TL Mafia LIX - Page 84

Vivax

21767 Posts

January 23 2013 15:52 GMT

#1661

On January 24 2013 00:49 Mocsta wrote:
Toad/Vivax.

I know this is a lot of a non-vet to ask of vets, but can you please put your discussions on hold.

I feel like you two are discussing semantics - i am not saying the discussion is invalid or inappropriate.. just :

Concurrently we have a case mounting on Oats, based on facts in this game and meta from a game I just played with him.

I would really appreciate if you could share your thoughts on what FiveTouch and myself have raised over the past 2 pages.

Where's the analysis of gonzaw and Toad you promised?

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

January 23 2013 15:53 GMT

#1662

On January 24 2013 00:50 Oatsmaster wrote:
Cant a guy try to make a joke and be cute about it? Apparently not.

Anyway, gonna sleep now.
Vivax, please think before you post.

[Insult intended] Scum qt suggested that was the best course of action?

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

January 23 2013 15:55 GMT

#1663

On January 24 2013 00:52 Vivax wrote:

Show nested quote +

Where's the analysis of gonzaw and Toad you promised?

Now that Oats has conceded/gone to bed. I am about to read annul/gonzaw filter

(i dont remember saying i would read toads)

Still, I would appreciate your thoughts on Oats with what was presented.

P.S. I really meant no offence with my comments, just, i didn't want to detract from what I thought was solid evidence (and still do)

FiveTouch

Marshall Islands1474 Posts

January 23 2013 15:58 GMT

#1664

On January 24 2013 00:52 Vivax wrote:

Show nested quote +

Where's the analysis of gonzaw and Toad you promised?

The irony of all your posts is that you basically refuse to comment on the player that I want to lynch (dude who killed mafia, just to remind you). This is about it:

On January 23 2013 22:16 Vivax wrote:
Oats, you have this annoying habit of defending people when they should be talking.

Defend him with your vote and nothing else please, he's already secretive as of now.

Why do you think you have the right to demand answers from others, when unwilling to provide opinions yourself on other cases? Or are you simply that much of an outrageous hypocrite?

AxleGreaser

Australia1154 Posts

January 23 2013 16:00 GMT

#1665

Hey Toad.... Derp Me Its 3am and i woke saying Derp me.
This English may Derp me too, I will read it again tomorrow.
I thought I better post it before my derp China syndromed.

This post of Bugs
+ Show Spoiler +

On January 22 2013 17:54 DearestSnot wrote:
hey I'm not gonna be back till later tomorrow, gonna sleep soon.

Quick few things:

Toad, I assume you're jailing tonight. Consider jailing sandro.

Medics, consider protecting me. That is all I have to say for now.

Came before this of yours (which seemed Jokey)
+ Show Spoiler +

On January 22 2013 17:59 Toadesstern wrote:

Show nested quote +

I'm actually considering to do bullshit in 99% of the cases with my n1 jail for the 1% chance of MAJOR BIG PLAYS.

Sounds compelling to me.

And this from Vivax
+ Show Spoiler +

On January 22 2013 19:53 Vivax wrote:
Any protective roles should also take a shot at thinking about me. Most people think I'm town as of now, especially more influential ones, I see myself as quite endangered just cause of that.

They initially concerned me because of people doing exactly what you
said was daft and publicizing things in the thread. I know that is explicitly a bad plan
from watching noobies and listening to their coaching reviews etc.
It also looked a bit like people trying to manipulate the protections to suit their own agendas...
to be less than optimal when standard wisdom is what docs etc do is always best left to them...
Something was wrong I wanted to track down who was derping and why...
So I analysed those posts and tried to work which were fishing for tells on what would happen,
which were fishing to move the protections somewhere they were not needed,
basically it didn't make sense to do that. So I wanted to know why.

I found one, good explanation, when i realised the bugs proposal actually made statistical sense
on the basis of there being Docs and a Sherrif and the desire to keep the two protections in
disjoint groups to minimize wastage when they double protect players.
I had found an exception to the basic noob ethic of never tell anything about protects...
hence the more general never give out town reads....
That one idea made sense, the other things did not, and they looked variously meh.
While I didn't find nefarious people trying plausibly to mess with the protects....
I had found what looked like the advanced plan for complex setups... Oh well I am here to learn.

I then apparently tunneled that idea and saw only Fluff after that

I saw this, which you described as "doing the bullshit " rejected that as distractions.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17598786
Bugs said stop being silly.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17598956
You fluffed around with the BG ideas
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17599018

Finally by here
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17599294
you said
QUOTE]On January 23 2013 03:52 Toadesstern wrote:
....
On a sidenote for medics: Don't forget about gonzaw. That guy probably needs protection as well. So if you're a medic and don't know what to do, at least consider protecting WBG / Gonzaw / Sandro.
I'm not going to tell you my target.[/QUOTE]

and yeah by then i was so tunneled that Bugs had the plan and the rest was fluff suggestions that I thought I understood the game, then some how it didn't happen. Well it didn't happen because you said in the thread it would not happen.
Well more precisely you said, you wouldn't say what you were doing and that Docs had to cover the whole field too.

And yeah in bold by the guy with the role, said that so that trumps all.

And yeah it does not matter that if with docs and jailers you are better off statistically splitting the puddles to get fewer protection collisions, the guy with the role said he would....

So Derp me.

(BTW it is derp me but splitting the protects is statistically sound plan.. BTW.. It is just you guys did not do that.)
(How to know it is sound is consider how often or likely the protects are likely to collide under each scenario, where Sherrif Probably maybe protects Pick1 or others and Docs Probably maybe protects Pick2 or others.
As Pick1 and Pick2 are the clear favorites and they dont collide the actuall collisons when Sherrif and doc both choose to protect others and collide is small but collisions on the main two are eliminated.
Dont listen to me though WIFOM is a much better heuristic.

However while I worked some stuff out correctly (then tunneled) you did indeed do what you said you would

Derp me.

Vivax

21767 Posts

January 23 2013 16:04 GMT

#1666

On January 24 2013 00:58 FiveTouch wrote:

Show nested quote +

The irony of all your posts is that you basically refuse to comment on the player that I want to lynch (dude who killed mafia, just to remind you). This is about it:

Show nested quote +

Why do you think you have the right to demand answers from others, when unwilling to provide opinions yourself on other cases? Or are you simply that much of an outrageous hypocrite?

I already said Oats is town. I said it when I read he's your bodyguard, I said the same about debears. Nothing has changed about that, go read.
I'm not talking about why I think he's town. That's his own job.

This is also in answer to Mocsta.

austinmcc

United States6737 Posts

January 23 2013 16:04 GMT

#1667

Disclaimer, this is cobbled together over like 2 hours, so it's a bit disjointed and may not read well.

Here is a kitten
[image loading]

We/FiveTouch lynched scum D1. That is good. That is fantastic. We have some low/no-activity players, that is not good (and I've been one of them the last 24 hours). But that's also relatively normal for a large game.

We're in a good position. All of half the accusations have become super negative, and people are getting sucked in to responding to negativity with negativity. Be the kitten instead. The kitten is not negative.

If you're just SUSPICIOUS of someone, or less-sure than others about that person's townieness, that's fine. That's probably helpful, to just bring it up and challenge things. But if all you have is a suspicion, and you think it nearly impossible to lynch a person today (I'm thinking mainly Axle --> Toad here), watch that person, continue building your suspicion or let it drop, and eventually make a case. Everyone should know that Toad isn't confirmed, but he's neither confirmed town nor confirmed scum. Him not being confirmed isn't useful information, and while suspicion can be helpful it's NOT if you gum up the thread with it and it never gets anywhere. Wait, watch what he does, watch what others do, and if your suspicion turns into a legit scumread, make a case. Please?

ANNUL
If you don't want to waste energy defending yourself, fine. That's on you. But do you actually buy into the idea that a mafioso probably ran for mayor yesterday? Do you buy into BC balancing the game in terms of giving scum a solid vet? Posts like this - + Show Spoiler +

On January 23 2013 12:37 annul wrote:

Show nested quote +

(or toad. or even you.)

- COULD be useful, but instead they're just you snapping back at someone. If you agree with either of the ideas above though, that scum has one of the super veteran-y players or that scum ran for mayor, would you care to narrow the options down at all? It'd be much more helpful, and something for us to use IF you get lynched today AND you flip town, rather than you just sniping back at people who have voted you.

NINJAVOTERS
Is nobody else concerned with the rush of ninja voting we had?

On January 23 2013 10:42 debears wrote:
Btw, I say we take the focus of oats and me for today. I'll get nked tomorrow. If Oats is town he will too.

##vote annul
##vote double lynch

Debears previous mentions of annul - 0
Debears previous mentions of oats - 0 (Although they both just got outed as bodyguards so i can understand that)
Debears previous mentions of double lynches - 0
Why are you voting for a double lynch?

On January 23 2013 10:52 AxleGreaser wrote:
##vote: Double Lynch
Which means for those that claim dont read the OP that we Lynch two tomorrow. D3

Why are you voting for a double lynch?

On January 23 2013 10:53 grush57 wrote:
##Vote: Double Lynch

Why are you voting for a double lynch? (Although you didn't in the voting thread)

On January 23 2013 10:55 Oatsmaster wrote:
##Vote: Double Lynch

Why are you voting for a double lynch?

On January 23 2013 16:29 Mocsta wrote:
Day2
##Vote:Double Lynch

Why are you voting for a double lynch? (This vote was voting thread only)

I didn't snip anything from those posts. That's the entirety of those votes. Within a span of 15 minutes, we had 4 people vote for a double lynch without ever having mentioned the idea beforehand. One of those guys also voted for annul without ever mentioned him beforehand.

I'm not as caught up on specific people or mini-threads that are going on to want to comment on that stuff. I thought Gonzaw was town D1. I'll reread him. Bugs I was worried about you for a while, but (VAGUE STATEMENT ALERT) I've found your posts today to be NOT getting as caught up in some of the sideshow and more towards moving in on scumreads of yours, which really says town to me when the thread has gotten kind of bogged down.

But despite not being caught up, there's stuff that we're missing because people are zeroing in on a certain read and just going crazy. LOOK AT ALL THOSE NINJAVOTES. The first 4 in a tiny time period. Smells to me like there could be a nervous scum in there who threw his vote in with the rest of the pile. I don't even care that it's just votes for double lynches, I don't like that people are voting for that without seeming to give it any thought at all. Do they have two candidates they want lynched? Do they think they will? Do they think a double lynch will always be useful? Are they certain FT is town, and so want as many lynches in while we've got bonus mayoral votes? We don't know! We have no idea why some of the double lynch votes are coming in. And that's no bueno.

yamato77

11589 Posts

January 23 2013 16:04 GMT

#1668

On January 23 2013 21:18 Vivax wrote:
I'm not calling you retard. I'm calling you scum.

You didn't save the guy you consider to be the best townie in this game to jail whom? Bugs? I'm not buying it. That isn't solid play and doesn't align with your view on sandro.
If I think you're scum then it's cause I would expect a higher standard from you as town.

Scum hit 3/3 despite the huge insecurities in play. Especially the hit on sandroba was super risky. If they took that risk they should have taken the risk of hitting Bugs just to be sure, but they didn't. They went in precisely like a swiss clock.

They took two players that weren't particularly threatening for them and that weren't particularly threatened by a lynch.

Spit out who you are masoning this cycle.

Wow. Just, wow.

Why is there suddenly a push from Vivax right now to discredit Toad?

Why does Vivax want to call Toad mafia today for these terrible reasons?

Why does Vivax awnt to ignore our basically confirmed-town mayor?

Why does Vivax wwant to muddy the waters with his Gonzaw/Toad/Oats association bullshit?

This guy is playing disruption today. Lynch him over Annul, for justice.

FiveTouch

Marshall Islands1474 Posts

January 23 2013 16:08 GMT

#1669

On January 24 2013 01:04 Vivax wrote:

Show nested quote +

Then you should tell me why you think my points on him being mafia are incorrect. Dispute what I've said if you disagree with it.

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

January 23 2013 16:08 GMT

#1670

On January 24 2013 01:04 Vivax wrote:
I already said Oats is town. I said it when I read he's your bodyguard, I said the same about debears. Nothing has changed about that, go read.
I'm not talking about why I think he's town. That's his own job.

This is also in answer to Mocsta.

Vivax, with respect I dont agree with what you just said (not the oatsmaster part).

The way you phrased your answer, its as if, you think oats is town and have not not read the points raised.

If you have indeed read the points raised, can you please point out the flaws in my logic. At least that way i can better focus my scum hunting, and as town we all want that - right?

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

January 23 2013 16:08 GMT

#1671

ninja'd

Toadesstern

Germany16350 Posts

January 23 2013 16:09 GMT

#1672

On January 24 2013 01:08 FiveTouch wrote:

Show nested quote +

Then you should tell me why you think my points on him being mafia are incorrect. Dispute what I've said if you disagree with it.

want to talk about debears / oats?
I'd like to hear your thoughts on what's more likely while trying to spam away terribads.

debears

United States2516 Posts

January 23 2013 16:11 GMT

#1673

Vivax, in one night you do a complete 180 on two reads for no reason whatsoever

+ Show Spoiler +

On January 22 2013 01:23 Vivax wrote:
I don't care if the elected roles are smurf, they have to be vets, and they have to be trustworthy.

Gonzaw isn't trustworthy for shoveling shit at me for being absent after my candidacy like JX did + trying to be overly politically correct to everyone.

austin isn't trustworthy for using artificial reasons to defend JX and picking stutters as lynch candidate.

Austin used the argument: "Slight paranoia is townie" cause he wrote something about a Toad jester. Austin clearly didn't give a shit about JXs alignment from the start. That's my interpretation. FT already pointed out that this was a mistake.

Seriously, stay the fuck away from gonzaw and austin. I'd rather have Chezinu mayor than these two.

On January 21 2013 09:03 Vivax wrote:
## Vote Sandroba

If he's town, he won't be killed and be of great use.

If he's scum, he won't be able to hide it for long in that position.

Don't choose based on some mood. Even if sandro doesn't want it, a good town should want him in that position.

I don't like austin, I don't like gonzaw. Clarity didn't post his reads and he's usually not the guy who wants to take the lead. Voting Chezinu, are you fucking kidding me?Oatsmaster? Nah.

On January 22 2013 01:55 Vivax wrote:
FT for mayor, that's out of discussion. Screw austin and gonzaw, they have to stay in put positions.

Just make me his second hand and this town is set for victory.

On January 22 2013 06:46 Vivax wrote:
You all (debears, mkfuba, austin) must be really super-convinced that austin and JX are town if you flak me like that for a tentative scum read.

What exactly do you want me to do? Isn't it electing austin? To lynch whom? Stutters for playing like I know him from D1? No thanks.

Look, I find people suspicious who shovelled shit at me for my absence.
I find people super suspicious who instead of posting their reasoning about it (like gonzaw did=semi-admitting that it wasn't a good point and in the end null cause I was sleeping)

write that they had a reason to do so cause of some outer reason that has nothing to do with their thinking (the US tag), which then turns out to be wrong.

When called out for it, they don't answer.

Tell me, wouldn't you suspect scum behind it? You seem to be really convinced that he is town.

On January 23 2013 20:33 Vivax wrote:
Use something in your argumentation to say that you think gonzaw and annul are scum besides this mayor thing please.

You say: "I think one and only one is scum among the mayor candidates, gonzaw and annul are probably scum cause everyone else I have a town read on."

On January 23 2013 23:07 Vivax wrote:
[22.01.2013 19:17:49] Erik: yeah I agree
[22.01.2013 19:17:56] Erik: I'd like annul lynch the most
[22.01.2013 19:18:04] Erik: and a bunch oats has done recently looks townisch
[22.01.2013 19:18:07] Erik: *townish
[22.01.2013 19:18:18] Erik: I really don't see him pushing gonzaw out of all the people if he's mafia

Strange things to say considering your latest insecurity about who to lynch first between annul and gonzaw when asked.
Care to tell us why Oats is town for pushing gonzaw?

[22.01.2013 19:28:09] Erik: the way it's worded I can't jail before n2...
[22.01.2013 19:28:11] Erik: "You are able to PM me during the day with a player to be incarcerated that night."
[22.01.2013 19:28:27] Erik: if I have to pm him during the day I can't pm him before d2 for the n2 protections

What did BC respond to this?

Although he probably let Toad jail nonetheless.

So you thought Gonzaw was scum all day 1 and suddenly change your viewpoint and think he's town for no reason? And you suddenly get on everyone's case about voting gonzaw?

+ Show Spoiler +

On January 21 2013 22:20 Vivax wrote:
@ Yamato

Dude, if you are town (which I kinda doubt cause you promised self-improvement last time I saw you somewhere else):

You have 4 pages of filter of which a lot of posts are aggressive, low content spam.
You aren't achieving anything but calling candidates bad without pushing your own preferences.
Your posts aren't consolidated, and you disregard the opinions of 4 vets. In light of your overconfidence you are aware of you should actually use them properly.

@ debears

Me and Toad aren't the scum you're looking for. Yamato might be but it's still early. Djo is..an interesting choice.
I like your play so far. Don't underestimate me in this game though, I'm asking you to vote me into a seat.

@ gonzaw

There are questions directed at you in my filter that you still have to answer.
I don't care if you think I'm town, I'm not voting for you. And I know you won't be voting for me.

@ Toad

I really appreciate your contributions in the latest pages that appeared since I posted last. Knowing that you support me and FT, I can trust into you being working for town.
I would appreciate however if you didn't refer to me as stupid or idiot.
You never know who's sitting behind the keyboard, and you don't take into account how fast I can improve.
I think my strategies and reads have improved a lot lately. I don't have as much experience as others in this forum, don't draw conclusions about my intelligence or ability to learn then.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________

Regarding the discussion about my candidacy post: It was a good way to waste time in the last pages.
If you want to know, I started writing that post after I got my role pm.
But I can't prove it and it doesn't even matter. Look at my other play.
How I push my candidacy doesn't matter either. You know I want to be elected, and when I don't constantly spam that it doesn't mean I don't want it any more.

I pressured JX, Djo, gonzaw and yamato into giving out information in a way that breaks their usual posting style. Specific information.

I managed to get yamato very worked up to the point where he started replying in a subjectively quite scummy way.
Same goes for JX who replied to me with rather big delays, compared to the content he posted in that long time he needed to make the posts.

I am working pro-information, and I'm not sticking endlessly to the same target. I'm active, and I post transparently. Although I'm not giving you out all my reads, yet.

You will absolutely not regret me being elected.

On January 21 2013 22:20 Vivax wrote:
@ Yamato

Dude, if you are town (which I kinda doubt cause you promised self-improvement last time I saw you somewhere else):

You have 4 pages of filter of which a lot of posts are aggressive, low content spam.
You aren't achieving anything but calling candidates bad without pushing your own preferences.
Your posts aren't consolidated, and you disregard the opinions of 4 vets. In light of your overconfidence you are aware of you should actually use them properly.

@ debears

Me and Toad aren't the scum you're looking for. Yamato might be but it's still early. Djo is..an interesting choice.
I like your play so far. Don't underestimate me in this game though, I'm asking you to vote me into a seat.

@ gonzaw

There are questions directed at you in my filter that you still have to answer.
I don't care if you think I'm town, I'm not voting for you. And I know you won't be voting for me.

@ Toad

I really appreciate your contributions in the latest pages that appeared since I posted last. Knowing that you support me and FT, I can trust into you being working for town.
I would appreciate however if you didn't refer to me as stupid or idiot.
You never know who's sitting behind the keyboard, and you don't take into account how fast I can improve.
I think my strategies and reads have improved a lot lately. I don't have as much experience as others in this forum, don't draw conclusions about my intelligence or ability to learn then.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________

Regarding the discussion about my candidacy post: It was a good way to waste time in the last pages.
If you want to know, I started writing that post after I got my role pm.
But I can't prove it and it doesn't even matter. Look at my other play.
How I push my candidacy doesn't matter either. You know I want to be elected, and when I don't constantly spam that it doesn't mean I don't want it any more.

I pressured JX, Djo, gonzaw and yamato into giving out information in a way that breaks their usual posting style. Specific information.

I managed to get yamato very worked up to the point where he started replying in a subjectively quite scummy way.
Same goes for JX who replied to me with rather big delays, compared to the content he posted in that long time he needed to make the posts.

I am working pro-information, and I'm not sticking endlessly to the same target. I'm active, and I post transparently. Although I'm not giving you out all my reads, yet.

You will absolutely not regret me being elected.

On January 21 2013 23:06 Vivax wrote:
@ Yamato

Then I assume, since me and Toad are probably not going to get lynched today, that you will vote for the candidate that lynches Djo?

@ Oatsmaster

Would you support me/Toad/Sandro as elected role?
If FT stops wanting to lynch you, will you support him?
______________________________________________________________________________________________________

After looking at his meta, I support a prplhz lynch as well.

I especially looked at his town meta:

Looney lynching - town

→ More outspoken, more active, doesn't act as much as like he's not giving fuck as he does in this game.

Rockband Mini - town

→ Shares reads very early, opposes random lynching (here he asks for Chez lynch immediately).
Doesn't act like he doesn't give a fuck (as here). Significantly becomes more active when his mislynch is gaining steam. He posts a lot with not much time difference between the posts.

On January 22 2013 06:22 Vivax wrote:
Toad, I think it's of vital importance that austin doesn't get a seat. If there is no extra supporter to elect you Chezinu is my next favourite over austin.

On January 22 2013 07:00 Vivax wrote:
Chez you made me laugh a good portion.

I'm voting Toad if we can manage to get him into that position though. Sorry bro

On January 22 2013 10:01 Vivax wrote:
GET TOAD ELECTED FFS

And then you do a complete 180 on toad for no reason

[image loading]

FiveTouch

Marshall Islands1474 Posts

January 23 2013 16:13 GMT

#1674

On January 24 2013 01:09 Toadesstern wrote:

Show nested quote +

want to talk about debears / oats?
I'd like to hear your thoughts on what's more likely while trying to spam away terribads.

How do you mean, what's more likely?

Toadesstern

Germany16350 Posts

January 23 2013 16:14 GMT

#1675

On January 24 2013 01:13 FiveTouch wrote:

Show nested quote +

How do you mean, what's more likely?

well you're still alive, right?

Toadesstern

Germany16350 Posts

January 23 2013 16:18 GMT

#1676

On January 24 2013 01:14 Toadesstern wrote:

Show nested quote +

well you're still alive, right?

So obviously debears has to be almost confirmed town to you given your read on oats.
Do you think it's more likely that it's 2 townies or 1/1 ? 0/2 is almost certainly not the case as you're still alive.

FiveTouch

Marshall Islands1474 Posts

January 23 2013 16:19 GMT

#1677

On January 24 2013 01:14 Toadesstern wrote:

Show nested quote +

well you're still alive, right?

The problem is, you can't draw too much from it right now. I announced the bodyguards right at deadline. So:

If 2 mafia are bodyguards and I'm shot, it outs 2 mafia
If 0 mafia are bodyguards, they can't shoot me
If 1 mafia is bodyguard, they still can't shoot me because they don't know the other bodyguard

In every single scenario, mafia can't shoot me.

Toadesstern

Germany16350 Posts

January 23 2013 16:20 GMT

#1678

On January 24 2013 01:18 Toadesstern wrote:

Show nested quote +

I mean, we need to talk about something, right now so might as well talk about that

AxleGreaser

Australia1154 Posts

January 23 2013 16:20 GMT

#1679

On January 24 2013 01:04 austinmcc wrote:
Disclaimer, this is cobbled together over like 2 hours, so it's a bit disjointed and may not read well.

Show nested quote +

Why are you voting for a double lynch?

IIRC correctly i was already voting for it so that I was not just piling on the annul so real fast wagon...
A while later I said something specific about the annul wagon
The double Lynch seemed self evident.
I pointed out when it would happen which is the following day.

I had considered at some stage if delaying it one day might better as the reads get better out there
However consecutive double Lynches D3 andD4 looked fairly reasonable and it easier to slow
down by going D3 D5, if you find you need the time than to speed up.

It just looked right?

debears

United States2516 Posts

January 23 2013 16:21 GMT

#1680

Fivetouch and toad will live another night. I can guarantee that.

Can't say the same for myself

Prev 1 82 83 84 85 86 213 Next

Please or register to reply.

TL Mafia LIX - Page 84

Completed

Ongoing

Upcoming