|
Yeah, acid has it right.
Apart from having the most posts, the biggest parallel between warbaby and mocsta is their desperate need to be perceived as scumhunting, and their penchant for counter-attacking those who dare question their posts or motives.
Warbaby trumpets his scumhunting, without doing any. It is all about him, and any questioning of that results in "YOU DISAGREE WITH ME, THEREFORE YOU HATE SCUMHUNTING AND LOVE SCUM".
I still find it somehow believable that he is a poor, misguided townie. As I did with mocsta. I'm certifiably awful at this game
|
On January 29 2013 20:15 zarepath wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 15:30 warbaby wrote:On January 29 2013 14:09 cDgCorazon wrote:By voting, you are saying you want to lynch him today. Saying it 10 minutes into D2 is throwing in the towel. OK, fine. I can't come up with any reason you're wrong about this. I don't currently think Zare is scum, and he's telling me to do this as well. Noted.... I'll be looking through filters today between tasks at work, everybody's filter but warbaby for now. We are very focused on him right now as a town (not necessarily undeservedly) and I worry that too many are getting by without contributing because of that.
Sure, but in the main they haven't contributed anyway. At this point, I've pretty much decided, we are lynching warbaby if I can make it happen today. I'm sure I can be convinced otherwise but at this point I don't see what evidence is really gonna come up that is worse than warbaby's play.
What I would like to discuss right now is the night action. Remember that NOBODY DIED last night. The scenarios that I can think of for that are:
A) Mafia shit the bed (pretty unlikely given that they have a coach), B) Both mafia members are/were inactive (Cakepie... ) C) Town has a JailKeeper/Doctor who is a clairvoyant (this one seems the most likely).
In the case of C, however, there is an interesting distinction between having a JK and a Doc. If we have a Doc, they have a confirmed townie on their hands, although that isn't necessarily that helpful. If we have a JK, then they know that their target is EITHER mafia OR the mafia target last night. But they can't be certain which. That again is interesting.
I don't think B) could happen either, since Cakepie is the only TRULY afk player over the course of all of Night 1... although if anybody can come up with a plausible scumteam that was simply afk all night 1 I'm listening.
|
And warbaby's case against Acid basically comes down to "He isn't checking back every hour posting pointless responses to my inane accusations. CLEARLY SCUM"
Admittedly, it would be nice to see consistent contribution with wide-ranging analysis from, well, everybody, but some people have other obligations.
Still kinda waiting on the big "I'm here" post from Cakepie. Having 0 posts (worth mentioning) between you and your predecessor is not a good pedigree.
|
On January 30 2013 01:55 warbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 00:34 Sn0_Man wrote: Admittedly, it would be nice to see consistent contribution with wide-ranging analysis from, well, everybody, but some people have other obligations. Having other obligations (SlayAlot) is different from being warned for playing the game improperly (Acid~). Acid~ has still not explained why he signed up for this game knowing he had 24 hour work shifts coming up, or why he thinks this is OK.
Apart from the fallacy of your logic,
What does that have to do with being scum? Pretend that Acid is this horrible guy that you make him out to be. He signed up without sufficient time to really participate. What makes that scummy? Keep in mind that he certainly didn't know alignment before he signed up...
You just need ways to attack the guys you don't like, the guys who are willing to challenge you.
|
On January 30 2013 02:04 warbaby wrote: If the blue is doc, should they claim? I believe accepted theory in these games is that blues only claim when they are a) up for mislynch or b) in a MYLO/LYLO situation. I'm not sure I 100% agree with the theory, but I believe that is it.
On January 30 2013 02:04 warbaby wrote: I don't think it was clairvoyant that nobody died N1 (and I think you sound like a sadscum by saying this), I think it was just damned lucky. Probably won't happen again, and there's a chance the Doc (if there is one) will be killed before they can do anything more useful.
Clairvoyant, as a term, has its roots in french. Clair = clear, Voyant = seeing. Together, they are "Clear-seeing". The connotation is generally associated with future-sight. I'd say clairvoyant is a pretty good way to describe our Doc/JK after they successfully saved a townie (or blocked the mafia performing the KP, either or). They saw through the situation clearly, and predicted who was gonna get hit (or in the case of a JK, they may have predicted who is mafia). Obviously the chances of pulling it off again are not that high, but everybody knows that.
Baseless accusations that I "sound like sadscum" are somewhat interesting, but they only help town by demonstrating your scumminess really.
Either way, I really wish PM's were allowed in this game
Still waiting on something (anything) from Cakepie
|
On January 30 2013 02:26 warbaby wrote: I don't believe in the supernatural, so I simply can't accept your claim of clairvoyance. ???
I didn't say the blue did some voodoo ritual to divine who they should target...
I said the blue had "clear view", that they saw through the situation and acted accordingly.
Please tell me you guys see this shit he's pulling as scummy? Trying to associate my arguments with belief in the supernatural, saying that being impressed with the save makes me sound like sadscum, I mean come on.
##Vote: warbaby
I want this vote down and ready. As of now, the onus is on YOU (warbaby) to either a) prove your innocence or b) demonstrate extremely convincingly why somebody who is NOT you is scum.
|
On January 30 2013 03:44 warbaby wrote: You're asking me to make a case against someone other than Acid~. Since I will immediately be accused of OMGUS if I make a case on you, Sn0_man (who I currently claim is my #2 scum read), I guess that leaves Glurio.
Not quite true but OK. All you have to do is convince me to vote for somebody else. I've heard your arguments on your "#1 scum read" Acid. Feel free to keep banging away but so far it isn't convincing me of anything beyond your scumminess. If you wish to attempt to convince me that I am scum, feel free. I expect it would be about as effective as anything else you are gonna try.
On January 30 2013 02:38 Sn0_Man wrote: As of now, the onus is on YOU (warbaby) to ... demonstrate extremely convincingly why somebody who is NOT you is scum.
I'm interested to hear your take on glurio though. I thought that his play this game is much like his play last game: lurky, low contribution, but kinda excited to be playing and just not too familiar with how he should act. Seemed pretty townie to me in that light, but by all means show me what he has done that is scum-motivated.
One thing to clear up, and this is directed at ALL PLAYERS: just because somebody hasn't posted as much as you want them to, doesn't make them scum. It isn't "scummy" to disappear for 12+ hours. Admittedly, it isn't helping town, but this is a newbie game and there are many players that simply won't put the time in. If you wish to argue that "person X" is abusing this fact, demonstrate exactly how their actions are scum motivated and how the answers that they HAVE provided are crafted from a scum perspective.
Lynching lurkers incessantly is not at all a surefire way to get scum.
|
On January 30 2013 04:15 warbaby wrote: EBWOP: Glurio's level of contribution is ONLY going to hinder other towns from making a read on glurio.
Scumslip. You know he's town, proven by the phrase "other towns". The fact that you a) have this info and b) are still making an argument against him... yeah.
Nice one.
|
On January 30 2013 04:13 warbaby wrote:it's hypocritical for Sn0 criticize me for tunneling at the same time.
I also don't think I've ever even mentioned you tunnelling, much less criticized you for it, so putting that in your post was pretty unnecessary.
Either way, all this flailing about isn't helping you.
I just wish we had more people around posting.
|
Yay a post.
First off, I'm 90% sure that jailkeeping never results in notifications of any sort, (that includes roleblock notifications) but I could be wrong. It isn't too specific in the OP.
Next, a scum role-cop isn't really affecting our play at all. They may hit, they may miss, we can't do much about it. Honestly, I think that its in their best interest to just NK anybody they suspect of being blue over role-copping them so...
I wasn't blaming you for being AFK, I was merely going over the possibility of the scum team actually just not being present as an explanation of the no-kill night. And then asserting that since only one person wasn't here, at least one scum was present to submit a night action.
|
Acid posted a seriously long post N1. I find it hard to believe that he could write all that post and not bother submitting an action. Which doesn't rule him out as scum, but it rather rules out the "2 afk scum" theory that was fairly unlikely in the first place.
Looking forward to reads from Cakepie and his fresh eyes, although I understand he is busy.
|
On January 30 2013 06:31 warbaby wrote: Yeah, you're right. I messed up the chronology. I'm getting really tired and will probably head out now. I should be back by 9am (EST) tomorrow.
Thanks for posting a bunch more, Sn0_man. I still don't agree with a number of things you've said, but if you're town and pushing me to get a better read, then you're being decent about it and I appreciate that. I really don't like how Acid~ just took off after his rather fast vote on me =/
There we go. This is the kind of post that Mocsta could never bring himself to. It is still way too much of a flip-flop from previous to make me really believe that you are town, but this is serious progress.
@Slayalot: I'll go through acid's filter again, but I hope you are aware that it is fairly unlikely that BOTH your top two reads are scum due to their interaction so far. Some consideration of that may be in order.
|
On January 30 2013 05:25 Sn0_Man wrote: I'm 90% sure that jailkeeping never results in notifications of any sort, (that includes roleblock notifications) but I could be wrong. It isn't too specific in the OP.
Turns out I was WRONG.
Pursuant to PM's with the host, any player who was jailkept would recieve a roleblock notification.
So either:
A) we don't have a jailkeeper. Eminently possible.
B) our Jailkeeper JK'd scum, who didn't wish to claim (somewhat understandable).
C) our JailKeeper JK'd town, who for some unknown reason didn't claim.
Just so we are on the same page, and since this is a newbie mafia, I'll remind everybody that it is common in mafia to immediately notify town if you were roleblocked during the night, regardless of your role (including VT). Feel free to ask coaches about this.
As such, any townie who recieved a RoleBlock notification should claim it ASAP (it isn't too late).
After a bit of time has passed and everybody has read the thread, we can start working on which option it is.
|
@Acid: There are 2 scum this game. Who is scum 2.0? we are well aware of your prime scum read, who is asleep atm anyways.
|
On January 30 2013 07:57 cDgCorazon wrote: Alright, so after taking Acid's response into account, here is my action for D2 (barring something crazy). ##Vote: Acid~
If anyone has any questions, feel free to let me know.
Keep in mind its a 48 hour day cycle so we have ~26 more hours to discuss/consider.
|
Hmm, well that post I just made sounded bad. Basically I'm informing you that the deadline is NOT in 2 hours, but a day in 2 hours. You may already know that but your post sounded like you forgot about the long days.
|
On January 30 2013 08:03 zarepath wrote: If scum were JK'd last night, preventing their kill from going out, you'd think they would claim they were JK'd so that they could take credit for the option of just having been SAVED from mafia.
Maybe, especially since somebody knows who was roleblocked in that case.
This makes me think we have a doctor and no JK.
|
On January 30 2013 08:05 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 08:02 Sn0_Man wrote:On January 30 2013 07:57 cDgCorazon wrote: Alright, so after taking Acid's response into account, here is my action for D2 (barring something crazy). ##Vote: Acid~
If anyone has any questions, feel free to let me know. Keep in mind its a 48 hour day cycle so we have ~26 more hours to discuss/consider. Well I did not want to spring the case on Acid too late. Perhaps I did do it too early. I was thinking about making the case about 7 hours from now, but I wasn't sure if Acid was going to have personal stuff or be sleeping or anything like that. I'm just giving him the time to respond. Plus he's here now so it seemed like a good time as well.
Your post included something about not changing unless something drastic happened. Made me think you thought deadline was coming up.
|
On January 30 2013 23:53 zarepath wrote:Zarepath's Review of Corazon's Filterby Zarepath+ Show Spoiler +On January 28 2013 05:08 cDgCorazon wrote: Well there's a 1/3rd chance that we lynch the right player if we LAL today. So there's not much to lose on a lurker lynch.
I really hope that all three of them aren't mafia, because if they do not vote and get modkilled (I hope I'm not breaking a rule by saying that) there are some scary players waiting in the replacement section if they're all mafia.
Just theorycrafting. Hosts let me know if I broke any rules by speculating about it.
One of the game's scummiest posts, IMO. Theorycrafting and blatant rule-breaking and no real drive to hunt for scum; this post characterizes Corazon's D1 participation pretty well. On January 28 2013 10:06 cDgCorazon wrote: Well, the chances of us getting a scum D1 were zero. I'm gonna relook over the day's events and let you all know if I find anything of importance. I mentioned earlier how this contradicts his earlier post about the chances of finding scum D1. He's obviously not very consistent with his desire/town's ability to find scum. On January 29 2013 10:57 cDgCorazon wrote: I'm really sorry that I couldn't post my last thoughts, my phone died and I just got home. However, I would like to make a general answer to the accusations made against me.
Being inconsistent: You're right Zare, my focus just has not been here over the first day. I'm making a promise to all of you now that I'm going to read the thread again before saying anything. No more inconsistencies. If you're expecting a defense to this point, you're not gonna get one. I've been wasting my time.
Voting for Ska: At the point in time I was going to vote for Ska, it was already going to be him lynched, with 3 people voting for him who wouldn't be able to change their votes before the deadline. I voted Abenson to make sure all of the lurkers knew that we would not allow for lurking. Once I was notified that Abenson didn't exist, I just decided to consolidate our vote for Ska. Glurio's comment that something in my post was fishy (without actually saying which part was fishy) is scummy in itself, trying to distract the town by getting them to find a deeper meaning in everything that I post.
Not knowing set-up/being ignorant: I've already stated this, it's a massive WIFOM bomb. Stop distracting town with it.
Me not playing to my "usual standard" (whatever that is): In the past two games I've played, I spent 6 Days as scum and 1 day as town. So perhaps me not playing like I did in XXXIII means I'm town?
Now to the scumhunting part. The problem I'm having with Acid right now is that all he has done the whole game is tunneled Warbaby. I know he's going after his scum read, but most of his posts have been in his argument with WB and attacking WB. I made an argument against him asking for a reply, and it has completely ignored in his pursuit to have Warbaby lynched at all costs. Ignoring an argument is an automatic FoS for me. If he was town, why would he ignore an argument made against him. If he is truly innocent, he can explain his behavior, not ignore me and hope it blows over.
FoS: Acid~
I'm gonna go through the thread again just to make sure I didn't miss anything.
Last note for this long post: Zare, I'm glad you got your RL stuff out of the way. Your case against me was the most solid of the multiple arguments (I really can't call any of the rest cases) against me. It's going a long way for me to believe that you are town. Keep it up. In his long post, he calls Glurio, Acid, and whoever it is he calls out for the "massive WIFOM bomb" of saying it's scummy that he didn't know the setup, was ignorant, etc; scummy. At the end, he goes way out of his way to compliment the person who put a case on him; "Keep it up buddy! You're helping town so much by analyzing me! Good work!" This smells a little of overcompensation, a Congratulating the Medic deal. Town would not go out of their way to compliment the people going after them; town doesn't want to waste town's time by being analyzed, they want to go after scum. But Corazon doesn't really attempt to confirm his towniness except by throwing barbs at three different people and FoSing Acid for "tunneling" the game's scummiest player, warbaby. Here's a thing about tunneling, people -- it's only tunneling if your analysis is loaded with confirmation bias and you refuse to see evidence in anything else. If you have a scum read on someone, it's totally appropriate to pressure that person continually for more information. If you're sure they'll be lynched, it's STILL appropriate to pressure them for more information because they're going to be dead soon and unable to give up any more details. Let's quit using the term "tunneling" to mean anytime somebody focuses on a single player, okay? It's more about being blind to other possibilities and having confirmation bias than it is focusing on a single player. Cora requotes himself, then quotes me to say I summed it up nicely, then puts some pressure on WB, calling him out along with the rest of us, which does seem fairly town but he did put the FoS on Acid first. But in his continual pressure on WB, he doesn't make a case for his scumminess; he just pleads with him to stop dragging town down. It's his "execution" that's the problem, not the case itself. He's doing work here to suggest that WB is simply bad town, not active scum. When it comes down to his ultimatum on the fact that it's between Acid and WB, he chooses Acid because WB is the town jester, a persona that Cora has crafted for him over all of his facetious posts ("extra, extra!"). He requotes Sn0 without any additional content. He condemns Acid so severely for tunneling WB -- in fact, it's the core of his case on him. But I don't see a cohesive scum case or clear direction in Corazon's play, or even a modicum of contemplation, or for seeking relevant new information. Corazon looks scummy to me.
Pro Tip: We aren't lynching Cora today.
To be honest, his day 1/ night 1 play didn't impress me much either (pretty sure I wrote a post about that somewhere), but his more recent interactions are enough for me to give him a ride today.
@Acid: I know you can be effective, you know I don't mind a bit of vitriol in the arguments, but can you please be semi-reasonable. I really want to lynch warbaby right now, but you are begging me to call that off and nail you with your play. I get that you can't play all the time, I'm not hating your for your missed vote, but please be aware that excuses can be made up by scum to give them a free-ride for minimal contribution (which is why I'm still not sold on slayalot). This again is something that looks bad for you.
Also from the OP:
I'm going to warn you if you're being excessively unpleasant towards other players
Lets try to avoid that shall we?
|
Excellent. You may wish to fix your vote though as you broke the bold tag.
I agree though, warbaby's primary goal through all the posts he makes seems to be looking like he is town, not actually contributing to town. Sure, he has some good points, but everything he does just seems so... contrived to look townie.
|
|
|
|