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Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
January 04 2013 23:57 GMT
#161
On January 05 2013 08:25 MrZentor wrote:
How many times have you been scum in forum mafia, Xatalos?


Game of Thrones - Mafia - Win (you were town here)
Newbie Mini VII - Town - Loss
Newbie Mini XV - Mafia - Win
Newbie Mini XXVI - Mafia - Loss
Paranoia - Town - Win (you were town here)

On January 05 2013 08:21 MrZentor wrote:
Hapa, aren't you glad I make myself easy to read?
+ Show Spoiler +

On January 05 2013 07:23 Xatalos wrote:
Sorry for the late entrance, but I warned about this pre-game :/

Anyways, there are a couple of players whose posting I haven't liked so far:

MrZentor

Show nested quote +
On January 04 2013 09:37 MrZentor wrote:
Also, dragging days out will lead to decreased interest in the game by town, increasing inactivity, and generally making things easier for scum.

Days should be 48-72 hours.


Additional discussion time benefits town and damages Mafia. Mafia's agenda is to stall discussion and create confusion - both of these goals are achieved by faster lynches where less players can offer their opinions. From my point of view, the above post is pushing Mafia agenda.

Show nested quote +
On January 04 2013 11:40 MrZentor wrote:
I feel that creating an arbitrary limit will only limit town, regardless of whether that limit is one that shortens or lengthens the day.

We should instead have guidelines.

48-72 hours


This post basically repeats what was already said in the previous post... Plus some obvious setup talk that anyone could post, no matter their alignment. It's quite unnecessary to mention that his "faster lynches plan" is a guideline and not a strictly enforced rule. Who would have thought so in the first place, really?

Show nested quote +
On January 04 2013 11:54 MrZentor wrote:
By the way, I will be reserving my vote, just so I can the first to lynch somebody.


Another post that doesn't fit into town agenda. Regardless of the trollish appearance, this post actually gives MrZentor more breathing room if he just joins a bandwagon without good reasoning later on. He told he would do so after all, didn't he?

Show nested quote +
On January 04 2013 11:59 MrZentor wrote:
ShiaoPi, if you say that you agree with me about not creating arbitrary limits about the length of the day, I will think of you as confirmed town.


Show nested quote +
On January 04 2013 12:01 MrZentor wrote:
You're not ShiaoPi.


Show nested quote +
On January 04 2013 12:12 MrZentor wrote:
Because we're masoned.

But don't tell anybody.


Show nested quote +
On January 04 2013 12:15 MrZentor wrote:
I'm masoned with more than one person.

ShiaoPi pulled a BH.


More fluff...

So far there's nothing townish in MrZentor's filter, and too much useless/anti-town stuff to be overlooked. If he's town, he needs to change his playstyle completely. If he's Mafia, he needs to continue on his current path and convince us he can't be town.

Mr. Cheesecake

Who was he again? I only remembered him after rereading the thread a couple of times. He hasn't actually taken stances on anything that matters (not counting obvious stuff like "we should lynch the scummiest player"). What I'm most worried about is his complete lack of presence - he's basically casually lurking without being too obvious. I'm unwilling to judge him yet, but he isn't looking good so far.

jaybrundage


Show nested quote +
On January 04 2013 10:45 jaybrundage wrote:
On January 04 2013 10:17 RiseAgain wrote:
On January 04 2013 10:16 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
I'm curious as to how the omniscient Rise knows the setup already...?

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391112#2

Its in the OP. Reading is an useful skill.

Well we can rule out Palmar as the smurf.

In regards to your idea about the set up. It seems that if we have a parity cop. And then lynch the person the parity cop targeted night one.

We would have confirmed towns and confirmed scum easily. As we have no millers or GF's.

The only trick would be for the parity cop to push his lynch well with out getting outed. Unless you have some idea for claiming.


Show nested quote +
On January 04 2013 11:42 jaybrundage wrote:
On January 04 2013 11:01 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Jay

Any other thoughts on what Rise and I have discussed over the first pages of the thread? Day length, hammer votes, or anything really.


We should lynch someone when we feel confident they are mafia.

We should always be aware of the hammer vote. People should be responsible for there hammer vote.

We shouldn't rush a lynch cause we lost discussions to read people with.

Policy Lynches rarely work so we should refrain from doing them.

Pretty straight forward imo.

Show nested quote +
On January 04 2013 12:00 jaybrundage wrote:
On January 04 2013 11:59 MrZentor wrote:
ShiaoPi, if you say that you agree with me about not creating arbitrary limits about the length of the day, I will think of you as confirmed town.

Should be obvious why limit our selves? Only lynch when we are confident in the lynch. And have had good discussion over it.


This is his whole filter. It's certainly... lacking, for a lack of better word. First he speculates a bit about blue roles, then gives a list of vague of his policy opinions, then leaves. It's just all too vague and pointless for my liking. What's up with this lack of effort, interest, anything really?

Some players have been very active so far and it's definitely a good theme in this game. But some players (like these 3 above) have done practically nothing, even if they have posted. That should be some reason for concern to anyone.



Show nested quote +
Additional discussion time benefits town and damages Mafia. Mafia's agenda is to stall discussion and create confusion - both of these goals are achieved by faster lynches where less players can offer their opinions. From my point of view, the above post is pushing Mafia agenda.


Up to a certain point, additional discussion time benefits town, obviously. But a lot of people seem to think that more time is ALWAYS good for town. They don't realize that after a certain point, not being able to lynch somebody, because of all this extra time, hurts town.

Just because you disagree with something doesn't mean it's pushing Mafia agenda. K?

Show nested quote +
This post basically repeats what was already said in the previous post... Plus some obvious setup talk that anyone could post, no matter their alignment. It's quite unnecessary to mention that his "faster lynches plan" is a guideline and not a strictly enforced rule. Who would have thought so in the first place, really?


What post? This post?
Show nested quote +
On January 04 2013 11:39 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
On January 04 2013 11:32 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Mr.CC
On January 04 2013 11:21 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
On January 04 2013 11:17 Hapahauli wrote:
On January 04 2013 10:45 jaybrundage wrote:
On January 04 2013 10:17 RiseAgain wrote:
On January 04 2013 10:16 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
I'm curious as to how the omniscient Rise knows the setup already...?

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391112#2

Its in the OP. Reading is an useful skill.

Well we can rule out Palmar as the smurf.

In regards to your idea about the set up. It seems that if we have a parity cop. And then lynch the person the parity cop targeted night one.

We would have confirmed towns and confirmed scum easily. As we have no millers or GF's.

The only trick would be for the parity cop to push his lynch well with out getting outed. Unless you have some idea for claiming.


Is Rise a smurf? He seems to me more like a guy who stumbled upon our parts from mafiascum.net or something. Perhaps I'm wrong.


Either way it doesn't matter, just another face I don't know. Easier to judge based on face value, without all the meta behind it.


Well I'd interpret him withholding his game history a lot differently if he was a smurf. And looking at his profile... yeah he's a smurf. 'doh. British flag and whatnot.


Haha that's hilarious. Still, we can't judge anything based on him being a smurf. Not really going to dwell or speculate on it further.


Show nested quote +

Another post that doesn't fit into town agenda. Regardless of the trollish appearance, this post actually gives MrZentor more breathing room if he just joins a bandwagon without good reasoning later on. He told he would do so after all, didn't he?


I didn't say I would join a bandwagon with any good reason. I said I would be the final vote in the lynching of somebody. And scum wouldn't make a post like that. The easiest thing for them to do is recycle reasons while adding a few pointless one of their owns for joining a bandwagon. Also, mafia wouldn't want to have the hammer vote.


I meant this post (which I quoted):

On January 04 2013 11:40 MrZentor wrote:
I feel that creating an arbitrary limit will only limit town, regardless of whether that limit is one that shortens or lengthens the day.

We should instead have guidelines.

48-72 hours


In any case, I'm pretty satisfied with your responses. Your counter-arguments to my (pretty weak) arguments for your scumminess are what I'd expect from a townie: calm, collected, reasonable. Combined with Hapahauli's recommendation to wait on you, I don't see you as a good lynch at the moment.

On January 05 2013 08:33 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Xatalos

If you had one (or two) top scumreads in the thread at the moment, who would it be and why? You threw around 3 lurkers and called them suspicious, but that's rather easy to do. I'm more interested in your conclusions.


I'm having some problems with my reads right now :/ I don't like DP as scum based on his activity and some townish posts, but some of his posts aren't looking too good (one moment you're certain scum, the next you're retard town... and overall his aggressive and emotional tunneling on you). Considering his latest posts, I'll have to put him as my #1 scum at the moment. There just isn't a lot of meaningful content in the thread except from a couple of players, which makes it hard to single out suspects. I'd put #2 scum on Mr. Cheesecake though. Call it a gut feeling, but I don't like his non-content posts and being so totally "invisible" in the thread. That's just classic passive Mafia play.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
MrZentor
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1648 Posts
January 05 2013 00:00 GMT
#162
I meant this post (which I quoted):


What was the post that I repeated?
Falling’s just like flying, except there’s a more permanent destination.
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
January 05 2013 00:09 GMT
#163
The point about lynching in 48-72 hours (guideline, rule - what's the difference in the end? every "rule" is a guideline after all, since there are no absolute rules except the ones that belong to the setup)
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
MrZentor
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1648 Posts
January 05 2013 00:13 GMT
#164
There's a pretty large difference between a rule and a guideline.

And from what I see, before my post, people wanted the day to be longer than 72 hours.

You still haven't quoted the post that you say I repeated..

This post basically repeats what was already said in the previous post... Plus some obvious setup talk that anyone could post, no matter their alignment. It's quite unnecessary to mention that his "faster lynches plan" is a guideline and not a strictly enforced rule. Who would have thought so in the first place, really?
Falling’s just like flying, except there’s a more permanent destination.
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
January 05 2013 00:21 GMT
#165
Sigh

On January 04 2013 09:37 MrZentor wrote:
Also, dragging days out will lead to decreased interest in the game by town, increasing inactivity, and generally making things easier for scum.

Days should be 48-72 hours.


->

On January 04 2013 11:40 MrZentor wrote:
I feel that creating an arbitrary limit will only limit town, regardless of whether that limit is one that shortens or lengthens the day.

We should instead have guidelines.

48-72 hours


It's getting too late and I'm going to bed now though. Good night
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
MrZentor
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1648 Posts
January 05 2013 00:23 GMT
#166
Except the second time I stated that we needed guidelines, not rules. >.<

Whatever.
Falling’s just like flying, except there’s a more permanent destination.
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
January 05 2013 00:31 GMT
#167
On January 05 2013 09:23 MrZentor wrote:
Except the second time I stated that we needed guidelines, not rules. >.<

Whatever.


Eh this seems like arguing over semantics rather than substance.

Anywho MrZ, any scumreads at the moment?
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
MrZentor
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1648 Posts
January 05 2013 00:36 GMT
#168
I was confused because I thought he was saying I had copied somebody's post. That's all.

I thought Xatalos was scum, but now I think he's town. -.-

So..no. :/
Falling’s just like flying, except there’s a more permanent destination.
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
January 05 2013 00:43 GMT
#169
So who do you think is town at the moment (and why)?
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
MrZentor
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1648 Posts
January 05 2013 00:45 GMT
#170
Me, you, and a little Xatalos

Falling’s just like flying, except there’s a more permanent destination.
MrZentor
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1648 Posts
January 05 2013 00:46 GMT
#171
What about you?
Falling’s just like flying, except there’s a more permanent destination.
jaybrundage
Profile Joined December 2009
United States3921 Posts
January 05 2013 00:46 GMT
#172
@Xalatos I dont plan to post just to post. When I'm ready to give my thoughts ill do so.

On January 04 2013 11:51 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 04 2013 11:42 jaybrundage wrote:
On January 04 2013 11:01 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Jay

Any other thoughts on what Rise and I have discussed over the first pages of the thread? Day length, hammer votes, or anything really.


We should lynch someone when we feel confident they are mafia.

We should always be aware of the hammer vote. People should be responsible for there hammer vote.

We shouldn't rush a lynch cause we lost discussions to read people with.

Policy Lynches rarely work so we should refrain from doing them.

Pretty straight forward imo.


So the hammer vote takes full responsibility for the lynch? Everyone who votes is responsible, not just the hammering guy.



Dont like this post from CC its twisting my words for no reason.

It feels like a post just to post and look like hes contributing with out saying anything. Ofc the Hammer vote isn't going to take responsibility for the whole lynch but he does seal the deal.

Also Hapa on your case on DP I think you bring up some good points. Specifically him calling you out with any case. And saying lurking is terrible but not pressuring any lurkers.
The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in battle.
jaybrundage
Profile Joined December 2009
United States3921 Posts
January 05 2013 00:47 GMT
#173
On January 05 2013 09:43 Hapahauli wrote:
So who do you think is town at the moment (and why)?

Also there is no reason to out your town reads imo....
The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in battle.
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
January 05 2013 00:48 GMT
#174
On January 05 2013 09:46 MrZentor wrote:
What about you?


You so far. That's about it really.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
January 05 2013 00:50 GMT
#175
On January 05 2013 09:45 MrZentor wrote:
Me, you, and a little Xatalos



Oh also, I thought you were convinced that DP was town. What changed your mind?
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
MrZentor
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1648 Posts
January 05 2013 00:53 GMT
#176
You.
Falling’s just like flying, except there’s a more permanent destination.
MrZentor
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1648 Posts
January 05 2013 00:57 GMT
#177
He was a weak town read anyways, and the fact that he posts every few hours why he won't be able to post later is kind of worrying.
Falling’s just like flying, except there’s a more permanent destination.
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
January 05 2013 00:58 GMT
#178
@ Jay
On January 05 2013 09:46 jaybrundage wrote:
@Xalatos I dont plan to post just to post. When I'm ready to give my thoughts ill do so.

Show nested quote +
On January 04 2013 11:51 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
On January 04 2013 11:42 jaybrundage wrote:
On January 04 2013 11:01 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Jay

Any other thoughts on what Rise and I have discussed over the first pages of the thread? Day length, hammer votes, or anything really.


We should lynch someone when we feel confident they are mafia.

We should always be aware of the hammer vote. People should be responsible for there hammer vote.

We shouldn't rush a lynch cause we lost discussions to read people with.

Policy Lynches rarely work so we should refrain from doing them.

Pretty straight forward imo.


So the hammer vote takes full responsibility for the lynch? Everyone who votes is responsible, not just the hammering guy.



Dont like this post from CC its twisting my words for no reason.

It feels like a post just to post and look like hes contributing with out saying anything. Ofc the Hammer vote isn't going to take responsibility for the whole lynch but he does seal the deal.

Also Hapa on your case on DP I think you bring up some good points. Specifically him calling you out with any case. And saying lurking is terrible but not pressuring any lurkers.


Thanks for posting, but there's not much out of your filter right now other than re-hashes of points that people have already made. ShaioPi made a post earlier on Rise's "over-aggressiveness" - what are your thoughts on that?
On January 04 2013 12:23 ShiaoPi wrote:
I wanna have a look at RiseAgain:

+ Show Spoiler +
On January 04 2013 09:45 RiseAgain wrote:
Oh, good someone spewing banalities already. Also, that post is clearly pre-prepared, which makes it worthless for assessing your alignment. Good job?

1.) Why? Letting days go on interminably is a waste. Towns, more often than not, manage to talk themselves out of good lynches and generally get sidetracked, we need to have a plan for eventually reaching a consensus, if we spend a week talking, people will lose interest and focus, there's a reason days last 48 hours usually. I'm fine with running 72 hours, I'm not fine with us stalemating stupidly.

2.) I have a better proposal. Consider the guy taking the hammer vote the same as a day vigi and act on his "shot" accordingly, sometimes (most times) extended discussion is called for. Sometimes heroic shots are called for. Judge on actions.

3.) Policy Lynches are stupid, because town never follows up on them. We can claim we want to policy lynch people hammering stupidly, but you know we won't. There are way too many people who value their opinion over the common good, so time spent discussing policy lynches is... wasted time. Judge people based on their actions, nothing more, nothing less.

What your post is doing is detracting from something we should be doing, setup-analysis, this setup has a very clear town slant with the proper play. I already know what it is, three townie points to the first person to propose it, if no one has come up with it in the next... 12-24 hours I'll explain it, after all, we have time.


That is his first post. First question, why so aggressive?
While it is true that we cannot gain much regarding alignment out of hapa's post, somebody does have to start the game and well it usually is policy talk. I for one would also be really curious what kind of setup gaming you have in mind RiseAgain. Also why respond to things which are "banalities" in your eyes? Shouldn't you just ignore them anyway?


Honestly I'm just looking for anything from ya. It's hard to get a read from you when you don't post all too often.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
January 05 2013 01:07 GMT
#179
@ MrZ
On January 05 2013 09:57 MrZentor wrote:
He was a weak town read anyways, and the fact that he posts every few hours why he won't be able to post later is kind of worrying.


Huh? It doesn't sound like you had a weak town read on him before:
On January 05 2013 08:42 MrZentor wrote:
Hapa, although I'm unaware of DP's typical scum play, I'm pretty confident he's town.

And what do you think of Xatalos?

a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
MrZentor
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1648 Posts
January 05 2013 01:09 GMT
#180
It was weak.
Falling’s just like flying, except there’s a more permanent destination.
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