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On January 31 2013 14:24 cDgCorazon wrote:
I'm pretty sure XXXIII meant not making associated cases based on information from flips.
+ Show Spoiler +On December 31 2012 09:59 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2012 09:52 Chromatically wrote:
So Hapa, tell me again: should I make association cases before the lynch? Nope! Haha, glad you learned something from our PM's. A couple of townies were trying to put together scumteams, and I think that's a pretty faulty way of playing. Your job is to lynch the scummiest player, and then make the associations. Association cases can catch really straighforward scum plans, but against any decent scumteam, such cases are worthless. For example, I just finished a game (Witchcraft Mafia) where two scum members spent most of the game double-bussing each other. On December 31 2012 10:01 Dandel Ion wrote:
Lists and association cases are the evil we try to erase during the newbie games.
They are the metascum of new players.
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On January 31 2013 14:05 cDgCorazon wrote:
For the rest of you, you should've called out the WIFOM in the case. Sn0 was the only one who managed to do so. You guys need to analyze these cases and make better decisions based on them.
In case it isn't clear, I thought the cases behind both wagons were weak sauce built upon too much WIFOM and OMGUS:
On January 31 2013 09:53 cakepie wrote:
I think you're all barking up the wrong trees based on perceived poor play, aggressive play, WIFOM, and some OMGUS.
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On January 31 2013 14:26 cDgCorazon wrote:
I love how cake just told me to not make association cases, and you just said "cora/sno scum team".
I want to hear Zare's response to this before I decide if he's scum or not. You know, giving people a chance to defend themselves...
Apparently, OMGUS is not the only mafia terminology you're not familiar with. Association before flip means accusing B of being scum because you think A is scum. The reason you don't vote like this is because if you think A is scum in the first place, then you should vote for A (it's implied that your scum read on A is based on evidence, obviously).
This is not what I'm doing. I'm not sure of either of you or sno's alignment. All I know is that with the way both of you have played so far:
If you are scum then Sn0 is 100% scum.
If you are town, then Sn0 is null
If Sn0 is town, then you are 100% town.
If Sn0 is scum, then you are null
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I left right when the wagon on me was growing. I wasn't sure if it was going to be me dead or not. I knew that lynching me was going be useless, and if I didn't defend myself I would've been lynched for sure. None of you looked at this post:
On January 31 2013 08:29 cDgCorazon wrote:
Zare, did you even think that scum could have taken that same thing into account and attacked you to paint me in a bad light? Imagine if you had died and flipped town. Someone else would have made the same connection as you and I would have been lynched without a doubt.
I truly think that WB is bad town, and that Acid is scum. I've laid out all of my cards on the table.
I hate to set off the WIFOM bombs, but Zare was the one who forced me to.
As I told Acid, I did not set up the WB v Acid lynch decision. I was trying to prevent it. It's their stubbornness that has caused this to be the focus of D2. It was nothing by my doing.
It's also funny how you made a case against me 90 minutes before the lynch deadline, and only used information stemming from 12 hours ago and earlier. Pretty amazing.
Perhaps if you all took me seriously and listened to me, stopping misquoting me or twisting my words, perhaps I would've not done some ridiculously stupid. Zare's case was good enough for WB (any wagon besides his was good enough) to sheep with him and make me panic. Had Zare not made a case, WB would not have sheeped, and I wouldn't have panicked and OMGUSed.
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Again, you're the only one responsible for your own vote and "doing anything not to die" is not the way to play a town game. Stop playing the victim and do some actual scumhunting.
Again, Zare is confirmed town now that we know warbaby was telling the truth, so get off his case and find a real scum to lynch for tomorrow.
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On January 31 2013 14:42 Acid~ wrote:
Again, you're the only one responsible for your own vote and "doing anything not to die" is not the way to play a town game. Stop playing the victim and do some actual scumhunting.
Again, Zare is confirmed town now that we know warbaby was telling the truth, so get off his case and find a real scum to lynch for tomorrow.
I'm pretty sure I've done more scumhunting than you have. You've been sitting on your butt for 100% of D1 and 98% of D2.
I wasn't going to let Zare get away with blaming me for WB's death. That's why I made the rebuttal.
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On January 31 2013 14:44 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 14:42 Acid~ wrote:
Again, you're the only one responsible for your own vote and "doing anything not to die" is not the way to play a town game. Stop playing the victim and do some actual scumhunting.
Again, Zare is confirmed town now that we know warbaby was telling the truth, so get off his case and find a real scum to lynch for tomorrow. I'm pretty sure I've done more scumhunting than you have. You've been sitting on your butt for 100% of D1 and 98% of D2. I wasn't going to let Zare get away with blaming me for WB's death. That's why I made the rebuttal.
Day 1 or day 2 are in the past and you won't pull me into another shit-flinging fest.
This is night 3 and right now at this moment in time I'm the one doing the hunting, so start contributing.
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EBWOP: right now is night 2, I think.
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On January 31 2013 14:42 Acid~ wrote:
Again, Zare is confirmed town now that we know warbaby was telling the truth
Well, not exactly, seeing as Zare himself raised this:
On January 31 2013 11:58 zarepath wrote:
If there is a JK, they NEED to role claim. It means that Sn0_Man was lying.
On January 31 2013 12:00 cakepie wrote:
Plus JK's N1 target who failed to report being blocked.
Of course, a JK is quite implausible at this point given what has happened.
A JK roleclaim at this juncture would need to:
- justify not claiming on D2 in response to the presence of two other roleclaims (wait-and-see, perhaps? but such a player should have pounced upon Sn0 immediately after warbaby's flip)
- provide a plausible N1 action
The implications of a true JK roleclaim are that:
- Sn0 is lying about being a cop
- someone did not declare that they were roleblocked N1.
- zare is not confirmed town, as N1 no kill could have been due to JK and not doc
We of course also have to consider that the JK claim could be a fake claim as part of a gambit by scum to discredit Sn0, and by association, Cora (although logically speaking, null). It would be an incredibly risky move.
For the record, acid, cora, zare and myself have posted without claiming JK.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On January 31 2013 12:34 cakepie wrote:
Is it kosher to post an encrypted message and supply the key for decoding later on?
No, don't do this.
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The reason I am so concerned about there being a JK is how incredibly scummy Sn0 and Cora would look without the uncontested cop claim. I don't understand why Corazon would claim that I made him mislynch a claimed medic and consider me the first target after D2, but not the other two people who voted for the claimed medic that aren't confirmed by the cop.
How is glurio not the number one scum read at this point, assuming Sn0/Cora are town? Especially if you ARE Cora, you should assume that the other two people voting for the claimed medic and refusing to switch were scum-motivated. Especially considering that the medic already stole one kill from scum, then they can get a free cop at night... why wouldn't they ensure the medic kill?
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On January 31 2013 14:44 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 14:42 Acid~ wrote:
Again, you're the only one responsible for your own vote and "doing anything not to die" is not the way to play a town game. Stop playing the victim and do some actual scumhunting.
Again, Zare is confirmed town now that we know warbaby was telling the truth, so get off his case and find a real scum to lynch for tomorrow. I'm pretty sure I've done more scumhunting than you have. You've been sitting on your butt for 100% of D1 and 98% of D2. I wasn't going to let Zare get away with blaming me for WB's death. That's why I made the rebuttal.
When did I blame you for WB's death? You certainly have to take some blame for it, of course. But I don't see it as a scum tell because you're cop-confirmed.
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On January 31 2013 14:05 cDgCorazon wrote:I'm sorry Zare, but this post of yours disturbs me. Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 12:03 zarepath wrote:
Glurio looks scummiest right now -- I have no idea why Cora and Sn0 parked their votes thusly, but Glurio isn't "confirmed town" by Sn0's uncontested cop claim.
I'm referring to how Cora and Sn0 are "confirmed town" by Sn0's uncontested cop claim, but Glurio ISN'T. I am still not entirely certain about Sn0's cop claim, but if you assume its truth, then Glurio looks the scummiest. It's pretty straightforward.
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I didn't mean for it to be a "Zare is scum" move. I wanted it to be a wake up call for you.
I'm really busy today guys, but I already drafted up some thoughts. Idk the chances of me dying tonight (probably low), but I don't want to risk anything. You'll hear my thoughts about 2 and a half hours before the deadline.
I don't think you should assume Sn0's cop claim is true until everyone has posted and we get no claims of being roleblocked or counter-claims (which should not come until D3 if you're going to counter-claim).
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There are currently 7 living players:
Zare
Cake
Sn0
Acid
Cora
Slay
Glurio
Of these, 3 are confirmed town: Me, Cora, Zare (as awkward as that is).
Then, Slayalot can *only* be scum if glurio also is (since him being scum means the whole wagon on him was town I assume).
Then we have Cake/Glurio (who have minimal contributions to their names) and Acid, whose play was awful right up to ~2hours to lynch yesterday, when he completely changed.
The history of those 4 players, their interactions etc is what I will be reviewing today.
Keep in mind that at 7 survivors, 6 after NK tonight, 5 after lynch tomorrow, 4 after NK tomorrow, we MUST get a scum in that time or else they win. The only other option is to vote no-lynch tomorrow to reduce it to 5 after 2 NKs but that is only marginally helpful, since It isn't hard to determine the 5 survivors (only 1 will be me/cora/zare, our confirmed town, anyway).
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On January 31 2013 14:05 cDgCorazon wrote:
Basically, this case is all speculation and WIFOM. He believes that because I thought he was being a good town, I decided to kill him. He goes on to say that I cause Warbaby to think that Zarepath was a good town target.
The first problem is here. If I am scum and secretly thought that Zarepath was a good town, I would not have said it out loud. He's basically saying that I was trying to attack the doctor to attack Zarepath, and then attack Zarepath. That is such a stupid strategy that there's no way it could have worked. He's assuming I'm bad scum, which is absolutely stupid.
He goes on to say that I was trying to get everyone to lynch Warbaby. If that was so, why did I not vote for WB over Acid in the first place? It's just more speculation and confirmation bias.
Others have addressed the oddity of your focus, but I will address your concerns.
I did not believe that because you thought I was being good town, you decided to kill me. My case was that after FAILING to kill me, you went out of your way to soft town read me so that whoever saved me would not think you're scum.
I wasn't saying that you were trying to attack the doctor to attack me; I was saying that scum would always want to attack the doctor to attack ANYONE. It's not about me; it's about what I think scum would do.
If scum wanted everyone to mislynch a medic, it would be better for them to not be the first person to vote for them. Ideally, for scum, they bring up the idea and everyone else votes for it, and they manage to avoid all responsibility for the mislynch. This is how I read your interactions with warbaby -- riling him up, mocking him, but then claiming he's bad town but still not objecting strongly when others wanted to lynch him.
I can understand how my points may have come off differently in the chaos of last night -- I was typing with my son on my lap and didn't really present much nuance or structure to my arguments. But I think you've misconceived my arguments and wanted to set it straight.
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On February 01 2013 00:25 Sn0_Man wrote:
Of these, 3 are confirmed town: Me, Cora, Zare (as awkward as that is).
Good list, but bear with me for a second -- what awkwardness do you mean?
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On February 01 2013 00:31 zarepath wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 00:25 Sn0_Man wrote:
Of these, 3 are confirmed town: Me, Cora, Zare (as awkward as that is).
Good list, but bear with me for a second -- what awkwardness do you mean?
Most of my confirmed town list spent the last lynch spewing hate and vitriol at each other...
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On February 01 2013 00:35 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 00:31 zarepath wrote:On February 01 2013 00:25 Sn0_Man wrote:
Of these, 3 are confirmed town: Me, Cora, Zare (as awkward as that is).
Good list, but bear with me for a second -- what awkwardness do you mean? Most of my confirmed town list spent the last lynch spewing hate and vitriol at each other...
Plus you and cora still hate each other rofl.
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Basically, its now up to Cakepie, Slay and Glurio to step up and contribute or else we are stuck with just a shot in the dark at them/acid. Which is 50/50 odds, but I don't like 50/50 odds. I wanna nail scum.
The worst part of this is how badly we have botched what is IMO the strongest possible town setup. (Currently I'm mad at cora for playing so scummy I had to save his ass plus he is so scummy it makes my claim look dubious... T_T)
After poking through filters, Slay says nothing (duh), Glurio says nothing (even less than I thought he did, actually), and Cakepie is pretty new.
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EPT
