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On January 05 2013 06:44 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 06:29 Hapahauli wrote:And once again I am wondering how the fuck a town hapa is not reaching the same conclusions as myself and is pushing the wagons of two people who are null at worst. This deserves special mention, because it's night and day from your early-game in Witchcraft Mini. You were willing to jump on people for random, inconsequential things in order to create discussion. This statement is the exact opposite - you're finding things null and keeping an arms-length separation from the thread. What's up DP? Also, you called me "town hapa." Hehe. You know as well as I do that the way I phrased that was not calling you town but in fact suggesting that I could not reconcile your play this game with your town play. So I don't even see the point of that statement. You are talking about djo from last game correct? well firstly that was not pressure voting or attempting to increase activity. That was me thinking Djo was scummy as shit. Lo and behold. he flipped scum bro.
You jumped on Djo for setup-speculation. Why haven't you jumped on anyone here for the same? You've just been all "eh fuck it it's all null."
The other pressure votes from that game were clearly labelled as such and were consistent with the policy of voting for a lurker until they contributed. This policy was clearly expressed beforehand.
So quit trying to OMGUS me with a shitty meta case. Which you KNOW to be untrue.
Nah you're being quite different so far. You feel more distant, and it's scummy. You're not jumping on people, and you think the only player who gives two shits about the activity in the thread is "scummy."
Day one of witchcraft I derailed the wagon on jixian as I thought he was newbie town/scummy town. from our IRC conversations you know very well my positions on wagons such as these. Based on my positions on Jixian and Eywa.
That's a misrepresentation. You really fanned the flames of the wagon until JieXian started being all spammy-like near the lynch deadline. Don't tell me you don't jump on things as town, cause that's a load of shit.
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On January 05 2013 06:40 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 06:36 DarthPunk wrote:On January 05 2013 06:22 Hapahauli wrote:
YES, TUNNEL ME! Finally someone takes a stance on something.
As for why I'm tunneling, I have two options:
1) I can sit here and derp around waiting for someone to do something. Clearly this is not happening this game.
2) I can try to make conversation on something I find off in the thread to get things going.
I always lean towards option 2. This is why I pursue things early and aggressively early in the game. They may or may not stick (i.e. my case on you in Witchcraft Mini), but it's an important part of the process. well I would hardly call that post tunnelling. In fact that reaction is just plain weird. So what you are saying is that you are deliberately acting scummier than usual but that this is what you do every game? Oh that's full of shit and you know it. How am I acting scummier? As far as I'm concerned, I'm the only one here actively trying to start discussion. And what part of my reaction is "weird?" You're dropping words without any reasoning to back it up. Show nested quote +The thing that is hurting this game the most right now is lurking. So why are you not saying anything about lurking? In fact the only time you have 'pressured' people is when another player first comments on them. Shiao Pi with Riseagain and myself with Yamato. That's a fantastic idea DarthPunk - let's tunnel people that haven't posted anything less than 24 hours into the game. That will do something useful for discussion. Show nested quote +That is quite distinct to what you did in witchcraft for example, which was push people on your own regardless of the positions of others, make a strong case and ask people to judge that on it's merits. The bolded is exactly what I'm doing this game. And the fact that you think I'm scummy because I haven't made a case less than 24 hours into the game with 4 pages of game filter is a level of absurdity I can't begin to comprehend.
Who the fuck is saying anything about tunnelling? I clearly said pressure. I fucking pressured lurkers all of day one in witchcraft.
And I don;t think you are scummy because you haven;t made a case. I didn't say that. I think you are scummy because of the way you are pushing two weak as shit wagons. Which are obviously weak as shit and me not being able to believe that you as town would not see they are weak as shit. ergo you are scummy as we are CLEARLY not sharing a similar mindset about said wagons.
Also you immediate OMGUS is fucking terrible. Not town play. Not good play. Not town hapa play.
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Who the fuck is saying anything about tunnelling? I clearly said pressure. I fucking pressured lurkers all of day one in witchcraft.
Okay. So where's your lurker pressure now? You're "pressuring" the most active player in the thread.
And I don;t think you are scummy because you haven;t made a case. I didn't say that. I think you are scummy because of the way you are pushing two weak as shit wagons. Which are obviously weak as shit and me not being able to believe that you as town would not see they are weak as shit. ergo you are scummy as we are CLEARLY not sharing a similar mindset about said wagons.
"Hapa doesn't agree with me. Therefore he is scummy."
Not only is this bad logic in general, but we're talking about early day fucking 1.
Also you immediate OMGUS is fucking terrible. Not town play. Not good play. Not town hapa play.
LOL. Name me one of my town games in which I don't OMGUS someone.
##Vote DarthPunk
Straight-up OMGUS and a sprinkle of gut-feeling. You scum brah.
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On January 05 2013 06:49 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 06:44 DarthPunk wrote:On January 05 2013 06:29 Hapahauli wrote:And once again I am wondering how the fuck a town hapa is not reaching the same conclusions as myself and is pushing the wagons of two people who are null at worst. This deserves special mention, because it's night and day from your early-game in Witchcraft Mini. You were willing to jump on people for random, inconsequential things in order to create discussion. This statement is the exact opposite - you're finding things null and keeping an arms-length separation from the thread. What's up DP? Also, you called me "town hapa." Hehe. You know as well as I do that the way I phrased that was not calling you town but in fact suggesting that I could not reconcile your play this game with your town play. So I don't even see the point of that statement. You are talking about djo from last game correct? well firstly that was not pressure voting or attempting to increase activity. That was me thinking Djo was scummy as shit. Lo and behold. he flipped scum bro. You jumped on Djo for setup-speculation. Why haven't you jumped on anyone here for the same? You've just been all "eh fuck it it's all null."
Because I had JUST fucking caught him for that exact thing in Mario. I know Djo better having played several games with him than I know a smurf who is speculating set-up with the entire town.
On January 05 2013 06:49 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +The other pressure votes from that game were clearly labelled as such and were consistent with the policy of voting for a lurker until they contributed. This policy was clearly expressed beforehand.
So quit trying to OMGUS me with a shitty meta case. Which you KNOW to be untrue. Nah you're being quite different so far. You feel more distant, and it's scummy. You're not jumping on people, and you think the only player who gives two shits about the activity in the thread is "scummy." Show nested quote +Day one of witchcraft I derailed the wagon on jixian as I thought he was newbie town/scummy town. from our IRC conversations you know very well my positions on wagons such as these. Based on my positions on Jixian and Eywa. That's a misrepresentation. You really fanned the flames of the wagon until JieXian started being all spammy-like near the lynch deadline. Don't tell me you don't jump on things as town, cause that's a load of shit.
So this OMGUS is due to some undeveloped meta bullshit correct? when I have been correctly lynched due to meta cases a grand total of zero times. And you have, in the past, shown a complete lack of understanding of the way to read me through meta.
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On January 05 2013 06:54 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +Who the fuck is saying anything about tunnelling? I clearly said pressure. I fucking pressured lurkers all of day one in witchcraft. Okay. So where's your lurker pressure now? You're "pressuring" the most active player in the thread. Show nested quote +And I don;t think you are scummy because you haven;t made a case. I didn't say that. I think you are scummy because of the way you are pushing two weak as shit wagons. Which are obviously weak as shit and me not being able to believe that you as town would not see they are weak as shit. ergo you are scummy as we are CLEARLY not sharing a similar mindset about said wagons. "Hapa doesn't agree with me. Therefore he is scummy." Not only is this bad logic in general, but we're talking about early day fucking 1. Show nested quote +Also you immediate OMGUS is fucking terrible. Not town play. Not good play. Not town hapa play. LOL. Name me one of my town games in which I don't OMGUS someone.
##Vote DarthPunkStraight-up OMGUS and a sprinkle of gut-feeling. You scum brah.
Wow. If you are actually town. This is straight up fucking awful. I still love you though.
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Naw it's quite good actually.
You've been screaming "lurkers are ruining the game" in our conversation. Your solution? You've never offered a single lurker to the chopping block. Instead, you think the most active player in the game is scummy.
That's a complete load of logical shit, and I don't expect that from a town DP.
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Anyway. I am moving house for my mother today. She hasn't moved in a LONG time so she has a shit load of stuff. I'll try and check back when there are some breaks. catch ya later.
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DAMNIT WE HAD SOMETHING GOING - GET BACK HERE SO I CAN FLAME YOU.
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On January 05 2013 06:57 Hapahauli wrote:
Naw it's quite good actually.
You've been screaming "lurkers are ruining the game" in our conversation. Your solution? You've never offered a single lurker to the chopping block. Instead, you think the most active player in the game is scummy.
That's a complete load of logical shit, and I don't expect that from a town DP.
We don't have to lynch forever in this game. we can wait a bit before we seriously consider lynching for lurking which is a larger sacrifice in a game this small.
What was on top of my agenda was figuring out hapa as you are the scariest player in this game, and if I could get a solid town read on you we could roll these scum. Unfortunately you went retard and or are scum so now I have to deal with a hapa tunnelling me based on
On January 05 2013 06:54 Hapahauli wrote:
Straight-up OMGUS and a sprinkle of gut-feeling. You scum brah.
All the while I am somehow illogical despite having really solid reasoning and you just ignoring that to serve your OMGUS agenda.
Well, that is cool with me HAPA. I don't have to convince you you are scum. I just have to convince the town. And that should be straightforward after this little party we have been having together.
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On January 05 2013 06:59 Hapahauli wrote:
DAMNIT WE HAD SOMETHING GOING - GET BACK HERE SO I CAN FLAME YOU.
Lovely. You really aren't being protown are you buddy?
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I will be gone soon. If I stop posting you know why.
@everyone besides hapa. If you get outposted by scum as town you fail at this game. Just saying.
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Do me a favor DP: outline your "case" on me. Because it's a load of logical crap.
You're supposedly very critical of lurkers, yet you've done nothing to pursue said lurking at all. Despite this, you accuse me of not going after lurkers. I love you, but you've been caught with your pants down =)
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I will use my hammer vote as soon as I possibly can.
It's unlikely that scum will want to have the final vote on somebody, because it will put them under a lot of scrutiny.
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DarthPunk's Stance on Lurkers
On January 05 2013 05:53 DarthPunk wrote:
well. I expected to wake up to a hell of a lot more posts than two.
Ugh. There is nothing really to go off yet. All this arguing over set-up only servers to obfuscate reads on things.
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On January 05 2013 06:36 DarthPunk wrote:
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The thing that is hurting this game the most right now is lurking. So why are you not saying anything about lurking?
DP is apparently super-concerned with lurkers this game. In fact, he has a well-established history of pressuring lurkers in similar game situations. Witchcraft Mini Mafia had a very similar opening, where town was very inactive for most of Day 1. DarthPunk was very adamant about pursuing players who haven't posted. In his own words:
Who the fuck is saying anything about tunnelling? I clearly said pressure. I fucking pressured lurkers all of day one in witchcraft.
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He pressured lurkers all of Day 1 in witchcraft mini mafia (as town). He's done nothing to that end so far, despite his concern. Basically, his "concern" is a front. He's pretending to be concerned about lurkers, and offering much rhetoric to that end. When it comes down to it however, he doesn't give a shit about pressuring them. Instead, he goes after the most active player in the game.
As a side note, DarthPunk and I have played many games together. He's very intimately familiar with how I play town. Hilariously enough, everything he's attacking me for this game are signature traits of my town play. Pushing "weak" wagons on Day 1, OMGUS plays... these are all things that I do in every one of my town games.
DarthPunk seems to have conveniently "forgot" about our game history for his own ends.
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On January 05 2013 07:08 Hapahauli wrote:
Do me a favor DP: outline your "case" on me. Because it's a load of logical crap.
You're supposedly very critical of lurkers, yet you've done nothing to pursue said lurking at all. Despite this, you accuse me of not going after lurkers. I love you, but you've been caught with your pants down =)
You aren't going to mislynch me HAPA. I suggest you try to mislynch someone else.
And my case isn't one yet. I haven't even voted for you. But I think you outed yourself pretty nicely in this te ta te. If someone other than Hapa wants me to clarify something or ask me a question then feel free.
Also about the lurker thing. I was critical of lurkers but believing that because I am critical of lurkers I can only go after lurkers is fallacious. Especially when I value knowing your alignment far more.
wow you are really twisting things now.
@ Bolded.
I accused you of going after easy fucking wagons that I knew were bad. And I knew Town hapa would know were bad.
You then responded by saying said wagons were only for pressure and to spark activity
I then said that if you wanted to pressure people why not pressure lurkers who are actually hurting the game.
I did not push bad wagons for pressure, Therefore saying that because I 'told' you to go after lurkers I must do the same is fallacious.
I did not subscribe to the same motives as you did when presenting your defence. In fact I had higher priorities such as discerning your alignment. which I proceeded to follow.
You call me Illogical but that does not make it true. I know you are trying your best to flame me away dear, but it won't work. You won't mislynch me and you won't twist my words or this narrative.
If you are town I suggest you find a way to make that perfectly clear to the thread. Flaming and OMGUS doesn't cut it I'm afraid.
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Sorry for the late entrance, but I warned about this pre-game :/
Anyways, there are a couple of players whose posting I haven't liked so far:
MrZentor
On January 04 2013 09:37 MrZentor wrote:
Also, dragging days out will lead to decreased interest in the game by town, increasing inactivity, and generally making things easier for scum.
Days should be 48-72 hours.
Additional discussion time benefits town and damages Mafia. Mafia's agenda is to stall discussion and create confusion - both of these goals are achieved by faster lynches where less players can offer their opinions. From my point of view, the above post is pushing Mafia agenda.
On January 04 2013 11:40 MrZentor wrote:
I feel that creating an arbitrary limit will only limit town, regardless of whether that limit is one that shortens or lengthens the day.
We should instead have guidelines.
48-72 hours
This post basically repeats what was already said in the previous post... Plus some obvious setup talk that anyone could post, no matter their alignment. It's quite unnecessary to mention that his "faster lynches plan" is a guideline and not a strictly enforced rule. Who would have thought so in the first place, really?
On January 04 2013 11:54 MrZentor wrote:
By the way, I will be reserving my vote, just so I can the first to lynch somebody.
Another post that doesn't fit into town agenda. Regardless of the trollish appearance, this post actually gives MrZentor more breathing room if he just joins a bandwagon without good reasoning later on. He told he would do so after all, didn't he?
On January 04 2013 11:59 MrZentor wrote:
ShiaoPi, if you say that you agree with me about not creating arbitrary limits about the length of the day, I will think of you as confirmed town.
On January 04 2013 12:01 MrZentor wrote:
You're not ShiaoPi.
On January 04 2013 12:12 MrZentor wrote:
Because we're masoned.
But don't tell anybody.
On January 04 2013 12:15 MrZentor wrote:
I'm masoned with more than one person.
ShiaoPi pulled a BH.
More fluff...
So far there's nothing townish in MrZentor's filter, and too much useless/anti-town stuff to be overlooked. If he's town, he needs to change his playstyle completely. If he's Mafia, he needs to continue on his current path and convince us he can't be town.
Mr. Cheesecake
Who was he again? I only remembered him after rereading the thread a couple of times. He hasn't actually taken stances on anything that matters (not counting obvious stuff like "we should lynch the scummiest player"). What I'm most worried about is his complete lack of presence - he's basically casually lurking without being too obvious. I'm unwilling to judge him yet, but he isn't looking good so far.
jaybrundage
On January 04 2013 10:45 jaybrundage wrote:Well we can rule out Palmar as the smurf. In regards to your idea about the set up. It seems that if we have a parity cop. And then lynch the person the parity cop targeted night one. We would have confirmed towns and confirmed scum easily. As we have no millers or GF's. The only trick would be for the parity cop to push his lynch well with out getting outed. Unless you have some idea for claiming.
On January 04 2013 11:42 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 11:01 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Jay
Any other thoughts on what Rise and I have discussed over the first pages of the thread? Day length, hammer votes, or anything really. We should lynch someone when we feel confident they are mafia. We should always be aware of the hammer vote. People should be responsible for there hammer vote. We shouldn't rush a lynch cause we lost discussions to read people with. Policy Lynches rarely work so we should refrain from doing them. Pretty straight forward imo.
On January 04 2013 12:00 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 11:59 MrZentor wrote:
ShiaoPi, if you say that you agree with me about not creating arbitrary limits about the length of the day, I will think of you as confirmed town. Should be obvious why limit our selves? Only lynch when we are confident in the lynch. And have had good discussion over it.
This is his whole filter. It's certainly... lacking, for a lack of better word. First he speculates a bit about blue roles, then gives a list of vague of his policy opinions, then leaves. It's just all too vague and pointless for my liking. What's up with this lack of effort, interest, anything really?
Some players have been very active so far and it's definitely a good theme in this game. But some players (like these 3 above) have done practically nothing, even if they have posted. That should be some reason for concern to anyone.
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@ DP
And my case isn't one yet. I haven't even voted for you. But I think you outed yourself pretty nicely in this te ta te. If someone other than Hapa wants me to clarify something or ask me a question then feel free.
Bullshit. You've been calling me scum for several posts now, and now you back down? Yeah ok. Then what's all this crap then (below)?
All the while I am somehow illogical despite having really solid reasoning and you just ignoring that to serve your OMGUS agenda.
Well, that is cool with me HAPA. I don't have to convince you you are scum. I just have to convince the town. And that should be straightforward after this little party we have been having together.
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EBWOP: (Didn't finish the post)
@ DP
And my case isn't one yet. I haven't even voted for you. But I think you outed yourself pretty nicely in this te ta te. If someone other than Hapa wants me to clarify something or ask me a question then feel free.
Bullshit. You've been calling me scum for several posts now, and now you back down? Yeah ok. Then what's all this crap then (below)?
All the while I am somehow illogical despite having really solid reasoning and you just ignoring that to serve your OMGUS agenda.
Well, that is cool with me HAPA. I don't have to convince you you are scum. I just have to convince the town. And that should be straightforward after this little party we have been having together.
On January 05 2013 07:07 DarthPunk wrote:
I will be gone soon. If I stop posting you know why.
@everyone besides hapa. If you get outposted by scum as town you fail at this game. Just saying.
Regarding Lurkers:
Also about the lurker thing. I was critical of lurkers but believing that because I am critical of lurkers I can only go after lurkers is fallacious. Especially when I value knowing your alignment far more.
No see the problem is that you haven't even attempted to go after lurkers or even pressure lurkers. Not even one post.
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On January 05 2013 07:21 Hapahauli wrote:DarthPunk's Stance on LurkersShow nested quote +On January 05 2013 05:53 DarthPunk wrote:
well. I expected to wake up to a hell of a lot more posts than two.
Ugh. There is nothing really to go off yet. All this arguing over set-up only servers to obfuscate reads on things.
... Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 06:36 DarthPunk wrote:
...
The thing that is hurting this game the most right now is lurking. So why are you not saying anything about lurking? DP is apparently super-concerned with lurkers this game. In fact, he has a well-established history of pressuring lurkers in similar game situations. Witchcraft Mini Mafia had a very similar opening, where town was very inactive for most of Day 1. DarthPunk was very adamant about pursuing players who haven't posted. In his own words: Show nested quote +Who the fuck is saying anything about tunnelling? I clearly said pressure. I fucking pressured lurkers all of day one in witchcraft.
... He pressured lurkers all of Day 1 in witchcraft mini mafia (as town). He's done nothing to that end so far, despite his concern. Basically, his "concern" is a front. He's pretending to be concerned about lurkers, and offering much rhetoric to that end. When it comes down to it however, he doesn't give a shit about pressuring them. Instead, he goes after the most active player in the game.
As a side note, DarthPunk and I have played many games together. He's very intimately familiar with how I play town. Hilariously enough, everything he's attacking me for this game are signature traits of my town play. Pushing "weak" wagons on Day 1, OMGUS plays... these are all things that I do in every one of my town games. DarthPunk seems to have conveniently "forgot" about our game history for his own ends.
I suggest everyone read the context of those quotes as HAPA edited them out of context to suit his agenda.
Hapa stated that he was pushing terrible wagons in order to increase activity. I then said as quoted why don't you pressure lurkers instead as they are actively hurting the game.
Yes I am concerned about lurkers but that does not and never will prevent me from going after someone I view as scummier.
And yes I do know hapas play. and he is correct in saying that this is all hallmarks of his town play but scum try to EMULATE their town play. The key difference is that Town hapa is almost always CLEARLY town. and right now He is not clearly town but quite scummy. I am gone now. If someone wishes to talk I will be back in several hours.
GLHF.
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@ Xalatos
Welcome! Thoughts on DP appreciated!
Regarding your own points:
MrZ - He tends to do very "trolly" stuff as town and scum. His early-game in Witchcraft Mini is a good example, where he self-votes himself and just posts a couple of meaningless one-liners for most of Day 1 (as town). I'm not too worried about MrZ, as I think reading him is fairly easy. He's very clammy and afraid to post as scum. He's much more open and jokey as town.
JayBrundage - He's lynch-bait (see Hero Mini Mafia). We should definitely encourage him to post more, but he's a pretty easy mislynch (if he's town) because he tends to make sparse and wishy-washy posts.
Mr.CC - I think he's fairly similar to MrZ. I'm not very worried about reading him, because I feel he has a hard time replicating his "jokey" town-meta. His inactivity so far is a concern, but I'm not sure how much of that is due to RL business.
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EPT
