexe! The are like the best players ever. They are sooo cooll that if they vote for me, I would to them. You know why? Cause Chezinu listens to the people that vote for him. He would be willing to let his people vote for who he should lynch. They could simply vote in the thread by typing #lynch (name). Chezinu would listen. Vote Chezinu to be heard. If you don't, Chez may still listen to you - but you just won't be close enough to be heard clearly!
That response had to be asked for, he wasn't upfront about it. I'm certain had he never been asked, that post would never have been made. That's not true in LVIII: in LVIII he put forth reads without even being prompted for them in the first place.
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What is there to say about being a bodyguard? I have no powers to speculate about, and nothing I can do to avoid getting nk'ed except protects.
So sorry to hear that Clarity, hope everything is ok.
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On January 24 2013 10:56 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 10:52 DearestSnot wrote:
ok, here's the thing.
I hesitated earlier to use this argument, but I think it's strong. First suppose Oats is scum.
Because he's a BG, we know that if he's alive and FT or Toad die then Oats is outted. Thus at any point in the game we can safely lynch Oats if FT or Toad die. We only have a problem if we lynch a multitude of townies while FT and Toad survive and get into a multiple scum lylo situation. I don't see that as being very likely. If Oats is scum, mafia have to sacrifice one of their own in order to kill Toad or FT. As long as FT/Toad are alive we have a massive advantage. We have a jailer who can stop mafia KP in two different ways and a triple voter who is almost certainly town.
If Oats is town, and we lynch him, then tonight debears and FT or Toad will be dead, almost certainly. We basically simply shoot ourselves in the foot for no gain.
Even if Oats is mafia, we don't gain much by lynching him. He's a BG, if scum want to win the game in lylo they have to at some point out Oats. They can't feasibly win at lylo with FT alive because FT has 3 votes.
So, either Oats is mafia and we force mafia to out him in order to kill two of our best townies, or Oats is town and we leave FT and Toad protected until oats/debears get shot. The mafia team in either position is basically fucked as long as we can catch the remaining members.
So why focus on Oats? I don't see the rationale behind this right now. Mafia can't target the mayor and sheriff until the night after all town bodyguards are dead correct?>
I don't know how it works, actually. I simply assumed that if the BGs are dead then you can shoot the mayor/sheriff (even on the same night)
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On January 24 2013 11:05 DearestSnot wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 10:56 debears wrote:On January 24 2013 10:52 DearestSnot wrote:
So, either Oats is mafia and we force mafia to out him in order to kill two of our best townies, or Oats is town and we leave FT and Toad protected until oats/debears get shot. The mafia team in either position is basically fucked as long as we can catch the remaining members.
So why focus on Oats? I don't see the rationale behind this right now. Mafia can't target the mayor and sheriff until the night after all town bodyguards are dead correct?> I don't know how it works, actually. I simply assumed that if the BGs are dead then you can shoot the mayor/sheriff (even on the same night)
Yeah, I figured if 1 BG is scum.. mafia need 1 Kp on the town bg, and then can use remaining KP on mayor or sheriff during the same night cycle.
Either way this Day2 lynch is 1 vote.. so i see the logic in not touching the bodyguards.. if there is ony 1 town BG, and we lynch him my accident.. there is no more protection... So even though Oats is my top read, the associated risk is too high.
I think best plan is to find an alternative target, whether Annul, BKE etc etc and reduce the mafia to 3 ppl.. they still will have 2 KP tonight.. BUT!!... if we lynch scum with the double vote Day3, we drop their Night 3 KP to 1... so can afford to use a double vote on a BG (i.e. Oats)
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FT you agree with me that you would favor a one for one trade with mafia?
If Oats is scum, in order to kill you, they would have to accept a 1 for 1 trade. At best for them maybe it's a 1 for 2 or even 1 for 3 trade, and even those are favorable for us.
If you agree with me on this then there's no real reason to lynch Oats until either
a.) you die
or
b.) we have literally no better choice.
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To Vivax, regarding Oats:
The first issue raised with oats, I believe, was his unnecessary defense of JX. I didn't find this particularly convincing, but it made me a bit suspicious. He was still rather null imo, but my attention was drawn. After that, it kind of steadily increased in scumminess with each thing FT mentioned. Oats bending peoples' words for unknown reasons, showing evidence of not having read the thread, possible voting reasoning contradictions (stutters vs prplhz). I somewhat dismissed most of it, because I could see myself doing these things accidentally as town (in fact, I later felt like I kind of unnecessarily defended JX myself). I also, generally speaking, tend to give the benefit of the doubt. So whenever someone raises a point, I'll kind of naturally give more weight to the defense. However, when I couple the BOTD with the fact that my feelings regarding oats kept inching towards scum, the evidence for scum outweighs the BOTD I always feel.
On January 24 2013 06:51 FiveTouch wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 06:37 DearestSnot wrote:
well if we're lynching Oats then I'm not going to oppose it. I'm probably the only player who believes that he's town, so I'm willing to just let him die.
There was a time not so long ago that I would probably have defended him from the lynch but it's just not worth it :p The problem with Oats is that he just lies or contradicts himself repeatedly. I can't reconcile it with him being town at all. Here's me pressuring him in obviously quite a serious manner: Show nested quote +On January 23 2013 23:48 FiveTouch wrote:On January 23 2013 23:47 Oatsmaster wrote:lol Still under the spell of returning to mafia :D I only played the game for 72 hours so it barely counts  What counts is that you were immediately suspicious of Mocsta in the game you just finished playing, and in general you were suspicious of many players Day 1. Which is the complete opposite of your attitude this game. He defends himself from what I said: Show nested quote +On January 23 2013 23:51 Oatsmaster wrote:More players/better players. I can honestly say I thought that in the Newbie game I would be one of the town leaders Here, I shy.  So the reason that he's not suspicious of players this game, completely unlike his most recent game, is that he's shy, he's taking a backseat. Except he's now asserting he's actually more confident: Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 00:40 Oatsmaster wrote:
Mocsta,
I have become more confident to pressure people.
Uhuh, so other than the start of the game, which was poor play which I already addressed,
Wouldnt you say im more confident than in my Chrono game? And that him being shy is a joke: Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 00:50 Oatsmaster wrote:
Cant a guy try to make a joke and be cute about it? Apparently not.
Anyway, gonna sleep now.
Vivax, please think before you post. So him being shy is a joke. So, back to my original, valid point - why is Oatsmaster not suspicious of people this game and pointing fingers and making cases? It can't be because he's shy, because that was a joke. But then, in fact, there's no answer for it at all and the point stands. His whole play this game is marred by contradictions such as these, and his meta heavily supports him being mafia.
This is the post that finally significantly convinced me, and made me put my thoughts down in writing. It's an inconsistency that I believe indicates a scum trying to piece together the lies he was required to make to account for his previous scummy play. It's kind of a grand conclusion that wraps everything up with a nice little red bow.
All of that being said, I think that dearestsnot raises a good point. It might be best to let oats live in any case, if we have a better (or even possibly slightly worse) scum read to go off of. On that note, I'm going to take a closer look at gonzaw, chenizu, and broodking. At the moment, my read of gonzaw is still the same as before (was town most of d1, haven't paid much attention since), chenizu is an enigma, and I'd kind of like to know more from the people he's actually spent time with throughout the game (as he doesn't seem to have spent as much time in the main thread as apparently expected), and broodking is slightly scummy simply by merit of his relative absence. Of the three, I would be most willing to vote for BKE at the moment.
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WBG
who would you prefer I have a look into.
BKE or Gonzaw?
Annual seems to have points for/points against, so there seems to be a hesitance in general.
P.S. The shit-flinging one-track tunnel nature of Vivax over the past 24hrs.. that how I associate Oatsmaster play when he is town. He was doing the same thing.. just hitting up anyone that had an opposite thought.. Very stark contrast now... but yes i agree with the BG rational and think we should leave him today.
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On January 24 2013 11:29 Mocsta wrote:
WBG
who would you prefer I have a look into.
BKE or Gonzaw?
Annual seems to have points for/points against, so there seems to be a hesitance in general.
P.S. The shit-flinging one-track tunnel nature of Vivax over the past 24hrs.. that how I associate Oatsmaster play when he is town. He was doing the same thing.. just hitting up anyone that had an opposite thought.. Very stark contrast now... but yes i agree with the BG rational and think we should leave him today.
do both, you lazy biatch :p
no really though, BKE's filter is all of like five lines.
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So, this is late, but I read over Gonzaw's stuff today and some interactions with Gonzaw. Couple major takeaways.
Gonzaw still feels town. The biggest thing that stuck out to me was his return to the thread. Spoilered with commentary: + Show Spoiler +Some votes have built up against Gonzaw. There are people who think that Gonzaw is scummy (vivax, oats, and debears at least) as well as a repeated thought that there's likely scum between annul/Gonzaw based on vet status and scum having a mayor candidate). So the context of this exchange is that Gonzaw is under a bit of in-game pressure, as well as a bit of setup-speculation-related pressure. At 4:07 TL time, Gonzaw posts: On January 24 2013 04:07 gonzaw wrote:
Well I'm here, but I'm still catching up on the thread.
I am not sure why I'm suddenly discussed as D2 lynch today for no reason (what I managed to skim), but I won't be lynched today if town doesn't derp. Vivax has been going on and on about yamato - + Show Spoiler +On January 24 2013 04:10 Vivax wrote:Scum Yamato, british empire mm+ Show Spoiler +On January 08 2013 11:41 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2013 11:27 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On January 08 2013 11:19 yamato77 wrote:CC's defense of his admittedly scummy okay this game is this: On January 08 2013 05:17 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On January 08 2013 05:04 Hapahauli wrote:On January 08 2013 04:59 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On January 08 2013 04:31 Hapahauli wrote:
In school right now - interested to hear a reply to dp's case, as well as scumreads In terms of DP's case.. It's alright. He's wrong, but I'm pretty scummy and much of the argument does hold water. However, I'm fairly disinterested with the pressure on me right now. I don't think I'll be lynched tomorrow, and I won't sit here and waste time deflecting every point brought against me. We can all settle on the fact that I'm super scummy right now, and that's fine with me. I would like you to be concerned, because I'm interested in hearing you defend what looks like a reasonable case against you. His main point is that I just "heap shit on weak players". I don't know how you'd like me to defend that, because it's true. Some people need shit heaped on them to start doing stuff. Most of it is based on my shitty stream post, which, as all indicates, heaps shit on players. I heap some shit here and there, it's all fine. I want answers. And if you have to dig your way out that's perfectly fine with me. The thread has been pathetically inactive for how long the game has been going. If I have to make myself seem scummy to generate some sort of response, well here we have it. Problem is, I haven't heard from players that are really concerning like SP or Yamato. He says he has to be scummy because its the only way to move the thread forward. Again, how is this indicative of a town mindset? If he's town, why does he want to intentionally look scummy so that town wastes time and effort looking at him? No, he's much more likely to be scum baiting town into lynching him while thinking they won't because "scum wouldn't look so scummy". Furthermore, how is his play supposed to generate useful discussion? This whole post looks like post-hoc rationalization, a trademark of scum behavior. If he wanted to move the thread forward meaningfully, why didn't he do so by actually making substantiated cases on his reads with evidence to back up his cutesy one-liners? Because he's full of shit and he knows it. It took you an hour to dig up that? I am disappoint. If you really thought I was scum you would have had that in 10 minutes tops. Oh, and you seemed to have missed the part where I said I wasn't intentionally looking scummy, it was just a bi-product of my shenanigans to get answers. You know, the post after that in my filter. Try harder please, Yamato. Why am I scummy? This is just an extension of the "You aren't promoting useful discussion" argument. Excuse me for having other things to do in my life besides prove to town that you are scum. Are you going to do anything today besides defend yourself? Poorly,I might add. I bring up plenty of points besides just the useful discussion point. You cannot deny it looks like straight up post-hoc rationale. You didn't intend to look scummy with your shit but now that you do and you realize people see it that way you're making up bullshit excuses for your shit play. I'm dine with reading your useless posts. It is in town's best interest to see you hang. ##Vote: Mr Cheesecake On January 08 2013 07:48 yamato77 wrote:Is your only response to my suspicion of you "lol"? Let's say I vote you tomorrow with case attached, are you going to just lol that too? Fucking useless. On January 06 2013 19:02 yamato77 wrote:
Xatalos what the fuck is that post?
How is Shiao voting for a lurker who eventually got replaced scummy? He wants him to be more active, and somehow that's scum motivated?
His stances are not weak. He's been putting pressure on me since he made the post, and he wants to do so to you. It's not like he's just saying shit to say it.
And then this gem
"I guess it's about time to finally cast a vote"
Or in other words:
"I'm going to put this riiiiight here. Hopefully town doesn't think I'm scummy for this!"
That shit is weak, bro. On December 21 2012 06:07 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2012 06:06 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Of course I'm going to shit on the people voting for me, because I'm town and most of them are lacking justification or are just voting for idiotic reasons. It's pretty frustrating to have to argue against your lynch when half the justification behind it is because Palmar said so. I told you why I'm voting for you and your responses didn't help anything. I have plenty of reason. Other people may have read this and thought the same things. Why is sheeping people with good reads a bad thing anyway? On December 21 2012 06:11 yamato77 wrote:
Convince me on Vivax then. If he's so scummy make an updated case with more content. All you've done is post your read and then ask everyone else what they thought of your read. That doesn't feel like scum hunting to me. On December 21 2012 06:19 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2012 06:10 Mr. Wiggles wrote:On December 21 2012 06:06 yamato77 wrote:On December 21 2012 06:02 Mr. Wiggles wrote:On December 21 2012 05:57 yamato77 wrote:
Also if you're going to pick a target to counter wagon with your "This is who I would kill tomorrow when I flip town" idea, you really shouldn't pick someone like Palmar. I'm far more likely to believe him today than you. That being said, if you somehow flip town I will certainly kill Palomar tomorrow.
But if you want to not get lynched today you need to do better than that. Vivax was a good start but you aren't convincing enough with this "LOOK AT MY VIVAX POST GUYS HE'S TOTES SCUM" and then pointing your finger at Palmar immediately afterward. Are you dumb, or do you just not read? That wasn't my idea, that was Toad asking me a question and me answering. Also, you're contradicting yourself. Toad asked me when I flipped town who town should kill tomorrow. I said Palmar. You just called me out for saying that, and then you said that when I flip town, you'll kill Palmar tomorrow. What the hell? I have not said once that we need to lynch Palmar today, you guys are acting fucking stupid. So then you're just calling Palmar suspicious all the time just for shits and giggles? Because if you don't want to vote for him then that means you're just blowing hot air which is exactly what I've said you were doing. Holy. Shit. I'm calling him suspicious because I think he's fucking suspicious. I said that if he keeps being suspicious, we lynch him. It's other people who keep bringing that point up and asking me to elaborate on it. Are you not allowed to think people are suspicious without voting for them? I mean, you're voting for me, but you said WBG is scum too, but you're not voting for WBG right now, so obviously you must be full of crap, right? The differ pence is focus. You keep saying Vivax is scum but you've spent a lot more time discrediting Palmer than pushing your read on Vivax. You are not scum hunting. You are throwing shit at a town player. This is my point. I'm not being hypocritical because my focus is squarely set on you. You're scum, I'm voting for you, and I'm pushing my read and defending the case. You are doing none of these things. Wiggles was really mafia in this game when yamato was talking to him. As you see, two different styles of talking to his scumreads. But check his meta for yourself guys. and asks Gonzaw about Gonzaw's feelings on Vivax's reads - On January 24 2013 04:18 Vivax wrote:
Hey gonzaw, what do you think about my current scumreads? On January 24 2013 04:23 Vivax wrote:
Doesn't need that much time to read the little bit I wrote about yamato right? Why don't you do a quickie on that? While Vivax is questioning him, Gonzaw drops his first real return post at 4:20 TL time, a response to Oats - + Show Spoiler +On January 24 2013 04:20 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2013 10:47 Oatsmaster wrote:
Gonzaw,
Not following up on questions and scumreads makes you scum because you just ask those questions for the sake of asking questions and not to find scum I asked those questions to get info from people, which they did (I think, I don't remember much), and to get a better read on Stutters/Clarity if people had anything valuable to add. Show nested quote +You better actually read my filter though. "Never questions Vivax at all"....? How is this either true, or relevant?
I mentioned later Vivax's "all or nothing" play seemed more likely to be town, so it was better to just ignore all the shit he was saying and tell him to stop it.
Do you understand the meaning of questioning? It means to directly ask someone something. Mentioning that he is a townread without following up on your point seems scummy because it looks like you are just making conversation and following the flow of the thread. Why did you expect me to "question" Vivax? Why Vivax out of everybody? I don't see how this is relevant at all. Show nested quote +Oatsmaster:
Testing the waters on whether he should push a stutters or clarity lynch.
Gonzaw:
How does that make sense in a mayor election D1? :/
Because people will also vote for the mayor because they agree with the lynch that the mayor pushes, so if the thread generally thinks that stutters or clarity is scum, you can push their lynch as part of your campaign. It obviously doesn't work that way, if I was mayor I could lynch whoever the fuck I want, whether people "agree" with it or not. If I was just "testing the waters" to "gain support", then it doesn't work that way either. You don't elect a mayor just because he's pressuring someone you agree is pressuring. And whether this works this way or not, how do you suddenly conclude this is what I did as, in your mind, scum mayor? This is all confirmation bias from your part, "ah, if gonzaw was a scum mayor, then he could have been 'testing the waters' with what he was posting!". Show nested quote +Overall, it seems like Gonzaw thinks that im bad, OMGUS, and just discredits my case that way. Wow, this misses the point so much it hurts. Oats, you out of nowhere said "There is mafia in the mayor candidates!", randomly chose me, and started using heavy confirmation bias. The "bad" thing is your case, I never called you bad. The point is that it's hard as shit for me to think you believe the shit you are saying. Your "case" on me comes out of nowhere, has basically no valid point at all, yet it's somehow enough for you to instantly believe I'm scum. There's no thought process of yours stating why you had this change of stance on me (i.e why you suddenly think I'm suspicious as fuck), and had basically no reasoning at all behind it. You just hopped on someone's ass to ride along and tunnel, without seemingly caring if he's actually scum or not. There was always the chance you were just "bad" with your initial case, but it doesn't seem to be the case since you are not following up on it at all, and are just using it as an excuse to jump on my ass, and apparently on the bandwagon that can be formed on me. Yeah, I can't see you doing that as town at all Oats. Specially not after the shit JingleHell pulled on me on Aperture 2; I won't fall for that again. As far as your "meta" goes, I don't really like looking at lots of past games unless I'm not actually sure about someone's else alignment; but briefly skimming what other's posted about your previous town/scum games is even more incriminating in my mind. ##Vote: OatsMasterOat's attacks on me can't come from a townie, period. I'd prefer lynching him today, and maybe leaving annul for a vig. Hopefully there was a vig last night and he decided to hold his shot. If not we can kill him with the double-lynch tomorrow, which (in my mind) is there for that reason. Just in case some people still want to lynch me, I'll address the things said against me in a few minutes. . Post is decent-sized, we can assume that Gonzaw spent a decent part of the time between 4:07 and 4:20 writing that/responding to some of the suspicion on him. What really got me was that, as he's returning to thread and responding to SOME of the stuff that popped up on him, at least oats's suspicions, Gonzaw also responds to Vivax's pestering: On January 24 2013 04:21 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 04:18 Vivax wrote:
Hey gonzaw, what do you think about my current scumreads? Haven't read the whole read to check what they are, and don't have much time right now. When I finish reading the thread and responding to people I'll check them out. On January 24 2013 04:29 gonzaw wrote:I don't think yamato is scum, because he is heavily involved in discussions, was pretty active on D1, yet didn't seem to try and push a scum agenda (for instance get elected as scum mayor, or try to get a scum mayor elected) I'm not really seeing this, but I'm not paying that much attention right now. Those 3 quotes of town/scum games don't tell me much at first glance On January 24 2013 04:38 gonzaw wrote:
Are you serious?
If he was scum, he'd try to get elected as scum mayor, specially since he did try to get elected at one point in time, based on his activity and how he was playing at the time
Holy shit Vivax Three responses, actually reading Vivax's stuff and responding, while we can assume writing this bit that was posted at 4:43 TL time, a response to the concerns of FiveTouch, Bugs, and Toad: + Show Spoiler +On January 24 2013 04:43 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2013 23:29 FiveTouch wrote:
Anyway, gonzaw. His prplhz stuff looks bad, although to be fair he's not the only one. The problem with gonzaw is that he should really know better. What do you mean by "should know better"? prplhz obviously wasn't a "bad lynch" by D1 by any standards. I just felt it was mostly a shot in the dark, he could flip scum or town. Thus I didn't feel he would be a good lynch on D1 ahead of other people I felt WAY more confident on, like Oats, and some people that I was not that sure (because their lack of activity basically) but still felt more confident on, like Stutters, and maybe Clarity. Show nested quote +There's one other post I've had written down since I read it in Day 1, On January 21 2013 14:35 gonzaw wrote:On January 21 2013 14:26 Mocsta wrote:
@gonsaw
toad gave reasons for vivax being town. I thought they were subjectve as fuck.
From memory the stand out reasoning was howw he could post his campaign and be active in qt if scum
there is no fcuking way vivax typed that first post afyer the game started.. It was premade and in no way is indicative of alignment. If toads disagrees wit this then his reads overall should be put into question.
Btw with a premade case...it might make sense to take a breather if u rolled scum and needed to plan.
But.. Why listen to me. Im not a vet and so to toad my opinion doesnt matter Well, I had my "campaign" post premade as well + Show Spoiler +Well, actually I had another one premade, but before the game started I lost it so I had to make it again when the game started I have a feeling Vivax may have done something similar. There's this gut feeling that tells me scum Vivax wouldn't instantly post that campaign post as soon as the game started if he saw his "You are scum!" Pm in his inbox, and maybe likely wouldn't even post it at all (and just trash it). It's speculation based on what I would think scum Vivax would do, which may not be much but it doesn't mean what Toad said is "completely bullshit". I didn't like the bolded at all, casually suggesting he wouldn't have ran for mayor as mafia. I absolutely believe gonzaw would run for mayor as mafia, so this looks quite bad to me. Well, I don't really know how you would take that, but it's true. I didn't push a mayor candidacy on me on pre-game, and that obviously happened before I got my role PM. At the time I was thinking "I want to be mayor so bad....but if I flip scum I may regret going all in about a mayor candidacy on pre-game, it basically forces me to run for mayor as scum, no matter what" I dunno if I would have run as mayor as scum, maybe I would. It would heavily depend on what team I was in (for instance I dont' think I'd seriously run as mayor if my scumteam was you+wbg+sandro for instance). That could be WIFOM and I have no way of saying if I would or not....so yeah I don't think we should really dwell on that to be honest.
Show nested quote +On January 23 2013 12:09 DearestSnot wrote:
I like gonzaw for a lynch actually.
I feel like some of the things he has said are almost too dumb from a town gonzaw. In particular, his opposition to the prplhz lynch, while he somewhat supported Oats, and his opinions all game have been really neutral. I don't believe I've seen him taken a hard stance on really anything, and he is not really that proactive about his reads or his pushes. I always get the "gonzaw seems too dumb to be town" thing often, but I seriously can't see what I'm doing "dumb" this game (in contrast to, for instance, my derps in Can't Believe). I think you are rushing this too much. You don't even seem to believe I'm scum with this. I take it it's the whole night kill issue and my comments, which I can easily explain to avoid misunderstandings. If I seem "neutral" at times (which I don't really see, maybe with some players like annul/BKE/lurkers/etc last night), then...well I dunno. If I am indeed at points, it may be because this is a big game and it's harder for me to keep up than minis, and I prefer to "waste my time" being in the thread and seeing/being part of interactions/discussions. I'm too lazy at times to reread filters in big games and make "in-depth" analysis Show nested quote +His mayoral campaign was what...he'd be transparent? Posting a lot is not the same as being transparent, particularly as I don't even remember what his lynch candidate was. My mayoral campaing was that I'd try to establish my innocent and hunt scum, like I do every time I'm town. Yes, I always try to be transparent when town as well. Don't know why you don't feel like I was, I think I was. My lynch candidate, or rather "who I wanted Five to lynch", was Oats on D1 basically. At that point I was still not 100% sure so I wouldn't have mind a lynch on Stutters, or maybe Clarity, at least at one point in time. After I basically knew I wasn't the mayor any more, I didn't try to desperately "find a lynch candidate now!", and instead try to find who I'd want Five to lynch, or ultimately (if something unexpected happened, like someone else becoming mayor, or maybe even me) who I'd be okay with the elected guy lynching.
Show nested quote +On January 23 2013 20:45 Toadesstern wrote:
gonzaw looks / looked a townie so far and I really thought he'd die as a secondary target as you can see when you're reading the logs between Sandro and myself. And Sandro agreed so that's one of the reaons I'm talking about Gonzaw right now. Well I obviously didn't. Stop WIFOMing yourself like this Toad. After you started basically yelling at medics who to protect (me/austin/sandro/wbg), I had a feeling I wouldn't die at night, which is why I wasn't surprised about the night kills (again, except the sandro one, which did seem like scum took a risk at shooting). IF Gonzaw was mafia, I would expect him to be crafting his responses to suspicion, checking if anyone was active in QT to give him a rundown of exactly what to respond to in the thread. And he DOES make responses. But interwoven with his Oats response and his FT/Bugs/Toad response is this dialogue with Vivax. And that, gut read, is out of place for scum in this situation. Return to thread, see you've picked up votes, see you've got suspicion from a NUMBER of players, for both your play and balance reasons, and...while responding to that pressure you keep tossing comments offhand at Vivax? Just doesn't fit my mental picture of what scum is focused on there.
tl;didn'tclickspoiler - When Gonzaw returned to the thread, he was under pressure. Vivax, oats, debears, FT, Bugs, Toad had all either voted him, found him scummy, noted that he might be scum for balance reasons. In the middle of his responses to some of those posts, he reads some stuff Vivax wants him to read, comments on it, and has a back and forth with Vivax.
I do not think that fits scum's return to thread when ... what, 1/3 the game? is putting some kind of pressure on him. That's REMARKABLE cool at that point to be addressing the suspicions while playing the Vivax game. His actions in that little window of time look townie to me.
I get that he doesn't look awesome for some of his prplhz comments, but I had some of the same thoughts, as did sandro, so I can't really find that scummy. I found most of his other D1 stuff townie, as noted before.
The post about the NKs I just don't understand at all. It looks really weird, but not in a scummy way. Like, there's just no reason for him to say that or do anything about that. I can't grasp a scum motivation for saying that stuff, I don't understand why scum would do it offhand, I just...it makes no sense. As town or scum. So for now I'm disregarding that, and entirely unsure why Gonzaw could see those as the NK targets.
His post about maybe 1 bodyguard being scum 1 town is the scummiest thing I found from a reread. That's a weird assumption to make in a world full of 2-0 and 0-2 assumptions. He explained in a bit oddly, and kind of stumbled when questioned on it. For now, I'm just kind of flagging that set of posts, but the rest of his filter is town to me.
That's Part 1 of looking at Gonzaw's posts and people posting about Gonzaw, just what I get about Gonzaw himself.
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