TL Mafia LIX - Page 87

Toadesstern

Germany16350 Posts

January 23 2013 17:22 GMT

#1721

On January 24 2013 02:20 Vivax wrote:
Just to be safe though:

The sheriff is able to send the PM during the night yes?

Can there be multiple mafia powerroles of one kind?

(1) Yes
(2) No, except for mafia masons of course.

austinmcc

United States6737 Posts

January 23 2013 17:25 GMT

#1722

On January 24 2013 02:15 FiveTouch wrote:

Show nested quote +

On January 24 2013 02:12 austinmcc wrote:

On January 24 2013 02:04 FiveTouch wrote:

On January 24 2013 01:22 Toadesstern wrote:

On January 24 2013 01:19 FiveTouch wrote:

On January 24 2013 01:14 Toadesstern wrote:

On January 24 2013 01:13 FiveTouch wrote:

On January 24 2013 01:09 Toadesstern wrote:

On January 24 2013 01:08 FiveTouch wrote:

On January 24 2013 01:04 Vivax wrote:
[quote]

I already said Oats is town. I said it when I read he's your bodyguard, I said the same about debears. Nothing has changed about that, go read.
I'm not talking about why I think he's town. That's his own job.

This is also in answer to Mocsta.

Then you should tell me why you think my points on him being mafia are incorrect. Dispute what I've said if you disagree with it.

want to talk about debears / oats?
I'd like to hear your thoughts on what's more likely while trying to spam away terribads.

How do you mean, what's more likely?

well you're still alive, right?

The problem is, you can't draw too much from it right now. I announced the bodyguards right at deadline. So:

If 2 mafia are bodyguards and I'm shot, it outs 2 mafia
If 0 mafia are bodyguards, they can't shoot me
If 1 mafia is bodyguard, they still can't shoot me because they don't know the other bodyguard

In every single scenario, mafia can't shoot me.

yeah but clearly either mafia DID sub in 1 or 2 guys and came to the very same conclusion OR they didn't sub in which makes both town.
If they came to the same conclusion I don't see a reason to sub in to begin with. Might as well just leave 2 townie as BGs and hope to hit some on the road when mafia can't hit us anyways (without saccing 2 people themselves).

Just because I was musing.

If Oats is town: There is a roughly 1/10 chance of Oatsmaster being randomly selected as bodyguard.
If Oats is mafia: Is there a greater than 1/10 chance that Oatsmaster is put in as bodyguard? I would contend yes.

I'm still under the assumption that both our elected folk are town.

If that's the case, scumoats as a BG gives him a little bit of cover when he was under pressure D1 and would probably be under pressure D2. Mafia risks outing scum BGs ONLY if they want to kill FT/Toad before the bodyguards have been outed as mafia, and they gain some towncred for the mafia BGs so long as those two are alive.

I don't see a lot of downside to scum BGs, or a scum BG, in that case. If your bodyguards live, that's a day or two holding onto 2 KP, and maybe you think being a BG gives them a better chance to survive than not-BG. If town still kills them, well, by installing mafia BG(s), you made it easier to shoot the elected folk. Regardless of any other strategy involved, installing mafia BG(s) just makes it easier to get at the officials, whether they out the BGs or not.

Yes, this is how I interpret it to, and you worded quite well. If, for example, mafia consider they can't save Oatsmaster from the lynch because the mayor who just lynched mafia wants him dead, mafia may as well use the opportunity to get rid of a bodyguard for free.

Of course this doesn't have to be the case, but it's extremely plausible.

Yeah, I'm fine with all the BG-stuff being put aside for now. Nobody being a BG makes them scum, but I'm 100% in agreement it doesn't also make you town.

I'll do a more substantive read this evening, but a quick check has him on BOTH the mass ninja voting group that I'm worried about AND voting for me as mayor D1 once things shifted towards FT. Granted, FT wanted to lynch him and I was more skeptical, so I don't think that's terribly strong. Need to see what I'd already said about him at the time I voted.

But...I had two votes, FT had zero. Toad and FT, my voters, moved off me and over to FT, along with two others. Now 4 FT votes and 0 me votes. Djodref and oatsmaster then voted me, not right after the swap but within like 6 hoursish.

Djo flipped town. I'm still pretty convinced there was scum on me. The timing on Oats's me-vote, on a quick check, fits the timing where people suddently move to FT and then I pick up a couple votes. It's just not as strong as with other players because of FT also wanting to lynch oats.

The voting just doesn't make me feel good about things. I still disagree about exactly how contradictory his vote was with the lurker stuff, but nothing really looks GOOD for townoats, off the top of my head.

yamato77

11589 Posts

January 23 2013 18:40 GMT

#1723

I'm going to have to reassess what I think of this game, and I don't have the time to do it today.

I'll be here tomorrow with a better idea of who I think is mafia. Right now there are definitely some weird things going on.

Vivax

21767 Posts

January 23 2013 18:51 GMT

#1724

On January 24 2013 03:40 yamato77 wrote:
I'm going to have to reassess what I think of this game, and I don't have the time to do it today.

I'll be here tomorrow with a better idea of who I think is mafia. Right now there are definitely some weird things going on.

For example you not being your tunnely self -you usually are as town- since day1 despite trying to look like you feel suspicious about certain things.

Sorry, Napoleon. I know you shouldn't tell your enemies when they make mistakes.

yamato77

11589 Posts

January 23 2013 18:58 GMT

#1725

On January 24 2013 03:51 Vivax wrote:

Show nested quote +

The only reason I am not tunneling the shit out of you right now is because FT says you are town and I am trying not to shit up the thread with useless posting.

Be wary of calling me mafia. If I was mafia I wouldn't be posting NEARLY as much as I am.

Vivax

21767 Posts

January 23 2013 19:05 GMT

#1726

The problem actually isn't that you aren't your tunnely self. After checking other games where you were town I noticed that you weren't acting as if you were suspicious all the time like here.

You're simply more light-hearted as town. Here you became really worked up when I counter-accused at the start of the game.

It's more like you try excessively to be a tunnely yamato. Seems like you're trying to do the opposite of what you did in your last scum game where you started out insecure, but even there I see a few posts where you act aggressive towards the people you are pushing.

If you are town, do you mind answering a few questions? I'll be nice about them.

- Who do you want to lynch most? I guess it's Oats or annul right?
- You stopped pushing me at the end of N1 becoming wary of annul. What made you change your mind about me?
- What do you think about Toad, gonzaw and Mocsta?

gonzaw

Uruguay4911 Posts

January 23 2013 19:07 GMT

#1727

Well I'm here, but I'm still catching up on the thread.

I am not sure why I'm suddenly discussed as D2 lynch today for no reason (what I managed to skim), but I won't be lynched today if town doesn't derp.

Vivax

21767 Posts

January 23 2013 19:10 GMT

#1728

Scum Yamato, british empire mm
+ Show Spoiler +

On January 08 2013 11:41 yamato77 wrote:

Show nested quote +

On January 08 2013 11:27 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:

On January 08 2013 11:19 yamato77 wrote:
CC's defense of his admittedly scummy okay this game is this:

On January 08 2013 05:17 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:

On January 08 2013 05:04 Hapahauli wrote:

On January 08 2013 04:59 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:

On January 08 2013 04:31 Hapahauli wrote:
In school right now - interested to hear a reply to dp's case, as well as scumreads

In terms of DP's case.. It's alright. He's wrong, but I'm pretty scummy and much of the argument does hold water. However, I'm fairly disinterested with the pressure on me right now. I don't think I'll be lynched tomorrow, and I won't sit here and waste time deflecting every point brought against me. We can all settle on the fact that I'm super scummy right now, and that's fine with me.

I would like you to be concerned, because I'm interested in hearing you defend what looks like a reasonable case against you.

His main point is that I just "heap shit on weak players". I don't know how you'd like me to defend that, because it's true. Some people need shit heaped on them to start doing stuff. Most of it is based on my shitty stream post, which, as all indicates, heaps shit on players. I heap some shit here and there, it's all fine. I want answers. And if you have to dig your way out that's perfectly fine with me.

The thread has been pathetically inactive for how long the game has been going. If I have to make myself seem scummy to generate some sort of response, well here we have it.

Problem is, I haven't heard from players that are really concerning like SP or Yamato.

He says he has to be scummy because its the only way to move the thread forward. Again, how is this indicative of a town mindset? If he's town, why does he want to intentionally look scummy so that town wastes time and effort looking at him? No, he's much more likely to be scum baiting town into lynching him while thinking they won't because "scum wouldn't look so scummy".

Furthermore, how is his play supposed to generate useful discussion? This whole post looks like post-hoc rationalization, a trademark of scum behavior. If he wanted to move the thread forward meaningfully, why didn't he do so by actually making substantiated cases on his reads with evidence to back up his cutesy one-liners? Because he's full of shit and he knows it.

It took you an hour to dig up that? I am disappoint. If you really thought I was scum you would have had that in 10 minutes tops.

Oh, and you seemed to have missed the part where I said I wasn't intentionally looking scummy, it was just a bi-product of my shenanigans to get answers. You know, the post after that in my filter.

Try harder please, Yamato. Why am I scummy? This is just an extension of the "You aren't promoting useful discussion" argument.

Excuse me for having other things to do in my life besides prove to town that you are scum.

Are you going to do anything today besides defend yourself? Poorly,I might add.

I bring up plenty of points besides just the useful discussion point. You cannot deny it looks like straight up post-hoc rationale. You didn't intend to look scummy with your shit but now that you do and you realize people see it that way you're making up bullshit excuses for your shit play.

I'm dine with reading your useless posts. It is in town's best interest to see you hang.

##Vote: Mr Cheesecake

On January 08 2013 07:48 yamato77 wrote:

Show nested quote +

Is your only response to my suspicion of you "lol"?

Let's say I vote you tomorrow with case attached, are you going to just lol that too?

Fucking useless.

On January 06 2013 19:02 yamato77 wrote:
Xatalos what the fuck is that post?

How is Shiao voting for a lurker who eventually got replaced scummy? He wants him to be more active, and somehow that's scum motivated?

His stances are not weak. He's been putting pressure on me since he made the post, and he wants to do so to you. It's not like he's just saying shit to say it.

And then this gem

"I guess it's about time to finally cast a vote"

Or in other words:

"I'm going to put this riiiiight here. Hopefully town doesn't think I'm scummy for this!"

That shit is weak, bro.

Town Yamato
+ Show Spoiler +

On December 21 2012 06:07 yamato77 wrote:

Show nested quote +

I told you why I'm voting for you and your responses didn't help anything. I have plenty of reason.

Other people may have read this and thought the same things. Why is sheeping people with good reads a bad thing anyway?

On December 21 2012 06:11 yamato77 wrote:
Convince me on Vivax then. If he's so scummy make an updated case with more content. All you've done is post your read and then ask everyone else what they thought of your read. That doesn't feel like scum hunting to me.

On December 21 2012 06:19 yamato77 wrote:

Show nested quote +

The differ pence is focus. You keep saying Vivax is scum but you've spent a lot more time discrediting Palmer than pushing your read on Vivax. You are not scum hunting. You are throwing shit at a town player. This is my point.

I'm not being hypocritical because my focus is squarely set on you. You're scum, I'm voting for you, and I'm pushing my read and defending the case. You are doing none of these things.

Wiggles was really mafia in this game when yamato was talking to him.

As you see, two different styles of talking to his scumreads.

But check his meta for yourself guys.

Vivax

21767 Posts

January 23 2013 19:11 GMT

#1729

Sorry yamato, you still have to improve as scum lol.

But I see you're putting a lot of effort into this game, so I feel a bit bad for you.

Vivax

21767 Posts

January 23 2013 19:16 GMT

#1730

Aaaaaah, the silence when scum is preparing the WIFOM-bombs about his teammates.

mkfuba07

United States1151 Posts

January 23 2013 19:18 GMT

#1731

On January 24 2013 04:10 Vivax wrote:
Scum Yamato, british empire mm
+ Show Spoiler +

On January 08 2013 11:41 yamato77 wrote:

Show nested quote +

On January 08 2013 11:27 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:

On January 08 2013 11:19 yamato77 wrote:
CC's defense of his admittedly scummy okay this game is this:

On January 08 2013 05:17 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:

On January 08 2013 05:04 Hapahauli wrote:

On January 08 2013 04:59 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:

On January 08 2013 04:31 Hapahauli wrote:
In school right now - interested to hear a reply to dp's case, as well as scumreads

I would like you to be concerned, because I'm interested in hearing you defend what looks like a reasonable case against you.

On January 08 2013 07:48 yamato77 wrote:

Show nested quote +

Is your only response to my suspicion of you "lol"?

Let's say I vote you tomorrow with case attached, are you going to just lol that too?

Fucking useless.

Town Yamato
+ Show Spoiler +

On December 21 2012 06:07 yamato77 wrote:

Show nested quote +

On December 21 2012 06:19 yamato77 wrote:

Show nested quote +

Wiggles was really mafia in this game when yamato was talking to him.

As you see, two different styles of talking to his scumreads.

But check his meta for yourself guys.

Hmmm... I'm in class at the moment, but this is interesting. I'll take a better look at yamato once I'm home.

Vivax

21767 Posts

January 23 2013 19:18 GMT

#1732

Hey gonzaw, what do you think about my current scumreads?

gonzaw

Uruguay4911 Posts

January 23 2013 19:20 GMT

#1733

On January 23 2013 10:47 Oatsmaster wrote:
Gonzaw,
Not following up on questions and scumreads makes you scum because you just ask those questions for the sake of asking questions and not to find scum

I asked those questions to get info from people, which they did (I think, I don't remember much), and to get a better read on Stutters/Clarity if people had anything valuable to add.

Show nested quote +

Do you understand the meaning of questioning? It means to directly ask someone something. Mentioning that he is a townread without following up on your point seems scummy because it looks like you are just making conversation and following the flow of the thread.

Why did you expect me to "question" Vivax? Why Vivax out of everybody?
I don't see how this is relevant at all.

Oatsmaster:
Testing the waters on whether he should push a stutters or clarity lynch.

Gonzaw:
How does that make sense in a mayor election D1? :/

Because people will also vote for the mayor because they agree with the lynch that the mayor pushes, so if the thread generally thinks that stutters or clarity is scum, you can push their lynch as part of your campaign.

It obviously doesn't work that way, if I was mayor I could lynch whoever the fuck I want, whether people "agree" with it or not.
If I was just "testing the waters" to "gain support", then it doesn't work that way either. You don't elect a mayor just because he's pressuring someone you agree is pressuring.
And whether this works this way or not, how do you suddenly conclude this is what I did as, in your mind, scum mayor?
This is all confirmation bias from your part, "ah, if gonzaw was a scum mayor, then he could have been 'testing the waters' with what he was posting!".

Overall, it seems like Gonzaw thinks that im bad, OMGUS, and just discredits my case that way.

Wow, this misses the point so much it hurts.

Oats, you out of nowhere said "There is mafia in the mayor candidates!", randomly chose me, and started using heavy confirmation bias.
The "bad" thing is your case, I never called you bad.
The point is that it's hard as shit for me to think you believe the shit you are saying.

Your "case" on me comes out of nowhere, has basically no valid point at all, yet it's somehow enough for you to instantly believe I'm scum.
There's no thought process of yours stating why you had this change of stance on me (i.e why you suddenly think I'm suspicious as fuck), and had basically no reasoning at all behind it.
You just hopped on someone's ass to ride along and tunnel, without seemingly caring if he's actually scum or not.
There was always the chance you were just "bad" with your initial case, but it doesn't seem to be the case since you are not following up on it at all, and are just using it as an excuse to jump on my ass, and apparently on the bandwagon that can be formed on me.

Yeah, I can't see you doing that as town at all Oats.
Specially not after the shit JingleHell pulled on me on Aperture 2; I won't fall for that again.

As far as your "meta" goes, I don't really like looking at lots of past games unless I'm not actually sure about someone's else alignment; but briefly skimming what other's posted about your previous town/scum games is even more incriminating in my mind.

##Vote: OatsMaster

Oat's attacks on me can't come from a townie, period.

I'd prefer lynching him today, and maybe leaving annul for a vig. Hopefully there was a vig last night and he decided to hold his shot. If not we can kill him with the double-lynch tomorrow, which (in my mind) is there for that reason.

Just in case some people still want to lynch me, I'll address the things said against me in a few minutes.

gonzaw

Uruguay4911 Posts

January 23 2013 19:21 GMT

#1734

On January 24 2013 04:18 Vivax wrote:
Hey gonzaw, what do you think about my current scumreads?

Haven't read the whole read to check what they are, and don't have much time right now.
When I finish reading the thread and responding to people I'll check them out.

Vivax

21767 Posts

January 23 2013 19:23 GMT

#1735

Doesn't need that much time to read the little bit I wrote about yamato right? Why don't you do a quickie on that?

FiveTouch

Marshall Islands1474 Posts

January 23 2013 19:27 GMT

#1736

Why does Vivax keep pushing the towniest town guys in the game? Jesus.

Vivax

21767 Posts

January 23 2013 19:29 GMT

#1737

On January 24 2013 04:27 FiveTouch wrote:
Why does Vivax keep pushing the towniest town guys in the game? Jesus.

I'm doing it Toad-style. Quoting this for post-game. Or post-lynch.

gonzaw

Uruguay4911 Posts

January 23 2013 19:29 GMT

#1738

I don't think yamato is scum, because he is heavily involved in discussions, was pretty active on D1, yet didn't seem to try and push a scum agenda (for instance get elected as scum mayor, or try to get a scum mayor elected)

[quote="Vivax"]two different styles of talking to his scumreads[/quote]

I'm not really seeing this, but I'm not paying that much attention right now.
Those 3 quotes of town/scum games don't tell me much at first glance

Vivax

21767 Posts

January 23 2013 19:32 GMT

#1739

On January 24 2013 04:29 gonzaw wrote:
I don't think yamato is scum, because he is heavily involved in discussions, was pretty active on D1, yet didn't seem to try and push a scum agenda (for instance get elected as scum mayor, or try to get a scum mayor elected)

[quote="Vivax"]two different styles of talking to his scumreads

I'm not really seeing this, but I'm not paying that much attention right now.
Those 3 quotes of town/scum games don't tell me much at first glance[/QUOTE]

DAFUQ?

Gonzaw you made this too easy for me. Hf in your qt.

Vivax

21767 Posts

January 23 2013 19:34 GMT

#1740

Sorry dude. But right now I'm laughing my ass off about your slip.

When Bugs sees that it will go down in history.

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