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+ Show Spoiler +On January 24 2013 01:39 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 01:35 Vivax wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 24 2013 01:28 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 01:23 Vivax wrote:
Debears check the voting thread before you waste energy to find things that you misinterpreted anyway.
People this game. Your flip on Toad is dumb and scummy as shit, considering he finally agrees with you on gonzaw. Yet, you still rip him for voting gonzaw. Oh, and the only reason you find him scum is jk wifom. You disregard his(toads) whole d1 play in which you preached him as town. Oh, and you think him and Gonzaw are suddenly scum team. Congratulations vivax this game......... 1. My flip on Toad is based on much more than jk wifom. You would know it if you read his stance on gonzaw and Oats and the answers he provided when I asked him about various reads like yamato, gonzaw annul etc. 2. You're stupid to think that I can't change opinion on someone cause I had another one D1. It's neither scummy nor is it bad, and all the reasons for doing that are out there. I simply thought Toad was town D1. Now I don't believe it anymore. 3. I found gonzaw scummy very early. That is reflected in my distrust in him as elected role in my earlier posts. I am not ripping people for THAT they vote gonzaw, I rip them for HOW they vote him. And that's the reason why I asked so many questions about him. I'm not trying to dissuade people from doing so. In Toad's case it looks to me like he doesn't vote for him cause he suddenly reads him as scum. So when Djo and JX died over Gonzaw and Austin you didn't suddenly go "wow"?
Why should I when I was suspicious of both of them in the first place?
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K Vivax as promised here is my take on Annul filter
I have spoilered it, because I dont want to de-emphasise from Oatsmaster
+ Show Spoiler +TL;DRI think he is probably scum (I also think Oatsmaster is probably scum) Cliff Notes - First real contribution is calling Vivax out for OMGUS.
I dont like this, because it was just bringing back to the fore, an item already discussed in detail (when Oats raised it). But when Annul brings it back to attention, he adds no original thought, its merely re-raising it.
On January 21 2013 12:11 annul wrote:
... however, pointing out bad play like vivax's line there is hardly "useless" no matter who says it.
Disagree. Pointing out comments with no feedback is what is useless, and definitely not town oriented in nature.
- Then starts to tunnel Vivax.. what is interesting to me is this.
On January 21 2013 12:56 annul wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2013 12:48 Djodref wrote:
@ annul
Do you really think Vivax or Toad could get lynched today ?
I wouldn't lynch the most vocal players on D1, so I'm against it, but do you think you can convince enough people to lynch them ? i only really need to convince one person. perhaps whoever does win the election (protip: VOTE FOR ME!) will be swayed by my commentary. that's all i can hope for.
Here he is admitting Toad/Vivax have a town read in general; and then hopes he can convince the mayor, Doesnt give a FLYING FUCK about trying to convince us.. thats not town like.. if you have a read, the mayor doesnt have to lynch him day 1. You can campaign for Day2, Day 3. This lack of care is hallmark scum play.
- Then throws in a pity comment
On January 22 2013 00:11 annul wrote:
i find it funny that my analyses and accusations have gone completely ignored
Having read the filter and coming to this, I was thinking what analysis? Theres minimal content no some town read comments and a response to Axle. If he is referring to Vivax.. well.. its all built on a foundation of OMGUS with no further thought applied? IIRC someone in the thread already pointed out this comment is standard scum way to help blend in, and be forgotten about even moreso.
- The next is one of Annul more encompassing quotes
On January 22 2013 00:11 annul wrote:
i find it funny that my analyses and accusations have gone completely ignored
what analysis?
On January 22 2013 00:56 annul wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2013 00:45 Vivax wrote:- You mention that I attack people out of OMGUS. Why don't you consider the counter-examples in your reasoning? I didn't attack everyone for suspecting me. You should know this best since you were one of them.
- You think my cases are bad and that I'm scum. That implies two things: You have a town read on JX, and you have a town read on yamato. Is this correct?
- You didn't push yamato as mayor candidate when he announced it even though I'm your top scumread and you probably think he's town. You don't express a preference for mayor candidates at all, so tell me:
Why so disinterested in who gets the spot? Who are your favourite candidates?
- I am just one possible scum out of five. Did you form any scumreads outside of me?
1. "yes, i OMGUSed someone, but then when people FOSed me for OMGUSing that one person, i did not subsequently OMGUS them for FOSing me... therefore, my original OMGUS is not so bad!" <--- if i need to explain why this is a bad line, i dont know what to tell you2. not correct. i have an anti-town read on you. i have seen the day 1 bus used before, so i am NOT saying one way or the other about JX or yamato right now.3. i did not push for yamato because i am running and i want to be mayor. also, i did not say i thought "yamato is probably town" so please do not put words in my mouth. 4. i am not disinterested in the spot nor have i been all game; i have been trying to get people to vote for me. my favorite candidate is myself.5. i have ideas, but none that are worth expounding upon right now, for i am less sure of them than i am of you.
WOW..
So point #1 - Says his OMGUS of vivax is ok BECAUSE he didtn OMGUS others when they raised suspicion.. what a load of crap.. The key point is, Annul admits his foundation is purely OMGUS, and has never applied further critical thinking. Fuckn scummy as!
Point #2 - Doesnt want to share his reads on yam/jx.. why?
Point #3 - again, doesnt want to share his reads.. why?
Point #4 - When was he trying to get others to vote? If he is referring to his first post, that came across as more of joke. This is just complete Dont give a FLYING FUCK all over again.
Point #5 - again, not sharing.. this guy is a vet, and is nto comfortable sharing his reads? I find that hard to believe..
- He then trys to tarnish Toad by saying scum mason would love to oust a log that had Sandroba in it (this was BEFORE SANDROBA FLIPPED!) Interestingly IIRC Toad was uncomfortable posting the logs, and even said it wasnt to try and get town cred. The way he handled the situation I think was genuine. So this is direct manipulation of events (potentially due to knowning Sandroba was town and setting up a trap for Toad)
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On January 23 2013 11:51 annul wrote:
what i will not be doing is wasting 48 hours of MY time defending myself. that's what will not be happening.
in over half of my games on TL, i have been the absolute tunnel on day 2. this happens when i go all in day 1, when i am moderately active day 1, and now apparently its the case even when i say almost nothing day 1.
the smart play, then, is to lay down and "accept defeat" and force the players to actually do other shit than keep on attacking me. if i defend, it wastes time by giving people incentive to keep pushing me. so, i will not defend. in fact, i will not say much at all. if i feel like i can save myself when the time is running out, then i will. otherwise, i am not going to get worked up over it when the end result is ANOTHER day 2 lynch anyway.
Personally i read this as.. I hope another lynch candidate comes up to divert attention so I will proceed to lurk for the time being.
I apologise for the cluster of text.. as I was writing it, more thoughts came to the fore.
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I take that means you want to lynch annul over gonzaw?
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Vivax.. me?
My first choice is Oats, then Annul
I haven't gone through Gonzaw, sorry for being so slow.. its 1am here, and with now 2 ppl i feel strongly about, i dont see the point in reviewing Gonzaw + Im stil awaiting you commentary on Oats with the shy/confidence lying.
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It's a good post, it convinced me.
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That you could be scum I mean.
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On January 24 2013 01:57 Vivax wrote:
That you could be scum I mean.
Right....
Are you always this disruptive in play?
I cant help but feel, your pissed I asked (politely) to put on hold the chat with Toad.
Regardless, what do you think of my points about Annul?
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I think they're half-assed and forced. More focused on finding mistakes and inconsistencies in his play rather than reasons for him being scum.
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On January 24 2013 01:57 Vivax wrote:
It's a good post, it convinced me. On January 24 2013 01:57 Vivax wrote:
That you could be scum I mean.
Tell me again why we had you down as townread early on...
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Marshall Islands1474 Posts
On January 24 2013 01:22 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 01:19 FiveTouch wrote:On January 24 2013 01:14 Toadesstern wrote:On January 24 2013 01:13 FiveTouch wrote:On January 24 2013 01:09 Toadesstern wrote:On January 24 2013 01:08 FiveTouch wrote:On January 24 2013 01:04 Vivax wrote:On January 24 2013 00:58 FiveTouch wrote:On January 24 2013 00:52 Vivax wrote:On January 24 2013 00:49 Mocsta wrote:
Toad/Vivax.
I know this is a lot of a non-vet to ask of vets, but can you please put your discussions on hold.
I feel like you two are discussing semantics - i am not saying the discussion is invalid or inappropriate.. just :
Concurrently we have a case mounting on Oats, based on facts in this game and meta from a game I just played with him.
I would really appreciate if you could share your thoughts on what FiveTouch and myself have raised over the past 2 pages.
Where's the analysis of gonzaw and Toad you promised? The irony of all your posts is that you basically refuse to comment on the player that I want to lynch (dude who killed mafia, just to remind you). This is about it: On January 23 2013 22:16 Vivax wrote:
Oats, you have this annoying habit of defending people when they should be talking.
Defend him with your vote and nothing else please, he's already secretive as of now. Why do you think you have the right to demand answers from others, when unwilling to provide opinions yourself on other cases? Or are you simply that much of an outrageous hypocrite? I already said Oats is town. I said it when I read he's your bodyguard, I said the same about debears. Nothing has changed about that, go read. I'm not talking about why I think he's town. That's his own job. This is also in answer to Mocsta. Then you should tell me why you think my points on him being mafia are incorrect. Dispute what I've said if you disagree with it. want to talk about debears / oats? I'd like to hear your thoughts on what's more likely while trying to spam away terribads. How do you mean, what's more likely? well you're still alive, right? The problem is, you can't draw too much from it right now. I announced the bodyguards right at deadline. So: If 2 mafia are bodyguards and I'm shot, it outs 2 mafia If 0 mafia are bodyguards, they can't shoot me If 1 mafia is bodyguard, they still can't shoot me because they don't know the other bodyguard In every single scenario, mafia can't shoot me. yeah but clearly either mafia DID sub in 1 or 2 guys and came to the very same conclusion OR they didn't sub in which makes both town. If they came to the same conclusion I don't see a reason to sub in to begin with. Might as well just leave 2 townie as BGs and hope to hit some on the road when mafia can't hit us anyways (without saccing 2 people themselves).
Just because I was musing.
If Oats is town: There is a roughly 1/10 chance of Oatsmaster being randomly selected as bodyguard.
If Oats is mafia: Is there a greater than 1/10 chance that Oatsmaster is put in as bodyguard? I would contend yes.
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Marshall Islands1474 Posts
That wasn't meant to be an argument that because Oats is bodyguard he's mafia, by the way.
Merely to illustrate that the fact he is bodyguard shouldn't suggest he is town.
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The huge CAPSLOCK parts you put in there also suggest you wanted to achieve some show/omg-effect by pointing out various things like that.
But you seem to not be too convinced yourself by these oh so thrilling revelations since you don't want to lynch him before annul.
Really bad acting there.
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On January 24 2013 02:04 FiveTouch wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 01:22 Toadesstern wrote:On January 24 2013 01:19 FiveTouch wrote:On January 24 2013 01:14 Toadesstern wrote:On January 24 2013 01:13 FiveTouch wrote:On January 24 2013 01:09 Toadesstern wrote:On January 24 2013 01:08 FiveTouch wrote:On January 24 2013 01:04 Vivax wrote:On January 24 2013 00:58 FiveTouch wrote:On January 24 2013 00:52 Vivax wrote:
[quote]
Where's the analysis of gonzaw and Toad you promised? The irony of all your posts is that you basically refuse to comment on the player that I want to lynch (dude who killed mafia, just to remind you). This is about it: On January 23 2013 22:16 Vivax wrote:
Oats, you have this annoying habit of defending people when they should be talking.
Defend him with your vote and nothing else please, he's already secretive as of now. Why do you think you have the right to demand answers from others, when unwilling to provide opinions yourself on other cases? Or are you simply that much of an outrageous hypocrite? I already said Oats is town. I said it when I read he's your bodyguard, I said the same about debears. Nothing has changed about that, go read. I'm not talking about why I think he's town. That's his own job. This is also in answer to Mocsta. Then you should tell me why you think my points on him being mafia are incorrect. Dispute what I've said if you disagree with it. want to talk about debears / oats? I'd like to hear your thoughts on what's more likely while trying to spam away terribads. How do you mean, what's more likely? well you're still alive, right? The problem is, you can't draw too much from it right now. I announced the bodyguards right at deadline. So: If 2 mafia are bodyguards and I'm shot, it outs 2 mafia If 0 mafia are bodyguards, they can't shoot me If 1 mafia is bodyguard, they still can't shoot me because they don't know the other bodyguard In every single scenario, mafia can't shoot me. yeah but clearly either mafia DID sub in 1 or 2 guys and came to the very same conclusion OR they didn't sub in which makes both town. If they came to the same conclusion I don't see a reason to sub in to begin with. Might as well just leave 2 townie as BGs and hope to hit some on the road when mafia can't hit us anyways (without saccing 2 people themselves). Just because I was musing. If Oats is town: There is a roughly 1/10 chance of Oatsmaster being randomly selected as bodyguard. If Oats is mafia: Is there a greater than 1/10 chance that Oatsmaster is put in as bodyguard? I would contend yes.
yeah that's actually very true.
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On January 24 2013 02:04 FiveTouch wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 01:22 Toadesstern wrote:On January 24 2013 01:19 FiveTouch wrote:On January 24 2013 01:14 Toadesstern wrote:On January 24 2013 01:13 FiveTouch wrote:On January 24 2013 01:09 Toadesstern wrote:On January 24 2013 01:08 FiveTouch wrote:On January 24 2013 01:04 Vivax wrote:On January 24 2013 00:58 FiveTouch wrote:On January 24 2013 00:52 Vivax wrote:
[quote]
Where's the analysis of gonzaw and Toad you promised? The irony of all your posts is that you basically refuse to comment on the player that I want to lynch (dude who killed mafia, just to remind you). This is about it: On January 23 2013 22:16 Vivax wrote:
Oats, you have this annoying habit of defending people when they should be talking.
Defend him with your vote and nothing else please, he's already secretive as of now. Why do you think you have the right to demand answers from others, when unwilling to provide opinions yourself on other cases? Or are you simply that much of an outrageous hypocrite? I already said Oats is town. I said it when I read he's your bodyguard, I said the same about debears. Nothing has changed about that, go read. I'm not talking about why I think he's town. That's his own job. This is also in answer to Mocsta. Then you should tell me why you think my points on him being mafia are incorrect. Dispute what I've said if you disagree with it. want to talk about debears / oats? I'd like to hear your thoughts on what's more likely while trying to spam away terribads. How do you mean, what's more likely? well you're still alive, right? The problem is, you can't draw too much from it right now. I announced the bodyguards right at deadline. So: If 2 mafia are bodyguards and I'm shot, it outs 2 mafia If 0 mafia are bodyguards, they can't shoot me If 1 mafia is bodyguard, they still can't shoot me because they don't know the other bodyguard In every single scenario, mafia can't shoot me. yeah but clearly either mafia DID sub in 1 or 2 guys and came to the very same conclusion OR they didn't sub in which makes both town. If they came to the same conclusion I don't see a reason to sub in to begin with. Might as well just leave 2 townie as BGs and hope to hit some on the road when mafia can't hit us anyways (without saccing 2 people themselves). Just because I was musing. If Oats is town: There is a roughly 1/10 chance of Oatsmaster being randomly selected as bodyguard. If Oats is mafia: Is there a greater than 1/10 chance that Oatsmaster is put in as bodyguard? I would contend yes. I'm still under the assumption that both our elected folk are town.
If that's the case, scumoats as a BG gives him a little bit of cover when he was under pressure D1 and would probably be under pressure D2. Mafia risks outing scum BGs ONLY if they want to kill FT/Toad before the bodyguards have been outed as mafia, and they gain some towncred for the mafia BGs so long as those two are alive.
I don't see a lot of downside to scum BGs, or a scum BG, in that case. If your bodyguards live, that's a day or two holding onto 2 KP, and maybe you think being a BG gives them a better chance to survive than not-BG. If town still kills them, well, by installing mafia BG(s), you made it easier to shoot the elected folk. Regardless of any other strategy involved, installing mafia BG(s) just makes it easier to get at the officials, whether they out the BGs or not.
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ebwop: lynch him before Oats.
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On January 24 2013 02:07 Vivax wrote:
The huge CAPSLOCK parts you put in there also suggest you wanted to achieve some show/omg-effect by pointing out various things like that.
But you seem to not be too convinced yourself by these oh so thrilling revelations since you don't want to lynch him before annul.
Really bad acting there.
You love delving into semantics dont you? Did you consider, CAPS LOCK is a lazy way to bold
Anyways, i dont understand what your problem is? I was firm on Oatsmaster before reviewing Annul; I dislike Annul but we can only lynch one person a day. I still rate oatsmaster higher than Annul, so wheres the communication breakdown?
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On January 24 2013 02:12 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 02:04 FiveTouch wrote:On January 24 2013 01:22 Toadesstern wrote:On January 24 2013 01:19 FiveTouch wrote:On January 24 2013 01:14 Toadesstern wrote:On January 24 2013 01:13 FiveTouch wrote:On January 24 2013 01:09 Toadesstern wrote:On January 24 2013 01:08 FiveTouch wrote:On January 24 2013 01:04 Vivax wrote:On January 24 2013 00:58 FiveTouch wrote:
[quote]
The irony of all your posts is that you basically refuse to comment on the player that I want to lynch (dude who killed mafia, just to remind you). This is about it:
[quote]
Why do you think you have the right to demand answers from others, when unwilling to provide opinions yourself on other cases? Or are you simply that much of an outrageous hypocrite?
I already said Oats is town. I said it when I read he's your bodyguard, I said the same about debears. Nothing has changed about that, go read. I'm not talking about why I think he's town. That's his own job. This is also in answer to Mocsta. Then you should tell me why you think my points on him being mafia are incorrect. Dispute what I've said if you disagree with it. want to talk about debears / oats? I'd like to hear your thoughts on what's more likely while trying to spam away terribads. How do you mean, what's more likely? well you're still alive, right? The problem is, you can't draw too much from it right now. I announced the bodyguards right at deadline. So: If 2 mafia are bodyguards and I'm shot, it outs 2 mafia If 0 mafia are bodyguards, they can't shoot me If 1 mafia is bodyguard, they still can't shoot me because they don't know the other bodyguard In every single scenario, mafia can't shoot me. yeah but clearly either mafia DID sub in 1 or 2 guys and came to the very same conclusion OR they didn't sub in which makes both town. If they came to the same conclusion I don't see a reason to sub in to begin with. Might as well just leave 2 townie as BGs and hope to hit some on the road when mafia can't hit us anyways (without saccing 2 people themselves). Just because I was musing. If Oats is town: There is a roughly 1/10 chance of Oatsmaster being randomly selected as bodyguard. If Oats is mafia: Is there a greater than 1/10 chance that Oatsmaster is put in as bodyguard? I would contend yes. I'm still under the assumption that both our elected folk are town. If that's the case, scumoats as a BG gives him a little bit of cover when he was under pressure D1 and would probably be under pressure D2. Mafia risks outing scum BGs ONLY if they want to kill FT/Toad before the bodyguards have been outed as mafia, and they gain some towncred for the mafia BGs so long as those two are alive. I don't see a lot of downside to scum BGs, or a scum BG, in that case. If your bodyguards live, that's a day or two holding onto 2 KP, and maybe you think being a BG gives them a better chance to survive than not-BG. If town still kills them, well, by installing mafia BG(s), you made it easier to shoot the elected folk. Regardless of any other strategy involved, installing mafia BG(s) just makes it easier to get at the officials, whether they out the BGs or not.
That sounds very reasonable to me. Nicely thought out conclusion, agree fully.
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Marshall Islands1474 Posts
On January 24 2013 02:12 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 02:04 FiveTouch wrote:On January 24 2013 01:22 Toadesstern wrote:On January 24 2013 01:19 FiveTouch wrote:On January 24 2013 01:14 Toadesstern wrote:On January 24 2013 01:13 FiveTouch wrote:On January 24 2013 01:09 Toadesstern wrote:On January 24 2013 01:08 FiveTouch wrote:On January 24 2013 01:04 Vivax wrote:On January 24 2013 00:58 FiveTouch wrote:
[quote]
The irony of all your posts is that you basically refuse to comment on the player that I want to lynch (dude who killed mafia, just to remind you). This is about it:
[quote]
Why do you think you have the right to demand answers from others, when unwilling to provide opinions yourself on other cases? Or are you simply that much of an outrageous hypocrite?
I already said Oats is town. I said it when I read he's your bodyguard, I said the same about debears. Nothing has changed about that, go read. I'm not talking about why I think he's town. That's his own job. This is also in answer to Mocsta. Then you should tell me why you think my points on him being mafia are incorrect. Dispute what I've said if you disagree with it. want to talk about debears / oats? I'd like to hear your thoughts on what's more likely while trying to spam away terribads. How do you mean, what's more likely? well you're still alive, right? The problem is, you can't draw too much from it right now. I announced the bodyguards right at deadline. So: If 2 mafia are bodyguards and I'm shot, it outs 2 mafia If 0 mafia are bodyguards, they can't shoot me If 1 mafia is bodyguard, they still can't shoot me because they don't know the other bodyguard In every single scenario, mafia can't shoot me. yeah but clearly either mafia DID sub in 1 or 2 guys and came to the very same conclusion OR they didn't sub in which makes both town. If they came to the same conclusion I don't see a reason to sub in to begin with. Might as well just leave 2 townie as BGs and hope to hit some on the road when mafia can't hit us anyways (without saccing 2 people themselves). Just because I was musing. If Oats is town: There is a roughly 1/10 chance of Oatsmaster being randomly selected as bodyguard. If Oats is mafia: Is there a greater than 1/10 chance that Oatsmaster is put in as bodyguard? I would contend yes. I'm still under the assumption that both our elected folk are town. If that's the case, scumoats as a BG gives him a little bit of cover when he was under pressure D1 and would probably be under pressure D2. Mafia risks outing scum BGs ONLY if they want to kill FT/Toad before the bodyguards have been outed as mafia, and they gain some towncred for the mafia BGs so long as those two are alive. I don't see a lot of downside to scum BGs, or a scum BG, in that case. If your bodyguards live, that's a day or two holding onto 2 KP, and maybe you think being a BG gives them a better chance to survive than not-BG. If town still kills them, well, by installing mafia BG(s), you made it easier to shoot the elected folk. Regardless of any other strategy involved, installing mafia BG(s) just makes it easier to get at the officials, whether they out the BGs or not.
Yes, this is how I interpret it to, and you worded quite well. If, for example, mafia consider they can't save Oatsmaster from the lynch because the mayor who just lynched mafia wants him dead, mafia may as well use the opportunity to get rid of a bodyguard for free.
Of course this doesn't have to be the case, but it's extremely plausible.
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On January 24 2013 02:12 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 02:07 Vivax wrote:
The huge CAPSLOCK parts you put in there also suggest you wanted to achieve some show/omg-effect by pointing out various things like that.
But you seem to not be too convinced yourself by these oh so thrilling revelations since you don't want to lynch him before annul.
Really bad acting there. You love delving into semantics dont you? Did you consider, CAPS LOCK is a lazy way to boldAnyways, i dont understand what your problem is? I was firm on Oatsmaster before reviewing Annul; I dislike Annul but we can only lynch one person a day. I still rate oatsmaster higher than Annul, so wheres the communication breakdown?
You mean the syntax, I think it's a relevant thing to pay attention to yes.
There is no particular problem, I just have the impression you're scum, that's all.
My points regarding gonzaw, Toad, yamato (didn't expand on him yet) and you stand now.
I don't want to lynch annul any more, I don't want to lynch Oats.
I am not very arsed to keep playing right now and I should study more anyway. Enjoy my absence for now, I'll be back to post some time before deadline.
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Just to be safe though:
The sheriff is able to send the PM during the night yes?
Can there be multiple mafia powerroles of one kind?
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EPT
