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On January 14 2013 12:44 supersoft wrote:
sloosh seriously. idc about zentors lists. he probably just forgot you. i won't speculate about it. just ask him and not me.
since youre here. do you think its okay to critisize me for voting you because youre a vet and simultaniously votes me?
Are you talking about me or someone else?
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no prom obviously. do you follow the thread, sloosh?
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what kind of vet are you lol. i cant work with you if you follow the conversation in slow-motion.
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On January 14 2013 13:33 supersoft wrote:
what kind of vet are you lol. i cant work with you if you follow the conversation in slow-motion.
the scum kind
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You might be talking about Prom, and if not whatever because I want to start talking about him.
I don't like how his stance changes regards to Xatalos.
On January 14 2013 06:59 Promethelax wrote:
SloOsh's points on you super are exactly why I am reluctant to vote him, he has accurately expressed the thought I have with your play. It is useless bullshit. While his case was weak it had some merit, even though I won't be voting X today. It had some merit means that he clearly was trying to actively push his lynch and, based on the post Bugs pulled up regarding his interaction with Hapa, was clearly involved with the thread while present.
On January 14 2013 09:26 Promethelax wrote:
hapa, aren't you pressuring weak lynch bait in Xat and Ru? Speaking of players who have vanished for a while what about SloOsh? Why isn't he on your list?
On January 14 2013 09:44 Promethelax wrote:
And as to the case on Xatalos, have you looked at his play in Paranoia? (SloOsh you get to answer this one as well). Hapa I'll tell you what I think after the answer to this.
On January 14 2013 10:36 Promethelax wrote:
'my side' of this issue is the same as yours. I find Xata scummy, I jsut wanted to get better reads on both you and hapa and your targeting fo Xat was a great way to do it.
In paranoia Xat is wishy washy and terrible but he is also very try-hard, as he was in british. He I'm not getting that same vibe here and I am happy to lynch him today. My short list of lynchables (like lunchables but with more murder) are Xatalos, Ruuch, SuperSoft and another dude. We'll talk about him later.
The first post comes before Xatalos' defense of my case. He says my case is weak, which means his objective read on Xatalos at that point is null / town. The 2nd post reinforces this as he calls Xatalos weak lynch bait, i.e. a scummy looking townie that is easy for scum to push.
The third post positions itself for a defense of Xatalos. You don't support a lynch by presenting supporting evidence to the primary pushers like that.
Final post he decides to find Xatalos scummy. On meta basis alone, even though the read on this game was town? Nothing indicates that he has a super strong town read on Hapa and highly values Hapa's meta read over his own read. But he somehow ends on the Xatalos is scummy side of the wagon. It seems incredibly opportunistic. Call slOosh's case weak when everyone else does, call Xatalos scum when everyone else does.
What do you guys think?
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oh. yea. that works. it's been a while since I've had to try so bear with me until I get going.
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um .. I didn't actually answer your question. Let me go look at that right now.
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It's a nothing point because his criticism is that you (based on WBG's comment that a town supersoft would not lynch vets day 1) are indeed pushing to lynch someone that he sees as a vet. He has not considered that a town supersoft would not consider slOosh a vet, which could be an honest town mistake or a scum motivated push. Also, he might not consider you a vet while you consider yourself a vet which is the same misunderstanding / scum push.
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no, I know that he does not consider you a vet, otherwise I'd push to lynch him right now.
I just mentioned that because supersoft seems to have the idea that I can easily determine his alignment and that's not always true. It's only true if there are certain tells (like that) available.
@jay I've already answered at least half a dozen times why I do not want to lynch super. Also, I do not think he has played scummy. No one has really given forth good reasons to call super scum in the first place. Remember, if you want to lynch someone then the burden of proof is on you, not me. If there is no case on someone there's nothing to respond to.
Xatalos on the other hand has posts like these:
On January 13 2013 11:17 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2013 11:08 jaybrundage wrote:
@Xalalos
Well Zentor is already defending me lol. I can see him being townie again. Althought i never seen a scummy Zentor.
But as it is so far im leaning town. But regardless i rather not talk about town reads. Anything you think is scummmy as of yet? Well, I haven't seen anything really scummy yet. Mostly I'm concerned with your entrance to the thread and thrawn's lack of engagement. And Kushm4sta's attitude, although it's not actually scummy, but it's still anti-town.
On January 13 2013 11:30 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2013 11:16 thrawn2112 wrote:
my thoughts on the grush/hopeless thing have almost been reset to null for the following reason:
-the reasoning hopeless gave for thinking grush is scum is pretty close to my own reasoning. if I HAD to pick out one of them as scum right now, it'd probably be hopeless
##unvote
Apart from a few specifics in the ongoing grush/hopeless stuff, by biggest concern so far is super.
A lot of his accusations and scumhunting techniques seemed fake/ineffective and he was obsessing over things that do not matter at all. He never actually came to any conclusions based on his questioning, and he seemed to disappear from the thread as activity was starting to pick up.
What are you saying? You agree with hopeless so he's more scummy than grush whom you think is scummy with the same reasons as hopeless? Yeah, supersoft's focus on a single smilie was very overdone. But I think he looked pretty convinced about the matter. Why was it fake? Maybe he just wanted to pressure and get a reaction?
On January 13 2013 11:43 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2013 11:36 thrawn2112 wrote:On January 13 2013 11:30 Xatalos wrote:On January 13 2013 11:16 thrawn2112 wrote:
my thoughts on the grush/hopeless thing have almost been reset to null for the following reason:
-the reasoning hopeless gave for thinking grush is scum is pretty close to my own reasoning. if I HAD to pick out one of them as scum right now, it'd probably be hopeless
##unvote
Apart from a few specifics in the ongoing grush/hopeless stuff, by biggest concern so far is super.
A lot of his accusations and scumhunting techniques seemed fake/ineffective and he was obsessing over things that do not matter at all. He never actually came to any conclusions based on his questioning, and he seemed to disappear from the thread as activity was starting to pick up.
What are you saying? You agree with hopeless so he's more scummy than grush whom you think is scummy with the same reasons as hopeless? Yeah, supersoft's focus on a single smilie was very overdone. But I think he looked pretty convinced about the matter. Why was it fake? Maybe he just wanted to pressure and get a reaction? xatalos do you actually have opinions about any of this or are you just going to ask random questions? Just trying to make sense of your post. I didn't get the point you were making in your chain of logic about hopeless being scum over grush.
On January 13 2013 13:53 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2013 13:30 kushm4sta wrote:
ss wtf now I feel dumb for going on your dumb wagon.. everyone hates it.
##unvote mz
other people who look kind of scummy: hapa for dumb logic,ss for being scared shitless that he has to play 2 scum games in a row Let me get this straight. You almost instantly leave the wagon after having voted, not because you see anything wrong in the wagon at all, but because it doesn't gain enough support for your liking. Then you proceed to throw some dirt on several additional players. It just fits a Mafia agenda too well and doesn't make any sense as town. Then again, your entrance to the thread was pretty suicidal from a Mafia perspective. But if I look at the recent pages (or even just this one post), Occam's razor says you're Mafia. Can you explain your behaviour?
He comes across as incredibly diplomatic and he seems very unwilling to take a concrete stance on his reads. In most of Xatalos's posts I feel like he's trying to gauge sentiment and momentum before taking a stance so that he can be on the "right side," as opposed to trying to figure out for himself who scum are.
Indeed in the last post I just quoted he summarizes what kush has done so far, implies that it is scummy, says that Occam's Razor would suggest that he is scum, but doesn't actually call him scum-he doesn't vote him, instead, he talks to him like a townie and asks for an explanation.
Kush gave a pretty shitty explanation (IMO) and there was no followup by Xatalos.
It's only after Xatalos was called out for not doing anything that he makes a "case", on jaybrundage of all people. I like to call jaybrundage lynchbait, since he usually is the go-to mislynch of choice early on in most games he plays.
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On January 14 2013 09:44 Promethelax wrote:Thrawn, me no likey your list. Explain it to me, why are each of those four present. Would you really be comfortable lynching any of them? Why do you have a town read on Lazer and SS?
you could look through my filter and easily figure out why most of the people are on that list. maybe not hapa, that was "sorta" a random name.
and how are you equating that list to me having town reads on lazer and/or super? that doesn't make any sense stop being silly
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On January 14 2013 09:45 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2013 09:37 thrawn2112 wrote:
thrawn's new and improved lynch list:
sloosh/wbg/hapa/hopeless
i'm about 50% confident that randomly lynching into that list will lynch scum Why do you think I'm scum? You've been talking a ton about how you think my play is "off," but you haven't substantiated it at all.
eh, you or hopeless are the wildcards on that list. both of you, and especially you, are based on some tentative association theory stuff going on in my head that i'd rather not discuss atm. and wtf? i've been talking a ton about how your play is off? you misquote me sir, explain plz
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On January 14 2013 09:48 slOosh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2013 09:44 Promethelax wrote:
And as to the case on Xatalos, have you looked at his play in Paranoia? (SloOsh you get to answer this one as well). Hapa I'll tell you what I think after the answer to this.
I looked at his play from Paranoia and a bunch of other ones too, and this game's play looked nothing like his play in former games, either town or scum, which was the cause of the "second guessing" comment I started with. Do you think his meta indicates something about his alignment, particularly his drastic change in playstyle?
the part in bold is a lie
On January 13 2013 15:22 slOosh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2013 14:38 thrawn2112 wrote:On January 13 2013 14:36 slOosh wrote:
Ok, enough second guessing, my case is gonna be on Xatalos. People should read up on his filter before reading my case so they can better look at it objectively. Next post will be case. you said enough second guessing, what were your other thoughts about before deciding on xatalos? "Maybe Xatalos is really really weird town" was my conflicting thought.
the second quote (which came first) suggests that sloosh is completely unfamiliar with xatalos' play, while the first quote suggests that he'd done extensive meta research before making his big xatalos case.
the second quote suggests that slOosh's "second guessing" was due to him trying to decide if xata is scum or weird town, and the first quote suggests that slOosh's "second guessing" was due to meta arguments.
##unvote
##Vote:slOosh
fuck, i don't know which scum i should vote for lol
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yes. because those two are mutually exclusive. now talk about Prom.
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On January 14 2013 13:46 slOosh wrote:
It's a nothing point because his criticism is that you (based on WBG's comment that a town supersoft would not lynch vets day 1) are indeed pushing to lynch someone that he sees as a vet. He has not considered that a town supersoft would not consider slOosh a vet, which could be an honest town mistake or a scum motivated push. Also, he might not consider you a vet while you consider yourself a vet which is the same misunderstanding / scum push.
what? bullshit. wbg said that later in the game. Prom cannot look in the future.
ah your comment is completely useless...
This is no explanation, this is useless. Cannot work with that.
What i wanted you to see is that prom didn't carefully read me. If he had carefully read me, he would know that I am a fairly experienced player since i already posted it in the thread.
That wouldnt give us much intel about his alignment though.
That was the first explanation.
The second explanation is, that he doesn't really care about vets and no vets, because he wants to lynch me not because i accused a vet but because he's scum and i am on the right track about him and maybe 1-2 more players.
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completely unfamiliar with xata's play =/= done extensive meta research
those are like 99% mutually exclusive
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On January 14 2013 15:09 supersoft wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2013 13:46 slOosh wrote:
It's a nothing point because his criticism is that you (based on WBG's comment that a town supersoft would not lynch vets day 1) are indeed pushing to lynch someone that he sees as a vet. He has not considered that a town supersoft would not consider slOosh a vet, which could be an honest town mistake or a scum motivated push. Also, he might not consider you a vet while you consider yourself a vet which is the same misunderstanding / scum push. what? bullshit. wbg said that later in the game. Prom cannot look in the future. ah your comment is completely useless... This is no explanation, this is useless. Cannot work with that. What i wanted you to see is that prom didn't carefully read me. If he had carefully read me, he would know that I am a fairly experienced player since i already posted it in the thread. That wouldnt give us much intel about his alignment though. That was the first explanation. The second explanation is, that he doesn't really care about vets and no vets, because he wants to lynch me not because i accused a vet but because he's scum and i am on the right track about him and maybe 1-2 more players.
http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/YwLMP7ia2me
Post 125. I assumed Prom got the idea from that because, as you said, WBG's comment comes later. Either that or he and WBG is scum buddies and they shared information. There's nothing we can do to determine how he knows this, so I think it's null.
I do however find his Xatalos stance switching is scummy. What do you think of that?
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wait a sec, i'll read that again! :-)
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On January 14 2013 15:09 thrawn2112 wrote:
completely unfamiliar with xata's play =/= done extensive meta research
those are like 99% mutually exclusive
On January 14 2013 10:16 slOosh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2013 09:55 Promethelax wrote:
what drastic change in playstyle are we talking about here SloOsh? Explain it to me like you want me to understand it. In this game he waffles around and takes forever to come to a conclusion that jay is scum when British and Paranoia show that he is capable of making conclusions and scum reads. Newbie XV shows that he is comfortable with playing scum (opposed to lurking / timidity that you often see), openly making calls and reads.
You really are seeing things that aren't there thrawn. My statement of "Xatalos is weird town" isn't a sweeping statement meaning I thought Xatalos is a weird player. You can see in my second post that I've looked at his previous games and his current play doesn't match up to either town or scum play. That is weird. Even if the contradiction you think you are seeing is there, you can clearly see that I'm not pushing to lynch Xatalos on that point anyways.
Now comment on my Prom thoughts.
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in case anyone is confused about how this is a lie, i'll repost and explain in further detail
On January 14 2013 15:00 thrawn2112 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2013 09:48 slOosh wrote:On January 14 2013 09:44 Promethelax wrote:
And as to the case on Xatalos, have you looked at his play in Paranoia? (SloOsh you get to answer this one as well). Hapa I'll tell you what I think after the answer to this.
I looked at his play from Paranoia and a bunch of other ones too, and this game's play looked nothing like his play in former games, either town or scum, which was the cause of the "second guessing" comment I started with. Do you think his meta indicates something about his alignment, particularly his drastic change in playstyle? the part in bold is a lieShow nested quote +On January 13 2013 15:22 slOosh wrote:On January 13 2013 14:38 thrawn2112 wrote:On January 13 2013 14:36 slOosh wrote:
Ok, enough second guessing, my case is gonna be on Xatalos. People should read up on his filter before reading my case so they can better look at it objectively. Next post will be case. you said enough second guessing, what were your other thoughts about before deciding on xatalos? "Maybe Xatalos is really really weird town" was my conflicting thought. the second quote (which came first) suggests that sloosh is completely unfamiliar with xatalos' play, while the first quote suggests that he'd done extensive meta research before making his big xatalos case. the second quote suggests that slOosh's "second guessing" was due to him trying to decide if xata is scum or weird town, and the first quote suggests that slOosh's "second guessing" was due to meta arguments. ##unvote
##Vote:slOoshfuck, i don't know which scum i should vote for lol
note that BOTH of the bolded statements I quoted sloosh are referencing a comment he made about how he was second guessing his read on Xata. Hwen he first made that 2nd guess comment I asked him to explain it. He said that his second guessing was due to him thinking that xata might just be really really weird town. The second time slOosh explains his 2nd guessing comment he says it was because of conflicting/confusing meta ideas.
If someone says "PLayer X is either scum or really really weird town," this implies that they feel they are too unfamiliar with that player's playstyle to be able to differintiate between scum and weird town. This obviously does not make sense if slOosh had gone through Xata's previous games.
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##Vote Xatalos
No idea why I haven't done this yet. Moving on:
@ Thrawn
The stuff on SloOsh doesn't make any sense. The second quote only suggests that he's relatively unfamiliar with his play, and not completely unfamiliar. The quotes make perfect sense with one another.
Also, why are you chainsaw defending Xata? You were suspicious of him earlier...
On January 13 2013 11:54 thrawn2112 wrote:
the reasons I think xatalos could be scum
he's defending kush.... scum do that a lot
he's pushing jay.....scum do that a lot
he's participating in a lot of discussion that isn't related to scumhunting, it looks like he's arguing for the sake of arguing
i don't detect real suspicion in any of his posts
he's spending way too much time defending people and I don't think he's actually suspicious of anything
And now you're busy chainsaw defending him. Do you think Xata is town? Because he hasn't appeared in any of your "lynch lists"
On January 14 2013 14:48 thrawn2112 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2013 09:45 Hapahauli wrote:On January 14 2013 09:37 thrawn2112 wrote:
thrawn's new and improved lynch list:
sloosh/wbg/hapa/hopeless
i'm about 50% confident that randomly lynching into that list will lynch scum Why do you think I'm scum? You've been talking a ton about how you think my play is "off," but you haven't substantiated it at all. eh, you or hopeless are the wildcards on that list. both of you, and especially you, are based on some tentative association theory stuff going on in my head that i'd rather not discuss atm. and wtf? i've been talking a ton about how your play is off? you misquote me sir, explain plz
Do discuss this, because you're suggesting lynching me on mysterious preflip "associations", which is absolutely retarded.
Oh as for the "off" stuff, I confused one of MrZ's posts with one of yours. Too many open tabs, and too little sleep
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EPT
